Planes?

[Scarlet]

.

[Heathen Dawn]

Planes or realms, whichever you choose to call them. There’s one physical realm and many spiritual or astral realms. The astral realms are not located above or below as ancients thought, but in parallel dimensions, side by side with us. It’s a matter of awareness, not location. Normally we aren’t aware of our astral surroundings, because of the veil of matter. Wicca has techniques for lifting up the veil so that we may see. Death of the physical body is birth unto a new life in the astral realms. The astral life is a life of eternal progression towards the Creator; life in an astral body instead of a physical one, with an awareness of astral things, and with communication by telepathy rather than language.

[Morr]

Planes or realms, whichever you choose to call them. There?s one physical realm and many spiritual or astral realms. The astral realms are not located above or below as ancients thought, but in parallel dimensions, side by side with us. It?s a matter of awareness, not location. Normally we aren?t aware of our astral surroundings, because of the veil of matter. Wicca has techniques for lifting up the veil so that we may see. Death of the physical body is birth unto a new life in the astral realms. The astral life is a life of eternal progression towards the Creator; life in an astral body instead of a physical one, with an awareness of astral things, and with communication by telepathy rather than language.


Spirituality in general has techniques to learn to communicate with the astral world, take part of it and be more aware of it - Not just Wicca. Also, you just stated your own opinion about death - which has nothing to do with this question because some people wont agree with you that death is a rebirth to the ASTRAL plane. So be careful with what you choose to say.
Also, I dont agree with you that "the astral life is a life of eternal progression towards the creator". Where is that philosophy from? Certainly not Wicca. The Astral plane is simply another plane where different beings live. Beings that dont have a physical body like we do.

The questions about the realms in general is very complicated - and every spiritual path has its own answer & thought about it. I hold a view similar to kabbalah - 4 Major realms:
1) Our Physical world.
2) An Astral World where creatures more intellegent then us exist, such as the Fae, Dragons, Spirits, Ghosts, Elemets, etc. I also believe that the acient magickal lands such as land of Avalon can be placed in this specific realm. I believe that when we astral travel - this is the plane we can get to.
3) A higher Astral world where highly intellegent beings who are closest to Divine live - Angels & Archangels, Guairdian Spirits, etc.
4) Divine Realm where only Divine lives.
I think that The higher realms can definitly reach down to us - guide us, teach us & inspire us. But I think in order to reach the higher realms from the physical world - one must be ver aware, open, spiritual & experienced. I dont think that the Divine is seperate from us - I believe these realms are definitly connected to one another - "As Above So Below", and that we are all part of a big great circle. But I also think that at some point theres a difference since these are different forms of worlds and our minds & understanding of things are limited compared to those who live in the higher realms.
But I do believe that one can reincarnate into beings in any one of the realms, not always "advance" up.

[Ben Gruagach]

There are all sorts of theories about what non-physical realms might exist. Some theories are very elaborate and have a hierarchy all worked out. Others are much simpler.

For example, some people who work with the Qabala believe that each sphere or sephiroth is a separate realm or plane. Malkuth, the lowest one on the tree of life diagram, represents the physical realm. You travel through the various spheres to go up the tree diagram until you reach the top one, Kether, which represents the purest and highest realm of the Divine. Some postulate an "upside down" or mirror version of the tree of life diagram that descends into realms that move farther and farther away from the divine than our physical realm. They sound a lot like hell realms.

In shamanic theories things are often a bit more simplified into an upper realm, a middle realm (or "middle-earth") which is the physicial realm where we are, and a lower world. All three realms are worth exploring and none of these are necessarily considered to be inherently good or evil. So the lower world is not about going to hell if you think of hell as a bad place.

It is common though for the different realms to be interpenetrating -- they all exist in the same space more or less, at least in some overlap. They're often not really thought to be really separate but different parts of what make up the whole.

Here are some links to documents at the excellent website http://www.sacred-texts.org that discuss different theories about planes of existence.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/sas/sas15.htm is a tantric theory.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/pac/lww/lww2.htm is a Pacific Islander theory that talks about eleven planes.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/the/ links to standard Theosophical texts, which include theories of planes of existence.

I'm sure there's lots more out there too. Just keep in mind that there are many different theories with lots of different details and explanations.

[Heathen Dawn]

Spirituality in general has techniques to learn to communicate with the astral world, take part of it and be more aware of it - Not just Wicca.

Yes, of course. That goes without saying.

Also, you just stated your own opinion about death

Nope, it’s not my opinion. It’s teachings from human spirits who actually live in the astral realms (sources (http://www.geocities.com/spirit_teachings/)).

which has nothing to do with this question because some people wont agree with you that death is a rebirth to the ASTRAL plane.

My answer has everything to do with the OP question. She asked about the physical and spiritual planes and the differences between them, and I answered that.

So be careful with what you choose to say.

“Be careful”??? I don’t like this tone.

Also, I dont agree with you that "the astral life is a life of eternal progression towards the creator".

I didn’t ask anyone to agree with me.

Where is that philosophy from? Certainly not Wicca.

No, it’s from Spiritualism. My beliefs about the afterlife come from Spiritualism. I definitely don’t believe creatures are reincarnated forever or have a Wheel of Reincarnation (samsara) to escape from.

The Astral plane is simply another plane where different beings live. Beings that dont have a physical body like we do.

Human beings after their bodily death too.

[Crystal_Raye]

Aren't there 11 planes?

[Morr]

Aren't there 11 planes?


depends which philosophy/spiritual path youre talking about.

[Ben Gruagach]

Nope, it’s not my opinion. It’s teachings from human spirits who actually live in the astral realms (sources (http://www.geocities.com/spirit_teachings/)).

Since Paganism isn't a single religion we have to be careful to make it clear when we present a particular idea that we're not trying to suggest the idea is some sort of universally accepted one (unless it really is, of course... but I'm not sure I can identify a universal that applies to all Pagans.) Sure, some people do accept the particular theory provided in that link, including the claim that this info comes directly from people in those other realms. The problem is there are other different theories that also claim to come directly from "the other side," so it does come down to each of us deciding for ourselves which of these we think makes most sense, or perhaps making up a theory of our own.

Even within Wicca we don't have a theory that is universally accepted. They say if you ask thirteen Wiccans a question you'll get twenty different, often conflicting answers from them. Take your pick which one makes most sense to you!

[Faeawyn]

I found this lecture to be an interesting read.

The State of Consciousness after the Death Transistion
A Channeled Lecture by Kathumi
Presented November 8, 1985

Tonight we would like to focus upon the state of consciousness after the death transition has been made. Suffice it to say that there are seven levels of consciousness beyond the physical one. However, only the lower three are of importance to the physical plane consciousness and to the evolving entity. We should like to deal with those three levels in appropriate detail.
Each level has sub-levels associated with it. Of course the level closest to the physical plane involves that comprised of the Astral. This as you know is the emotions. The closer to the physical plane the more intense the emotion. As one travels through the Astral level the intensity of the emotion lessens. However this level of emotionalism is the first that is encountered and it is a stopping point for many evolving entities. As we have mentioned in the past the beliefs in life [physical plane beliefs] determine the environment that the entity will encounter upon the death transition. These beliefs can be limiting, repressive, disruptive. The whole purpose of this monograph is to allow people the opportunity to neutralize beliefs that will impede their evolutionary progress.
The Astral plane has a degree of chaos associated with it. The chaos is directly proportional to the emotionalism. The lower Astral is that area where nightmares; pure raw emotionalism collects. It is the barrier between the physical plane and breaking through to the higher levels of the Astral. Fortunately the majority of the entities have progressed beyond that point and pass through the region easily.
However we shall first discuss the effects of material beliefs. A person who spends their time focusing on the material builds an entire system of thought forms that correspond to the physical. Without looking for the spiritual it is not found at the death transition. A number of people in Western Society are handicapped by this materialism. And when they make the death transition discover a world quite similar to the one they have left. So much so that it is confusing to them.
People who have no particular beliefs can also fall victim to this illusion. People or entities with a like belief structure tend to find each other and tend to create elaborate thought forms resulting in communities quite like the ones that they recently departed. Entire cities are built on the lower Astral. And these entities follow through with routines quite similar to the ones that they manifested on the physical plane. They even simulate the typical functions of the physical plane such as eating, sleeping and of course going to the bathroom. This state can last for an indefinite period of time depending upon how strongly imbued the individual with the orientation towards materialism. What the teaching entities attempt to do is to infiltrate these cities of illusion and work to wake the individual up if you will, for you can say that these cities of illusion are an extended dream.
There are two ways that the teaching entities attempt to assist. As mentioned infiltration of the illusion, also when the entity enters into the simulation of sleep. They in a sense free their consciousness and attempts are made to break through to instill within them the higher knowledge that this level is a lower one that needs to be transcended.
For some entities their level of development is such that this is as high as they can go. And what occurs to these particular entities is that they live a life, if you will, and die from that life and this death is of course being born again into the physical plane. However a number of the inhabitants are simply handicapped, blinded by the created thought forms of their most recent physical plane existence. The ones at the lower level of development can and are reached by the teachers who integrate themselves for the purpose of teaching into the their reality.
The ones that are blinded, if you will by the delusions are more difficult to reach. They are using their extra development to close out, due to the nature of their acquired beliefs, things outside of their reality. The less evolved entities do not have this capacity. They are at this level to learn, to be assisted and then once again to return to the physical plane where continued growth will be accomplished, hopefully.
The third level of the Astral is the highest of the Astral Emotionalism still as an element. But at this level the individual is not totally involved in the material illusions. The individual has the capacity to achieve more abstract teachings. They are still oriented towards the physical and towards the material. They still choose to possess forms that resemble the human physical vehicle and they insist upon social clusters. The quality is such that the resemblance to the physical plane although somewhat removed is still there.
At this level the teachers have a more direct input. It is not as difficult to reach the individuals. Structures exist that correspond to the symbols of learning and at this level the upper most of the Astral, the attempt is made to teach the inhabitants the nature of relationships and the importance of control of the emotions. At this level more of consciousness is involved in the planning of the next incarnation and the person does not feel the need to live if you will. Assimilation of a physical plane existence form, as I say, is still important and emotionalism still operates in that relationships from the earth or physical plane sense do have a tendency to proliferate. However the teaching does occur to people or entities at this level are more aware of the higher thinking or the potential for spiritual thinking and attend the training classes if you will.
It is at this level that many of the problems associated with relationships must be resolved. The individual is faced with the test of overcoming the shall we say "bondage" that most people subject themselves to concerning a relationship on the physical plane. It is at this level that these things are worked out and preparation is made to overcome it. This is one of the most difficult levels for the evolving entity to transcend. Many life-times are required. However if the entity can begin to integrate the teachings, the spiritual teachings of this level into their physical plane incarnations the impetus is given or created so that the nature of relationships are resolved on the physical plane and upon the death transition. The entity breaks through the barrier and rises to the next plane or level of consciousness.
At this point we would like to generalize a bit and state that the individual entity exists simultaneously on each plane including the physical one. In chronological time or sequential time, linear time is only a convention that the human consciousness must have in order to function. However consciousness, consciousness is the key. Each plane has its vehicle that serves as a repository for the consciousness and what the entity is learning to do is to take that consciousness back to its origin.
This is accomplished by the learning of lessons, by removing the limiting beliefs that structure the reality on the lower three planes. You can look upon it as a form of ascension. When physical incarnations are no longer required when the lessons have been successfully learned then the entity does cease to exist on the physical plane and there is a final death transition. The same thing must happen on each subsequent plane above, as the consciousness collects itself and moves upward. The elementals, the essence of the plane that served as the vehicle for the consciousness is no longer required and it dissipates. What we hope to do with this information is to help the individual achieve the boost necessary to break through the Astral level into the mental. It is at the mental level that many of the important lessons that prepare the entity to expand beyond the mid-point are learned.
However as long as emotionalism functions it will tend to weigh the entity down on the Astral level. This will tend to structure physical incarnation at the emotional level. "The Karmic patterns" that the individual is confronted with will be of an emotional nature. Emotionalism tends to feed upon emotionalism. This results in a greater attraction to the physical plane and fixation of the consciousness at the Astral.
In summary of what we have discussed this evening. Emotionalism and relationships are two interwoven and important lessons that the evolving entity must learn. They are most basic and most difficult. Hopefully at the next communication session we will have the opportunity to deal with the mental level. Just as a clue to the nature of the mental level you will see why the people who or I should say entities who have evolved to the upper mental levels tend not to have what would be classified as traditional relationships on the physical plane and their emotions are expressed not in a raw uncontrolled form but a purer refined controlled form.
Work to release your blocks, your fears. Work to free your emotions. So that you will not be controlled by them. We are working to help each of you develop your talents but it requires perserverance and I suppose we could say some degree of sacrifice on the physical plane. For your physical plane consciousness, for the effort required does tend to displace things that consciousness ordinarily would be doing on the physical plane. However as the days ahead loom closer you will see that the effort that you expend now, the choices that you make are very important. Go in peace and with our blessings. SO BE IT.

[Brinclhof]

I have a question dealing with planes. When I was in high school I felt I was able to sense the astral plane. I went to high school in Texas. When I went to college in Mississippi I seem to loose the ability to sense the astral plane. I have been in MS for 8 years now and I am still blinded to the astral plane and the abilty to sense it. Any suggestions on how to reawaken my senses.

[Heathen Dawn]

Since Paganism isn't a single religion we have to be careful to make it clear when we present a particular idea that we're not trying to suggest the idea is some sort of universally accepted one (unless it really is, of course... but I'm not sure I can identify a universal that applies to all Pagans.)

I’ll put a disclaimer next time I post such an opinion.

[Ben Gruagach]

I have a question dealing with planes. When I was in high school I felt I was able to sense the astral plane. I went to high school in Texas. When I went to college in Mississippi I seem to loose the ability to sense the astral plane. I have been in MS for 8 years now and I am still blinded to the astral plane and the abilty to sense it. Any suggestions on how to reawaken my senses.

I think that any spiritual discipline you decide to take up is likely to help you reawaken your ability to sense other realms. If a particular practice strengthens your ability to sense subtleties then you pretty much have it.

Meditation where you learn to listen quietly and still your mind is a good way. Visualization exercises also help a lot. You might find that the sense that works best for you isn't sight at all. Some people find that they can hear, or smell, taste, or feel rather than see when it comes to sensing other realms.

But like with most things it usually takes a lot of practice. It sounds like you were in a rather fortunate position when you were in Texas in that sensing other realms came naturally to you. Perhaps where you were at that time was a particularly potent place where the "veils between the realms" were thin. You might find your senses coming back if you seek out other places that are likely to have a lot of inherent spiritual power. I'd be inclined to look in natural places (parks, etc., especially near natural bodies of water) or in holy places regardless of the religion.