Wicca -- What exactly is it?

[bloodstone20]

Hey everyone. I am wondering what exactly makes a Wiccan A Wiccan. I know what makes a Pagan a Pagan, by one definition I favor, "Any form of Worship that is based on the belief of an all emcopasing force that is in everything." But Wicca is less clearly defined. Some say it is Witchcraft, but this is not true, as Witchcraft is mixing magick and religion. So what is Wicca?

[Happydog]

Try this page:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos216.htm

and:

http://www.magicwicca.com/wicca/definition.html

Those are some pretty common responses to your question. The first one is shorter than the second one.

//Some say it is Witchcraft, but this is not true, as Witchcraft is mixing magick and religion. //

Well, Wiccans practice witchcraft. Not all Witches are Wiccans, but Wiccans definitely practice witchcraft.

I have a different view of witchcraft than yours. Witchcraft to me is more than a mixture of magick and religion. Witchcraft, to me, is "the craft of the Wise," as someone described it. It's a way of life that encompasses both magick and religion, and transcends both. It's a way of living, and an expression of being.

I think magick, also, is something a lot bigger than casting spells. Here is something that Aleister Crowley said that I agree with for the most part. When he gets to the parts about dominating and subjugating things, that's where Uncle Al and I diverge, but I agree with a lot of his thoughts here. Follow this link:

http://www.totse.com/en/religion/the_occult/crowly14.html

Hope this helps, and doesn't confuse!

[bloodstone20]

Happydog, that was exactly what I was trying to say, without all the typing. :). And no, not all Wiccans are Witchs. My friend Rach only honors The God and Goddess. She casts no circles, does no spells, and never even raises energy. All she does is pray, which some might arue is magick, but i disagree. Prayer, imo, is asking the God/dess for something, and that is all.
Just my 2 pents.

[Myst]

Ok, a few things.

First you ask what Wicca is then say your friend is definitely a Wiccan but not a Witch because she "only worships the God and Goddess". If you don't know what a Wiccan is how can you be so sure she's a Wiccan at all?:)

Not all Wiccans believe in a "God and Goddess" - some believe in the "All", the divine life force of the universe, or just "Life". Some speak to the Lord & Lady or have their own names for the deities they work with, or don't believe in that deity thing at all.

Wiccans in general have some sort of belief in a divine entity (whether All, God & Goddess, or Life, etc.), follow the Wiccan Rede, understand and pay attention to the Law of Threefold Return, and gender equality (though not necessarily, as in the case of Dianic Wiccans). They often celebrate holidays according to the seasons and the turn of the wheel, unlike Faerie Pagans who celebrate sexuality and joy as opposed to season.

Witches don't have a religion necessarily.

Lastly, spellwork IS prayer, just sometimes with props added. When someone "prays" they are focusing on an intent (even if that intent is to ask God for help) just as someone who "casts a spell" is doing.

JMHO :)

P.S. Thanks for the great links happydog!

[Sephiroth]

actually i have to disagree witchs have a religion i believe is like wicca. they have a creed and they have some of the same beliefs we do. have u ever read the witchs creed??


The Witches Creed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hear now the words of the witches,
The secrets we hid in the night,
When dark was our destiny's pathway,
That now we bring forth into light.

Mysterious water and fire,
The earth and the wide-ranging air,
By hidden quintessence we know them,
And will and keep silent and dare.

The birth and rebirth of all nature,
The passing of winter and spring,
We share with the life universal,
Rejoice in the magical ring.

Four times in the year the Great Sabbat
Returns, and the witches are seen
At Lammas and Candlemas dancing,
On May Eve and old Hallowe'en.

When day-time and night-time are equal,
When sun is at greatest and least,
The four Lesser Sabbats are summoned,
And Witches gather in feast.

Thirteen silver moons in a year are,
Thirteen is the coven's array.
Thirteen times at Esbat make merry,
For each golden year and a day.

The power that was passed down the age,
Each time between woman and man,
Each century unto the other,
Ere time and the ages began.
When drawn is the magical circle,
By sword or athame of power,
Its compass between two worlds lies,
In land of the shades for that hour.
This world has no right then to know it.

And world of beyond will tell naught.
The oldest of Gods are invoked there,
The Great Work of magic is wrought.

For the two are mystical pillars,
That stand at the gate of the shrine,
And two are the powers of nature,
The forms and the forces divine.

The dark and the light in succession,
The opposites each unto each,
Shown forth as a God and a Goddess:
Of this our ancestors teach.

By night he's the wild winds rider,
The Horn'd One, the Lord of the Shades.
By day he's the King of the Woodland,
The dweller in green forest glades.

She is youthful or old as she pleases,
She sails the torn clouds in her barque,
The bright silver lady of midnight,
The crone who weaves spells in the dark.

The master and mistress of magic,
That dwell in the deeps of the mind,
Immortal and ever-renewing,
With power to free or to bind.

So drink the good wine to the Old Gods,
And Dance and make love in their praise,
Till Elphame's fair land shall receive us
In peace at the end of our days.

And Do What You Will be the challenge,
So be it Love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment.
By Magic of old, be it done!

and they have their witchs reed of chivalry

Witches Reed of Chivalry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Insofar as the Craft of the Wise is the most ancient and most honorable creed of humankind, it behooves all who are Witches to act in ways that give respect to the Old Gods, to their sisters and brothers of the Craft, and to themselves.

Therefore, be it noted that:


Chivalry is a high code of honour which is of most ancient Celtic Pagan origin, and must be lived by all who follow the Old ways.


It must be kenned that thoughts and intent put forth on this Middle-Earth will wax strong in other worlds beyond, and return... bringing into creation, on this world, that which had been sent forth. Thus one should exercise discipline, for "as ye sow, so shall ye reap."


It is only by preparing our minds to be as Gods that we can ultimately attain godhead.


"This above all...to thine own self be true...."


A Witch's word must have the validity of a signed and witnessed oath. Thus, give thy word sparingly, but adhere to it like iron.


Refrain from speaking ill of others, for not all truths of the matter may be known.


Pass not unverified words about another, for hearsay is, in large part, a thing of falsehoods.


Be thou honest with others, and have them known that honesty is likewise expected of them.


The fury of the moment plays folly with the truth; to keep one's head is a virtue.


Contemplate always the consequences of thine acts upon others. Strive not to harm another.


Though there may be differences between those of the Old Ways, diverse covens and circles may well have diverse views. These views, even if they are different than yours, should always be given respect. When a coven, circle, clan, or grove is visited or joined, one should discern quietly their practices, and abide thereby.


Dignity, a gracious manner, and a good humour are much to be admired.


As a Witch, thou hast power, and thy powers wax strongly as wisdom increases. Therefore exercise discretion in the use thereof.


Courage and honour endure forever. Their echoes remain when the mountains have crumbled to dust.


Pledge friendship and fealty to those who so warrant. Strengthen others of the Brethren and they shall strengthen thee.


Thou shalt not reveal the secrets of another Witch or another Coven. Others have laboured long and hard for them, and cherish them as treasures.


Those who follow the mysteries should be above reproach in the eyes of the world, and should always seek to make this so.


The laws of the land should be obeyed whenever possible and within reason, for in the main they have been chosen with wisdom for the well-being of all.


Have pride in thyself, and seek perfection in body and in mind. For the Lady hath said, "How canst thou honour another unless thou give honour to thyself firstly?"


Those who seek the Mysteries should consider themselves as select of the Gods, for it is they who lead the race of humankind to the highest of thrones and beyond to the very stars.

[Myst]

All lovely poetry but one must remember we all have our own beliefs and practices and do not rely necessarily on poems written by others :)

IMHO, not all Witches follow the Creed or Rede of Chivalry. I don't, for one. A lot of Witches practice within the confines of other religions like Wicca, Stregheria, Voodooun, etc. Some make up their own "religion", mish mashing deities, rules, and beliefs as they like. Even others have no religion at all, just go about there day harvesting herbs and weaving magick as they like. There's lots of threads on this stuff earlier on in MW so feel free to do a search and see what others have to say too :)

[Spirahl]

Ya, what WillowRaven said :D !
Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading your post Sephiroth- poetry, but not beliefs. I am a witch, with no religion attached. I just believe what I do, and don't what I don't.
I'm not picking at you at all, just reinforcing the idea. It's a very common misconception.

[bloodstone20]

Witches can never be defined in a poem... there are to many different kinds. And I also disagree with the use of Wicca as a substitute for Witchcraft. They are not the same in my opinion, and shouldn't be treated as such. I veiw it as trying to give Wicca a much larger history then it has. It don't know about Dianic Witchcrafts routes, but since most choose to honor the Goddess above the God, that makes it seperate from Wicca ... imo.

[Dolphin's Eye]

Truth is that you'll find as many definitions of Wicca as you will find Wiccans, almost each person has a slightly diffrent approach towards Wicca, and many call themselves Wiccans but don't 'buy' Wicca as a whole and object to some of the terms, there are very basic rules that define MOST Wiccans, and they are the basic of the believe, but even them are NOT practiced by everyone and even the ground rule of Goddess and God is sometimes not believed.

Still the basic rules, that every Wiccan should believe in, or find her own version to it, or at least cosider before carring the title are:
The believe in the Goddess and God as the symbol of creation and main deties.
The Reed (harm none) or some version of the 3-fold law (which can vary from the harm none, to only harm in self defence, to harm when you are fully aware of the consequenses).
Love of nature, Earth and all it's living creatures - that's a common thing for all Pagan believes.
Magick workes, it is the tool of manipulating the force of creation.
The Wheel of Year, the Moon, the sky, the Pagan scared days... and such...

Wow, that came out pretty long!!! :-)
Blessed Be everyone!

[Happydog]

WARNING!! LONG WINDED POST AHEAD!! ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE!

//All she does is pray, which some might arue is magick, but i disagree. Prayer, imo, is asking the God/dess for something, and that is all.//

Prayer is important, though. Part of my, I guess you could say, tradition, is that it's wrong for me to interfere with another person's True Will. Casting a spell - working magick - is actively working to influence the Universe. But if I see someone I love doing something dumb, or if there's a situation I would like to influence for the better but there's someone else's True Will involved, I can't cast a spell or do a magick working that would interfere with their True Will. So the recourse is prayer. And it's been my experience that the God and Goddess do indeed answer prayers. So don't underrate the power of prayer :) I know that sounds a bit, well, non-pagan, but if you go through the old myths you'll find a lot of prayers being offered up. So there is a precedent.

//Lastly, spellwork IS prayer, just sometimes with props added.//

Eh, well. Hm. Well. Here's what I think and have learned, so preface all this with a big fat IMHO.

Working a spell requires raising energy. Magickal energy is a substance that exists in nature, like electricity.

Magickal training and practice enables you to draw on that energy and focus it through your words and rituals. The magickian is someone who uses the words of the spell, as well as the actions involved with the ritual to cast the spell, to draw that magickal energy to them, focus it, and project it in order to make the desired effect of the spell come into being. In a way, the whole process is like a lamp. The magickian is like the power cord, plugging into the natural energy of the magick, and conducting it (with the aid of the God and Goddess) to the spell, which is like a light bulb (sorta!). The end result is that the room is lit up, which in the magickal analogy is the effect of your spell being accomplished.

Invoking the God and the Goddess (which is a sort of prayer) at the beginning of your spell ritual is necessary in order to attune yourself to the highest good, and to ask them to help you direct the energy you are producing to its best effect and its most positive outcome. The God and Goddess (or the Divine, or whatever you want to call the higher power) are the ultimate controllers of magickal energy, so they determine the rightfulness of your spell and whether or not the energy you call on will be granted to you.

This is why the person casting a spell should always sit down and think through the spell before they cast it, trying to work out the possible effects of the spell and questioning even whether the working is necessary, before undertaking the working. An ill-cast spell is a big mess, like an electrical short-circuit that can blow out all the power in your house.

[Myst]

Ok happydog I see what you mean. Interesting.

However, in my big fat humble opinion (;)) you don't always raise energy to cast a spell. In the case of a binding or clearing of someone's aura, for example, you don't often reaise energy.

And to me, praying, focusing on an intent, IS raising some energy. I feel when you pray even subconsciously you're raising some energy for your goal (just by focusing on that intent and thinking you want it to happen) which is why praying can affect someone's health or the outcome of the matter. In effect, even if they don't know it, they've raised and sent out energy for their desired outcome.

*shrugs* But what do I know :)

[Happydog]

//And to me, praying, focusing on an intent, IS raising some energy.//

Oh, I agree! I agree with everything you've said so far, I was just trying to throw in my deux centimes worth of the little bit I know on the matter.

//I feel when you pray even subconsciously you're raising some energy for your goal (just by focusing on that intent and thinking you want it to happen) which is why praying can affect someone's health or the outcome of the matter.//

exactly, exactly...that was what I was trying to say, in my confused kind of way.

//*shrugs* But what do I know//

quite a lot, I think. Don't put yrself down! :)

[bloodstone20]

lets focus on what makes a Wiccan a Wiccan. Do you have to be initatied? Dedicated? Or neither?

[Happydog]

Well, Wicca is a spiritual practice that was rediscovered and refined (in my view) by Gerald Gardner and Doreen Valiente. The way I see it is that a Wiccan is anyone whose practice is derived from, or is a variation on, the teachings that Gardner/Valiente discovered, rediscovered, or wrote. Gardner was, as far as I know, the first to actually use the term "Wicca."

Now understand, I am NOT saying that Gardnerians are the only true Wiccans. Absolutely NOT. So nobody jump on me about that one, OK? What I am saying is that IMHO, anyone who considers themselves a Pagan, who follows some variation of the Gardner/Valiente path, and who cares to use the name "Wiccan," is a Wiccan. And Valiente has said as much in some of her books.

I don't think that definitions are as important as what the person *does*. If, in your heart, you agree with a lot of the tenets and teachings of Wicca and you want to call yourself a Wiccan, even though you don't cast spells or have any magickal tools, well, be my guest, go right ahead.

Some people might get annoyed at that, but my reasoning is this: there are tons of people who call themselves "Catholics" and yet only go to Easter and Christmas services. But even the Catholic Church accepts these people as Catholic. Just because you choose not to get involved with the formalities and intricacies of a faith, does not mean that you can't follow that faith as best you are able. Or as much as you want to.

Where I have a problem is with people who try to set themselves up as some kind of Great High Muckety Muck of Wicca, when it becomes obvious from reading and/or listening to them that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. What's shocking is that some of these folks are publishing books, doing lectures, etc., when it becomes really obvious upon listening/reading to them that they're making it all up off the top of their heads. Wicca has a history and a thealogy/theology, and it's out there. There's no excuse for any "expert" to mislead anyone.

But to sum up, if someone wants to call themselves "Wiccan" and do nothing else but make the occasional prayer to the God and Goddess and believe that the earth is a blessed place that we should help preserve, and not put on airs or attempt to pass themselves off as something they're not, that's fine.

[slvr_phoenix]

I guess I'll throw my two coppers into the pot and see what boils. Heh heh heh. :)

Witch: A loose term for a naturalistic follower of wisdom and the Earth. A Witch will use the gifts of the earth (herbs, barks, soil, sea salt, etc.) to improve their everyday life.

Wiccan: A follower of a loosely-defined religion (or a well defined religions with MANY different segments, depending on your point of view) that believes in the Goddess (and almost always the God as well) in some form. This form usually views them as actual deities, however in some instances views them instead as energies of a greater universal deity. A Wiccan also follows the Wiccan Rede, or a variant thereof, specified by their specific path.

A Witch does not have to be a Wiccan. They could combine Witch craft with any religion, or none at all.

A Wiccan does not have to be a Witch. They can combine their religion with any additional study or belief, or none at all.

A Wiccan does not have to perform magick. A Witch does not have to perform magick. Both often do, but it is not an absolute necessity.

Prayer: Communing with a deity, often to ask for them to assist in some way or take care of a problem.

Magick: The raising of energies to be applied to a will to make something happen, commonly refered to as a crafting or casting a spell. However, it can also include raising personal energies such as Chi to perform a task, which is not technically a spell.

Prayer is not Magick. Magick is not prayer. Magick however can include prayer to ask for energies or assistance from a deity to help cast a spell.

And finally, Karma, which is a believe in a universal balance between right and wrong in all things, does not necesarily apply to any of the above. It can be a part of them, but is in actuality an entire belief in and of itself seperate from all of the above.

Therefore the three-fold law is not required by anyone to follow or believe in, however is often believed by most Witches and Wiccans, as well as many other people.

[Myst]

There is another thread on whether you have to be initiated or dedicated already. Refer to it, I'm sure you know where it is :)

The simple answer is that no Wiccan has to do anything to be considered a Wiccan but call themself Wiccan and practice a path of light and nature. IMHO all Wiccans DO follow the Rede and 3fold Laws in some way and if they don't I wouldn't call them a Wiccan. If they don't I feel they're a Witch, or some other form of Paganism such as Shaman or Druid. They do understand there are balances in life and balance is good but they don't dabble in the darker stuff unless they *have to* (as in protection magick) and when they do they consider carefully the karmic repercussions. In general they feel that they don't need to add to the negative energy in the world.

Other then that, I agree with happydog and silvr_phoenix on most of what they've said.

[Krom]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
Hey everyone. I am wondering what exactly makes a Wiccan A Wiccan. I know what makes a Pagan a Pagan, by one definition I favor, "Any form of Worship that is based on the belief of an all emcopasing force that is in everything." But Wicca is less clearly defined. Some say it is Witchcraft, but this is not true, as Witchcraft is mixing magick and religion. So what is Wicca?

I will probably get pomeled for this one but I will throw my 2 coppers in also. I believe what makes a Wiccan a Wiccan is being initiated by a Wiccan who has the authority to do so.

MP B*B
Krom

[bloodstone20]

Does this apply only to the trads? Who was the first Wiccan, becuase, after all, all that call themselves this rightly, in your opinion, must have some sort of connection to them.

[Krom]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
Does this apply only to the trads? Who was the first Wiccan, becuase, after all, all that call themselves this rightly, in your opinion, must have some sort of connection to them.

Before the 60's there were no Traditions of Wicca there was just Wicca. As for the first Wiccan; I have no clue who it was...dead long before my time. One of the best researched book I have read on Wicca is called the Wiccan Roots. It was done by someone who has nothing to gain by proving Gardners claims one way or the other. It is from a British Publisher and is rare in America. I think it is available from Amazon UK.

[bloodstone20]

Wicca roots began in the 1900's as defined by the people mentioned before. Before that, it was The Old Ways.

[Krom]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
Wicca roots began in the 1900's as defined by the people mentioned before. Before that, it was The Old Ways.


No the name of the Book is Wiccan Roots. Unless I am misunderstand what you are saying here. :)

MP B*B
Krom

[bloodstone20]

as defined as Wicca began in the 1900s.

[bloodstone20]

Willow? Willow? A call for support.

[Happydog]

A very interesting book on this subject is Ronald Hutton's "The Triumph Of The Moon." He outlines in very definite detail the evolution of British witchcraft/Wicca, and it's a very interesting read indeed.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Krom
I will probably get pomeled for this one but I will throw my 2 coppers in also. I believe what makes a Wiccan a Wiccan is being initiated by a Wiccan who has the authority to do so.


No pommeling at all :) But, if that's what you believe, is that the only requirement? How does the first Wiccan get the authority to do so? Do they have to be able to trace their lineage back to Gerald Gardner? I'm fairly sure not every trad that exists could have possibly been able to do that.

In England, where Gardner resided, the anti Witchcraft laws were repealed in 1951. He and Valiente put together a book, "Witchcraft Today", in 1954. In 1959 he published "The Meaning of Witchcraft". Interestingly in this book he wrote "I think we must say good-bye to the witch. The cult is doomed, I am afraid, partly because of modern conditions, housing shortage, the smallness of families, and chiefly by education. The modern child is not interested. He knows witches are all bunk..." suggesting that Witchcraft was to die with the old ones who practiced it, *and* that he considered it a cult (a fact which many people argue). Not exactly a book meant to spur a revival of the Old Religion, was it?

In 1963 Raymond Buckland was initiated into the coven, and he's the one who brought the Craft to America.

From Gardnerian came Alexandrian, and so on. Various groups took what they could from those Wiccan trads and made their own between 1954 and the present in England, and 1964 to the present in America.

It should also be noted that Gardner claimed to be initiated into a coven of "hereditary Witches" that existed in New Forest and who's people had somehow survived the witch hunts of Middle Ages and the Renaissance. This claim has not been substantiated, which is why several people claim that Wicca may have nothing to do with The Old Religion, if it even existed before that at all.

Now I realize this is History and goes in the History forum but I think it's relevant to the topic. If we're going to argue how "old" trads are or how the "original trads" practiced I think we should all at least know who the first Wiccans were, for Goddess' sake.

Lastly, if you consider the new covens and trads that arose after Gardnerian but not to have been initiated by his coven to have been valid then I can solve the whole problem in an easy way.

By initiating myself into the Craft I have started my own tradition, as has everyone else who initiates themself.

[bloodstone20]

I agree with that... And I said something sililar to the last sentence in the Iniation vs. Dedication thread. The fact that Gerald considered it a cult further proves that he is only a form of Wicca because he claims there is a leader somewhere.

[slvr_phoenix]

WillowRaven, I have to disagree with you about Wiccans not dabbling into the darker stuff unless they have to. After all, how can one have balance without accepting both sides? I've known a LOT of Wiccans who have delved deeply into the darker mysteries. While they don't cast harmful spells, that doesn't stop them from working with dark energies or gaining a thorough understanding of them.

A lot of the books I see today are full of new-age fluff-bunny love and light. It's kind of sad, really. The Wicca that I came to know and practice is more about understanding the balance between and using that knowledge to uplift, heal, and protect.

But then I have a hard time believing in the concept of evil or good anyway, so I make a horrible new-ager. Heh heh. :) But in any event, I don't think that it's fair to even generalise that Wiccans don't work with the darker energies "unless they have to".

Oh, and I also don't think that Wiccan's have to follow the 3-fold law. Sure, it'll usually bite their arse off in the end if they don't, but they don't actually have to follow it because it follows them. Heh heh heh. :)

[eaglewolf]

slvr_phoenix,

While reading your post above, I thought for a minute you were a Penrodian Wiccan (my tradition)... up until the three fold thing, that is, lol!

Aside from your views on self-initiation (which are eerily similar up to a point), I would say you were reading from our BoS, from the posts I have seen you make thus far anyway. Are you one of my initiates in disguise, lmao?!

None of what I just said is important, just my long winded way of saying I agree with most of what you have to say, and welcome to Mystic Wicks...

:D

~ew

[bloodstone20]

Yep Yep, I embrace my dark side. And if I get hurt, its my refuge. I have done my share of returnings of negativity, and banishings. The Eight Gates of the Underworld seem to be coming faster then The Eight Gates of Light. I consider myself more of a Dark person then a light one. I know the power that anger can have, and the darker emotions as well. Some people are afraid of me because of this. Bt i do my share of light rituals as well. You can goto my website to read on of them! :)

[slvr_phoenix]

eaglewolf, that is funny. :) And thanks for the welcoming.

But no, I'm not one of your initiates cloaked in shadow. I'm just a man on a path that has traversed several lifetimes. It's part Eastern, part Western, and who knows what other tidbits may actually be a part of it. :) I'm not always sure. I just follow my insticts, which I know aren't all stemming from this life.

So I suppose it's even possible that I've studied your tradition in a past life. I've had difficulty regressing to any recent lives, so I may have studied things that I don't remember. **shrug** I just thought maybe they were too violent and I've repressed them. Or maybe they were so peaceful that they weren't as memorable. Heh heh.

But you don't have to worry about me being one of your initiates trying to pull the wool over your eyes. :) I'm just me, walking down a path that may or may not have been walked down before.

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
So I suppose it's even possible that I've studied your tradition in a past life.

LoL! Well, I don't think our tradition is old enough for that... ;)

We have studied with many traditions of varying paths. Some of our older traditional ways were derived from other paths (of course), with alot of our own flavour thrown in.

Besides, if you were Penrodian, I would have heard about you finding this site by now... lmao!

You're welcome for the welcoming, I see you have alot to offer the community. Some may become 'upset' with the way you present information from time to time, but take it in stride with a little understanding. Not everyone is thick skinned... but this is to be expected.

If you have any problems or questions about the site, feel free to PM or email me anytime.

~ew

[slvr_phoenix]

Heh heh. Ah, I don't usually worry about how people take what I say. I may at times sound like an arrogant know-it-all who takes life too seriously. The funny thing though is that I'm pretty much the opposite.

Life is too short to take seriously. :) I just like a good debate. Sometimes I may be serious, and sometimes I may just sound serious. But then my humor is often either dry or stale, so that's to be expected. :) And while I sound like I might know everything, I'm often ready to update what I know if someone else can prove me wrong. Heh heh. That's just the way of life. We can't be right all of the time. :)

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
That's just the way of life. We can't be right all of the time. :)

LoL! Well, you wouldn't know it from reading some of the stuff on this site...

Just be you, most things around here work themselves out in time. It is a good place to hang around and share with others, kicking up a little dust on occasion is good for all of us.

Learning and teaching is all the same in my book, I tend to just go with the flow.

May you live true.

~ew

[slvr_phoenix]

Sounds fine to me. :)

I think my favorite quote goes something like, "You're never too old to learn, just too old to admit that you're wrong." Heh heh. I wish I could remember who said it though. I just hope that I never stop learning. :)

[Myst]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
WillowRaven, I have to disagree with you about Wiccans not dabbling into the darker stuff unless they have to. After all, how can one have balance without accepting both sides? I've known a LOT of Wiccans who have delved deeply into the darker mysteries. While they don't cast harmful spells, that doesn't stop them from working with dark energies or gaining a thorough understanding of them.

That's actually exactly what I said. IMHO, in general, "They do understand there are balances in life and balance is good but they don't dabble in the darker stuff unless they *have to* (as in protection magick)" - they understand there is a balance and that balance is good, but they don't often cast harmful spells (ie. curses, hexes, etc.) or darker protection magick (ie. reflective) normally unless they have to, and if they do they carefully consider the karmic repercussions and whether the work is absolutely necessary - they don't just get some goofer dust and go crazy. As far as the 3fold stuff, as I said, IMHO if they don't understand and respect it in some form (ie. if they don't at least believe they'll get karmicly kicked in the rear in some way) I wouldn't call them Wiccan.

Yeesh. ;)