Roman Reconstructionism

[TYRRHENUS]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Roman Reconstructionism.

[Nantonos]

Nova Roma
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/
subtitled Roman Religion in Antiquity and Today a single paragraph on the main page seems to sum up what they are trying to achieve well:

It cannot be approached by inserting Roman deity names into Greek religion, modern Wicca or any other system, for Roman religion is a unique product of the culture that created it. It is a faith that demands steadfastness and devotion to duty. It involves working in harmony with the eternal gods and with universal order, for the benefit not only of ourselves but also the world around us; with right action and attitudes towards the gods, both the State and the individual will prosper. Yet the Religio Romana involves more than pious action and worldly power; there are also Mystery traditions which focus on inner spiritual growth, and these too will be addressed by Nova Roma as we continue to expand and improve our understanding and emulation of our glorious spiritual ancestors.

[Nantonos]

Temple of Religio Romana
http://religioromana.net/

Perhaps more directly practical, this site includes useful links to Ritual Tools, Recipes for Offerings, and Roman Prayers (taken from literature, not reconstructed).

[Nantonos]

RELIGIO ROMANA at ancient worlds
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Group/73546

Since I am a Pontifex there, I can't be trusted with an unbiased opinion :)

[Nantonos]

Ok . . :2G:

So Holly, I was meaning to ask what the Greek means by your name and it occurs to me, since half the Roman empire spoke Greek, maybe its on topic here anyhow?

[TYRRHENUS]

Hey Nantonos. I didn't know you were a Pontifex. I'm a Senator at SVR (http://www.societasviaromana.org/). :)
Vale bene!

[Nantonos]

Hey Nantonos. I didn't know you were a Pontifex.

Well, its only an admin position. But its a good information source.

I'm a Senator at SVR (http://www.societasviaromana.org/). :)
Vale bene!

Cool!

[Nantonos]

Well, its only an admin position. But its a good information source

They think its a little odd that I have a Gaulish name over there, but hey, if we assume mid first century its not so odd. Blood brothers of the Roman Nation and all that ...

[TYRRHENUS]

They think its a little odd that I have a Gaulish name over there, but hey, if we assume mid first century its not so odd.That's why I'm not a member of Nova Roma. They're hardcore.
Blood brothers of the Roman Nation and all that ...Hail Rome!

I wonder how many people here are actually interested in the Religio Romana & related reconstructions? Not many I bet.

[mucgwyrt]

:fofftopic
Hands up who thinks the Pontifex Maximus did more to the Vestal Virgins than whipping them :D
:clapping:

[Nantonos]

That's why I'm not a member of Nova Roma. They're hardcore.

Hardcore is fine; hardcore and revisionist is not. Historically there were people who were part of the Roman Empire, had separate treaties with Rome, were accepted as fraternal brothers; who sent Senators to Rome, in some cases became Roman citizens, and did not have Roman style names.

I wonder how many people here are actually interested in the Religio Romana & related reconstructions? Not many I bet.

I am interested in that I want to understand Gallo-Roman religion, which appears to have adopted Roman modes of worship for syncretised deities and indeed for un-assimilated ones. The Romans did not mind which deity was worshipped as long as the form of worship was correct by Roman standards.

[Nantonos]

:fofftopic
Hands up who thinks the Pontifex Maximus did more to the Vestal Virgins than whipping them :D
:clapping:

Well, there was burying them alive but I guess you are not referring to that.

Whats this about whipping? Did it happen often? Was it mutual?

[mucgwyrt]

no, I think it was a 'punishment' from the Pontifex for having naughty rumpy-pumpy or similar :hehehehe:

edit: or it could have been for letting their candles go out, I forget - it was so long ago I did Classic Civ...!

[Nantonos]

edit: or it could have been for letting their candles go out, I forget - it was so long ago I did Classic Civ...!

I am so not going there (any further there) in the interests of keeping this 'PG13' (which I gather is a film rating in the USA meaning ok for 13 year olds with parental consent? Or something?)

[TYRRHENUS]

SALVETE OMNES, S.V.B.E.V.

Does anybody know what the heck is going on at NR? Someone (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/message/6918) has been removed from her position as Sacerdos Matris Deorum Magnę and has been given a lifetime ban on ever holding public office. Supposedly without a trial! Also, reading the threads at the Yahoo group the last few weeks I noticed several citizens resigning from a number of posts.
I would send an e-mail addressing my concern, but I suppose this is a matter for their sodales to resolve. I would just hate to see the organization go as it is the oldest RR group online.

VALETE BENE,
L. TYRRHENVS GARRVLVS SENATOR ĘDILISQVE SOCIETATIS VIĘ ROMANĘ

[Nantonos]

SALVETE OMNES, S.V.B.E.V.

Does anybody know what the heck is going on at NR? Someone (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/message/6918) has been removed from her position as Sacerdos Matris Deorum Magnę and has been given a lifetime ban on ever holding public office. Supposedly without a trial!

She seems to have put (reasonable, to me) up her arguments that this was unconstitutional and historically inaccurate. Skimming the threads, it smells very political, so the true story is unlikely to be found in public emails. Have you mailed her privately?

I would send an e-mail addressing my concern, but I suppose this is a matter for their sodales to resolve. I would just hate to see the organization go as it is the oldest RR group online.

Probably a good thing to do anyway, if you are concerned.

Incidentally I did come across this perceptive posting, very interesting, about the issues in re-establishing a RR:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/message/6942

[TYRRHENUS]

SALVETE OMNES, S.V.B.E.V.

I just saw a movie, Spartacus, on the History Channel. Not the original with Kirk Douglas but a relatively new one. Unfortunately, I didn't recognize any of the actors.
It was pretty good. There was one line which was kind of lame, something like... "no, we shall have equality of the sexes," or some such nonsense. That turned me off. But it did an excellent job depicting Crassus as the real hero - merely given an ovation while Pompey undeservedly received a triumph.

Someone should really make a movie showing Rome's transition from Republic to Empire. They could start with the Gracchi, the Servile Wars, Sulla's dictatorship, Crassus, Caesar and Pompey forming the first Triumvirate, etc. Which is so very applicable today since we are giving more and more authority to a smaller and smaller number.
Such a movie would probably have to be a miniseries though.

VALETE BENE,
L. TYRRHENVS GARRVLVS SENATOR ĘDILISQVE SOCIETATIS VIĘ ROMANĘ

[Kern]

Salvete All!
Any one catching the HBO series ROME?
What are your thoughts?

[TYRRHENUS]

Salvete omnes.
I'd also like to hear what people think. I haven't had the chance and am wondering if it's any good. "Rome Week" on the History Channel was disappointing to say the least.

[Kern]

Salvete TYRRHENUS.
I am watching it,to me its pretty good..there are some things that happens in the series that didnt actually take place from a Historical point of view,but everything that happens,like the way they dressed,ate,and conducted their day to day lives are taken from factual things and from archeological findings.

Vale!
Kern

[Kern]

Bump :fpeek:

[Kern]

For those interested in the series Rome check this link Out:
http://www.archaeology.org/online/reviews/hborome/index.html (http://www.archaeology.org/online/reviews/hborome/index.html)

[Nantonos]

Primary sources are a core part of Roman Recon. I recently found out that the search engine EDH has an English user interface, which is handy for those (like me) who don't read german well and found the previous, German only, interface a bit harder to use.

http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/institute/sonst/adw/edh/index.html.en

You can search on deity names, for instance, remembering of course to put them in the dative.

[Kern]

Salvete Omnes!

Looks like this thread died..

[Kern]

To bad we cant get a teacher that is well learned in the Religio Romana,so that we could have a Class on it..

[KiNoRonin]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Roman Reconstructionism.


Why would anyone want to Reconstruct Rome!!!

That was the First Society in the History of Humanity that Persecuted the Celtic Pagans of Gaul, Briton, and Germany, which then led the way to the Christian Inquisitions during the Dark Ages.


Reconstructing a Society like the Romans would be a step back instead of a Step Forward toward my Wish to have Trees, Plants and Nature declared as the objects which all of Humanity should Venarate instead of Ourselves.

KNR

[Grimr]

Why would anyone want to Reconstruct Rome!!!

That was the First Society in the History of Humanity that Persecuted the Celtic Pagans of Gaul, Briton, and Germany, which then led the way to the Christian Inquisitions during the Dark Ages.


Reconstructing a Society like the Romans would be a step back instead of a Step Forward toward my Wish to have Trees, Plants and Nature declared as the objects which all of Humanity should Venarate instead of Ourselves.

KNR

Early Rome was not so bad.

It was Rome in late antiquity that got out of spiritual touch with itself.

[Grimr]

I follow Greek paganism and not Roman.


My particular branch is a little bit different from what you may have heard of in ancient Greece.

[Philosophia]

Why would anyone want to Reconstruct Rome!!!
That was the First Society in the History of Humanity that Persecuted the Celtic Pagans of Gaul, Briton, and Germany, which then led the way to the Christian Inquisitions during the Dark Ages.
Reconstructing a Society like the Romans would be a step back instead of a Step Forward toward my Wish to have Trees, Plants and Nature declared as the objects which all of Humanity should Venarate instead of Ourselves.
KNR

It was also the society that created inventions that significantly improved our lives.

[David19]

I follow Greek paganism and not Roman.


My particular branch is a little bit different from what you may have heard of in ancient Greece.

I'm also interested in Hellenic Reconstructionism, and am reading up on it (and others), do you mind saying how your approach differs?.

Thanks :).

[Grimr]

I'm also interested in Hellenic Reconstructionism, and am reading up on it (and others), do you mind saying how your approach differs?.

Thanks :).

Alot of the ancient Greeks worshiped Zeus as the ruler of all Gods and men.

My tradition and beliefs however differ , because in my belief it is Gaia or Euryome that is the ruler of Gods and men as the great Goddess.

Gaia,Eurynome,Ge,Demeter, for she has many names.

She was one of the first Gods to come into existence and from her came the titans and even Zeus himself.

From the primordial waters it was her and Ophion the cosmic serpent that created the world.

It is also my opinion that the mother Goddess is not just a Goddess of the earth , but since she created the earth she is obviously a creator Goddess of the cosmos and universe.

I am more into the Pelasgian system.

Also I feel more of a closer bond to the ancient Spartans vs. Athenians, Corinthians and so on.


Infact my highest ideal of a civilization would be Sparta.

[Gwydion000]

Roman Reconstructionism focuses much on the spirituality of Roman Civilization, not merely on its physical and historical achievements, and certainly not on negative aspects of their history, which even then doesn't speak for all Romans. Actually the Romans were very intelligent, civilized people most of the time. They seem to have greatly respected foreign nations including the Celtic peoples, it wasn't always war between the two, there was peace too.

Every old nation had negative aspects to it. I'm a Brythonic recon myself but as much as I like them I must also admit the Celts were not perfect, but no one is right? Remember now the Gauls did sack Rome for gold and held her for months before leaving. They nearly blew her out of existence, but I'm glad they didn't in the end.

[David19]

BUMP.

Are there any Roman recons about?.

Anyone know what happened to the ones that were here?.

[Philosophia]

I don't know whether I can call myself one but I definitely do have a strong Roman reconstuctionism with my path.

[Son of Goddess]

Roman Recon, reporting for duty! :wave:

Just thought I'd stop in a say hello!

[Theres]

Are there any Roman recons about?.

Anyone know what happened to the ones that were here?.
the barbarian hoards got them... spray painted their aquaducts and broke all their pottery!

[David19]

Roman Recon, reporting for duty! :wave:

Just thought I'd stop in a say hello!

Hey, nice to meet you :welcome:.

[Son of Goddess]

Nice to meet you as well!

[David19]

Nice to meet you as well!

I've got a question, do you know if the Roman gods are the same as the Greek ones, as I've heard that they're not really (like Venus, in both mythology and beliefs isn't the same as Aphrodite, neither are Hestia and Vesta, etc).

Also, what are some good books on the Roman gods?.

Thanks for any help :).

[Twinkle]

It's my opinion that they are not the same. The Romans had a very different view of the gods than the Greeks did...and did not even have mythology until the assimilation of the Greek gods and their mythology.

The Greek deities were assimilated into the Roman Pantheon...creating a whole new set of Roman Deities with similar characteristics, but enough differences to not make the deities interchangeable.

[Philosophia]

I've got a question, do you know if the Roman gods are the same as the Greek ones, as I've heard that they're not really (like Venus, in both mythology and beliefs isn't the same as Aphrodite, neither are Hestia and Vesta, etc).

Nope, not the same. They had similar characteristics but they weren't the same. Here is a good article about it: Greek vs Roman Mythology (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/19648/greek_vs_roman_mythology.html)

[Son of Goddess]

TWINKLE!!!! Twinkle from M-n-M??? HEY!!!!!!!!!

Its me, Titus!

[Son of Goddess]

[QUOTE=David19;3239249]I've got a question, do you know if the Roman gods are the same as the Greek ones, as I've heard that they're not really (like Venus, in both mythology and beliefs isn't the same as Aphrodite, neither are Hestia and Vesta, etc).

Also, what are some good books on the Roman gods?.[QUOTE]

Twinkle said it well. My view is that the Roman Dii Consentes and the Greek Olympians are two different cultural views of the same Divine Immortal. I justify this via the Interpretatio Romana, which literally means "Roman translation".

Ritually speaking, I think it is incorrect to invoke Zeus in a Roman ritual and vice versa of Jupiter in a Hellenic ritual.

Robert Turcan's Gods of Ancient Rome and Cults of the Roman Empire are excellent. Mary Beard's Roman Religion: Volume I and Volume II are also great resources.

[Twinkle]

TWINKLE!!!! Twinkle from M-n-M??? HEY!!!!!!!!!

Its me, Titus!

I know...goofball. *Grins*

[Son of Goddess]

I know...goofball. *Grins*

LOL, I get excited easily.:hehehehe:

[David19]

It's my opinion that they are not the same. The Romans had a very different view of the gods than the Greeks did...and did not even have mythology until the assimilation of the Greek gods and their mythology.

The Greek deities were assimilated into the Roman Pantheon...creating a whole new set of Roman Deities with similar characteristics, but enough differences to not make the deities interchangeable.

Thanks for the reply, and I think I can understand that, I personally would like to read more about the Roman deities, but everything seems to say Jupiter = Zeus, Juno = Hera, Venus = Aphrodite, etc.

One of the things I've read in one book called 'Ancient Rome' by Nigel Rodgers is that Jupiter had bosses called the superiores, the hidden superior gods, as far as I know, Zeus didn't have any bosses like that.

[David19]

Nope, not the same. They had similar characteristics but they weren't the same. Here is a good article about it: Greek vs Roman Mythology (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/19648/greek_vs_roman_mythology.html)

Thanks for the link :).

[David19]

[QUOTE=David19;3239249]I've got a question, do you know if the Roman gods are the same as the Greek ones, as I've heard that they're not really (like Venus, in both mythology and beliefs isn't the same as Aphrodite, neither are Hestia and Vesta, etc).

Also, what are some good books on the Roman gods?.[QUOTE]

Twinkle said it well. My view is that the Roman Dii Consentes and the Greek Olympians are two different cultural views of the same Divine Immortal. I justify this via the Interpretatio Romana, which literally means "Roman translation".

Ritually speaking, I think it is incorrect to invoke Zeus in a Roman ritual and vice versa of Jupiter in a Hellenic ritual.

Robert Turcan's Gods of Ancient Rome and Cults of the Roman Empire are excellent. Mary Beard's Roman Religion: Volume I and Volume II are also great resources.

Thanks for the book recommendations, I've heard some good things about Turcan's 'Gods of Ancient Rome', do you know if he goes into the Jupiter=Zeus, etc thing?.

[Son of Goddess]

Thanks for the book recommendations, I've heard some good things about Turcan's 'Gods of Ancient Rome', do you know if he goes into the Jupiter=Zeus, etc thing?.

You're welcome.

He doesn't, insofar of what I have read of his works. I know The Gods of Ancient Rome doesn't go into it. And from what I know of, few scholarly books actually venture into the reasons *why* a Roman God and a Greek God are equated. It has been, for years if not decades or centuries, been a simple academic assumption that one is the same as the other.

But I do not believe such similarities should call for the equation of two things. White gold and silver are awefully similar in appearance, but anyone can tell you they are different. The Norns and the Fates are similar, but I haven't found any Asatruar or Cultor Deorum who uses the other cultures deity names.

May I ask why you are interested in Jupiter = Zeus?

I can tell you that A) They both derive from the same Indo-European source Dyaus-Pitar and B) that They share similar functions/powers. However, as the cultures divided and grew up on their own, their views changed and were influenced differently but They [Jupiter/Zeus] did remain with the basic core of who/what They were. Are They the same? I will say no, because one must take into account the ways of worship, the mythology, and "use" of the deity by the culture into truly determining exactly *who* the deity is.

I find that Jupiter and Zeus have two very different feels to Them, as Ares and Mars are very different in nature.

Its kind of the like the relationship with me and my cousin. *allegory time* If you go back, we come from the same source (our shared grandparents). We are similar in age, we have some resemblences in appearance and similar interests. However, we are two very different people.

I hope all that helps, lol.

[Kern]

Any one know where I could find some small god figurines,pretty cheap?

Ive looked on ebay but there prices are to steep for my liking or they dont have what I am looking for.

[Mercedes]

Kind of late replying in this thread but oh well.

You can try Soma Luna (http://www.somaluna.com/cat/roman_statues_greek_statues_etruscan_statuary.asp). That's where I got my Apollo and Mercury statuettes. It might still be out of your budget, but I found SL's prices to be reasonable compared to other sites that sell statues and statuettes.

[Kern]

Kind of late replying in this thread but oh well.

You can try Soma Luna (http://www.somaluna.com/cat/roman_statues_greek_statues_etruscan_statuary.asp). That's where I got my Apollo and Mercury statuettes. It might still be out of your budget, but I found SL's prices to be reasonable compared to other sites that sell statues and statuettes.

Thanks for the link. Yeah at the time the prices are too steep for me. But I'll bookmark the site just incase..