Witchcraft a religion?

[Andromeda]

I've been practicing the craft for over 2 1/2 years. So I'm still very new to everything. I've read many things, some say witchcraft is a religion while others say witchcraft is not a religion.

I personally believe that it is a religion.
And I consider myself an Eclectic Witch.

But I was just wondering what everyone else thought.

Witchcraft - Religion or not??

[Myst]

Why do you think it is? Why do you think its not?

Some suggest it's not at all (Dr Laura), some suggest its a practice that you integrate with a religion (ie. Wicca, Catholicism, etc.), others think it's a religion all by itself. Why do you think the way you do?

Personally I think of it is a Craft that can be integrated with a religion, but not a religion in and of itself. A few months ago if you asked I'd have a different answer.

The most important thing is to have your own reason why and to respect that others think differently (not directed at you, just in general I think people should remember that) :)

[Andromeda]

RELIGION - 1. belief in or worship of God or Gods. 2. A particular system of religious beliefs or worship

That is the basic definition of religion. (Gage Canadian Dictionary)

1. I believe in the god/dess 2. I have a particular system of religious beliefs, but I don't follow a particular path, I pick things up here and there that are good for me.

Witchcraft has become a way of life for me, just like Christianity has become a way of life for so many people and just like Wicca or Paganism has become a way of life for many of you.

Witchcraft can be apart of another religion (eg. Wicca) but I also believe its a religion all by itself.

[Myst]

Ok, interesting answer. That makes perfect sense for you...

but if you look at a different dictionary....

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition)

I'm not into the the "governor of the universe" and much less the "system grounded in such belief and worship". I take order to mean "established system of social organization" of which there is none in Witchcraft (everyone does it their own way). Our beliefs and teachings aren't based on those of a spiritual leader (tho Wicca's are based on a few spiritual leaders). I wouldn't say I go with 4 either, being as I just live and take it as it comes - it's more innate then devotion, it's just life.

and

religion n 1: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality" [syn: faith, religious belief] 2: institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" [syn: faith] (Wordnet 1.6, Princeton University)

1 is sometimes present in Witchcraft, but not necessarily (I think of them in terms of natural powers, not supernatural, and that no one's destiny is controlled). For 2, some Witches don't work with a God or Goddess or divine power either, just the energy of life that connects us all.

So is your belief based on one dictionary definition...?

(btw I'm just playing devil's advocate, making people think, I'm not suggesting you were wrong because you know you're not!)

[MistOfTheSea86]

I think that traditional Witchcraft and Wicca are seperate, and if you think a religion to believe in a God or Goddess or Gods. Then it is not one. Traditional Witchcraftians:D:):D(Or something slong those lines, I was thinking of being creative!:D) Believe more in deities than they do in gods, I do not think that they worship a god or goddess, but they do celebrate dieties. I think what you need to do is classify the two and see which one best suits you. ;)

[Andromeda]

No. My belief isn't based on that single dictionary definition. I just used to it help prove my point.

Witchcraft has become a big part of my life, and I hold certain, beliefs, practices and values even though I don't base them on the teachings of one spritual leader. So if it isn't a religion what is it??

[Myst]

A path? A way of living? Magick mixed with some other religion? Who knows, depends on the person.. My dictionary definitions disproved the point.. so what is there beyond definitions?

[Andromeda]

Your right, it does depend on a person, and it depends on the definition you read.

Religion - A system of beliefs, rites and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power ;belief pursued with devotion.
(Webster's dictionary 1991)

Call it a way of life, or whatever you want. I'll still believe witchcraft portrays as a religion.

[Amethyst Rose]

In my opinion, witchcraft is a practice outside of religion. The definitions that I've established over my 5 years of practice is this:

Magick: the practice of recognizing and manipulating the energies of the universe to create a desired outcome.

Witchcraft: Using magick.

Witch: One who uses magick on a regular basis, and incorporates it's practices into their lifestyle.

A witch can be of any religion -- wiccan/pagan is the most popular. But a witch can also be Christian, Jewish, Satanic, etc.

Therefore, witchcraft exists outside of the person's religion.

According to my definitions, and judging by your description of yourself, I would call you a pagan Witch. Pagan, because you don't follow any one path, and Witch because you incorporate witchcraft into your life and beliefs.

That's just how I see it. :D

[Andromeda]

Guess I'm really alone one this one *L* well live and learn.

Blessings,
Andromeda
(aim - Andromeda172)

[Myst]

I like your definitions, Amethyst... but I'm not sure about your def for Witchcraft (ie. using magick). Magick is present in everyday life and some use it without intending to (ie. when they get mad and send negative energy without doing it on purpose and the other person gets sick)... also some Witchcraft practitioners don't use magick in an obvious way - some just dig in their garden, grow herbs, love nature, and so on. So the ceremony and ritual is usually Wiccan or Pagan..... I know you probably didn't mean that part anyway, just clarifying it a bit I hope...?

[Amethyst Rose]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Magick is present in everyday life and some use it without intending to (ie. when they get mad and send negative energy without doing it on purpose and the other person gets sick)...

Yes, but notice that I said magick is recognizing the energies of the universe and using them to achieve a desired outcome. This implies the knowledge of energies and how magick works and an intent.... for it to truely be magick.


also some Witchcraft practitioners don't use magick in an obvious way - some just dig in their garden, grow herbs, love nature, and so on. So the ceremony and ritual is usually Wiccan or Pagan

Yes that's true.... but even then they are aware of the energies of the universe, and they have an intent beyond their actions. It may not be obvious, but it's still there.
I personally don't use ceremony or ritual... I'm one of those that isn't obvious, but it's still magick.

IMO of course.

[bloodstone20]

I think it is a religion. Magick can be multi-faith. but Witchraft is a branch on the Pagan tree. Its Wicca is based a fairly new British faith, and Witchcraft is Wicca, Helenic WitchCraft, Dianic WitchCraft and other faiths similer.

[MistOfTheSea86]

From what I have read other people write. Wicca does = witchcaft. However, the two can be entirely different. It just depends on what view you are looking at it from. if it from the traditional stand point then it is not Wicca. If it is from a Wiccan standpoint to do with magick then you are right. WHich view are you looking at it from.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Amethyst Rose
Yes, but notice that I said magick is recognizing the energies of the universe and using them to achieve a desired outcome. This implies the knowledge of energies and how magick works and an intent.... for it to truely be magick.


So if someone thinks nasty thoughts about Joe and then Joe gets sick that's not magick? If someone gets pregnant accidentally and gives birth to new life that's not magick because they didn't intend to do it? If you see a faerie out of the corner of your eye when you weren't looking that's not magick? I think you could say "practicing magick" is the art of manipulating energy for a specific purpose, but magick tends to happen on its own without intent sometimes :)

[Myst]

The thread wasn't meant for a question of whether Wicca = Witchcraft actually, but I suppose it does come up when you discuss whether one's a religion without the other.

I think, however, it's generally accepted that Wicca's only existed for a few decades and Witchcraft existed long before that, even if by other names (then again, we weren't there, so who can be sure?). And there are very many Catholic, Jewish, Satanic, and Buddhist Witches as well as Wiccan Witches and all the others. So in effect Witchcraft can exist without Wicca and thus they aren't one and the same technically but a lot of people believe they are.

Which is why some suggest Witchcraft isn't a religion at all, just a framework or path you integrate with a religion - whether a set one or one you creat yourself... anyways that's where I'm coming from :)

[Shy Hawk]

Right, I'm just going to restate it for emphasis (but I think I spelled it wrong...lol).
Not all witches are wiccans.
Not all wiccans are witches.

Witchery (lol) can be done within any religious frame, which is why I think it can't be a religion on it's own. My grandmother is a Catholic witch (or if you prefer, somewhat Santerian). My father is a Muslim witch. Anyone can be a witch...and many people are.
Not all Pagans are witches....not all Pagans are wiccans either. (sigh) So let me reiterate....
A witch is anyone who practices magick....for lack of a better definition, and keeping it simple. Anyone can be a witch...and of any religion. Therefore, witch in itself...not a religion.

If I worded it wrong..sorry

[bloodstone20]

that they worked magick?Normally they are called Pow-wows in the Hex Belt. All that use Magick aren't witches. They may identify themselves as such, but in my opinion aren't.

[Rusalka]

From what I have always seen and learned, one of the ideals of non-mainstream spiritual practice (e.g., Wicca and other pagan faiths), is freedom of choice. My coven elders have always maintained that people can manipulate and direct energies to achieve a desired outcome regardless of religious affiliation. Christians have prayer healing, for example, Jews have the golem, and Wiccans cast spells. It is my opinion that it helps one's focus and ethical sense to be rooted in a particular faith, but it most certainly is not a requirement...If people agree that "witchcraft" is the word to define "manipulation of energies for a purpose", then I agree that it is separate from Wicca, Christianity, or whatever. My acupuncturist certainly practices magick, and I have no idea what religion she is!

[Wyrdsister]

MM, all! I'm just throwing my 2 cents in. NOTE: my 2 cents only apply to me! :)

I see Wicca as a religion. I believe you can be Wiccan without being a witch. I'm separating out the practice of magick (for my purposes, "witchcraft") from the worshipping and revering of the Goddesses and Gods (for my purposes, "Wicca").

I also believe you can be both Wiccan and a witch, as well as a Jew and a witch, a Pagan and a witch, an athiest and a witch, etc. While some of these combinations may not be common, in my little world the theory works. :)

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to ramble on a spell! :D

BB,

Wyrdsister

[Skye]

well, in my clan, magic is a way of life, we never incorporated the local christian faith, however, we never worshipped any particular goddess or god.
In my circumstance, magic has been seperate from any type of organized worship.

I know, doesn't answer the question....just my opinion

[MistOfTheSea86]

So do you follow Traditional Witchcraft Skye?

[Skye]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86
So do you follow Traditional Witchcraft Skye?

Well, Mist.
I suppose that is what many call it, however, I am not sure I like to label myself as such.

But I do know I am much less religiously inclined then many people here, that is not a bad thing, but...
as I said, to me magic(manipulation, will, and distortion) are very different then following any type of organized belief.

[Draeconin]

Witchcraft is "the craft of the witch" and there are witches (magic practitioners) in almost every religion, including Christianity. As such, it cannot be, in and of itself, a religion. The practice of some witches calling their *religion* Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca. Makes for some very confusing conversations at times when people are using the word differently.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Draeconin
Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca.

There are those who believe that Witchcraft has existed for centuries and centuries. It predates Christianity and even Roman myth in some locations. This is no surprise, I can imagine ancient caveman chanting "I can do it" while trying to push a boulder, thereby raising energy for the intent of moving that boulder, and thus themselves performing magick.

Wicca was revealed in the past few decades by the likes of Gardner, Alexander, Crowley and Valiente... While there is some basis on ancient Witchcraft in Wicca, Wicca as a religion has only existed for those decades.

[Shy Hawk]

I was going to post the same thing...but I knew someone else would first, so I refrained from posting this time. ;)

[Myst]

I know, I was reading your mind MWA HA HA

hehe lotsa love Shy Hawk :heartthro

[Shy Hawk]

Awwwww, I wuv you too!!!!!!!!!!!:D:heartthro :heartthro :heartthro

[MistOfTheSea86]

I did not think that Traditional Witchcraft was any huge religion, just a way of life.

[Sarata]

How about some fun with the etymology of the word "Witch"? it derives from the words "Wicca" (Wee-cha) and "Wicce" (Wee-chay) Wicca is masculine, Wicce Feminine, making it really rather funny when some women claim Wicca is a women's religion. Those were the Anglo Saxons using those terms. They used them to describe the Shamanic folk of the Celts. So if you wanted to be a purist, a Witch is a Celtic Shaman.
However, we all know words change meaning with time, and what a word once meant, it no longer does. Trying to define "Witch" is like trying to give a precise definition of "God" I'd say that for some folks Witchcraft is a religion, (Most, really) but for some it is not. I consider it a religion. If there is no religious element in it, then it is Magery, Sorcery, what have you. That's my viewpoint on it.

[Myst]

It is a way of life, just happens to be one that's existed in some form for centuries... make sense now??

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by WillowRaven


There are those who believe that Witchcraft has existed for centuries and centuries. It predates Christianity and even Roman myth in some locations. This is no surprise, I can imagine ancient caveman chanting "I can do it" while trying to push a boulder, thereby raising energy for the intent of moving that boulder, and thus themselves performing magick.

Wicca was revealed in the past few decades by the likes of Gardner, Alexander, Crowley and Valiente... While there is some basis on ancient Witchcraft in Wicca, Wicca as a religion has only existed for those decades.

You misquoted me. I said "as the name of their religion". Before that most practitioners who used it with pre-Christian religious ideology didn't have a name for it - it was merely "our way" or some such similarly vague description. Even today, those calling their religion "Witchcraft" usually have widely disparate beliefs and practices. (Much as Wicca has become. :) )

Yes, witchcraft (small 'w') has probably existed in one form or another since mankind (or prior ancestors) started wondering about the world around them and trying to exert some kind of control over it. However, the word "witch" isn't that old - maybe 600-700 years or thereabouts, so it's highly doubtful that they called it that. :)

Yes, Wicca *was* created by Gardner and Doreen Valiente. There are articles on my site about it. One by a researcher, one by a person who witnessed most of it. Most of Wicca's material came from the OTO. Very little came from old folk traditions. The other people came afterward, promoting their own versions.

BTW, there's also an article about the etymology of the words 'wicca' and 'witch' on my site. It gives all the possibilities, so take your pick. :)

http://draeconin.tripod.com/htm/articles.htm

[Myst]

Originally posted by Draeconin
Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca.

Actually you said "Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca", and nothing about "the name of their religion". I pulled the quote from your post exactly without modifications.

And this thread is not about the history of the words Wicca, Witch, Pagan, or anything else. That subject has already been beaten to death here at MysticWicks on other threads. The subject is "is Witchcraft a religion?". I hope we can now get back on topic :)

[Spirahl]

on your definition of religion. I take it to mean a faith that follows a certain structure and doctrine. So I wouldn't say that witchcraft is a religion. To me, witchcraft is a practice, or as someone already stated, a way of life. "The Old Ways". ( OK so I admit to watching "The Excaliber" about 99 times. Queen Mab and that creepy/funny voice...LOL). But my personal practice of witchcraft is so entwined wtih my spirituality, I'm a person of deep faith, that it becomes quite confusing. One advantage I can see in changing my definition, and therefore including witchcraft as religion, is that certain legal rights and protections then apply.

[Semele]

Ok, Not to be totally obnoxious here...(you know its bad when the post starts like that!!!) I do see the point of this thread and i find it very interesting to read everyones veiws, but i have one question....Are any of us really that hung up on titles? Hopefully this is just an interesting conversation, but I sense that some of us actually live for times like this when we can defend who/what we are.

I personally get very tired of the labels we give each other in life...Christian, Witch, Black, Fat, Hairy....can't we ever just be....us? Why do we feel the need to put a name to everything? (not excluding myself here either) Do we think that if we give something a name we will have more control or understanding of it? Just pondering....don't panic...self-exploration as well.

As far as religion...I absolutely hate that word. That is a label I would love to see absolved. Yes I am proud of who I am...but I think only a small part of that is pagan. The rest is just me. This is something I am just coming to understand about myself. For instance the whole military recognizing Wicca as a religion...I have always had mixed feelings about that. In some ways I am thinking Yeah way to go!!! Yet another part of me thinks why do we need the government to tell us our religion is real? Is there approval or lack there of going to change our faith and happiness, or make it less real?? Not any more than we can stop children from praying in school. The fact is noone can take our spiritual peace of mind away from us by denying our right to be awarded an official title. I just tend to think that folks get so caught up in the "religion" title and doctrine and rules and such that they lose sight of the reason they formed this religion in the first place. Kind of like my views on how some, (definately not all) Christians hold the Bible as some sort of item of worship itself. It is only a book. Sure the message may be very important to you, but holding it so high up is a form of idol worship in my opinion. That goes for the torah and all other sacred writings as well...in my opinion.

Sorry if I rambled and strayed off topic...just throwing some thoughts out there.

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by WillowRaven


Actually you said "Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca", and nothing about "the name of their religion". I pulled the quote from your post exactly without modifications.

I hope we can now get back on topic :)


I will NOT be misquoted, even by omission!!! The full sentence was: "The practice of some witches calling their *religion* Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca."

I don't appreciate this game.

[Rusalka]

Isn't all religion a way of life? To clarify. if someone adheres to a particular faith, and truly believes, that faith colours everything she or he does. The word "religion" is open to broad interpretation as well.

Without the risk of misquoting anyone, may I respond to the point of governemnt recognition of Pagan life choices (if "religion" is too stong a term for some): we all live in the same society, and, although we often are at variance with the norms and laws, we recognize that we are part of a whole. We all have jobs, pay taxes, etc. The fact the "government" and the military recognize Wicca is, in fact, irrelevant to those for whom Wicca is a way of life. But for those in government jobs or the military, it sure makes life easier to have less of a hassle. So I maintain that government approval is a matter of convenience, certainly not necessity...but isn't that the case for most things?

an ye harm none...
Rusalka

[Skye]

Originally posted by Draeconin


I will NOT be misquoted, even by omission!!! The full sentence was: "The practice of some witches calling their *religion* Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca."

I don't appreciate this game.


Lighten up:)

[Faery-Wings]

The fact is noone can take our spiritual peace of mind away from us by denying our right to be awarded an official title. I just tend to think that folks get so caught up in the "religion" title and doctrine and rules and such that they lose sight of the reason they formed this religion in the first place.

Semele!! Woo hoo!

*clapping hands*

Sometimes I feel a bit "lost" as I am learning and exploring myself and my new path. I don't have a label or a name or anything to claim as my "own." What you said is wonderful! I know Mol has said it to ( in less words he he he:p ) but you are both so right (at least to me!) .

At times, I want my Path to be considered a religion, even if it is a Religion of One. But that is externally based- I want others to know that this isn't just "hocus pocus" to me, but an deep spiritual relationship I am building between me and the Goddess. But as you said, that isn't really necessary, or I guess, beneficial to me.

Does that makes sense or am I babbling again?

Chris

[Wyrdsister]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Actually you said "Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca", and nothing about "the name of their religion". I pulled the quote from your post exactly without modifications. Okay, picky-wiccan warning: You did actually misquoted Draeconin. You forgot some text that preceded what you pulled out of their post - I think you must have been distracted by the asterisks ** :)

I know this may sound picky to you, but I guess misquotes and things taken out of context are little pet peeves of mine! 8O I figure that it's difficult enough to have a good civil discussion when we all know exactly what each other is saying let alone when views get misconstrued (sp?) !! :D :D

BB, all,

Wyrdsister

[Wyrdsister]

Originally posted by Skye
Lighten up:) Hmmm, don't like being wrong much? ;) :bigredgri

Wyrdsister

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
that they worked magick?Normally they are called Pow-wows in the Hex Belt. All that use Magick aren't witches. They may identify themselves as such, but in my opinion aren't.

Well, there's a differnce between "doing magic" (or working magic") and casting spells.

Mari
Doesn't cast spells.

[Semele]

Originally posted by Draeconin


I will NOT be misquoted, even by omission!!! The full sentence was: "The practice of some witches calling their *religion* Witchcraft is about the same age as Wicca."

I don't appreciate this game.


Did you possibly edit your original post? i know it doesn't show up as such but I believe I read thesame way as Willow the first time as well.

In any case it is not a gmae friend, just a friendly discussion. Noone intentionally misquoted you. Now we can see your original intent so it is understood better. Don't get too defensive. We are all friends here remember?? ;)

[mol]

:rolleyes:

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by Semele


Did you possibly edit your original post? i know it doesn't show up as such but I believe I read thesame way as Willow the first time as well.
:) No, I don't play those games. :) The watch-word of my religion is Wessel, which stands for Wisdom, Self-honesty, Self-responsibility and Love. I don't always (obviously) achieve the first or last, but I adhere as strictly as possible to the other two. :)



In any case it is not a gmae friend, just a friendly discussion. Noone intentionally misquoted you. Now we can see your original intent so it is understood better. Don't get too defensive. We are all friends here remember?? ;)

I'm new to these forums, so still ignorant of your social structure here as well as many of the conventions you have built over time. Still, I know that some people get a perverse joy out of "tweaking" those that they perceive to be "stuffed shirts". My writing style often leads others to that belief about me. As I become more comfortable here (IF I become comfortable, here) you will see other facets. In the meantime, your patience with me is appreciated. :)

[Semele]

In the meantime, your patience with me is appreciated. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Patience is one of the things I pride myself on. I didn't mean to imply that you would deliberately edit and then try to pass it as the original post. I just thought that perhaps you had edited as several of us mis-read the original post. I think often when we are discussing something we hold dear to us we get to reading too quickly and miss a lot of the content and the intention of the poster. Just another little hassle of communicating this way.

I sincerly hope you do become comfortable here. We are all here to learn and share. We all have our own ideas and opinions but that is what makes it so great. We can share openly without the fear of someone trying to save us or convert us to their way of thinking. Enjoy the community, as it belongs to you as much as anyone!

[Myst]

Originally posted by Semele
I personally get very tired of the labels we give each other in life...Christian, Witch, Black, Fat, Hairy....can't we ever just be....us? Why do we feel the need to put a name to everything? (not excluding myself here either)

That's a really great point. It's human nature to try and label and classify everything, but we must remember that giving something a certain name doesn't make it what it is.

BTW Mari - difference between working magick and casting spells.... what is the difference in your opinion? I've just never heard of the distinction before and am interested to hear about it ;)

[Skye]

Originally posted by Wyrdsister
Hmmm, don't like being wrong much? ;) :bigredgri

Wyrdsister


Who me, Wrong:D :D :D

only most of the time:o

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
BTW Mari - difference between working magick and casting spells.... what is the difference in your opinion? I've just never heard of the distinction before and am interested to hear about it ;)

I've discussed it voer and over in the magic and ritual forum. Just dig up a thread and look for me. One noteable is probably one of the circle-casting threads, or one of the magic class threads.

[Nyxee]

{Disclaimer}As always, IMHO and generalised a bit.{/Disclaimer}

Ceremonial Magicians work magic. They don't cast spells. I guess it's the old 'high vs low magic' argument again.

To me witchcraft is exactly that - the craft of the witch. It is a life path based on accepting the spiritual energy (magic) of the world around us, and using that in everyday life.

I don't see it as a religion because that implies too much organisation :D

But then, I don't necessarily see paganism as a religion either ;) so YMMV. For the record I am both a pagan and a Witch. With the history of witchery in my bloodline, it is only the paganism that surprised my family. They thought I was a devout atheist :D

I'm not sure of the importance of titles and labels... Perhaps we are just hangin' ourselves out to dry here. But it's fun anyways :uzi:

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Nyxee
Ceremonial Magicians work magic. They don't cast spells. I guess it's the old 'high vs low magic' argument again.

If you were answering this for me because of my post above, please reconsider. I'm not a ceremonial magician. Nowhere near. The question was directed at me, and I very well can answer for myself, thank you.

And if I misunderstand, I apologize. It's late, and I've had a very long day.

[Danustouch]

YOWCH...

anyone else think that this thread is getting PAINFUL?

I say we all settle it by a series of arm wrestling matches.

Anyone else?

[Happydog]

Wicca is legally regarded as a religion. This was a hard-won right, and there are still people trying to revoke that right. So, legally speaking, yes, Wicca is a religion.

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by Danustouch
I say we all settle it by a series of arm wrestling matches.

Anyone else?

I'm down with that... just take it easy on me, I am delicate.

~ew

[Danustouch]

heheheh. I'll try!

[bloodstone20]

Originally posted by Happydog
Wicca is legally regarded as a religion. This was a hard-won right, and there are still people trying to revoke that right. So, legally speaking, yes, Wicca is a religion.
And in the Army Chaplins Hand Book, Witchcraft is 2. They both are legal religions. And that means Wicca as a whole, not just ceretain trads. And no, that wasn't a trad bash, but a fact. I get e-mail all the time from people from a ceretain trad of Wicca saying i am wrong in my practices. It is a simple fact tht this would happen, as it did in Christianity. I am just sad to see its happening so soon.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Happydog
Wicca is legally regarded as a religion. This was a hard-won right, and there are still people trying to revoke that right. So, legally speaking, yes, Wicca is a religion.

Yes WICCA is a religion, but the question was is WITCHCRAFT a religion - some people think Wicca and Witchcraft are two different things :)

[Amethyst Rose]

Originally posted by WillowRaven


So if someone thinks nasty thoughts about Joe and then Joe gets sick that's not magick? If someone gets pregnant accidentally and gives birth to new life that's not magick because they didn't intend to do it? If you see a faerie out of the corner of your eye when you weren't looking that's not magick? I think you could say "practicing magick" is the art of manipulating energy for a specific purpose, but magick tends to happen on its own without intent sometimes :)



Hmmmm..... okay. I'll give you that one. However, in my original post I was talking about practicing magick. I guess I assumed that others would see it that way too. You know what they say about people who assume...... ;)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Yes WICCA is a religion, but the question was is WITCHCRAFT a religion - some people think Wicca and Witchcraft are two different things :)

Witchcraft and Wicca are two different things. Witchcraft was around waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Wicca.

[Shy Hawk]

I HAVE to agree with Mairwen.....They are two different things, by far.
At least, that's what I have come to know.

[Semele]

Originally posted by eaglewolf


I'm down with that... just take it easy on me, I am delicate.

~ew

Oh come on now...you don't really want anyone to take it easy on ya!!!

btw Mol is pretty good at arm wrestling!! He beats our son all the time....hands down!!! My hero!!!