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Mithrea
April 27th, 2004, 08:57 AM
Well, I figured I'd go ahead and start a thread on this, just to see if anyone is interested.

Dianic Wicca is based on the idea that women need sacred space of female-only energy to promote healing and nurturing, especially for women who have suffered physically, spiritually and emotinally at the hands of men. Some women become Dianic because they feel no connection with the God. Others because they feel distracted by male presence in their circle. There are many other reasons, that I won't enumerate here, because I'm sure I don't know them all. Dianic circles and covens are *usually* female only (there are a few rare exceptions) and sometimes they are lesbian only.

For many Dianics, the defining work is Z Budapest's "Holy Book of Women's Mysteries." She is the most prominent figure in the Dianic movement and is probably the most "militant," for lack of a better word.

Another version of Dianic Wicca, a sort of Dianic-lite, is what people would phrase "The Goddess Path." It probably deserves it's own thread as most people walking the Goddess Path would not consider themselves Dianic, but I think the two are very connected and related. There is alot of fear and hatred directed at the word Dianic and so many people would never call themselves by that word. Author's that represent the Goddess Path would include Patricia Monaghan and Elisabeth Brooke.

The most common question that comes up when Dianic Wicca is discussed is the question of balance. It's a tricky question. My blanket answer is that most Dianics I know feel that they spend the majority of their time in male energy since that is what the mundane world focuses on, logic, analysis, action, squashing or supressing creativity, etc. Therefore they need their spiritual quests to involve female energy only in their sacred and magical lives in order to get a balance in the first place. While most people see Dianics as unbalanced, as a Dianic, I can say that I see non Dianics as just as unbalanced as they see me because they spend time in a male only space, but have no female only space (ie, a space that prizes intuition over logic, creativity over conformity, etc.)

I do acknowledge God and I even chat with him and make offerings to him occasionally. Recently I worried that my lack of male energy in my spiritual life was making me less and less able to deal with male energy in the mundane and so I tried to connect with the God. Though I did connect with *a* God, it wasn't long before I see once again that it is not working out. I still feel "judged" by him. Maybe that's just me, but spending most of my life being judged by a male God has made me run like hell when I see that anywhere else.

I have TONS more to say on this subject, but I have to run to the PO so I'll be back to write more later. :)

mucgwyrt
April 27th, 2004, 09:06 AM
Please do, it's very interesting! :D

13thChylde
April 27th, 2004, 08:09 PM
I've wanted to learn more about Dianic Wicca. Thanks for posting, Holly!

NoOrdinaryPrincess
April 27th, 2004, 08:21 PM
I have found "the Goddess Path" to being a very warm, forgiving yet rugged one. One book I reccomend *Ariadne's Thread A Workbook of Goddess Magic" by Shenikha Mountainwater.

I think this is attractive for open minded women, sexually or not, who have come from male dominated faiths and feel a hard time knowing the masculine side of their spirituality. Who says he won't appear sooner or later, but for now, I'm hanging out with the Goddess. :)

MoonDust
April 27th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Honestly I do not see the difference between male or female in this. The Great spirit is sexless to me, but I'm focussing more on the Goddess now. mainly because my upbringing was so male oriented. Though I concider myself eclectic, when I first started on my path and ask the Goddess to apear before me she did so in the form of Diana. Thank you for your informaiton! I'd love to read more!

DebLipp
April 28th, 2004, 01:34 PM
I just want to comment that the term "Dianic Wicca" has been used by a variety of different people. Today, in the 21st Century, most people mean woman-only, Goddess-centric Wicca when they say "Dianic." But Marion Weinstein, in her early books, said her gender-mixed trad was called Dianic because their primary Goddess was Diana. A tradition in Texas that was active in the 70s and early 80s, and may still be active as far as I know, also was gender-mixed and called Dianic.

These various traditions sprung up in the days before the Internet, before the Festival circuit, when different Pagans didn't communicate much with one another, so the disparate use of a single name is not surprising.

I just wanted to point out that if you meet someone who is Dianic but NOT woman-focused, it's not because they're "wrong," it's because the word grew up in different places.

Ben Trismegistus
April 28th, 2004, 03:39 PM
I just wanted to point out that if you meet someone who is Dianic but NOT woman-focused, it's not because they're "wrong," it's because the word grew up in different places.

Additionally, I've met dual-gendered Dianics who recognize a God & and Goddess, but choose to focus primarily on the Goddess, relegating the God to the role of the Consort.

Mithrea
April 29th, 2004, 08:42 AM
Here is a link to a very interesting essay called "Why go Dianic?" by Mama Rose. It's just her specific experience and it in no way represents Dianics as a whole, but there are alot of fascinating ideas in it and if you are interested in Dianic Wicca, it's definitely worth a read. http://www.iit.edu/%7Ephillips/personal/philos/dianic.html

In fact, I should point out that it's subtitled: "A discussion of the role of single-sex covens in one case of sexual abuse." So that should tell you how to take it :)

Haruka2077
April 29th, 2004, 05:40 PM
I followed the Dianic path for about a year because I was having trouble indentifying with other women and with female Dieties and energies. I found a very warm and welcoming Dianic community on-line and I learned so much! One thing I have found with Dianics versus other paths, they tend to be more focused and active on political issues, such as environmentalism and women's rights.
For me, the Dianic path was a stage in my development, but I believe it has a very valuable and nurturing role in the Pagan faiths, and for many people it's a productive path for a lifetime! If you're interested in it, it is well worth your time to check out.

Ari
April 29th, 2004, 08:11 PM
A lot of the responses have focused on the 'healing' aspects of the Dianic trad; I think it's worth pointing out that for a lot of Dianics, the main issue isn't recovery from abuse at the hands of patriarchal society or a sense of being unbalanced. It's just that as women, they don't really get much out of picturing the divine as a bloke ;) For others, it's that they find the sexual dynamics of many mixed-gender Wiccan circles intrusive or are just sick of getting hit on at festivals. Some other common reasons for women joining the tradition include the non-heirachical organisation of most Dianic groups, the trad's inclusion in its rituals of events specific to women's lives such as pregnancy, abortion, menarche and menopause etc, a personal rejection of the idea of male-female polarity (central to what I guess we can call "normal" Wicca) and so on.

Tigerlily
April 29th, 2004, 08:36 PM
I'm not Dianic. But when praying and doing rituals, I usually focus more on Goddess because I feel that I can connect with her better.

But I also believe in God too. I try to like them equally.

Mithrea
April 29th, 2004, 10:55 PM
I swear I'm going to do more than just post links in this thread. I'm just uberbusy at the moment. But here is another good one: http://www.templeofdiana.org/dianic-tradition.htm

There are also many threads here at MW already about this. I'll post links to them when I get a sec :)

SunMoonStarLight
April 29th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Wow, when I read that i started crying......it made me feel ........at peace.......i do not know.I would love to know more about this path. please anyone

grnpuffer
April 30th, 2004, 12:53 AM
I just want to comment that the term "Dianic Wicca" has been used by a variety of different people.

A tradition in Texas that was active in the 70s and early 80s, and may still be active as far as I know, also was gender-mixed and called Dianic.
.

It's very much active and growing.
The tradition is very different from American Dianism- and is strongly Druidic/Celtic in it's symbols and rituals. While the rituals have a strong feminine energy, they include the seasonal/magical balance of the genders. What's really cool about doing the ritual on any particular moon is the knowledge that groups across the US, UK and Europe are doing the exact same ritual on the same night. It adds a bit of psychic OOmph!! to the power. All in all, they are some of the most lovely workings in memory.

Mithrea
April 30th, 2004, 07:56 AM
Wow, when I read that i started crying......it made me feel ........at peace.......i do not know.I would love to know more about this path. please anyone

:hugz:

Are you talking about reading the Mama Rosa article, hon?

Here are some more links:
Feminist Dianic (http://www.witchvox.com/trads/trad_dianic.html)
Two Branches (http://paganvoices.freeservers.com/Pagan%20Voices/Book%20of%20Shadows/Traditions/Dianic%20Wicca%20Overview.htm)
Mixed Gender Dianic (http://www.witchvox.com/trads/trad_mgdianic.html)
The Dianic Tradition? (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=28262&highlight=dianic)
Dianic Wicca (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=29047&highlight=dianic)

dr_zeus440
April 30th, 2004, 08:11 AM
i dont get it, how are logic, analysis, action, and the suppression of creativity characteristics of a environment dominated by "male energy"?

mucgwyrt
April 30th, 2004, 09:13 AM
i dont get it, how are logic, analysis, action, and the suppression of creativity characteristics of a environment dominated by "male energy"?

Males traditionally embody our strong, physical, practical aspects, and women dominate the emotional and spiritual aspects xx

dr_zeus440
April 30th, 2004, 09:59 AM
maybe they do traditionally, but thats got alot more to do with ascribed gender roles than essence or "energy". and also, the title of the first post "dianic / feminist wicca"; feminism is a movement aimed at destroying gender roles, not reinforcing them. i still dont understand how those four things are considered male.

mucgwyrt
April 30th, 2004, 10:20 AM
I disagree; many feminists want their ~own~ gender role torn down, but they themselves are horrendously guilty of discriminating against men; they are sexists, they this, they are that.

I am not dianic, but I personally agree - all the men I know are much more prone to reason and practicalities than the women I know.

Mithrea
April 30th, 2004, 10:32 AM
i dont get it, how are logic, analysis, action, and the suppression of creativity characteristics of a environment dominated by "male energy"?

For a quick start, you could think of the properties of yin and yan. If you want something more indepth, you could consult the writings of Helene Cixous. I'm in no way saying that each individual male out there is not creative and not passive, etc. It's the difference between what we know of patriarchal society which emphasizes empirical knowledge and data and science and tends to discount things you can't see (on the whole, again, I'm not saying *men* do that); and what we imagine matriarchal society would be, and what microcosmal matriarchal groups tend to empahsize.

Think of the difference between the way society expects fathers to act and the way it expects mothers to act. No one here is denying that these ideas aren't heavily steeped in socially constructed gender roles. But just because they are constructed by society, doesn't mean that they aren't heavily ingrained in the psyche. Because of my experiences with the world, I think of male energy as one thing and female energy as something else.

And I will have to respectfully disagree with you that "feminism is a movement aimed at destroying gender roles." The gender roles are there and aren't going anywhere. As a feminist, I only want the choice to play other roles, not get rid of them altogether. It is my belief that the goal of third wave feminism is aimed solely at creating more choices for women. I think it would be foolish to think we can destroy gender roles. I prefer to set achievable goals. Maybe that's just me :p

I hope that helps some. :) I'm fully aware that this doesn't make sense to some people and probably never will. It's based alot on individual life experiences. I find that another sort of misconception people have about Dianic Wiccans is that they want to change the world. They want to change society into this matriarchal utopia ruled by amazons, etc. etc. etc. This is not the case (well not always ;) ). Dianic believers are just as diverse as any other group. For me personally, it's about my own personal predispositions and preferences in sacred space. I'm not trying to convert anyone else to my way of thinking :)

Toad
April 30th, 2004, 10:53 AM
I just want to comment that the term "Dianic Wicca" has been used by a variety of different people. Today, in the 21st Century, most people mean woman-only, Goddess-centric Wicca when they say "Dianic." But Marion Weinstein, in her early books, said her gender-mixed trad was called Dianic because their primary Goddess was Diana. A tradition in Texas that was active in the 70s and early 80s, and may still be active as far as I know, also was gender-mixed and called Dianic.

These various traditions sprung up in the days before the Internet, before the Festival circuit, when different Pagans didn't communicate much with one another, so the disparate use of a single name is not surprising.

I just wanted to point out that if you meet someone who is Dianic but NOT woman-focused, it's not because they're "wrong," it's because the word grew up in different places.

Deb -

A heatfelt thank you for this post. I was always confused about the term 'Dianic' its origins and how its used in varying degrees with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Makes much more sense now.

mucgwyrt
April 30th, 2004, 10:56 AM
well said :)

dr_zeus440
April 30th, 2004, 12:25 PM
thanks for the indepth answer :) its late, so my responses wont be as coherent as they normally would be, but HERE GOES!


For a quick start, you could think of the properties of yin and yan. If you want something more indepth, you could consult the writings of Helene Cixous. I'm in no way saying that each individual male out there is not creative and not passive, etc. It's the difference between what we know of patriarchal society which emphasizes empirical knowledge and data and science and tends to discount things you can't see (on the whole, again, I'm not saying *men* do that); and what we imagine matriarchal society would be, and what microcosmal matriarchal groups tend to empahsize.

hmm, i can see where you are coming from here, but isnt it entirely possible that the correlation between the history of patriarchial dominance and the emphasis on science, that which can be seen and proven, knowledge etc. is entirely a coincedence? to my mind, there's no evidence (no pun intended :)) to suggest that a link exists between patriarchal dominance and the emphasis placed on science. i mean, going back to the dawn of known history, the ages of humankind have been defined by our technology, our science if you will. the progression of humanity over the ages has been in mastering his surroundings, through the use of tools. i think that the tendency of humans towards knowledge and data and science is not due to our patriarchal history, but due to the fact that science and the quest for truth and the absolute has become so firmly ingrained in the human psyche. take for example the education system, we're sent to school for 12/13 years right at the very beginning of our lives. keep in mind, 13 years represents 17% of the average human lifespan, and thats not even taking into account tertiary education. i have no experience with any microcosmal matriarchal group so i cant comment, but i do have to question the relevance of what "we imagine matriarchal society would be" on the grounds that its entirely subjective. it just seems to me that the idea that certain values are inherent in each sex is ludicrous, to say that is to propose that essence precedes existence, i cant believe that. but, having said that, that is also a subjective statement :D


Think of the difference between the way society expects fathers to act and the way it expects mothers to act. No one here is denying that these ideas aren't heavily steeped in socially constructed gender roles. But just because they are constructed by society, doesn't mean that they aren't heavily ingrained in the psyche. Because of my experiences with the world, I think of male energy as one thing and female energy as something else.

aah ok, i understand this point. ultimately, its your own experience. my experience tells me otherwise, so its mostly a difference of opinion then :) makes sense now :D


And I will have to respectfully disagree with you that "feminism is a movement aimed at destroying gender roles." The gender roles are there and aren't going anywhere. As a feminist, I only want the choice to play other roles, not get rid of them altogether. It is my belief that the goal of third wave feminism is aimed solely at creating more choices for women. I think it would be foolish to think we can destroy gender roles. I prefer to set achievable goals. Maybe that's just me :p

haha, i dunno, im always up for a shot at the "impossible". hmm, ok, well my own view is that feminism had a great potential to destroy or destabilize the roles ascribed to each gender, but unfortunately fell short of this. i can understand how this is a result of the historical oppression of womens rights, but its still sad that feminism could have accomplished so much more. i dunno, i would still argue that in its purest form feminism does aim to destabilize ascribed roles, you say it yourself, you "want the choice". well, if you have choice, then you dont have an ascribed role, you have the ability to choose what role you will play. and while im on the topic, i find it annoying that today's feminism is only concerned with the creation of options for women, because roles for men are just as entrenched as roles for women were. but anyway, waaaay off topic.


I hope that helps some. :) I'm fully aware that this doesn't make sense to some people and probably never will. It's based alot on individual life experiences. I find that another sort of misconception people have about Dianic Wiccans is that they want to change the world. They want to change society into this matriarchal utopia ruled by amazons, etc. etc. etc. This is not the case (well not always ;) ). Dianic believers are just as diverse as any other group. For me personally, it's about my own personal predispositions and preferences in sacred space. I'm not trying to convert anyone else to my way of thinking :)

it makes sense, i just dont agree with it :) each to his.../her own :p

oh, and macha, i can see where you are coming from, but my own experiences are different. alot of the people i know are actually much more ambiguous in that both men and women are emotional and practical at different times.

Mithrea
April 30th, 2004, 04:10 PM
hmm, i can see where you are coming from here, but isnt it entirely possible that the correlation between the history of patriarchial dominance and the emphasis on science, that which can be seen and proven, knowledge etc. is entirely a coincedence?

I'm not saying that women wouldn't have developed a society that is just the same, but since this is what we have and women have traditionally shut out of these endeavors, I still consider them male. Is it a coincidence? Yup. Could be. But from where I sit, that's what I see and the point is that I have no way of knowing otherwise because I have nothing to compare it to :)


but i do have to question the relevance of what "we imagine matriarchal society would be" on the grounds that its entirely subjective. it just seems to me that the idea that certain values are inherent in each sex is ludicrous, to say that is to propose that essence precedes existence, i cant believe that. but, having said that, that is also a subjective statement

Again, it's entirely subjective. What is wrong with that? I am completely comfortable with subjectivity, chaos, etc. of it :lol: Subjective/Objective would be another one of those oppositions that some would view as belonging to female/male spheres. The only absolute I believe in is that there are no absolutes. ;) I don't believe that anything is completely objective or always true.

I know you didn't mean it that way but I have to cringe whey you said "the idea that certain values are inherent in each sex is ludicrous" since that is one of my core beliefs. You are entitled to your opinion, but that's a stong word. And again, I'm going to point out the concept of yin and yang. These aren't new ideas. I'm not saying that makes them any more valid or anything, just that I'm not just whipping this out of my butt :D


i find it annoying that today's feminism is only concerned with the creation of options for women, because roles for men are just as entrenched as roles for women were. but anyway, waaaay off topic.

I would be careful making any sweeping statements about "today's feminism." Part of the reason feminism is constantly unsuccessful on specific agendas is because of the diversity of beliefs. I think that if you destablize female gender roles, then you automatically destable male gender roles. I am all for men being whatever they want too, just as long as they don't step on my uterus to do it :lol: I see what you mean about if you have a choice, then you don't have an ascribed role. I just think that no one should be relegated to just a role or just one role. People are far more complicated than that. That's what I meant by having a choice. Not *a choice* necessarily but just having the freedom to be whoever they are and be comfortable being whatever that is.

And, I might be going a bit off topic here, but hey, who cares? I'm really enjoying this discussion :) Thank you :D Anyway, I think that just in the last three years I can see a TON of progress in that I look at places like MW and Witchvox and I see how much more importance is placed on the individual experience rather than shoving people off into types of roles. I think (and it's just my lonely opinion) that paganism and gender rights groups are working together with feminists, (even if they don't know it ;) to slowly bring about changes that are going to benefit all of us :)

dr_zeus440
May 2nd, 2004, 06:59 AM
sorry its taken me a while to reply :)


Again, it's entirely subjective. What is wrong with that? I am completely comfortable with subjectivity, chaos, etc. of it :lol: Subjective/Objective would be another one of those oppositions that some would view as belonging to female/male spheres. The only absolute I believe in is that there are no absolutes. ;) I don't believe that anything is completely objective or always true.

I know you didn't mean it that way but I have to cringe whey you said "the idea that certain values are inherent in each sex is ludicrous" since that is one of my core beliefs. You are entitled to your opinion, but that's a stong word. And again, I'm going to point out the concept of yin and yang. These aren't new ideas. I'm not saying that makes them any more valid or anything, just that I'm not just whipping this out of my butt :D

im not saying that there's anything wrong with subjectivity :) indeed, it can be considered to be the core of religion. i guess i just had to remind myself that that was your opinion and you werent trying to present it as truth (by truth, i mean absolute). i see religion as the pursuit of an absolute, so i do approach it with an amount of objectivity :) but thats just me.

ok, well as a lit student, we're basically taught to separate the values and the genders. values arent inherent in genders, theyre taught and learnt and perpetuated, but not inherent. an analogy would be that a male can be raised to act, respond and react as a woman (not female, a woman) would be expected to, if the values ascribed to women are taught and learnt to/by the male child (i say child because i imagine it would difficult to teach a man to act like a woman, and id say that most male children grow up to become men(please note the difference between gender and sex)). thats why i said that its ludicrous. its not just one of my beliefs, its a tenet of literary analysis. also because i lean towards existentialism in that existence precedes essence, i.e. that sexes arent born with an essence that can define them i.e. a set of inherent values. so again, it comes down to personal beliefs :)


I would be careful making any sweeping statements about "today's feminism." Part of the reason feminism is constantly unsuccessful on specific agendas is because of the diversity of beliefs. I think that if you destablize female gender roles, then you automatically destable male gender roles. I am all for men being whatever they want too, just as long as they don't step on my uterus to do it :lol: I see what you mean about if you have a choice, then you don't have an ascribed role. I just think that no one should be relegated to just a role or just one role. People are far more complicated than that. That's what I meant by having a choice. Not *a choice* necessarily but just having the freedom to be whoever they are and be comfortable being whatever that is.

And, I might be going a bit off topic here, but hey, who cares? I'm really enjoying this discussion :) Thank you :D Anyway, I think that just in the last three years I can see a TON of progress in that I look at places like MW and Witchvox and I see how much more importance is placed on the individual experience rather than shoving people off into types of roles. I think (and it's just my lonely opinion) that paganism and gender rights groups are working together with feminists, (even if they don't know it ;) to slowly bring about changes that are going to benefit all of us :)

ok, well here's where im also a little confused. you say that the destabilization of female gender roles causes the destabilization of male gender roles, "i think that if you destablize female gender roles, then you automatically destable male gender roles". you also say that you believe there are values inherent in each sex, specifically stating that empirical knowledge, science, logic, objectivity etc. are values inherent in the male sex. well, by placing knowledge, science, logic and objectivity as aspects of the male sphere, you are creating/supporting/stabilizing an ascribed role because your saying that being male, being primarily male energy if you will, that being male means you possess these values, or that these values are inherent in the male sex. so the two statements dont fit if you hold the destabilization of female gender roles to be a value. could you explain this to me? i dont want you to think that im putting words into your mouth, so to speak, but it does seem like a contradiction to me at the moment, because i know that you are not perpetuating gender roles.

im enjoying the discussion too, its good to actually have a proper debate on here without it resorting to mudslinging! looking forward to your reply.

MoonAnu
May 4th, 2004, 12:30 PM
The most common question that comes up when Dianic Wicca is discussed is the question of balance. It's a tricky question. My blanket answer is that most Dianics I know feel that they spend the majority of their time in male energy since that is what the mundane world focuses on, logic, analysis, action, squashing or supressing creativity, etc. Therefore they need their spiritual quests to involve female energy only in their sacred and magical lives in order to get a balance in the first place. While most people see Dianics as unbalanced, as a Dianic, I can say that I see non Dianics as just as unbalanced as they see me because they spend time in a male only space, but have no female only space (ie, a space that prizes intuition over logic, creativity over conformity, etc.)

These are just my personal beliefs, as a disclaimer I must say this as to not anger anyone by saying, "Oh, Dianic witchcraft is really like this, not that". I personally believe that there does need to be an equilibrium between male and female energy. As a dianic witch I see that, yes, there are obviously male influences in the world, how else would their be reproduction, and if there was no reproduction, none of us would exist. However, I see that feminine energy in itself can be duel sided without including a "God-like" energy into the mix. As a woman, I know that I have my "dark" and "light" side (Yin/Yang). I see the Goddess as the same, as I believe I am in her image, and we all are to some degree (once again, these are just my personal beliefs). Since concentrating on Goddess contains both "dark" and "light", both moon, sun, as everything is dual sided, I see no need to concentrate on any other God-like forces than Goddess (and her incarnations) themselves.

From another stand point, if all things are swirls of energy, a vortex of moving forces, always changing and evolving, and nothing is truly "fixed" (light nor dark, female nor male), then energy and diety may very well be sexless. Therefore it doesn't matter what particular title you give it, Goddess, God, diety, whatever you choose. It is up to you and whatever you feel comfortable with. I did not grow up with a father, and have found myself more emotionally dependant and obsessive about father figures since I did not have one. I don't think I have a healthy relationship with father figures. I feel more comfortable calling diety Goddess because I DO have healthy relationships with mother figures, and don't feel dependant upon them, or become overly obsessed with gaining and maintaining their love and devotion. With father figures I feel as if I have something to prove, to impress them somehow. Mother figures I only give love and ask for love in return. I feel that if I were to worship a God figure, I would feel more oppressed by my obsessive need to please rather than focus on what the craft really means to me. Self expression and self realization. To understand the self on a higher level than most are capable of. Besides, if nothing in life is really "fixed", and it's all really field of energies that only temporarily congeal into forms, then "fixed" things such as sex are really just illusions. Sex shouldn't be the issue in practicing the craft, what SHOULD be the issue is what makes YOU as a witch/pagan/druid/etc comfortable and happy with yourself and what you practice.

I feel that anyone can learn and grow without a dual side, a God and Goddess, because everyone has a dual side, or multiple sides (such as Maiden/Mother/Crone). I think that you will get just as much from your faith either way, as long as you acknowledge nothing is really dark nor light, set in stone, everything is just perception in reality.

And I'm done babbling.

- Merryck

Mysty Moon
June 14th, 2004, 10:45 PM
I followed the Dianic path for about a year because I was having trouble indentifying with other women and with female Dieties and energies. I found a very warm and welcoming Dianic community on-line and I learned so much! One thing I have found with Dianics versus other paths, they tend to be more focused and active on political issues, such as environmentalism and women's rights.
For me, the Dianic path was a stage in my development, but I believe it has a very valuable and nurturing role in the Pagan faiths, and for many people it's a productive path for a lifetime! If you're interested in it, it is well worth your time to check out.


Haruka2077~ I was wondering if that community is still on going

also thank you everyone for your posts on dianic I've been wondering what to call what i do I was calling if goddess wicca with I still am because i'm not exclusively dianic but thanx anyway

Seline

Haruka2077
June 16th, 2004, 10:09 PM
Haruka2077~ I was wondering if that community is still on going


Mysty Moon- I think this is the community I belonged to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADianicCoven/
I'm not sure because I'd been a while since I was a member, but you can check it out. :)

Phae Talon
June 19th, 2004, 07:37 PM
I am glad this thread was started ... I have bookmarked the pages, and will read them later. I have wanted to learn more about Dianic Wicca for some time ... just from browsing the web, one thing I have learned is that they have some of the best re-told myths. The Dianic creation myth is one of my favorites ... if I can find it again, I will post the link for everyone.

--Phae

gyroWang
June 20th, 2004, 10:53 AM
i dont get it, how are logic, analysis, action, and the suppression of creativity characteristics of a environment dominated by "male energy"?

Same here, what about all those great creative people over the years, male and female, such as artists and musicians. Based on the people i've met in my life i'd have to say the ratio of logical/creative males vs logical/creative females is pretty much balanced.

Rain Gnosis
June 20th, 2004, 01:21 PM
you also say that you believe there are values inherent in each sex, specifically stating that empirical knowledge, science, logic, objectivity etc. are values inherent in the male sex. well, by placing knowledge, science, logic and objectivity as aspects of the male sphere, you are creating/supporting/stabilizing an ascribed role because your saying that being male, being primarily male energy if you will, that being male means you possess these values, or that these values are inherent in the male sex.

I can't speak for the person you were responding to, however, in my opinion, this discussion would be eased if people separated the terms masculine and feminine from male and female.

Logic, science, fact, objectivity, are classicly considered to be related to masculine energy. It does not follow that men must necessarily be logical, objective, scientific, etc. and not intuitive, emotional, etc. Men and women both have both masculine and feminine attributes. Generally men are more masculine. Thus, in general, a society dominated by men is going to have more masculine energy. This does not, however, mean that men must be 100% masculine and can't be intuitive etc. - far from it. However, consider this - have you ever heard of "men's intuition"? Nope, but "women's intuition" is a common term. Men generally aren't considered emotional, but women are. Way back when gender roles were very solid, it was a woman's duty to stay home and rear children. So intuition, emotions, and raising children, became classicly associated with women and femininity. Nowadays our roles have changed - men can be more feminine, women can be more masculine.

We have to realize when discussing masculine and feminine attributes we are only discussing a model, not something absolute. And like I said, the model has changed. There's no one in the universe who came down and told us "intuitiveness is a feminine quality, all women must be intuitive and men must not be".

Unfortunately society still often insists that women must be feminine and men must be masculine. Of course, we know better. So we know that just because logic is often considered masculine it doesn't mean only men are logical.

A Dianic would see the universe as consisting of masculine and feminine energies, and that women contain both within them. A Dianic coven might be woman-only simply because some women feel more comfortable working with other women - perhaps because of abuse, perhaps just because sometimes a woman just wants to relax with her girlfriends (much like sometimes a guy just wants to hang out with his buddies).

Dianic spirituality focuses partially on recognizing the changing model of masculine and feminine, and the changing roles of men and women in society. Therefore Dianics are often more vocal about gender roles in general and feminism in particular, as well as about same-sex couples etc.

At least, that's my take on it. I can't speak for other people.

Rain Gnosis
June 20th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Oh and I wanted to add -


Some other common reasons for women joining the tradition include the non-heirachical organisation of most Dianic groups, the trad's inclusion in its rituals of events specific to women's lives such as pregnancy, abortion, menarche and menopause etc, a personal rejection of the idea of male-female polarity (central to what I guess we can call "normal" Wicca) and so on.

First, I personally still don't feel comfortable discussing pregnancy, abortion, menstruation, miscarriage, etc. with men. We still do *not* speak of these things in front of my father, who finds the discussion uncomfortable, and generally I don't find most men can understand what exactly a woman's body goes through. So I feel more comfortable and natural discussing these things, and celebrating them as appropriate etc., with other women. This is one reason women might feel more comfortable in a Dianic coven. I could absolutely see men starting a man-only coven so they could feel comfortable discussing stuff that only happens to men. I see the differences in our bodies as something to celebrate and recognize - not be shameful of - and yet these differences don't make either male or female better. I don't feel "more important" such that I need a woman-only coven just because I'm a woman - but I do feel different from a man, and more comfortable discussing those differences with other women.

Second, male-female polarity. I touched on that a bit in the other post. In today's society men and women do not have set roles anymore. For some Wiccans it only makes sense to flow with society and work with masculine-feminine polarity. Some are going to feel comfortable working with a Goddess they know is both masculine and feminine. And then, many people are comfortable working with male-female/God and Goddess. One must simply work with the model that works for them. Dianic spirituality is not for everyone, and it shouldn't be. But hopefully everyone gets the right to do whatever works for them.

CajunLady
January 13th, 2005, 12:10 AM
Thought I'd dig up an old tread before starting a new one...does anyone have any other information to share concerning the Dianic path? It's something I feel myself being drawn to and would love to learn as much as possible!

Bookgirl83
January 17th, 2005, 11:39 AM
I'm with you. I'm very interested in learning more about this path.

RainAndMoonChild
August 4th, 2005, 10:59 PM
I found this thread through the "similar threads" section to a thread I had just started on Dianic Wicca. I am looking forward to meeting other dianic's on this board. I am new to dianic wicca, and so far it's definatly the path for me. I am reading "Women's Rites, Women's Mysteries: Creading Ritual in Dianic Wiccan Tradition", and it's an excellent book. I'd like to see this thread keep going!

Blessings,
Arana Skylar

Mithrea
August 5th, 2005, 10:01 AM
I found this thread through the "similar threads" section to a thread I had just started on Dianic Wicca. I am looking forward to meeting other dianic's on this board. I am new to dianic wicca, and so far it's definatly the path for me. I am reading "Women's Rites, Women's Mysteries: Creading Ritual in Dianic Wiccan Tradition", and it's an excellent book. I'd like to see this thread keep going!

Blessings,
Arana Skylar

How is it? I haven't read it :) I follow Diane Stein more I think.

Mithrea
August 5th, 2005, 10:03 AM
Here is a Dianic Yahoo group that's good:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feminist_Dianic_Witchcraft (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feminist_Dianic_Witchcraft)

RainAndMoonChild
August 5th, 2005, 03:52 PM
I am a part of that yahoo! group already, but thanks for the link!! The book is awesome, I highly suggest it !!

Blessings,
Arana Skylar

Mithrea
August 14th, 2005, 10:15 PM
:lol: Well, I screwed this all up, but I did just add a Dianic forum to my message board at http://www.sfcircle.org (http://www.sfcircle.org) , if you are interested. :)

RedRaven
August 14th, 2005, 11:01 PM
some people will agree with my view, some people will not, but here we go. to say that someone doesnt follow the God because our culture is male dominated is rediculious. It is insulting to Wiccans as well as Christians because its a general statement that says that the Wiccan God and the Christian one are the same, when they clearly are not. If anyone wants be dianic and follow a goddess worshipping path then do so if thats what works for you. But its not fair to call dianics, any any other group, "Wiccan" unless God and Goddess are worshipped together in harmony, opposites yet equally needed.

RR

Mithrea
August 15th, 2005, 12:26 AM
some people will agree with my view, some people will not, but here we go. to say that someone doesnt follow the God because our culture is male dominated is rediculious. It is insulting to Wiccans as well as Christians because its a general statement that says that the Wiccan God and the Christian one are the same, when they clearly are not. If anyone wants be dianic and follow a goddess worshipping path then do so if thats what works for you. But its not fair to call dianics, any any other group, "Wiccan" unless God and Goddess are worshipped together in harmony, opposites yet equally needed.

RR

You know, it is AMAZING to me that with all of the "sanctuary" and "respect" talk the Admins do on MW, people still think it's okay to trash Dianics. I cannot tell you how tired I am of it. You are making assumptions and generalizations about Dianics and you are being rude as you do it. My path is not yours to judge as fair or unfair to anyone. As I am not Christian, my path has nothing to do with the Christian God so to say that what I call my path is unfair to Him, is ridiculous.

My belief, and I do not really feel the need to justify it to you or anyone else, is that both God and Goddess encompass all energies. To reduce them to just male/female is very sad and doesn't give them the credit they deserve. As a human being, I am filled with many types of energies, just like the Divine that created me. I work with the Goddess because as a woman, she is who I relate to best. It's that simple and it's mine, not yours. :)

RedRaven
August 15th, 2005, 02:33 AM
first off I wasnt trashing dianics so calm down. I was just giving my opinion, nothing more. like i said, if it works for you then whatever floats your boat. if i were trashing you or any one else for being dianic you would have known lol so dont give me this nonsense about trashing you just because we have different opinions :)

RR

Philosophia
August 15th, 2005, 07:44 PM
There are many different types of Dianic Wicca; there are paths which do honour the God, some who don't, but all have equal validity in Wicca regardless of how one worships the Goddess/God.