Lesson One Discussion

[aefentid]

This is a thread for discussion, debate, and questions about the first lesson.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Gala]

I read through the material you posted. Not all of it but some.
I particularily want to study the gods and goddesses. Or Vanir and Aesir. I began by studying the books of Freyja Aswyn and Thorson (sp). Mainly to study the runes. I was making them to sell and wanted to have knowledge of them.
However I have since gone over to more Celtic deities. I tend to have more of a connection with the Norse gods, or maybe it is because I first learned them
I am primarily anglo saxon.(English, French, }Mann{ not sure what that is) I do like the ritual aspect of Wicca however.
I just need to understand Heathenry better. Because I tended to fell more connected and my spells feel more potent when using runes and the Anglo Saxon Deities.
I guess that's all I wanted to say.
I have much more to read.

[aefentid]

I read through the material you posted. Not all of it but some.
I particularily want to study the gods and goddesses. Or Vanir and Aesir. I began by studying the books of Freyja Aswyn and Thorson (sp). Mainly to study the runes. I was making them to sell and wanted to have knowledge of them.I think you're going to like the second and third week, there's loads of information and links to most of the major gods :) . Until then you might want to check out the sections gods sections on the English Heathenry and Ealdriht pages I linked to in the first lesson.


However I have since gone over to more Celtic deities. I tend to have more of a connection with the Norse gods, or maybe it is because I first learned themI know the feeling the Aesir/Vanir were the first gods I really connected to, not that I didn't try with other gods just ignored me.


I am primarily anglo saxon.(English, French, }Mann{ not sure what that is) I do like the ritual aspect of Wicca however.Some Heathens get uptight at anyone who isn't a Heathen honoring the gods, but most of us don't. I really don't see any reason why you couldn't honor them or work with them using Wiccan ritual.




I just need to understand Heathenry better. Because I tended to fell more connected and my spells feel more potent when using runes and the Anglo Saxon Deities.
I guess that's all I wanted to say.
I have much more to read.I hope you enjoy the class :graduate: .

in frith,
Æfentid

[Rowan MoonDragon]

this is very interesting. this is something that I know absolutely nothing about. however, I am of germand heritage and I thought it would be interesting. I am still trying to figure out my path and any knowledge is wonderful! I'm so glad you decided to teach this!

[Nantonos]

Asatru (pron. AY-sah-true) means 'true to the Aesir'.
So Vanatru means true to the Vanir?

What is the word for 'true to the Aesir and Vanir' (or is that 'Heathenry')?

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~fealcen/vanicve.htm says

Sometimes I have heard of following the Vanir being referred to
as Vanatru or "True to the Vanir" yet, as Njörðr was called
"The Third Ás" with Freyr and Freyja being called "The Most
Glorious of the Æsir/Ásyniur" respectively, they are amongst
the foremost of the Æsir and I do not believe it would be
inappropriate for the term Ásatru to be used either

So now I am a little confused - what is the defining characteristic of the Vanir, how are they different from the Aesir? is one a sub or superset of the other? Is one older or younger than the other? Why is a distinction made between these two groups of deities?

[Gala]

the Aesir or Vanir are like the Titans and the Gods of Greek mythos I think.
One are like the parents of the others.
the Aesir are the parents or First and the Vanir are the children or second???
Of course I am not sure. Just assuming a dangerous thing to do.

Our teacher will straighten me out I'm sure.

[Nantonos]

the Aesir or Vanir are like the Titans and the Gods of Greek mythos I think.
One are like the parents of the others.
the Aesir are the parents or First and the Vanir are the children or second???

That was wha I was wondering when i asked if one was older then the other - both mythologically (one is the others parents) and historically (one belongs to an older people). Historical mergers are often expressed at a mythological level.

In particular I was wondering if the Vanir represent the deities of the farmsteading, agricultural, post-oppidum peoples on the east bank of the Rhine - the folks who Tacitus and Caesar referred to as Germans - while the Aesir represent the deities of the originaly Scandinavian peoples who were referred to as Germans during the migration period.


Of course I am not sure. Just assuming a dangerous thing to do.


:) Or unfounded extrapolation in my case :)

[aefentid]

So Vanatru means true to the Vanir?

What is the word for 'true to the Aesir and Vanir' (or is that 'Heathenry')?

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~fealcen/vanicve.htm says

Sometimes I have heard of following the Vanir being referred to
as Vanatru or "True to the Vanir" yet, as Njörðr was called
"The Third Ás" with Freyr and Freyja being called "The Most
Glorious of the Æsir/Ásyniur" respectively, they are amongst
the foremost of the Æsir and I do not believe it would be
inappropriate for the term Ásatru to be used either


So now I am a little confused - what is the defining characteristic of the Vanir, how are they different from the Aesir? is one a sub or superset of the other? Is one older or younger than the other? Why is a distinction made between these two groups of deities?
You picked one of my favorite subjects :graduate: . When I'm being really specific about my beliefs I call them Vanatru, or actually now that I'm studying a specific culture Wanatreow. Personally I consider myself Wanatreow, because I'm oathed to Freyr and Freyja, and my Heathenry is centered on them, although I don't ignore the other gods. I'm also more intuitive, earthy, and esoteric in my practices, which is more common in Wanatreow, than in other forms of Heathenry.

Yes, Vanatru means true to the Vanir, and some Anglo-Saxon Vanatru refer to themselves as Wanatreow "true to the Wans". Vanatru refers to people who primarily or only worship the Vanir. Asatru can refer to not only the Aesir but also the Vanir. The Vanir that are known; Freyr, Freyja, and Njord all live in Asgard, and in the lore are often included among the Aesir. Heathen can be used generically, as a sort of umbrella term for anyone who practices a reconstructed Germanic religion. It can also be used more specifically by people whose practices are continental or Anglo-Saxon.

The Vanir and Aesir are two different tribes of gods. In the lore they go to war against each other and fight to a stalemate, they end up calling a truce and exchanging hostages. The Vanir send Freyr and Njord, Freyja isn't mentioned as a hostage but she shows up too. You could say the three of them are adopted into the Aesir all three are regularly refered to as Aesir and are considered important gods. There isn't much known about the other Vanir, here's a short list of them.
Gullveig (gold drunk) was the Vanir goddess who started the war. She showed up at Asgard and started showing off her magical skills, the Aesir tried to kill her and had her burned three times which she survived. It's possible that Gullveig is another name for Freyja, both are associated with gold and witchcraft.

Skadi and Gerd both giants are sometimes considered Vanir by marriage. Skadi was married to Njord, and Gerd is married to Freyr.

Heimdall and Idhun are both counted among the Aesir, but they might actually be Vanir.

Nerthus, she isn't mentioned anywhere in the lore, but she's often thought to be Njord's unnamed sister/wife and the mother of Freyr and Freyja.

Beyla and Bygvir, Freyr's servants could possibly be gods. Beyla the goddess of either milk or honey and Bygvir the god of grain.

Holda, there's no evidence at all that she's Vanic, but I've noticed quite a few Heathens listing her as such.

Twin gods such as the Alcis are also often listed as Vanic.

The Vanir did things differently than the Aesir, some of their customs even horrified the Aesir. Brother sister marriage was common among them. The Aesir forbid their hostages from continuing the practice, which is why Njord didn't bring his wife. There is some mention of Freyr and Freyja still sleeping with each other though, and some modern Vanatru consider them to be consorts. The Vanir were also said to know the future and to practice magic, although Freyja is the only one who's specifically named as practicing witchcraft.

The most popular theory of where the Vanir came from is that the Aesir were the Gods of the Indo-European invaders and the Vanir were the Gods of the native agricultural culture. I personally don't like this theory, it sounds to much like Gimbutas. It's hard to track down other theories because that one is so popular. I have heard that the Vanir might've originally been Saami gods or the gods of a Baltic culture, but I know so little about those cultures I have no idea how accurate those theories might be.

The Vanir are often thought of as fertility and agricultural deities and the gods of the common man, but they're much more than that. Both the Aesir and Vanir can be hard to pin down they all tend to have so many functions. If I had to think of a way to describe the Vanir as a whole I would say: they're the gods of wealth, the gods of good things, the gods of pleasure, the mound dead, and of certain kinds of magic.

Ok now I feel like going back to calling myself Vanatru:) .

in frith,
Æfentid

[mothwench]

correct me if i'm wrong, but up until now i had thought there was an aire of seperatism behind the concept of vanatru. for this reason:


The Vanir and Aesir are two different tribes of gods. In the lore they go to war against each other and fight to a stalemate, they end up calling a truce and exchanging hostages. The Vanir send Freyr and Njord, Freyja isn't mentioned as a hostage but she shows up too. You could say the three of them are adopted into the Aesir all three are regularly refered to as Aesir and are considered important gods.

what will happen at ragnarok? :huh: will freyja and frey be fighting as vanir, or as aesir?

[aefentid]

correct me if i'm wrong, but up until now i had thought there was an aire of seperatism behind the concept of vanatru. for this reason:

The Vanir and Aesir are two different tribes of gods. In the lore they go to war against each other and fight to a stalemate, they end up calling a truce and exchanging hostages. The Vanir send Freyr and Njord, Freyja isn't mentioned as a hostage but she shows up too. You could say the three of them are adopted into the Aesir all three are regularly refered to as Aesir and are considered important gods.
There is some separatism between Vanatru and Asatru. It really depends on the practioner though. Not many people are Vanatru, and like I said in my other reply some of us tend to be more intuitive and we're more likely to practice magic than the average Asatru. Both the intuitiveness and the magic get us labeled as fluffytru by some of the more conservative types :rolleyes: .





what will happen at ragnarok? :huh: will freyja and frey be fighting as vanir, or as aesir?
Freyja isn't mentioned at all, which I always found strange, it seems to me that given she does have war aspects and she has been collecting half of the battle dead, that she would be there.
Njord isn't really mentioned either, only that he survives ragnarok and returns home.
Freyr is the only Vanic god who's mentioned that fights. He goes up against Surt and is killed. He's possibly killed with his own sword, which he gave up so he could marry Gerd, and he possibly fights with a stag's antler. There's no real mention of the division between the Aesir and the Vanir in the accounts of ragnarok.

in frith,
Æfentid

[mothwench]

There is some separatism between Vanatru and Asatru. It really depends on the practioner though. Not many people are Vanatru, and like I said in my other reply some of us tend to be more intuitive and we're more likely to practice magic than the average Asatru. Both the intuitiveness and the magic get us labeled as fluffytru by some of the more conservative types :rolleyes: .


:) actually i meant seperatism felt by the followers of vanatru. not the other way round. i'm well aware of the stereotype you're talking about and is not what i was implying at all.

[aefentid]

:) actually i meant seperatism felt by the followers of vanatru. not the other way round. i'm well aware of the stereotype you're talking about and is not what i was implying at all.
Sorry about that, I'm seriously sleep deprived so I hope I'm not misunderstanding your question again :) .

Do you mean are their Vanatruars who feel that what they're doing is completely separate and has no bearing on Asatru?

If that's what you mean, I personally haven't come across any Vanatru who are trying to separate from the larger Asatru community. On the other hand I have seen some Vanic groups who do things so differently that their Vanatru resembles Traditional Witchcraft more than Heathenry. There aren't many people who are Vanatru now, but as the movement grows and matures in the future I can see at least some groups actively separating themselves from Asatru.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Per your quote: "Wyrd is the weaving together of the sum total of past and present acts and their consequences" and the article you linked above, "some of those actions, both our own and others', exercise a clear and continuing influence over the course of our lives, occasionally out of all proportion to their physical effects," and "One of the fundamental perceptions we have of Wyrd is the tendency of acts to ripple out in all directions from the point at which they take place, creating consequences far beyond what was intended or perceived at the time."

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong or misunderstanding, but it seems similar to the Hindu concept of karma. Not that I'm saying it's the same at all, but Hindu's do seem to believe that every action will "ripple out in all directions from the point at which they take place, creating consequences far beyond what was intended or perceived at the time," as the aforementioned article states. Am I mistaken to compare the two?

[aefentid]

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong or misunderstanding, but it seems similar to the Hindu concept of karma. Not that I'm saying it's the same at all, but Hindu's do seem to believe that every action will "ripple out in all directions from the point at which they take place, creating consequences far beyond what was intended or perceived at the time," as the aforementioned article states. Am I mistaken to compare the two?
I don't think you're wrong in comparing them. I'm not overly familiar with the Hindu concept of karma but there do seem to be similarities, and I have seen the two compared numerous times.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Nantonos]

I don't think you're wrong in comparing them. I'm not overly familiar with the Hindu concept of karma but there do seem to be similarities, and I have seen the two compared numerous times.


In Heathenry is there a concept of reincarnation, or are the dead stored upfor Ragnarok? (About which i know nothing, but that is another lesson). I ask because the concept of Wyrd seems more immediate and also to clearly affect other people, now; while the concept of karma seens to imply some sort of effect on the next incarnation for that one person.

[aefentid]

In Heathenry is there a concept of reincarnation, or are the dead stored upfor Ragnarok? (About which i know nothing, but that is another lesson). I ask because the concept of Wyrd seems more immediate and also to clearly affect other people, now; while the concept of karma seens to imply some sort of effect on the next incarnation for that one person.
Heathenry has multiple choices of afterlife. Reincarnation is one of them, people are reincarnated in their family line. Then there's hel which is boring but not a bad place. The warriors either go to Freyja or Odin, and there's mention of other dead going to various gods' halls. There are several other possible afterlifes but I'll save them, for the class on the afterlife.

There's also hamingja, which is closer to the concept of Karma having an effect on the next incarnation of a person. Hamingja is the luck of a family and one family member's evil acts can ruin the hamingja for generations to come. Considering that people were reincarnated into their family line they would be effected by their actions in their next incarnation.

in frith,
Æfentid

[MerrisHawk]

Seems someone got to my question first, this is so interesting! Makes it hard to give it up and go to sleep. :)

[mothwench]

Sorry about that, I'm seriously sleep deprived so I hope I'm not misunderstanding your question again :) .

Do you mean are their Vanatruars who feel that what they're doing is completely separate and has no bearing on Asatru?

If that's what you mean, I personally haven't come across any Vanatru who are trying to separate from the larger Asatru community. On the other hand I have seen some Vanic groups who do things so differently that their Vanatru resembles Traditional Witchcraft more than Heathenry. There aren't many people who are Vanatru now, but as the movement grows and matures in the future I can see at least some groups actively separating themselves from Asatru.

in frith,
Æfentid

:bigredblu i'm sorry, i know the question was a bit weird. what i was talking about was more of a kind of political seperatism, if you could call it that within a religion... the aesir and the vanir had a truce, and freyja and frey became one of the aesir. if you view freyja as vanir, does it mean you feel that truce between the vanir and aesir was unjust?
but now i realise the question might be a bit personal, and i wish i had never asked. ack. don't worry about it. :lol:

[aefentid]

:bigredblu i'm sorry, i know the question was a bit weird. what i was talking about was more of a kind of political seperatism, if you could call it that within a religion... the aesir and the vanir had a truce, and freyja and frey became one of the aesir. if you view freyja as vanir, does it mean you feel that truce between the vanir and aesir was unjust?
but now i realise the question might be a bit personal, and i wish i had never asked. ack. don't worry about it. :lol:
It's not too personal I'm just a little thick today.

There isn't a lot of arguement over the war between the Aesir and Vanir or the truce in Heathenry. I don't think the truce was unjust, but I do think of Freyr, Freyja, and Njord as Vanir before I think of them as Aesir. I don't think any of them stopped being Vanir after they joined the Aesir, it's more like they belong to two families now.

Did I get it that time :graduate: .

in frith,
Æfentid

[mucgwyrt]

wow, this is so going *woosh* over my head! :lol:
(I'm all for a symbel though! :cheers: )

Lon list of questions from an absolute beginner :bigredblu : :sick:
What's Ragnorok?
What's Vanir and Aesir precisely - Gods? And so Asatru is a following of the god Aesir, and Vanatru is a following of the God Vanir?
If these were two tribes then, did they live in the same area, or were they seperated somewhat?
What's a "Wan" when its at home?
You say 'Heathenry' includes the AngloSaxons - meaning britain?

[aefentid]

What's Ragnorok?Ragnarok is the twilight of the Gods a sort of Germanic end of the world . To be brief the Aesir and Vanir and their allies fight a battle against the forces of chaos which includes Loki, the Fenris wolf, midgard serpent and various giants. The Gods lose and most of them are killed the world is destroyed but rises again and life starts anew. If you want to read the Eddic account of it here's a link I believe the account of Ragnarok starts on verse 44 which is near the bottom of the page.

http://www.northvegr.org/lore/poetic2/001_04.php


What's Vanir and Aesir precisely - Gods? And so Asatru is a following of the god Aesir, and Vanatru is a following of the God Vanir? They're two separate families or tribes of gods. Here's a short list of them. The Aesir: Odin, Frigg, Thor, Baldr, Tyr, Idhun, and Bragi. The Vanir: Freyr, Freyja, Njord, and Nerthus.

If these were two tribes then, did they live in the same area, or were they seperated somewhat? In heathenry there are nine worlds: Asgard the home of the Aesir, Vanaheim the home of the Vanir, Midgard which is earth, Ljossalfheim home of the light alfs, Svartalfheim home of the dark alfs or dwarves, Jotunheim the land of the giants, Muspelheim the land of fire, Nifleheim the land of ice, and Hel the underworld.
Here's a diagram of the nine worlds
http://home.earthlink.net/~9worlds/worldtree.html


What's a "Wan" when its at home?Wan or Wena is the Anglo-Saxon word for Vanir.

You say 'Heathenry' includes the AngloSaxons - meaning britain?
Yes, or at least between the time the settled in Britain and were all converted to Christianity around 700 C.E.

in frith,
Æfentid

[mothwench]

:lol: thanks aefentid, you've answered my question now. i do have more questions, but as lesson one is more of an introduction, i'll wait until we discuss the subjects more in depth.

[Anahita]

I'm still exploring the links, but wow! Very meaty from the first bite. I'm so glad I'm taking this class.

This discussion has been very interesting too.

I like the idea that heathenism is concerned with actual historical practices (as one of the essays pointed out), but how often is that really adhered to? Are most heathens well-educated about the historical practices? And how much do they seek to follow the exact forms? I'm sure it probably varies from person to person, but I'm just wondering what the general trends are.

- Anahita *bouncing with excitement*

[Nitefalle]

Wow, this reminds me why I could never be a recon....intimidating amount of information!!! But very very cool, and I am definitely interested as a huge chunk of my heritage is Germanic, as well as my last name. So do Heathens not really practice "magic" much at all? It seems most of the time is spent learning about historic practices/life, honoring the gods through blots and symbuls and just living the code of ethics. What sorts of rituals are included in festival celebrations? Do they ever practice spells or anything of that nature? Why are more intuitive people considered fluffy in the conservative Heathen community? Aren't runes and practice with runes considered to be a sort of witchcraft in Heathenism? Sorry for the question overload :D

~N~

[aefentid]

I like the idea that heathenism is concerned with actual historical practices (as one of the essays pointed out), but how often is that really adhered to? It really depends, there are of course certain things we can't do and that I don't think even someone obsessed with historical accuracy would want to do, like human sacrafice. For other things we make substitutions like using mead or another beverage instead of blood when we blot. Or another good example is the charming of the plow, originally an actual plow would've been blessed, but since most of us don't have any plows laying around we would bless our gardening tools instead. I guess you could say where it's possible and when we have all of the information on a historical practice in general Heathens do their best to adhere to it.


Are most heathens well-educated about the historical practices? I would say the average Heathen is very interested in being educated in their religious practice, they probably aren't going to learn Old Norse or any other ancient language just so they can read an untranslated copy of source material or anything like that. They are going to want to study various source material to at least give their practices and their understanding of the gods context. On the other hand there are Heathens who will learn Old Norse, Old English, ect... They might also go to college to get a degree in something like Scandinavian studies . We also have a few Heathens who haven't even read the Eddas and don't think they need to.


And how much do they seek to follow the exact forms? I'm sure it probably varies from person to person, but I'm just wondering what the general trends are. Like you said it varies, I think generally most Heathens realize that Heathenry isn't a museum exhibit, it's a living religion, and while the basic forms are adhered to what we do has to make sense for today's world.

in frith,
Æfentid

[aefentid]

Wow, this reminds me why I could never be a recon....intimidating amount of information!!! Tell me about it, I love researching and it still intimidates me.

But very very cool, and I am definitely interested as a huge chunk of my heritage is Germanic, as well as my last name. Well, you don't have to be a Heathen to find any of the information useful for your own practices:) .

So do Heathens not really practice "magic" much at all?Some do, unless the magic they're practicing is related to Heathenry generally they'll keep it separate from their religion.

It seems most of the time is spent learning about historic practices/life, honoring the gods through blots and symbuls and just living the code of ethics. What sorts of rituals are included in festival celebrations?That's actually a huge question it depends on the festival and the Heathen or group, I'll be covering the festivals in week five, but until then you can take a look at the Ealdriht page on Holy Tides.
http://www.ealdriht.org/tides.html

For a more personal look here's the Hammerstead Blot Book it has examples of their rituals.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin/Blots/Index.htm


Do they ever practice spells or anything of that nature? Why are more intuitive people considered fluffy in the conservative Heathen community? Aren't runes and practice with runes considered to be a sort of witchcraft in Heathenism?There are forms of magic that are Heathen. Runes are the most widely respected form of magic in the Heathen community. There are also various traditional charms and bits of folk magic, people don't tend to discuss them much but thet aren't frowned on either. There's also seidr, it's what most of the more consevative types don't care for, it's also the sort of practice that intuitive types are drawn to which is part of what gets them labeled fluffy, the other part being that an intuitive person is more likely to find personal experience important while the more scholarly conservative type only wants to discuss and hear about facts.
Back to seidr, it's hard to describe seidr without going into great detail so I've copied and pasted something I wrote about it from another thread.


Most of the information we have on seidr, and I might as well add spae since the two terms are sometimes used interchangeablely, comes from the sagas. Erik the Red's saga contains the best description of seidr, although some people refer to what's described as spae (there's a description of it in the women and magic in the sagas link). There are also various passages in other sagas alluding to what was considered seidr including this from the Ynglingasaga:


Odin had the skill which gives great power and which he practiced himself. It is called seith, and by means of it he could know the fate of men and predict events that had not yet come to pass; and by it he could also inflict bane on men, or soul loss or waning health, or also take wit or power from some men, and give them to others. But this sorcery is attended by such ergi [a term meaning sexual, or spiritual, receptivity used as an insult] that manly men considered it shameful to practice it, and so it was taught to priestesses. . . .

and,


Odin could change himself. His body then lay as if sleeping or dead, but he became a bird or a wild beast, a fish or a dragon, and journeyed in the twinkling of an eye to far-off lands, on his own errands or those of other men. Also, with mere words he was able to extinguish fires, to calm the seas, and to turn the winds any way he pleased


excerpt from The Return of the Volva by Diana L. Paxson http://www.hrafnar.org/seidh/seidh.html (http://www.hrafnar.org/seidh/seidh.html)

The biggest problem with reconstructing these practices is that while we might know at least some of what comprised seidr, we really don't know exactly how it was practiced. Add to that the fact that the sagas were written by Christians who weren't exactly big fans of Heathen magical practice, and the constant debate in the Asatru community over every little detail about seidr.

What's being practiced now has been modernized, some groups such as Hrafnar use Harner style core shamanism and put it in a Northern cultural context to reconstruct seidr. There are arguments over whether or not seidr was shamanic and whether someone practicing any sort of Northern shamanism should refer to what they do as seidr. I'm undecided both sides have good arguments and I do think shamanic practice does have it's place in Heathenry, I'm just not sure if it should be called seidr.

Here are a few links about seidr
Women and Magic in the Sagas
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/seidhr.htm

Spae-Craft, Seidr, and Shamanism
http://www.thetroth.org/resources/k.../spaecraft.html (http://www.thetroth.org/resources/kveldulf/spaecraft.html)

Seidr, Magic, and Community - This one goes into reconstructing of seidr
http://www.thetroth.org/resources/j...lain-sac99.html (http://www.thetroth.org/resources/jenny/blain-sac99.html)



Sorry for the question overload :D
Don't worry about it I like questions :) .

in frith,
Æfentid

[banondraig]

what's a "symbel", and what is the difference between a symbel and a blot? so far as i understand, the main purpose of a blot is to sacrifice to the Gods, is that correct?

[PeleRising]

They're two separate families or tribes of gods. Here's a short list of them. The Aesir: Odin, Frigg, Thor, Baldr, Tyr, Idhun, and Bragi. The Vanir: Freyr, Freyja, Njord, and Nerthus.
In heathenry there are nine worlds: Asgard the home of the Aesir, Vanaheim the home of the Vanir, Midgard which is earth, Ljossalfheim home of the light alfs, Svartalfheim home of the dark alfs or dwarves, Jotunheim the land of the giants, Muspelheim the land of fire, Nifleheim the land of ice, and Hel the underworld.
Here's a diagram of the nine worlds
http://home.earthlink.net/~9worlds/worldtree.html



I was very surprised that the home of Aesir, was at the highest point on the Yggdrasil, then the home of the Light Alfs and then the homes of the Vanir and the fire giants. The Aesir as well as the Light Alfs are elevated over the Vanir? Or am I reading something into that graphic that wasnt intended? If that is intended, would this mean that the Vanir are closer to humans (their worlds are closer).

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I was very surprised that the home of Aesir, was at the highest point on the Yggdrasil, then the home of the Light Alfs and then the homes of the Vanir and the fire giants. The Aesir as well as the Light Alfs are elevated over the Vanir? Or am I reading something into that graphic that wasnt intended? If that is intended, would this mean that the Vanir are closer to humans (their worlds are closer).

I know I'm not aefentid, but, it's my understanding that according the Germanic lore the gods are considered to be the ancestors of man. So I would think that the placement of the Vanir is in to relation of that of the Aesir really isn't an intentional way of saying that the Vanir are less than the Aesir or that the Vanir are closer to man than the Aesir.

Also Aefentid, I've another question. Loki and Hel are generally considered in the pagan community at large to be gods in their own right, yet you didn't list them as being part of the Aesir or Vanir. If they're not of either of those groups what are they exactly? Or are they giants like you mentioned Skadi and Gerd are considered to be?

[Nantonos]

They're two separate families or tribes of gods. Here's a short list of them. The Aesir: Odin, Frigg, Thor, Baldr, Tyr, Idhun, and Bragi. The Vanir: Freyr, Freyja, Njord, and Nerthus.
In heathenry there are nine worlds: Asgard the home of the Aesir, Vanaheim the home of the Vanir, Midgard which is earth, Ljossalfheim home of the light alfs, Svartalfheim home of the dark alfs or dwarves, Jotunheim the land of the giants, Muspelheim the land of fire, Nifleheim the land of ice, and Hel the underworld.
Here's a diagram of the nine worlds
http://home.earthlink.net/~9worlds/worldtree.html


That diagram is very much influenced by the Qabalistic tree of life - it just misses out Chockmah and Binah and makes explicit the 'hole' in the mddle of the top hexagon (sorry I forget the name, it's where Yesod of the tree above falls when you stack up the four worlds on a helix).

Will go and look at the diagram some more, that was just a first impression before i forgot.

edited to add

However this diagram seems to fit the description of the worlds much better - as a ring of eight worlds centerd around Midgard, and all but two directly accessible from it.

That seems to fit much better than the essentially linear, top to bottom or bottom to top Quabalistic tree of life model. It also means Vanaheim is not 'below' Alfheim although it does show Hel and Asgard as separated off, the only routes being through Alfheim and Svartalfheim respectively.

http://home.earthlink.net/~9worlds/yggmaps.html

[Nantonos]

The Dark-elves live down in the ground, and they are as unlike the Light- elves in appearance as in nature. The Dwarfs or Svartalfs first took shape and acquired life in the flesh of slain Ymir, and were as maggots. But the Gods decided to gift them with consciousness, and human form, though they live in rocks and under the earth.

So dark elves and dwarves are the same?

:fofftopic boy thats going to annoy the LOTR fans and the elegant but angst-ridden Drow wannabees

[mothwench]

on that same site with the yggdrasil diagram, there are other maps, and a bindrune, of yggrasil: http://home.earthlink.net/%7E9worlds/yggmaps.html

also, other bits i found cool from that site was the image index. http://home.earthlink.net/~norsemyths/mythsframe.html the ones i found most interesting were the balder statues (phwoar... better than david! :lol: ), the images of idunna, freya under the apple tree by arthur rackham, and the norns... http://home.earthlink.net/~norsemyths/mythsframe.html
the norns were pictured weaving or plaiting string of some sort. and one of the pictures was called wyrd something. do the norns have something to do with wyrd?

[aefentid]

Lots of questions, I'm going to try to answer them all in one post.

Blot and symbel - A blot is a votive offering to the gods. It can be as simple as hailing a god and pouring some mead or other beverage for them, or more complex like the Hammerstead rites I posted a link to in my post to Nitefalle. A symbel is a group activity, it's a ritual round of toasts, boasts or oaths. There are usually three or more rounds where the Aesir/Vanir are toasted, as well as various heros from the lore and ancestors, participants might also boast of things they've done, and take oaths. Basically it can be a very rowdy drinking ritual.

The nine worlds- Mòrag gave the same answer I would've.

Loki, Hel, and Balder - Balder is the son of Odin and Frigg and definitely one of the Aesir. Loki can be considered Aesir in the Prose Edda Loki is counted among the Aesir, but you could also say he isn't Aesir, i've noticed both scholars and Heathens have a tendency to not see him as Aesir. In the lore he seems to be more of an outsider who's associated with the Aesir . Hel is Loki's daughter and I haven't seen her refered to as Aesir.

Dark elves and dwarves- Here's a little about dark elves and dwarves they aren't always necessarily the same thing:

The other variety of elves are the Dokkalfar (ON) and the Svartálfar (ON). The Dokkalfar or the "Dark Elves" are dark beings and many link them to the Niflungar of the Sigurd lays and many hold they dwell in Niflheimr, although this is also said of the Svartalfar by many today. Others feel the Dokkalfar may be the souls of dead men dwelling in mounds. It is difficult to say as even the ancient lore seems confused on the point. There may be no confusion at all however, as it could be that the dark elves dwelling in Niflheimr are nothing more than dead souls. The Svartalfar on the other hand may not be elves at all, but dwarves. They are said to dwell in Svartalfarheimr and to be ruled by Dvalin, who gave them the runes. One should be wary of calling on any of these creatures' aid as they may be tempermental or seeking their own aims. They are also thought to cause illness as many old terms for disease like elf-shot show. Elf shot was essentially dart shot into a person by the elves to cause illness, presumablly for some affront the human had made to the elves.

- From the Ealdriht's list of Wights (http://www.ealdriht.org/wights.html)

The Norns and Wyrd - To put it simply the Norns shape wyrd, also one of them Urd who rules "that which is" is also called Wyrd.

The Balder statue I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed how nicely sculpted he was:lol: .

in frith,
Æfentid

[Nantonos]

I wasn't clear on the difference between Gods and Wights. From earlier postings it seems that the esir,Vanir, and also Loki and Hel, are Gods. Are Wights localized deities, similar to the Genius Loci? Or are they seen as spirits or energy forms (probably not in those terms) or ghosts or ....

[Nantonos]

From the context I get the impression that by a boast means something different than the rather negative connotation in ordinary english (a boastful person, someone who exagerates their accomplishments and makes empty statements that are not backed up by fact). Is that right?

Also, is a boast regarding a past deed, or a pledge to a future action?

I am seeing similarities with the pledges made in the Religio Romana, where something was offered to a deity in return for help and, when the help was given, the debt was made good by dedicating the altar, making the offering, or whatever was promised and is indicated in inscriptions by VSLM (votum solvit libens merito, freely and willingly fulfilled his vow).

[aefentid]

I wasn't clear on the difference between Gods and Wights. From earlier postings it seems that the esir,Vanir, and also Loki and Hel, are Gods. Are Wights localized deities, similar to the Genius Loci? Or are they seen as spirits or energy forms (probably not in those terms) or ghosts or ....
Wight can refer to all sorts of beings including gods, people, and everything else you mentioned. Usually though it's used to refer to land-wights which are nature spirits, or house-wights which are basically household spirits which help around the house and also can bring luck to a household.

in frith,
Æfentid

[aefentid]

From the context I get the impression that by a boast means something different than the rather negative connotation in ordinary english (a boastful person, someone who exagerates their accomplishments and makes empty statements that are not backed up by fact). Is that right?

Also, is a boast regarding a past deed, or a pledge to a future action?In Heathenry a boast refers to something that you either have done or are going to do. With deeds and honor being so important in Heathenry not following through or lying about your accomplishments, is one of the worst things you can do.


I am seeing similarities with the pledges made in the Religio Romana, where something was offered to a deity in return for help and, when the help was given, the debt was made good by dedicating the altar, making the offering, or whatever was promised and is indicated in inscriptions by VSLM (votum solvit libens merito, freely and willingly fulfilled his vow). There is definitely some of that, historically a person might bargain with a god promising them things in exchange for answered prayers, and there is still some of that going on today.

in frith,
Æfentid

[mucgwyrt]

Can you give a definition of a Wight? I'm not sure I fully understand what one is :bigredblu

( :farmerjoe <-- Macha the uneducated hick, who's finding aaaaall this new info tough-going but is never afraid to ask! :toofless: )

:fpoke: PS would you reconsider your decision on not doing a section on Runes?
I know time's tight, but I would be very interested in what you have to say about them, their uses, their history etc etc etc. I imagine you have read a lot of books and can divulge to us the cream of your research *bow scrape grovel* :fpraise:

[Gala]

I"m feeling pretty lost here too.
Maybe it's because I don't have the time right now to devote to this.
I'll keep trying.

[mucgwyrt]

Also, what do "Disir (female guardian spirits), and Alfr (male guardian spirits)" guard?

[Anahita]

Thanks for your answer, aefentid. I'm already learning so much. This discussion is very interesting, and I spent a buttload of time of the Troth (www.thetroth.org) website yesterday too.

One quick question: are wight's spirits of the dead or more like elementals/spirits of a place? Are they related in any way to ancestral spirits like the disir? Ditto for elves (I know that's not the good way to spell it)?

- Anahita

[Nitefalle]

Ok, read through some of the articles you linked me to in your response....very cool Yule ritual to Frigg, to honor and bless the pregnant woman!!! I found it very inspiring and would like to try something similar this Yule.

On seidr, spae and volva....ok, so in the articles, I understand that these people, or at least the spae-kona and the volvas, were quite honored and respected in Heathen society. If so, why are they looked down upon today? Is it because there's no definite how-to lesson on them? Or is it because Heathens just aren't as interested in the magical side of things? Are modern female Heathens interested in that bit, since it was traditionally a female role in their society, back in the day? Why are the runes related to men's magic if almost everything else magical was practiced by females? Does that have to do with the origin of the runes?

Also, a little off topic, but....the Finnish are more related to the Siberian shamans? Or rather, the Siberian peoples? I know they're not Scandinavian or Germanic, but they are mentioned in some of the histories, so I was wondering if that was their origin.

~N~

[WolfMoon]

Ok, read through some of the articles you linked me to in your response....very cool Yule ritual to Frigg, to honor and bless the pregnant woman!!! I found it very inspiring and would like to try something similar this Yule.

On seidr, spae and volva....ok, so in the articles, I understand that these people, or at least the spae-kona and the volvas, were quite honored and respected in Heathen society. If so, why are they looked down upon today? Is it because there's no definite how-to lesson on them? Or is it because Heathens just aren't as interested in the magical side of things? Are modern female Heathens interested in that bit, since it was traditionally a female role in their society, back in the day? Why are the runes related to men's magic if almost everything else magical was practiced by females? Does that have to do with the origin of the runes?

Also, a little off topic, but....the Finnish are more related to the Siberian shamans? Or rather, the Siberian peoples? I know they're not Scandinavian or Germanic, but they are mentioned in some of the histories, so I was wondering if that was their origin.

~N~

I gotta agree with Nitefalle on the questions here. Why is there such a disparity between whats considered ok now and then?

[aefentid]

Wights

The word wight can refer to beings in general. For example in the lore you'll occasionally see people referred to as wights. However it is usually used to refer to spiritual beings, in particular spirits that inhabit the land and household spirits. You could say that wights are the Germanic equivilant of fairies. And Alfr and Disir are sometimes referred to as wights.

Alfr

There are several kinds of alfr. There are the alfr that inhabit ljossalfheim, who are often described as beings of light and great beauty. The swartalfr who are dwarves they resemble the dwarves found in fantasy novels and are well known for smithing. Then there are the alfr who are male ancestors who take an interest in their decendants and offer various gifts to their living kin.

Disir

Disir like wight and alfr has multiple meanings, disir can be used to refer to a living women, a female ghosts, goddesses for example one of Freyja's names is Vanadis, and female ancestoral spirits who continue to help their living kin. The last definition is the one that is most commonly used.

in frith,
Æfentid

[aefentid]

[

:fpoke: PS would you reconsider your decision on not doing a section on Runes?
I know time's tight, but I would be very interested in what you have to say about them, their uses, their history etc etc etc. I imagine you have read a lot of books and can divulge to us the cream of your research *bow scrape grovel* :fpraise:
I'm really too much of a beginner to do a lesson on the runes. But if you or anyone else wants to feel free to start a thread on the runes. I know some of the people taking the class are interested in the runes as well, so maybe we could have a thread where everyone could suggest sites, books, and tips for learning the runes.

in frith,
Æfentid

[aefentid]

Also, a little off topic, but....the Finnish are more related to the Siberian shamans? Or rather, the Siberian peoples? I know they're not Scandinavian or Germanic, but they are mentioned in some of the histories, so I was wondering if that was their origin.
I'm going to start with this question, I'll get to your other questions later tonight.

I really don't know much about the Finnish people but I did find this which might be helpful:

Until recently it has been thought that the first people did not arrive to Finland until just over 10,000 years ago. The established view had to be reassessed, however, in 1996 when stones worked by the human hand possibly as early as the lower Palaeolithic period (over 100,000 years ago) were discovered in a cave, Susiluola (http://www.nba.fi/ARCHAEOL/RESEARCH/susieng.htm) ('Wolf cave'). Research continues. Speakers of early forms of Finnish (http://www.hut.fi/home/jkorpela/finnish-intro.html), part of Finno-Ugric language family, are believed to have lived in Finland for 6,000 years (http://www.nba.fi/natmus/museum/opetus/asutus.htm). Few earlier settlers were of unknown descent, but the area (excluding the new findings from the Wolf cave) became inhabitable only after the end of the last big Ice Age some 8,000 years B.C. Archaeological finds of wood objects from east of the Ural mountains indicate that these people may have belonged to a hunting culture moving over very wide areas. One of the oldest items is a skid of a sledge dating back to 6900 B.C. Genetically Finns (http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/geeneng.html) are much closer to western European Germanic and also Baltic people than Asiatic people, though a part of the genetical features are common with Siberian people. Large areas in northern Europe may have been populated by Fenno-Ugrian (http://www.suri.ee/) tribes in the pre-historic era. Sámis (http://www.norut.no/barsek/ip/sam.html), the indigenous people of northern Finland, and Finns possibly split into distinct cultures some 6,000 years ago creating different languages as well, but the relation is not clear at all. Genetically current Sámis and Finns are different. An old theory claimed that Finns migrated (http://www.hyl.edu.hel.fi/sivut/comenius/fi/finfact.html) from areas between the Ural mountains and the River Volga, but this theory is doubtful for the lack of physical evidence. Later, Baltic Indo- European immigrants settled the coast merging with the native Comb-Ceramic culture and due to cultural exchange animal husbandry was introduced about 4,500 years ago.

http://ky.hkkk.fi/~k21206/finhist.html#pre

Another article I found that you might find interesting looks at the possible influences of Saami shamanism on seidr and the differences between the two. The Saami are an indigenous people who live in some of northern areas of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Russia. According to the article the Saami were often called Finns or Lapps in the sagas and histories, so this might be more of what you're looking for than the information from the other link.

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/ukkoskuuro/saasei.html

in frith,
Æfentid

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

:fofftopic From what I understand the Saami people are also believed to have travelled to the Orkney and Shetland Islands off the north-eastern coast of Scotland. Some of their beliefs, such as that of the selkies and fin folk (in the Orkney's they are considered to be seperate beings - the polar opposites of each other, whereas in the Shetlands they are one and the same), are evidence of that. Though belief in the selkies are common all along the northern and western coasts of Scotland and in the Western Islands. http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/selkiefolk/origins/origin3.htm

It's not clear whether or not these beliefs came there because the Saami's travelled there of their own accord before the incursions by the Norse, were brought over as slaves by the Norse, or as prominent members of influential Norse families.

[aefentid]

On seidr, spae and volva....ok, so in the articles, I understand that these people, or at least the spae-kona and the volvas, were quite honored and respected in Heathen society. If so, why are they looked down upon today? Is it because there's no definite how-to lesson on them? Or is it because Heathens just aren't as interested in the magical side of things?I would say the number one reason that some Heathens people who do seidr and other similar practices like spae, is historical accuracy. There just isn't enough information about how to practice those things and the people who are trying to reconstruct seidr have to use outside sources, usually they use core shamanism as a sort of foundation for the reconstruction of seidr. Which leads to the next problem that some Heathens have with seidr, it's debatable whether or not seidr was shamanic at all. Some Heathens think seidr was more like sorcery and dealt largely in manipulating the soul and negative magic, they get most of their examples of this from the sagas. And lastly there are Heathens who don't want to be associated with magic in any way, and view all magic as self-indulgent and flaky.

I'll add my personal opinion here. Like I said in an earlier post I don't know if what's being practiced today should be called seidr, because of the lack of information, maybe instead it should be called Northern shamanism or something like that. I do like the modern seidr practices though. In fact my own practices include a lot of modern seidr .

There aren't many books on seidr but if you're intersted in learning more here's a link to the best source for seidr I've seen
http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin/Seidhr/Index.htm

Are modern female Heathens interested in that bit, since it was traditionally a female role in their society, back in the day?There do seem to be more women than men interested in seidr. But there were some men involved with seidr historically and there are men involved today as well just not nearly as many of them.


Why are the runes related to men's magic if almost everything else magical was practiced by females? Does that have to do with the origin of the runes?This I'm not quite sure of, like I said elsewhere I'm a beginner when it comes to the runes. Hopefully someone else taking the class will know more and be able to tell you.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Nantonos]

Interesting that in Scots (which like English is a Germanic language, primarily) the word for a woman who has the Sight is a spae-wife. (Wife is used to mean woman, no particular connotation of marriage.)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Another quick question, before I move onto the next lesson. What are some of the main differences between the various Germanic peoples, like the Norse, Vikings (or are they the Norse?), Angles, Saxons, Danes and Jutes? Was it just location, or was it also religion, language and culture?

[aefentid]

Another quick question, before I move onto the next lesson. What are some of the main differences between the various Germanic peoples, like the Norse, Vikings (or are they the Norse?), Angles, Saxons, Danes and Jutes? Was it just location, or was it also religion, language and culture?
I'm feeling really lazy tonight, so I hope you don't mind if I answer most of your question with a quote.

The linguistic/anthropological term "Germanic" refers to a group of Northern European people who at one point shared a common language, culture and religion. By the year 500 CE, the Germanic culture had spread out into the areas of Europe which were to become present day Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Holland, and England. By the year 700 CE, the various dialects of the common-Germanic language were becoming mutually unintelligible and evolving into German, Dutch, English, and the Scandinavian languages.
http://www.wyrdwords.vispa.com/heathenry/reconstruction.html

Vikings was really just a descriptor for Scandinavian raiders that's often misused as a synonym for the Norse people.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Gala]

I am done....whew... but I can't say that I am any closer to understanding...
This is so much information.
I had a 3.6 in college, but now.... my brain is confuzzled.
please be patient.

[frigga]

So I'm reading some of the peotic edda and I came accross a passage that has me stumped. Everything I've read and heard so far has the sun being femine and the moon being masculine. However, in stanza 5 in Hollanders it says," The sun knew not what seat he had........The moon knew not what seat she had.". Is this just a misprint? Bad translation? Also, when they were talking about Heith, they say that she attracted wicked woman. Is this the modern definition of wicked or is it derived from the same roots as wicca, meaning wise? There are many different names given to the god/desses at different times, i.e. Ygg and Hropt for odin, Hlin for frigg, what do these other names mean and is there a list some where decribing the various names given in one culture? Lastly, Some books talk about some gods being different forms of other ones such as Vali and Ve actually being different aspects of Odin, and fulla and some of Frigg's other hand maidens being aspects of frigg. Whats the general view on that?

[Nantonos]

So I'm reading some of the peotic edda and I came accross a passage that has me stumped. Everything I've read and heard so far has the sun being femine and the moon being masculine. However, in stanza 5 in Hollanders it says," The sun knew not what seat he had........The moon knew not what seat she had.". Is this just a misprint? Bad translation?

Do you have access to any other translations? I agree its odd; its tempting to consider it bad translation since it fits in with classical gender assignments to the sun and moon. My suggestion would be to check the original text, if possible.

Aefentid, does the poetic edda derive from a single ms or are there multiple independent mss?

[Nantonos]

I am done....whew... but I can't say that I am any closer to understanding...

How do you mean 'done'?

Don't get discouraged, it won't all sink in the first time round. I deal with things like this by tying them to things that I already know and expanding out, it seems to make more sense like that.

[Nantonos]

Another quick question, before I move onto the next lesson. What are some of the main differences between the various Germanic peoples, like the Norse, Vikings (or are they the Norse?), Angles, Saxons, Danes and Jutes? Was it just location, or was it also religion, language and culture?

There are a couple of maps (large) that you might find helpful:

http://bibliothecagermanica.de/media/GermaniaTribes.gif
http://bibliothecagermanica.de/media/GermaniaMagna19c.jpg

more linked from

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/203739

The quote from Tacitus about the Langobards etc worshiping Nerthus is illuminated by seeing where those folks are on a map.
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=898301&postcount=14

In fact on the 19th century map,north of that region and sticking into the sea is an island marked 'Rugia vel Herthœ I.' Its very tempting to take that as the island of nerthus, and the tribes mentioned all forma block surrounding it to the south.

[aefentid]

So I'm reading some of the peotic edda and I came accross a passage that has me stumped. Everything I've read and heard so far has the sun being femine and the moon being masculine. However, in stanza 5 in Hollanders it says," The sun knew not what seat he had........The moon knew not what seat she had.". Is this just a misprint? Bad translation? Also, when they were talking about Heith, they say that she attracted wicked woman. Is this the modern definition of wicked or is it derived from the same roots as wicca, meaning wise? There are many different names given to the god/desses at different times, i.e. Ygg and Hropt for odin, Hlin for frigg, what do these other names mean and is there a list some where decribing the various names given in one culture?
It's probably just a typo, one thing to be aware of though is that Hollander tends to sacrafice accuracy to keep the original poetic form of the Edda, he also really likes archaic words which can make reading his translation headache inducing. It isn't an awful translation though, and can be useful but I would suggest getting Larrington's translation too, it's much easier to read and it's more accurate.

On the web I really like Thorpes translation
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/poetic2/index.php?PHPSESSID=1dd2931b8c08e8bd6ed1ffbcf50e0a65

By the way here's the fifth stanza from Thorpe's translation

5. The sun from the south,
the moon´s companion,
her right hand cast
about the heavenly horses.
The sun knew not
where she a dwelling had,
the moon knew not
what power he possessed,
the stars knew not
where they had a station.
About Heith, I've seen some discussion about that line, I do know off the top of my head that wicked in this case isn't derived from wicca which is Anglo-Saxon in orgin and might or might not mean wise depending on the which etymological theory you're looking at. In this case you have to remember that at the time the Edda was written magic was not looked on favorably so the line definitely means wicked and not wise. By the way Heith, Heide, or Heidh is also used as a descriptive term for female magic workers.

Odin's names Ygg means terrible one and Hropt means god, the maligned on or the hidden one.
Wodens Harrow has a list of his various names and meanings, I haven't found a list like this for any of the other gods.
http://home.earthlink.net/~wodensharrow/odennamn.html

Hlin means protectress and she's actually a separate goddess from Frigg
http://www.wyrdwords.vispa.com/goddesses/hlin/index.html


Lastly, Some books talk about some gods being different forms of other ones such as Vali and Ve actually being different aspects of Odin, and fulla and some of Frigg's other hand maidens being aspects of frigg. Whats the general view on that?
Historically it's doubtful that people believed any of the gods were aspects of each other. Most but not all Heathens today are hard polytheists, and see all of the gods as separate and individual.

in frith,
Æfentid

[Nantonos]

I came across this useful derivation of the word 'Aesir' by Chris Gwinn. He mentioned it in passing while discussing something else:


Note Aesir "Gods" and the singular Ass "God" come from Common Germanic *ansu- "god" (it retains the -n- in some Germanic dialects - note, for instance, ans- in the Old High German personal name Anshelm), which is derived from the PIE root, *ansu- "spirit".

PIE means proto-Indo-European, a theoretical root language from which other languages in that group are supposed to have derived.

[aefentid]

Nantonos, the Poetic Edda derives from one manuscript of twenty nine poems, however some editions add extra poems that are similar to the original Eddic poems.


I am done....whew... but I can't say that I am any closer to understanding...
This is so much information.
I had a 3.6 in college, but now.... my brain is confuzzled.
please be patient.
If there's anything I can explain better or anything you want to discuss feel free to post or pm me.

in frith,
Æfentid

[WHITE EAGLE +++]

I know the feeling the Aesir/Vanir were the first gods I really connected to, not that I didn't try with other gods just ignored me.
Æfentid

I like your choice of language here when you said, that "you connected with Aesir/ Vanir....and that other gods ignored you. " I find this interesting, because I feel that with in the last 3 or 4 months of soul searching I have identified Odin's call. I respect Him greatly and I wonder what it is he sees in me, and what he is trying to help me with. It's an exciting journey, and I will be patient. I have mixed feelings about working so closely with someone as powerful as He, as I'm not certain about the kind of commitment He is looking for.

But first I was told by a teacher, to know Him you must understand the culture the pantheon and even the language and the Runes. So Aefentid, I am here to absorb as much as I can about him and the other gods/goddess he seems to share space with. That is Thor and Freyja. I honor all three, as well as acknowledge Frigg and Freyr.


I get a very strong feeling when making contact with them or offering Rites to them. I think they are here to teach and bring out my courage and bravery as well as the arts and the RUNES.

That is my focus of study, and why I am thankful to have discovered your class! (actually my wife discovered it for me, she is always looking out for me and knows MW much better than I)

[Gala]

I like your choice of language here when you said, that "you connected with Aesir/ Vanir....and that other gods ignored you. " I find this interesting, because I feel that with in the last 3 or 4 months of soul searching I have identified Odin's call. I respect Him greatly and I wonder what it is he sees in me, and what he is trying to help me with. It's an exciting journey, and I will be patient. I have mixed feelings about working so closely with someone as powerful as He, as I'm not certain about the kind of commitment He is looking for.

But first I was told by a teacher, to know Him you must understand the culture the pantheon and even the language and the Runes. So Aefentid, I am here to absorb as much as I can about him and the other gods/goddess he seems to share space with. That is Thor and Freyja. I honor all three, as well as acknowledge Frigg and Freyr.


I get a very strong feeling when making contact with them or offering Rites to them. I think they are here to teach and bring out my courage and bravery as well as the arts and the RUNES.

That is my focus of study, and why I am thankful to have discovered your class! (actually my wife discovered it for me, she is always looking out for me and knows MW much better than I)


I'm being very nosey... who is your wife????

[Gala]

How do you mean 'done'?

Don't get discouraged, it won't all sink in the first time round. I deal with things like this by tying them to things that I already know and expanding out, it seems to make more sense like that.

Oh I just meant reading that thread... far from "done"


Thanks for the encouragment...!:)

[mothwench]

ya know, i saw skadi referred to as one of the Vanir today, is this correct? :huh: in fact the site listed quite a few as Vanir:

The Gods identified as Vanir are: Holde, Nerthus, Njord, Freya, Freyr, Od, Hnoss, Aegir, Ran, Ullr, Ulla, Gerdh, Skirnir, Heimdallr, Idunna, Bragi, Siofyn, Gefjon, Skadhi, Erde, the Undines, Svol, Ostara, Gullveig.