Wow I discovreed something

[RavensEye]

As I was working on my tarot deck I was deciding what elements went with what suits.
The ones that were stumping me is Fire and Air. I follow Fire with Swords, but I went through my decks and noticed the Rider deck for swordscourt cards had symbols for air, butterlfies , winged cupids etc, then you look at the backgrounds all outside in the air with clouds.

If anyone is interested I can post some of the cards I am talking about, but wow it was such an intersting time I learned alot this evening!!

[rain_fallen_tears]

I'm incredibly interested! I have rider deck somewhere...my first deck. But like an idiot I got it used at a garage sale...when I used them I got nothing but negative readings...later I found out whoever they belonged to before's energy was so seperate from mine, that our energies collided bringing out the worst possible readings....a little off the point(sorry :bigredblu )...back to the topic at hand yes! I'd love if you posted some of the card you are speaking of! :)

[Mithrea]

Swords are usually associated with air. Think not of the sword itself but what the cards in that suit deal with. Wands are normally associated with fire; cups with water; and pentacles with earth. Cups deal with emotions, which is a water issue, pentacles deals with the physical world, money, etc. so earth logically follows. Swords deal with intellectual-type issues, therefore they are air and wands deal with passion, creativity, etc.--therefore fire.

This is not to say that other people don't make other connections. In fact I know there is at least one thread here that deals with this already where people give their reasons for associating different elements with each suit.

Kudos to you for seeking the answer and finding it for yourself :)

[Xander67]

Holly brings up a good point.
although there are traditional corespondences that are "universal"
it is perfectly acceptable to use non traditional associations,
especially if it fits a given situation :)

there are many different Decks out there, and each of them have their own method of use for finding what you seek, ............ be it an answer, guidence, personal transformation.. or discovering the source of your very existance and your divine purpose, its all "in the cards" :)

[AuroraSilvermist]

Yup, swords for air; wands for fire. That's how I've learned, too. All the decks I have use the same associations, but I bet there are probably some that reverse the symbolism. I know the correspondences vary within different pagan traditions, too.

And I agree, it IS cool that you worked out the problem yourself. Now, what will you do about it? Are you planning to seek out a deck with correspondences that fit with yours, or just bend things around a bit so you can read your Rider deck?

[Aidron]

I personally associate swords with fire, and wands with air, and while Xander is right in that there is a universal acceptance, the fire-wands air-swords association is relatively new, thanks to Golden Dawn.

It's extremely difficult to find a deck that utilizes the associations I do, so my advice is to create your own elemental associations that feel comfortable for you. If the Rider-Waite no longer feels right, search for one that uses the correspondences like I do (if that is how you decided to align them), but it will take quite a bit of work.

[RavensEye]

"Are you planning to seek out a deck with correspondences that fit with yours, or just bend things around a bit so you can read your Rider deck?"

Actuallay no I can read my Rider deck just fine, but I am devleoping my oiwn tarot decks and I am trying to decide which correspondeces to use that is all, I had my Rider deck for 10 years and now of all times these symbol have become noticable.

[Aidron]

"Are you planning to seek out a deck with correspondences that fit with yours, or just bend things around a bit so you can read your Rider deck?"

Actuallay no I can read my Rider deck just fine, but I am devleoping my oiwn tarot decks and I am trying to decide which correspondeces to use that is all, I had my Rider deck for 10 years and now of all times these symbol have become noticable.


That's the great thing about life, you think you know something and then "WHAM!" you get hit upside the head with the proverbial broom to let you know how little you actually did now. ;)

P.S. I keep thinking your posts are mine, as our names are pretty similar. :lol:

[RavensEye]

Well that is cool another Raven!! Nice to meet you !! And yes it felt like iw as hit in the head with something to it was a wierd feeling.

And as for the names that is funny you have the same space and letters capitalized...hmmm fate mayeb???herhehe

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

I associate fire/wands and swords/air on the whole. I do have a deck running around here somewhere that has the opposite association, and that deck really keeps me on my tows when I'm reading! I like to mix things up every once in a while and use them! ;)

[LisaT4P]

there are 2 decks I can think of right off hand that have the Wands-Air and Swords-Fire theme: Nigel Jackson and Tarot 2000: Pagan. Both can be seen at aeclectic or at www.tarotgarden.com (http://www.tarotgarden.com)

Lisa :)

[Ara_Anonyma]

The Art Nouveau deck also has the swords/fire and wands/air association.

Where is this mysterious thread discussing the elements-suits thing? The search engine will not produce it for me. :( Anyone who posted on it recall the title?

[RainCeleste]

There's also the Celtic Dragon (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/celtic-dragon/), the Shapeshifter (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/shapeshifter/), Legend the Arthurian Tarot (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/legend-arthurian/) and Renaissance Tarot by Brian Williams (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/renaissance/). I don't have any other decks by Brian Williams so I don't know if they're wands=air, swords=fire. The Legend deck and Nigel Jackson tarot are 2 of my favorite decks but I don't have a problem reading with them even though I usually associate wands=fire and swords=air. The fire/air element depiction isn't apparent in the Legend deck which could be a good thing if some find that hindering. Hope that helped! :)

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

The Elements:

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=1806

Happy Reading!

~D

[RavensEye]

Ara_Anonyma which Art Nouveau deck are you referin to? I have one deck and found out there is another one that is totally different.

As for the Celtic Dragon Deck that is the only deck I have that has the fire -swords air-wands correspondence.

Dagda Moon~Lily thansk for the link.

[Ara_Anonyma]

Oops, I should have provided the link like RainCeleste did. Here it is: Art Nouveau (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/art-nouveau-tarot/), by Matt Myers. The minor arcana cards look like stained-glass windows, and there is a story running through each suit. The Aces show the elemental link for each suit. What's really weird is that the cards' meanings are supposed to be traditional despite the alternative suit associations -- the Little White Book keywords are identical to the ones in my Universale Waite LWB!

Thanks a bunch, Dagna Moon~Lily. :)

[RavensEye]

Ah cool that is the same Art Nouveau deck I have. I cannot use mine at present though because that seems to be Sakuras favorite deck to look at and as a redult I am missing about half the deck.

[Aidron]

Ah cool that is the same Art Nouveau deck I have. I cannot use mine at present though because that seems to be Sakuras favorite deck to look at and as a redult I am missing about half the deck.


If this is the deck I'm thinking of, I almost bought it and if it hadn't been for locating the Celtic Dragon Tarot, I would have.

A bit off topic, but what are your thoughts on the relationship portrayed throughout the minor arcana, granted, if this is the same deck I'm thinking of, and it may not be. :hrmm: