Shaman

[Nighthawk]

Too bad you cannot do a dream diary...You might find some things out... But, in reading this post Argent..you do not sound like you....

[Earthy]

I've started keeping a dream diary because i seem to have very strange dreams,the ones i can remember anyway.

[Shanti]

Shanti, you rock.....I will talk to you Monday
Ok, its Monday. I'm here! :)

[Nighthawk]

Augh.... I forgot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gala]

I very rarely remember my dreams. I had some last night and I remeber dreaming but right after I woke up ...they were gone. ??

[Deranged Hermit]

I very rarely remember my dreams. I had some last night and I remeber dreaming but right after I woke up ...they were gone. ??

I have read from several different sources that if you don't remember your dreams, it's probably because you're too tired, like exhausted all the time.

[Gala]

I have read from several different sources that if you don't remember your dreams, it's probably because you're too tired, like exhausted all the time.

That is probably very true. I have had some awesome dreams in my life, even on that might bring me in some money... so I'd really like to remember them...

I am very tired. I also have sleep apnea and have to sleep with a cpap machine because if I don't, I wake up constantly, 6 or 7 times a night and wake up with a sore throat from snoring. and plus your heart stopps. I do sleep better since I got the machine about 1.5 years ago. And am just now starting to realize that I'm dreaming.

In the past I didn't sleep long enough to get into REM sleep so that's why I didn't dream. Plus being worn out for work. I have a low threshold for exhaustion. Not much stamina.

Anyway.. Thanks

[argento_occhi]

Too bad you cannot do a dream diary...You might find some things out... But, in reading this post Argent..you do not sound like you....

i try to keep a dream diary and i write down the dreams i can remember, but sometimes they're gone before i get to them. It has been a very tiring semester. i'm not a morning person, so getting up at 6:30 am is unnatural, mainly cos i go to bed around 11pm, midnight, 1am... not enough sleep for me. i get by.

i don't sound like me? well, i was in a weird mood when i wrote it but i can't explain why i felt the desire to write what i did. yesterday afternoon... i'd just had my plant phys and molecular biol lectures, and i had planned to meditate for a while but never got around to it. i dunno. maybe Djehuti spoke the words to me and they were written. I can't really pinpoint exactly why i felt the desire to write that. i did and it was posted. i was kinda tired, though... i say some really weird stuff when i'm tired.

i think i'm kinda afraid of what i'd find if i delved into my dreams. i find psychology and all that kinda stuff fascinating, but only if it's about other people. i'd much rather leave my dreams alone, plus some of them are ... i dunno ... i feel like i'd feel wrong posting them. it's like i feel i'm the only one who'll understand them, plus i don't really like sharing my dreams. i had some really disturbing ones while i was dating this guy in year 12 (about 3.5/4 years ago), and that mighta put me off interpreting my dreams. dreaming about the characters in your stories is kinda offputting for a writer, especially when your boyfriend's involved as well. Perhaps i'll stop there. i might go and soak for a while and then try to go to bed early. Feeling a bit tired now, though that could be due to a number of things. i'm gonna stop now cos i'm rambling.

bright blessings,
argent

[Fianna]

Hi

Sorry for butting in but this is such an interesting place. I was recently told that although I follow the Druid path at the moment that my thoughts very much lean towards animism. Shanti (thank you) had indicated that I might read up on the Shaman as it sounded like what I was looking for.

The more I have read of this thread - the wierder it gets - in fact as I type this I have goosebumps.

If you don't mind I would like to listen in and learn a bit more. The dream thing really has me intrigued as I think I could outsell Stephen King if I started to put my dreams onto paper.

I also read somewhere - or maybe I dreamt it :-) that JRR Tolkien based his elves on the peoples who first experinced dream walking - Native Indians.

I must admit that most of the time my dreams feel more like reality than reality :-(

Sorry - the rambling bug has caught - I just don't like to sit and eavesdrop without letting you know I am here.

[Nighthawk]

Umm, I think I started the thread, and I have no problem with looking or sharing... In fact, I prefer it... we all learn more that way.. Welcome to the thread.. there are some really cool people on it..as you saw

[Fianna]

Thanks - a quick question - scenario really. Friend of mine - calls me at 4 in the morning to say that there is a guy in her room - calls himself Mohawi or Mohabi and says he is looking for me - as she put it "One of those guys from Dances with Wolves - he is here - feathers and all" and wants to know where you are?

Then hangs up. The next day she calls me early - tells me she had the weirdest dream - then almost faints when I tell her I know and explain about the call. The thing is - we know she dreamt of him - but she denies all knowledge of calling me - I don't actually remember picking up the phone and no-one else heard it ring - although it was pretty early.

Either she called me and just forgets - or I dreamt she called me - in which case I also dreamt about this Mohawi?

Anyone any ideas - my friend is by the way a devout Christian and therefor dismisses this as nothing more than strange coincidence - her mother reckons it was God somehow - go figure!!

Fianna

[Nighthawk]

Fascinating..... Well, I can say that it was a push... but whether a coincidence or not, who knows... Guys... wht do you think???? I believe this was a calling... I suggest you go to my class and do the backdrop just to see what happens.... Will you need my Spirit guide white wolf to borrow??

[Shanti]

Got caller ID?

Whether or not the call happened really doesnt matter. Her beliefs dont matter either. The facts, the way I see it is you got a message. Someone/spirit is looking for you and this wierd way worked!!!!!!!!!!

If you meditate or anything, or follow your dreams look for this spirit. Theres a purpose and it all came to you. She was just a channel that worked. Now that your aware, you should be open to more info as its sent.

[Fianna]

Fascinating..... Well, I can say that it was a push... but whether a coincidence or not, who knows... Guys... wht do you think???? I believe this was a calling... I suggest you go to my class and do the backdrop just to see what happens.... Will you need my Spirit guide white wolf to borrow??


Where is your class?

[Nighthawk]

circle of teaching.... collective memory/tribal memory

[Fianna]

Got caller ID?

Whether or not the call happened really doesnt matter. Her beliefs dont matter either. The facts, the way I see it is you got a message. Someone/spirit is looking for you and this wierd way worked!!!!!!!!!!

If you meditate or anything, or follow your dreams look for this spirit. Theres a purpose and it all came to you. She was just a channel that worked. Now that your aware, you should be open to more info as its sent.

Well that is the other weird thing - she lives in Norway and I live in the Netherlands? It is not like we are next door to one another - as for the call stuff - I can trace calls - but if they are outwith Holland it just says caller unknown - I don't have any record.

:-(

[Nighthawk]

Yea.... it was a calling... wonder why?

[Gala]

Might be on her bill?

[Fianna]

I checked and she said there was nothing and I must have dreamt it - wow - I know my dreams are weird but this one beats the lot - usually it is my recurring - drowning or falling off a bridge one or the awful - must cross the road - it gets empty and as soon as I step out a car comes dreams which worry me but this one has made me almost insomnia.

I feel like a star in the Freddies movies

[Gala]

I still don't think it was "Just a dream"
I think there is something to it... just don't know what.

[Nighthawk]

There is more to this than coincidence.... I can see that... I wonder if we can find a dream-vision interpreter....?

[GryphonGirl]

There is more to this than coincidence.... I can see that... I wonder if we can find a dream-vision interpreter....?

I have done some dream interpretation - can I help?

[Earthy]

Funny you should mention this.
My aunt travelled from London,where there was a big car crash on the motorway(she wasn't involved) but a message was left on her answerphone by an uncle of mine asking if she was ok,when she phoned him,he denied ever making the call,although she swears it was his voice.

things like this happen quite a lot in our family though,most of us have seen or heard my deceased grandparents in one way or another.I have vivid dreams about them,though i know they are not dreams as such,i know they are visiting me.

[Gala]

My ex husbands aunt Ann was psychic.. she would have dreams about stuff that would come true. Once she dreamed about a car on fire in the middle of the highway. they were planning a trip that weekend and went anyway.. Aunt Ann always said that what ever was going to ahppen couldn't be stopped. They saw a car on fire in the middle of the hiway but it wasn't theirs.
She knew a lot of stuff. I think she knew when she was going to die as well just never said anyting to anyone.

After she died... the family went apart.

My daughter knows things too but she doesn't want to. I used to ask her about my friends and stuff. She was usually right on track.. but sorry this is off the subject.

dreams I know nothing about... excpet usually unless they are prophetic, are usually your mind going over the days events or what ever you are worried about.

[Nighthawk]

You guys are doing awesome!!! .. I also think some dreams are visions of what can be....or are to be...

[Rowan MoonDragon]

what a truly awesome experience! it is definately more than a coincidence. someone is looking for you for a reason. I would definately meditate on it and see what happens.

[Fianna]

I have done some dream interpretation - can I help?

If you could it would be brilliant.

[Nighthawk]

Umm, Fianna... just PM her... She will be around tonight....

[Earthy]

i had a fantastic conversation with Shanti a few nights ago,and what she said to me,truly opened my eyes to the way i was thinking and what i believe now.
thanks Shanti. :smile:

[Tsuchimaru]

I'd like to learn more about Shamanism. :bouncybob

[Shanti]

i had a fantastic conversation with Shanti a few nights ago,and what she said to me,truly opened my eyes to the way i was thinking and what i believe now.
thanks Shanti. :smile:
Oh Earthy I didnt tell you anything more than what you already knew.....:)

[Earthy]

Oh Earthy I didnt tell you anything more than what you already knew.....:)

i know..has changed my beliefs though,once believed in creation,now veering towards evoloution.
I don't need to feel i was created by anything other than my parents,and i don't have to have a belief in a higher being i could never connect with.
All i need is spirit,and spirit in all things.:)

[Tsuchimaru]

All i need is spirit,and spirit in all things.:)

Something.....about that line....brought a smile to my face. How oddly refreshing....

[dreamweaver]

Would you mind if I drop in from time to time.I have been studying this topic for a while and am trying to learn all I can.My answers to the early questions are also Yes to both.

[Earthy]

Hi Dreamweaver,welcome.:)

I just pop in too usually,i don't really know much either,so the more the merrier.

[dreamweaver]

Thank you Earthchilde for the invite.To the questions asked early in this thread I answer yes to both.
I have studied Shamanism for a while now and to describe what is is all about to someone who is asking the question I find it very hard to answer without becoming a teacher.Being that there are so many different aspects to Shamanism it makes it very hard.

One thing I have learned is that to practice you must have a pretty good connectedness with Spirit or the God or Gods of your faith.I was also intregued to find that it can also be practiced and fits into most of the religious practices of todays world.

I was very fortunate in the begining to have had a very wondreful and great teacher with lots and lots of patience.Believe me he needed them in my case.Whenever asked a question he never gave a direct answer but asked a question in return.It used to frustrate me at times but looking back on it now it was right and kept me thinking.Nothing is gained through laziness.Giving me the answers was not the way it should be done.

A few of the things that I found hard the first year or so was
(1) to have faith in Spirit.
(2) to be truthful to myself
(3) to get over my fears of the unknown
(4) listening to and getting to know my inner self
(5) letting go of my ego.
A couple of the easier ones were
(1)not to knowingly transgress anothers path as in the eyes of Spirit it is wrong to do so.All paths are to be deemed sacred as they are in the eyes of the one following them.
(2)the answers to which we seek are usually found in sheer simplicity.As humans we tend to overlook them thinking they have no bearing.This is wrong and leads to much overcomplication which causes us to become bogged down and we soon find we are like birds flying in small circles (we don't get very far).
(3) to take time for all by talking to everyone.Even the one we deem the fool has lessons that can be learned.In essence listen to what they are saying not what they are talking about.Much can be learned from body language,facial expressions,tha eyes,Etc.

I believe that the connectedness with nature in my case is caused by the knowledge that all things are one.We are connected to everything that Mother Earth has placed on this earth as Spirit is within all.My inquisitivness in all things and the need for knowledge makes studying all our friends easy.I have learned to relax and enjoy the wounderous things that Mother Earth has been so gracious to have placed before us.There are so many lessons that she can teach and there is no better as she has far more experience than all

I have a few pictures of a place that I deem as sacred that I would be glad to send to those who were looking for them.You can do whatever you choose with them.

There is also a place in northern Ontario I go to fairly steady.I have no pictures as I respect the area for what it is a very sacred shrine from the past.There are pictures on the net as it is fairly well known for the pictures painted on the rock wall.They go back over 500 years.It is called Agawa Rock.

Looking forward to getting to know you all

[Deranged Hermit]

I was just thinking and wondering how any of you feel about ownership of living things vs. guardianship/custodianship. The way I see it, is that a person can't really own a pet, or a tree, or a plant. Not to say that they aren't responsible for it. I think of my pets as friends that live with me that I take care of. Just like I wouldn't think I "own" my kids. The same with the plants I grow, or the trees and plants already here. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I feel "safe" posting here. :)

[Nighthawk]

Hello dreamweaver.. and welcome to this special thread.

Judy... DH... I agree.. we borrow things.. the Earth owns us.... and a tree can be 'mine' for a time.... but I do not own it...for, it can choose to die at any time... and I no longer have it.... animals same..

[dreamweaver]

We never truly own anything on this world that is why I class possessions as illusions Most just feed the ego.To me my pets are friends that I have met as I walk my path.

[Nighthawk]

Uh huh...very cool..... I like that

[Shanti]

I believe that each animal that comes into our lives picked us because it has things to teach us. We cant own them, they are our teachers.

[Shadowolff]

[...]
It feels so very sequential to me, like -this- leads to -that- and that means -something else-.
Oh, yes, what unfolds in my life most definitely is sequential, and interwoven... I learn, and grow and take awayjust exactly what I need for where I am in that moment... but the past is not static, fixed, meaning only one thing like a fable with only one moral attached. When I look back on times when the Numinous broke through the mundane and everything shifted, I remember what I came to know then, but now, later, with more threads spun and woven into the tapestry of my life I can understand even more. The past is alive in the present, illuminating the future -- and that's misleading, because all times are in the Now...

Ahem. Not sure if any of that makes much sense... My Path is more of a Vision Quest than in learning through words what a certain tradition teaches in order to embrace and follow it... I learn about the traditions and experiences of others not to find out what is true, but to see what I recognise as resonating with my own experience. I respect the paths of others, and find very, very much that I share with many of them -- but I don't claim the label of any. That would mean by definition, "this, and not that" and I give no person or institution of humans authority as regarding my relationship with the Divine One...

To quote Leonard Cohen, as sung by Buffy St. Marie: GOD IS ALIVE ~~ MAGIC IS AFOOT ~~ (...) LOVE NEVER DIES

p.s I look forward to following this thread...

[Thistle]

I wanted to read through this thread before I posted. Wow! Lots of thought provoking stuff in here.

Hope it's not too late to jump in, since I've been interested in shamanism for a long time. I have no Native American DNA, but I believe that interest in it is like a call from the spirits, that they want to work with you.

Like many here, I have a complicated relationship with water-love being near it, especially the ocean, but don't want to get in too far. Also never really felt like I belonged anywhere.

The dream discussion was so powerful. I've been working with my dreams a lot lately, after a very long time of being unable to remember any of them. Every night before I went to bed, I set the intention, "I will remember my dreams". It only took about a week until I started doing it, and have been remembering them pretty consistently since. I found one of those voice activated tape recorders helped me remember well enough until I could write them down. Just some thoughts that worked for me, and may work for somebody else.

Loved the idea that pets/plants aren't owned, but are friends and teachers. It just seems right. I'm looking forward to learning from everyone.

[Nighthawk]

I wanted to read through this thread before I posted. Wow! Lots of thought provoking stuff in here.

Hope it's not too late to jump in, since I've been interested in shamanism for a long time. I have no Native American DNA, but I believe that interest in it is like a call from the spirits, that they want to work with you.

Like many here, I have a complicated relationship with water-love being near it, especially the ocean, but don't want to get in too far. Also never really felt like I belonged anywhere.

The dream discussion was so powerful. I've been working with my dreams a lot lately, after a very long time of being unable to remember any of them. Every night before I went to bed, I set the intention, "I will remember my dreams". It only took about a week until I started doing it, and have been remembering them pretty consistently since. I found one of those voice activated tape recorders helped me remember well enough until I could write them down. Just some thoughts that worked for me, and may work for somebody else.

Loved the idea that pets/plants aren't owned, but are friends and teachers. It just seems right. I'm looking forward to learning from everyone.
Well, welcome.....looks like you belong here..and I have very little blood of NA in me......but raised by a fullblood...and so, you see.... you fit in...these are pretty incredible people here.....

[WolfMoon]

This one is a diffiult topic for me. Do we own some things? Yes. My clothes, stuff like that. Inanimate objets. My dog? No...he lives with me (actually, he's my 'baby') but own another living thing? No. Although legally, I do. Paperwork is just that...paper. My cats? Anyone who's ever lived with a kitty will tell you...it's more like the other way around! ;) Seriously, no. Cats have such a wonderful air of independence around them.

I'm having some problems as of late. Feeling very 'outside' and wanting to get back to my cheerful self. Been a rough year, I guess. But that's the reason I've been so quiet on this board lately.

My dreams...my dreams used to be really vivid and I remembered all of them. I'm going to try that 'I will remember my dreams' mantra! I miss having in-depth dreams...

[li'l_red_one]

wow i missed out on so much (my computer blew up :wah: )
but this thread has come a long way it has been really interesting to read everyones thoughts on this topic. and every one seems to have a good hold of the topic :bigredgri. i have had a good sense when chatching up on everything.

[argento_occhi]

i frmly believe that i don't own my cat, or the canaries we have. my cat is my baby, her life has been entrusted to me, so i have a responsibility to care for her and ensure she is looked after. when i was younger, like 12 or 13, i owned a pet, but now it's different. it came as a very profound realisation that i was holding a real life animal in my arms, who needed to be looked after. i've come to believe that she is not just a feline mammal with fur and four legs. she's got her own distict personality, and a soul, i believe. i feel very strongly about this now. though she's not my 'familiar' -- and i use quotes to mean a spiritual animal companionship of a generalised manner, not just for an animal participating in more witchcraft/wicca based rituals -- she does turn up during my morning prayers to sit on my bed, which i think is so sweet of her. i think she likes my altar in my room. there's lots of cats on it. i have a soft spot for the egyptian cat goddess bast ;)

[Gala]

I wanted to read through this thread before I posted. Wow! Lots of thought provoking stuff in here.

Hope it's not too late to jump in, since I've been interested in shamanism for a long time. I have no Native American DNA, but I believe that interest in it is like a call from the spirits, that they want to work with you.

Like many here, I have a complicated relationship with water-love being near it, especially the ocean, but don't want to get in too far. Also never really felt like I belonged anywhere.

The dream discussion was so powerful. I've been working with my dreams a lot lately, after a very long time of being unable to remember any of them. Every night before I went to bed, I set the intention, "I will remember my dreams". It only took about a week until I started doing it, and have been remembering them pretty consistently since. I found one of those voice activated tape recorders helped me remember well enough until I could write them down. Just some thoughts that worked for me, and may work for somebody else.

Loved the idea that pets/plants aren't owned, but are friends and teachers. It just seems right. I'm looking forward to learning from everyone.


Hello Thistle, welcome. Good to see you here.

[Thistle]

Good to be here, too. :D

[Nighthawk]

I have learned so much in and from this thread, and all have been very helpful and respectful.... This thread should get an award... for all the stuff in here..

[Koyote Song]

Allot of Posts. I have yet to read them all but will. I saw some questions on what books to read and links to check out. I have a few suggestions...

http://www.shamanism.org/ - It was created with Micheal Harner in mind...he wrote the first book I read about shamanism "The Way of the Shaman". Highly Recommend it.

Black Elk Speaks: Being the Life Story of a Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux by Black Elk Another good one for learning about Native American culture from a Holy Man's point of view.

Fire in the Head by ? Cowan I don't remember his first name...but he covers several different cultures, although from reading the book, I came to the assumption that he favored Celtic Shamanism.

http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi.html - just an interesting link about the Hopi Indians version of Creation.

And as always, my favorite sight for Sacred Texts: http://www.sacred-texts.com/sha/

What I know of Shamanism:

*Most Anthropologists will tell you Shamans base allot of there religious beliefs on a form of Animism (http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/religion/animism/beliefs.html).
*Early ideas - to become a Shaman one needs to either be taught by one or have a near death experience which would bring the Shaman closer to the spirits (disclaimer: please don't try this). I have been told that folks that have not had training are called Shamanistic or Shamanists (I only heard this once and have not followed up on validating this).Added after further thought...this is just stating how most ancient and aboriginal cultures aquired their Shamans with a little blurb on what i was told by a fellow Pagan on how some Shaman's discribed themselves within the Pagan Community...again...last part not validated.
*Most Shamans practice an ecstatic form of magic...practicing there magic through body deprivation (disclaimer: please don't try this), trancing (done by dancing, drumming, and/or singing - good example is the natural euphoric highs one can feel during dancing at raves), or euphoric unnatural physical/emotional highs acquired through drugs (disclaimer: please don't try this).
*Traveling alternate deminsions/worlds...already been stated by another poster and rather well.
*The purpose of a Shaman...at least to my understanding...is to act as counselor/guide/healer to a person/clan/tribe/group on concerns of death, spirits, divination, and be at harmony with oneself and environment.

Personal Opinion: Shamanism is a rather Experiential path, meaning they learn and give lessons through life’s experience, either by act or story.

Ex`pe`ri`en´tial Pronunciation: ĕks`pē`rĭ`ĕn´shal
Adj. 1. Experiential – relating to or resulting from experience; “a personal, experiential reality’; 2. experiential – derived from experience or the experience of existence; “the rich experiential content of the teachings of the older philosophers” –Benjamin Farrington (in this case elders or ancients…could be relatives who have passed or animistic totems)

If anyone needs references on the ideas or personal thoughts above, I will try to get them.

****Always validate information.****

[Koyote Song]

If I may, I'd like to contribute my thoughts on the aspect of our darkside.

We all have good and bad as we humans perceive it.
I dont think it is so much as embracing it as it is learning to walk in balance.
When we walk in balance we are the best of our over-all persona.
To me, if we lean to much to the good side, we can leave ourselves volunerable.
To much on the dark and we may hurt ourselves or someone else.
But when balanced we can equally give and receive without harshness or volunerabilitiy.
And we need both sides to have balance.


Nice! Agree fully. Harmony with oneself can't be found unless you learn about the good and bad within you. Accepting or changing either is something of a personal choice...but I personally suggest learning all of who you are.

[Koyote Song]

Is it that my presence is in the inbetween expirancing both the here and there and so they seem to be connecting at that point or am I in the inbetween plane where the two actually connect?

Always more work to do.

If anyone has expirenced the two planes simutaneously, let me know what your prespective of the connect point is and if you think it is an actual connect point. Perhaps it is differant for the differant people who journey.


I have had a theory explained to me that our soul/spirit...depending on your definition and how you use them...is the actual You. The soul/spirit is just using the body to interact and acquire experiences within the physical world...kind of like if you were playing a nintendo game. Allowing for another theory...that the soul/spirit is a kind of like a deminsional ball of energy storing experiences like a computer saves information on a hard drive. I like this idea; it opens up allot of different possibilities and poses some interesting questions...

*Allows for the idea that experiences are saved on/in/within the soul/spirit to be taken to the next body...hence remembering past lives is just accessing another bodies saved memories on/in/within the soul.
*if the realm the soul/spirit resides is not connected to time or is different than physical time...then it could be playing with several games (physical bodies) at once...giving to the idea why we can't remember all past lives or only parts of some.

interesting questions...
*How does the soul/spirit start out?
*How does it know to be born and with what parents?

I have my own theories for answering these questions but would like to other opinions.

...just many ideas, theories and rantings that float nonsensical within this bodies head...hehe...

[Koyote Song]

Oh...sorry for just jumping in the discussion...

I'm Koyote Song...Shamanism is one of my favorite topics to study. Please feel free to question and challange what i right...I'm learning just like you guys and find I learn best by the challenges life gives me.

I have seen some good stuff...posts that made me think hard (didn't hurt to much)...and some good links and books to check out. I especially liked the way folks interact with each other here. No spiteful comments that i read or harsh disagreements. It's nice to actually see a Thread were folks get along! I Hope i can help as much as i have learned from you guys.

[Nighthawk]

Ahhh, a new one.... so cool!!! I would personally like to thank you Koyote... for coming in and mixing... I am learning to think in ways I have not.... This just keeps getting better and better.

[Gala]

Koyote. Sorry but where are you from? Where is New Anglia?

[Shanti]

I have had a theory explained to me that our soul/spirit...depending on your definition and how you use them...is the actual You. The soul/spirit is just using the body to interact and acquire experiences within the physical world...kind of like if you were playing a nintendo game. Allowing for another theory...that the soul/spirit is a kind of like a deminsional ball of energy storing experiences like a computer saves information on a hard drive. I like this idea; it opens up allot of different possibilities and poses some interesting questions...

*Allows for the idea that experiences are saved on/in/within the soul/spirit to be taken to the next body...hence remembering past lives is just accessing another bodies saved memories on/in/within the soul.
*if the realm the soul/spirit resides is not connected to time or is different than physical time...then it could be playing with several games (physical bodies) at once...giving to the idea why we can't remember all past lives or only parts of some.

interesting questions...
*How does the soul/spirit start out?
*How does it know to be born and with what parents?

I have my own theories for answering these questions but would like to other opinions.

...just many ideas, theories and rantings that float nonsensical within this bodies head...hehe...
Yes the spirit is you. In fact its often many. Not all from this realms manifestations either. The you's (spirit) can be a collection of energies from many realms.
Spirit to me is energy, and it manifest from many infinate sources.
It also has no time ( for me, time is a human, marerial aspect), no limits and knows all that is spirit but it lacks one thing... Physical expirence. So it manifest into unlimited things to expirence the physical.

My ideas from my expirences.
Thats the best way I can put it into words. I am often at a loss of words when it comes to getting ideas of this sort out.

[Earthy]

I just want to say,this thread and a few people really helped me.
I was struggling for so long,feeling that i must have a connection with a higher being,a god/dess but it just wasn't working and i felt i was doing something wrong.
But now i see,all is spirit,and since then i have been so much happier,within myself,and with my spirituality.

[Shanti]

I just want to say,this thread and a few people really helped me.
I was struggling for so long,feeling that i must have a connection with a higher being,a god/dess but it just wasn't working and i felt i was doing something wrong.
But now i see,all is spirit,and since then i have been so much happier,within myself,and with my spirituality.
:hugz:
Feeling good inside yourself is all that matters. Everything starts inside you.

[magicbabs]

The way I see it....the spirits pick you for Shamanism...

It is not something that we choose. Kind of like you are tagged at birth - re-birth for the job.

I personally have been trained quite a bit but will never or should never call myself a shaman.

My lovely bit of "gift" is that spirits attach themselves to me. Then it is my job to send them on their way...

I certainly did NOT choose that job.

I have come to accept it as part of my life. Kind of weird to always feel a presence or many spirits (not just my guides) in the room with me.

Oh shoot...what was my point...darn I lost it...Maybe I will remember it later.

Babs

[magicbabs]

I have come to accept it as part of my life. Kind of weird to always feel a presence or many spirits (not just my guides) in the room with me.

Kind of makes sex feel like a room full of participants......LMAO...

Who said that?....... she giggles

[Koyote Song]

Yes the spirit is you. In fact its often many. Not all from this realms manifestations either. The you's (spirit) can be a collection of energies from many realms.
Spirit to me is energy, and it manifest from many infinate sources.
It also has no time ( for me, time is a human, marerial aspect), no limits and knows all that is spirit but it lacks one thing... Physical expirence. So it manifest into unlimited things to expirence the physical.

My ideas from my expirences.
Thats the best way I can put it into words. I am often at a loss of words when it comes to getting ideas of this sort out.


I'm glad i am not the only one that considers the same conclusions. :fpompoms

[Koyote Song]

Koyote. Sorry but where are you from? Where is New Anglia?


It's a part of England. I'm stationed here with the U.S Military.

[Crystal_Raye]

Not much I know, but I'd love to learn more!

Diddo.

[Nighthawk]

Good!!! We all share. We all read. We all learn, together, as it should be. Brothers and sisters walking and talking together. I am so happy to have, kind of met you all. This thread has been a teacher and a life saver at times. When I feel crazy or alone, I come in here, and realize I am not the only one... I thank each of you here...

[Gala]

Thanks Koyote Song. Just curious.. Never heard that name before,

Guys.. it has been a strange week.

My husband and I watched a lot of the Reagan funeral.

it doesn't matter what your politics are. How can anyone watch that little woman crying on his casket and not be moved.

It was a tough week for us.

I don't really know why I come here Nighthawk. I don't know if I am shaman or not. I can't seem to reach any spirit guides if I am. Or maybe it is just my left brain kicking in and saying ... oh it's just your imagination.

I don't know. I wish I did. Right now my thoughts are so scattered. I was going to a therapist for a while. I thought I had A D D, but I had to quit cause the year started over and I couldn't afford the full price. I need to go back.

But my brain darts around so much that I can't get anything done.

And medtating is almost out of the question.

and when I do meditate I don't let myself fullly go.

Sorry just rambling.

NH have you talked to Boog today?

[Ladyvi]

i dont think i ever mentioned my lineage or back ground. have cherokee and irish on my dad side . apache.. irish scott welsh and a smattering of english on my mother side ( psst dont hold that against me ~ winks~)

shamanism was one of the first paths that i embarked on i am a walker of two worlds. shamanism and druidry .. but walked it alone till i met my mate. who also has a strong native back ground. iroquais and penobscot(sp).

i have seen the beating heart of the great mother and have weeped at its wavering beat struggling to keep her children safe while being unslaughted by ravagers. i have heard the trees the secrets they have. i have stood and waited on the mountain to speak its history. took a while lolol:).

i teach my children respect for themselves as well as the creatures and relms around them.

[Thistle]

Gala:

We watched a lot of the Reagan funeral too. Very moving, sad but some humor too. A good balance, all in all.

I know you adressed this to Nighthawk, so I hope I'm not butting in, but maybe you come here because spirit wants you to, for some reason not yet clear to you.

How about a moving meditation of some kind? Tai Chi, maybe. Or just get outside and walk?

Just some thoughts. Love you.

[Gala]

Gods Thistle. I can't believe you just said that.. I have been in my bedroom for an hour trying to follow a Tai Chi dvd.
I get turned around. they only do it once at the end with their backs to you so you can follow along. So I get up to parting the wild horses mane and wind up with the wrong hand at my waist.
So I got the book that came with it and that just makes it worse.
I really want to do it.

I am so confused I could cry. The same thing is happening to me when I try to work on my web class. I am teaching an online class and having problems with the quizzes for my students (a whole four at 60 bucks a head... ) was hoping for a full class, quite a bit difference in the ccccccash. ) anyway. I start to get confused and wind up crying... cheeze.. I know it's probably menopause, but I can't take hormones.
sorry guys. It was just so weird that Thistle said that.. I am trying really hard.

[Nighthawk]

Hi guys... And, Gala...do not worry so much..It will come to you, I promise..yup, Boog and I talk each day..yup

[Deranged Hermit]

Gala, if it's any consolation, I get frustrated all the time, and cry all the time. And I know what you mean about your brain darting around. I'd go to the doc to see what's wrong with me, but I have too much anxiety to go to the doc. :yikes:

[Gala]

Well I stopped going to mine and now I am anxious about going back.. except that I didn't feel like we were doing anything. He didn't really pull anything out of me or I don't know.

The day I went in and was going to ask him ... where we were going with the therapy and what was I supposed to get out of it... that's the day I found out that my insurance us up for the year... so.... I haven't been back.

:whatmewor so anyhoo..
I just here. being my crazy self.

Blah, blah , blah.

[Asherah]

That would be such a beautiful experience!

Within a 2 hr drive of me, there is a wolf conservation park. They allow visitors at certain times of the day, usually noon and five. The wolf pack knows when the tour bus is coming and not only greets it, but I've heard they send up a howl when it arrives (very friendly like!)

At the end of the presentation, guests are invited to howl with the wolves. In fact, they host a monthly Howl Night, when the presentation happens at night.

I so have to go to that! :floating:



You're in MO ? I'd love to go w/ someone to the Wolf Sanctuary here.

[Asherah]

As per usual I am coming into this late :) but I am interested in a Shamanistic discussion. I personally do not feel that one can learn shamanism from a book.

For me the path has been one of meditation,listening to the animals,being aware of my surroundings and open to the possibilities.

I've journeyed, and shapeshifted and generally stumbled along the path, learning from my totems. If you don't mind anothers perspective I'd like to be apart of this discussion/study group.

[WolfMoon]

You're in MO ? I'd love to go w/ someone to the Wolf Sanctuary here.

Nope, out in western MA. Wolf Hollow is out by Boston, I think it's in Ipswich, near Salem.

[Asherah]

Nope, out in western MA. Wolf Hollow is out by Boston, I think it's in Ipswich, near Salem.


Oh sadness...

[Shanti]

As per usual I am coming into this late :) but I am interested in a Shamanistic discussion. I personally do not feel that one can learn shamanism from a book.

For me the path has been one of meditation,listening to the animals,being aware of my surroundings and open to the possibilities.

I've journeyed, and shapeshifted and generally stumbled along the path, learning from my totems. If you don't mind anothers perspective I'd like to be apart of this discussion/study group.
I would imagine it may be possible to learn from a book but I agree that it is a very personal learning expirence. The nature and spirit guides do seem to be very good teachers. I coudnt imagine learning something so involved from a book but you never know. Might be someone who has. I feel that Shamanism is differant for each one that practises it, hence a book would be one expirence. And I feel Shamanism is as unique and individual as we are.
I have never found anything to indicate that there are two or more Shamans that practise or expirence everything the same way.
I sure look forward to another perspective. I'm glad you stopped by! :)

[Koyote Song]

I would imagine it may be possible to learn from a book but I agree that it is a very personal learning expirence. The nature and spirit guides do seem to be very good teachers. I coudnt imagine learning something so involved from a book but you never know. Might be someone who has. I feel that Shamanism is differant for each one that practises it, hence a book would be one expirence. And I feel Shamanism is as unique and individual as we are.
I have never found anything to indicate that there are two or more Shamans that practise or expirence everything the same way.
I sure look forward to another perspective. I'm glad you stopped by! :)


Just my thoughts on the subject...I do agree that Shamanism is more of an Experiential path, but, knowledge wether it comes from a storytelling elder, more experienced traveler, teacher, mentor, spirit guide/totem, or book...is neccasary...a book is just another form of teacher...granted it's not very interactive and is definatly not better than a real live person. One must have a knowledge base to compare experience to before becoming wise. Just my thoughts... :bug:

I know i quoted you Shanti and i know i probably should have quoted the other poster...not picking :fpraiseyo

[Nighthawk]

Yes, yet...the book serves to assist the learner....and the learner does what they can with the knowledge..... For, it is the practice that makes one a shaman or not..that and how they think, more than what they think..yes???

[Shanti]

I know i quoted you Shanti and i know i probably should have quoted the other poster...not picking :fpraiseyo
Ok! :)

[Shanti]

Yes, yet...the book serves to assist the learner....and the learner does what they can with the knowledge..... For, it is the practice that makes one a shaman or not..that and how they think, more than what they think..yes???
I agree, well said!!

[Koyote Song]

Yes, yet...the book serves to assist the learner....and the learner does what they can with the knowledge..... For, it is the practice that makes one a shaman or not..that and how they think, more than what they think..yes???

I would like more clirification on the 'practice'. What do you mean by this? Excellent point on the how/what of thinking. I'm not sure how i would discribe it...but there is a way of thinking and reacting to life that is distinct with the Shamanistic ways.

[Shanti]

I would like more clirification on the 'practice'. What do you mean by this? Excellent point on the how/what of thinking. I'm not sure how i would discribe it...but there is a way of thinking and reacting to life that is distinct with the Shamanistic ways.

Sorry to put in my 2 cents. Hope you dont mind.

Practise...the process of doing shamanistic journeys.

[Koyote Song]

Sorry to put in my 2 cents. Hope you dont mind.

Practise...the process of doing shamanistic journeys.


Thanks. practice can mean different things to different people...if I had just thought about it for a bit...i might have gotten it. Doh! :bug:

[Shanti]

Thanks. practice can mean different things to different people...if I had just thought about it for a bit...i might have gotten it. Doh! :bug:
NH might have a differant perspective but when I say practise, thats what I mean. :)
Glad you didnt mind me jumping in! :)

[dreamweaver]

I class myself as being very fortunate as years ago I was diagnosed as being disabled and have had plenty of time to follow my path as I grow older.

You are right when you say Shamanism can mean different things to different people.To me there has to be a very deep spiritual aspect that goes along with it.It is a continual quest for knowledge that causes me to spend more and more time in the seclussion of the forests of Northern Ontario where I can be at one with Spirit as well as in a home that is completley natural.I have had wolves,deer,moose,bear,hawks,eagles and many other friends come to visit while I am on these trips.Mother Nature can be a great teacher as she has far more experience than all.

To me practice is not only journying but working with all.It is working with Spirit,listening to the innerself and all things Spirit and Mother Nature has been so gracious to have placed before us.I do not and will not class myself as being a Shaman but just a silly old man who knows nothing and has everything to learn.I am simply me.

[Nighthawk]

Yes, yes, yes.. And it is so interesting wht one 'knows' one day, and then 'knows' the next. For it is ever evolving and changing. And sometimes it is in the wind....

[dreamweaver]

It is because of these changes und understanding that they do take place that we must listen to all.We must learn to see with our eyes closed and greet these changes with open heart.

[Nighthawk]

Yes.... and be ready and able and open to change direction as the wind blows, in order to learn, or do whatever it is that is necessary.

[Nighthawk]

Hey guys...let's not let this thread die......

[Gala]

It has just been very slow on the board lately. I know I haven't been on as much.

[Nighthawk]

Nice to see you back, Gala.... really nice. Take care, me

[Deranged Hermit]

I will try to post more often here, but my knowledge is pretty limited.

[Ladyvi]

trying to unravel a lot of things on my mind about shaman journeys. at the moment do not need to do too much journey as i am with child. but i can relay some of my past experiences if you want to hear them.

[Deranged Hermit]

trying to unravel a lot of things on my mind about shaman journeys. at the moment do not need to do too much journey as i am with child. but i can relay some of my past experiences if you want to hear them.

I for one would love to hear them. Don't tire yourself too much, though.

[Ladyvi]

cringes before the handmaiden of spongebob.

gods the kids and that show .. ~ smacks head on keyboard ~:)

well when i first had an inkling that i had shamanic ability is when i got a book called 'the way of the shaman" dont remember the author . the book is around her somewhere.

anyway. it does describe ways of inducing altered states. in the back jungles of south america.. it was very strong halluncinagens. some culturs of native blood still use peyote. he developed a way without those items that are effective. drumming . however at the time. i had no drum and had no drum music or a way to get the music. my husband at the time was very controlling

i did it the hard way. on one of those rare occaisions that the kids are all napping at the same time . i took the chance. quiet room dim light and began the exercises. my first experience was very strong. down i went into the underworld. i passed chamber after chamber filled with interesting things. i wanted to stop to examine them but i was propelled forward. or downward whatever you call it. till i came to a stop .. and what do i see but the center of the earth . and her heart beating. faltering every now and then but still beating. i was crying. it was beautiful and sad at the same time for everything that is done makes the heart falter. i still feel the heart of the earth beating to this day.

[Deranged Hermit]

Sorry about my avatar, I know it's a bit much sometimes, but spongebob and co. is one of the few things that brings me that "kid on Christmas" kind of joy that I so desperately need.

Your post almost made me cry. One time my husband and I were at a park by Lake Erie, and I started to cry. He asked me what was wrong and I said that the lake was in pain and suffering because of all the pollution and abuse from humans. I really felt like I could feel "her" pain.

[Ladyvi]

i know .. every so often the earth gathers herself and sort of does a ' cleansing ' of her own. dont know when that will happen but i hope im well out of this life before it does.

[LunaRowenTree]

I would love to learn more, I am part incan
I am open to learn as much as i can
In light
Luna )0(

[Nighthawk]

SO cool... Inca..or Inka.. Welcome
and, Ladyvi.. Umm, Michael Harner.. author...
Dh.... you are so in touch..it is inspiring...
And Ladyvi.... Cool story... sorry about the controlling part..been there..

[LunaRowenTree]

Oh Incan from central america, I was born In honduras :)
I am very drawn to native beliefs and rituals as well as celtic and druis rituals/beliefs
I am an eccelctic green witch :) Lol!
In light!
Luna )0(

[Nighthawk]

LRT.. very cool.... so, are there any books you would wish to share??

[Deranged Hermit]

As I think everyone knows, I'm not actually on the Shaman path, but there are some facets of nature that I feel very in tune with, particularly animals. There are other facets, however, that I can't seem to conquer my fear of. The biggest of these is storms. I'm not talking about some rumbling thunder and cool streaks of lightning, I'm talking about the storms that have the tv and radio stations cutting in every 5 minutes with a new warning. I find it terrifying. One obvious answer is to turn off the media, which helps to some degree, but when the storm hits, I'm still just as scared. I haven't always been this way. 2 or 3 years ago, we had a storm (tornado or not was inconclusive). The winds were clocked at 90 mph, it came up out of nowhere, without ever showing up on the radar, and we spent a few frantic hours huddled and praying together here in our trailer. The thing I remember being the most frightening was the sound. It was louder than any natural sound I had ever heard. (When the power company came out the next day to remove debris from the lines, they looked like this... :holycow: ). Okay, sorry for rambling. What I'm wondering is, how do the rest of you handle your fears? I'm tired of being paralyzed by this, and I really don't want to wait until winter to get over it. Thanks.

[Gala]

As I think everyone knows, I'm not actually on the Shaman path, but there are some facets of nature that I feel very in tune with, particularly animals. There are other facets, however, that I can't seem to conquer my fear of. The biggest of these is storms. I'm not talking about some rumbling thunder and cool streaks of lightning, I'm talking about the storms that have the tv and radio stations cutting in every 5 minutes with a new warning. I find it terrifying. One obvious answer is to turn off the media, which helps to some degree, but when the storm hits, I'm still just as scared. I haven't always been this way. 2 or 3 years ago, we had a storm (tornado or not was inconclusive). The winds were clocked at 90 mph, it came up out of nowhere, without ever showing up on the radar, and we spent a few frantic hours huddled and praying together here in our trailer. The thing I remember being the most frightening was the sound. It was louder than any natural sound I had ever heard. (When the power company came out the next day to remove debris from the lines, they looked like this... :holycow: ). Okay, sorry for rambling. What I'm wondering is, how do the rest of you handle your fears? I'm tired of being paralyzed by this, and I really don't want to wait until winter to get over it. Thanks.

I leave the lights on and make my husband go to the bathroom with me at night... :)

[Gala]

Sorry... I am just in a goofy mood
I do take what you said seriously....

[Deranged Hermit]

That's okay Gala, it made me laugh, and that's a good thing! :lol:

[Shanti]

Gosh I fear, and it can be overwhelming at times but the main thing I believe is not to try to overcome as much as understand. With understanding, overcoming can just fall slowly into place.
I fear storms too but I know why I fear them. I am mortal and do not wish to harmed or killed and a storm is a dangerous situation. If a storm is predicted to be severe, I seek the proper shelter to provide the best protection, then my fear is more managable. My fear is from the desire to survive which is totally natural and is what keeps the animals out of danger. Without my fear I may just sit and watch a tornado take me away cause I wouldnt have a need to seek safety.

Rational fears such as these are normal and we do sometimes let them get the best of us, but I always remember, its my instinct to protect and survive so the best thing to do is stay alert, and provide the best safety I can. Then the fear doesnt make me nuts!!

My 2cents!:)

[Deranged Hermit]

Thanks Shanti, that makes a lot of sense. :smile:

[Ladyvi]

i am mostly afraid of people . deamons and nasty entities. im not afraid of. the gods and goddesses. im not afraid of. can converse with them as if it was a sunday stroll. a mundane i am afraid of . why? .. lots of bad things happened this life. lots. so even though deep down i wish for the good in all folks. i tend to avoid folks. is it healthy? probably not. but then i guess thats why my mate is more outgoing. keeps me from holing up and really becoming a hermit. a lot of the books i read are basically on the subject of comparative theology, human origins, and naturopathic medicine. if i was to list all of my books and interest there wouldnt be room.

[Gala]

I love storms... not tornados but storms.. I love thunder and lightening.
I love misty days, I think that's why I love Andrew Wyeth so much and his son Jamie. their paintings are sometimes misty and lonely. Morose and foreboding. For some reason I love that stuff.

[Nighthawk]

I too love storms, and fear people more....but, one does not get huge storms here in Washington.... I can say, you have a right to be frightened, DH.... I am not sure what to do about the fear.....

[SaberWolf]

I can only relate what happened in my own experience on this one. I was just out of college and starting work. At college, I hadn't fit in at all. I just chalked it up to being an open-minded art major, where the majority of people there were criminal justice and communications majors.

No big deal, right?

At my first job, I wound up working in a field that had nothing to do with my major. Sadly, I had to take it, had bills to pay and I was getting married. I tried getting along with my co-workers, but nothing seemed to work. My friendliness was met with polite distance and things were kept at that. I tried going to the little company get-togethers and unit happenings, but nothing worked. Eventually, I just gave up and did my own thing.

A few years later, after I had transferred to a different department I found something out. Someone who I had worked with originally told me that the rest of the group had been intimidated by me and had felt uncomfortable around me.

Intimidating? Me? Huh?! I'm a major goof!

Now, I still have quite a few friends, but they all have the same bent that I do.

So apparently, there is something in my nature that makes people feel uncomfortable around me.

OMG! Totally the same thing here, except mines even worse. I not only put people on edge, but I'm constantly spooking them too, yet I'm never jumpy (well, I haven't been for years.) And I have alot of trouble getting along with others too. Its not that I'm anit social or hate everybody, and I'm not argumentative: I just like to debate.
I love storms too. I hate being afraid of foolish stuff. Roller coasters bore me. I often get pretty strong vibes from people too. I think its cuz of my connection with animals. I've met people who make me want to growl and attack them. Its not aggression. They just suddenly awaken this primal protectiveness, like, "they're dangerous. Vipers. Wrongness. Unnatural."
Anybody get that feeling, and/or the exact opposite?

[Ladyvi]

storms ?? .. ~ chuckles a bit ~ . we got along i would say almost too well.

[Nighthawk]

Another...somewhat like me, I guess.. Ilkie to feel the electricity of a thunder storm.... for it charges me.....but, anyway

[WolfMoon]

I get so charged by thunder storms! I absolutely -love- it when they hit! I am not foolish enough to go out in them however, and watch them from indoors.

Then again, when they hit, I usually have to comfort my dog, who is the exact opposite and hides behind me during thunderstorms.

[Ladyvi]

depends on how cold it is if im out in it... i have stood in one from time to time. but then i am a certifiable nut anyway.

[Sleet]

I lived in Texas for a time, and was once caught outdoors in a real doozie of a thunderstorm. (Hail hurts.) It was awesome in the true, classic sense of the word. The raw, chaotic energy unleased by nature was astonishing, dwarfing any artificial exhibition of power I've ever seen (and I've seen a decent bit of that).

[Ladyvi]

was raised in texas and lived there up till two years ago. i know texas storms very well. i lived in proximity to the gulf as well.

[SaberWolf]

Yeah, I lived my childhood on the West coast of Florida. There aren't as many storms as there should be around there because of all the development, but when I lived there they were pretty regular, though still not what they should have been. I've heard people my mom's age talk about when it used to rain every day, at the same time. The storms were so regular a person could set their watch by them, but now old friends from there tell me that they're in a drought that's been going on for a couple years now. It makes me sad. :goodgrief

Here're some books to read on Shamanism:

Exploring Shamanism
Author: Hillary S. Webb
Publisher: New Page Books
Category: New Age Level: Beginner

Magick, Shamanism & Taoism
Author: Richard Herne
Publisher: Llewellyn Worldwide, Ltd.
Category: I Ching/Taoism/Magic & Shamanism Level: Beginner

The Truth About Shamanism
Author: Amber Wolfe
Publisher: Llewellyn Worldwide, Ltd.
Category: Shamanism/Nature Level: All

[Nighthawk]

Oh cool... new books to read... Thank you

[Ladyvi]

soon as i can garnish fundage.. money is very tight at th emoment . havnt been able to buy a book in a few months. ~ big sigh~ .. materials and supplies sometimes goes to the way side for the sake of the children's needs. still havnt found a supplier of sweet grass. my SO is part native as i.. as i said though . my children's needs come first.

[Shanti]

The best part of Shamanism is that its history covers the globe and was practised by people of many tribal races. I almost feel as if it is a path that does not see color or race or country. It seems to be a truely 'individual' path. In time I look forward to reading about practises in depth from around our world.

I recently watched a show on discovery about a presant day tribe in South America. The people dressed like us but the Shaman still followed every ancient traditon of his people, down to his everyday dress. It was a fasinating show and showed how dearly some traditions and cultures today still are the same as they were in the far past.

I another region that fasinated me was Africa. I have read bits and pieces and seen some documentries and all where fasinating. I look forward to studing these wonderful people in the future.

Perhaps I will find some time to do a little reading. I have a few books here that I just havent gotten to that are based on old traditional world tribal culture. If I do and I find interesting facts, I will post them! :)

[Ladyvi]

it would be fascinating to see that. one of my totems is tropical. why? .. i dont know. but he helped me learn the language of trees. not argueing the gift. just the jumble of various cultures in my totems.

[Nighthawk]

Shanti.. I would love it. and Shaman is universal... Africa, America... I think Australia also... oddly enough many of the things they do are the same..could this be collective memory??

[Shanti]

Australian Aborigians practised it too, acording to the discovery channel, (my favorite channel! :) ).

Collective memmory perhaps, or an ability that the human race as a species shares.

[Nighthawk]

Uh huh.... that is what I am thnking.... we should compare notes one day..oh wait.. mine are not written down... oh well.. say, have any pages for me to look at?

[Shanti]

I wish I had pages saved to my favorites. I like the educational cable channels the most for info NH and books too. Sometimes sites are hard to tell how acurate their info is, unless you do a search like at the national geographics archives or go to your PBS channels website and search archives. I mostly watch their documentries! :)

Right now I have the book:
Anthropology from the Hunter College of NY, and

Lost cililizations Africas Glorious Legacy by Time Life. and

Native American Dance, Ceremonies And Social Traditions, from the Smithsonian Ins, and

Anthropology by Haviland from the University of Vermont.

These are the books I am planning on reading now.

[Nighthawk]

Oh... and thank you... I really meant pages from your project..... I am gently prodding you... by the way.. we do need to talk about some things...
This shaman thread opened up my eyes, ears and heart. I am not the same person I was the day I started the thread.

[Shanti]

Pages from my project, not yet, still in scratch faze but hopefully soon. :) :)

I was planning on posting interesting facts I read about in the books I mentioned because some people might be interested in ancient and cultural shamanism.

[Ladyvi]

the book i most cherish that led me to shamanism ' the way of the shaman' by michael harner. he learned shamanism from a shaman in peru and developed ways to get altered states through drumming and other means other than drug induced.

[Nighthawk]

Ahh, I have that one.... and it is good... the one I most frequent is "Shaman, healer, sage" by Alberto Villoldo

[Ladyvi]

now thats one i havnt heard of. might just have to budget for it or save and get it.

[Nighthawk]

Worth every penny...

[Nighthawk]

Wow!! Well, greetings and hi there... I am just a man.. I have two men, and elder and a young warrior who visit me, with a white wolf, he is mine.. he I guess shows the way. I am a healer, as well as a warrior... I do not know why....but I am not sure I am Shaman... My history is long and boring. My father left us when I was two, and took all of our clothes, blankets and toys furniture..all he could. My mom 3 years later met a fullblood Colville/Yakama and married him 2 years after that. I have Irish, Scottish, Russian and Cherokee blood I am told. In 69 and 70, Boeing collapsed..Thomas was an engineer there, he was out of a job. We travelled to pow wows and rodeos from Canada to California.. To Colorado..to sell beads, bumper stickers, jewelry and stuff like that. I befriended people, even though I was 'blonde custer' and spent many evenings by fire with elders... My grandparents took me much of the time to a place called Darrington..on a river. No electricity or plumbing... I bathed in the river and all that. It was not hard for me..because the reservations did not have power then in some places either...We did also travel with Carnies..... I somehow managed to graduate school, even though missing very, very much... But then, I always tested well... just hated the every day stuff. I am 45 now, and as I have grown and aged I have changed. I was in the Christian church for quite awhile and enjoyed things there...I played lead guitar, mandolin, bass and keys for our worship team and we rocked! We also learned and were friends... They became my family... My wife at one point grew tired of these people and quit. I was expected to follow and regretably did. To shorten this up... I went to a native funeral...and it was beautiful, a celebration of life, rather than death. I shered it with my family and my wife made fun of it... More happened, we are no longer together.... I have assmed my roots once again, and follow up on many paths, but only feel one that is true for me. So, I teach a class here. Collective memory, which is going into Shamanism.. But, am I a Shaman?? I do not know.. Someone else better tell me, for I am a very poor judge of anything, including myself. I have two wonderful children also... I don't kow what else to say, and this is the longest post I have ever made.

[Ladyvi]

dont know night hawk. are you shaman? . am i shaman?

i have two heritages shaman and druid. neither of which i can place a finger on a direct lineage. though not as important as shaman as it seems to be for druid. in some druid circles you have to proove lineage to be of the druid. in some you have to be with a grove to be concidered druid. ~ shruggs~ i do understand quite a few of their concepts and practice it. shamanism i do share an affinity for as between that and druidry is the basis for my path.

i study several paths for i do follow one shaman premise. in order to understand a person one must understand how they believe. it is easier to aid in healing someone if you understand this.

am i a druid? .. am i a shaman? .. i dont know. but i do know i am a guardian. with it comes certain duties, certain responsibilities. how does this fall into shamanism.. have no clue. but the way my mind works i do take a more shamanistic aproach to my guardianship.

[Nighthawk]

IN which case..if you think correctly then you are... if I read you right.. Oh well, I will let someone else tell me.. I have nothing at all to prove to anyone..Just have a job to do.

[Ladyvi]

right night hawk

doesnt matter what you label yourself . doesnt change the job.

[Grace]

Ladyvi
What is the responsibility of a guardian as you refer to yourself?
What do you guard?

Grace

[Ladyvi]

at the moment northeastern pennsylvania. yes i mean the entire area. how do i do it. a series of construced mental grids i have placed thorought out the area. if you where of a mind to see these things. it looks something like thin silverygold spider lines. not much can get in or out that is major without me noticing. do i stomp on anything that happens . no. make myself nuts doing that. certain amounts of negative and positive things need to be present. i try and maintain the balance. .. not sure of other guardians but im very much neutral.

[Shanti]

at the moment northeastern pennsylvania. yes i mean the entire area. how do i do it. a series of construced mental grids i have placed thorought out the area. if you where of a mind to see these things. it looks something like thin silverygold spider lines. not much can get in or out that is major without me noticing. do i stomp on anything that happens . no. make myself nuts doing that. certain amounts of negative and positive things need to be present. i try and maintain the balance. .. not sure of other guardians but im very much neutral.
I would like to ask exactly what do you guard in ne penn? Its a physical location on a physical planet. The spirit world doesnt quite work the same way. I dont understand being a guardian of a physical territory. Except for the guardians of country which that would be the military.

[Ladyvi]

i work on multi planial level. if im needed elsewhere in the world. sure no problem i do go. but when im not other places. its here. spirtually and astrally affect the physical relm. keeping an eye on things is what i would call it. act only when appropriate. not all negative things require action . and some positive things can be destructive. as odd as that may sound. in all things balance is the goal. balancing out the energies.. weather patterns are slowly returning to the way it should. although folks are complaining about all the rain . the earth foliage and crops well appreciate the rain ever two to three days. this area is a bit on the cool side.. upper ninety weather is abnormal. we do teach and heal first before fighting .. magickal defense and offense we know very well. me personally try not to use offensive magick.. i shield a lot. cleanse, purify, sancitify. do everything you possibly can . then with the blessings of divinity. i act.

[Shanti]

i work on multi planial level. if im needed elsewhere in the world. sure no problem i do go. but when im not other places. its here. spirtually and astrally affect the physical relm. keeping an eye on things is what i would call it. act only when appropriate. not all negative things require action . and some positive things can be destructive. as odd as that may sound. in all things balance is the goal. balancing out the energies.. weather patterns are slowly returning to the way it should. although folks are complaining about all the rain . the earth foliage and crops well appreciate the rain ever two to three days. this area is a bit on the cool side.. upper ninety weather is abnormal. we do teach and heal first before fighting .. magickal defense and offense we know very well. me personally try not to use offensive magick.. i shield a lot. cleanse, purify, sancitify. do everything you possibly can . then with the blessings of divinity. i act.
I am trying to understand, really trying. You are saying your responsible for the weather getting better in NE Penn?
And what would you have to fight inreguards to NE Penn?

[Ladyvi]

some very nasty beings... slowly yes . the weather has been recovering to its normal state. as the ley lines get repaired .. very slowly .. but as far as actual fighting .. some very nasty beings. it isnt uncommon for me to wake up with nasty bruises that my SO has to patch me up. the astral events i go on are very real and since i tend to bilocate. a part of my physical self goes as well.

now recently my SO has been taking on most of my duties. not that he didnt understand before of the severity and frequency now he does understand why im pretty much tired often. i remember one where there was a castle and we had to get in it. after plowing through a number of lower demons and fiends. the castle had no draw bridge or opening .. one fairly large burst of power and instant doorway. woke up with a very bad headache..

one that i lost on. went up against prejudice.. on this level. it is just an emotion. out of phase on and on an etherial level . he is very much a nasty demon. fed very well these days .. i came back pretty battered and bruised.

i was not happy.

[Shanti]

some very nasty beings... slowly yes . the weather has been recovering to its normal state. as the ley lines get repaired .. very slowly .. but as far as actual fighting .. some very nasty beings. it isnt uncommon for me to wake up with nasty bruises that my SO has to patch me up. the astral events i go on are very real and since i tend to bilocate. a part of my physical self goes as well.

now recently my SO has been taking on most of my duties. not that he didnt understand before of the severity and frequency now he does understand why im pretty much tired often. i remember one where there was a castle and we had to get in it. after plowing through a number of lower demons and fiends. the castle had no draw bridge or opening .. one fairly large burst of power and instant doorway. woke up with a very bad headache..

one that i lost on. went up against prejudice.. on this level. it is just an emotion. out of phase on and on an etherial level . he is very much a nasty demon. fed very well these days .. i came back pretty battered and bruised.

i was not happy. I am so sorry to ask questions but I have no hope of understanding unless I ask.

Why do you have to be a guardian for NE Penn, from these beings you battle? What do these beings want with NE Penn State?

And you said Slowly yes, is this yes your are chamging the weather patterns?

Also if you move to another state do you stay a guardian for NE Penn or do you change your guardian status?

[Nighthawk]

Ummm, wow.. You have the most interesting life I have ever come across, Ladyvi.. I wish mine were not so boring..oh well

[WolfMoon]

LadyVi, I think I get it. While you live in NE Penn, you tend to the energies of that area. Should you move elsewhere, you would take on the responsibilities of that area, right?

[Shanti]

Oh wow, to add to my last questions, does every area have a guardian and if so, who sets boundries, is there a possibilty of conflict? My mind is starting to really wonder.

[Ladyvi]

everything interacts with other things . you begin healing people . healing the land and the ley lines . slowly things happen . the weather is a huge indicator of something wrong or something going right .. im well intuned with the weather and by watching and sometimes lending a hand to weather . i know how things are doing.

as far as these beings.. same thing they want anywhere else.. discord and chaos.. now chaos magick in itself isnt bad and a certain amount of chaos is healthy.

dont worry about the questions. guardian is part of who i am. its not a badge of office..

exactly .. if in the case that i am to move. which im sure it will be a move of the gods. where ever it is i go . i will set up shop . per say :)

and not every area has a guardian. guardians are not common. not the type im talking about. very much a spiritual warrior.

[Ladyvi]

as far as others ? .. havnt bumbed into any close . as far as i understand their areas are usually confined within a 50 to 100 mile radius of where they reside. i never had a conflict with another guardian. i do enjoy recognizing guardian in someone and guiding them to that realization. guardians walk a path that is very much not one i recommend to most. exciting? .. it can be interesting.. it also can be scary and dangerous for the mind.

[Shanti]

Well what happens to NE Penn if you were meant to go to anouther location?

How do you balance being a guardian for NE Penn and being a Dragon guardian? That must be a tremendous amount of stress?

Weather for whatever reasons is very diverse. Do you know when to alow it to go bad, like having times of drought?
With all this responsibility I would imagine you must have to deside when to interfere with the weather and when to let it run a course? Yes?

[Ladyvi]

dragons are not hard . they pretty much can fly and/or have some mode of transpotation . they go with.

ne penn would probably have troubles again once i left with no one to understand how to manage the energies here.

if the gods decree i go .. i will go. ~shruggs~.

if more knew and understood how to manage energies and nuture and protect where they are especially their own home. then i wouldnt have to.

things occur as it is necessary. its like the land itself is sustaining me. once i leave . things may go haywire.

[Ladyvi]

when to interfere with anything much less the weather.

example . the hurricane last year that threatened to come as far north as up where i live. i looked at that hurricane . it was so beautiful . i wanted to play in it so much. my SO said . dont mess with it .. i left it alone . i very well could have dragged it closer to me as it only hit a bit south of me.

example .. hunter entires a major metropolitan. a huge unexplainable series of crimes of all sorts begin to occur. even unexplainable diseases. a hunter by the way is one that feeds on souls. worse than a psy vamp. the hunter got bad enough to warrant action.. hunter went bye bye . wont explain how.

[Shanti]

when to interfere with anything much less the weather.

example . the hurricane last year that threatened to come as far north as up where i live. i looked at that hurricane . it was so beautiful . i wanted to play in it so much. my SO said . dont mess with it .. i left it alone . i very well could have dragged it closer to me as it only hit a bit south of me.

example .. hunter entires a major metropolitan. a huge unexplainable series of crimes of all sorts begin to occur. even unexplainable diseases. a hunter by the way is one that feeds on souls. worse than a psy vamp. the hunter got bad enough to warrant action.. hunter went bye bye . wont explain how.
You made me think of the sars outbreak. So do you think a 'hunter' caused that? I take it China doesnt have a guardian like you over there?

From what I gather, if major stuff occurs, then guardians are not there or are not interferring.

Would you stop a tornado if it came toward you? I heard the penn state had some pretty nasty ones yesterday.

[Ladyvi]

hard to say . the country itself rejects its own heritage .. the guardians may have been driven out. very much possible. like the buddhist and the dahli lama. driven out of an extremist that doesnt believe in its own heritage. ~ shruggs with hands out ~

most of the major stuff went around me. and most of my area .. the tornadoes as i understand landed southeast of me. getting some good rain . but not the stormy destructive type.

i can direct lightning.

[Earthy]

Wow.That is really interesting stuff.
I would love to be able to look after the area where i live,but the thought of demons etc scares me.But protecting my part of the world..wow.
I have so much respect for someone who is called to do that.

[Shanti]

I dont remember the dahla lama ever saying he was a guardian and he is not chinese.
Wouldnt a guardian be a personal thing not dictated by the people?
Your a guardian of NE Penn but I doubt the people asked for that or even know about it.

[Ladyvi]

the dahli lama is more than a guardian . and there maybe guardians among the buddhist . guardian isnt what you are .. its who you are . its ingrained within your soul. i have been in battle for ages . eons. been fighting longer than i care to. only the gods know how tired and weary i am. imagine a bloody field. blood stained green/white/silver garmets. breathing hard. the look of weariness upon the face as it looks upon the wreckage in his/her wake.

and yes i have male and female. mostly male.

it is intergrated so much within my soul. to deny ones 'heritage' is to lay stagnant and in stalemate.

[Shanti]

the dahli lama is more than a guardian . and there maybe guardians among the buddhist . guardian isnt what you are .. its who you are . its ingrained within your soul. i have been in battle for ages . eons. been fighting longer than i care to. only the gods know how tired and weary i am. imagine a bloody field. blood stained green/white/silver garmets. breathing hard. the look of weariness upon the face as it looks upon the wreckage in his/her wake.

and yes i have male and female. mostly male.

it is intergrated so much within my soul. to deny ones 'heritage' is to lay stagnant and in stalemate.
If the Dahli Lama doesnt make the claims you say than how can you make thoughs claims for him?

By you being a guardian for NE Penn, isnt there the chance you could be interferring with anothers work? Perhaps you stop a demond that was for some one else to battle in their work?

How do you know what the weather should be or which demonds to stop?
Balance cant exsist without chaos, so how do you know which should be when?

[Nighthawk]

Well, this thread is getting activity...so good. You know, our own Cappy has met the Dali lama...in person...I wonder if we should invite her here?

[Shanti]

Well, this thread is getting activity...so good. You know, our own Cappy has met the Dali lama...in person...I wonder if we should invite her here?
I have one of his books. I love the way he makes you think about your own perspectives and self. And the calm I feel when I read his words is wonderful.

[Earthy]

I've got some of his books on my wish list,he makes me feel calm too when i read what he's written.

[Ladyvi]

i didnt say the dahli lama was guardian.. i said that the guardians had been driven out as well as the dahli lama.. he holds the spiritual heritage of his people. as well as eons of collective information. a guardian is more than just a warrior anyhow.

i shared part of who i am .. it is a risk i took. doesnt matter if you believe or not. i provided the sight to those that wished more information.

[Deranged Hermit]

I think I understand what you're saying about the Dali Lama. He was driven out of his homeland by those who feared goodness and truth. Are you saying that Guardians may be driven out of various areas for much the same reason?

[Ladyvi]

out of ignorance.. perhaps so.. worse things have been done out of fear, ignorance, greed, power, control.

[Shanti]

i didnt say the dahli lama was guardian.. i said that the guardians had been driven out as well as the dahli lama.. he holds the spiritual heritage of his people. as well as eons of collective information. a guardian is more than just a warrior anyhow.

i shared part of who i am .. it is a risk i took. doesnt matter if you believe or not. i provided the sight to those that wished more information.
Thank you for the clariety Ladyvi. I misinterpeted do to the way the words played out through my head and the way the were layed out in your post. I understand. Thank you. :)

[Shanti]

out of ignorance.. perhaps so.. worse things have been done out of fear, ignorance, greed, power, control.
Agreed, 100% :)

[Starbaby]

Hi.. I have some info on Sweat Lodges, Pipe Ceremonies and a website, if anyone would like for me to post it?? It was sent to me by a friend in Texas that has walked the path for quite some time. She has her own teacher, that is a Certified Shaman. Let me know and I will dig the info up.

[Shanti]

My Shaman friend has never called himself Shaman and I never asked why. He has always said that he is an elder, teacher, medicine man.

I was just reading about the term shaman. Its roots are in the east. Native Americans tradititonally do not use that term. Now I understand my friend. I thought it was just his preferrance and now I know its not a Native American term!

I also read that the roots of Sibieran shamanism is in animism, which I found very interesting. The Ancient Siberian Shaman also always wore a costum that represtented the spirit guide that was helping him with his/her present task.

I looked at many shaman dress from old culture and found they often were extrememly elaborate.

Among the Palaeo-Siberians, woman were more often shamans than man because it was believed that the woman is by nature a shaman.

Also women were commonly shamans in other eastern cultures including the cultures of Ancient Europe.

[Grace]

Shanti
You are right.. They are elders, wise , but not all elders are shamans but in the States because of the other influence that term got picked up here..How many would understand elder vs how many would understand shaman? I like shamanelder
The truth is that the whole concept of having an elder is getting lost..
I saw the other day about being a certified Shaman and I thought what is that

[Shanti]

Shanti
You are right.. They are elders, wise , but not all elders are shamans but in the States because of the other influence that term got picked up here..How many would understand elder vs how many would understand shaman? I like shamanelder
The truth is that the whole concept of having an elder is getting lost..
I saw the other day about being a certified Shaman and I thought what is that
Yes I thought the same. I think the need for certification in matters as this stems from modern days cultural need for proof on paper which often can deteriorate the purposes of some things. Many people over time find ways to obtain papers without really being who the paper says and many give the papers for the goal of money. Comercialism spills into many faucets of modern life. This is just my view, not everyones.

Terminology gets confusing in that it becomes so incorperated into our minds. I think that is where a lot of mis-understanding stems from. I have heard people say you can not be shaman unless you are a Native American, or have some native blood. But the term is not even Native American and the art that is shamanism expands the globe since ancient time.

Many books on Shamanism today have pictures of a Native American on the cover. I have seen several in new age stores, that is misleading and I feel part of the communication problem.

My step mother and father both were full bloods and always referred to there spiritual leader of their tribes as elders.

I myself did not start using terminology to discribe me path until I came here because it is easier to use a term than a paragraph. :)

[Nighthawk]

Ahhhh, yes..true... but so many people balk at 'Medicine man' and do not understand 'Elder'.So, the ame Shaman has been used so much..I personally like 'Medicine Man' for I have sat at the feet of some...

[Branwyn]

Ahhhh, yes..true... but so many people balk at 'Medicine man' and do not understand 'Elder'.So, the ame Shaman has been used so much..I personally like 'Medicine Man' for I have sat at the feet of some...


I was taught "Medicine Man/Woman", "Holy Person" and "Elder".

Branwyn

[Nighthawk]

Very good... I have never been totally comfortable with Shaman.. just because of my area of study and all, but that is just me.

[Gala]

I like Medicine Man... NH.. It fits you. :)

[Shanti]

Very good... I have never been totally comfortable with Shaman.. just because of my area of study and all, but that is just me.
And for me the term works well because I'm not Native American and my blood lines are perrsian and russian and african and other stuff from the other half of the globe and my belief system is one that covers mostly cultures from the other side of the world and some from here.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

I love this. I am Shaman, I work with a medicine man and we share many of the same views and yet our belief patterns where formed from totally differant cultural views!!!! :) Thats is so cool!

And to think, for me, it all started when I was a tiny tike and a Native American friend said to me, "We all follow the beat of our own drum".

[Nighthawk]

When ones have an open mind, much can be accomplished. They tend to look and the similarities and laugh, rather than the differences and scoff.

[Shanti]

When ones have an open mind, much can be accomplished. They tend to look and the similarities and laugh, rather than the differences and scoff.
SO SO SO True!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

And some great friendships can be born in the prccess!! :)

[Nighthawk]

Absolutely!!!!! For it is in the acceptance and understanding and sharing that a frienship or a love bond is born.

[Ladyvi]

in my experience. shaman is a matter of the course.. medicine man is a matter of what is. sorry for being oblique but best i can come up with.

[Nighthawk]

Not sure I really get that.. perhaps Medicine man studies nature and what is... Shaman studies and changes things?????

[Shanti]

Not sure I really get that.. perhaps Medicine man studies nature and what is... Shaman studies and changes things????? Well NH from all the reading I have done, the words are interchangable. As the practises are basically the same: Shifting the consciousness to enter the spirit world for info and guidence for whatever reason. That is what basically the two practises are and they way and for why's are what may varie.

[Nighthawk]

True from my POV.. I was trying to decipher Ladyvi's take on it....

[Branwyn]

Very good... I have never been totally comfortable with Shaman.. just because of my area of study and all, but that is just me.


Besides NA beliefs, I've also studied Mongolian Shamanism, and Inka Shamanism, so I don't have a problem with the term "Shaman". However, I never use it in relation to NA belief systems.

Seems to me, if they wanted to be called "shamen", they'd have used that title themselves :).

Branwyn

[Nighthawk]

True... but people seem to accept Shaman... and not accept Medicine Man and whatever

[Shanti]

Besides NA beliefs, I've also studied Mongolian Shamanism, and Inka Shamanism, so I don't have a problem with the term "Shaman". However, I never use it in relation to NA belief systems.

Seems to me, if they wanted to be called "shamen", they'd have used that title themselves :).

Branwyn
Thats why I dont call my Native American friend/counsle, shaman. He says Elder and his clan says Elder and he said I should call him by his first name!!! LOL

But I refer to him as Shaman to other people because they know from that term what it is he does.

Many people I noticed think that Elder just means old or head of a tribe.

[Nighthawk]

I agree, Shanti... I want to meet this man sometime... I really need to go there...

[Ladyvi]

to me. medicine man is something your born into . its what is part of you . shamanism is a matter of course meaning its studied its practiced. anyone can practice some form in part or all of shamanism. not everyone can be a medicine man.

[Shanti]

to me. medicine man is something your born into . its what is part of you . shamanism is a matter of course meaning its studied its practiced. anyone can practice some form in part or all of shamanism. not everyone can be a medicine man. Actually medicine men can be born onto it or appretice for it. It varies with the individuals and tribes and clans.

And Shaman can be born into it, appreticed or a NDE.
Which a NDE could also make a person a medicine man too in some clans.

The two are basically the same just methods very. Thats what makes it amazing.

[Ladyvi]

thats not what i meant but not going to argue. ~ shakes head~

[Shanti]

thats not what i meant but not going to argue. ~ shakes head~
I am not trying to argue. Thats just the jist of it.

[Nighthawk]

I am not sure I understand the question.. of whether or not one can be chosen to be a Medicine man or not?? Yes, one can. I have seen it. I would imagine in some tribes you must be born into it..Northwest do not hold that.. But, if I missed it completely, let me know
Gala, thank you.. I think it fits what I do.. for I am a healer..

[Kyoht]

I do follow the path of the Shaman, but I would not call my beliefs "Native." Shamanism as a belief system is comprised of all the universal beliefs that occur in the Shamanic societies on Earth. I love this path for it's personal discipline, and teachings of equality in all living things.

I would be very happy to discuss this further with people. We should start threads on different aspects on Shamanism to make discussion more organized and easier.

[Grace]

Shaman is a word that comes from Siberia and has been adopted into our
general vocabulary. The term may mean different things to different people.

I think it would be interesting to see how different people s view the responsibilities of the shaman

The term may mean different things to different people,
but what I generally mean when I speak of a Celtic Shaman is a person of
Celtic descent or tradition who is able to enter Otherworlds and work with
the animals, ancestors and the Shining Folk.
My ancester have been here in the states for so long the Celtic healer or seer
are terms we don't use. I am an American but I think the inherited gifts pop up every once in awhile may skip a generation or two and it is not socially accepted rational behavior
. Except in small circles of groups who still have managed to keep it as part of their culture like the Indians..

[Ladyvi]

shaman has come to be universal for all the sages of every culture.

shamans work with the nature spirits, the animal spirits. the mother, the father. they work with the primal nature of the prime material and the spiritual relm. being about to achieve altered states and see the other realities of the other worlds are fairly common occurences amongst the variosu clans and tribes across the world. it is among my first path workings along with druidism.

[Nighthawk]

I do follow the path of the Shaman, but I would not call my beliefs "Native." Shamanism as a belief system is comprised of all the universal beliefs that occur in the Shamanic societies on Earth. I love this path for it's personal discipline, and teachings of equality in all living things.

I would be very happy to discuss this further with people. We should start threads on different aspects on Shamanism to make discussion more organized and easier.
H.... please do.... NH

[Grace]

When the new thread is opened , let me know its title.

[Elfa Wylde]

When the new thread is opened , let me know its title.


ME TOO! I started out learning Native American Shamanism, then took a turn in my path that led me on to Celtic shamanism and druidry.

[Nighthawk]

I have asked her when she might start the thread... Did you all see the cool art at her site?

[PAGANFILES]

I'm going to hook onto the last page here with the files I have in the archives. As usual, just ask and we will work out a way to get them to you. Free...no strings. Send me a PM with a e-mail address and I'll attach them.

Nighthawk, I hope you don't mind. If there's a problem I'll delete and post seperately. I just thought the files would fit were so many are asking questions.

Terry

Shamanism
acshamn.zip The academic question of Shamanic studies.
animals.zip Power Animals, by Alernon
cmnlmgk.zip A comment on 4994.
dolphin.zip Dreaming into a dolphins mind.
drgsmgk.zip psychoactives and Magic
ecstacy_postures.zip The nature of Esctatic States.
happyi.zip Ike Kala Makia Manawa Aloha Mana Pono
hunaty.zip A comment on a claim to follow Huna
lifeway_fellowship.zip Statement of Principles and Ehtics of the Lifeway Shamanic Fellowship. (1988)
musick.zip Musick in Rituals-2 files
neoshaman.zip "Real Shamans and Plastic Shamans."
nessmountain.zip 2 files, An Urban Shaman's Apprentice & Family Therapy from Ness Mountain.
overview.zip A FAQ overview of Shamanism
practical_intro.zip A practical introduction to Shamanic studies.
problem.zip A Shaman's problem.
psyact.zip Files on Psychoactives and Magick.
shaman_rede.zip Dragon's Shamanic Rede
shamanic_visions.zip Shamanic Visions by Micheal Ney, 1988
shamansm.zip Shamanism-General Overview
shamnsm.zip Traditions of Shamanism.
spirit_guide.zip Information on seeking a Spirit Guide.
sss.zip Shaman, Saiva & SufiSHAMAN. A study of the evolution of Malay Magic.
tinglit_shaman.zip The Shamanism of the Tinglit People.
upper-lower.zip Upper/Middle/Lower World v. Dreamtime, Nita Byrd & C. Scot Giles
western_shamanism.zip Greek Shamanism & Journeys of Soul, Dean Edwards

Native American Reality And Magick
animal_rights.zip Indian Rights vs. Animal Rights--Two Crows' Thoughts
basket.zip An essay on the Hopi Basket Dance
billrts.zip The Bill of Rights and Native Americans
ecltrad.zip Honorable Eclecticism
frstamd.zip Native Americans and Supreme Court decisions.
ghstdnc.zip Short note on the Ghost Dance.
gynarchi_usa.zip America's Founding Mothers
heyokah.zip Concerning the Heyokah, 1987, T.W. Moore
iwhys.zip "Why Stories" of Native Americans
natamer.zip Native American "wannabes." 2 files
oil.zip "Old Indian Legends" Zitkala-sa
Peru-Mexico.zip The Native myths and religions of Mexico and Peru.
prock.zip Meditations of the Hopi.
SIOUX10.ZIP Myths and Legends of the Sioux, by Marie L. McLaughlin
sntcind.zip Native Americans and their use of the Satanic symbol of the Christian Church
strip_mining.zip Native American Traditional Elders on the subject of strip mining the Earth. (1983)
sunmyth.zip Sun Myth of the North American Indians Lowell, Amy (1920)
trickstertales.zip Manabozho's Adventures--Ojibwa
whitred.zip Native Americans on "Plastic Shamans."
wolf_medicine.zip Medicine Cards...Shamanistic Tarot.

[Ladyvi]

paganfiles.. yeah .. email those to me . i beleive my email is on my profile. ~ blinks at the stagggering amount~

kudos for you .. everytime i go on a search i get a bunch of crap mostly related to rpg. now i like a good roleplay game. but when your looking for something spiritual you dont want a rpg.

[PAGANFILES]

Ladyvi,

I tried to e-mail you via your profile. This is what I got.

"Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help."

Please PM me with your e-mail address and I will get the files to you. In your e-mail, please, tell me which files in which directories reside. I can't remember all the files. If you want them all, we'll have to do it via several e-mails.

Terry

[Ladyvi]

thats strange ? .. i dont even have my fire wall up at the moment .. i will have to have my spouse look at that.. but here it is .. ladyvi22222@yahoo.com. thats all i have for email. if it is a lot of trouble. then dont worry about it. perhaps this can turn into a discussion .. look at this site and lets have a round table discussion type thing.

[PAGANFILES]

thats strange ? .. i dont even have my fire wall up at the moment .. i will have to have my spouse look at that.. but here it is .. ladyvi22222@yahoo.com. thats all i have for email. if it is a lot of trouble. then dont worry about it. perhaps this can turn into a discussion .. look at this site and lets have a round table discussion type thing.

By the time you read this the files should be in your "IN" box.

Terry

[Nighthawk]

Oh, I do not mind.. what is all that?

[PAGANFILES]

Oh, I do not mind.. what is all that?

Ladyvi's Mystic Wicks membership options excluded e-mail messages via her profile.....sorry I had to bring it into the thread.
She's got the Shaman files now.

If you are asking about the list.....It's the archives collection of texts, both short and long, on Shamanism and things Native American, because the two intertwine. The lists are not definitive, but, if someone reads all those files and has a good memory they will have a leg up when discussing or understanding either. I've got more on both. However, I thought I was already pushing it a bit to drop them into your thread.

Couple things I'd like to discuss will probably pop up as threads soon--I reread to make sure I have it right. They'll be on Dreamcatchers and The Calumet.

Terry

[Nighthawk]

Cool, bring it on... and info is for sharing... No problem at all.. besides, I just started the thread.. I do not own or maintain it...

[Dove]

Couple things I'd like to discuss will probably pop up as threads soon--I reread to make sure I have it right. They'll be on Dreamcatchers and The Calumet.
Terry
Ohhhhhh Dream Catchers!! :bouncybob

I was brought up believing in the importance of dreams, And that one should never kill a spider because it embodies the spirit of our honored Elder women relations, who are the weaver’s of the sacred hoops.

I for one, will hope to see a new thread about these wonderful, and extremely practical tools.

[Web_Runner]

I am new to this community and I just wanted to make myself known; hello everyone!

I have just finished reading the history: what a wonderful discussion. I hope I am able to contribute and to learn.

[Dove]

HellooOOOoooo there Web Runner!! :wave:
Welcome to Mystic Wicks!!!

LOL .. It was A LOT of reading then wasn’t it??
But all good stuff!!
I'm hoping that you're planning to leap into thses discussions!!
Well???
Get to leaping .. will ya??
LOL :rotfl:

Brightest Blessings,

[Web_Runner]

*grins* It is a lot, and can be a bit overwhelming, based on the diversity of knowledge. I find that sometimes observation is a greater path to wisdom, so I tend to be tentative, and patient.

I have walked a path from birth where Spider has always been with me, in my dreams, in my life, in meditation, when I needed her most both in warning and for understanding ands many, many other aspects I don't pretend to understand.

However I have found few (until these past few years) that have been able to explain or aid me in , well, what is going on. Like why I have had a spider with me in my life all this time! So now, simply, I seek that which will aid me on this path, and I am embracing what I am rather than what I wish to be. And I have found people that have been very helpful, that have, in fact, told me about this community.

I have a practiced other ways, but I found my abilities and experiences were different enough that those ways were not for me.

So, for right now, I am both learning, and unlearning. I believe one's spirit has the natural understanding of its connection to both the physical and what has been called the Invisible World by some in my background. What I have read, and what has been taught me from the ones that follow this path, resonate so deeply with me that I feel this is where I must belong.

And the funny thing is, I am not sure I am making any sense.

But I am OK with that.

[Ladyvi]

wecome web runner (((((((()))))))) :)

spiders.. glorious creatures.. the weavers of the spirit world. holders of myseries. both protective and deadly. many and enigma was the spider.

[Nighthawk]

Hello webrunner... Ladyvi, I caught all but the last sentance.. "Many and enigma was the spider" .. Umm, can you explain that?

[Gala]

Hello webrunner... Ladyvi, I caught all but the last sentance.. "Many and enigma was the spider" .. Umm, can you explain that?

Is it a typo.. many an enigma was the spider??? that makes sense.

[Nighthawk]

Okay... now I understand that.. thank you!!!

[Ladyvi]

yeah . just as a matter of course. typonese is more prevalent when hasnt felt well.

just got out of the hospital. very very serious urinal infection . bladder kidneys whole tact. on antibiotics till the end of the pregnancy. my appearance on the boards and various threads maybe sporadic.

[Nighthawk]

Typonese... he he.. Sorry you have not been well. I would hope you are receiving the best of care, and we will be here when you get back to full power.

[mothwench]

hello shamans! :kooky:
i posted a question in magic and rituals a while ago, concerning soul retrieval, and specifically the history of the practice. there haven't been many responses so far, so maybe one of you can shed some light on the issue?
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=66936&page=1&pp=10

[Teresa]

* wanders in quietly *Hope You don't mind my reading and lurking.Iam drawn to this .

[WolfMoon]

* wanders in quietly *Hope You don't mind my reading and lurking.Iam drawn to this .

We don't mind at all! :) Granted, this thread's been very quiet as of late.

[Nighthawk]

Very quiet indeed.

[Shanti]

Time to come contemplate perhaps for a while?

[SylvanFae]

Hi all! I'm a hedge witch - a path that incorporates shamanism... and may be just be a newer (albeit ancient still) title for a shaman. :) Shamanism feels so familiar to me, that I'm almost sure I've been a shaman before. It's like remembering rather than learning.

I've relied on myself, books, and info sought online to learn shamanism. Hedge witches tend to be terribly independent ;) so while I'd love to study with a teacher, I don't want to be limited to one tradition or way of doing things. So I suppose the spirits will be my teachers. :)

I just bought the book, "Soul Retrieval" by Sandra Ingerman. Unfortunately, she writes for an audience that is merely curious about the practice, not those seeking to perform it. But it is valuable info. I'd love to talk to someone who has done any amount of soul retrieval, or even just anyone with journeying experience or anyone studying shamanism.

Thanks and Namaste

[Shanti]

Hi all! I'm a hedge witch - a path that incorporates shamanism... and may be just be a newer (albeit ancient still) title for a shaman. :) Shamanism feels so familiar to me, that I'm almost sure I've been a shaman before. It's like remembering rather than learning.

I've relied on myself, books, and info sought online to learn shamanism. Hedge witches tend to be terribly independent ;) so while I'd love to study with a teacher, I don't want to be limited to one tradition or way of doing things. So I suppose the spirits will be my teachers. :)

I just bought the book, "Soul Retrieval" by Sandra Ingerman. Unfortunately, she writes for an audience that is merely curious about the practice, not those seeking to perform it. But it is valuable info. I'd love to talk to someone who has done any amount of soul retrieval, or even just anyone with journeying experience or anyone studying shamanism.

Thanks and NamasteI have done what you speak. Just drop me a PM if you'd like!! :)

[Wolfscout1]

I have been reading this thread slowly but surely.

Bout time i posted to it i suppose, timing feels right.

Would be happy to hear from others.

[Koyote Song]

I'm an old poster with new questions. Hope to get this thread going agian...

Is shamanism a religion?

What would be the beleifs and practices of a Shamanistic religion?

What, if any, title can be given to a person that follows/practices shamanism?

Just curious about what folks think out there.

[shalmazar_v]

Hmmm......Seems I found the thread I was looking for. Although I hesitate to put a label on myself, I find my existence to be in the likeness of a Shaman. I also practice a certain amount of Alchemy too. I am pretty new here, so I need to do a little catching up on this thread. I'll be sure to post when I am ready.

[omar]

Hmmm......Seems I found the thread I was looking for. Although I hesitate to put a label on myself, I find my existence to be in the likeness of a Shaman. I also practice a certain amount of Alchemy too. I am pretty new here, so I need to do a little catching up on this thread. I'll be sure to post when I am ready.
I have heard of alchemy,but what is it?

[shalmazar_v]

I have heard of alchemy,but what is it?
Hi omar! I'll try to answer your question as best I can. Alchemy is both a physical and/or spiritual path. Ancient alchemists were purifiers of metals. Meaning they usually would take lesser metals(more notably lead), and purify it into gold. These people usually studied in the area of chemistry, dating back to the time of ancient Egypt(and perhaps further). But what I do is practice spiritual alchemy, which raises the vibration of the people they deal with. The scale I use is this: The lowest vibration is one(which means that the spirit is kept "closed" so to speak, and is all but dead), the highest seven(which means that the spirit is in tune with the body and with the Creator). Basically, I would help someone who has a low vibration(lead), and help them vibrate at a higher level(gold). That is how physical alchemy relates to spiritual alchemy.

[Wolfscout1]

Koyote Song
Is shamanism a religion?
I don't think it's a religion unto it's self. But it can be within other religions is how i view it. its more like methodology.

What would be the beleifs and practices of a Shamanistic religion?
Almost need a book to answer that one.

What, if any, title can be given to a person that follows/practices shamanism?
most common useage is the word " shaman " without all the technicalities. Within shaman you could say they are the clergy, the healers, the protectors, witchdoctors and medicine men would be next closest positions imo Many other words other people use to describe what is done but some are , well, unrealistic at best. again imo

[ShamanFeather]

Ok I just walked into this discussion and although I'd love to read it all I don't have the time at the moment. I know tons of good books on Shamanism and I know someone mentioned there seems to be tons of flavors of shamanism out there.
With the "new age" indeed the term seems to have taken a swing to different meanings. Originally the term shaman was a russion term. I have been told that many Native Americans will get upset with using the term shaman and instead medicine person should be used and yet I have also heard some Native Americans use the term. I was hesitent and still hestitent to use my name Shaman Feather due to me not wanting to offend anyone.

Shamanism to me is an earth based spirituality. I don't really think that I have heard of any one God refered to other then talking about the Great Mystery, Great Spirit etc.

The parts of my spiritual studies that have made me lean toward using the term shamism as a label is the fact that everything I do is extremely earth based. I have studied animal spirit guides and worked with them for about 10 years, and I have studied and used stone peoples and felt the spirit of the elements and converse with them. It is about being one with nature and feeling the connection of everything around me knowing that all is one. Sometimes when I feel out of place that is a very daunting concept. Shamanism also involves journeying and using dream work to find answers and guidance. It is a very disciplines spirituality, at least to me, where you are forced to face your demons with an emphasis of going within. It is also means to go without and to help people when you can. To me shamanism is holding everything sacred, and to be able to walk in multiple worlds at once, its being able to browse through Walmart and still be listening to your guides and feeling their presence. I use tools just like a lot of other spiritualities, pendulums, tarot cards..But what is most important to me is being connected so i can feel things and use my intuition. My readings dont do squat if I can feel and hear what needs to be said and I cant properly do healings with people if I cant feel and sense the person.

If anyone wants books I can suggest some. I have a rather huge library composed of many types of books, but I don't believe you can learn it from books, its a way of life, all the time a way of actively seeking yourself and also of serving. Psychology, anthropology, sociology, metaphysics, nature, writer, bard, hypnotist, artist, teacher, all I think are parts of being a shaman. I have a poster that has a bunch of virtues, and I sigh as it is hard to try to follow these things when you are challenged or to even know what they mean. Honor for instance...what a concept and so many culturely biased filters to go through.

I don't claim to be a shaman, I can only say why I use the term to describe my path.

In respect,

Shaman Feather

[Teresa]

I am still here and have hopes that the conversations or debates will be revived!

[dreamweaver]

In answer to your questions.

I don't believe shamanism to be a religion.It is a set of very spiritual practices that can be used in most all religions.I believe that religion can best be defined as a set of beliefs,practices,values and teachings of a spiritual teacher or tradition.The religions that shamanism may be found in lack in uniformity,Only the practice of the shaman is similar.

Shamanism as a religion;I would have to agree with Wolfscout on this one.


What one who practices shamanism should be called;I can only speak from what I believe on this.I will not call myself a shaman because in my own opinion I do not fit the strict standards that I have set for myself.I do not belong to a society that recognizes me as being a shaman and what I study is not traditional shamanism.I would have to belong to a culture that does.What I study as well as most today is a shamanically based and related practice that is suitable for use in cultures where traditional shamanism is not a native practice.

[Teresa]

What one who practices shamanism should be called;I can only speak from what I believe on this.I will not call myself a shaman because in my own opinion I do not fit the strict standards that I have set for myself.I do not belong to a society that recognizes me as being a shaman and what I study is not traditional shamanism.I would have to belong to a culture that does.What I study as well as most today is a shamanically based and related practice that is suitable for use in cultures where traditional shamanism is not a native practice.
I do not give my practices a name nor a title.I have a diverse heritage and embrace all aspects of it.Therefore I could never consider myself practicing "Shamanism" as some of my ancestors did.I do not feel I meet the requirements that others did in the past.Although the studies fascinate me and I will continue to learn as much about other cultures versions of Shamanism as possible.

[pathfinder]

ShamanFeather, I have never yet met anyone who believes as I do and feels as I do about things as I have began this journey on my path. As I read your post, though, it was as if I was reading my own self. This might sound incredibly stupid, but even though I do not know you, it is just so very good to have it thrown in my face as fact that I am not alone in my views and opinions and thoughts. I have only just begun my journey down the path of the shaman, two years ago, and am obviously very much interested in anything that has to do with it. But the beliefs and way of life that is described as being "shamanistic" I have had my whole life, despit being raised a christian. I believed in a higer being, what it is, I don't know, but I knew it was not as the christians believed it to be. I have always talked to the tree spirits, to the animal spirits, rocks ect. My parents said that I was crazy because of it. I guess that is the reason I am excited to see this final proof that I am not, (though I thought I knew it all along...weird). I have not yet pursued tarot cards, though they appeal to me. I have been more interested lately in runes, do you work with them? I fear I am being rude, bursting out like an excited child in the midst of everything. I am sorry. I just got excited, because I have been longing and hoping and keeping my eyes and all other senses peeled for anyone anywhere who believes in anything similar to what I do. I really just had to say that, because I was begining to think that I would never bump into anyone. Sorry for rambling.

[frigga]

Haven't been around for a while, but I had some free time today and decided to stop on by! I actually came LOOKING for a post by nighthawk ( or one on native american paths)and found this and I can't help but feel the need to say a thing or two here. I think the definition that Shanti gave earlier in this thread is very important. As I am learning more and more about native beliefs, I am really gaining interest. But just as one can be Cristian without being clergy, one can follow or incorporate native teachings without being a Shaman. So, I guess what I'm wondering here is: Are people saying that Shamanism=Native American traditions? I made that assumtion years ago and was given quite and awakening by the practitioner because she didn't consider herself to follow any native paths at all. Just wondering what thoughts are!

[Wolfscout1]

So, I guess what I'm wondering here is: Are people saying that Shamanism=Native American traditions?

I think it may have nothing to do with Native Americans and everything to do with those Native to Earth.

It's earth /nature based.
it's interdenominational.
its a methodology.
i foen uses the Word Shaman to describe your self you're not delegating a level of competence nor ability.
it's a descriptive word used to describe a method. period.

I'm a Kiddarian Tradition Wiccan Warrior following a Shamanic Path.
isn't that fun? I'm not trying to be demeaning or funny but this is the point of it. it's a word used to describe one's path and methods prefered.

it's not that hard people.

[dreamweaver]

You have it Wolfscout.It;s not that hard.Shaman describes a certain type of practitioner.

[frigga]

I totally agree with both of you. I just found in the begining of this post that people were talking about the two interchangably ( just me maybe)? I have found some assume that I follow a shamantic path when I say I perscribe to certain native teachings, and vice versa. These assumtions are, of course, by those new to paganism and earth based religions in general.

[Teresa]

I do not think that it is a "Native American" thing.I do feel that my up bringing from my grandparents who were "Native American" taught me to respect Nature and a few other lessons along the way which leans me towards "Shamanism"ways.I share the Values and Beliefs from the culture.There are other things from my heritage on the other side which I also embrace.

[Teresa]

I am fascinated with learning how "Shamanism" works or worked in other cultures.This has been what I am exploring at the moment.To see how it relates from one culture to another and so on and so forth.What differences they have as well as likenesses.

[Wolfscout1]

I am fascinated with learning how "Shamanism" works or worked in other cultures.This has been what I am exploring at the moment.To see how it relates from one culture to another and so on and so forth.What differences they have as well as likenesses.

The Foundation For Shamanic Studies (http://www.shamanism.org/) a very good place to go and start for many.