Missing teen-age girl may be with witchcraft follower

[Kaylara]

ALHAMBRA, Feb. 19: Police were searching this morning for a missing Alhambra girl who might have set up a rendezvous with someone she met over the Internet, possibly a practitioner of witchcraft.


Sarah Lofthouse, 15, was reported missing at 2:15 p.m. Friday, said Alhambra police Lt. Edith Lopez. The girl's last known location was at a Pasadena Vons supermarket on Colorado and Sierra Madre boulevards, she said.
Lofthouse's parents have told authorities and members of the media that the girl might have been off to meet someone she met over the Internet, possibly on a witchcraft Web site, Lopez said.

The teen-ager was described as 5'4", weighing 220 pounds, with brown eyes and long, wavy brown hair. She was last seen wearing a white top, black jeans and white tennis shoes, Lopez said.

"Sarah could not possibly do this on her own," her father, Paul, said of her disappearance. "Somebody, some group is behind this."

Her mother, Veronica, added: "Sarah is a sweetheart. She is not street smart. She has been sheltered and loved, and she loves back."

The missing girl's sister, Annie, also expressed the hope that she will quickly return to her family.

"We want her to be safe and hope she knows her family loves her and misses her," a weeping Annie Lofthouse said.

The family was interviewed by NBC4, which reported that the last sign of Sarah Lofthouse as of last night was an ATM withdrawal she made at the Vons in Pasadena about 4 p.m. Friday.

Anyone who might have seen the girl or knows her whereabouts was urged to call Alhambra police Detective John Smith at (626) 570-5168.


http://www.nbc4la.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FutureTense/Apps/Xcelerate/Render&c=NBCArticle&cid=NBC3OTD3EJC&preview=true

I am praying for the safe return of this girl. Aside from that, I am praying that she didn't meet some psycho.

Thoughts?

BB,
Kaylara

[mol]

I hope that the little girl's all right. i hope the media that wrote that article swallows his own tongue.

OOo..was that bad? Too bad...beyond BS this morning.

:D

[Lady Tana]

Originally posted by mol
I hope that the little girl's all right. i hope the media that wrote that article swallows his own tongue.

OOo..was that bad? Too bad...beyond BS this morning.

:D

I agree with Mol... tongue swallowing is what is deserved... the story would have been just as effective without the mention of witchcraft and the like.

[Wyrdsister]

Merry meet all,

I think it's pretty obvious that every mention of witchcraft in the above story was just tacked on to get a rise out of people. If you took out all the mentions of witchcraft, the story would be just as scary and awful but without the tabloid-like muck.

*sigh*

I too pray that she arrives home safe. I think I'll be thinking of her a lot today.

Praying for a safe return,

Wyrdsister

[Kaylara]

Disappearance: Girl's parents describe inordinate computer use, interest in witchcraft. Alhambra police are investigating but say there is no sign of foul play.


By GREG KRIKORIAN, Times Staff Writer

Whenever they would part, Veronica Lofthouse remembers, it became almost a ritual for her family of five in Alhambra to tell one another, "I love you."
But the last time she saw her youngest daughter, Lofthouse said Monday, something was different.
"This time, she said, 'I love you Mommy,' " Lofthouse, 53, said. "The emphasis was different . . . it was like she was saying goodbye."
Since last Friday afternoon, 15-year-old Sarah Lofthouse has been missing after withdrawing $200 in cash at a Vons in Pasadena.
Alhambra police have classified the teenager as missing, noting that Sarah contacted a friend by telephone just before 3 p.m. Monday. "At this time, there is no evidence . . . that any foul play is involved," Alhambra Police Lt. David Nater said in a statement Monday.
But the family of Sarah, described as sweet-natured but troubled, fear she has been spirited away--perhaps by someone she met over the Internet in a Web site dedicated to witchcraft.
"I think a group has her," an anguished Paul Lofthouse said Monday as reporters descended upon the family's home along a quiet street lined with magnolia trees.
Last Friday, say family members, Sarah Lofthouse as always finished her last class at Alverno High School in Sierra Madre, at 1 p.m. But instead of coming home, they say, she walked toward nearby Pasadena, accepting a ride en route from a girlfriend's mother who dropped her off at the supermarket.
Before disappearing, family members say, Sarah not only borrowed a blue knit cap from her mother but quietly rounded up some favorite letters and photos.
"If you were to put together a collage of Sarah, these are the [photos and letters] you would pick," said her eldest sister, Annie, 21.
But while the planning would suggest to some that the teenager was a runaway, Annie Lofthouse and her parents say there was no indication that Sarah was desperate to leave.
"There was no fight, no note," Annie Lofthouse said Monday. "Usually, they say, a runaway comes back within 24 hours. But she's been gone now for 72 [hours]."
Family members say they believe Sarah has been coaxed into leaving.
For the past year or so, they say, the 5-foot-4, 220-pound Sarah had retreated often into the world of the Internet, riveted for hours on a computer that sits on a desk in the family's front living room.
"My sister was very involved in the Internet and had 'friends' all over," said Annie Lofthouse, a student at UC Santa Barbara.
But it wasn't until her sister's disappearance, Annie Lofthouse said, that the family pried into Sarah's Internet correspondence, desperate for clues on how or why she vanished.
"Her friends said she was very secretive regarding the Internet," said Annie Lofthouse, who found a recent e-mail message referring to the pagan religion Wicca.
Family members said the Internet discoveries, like Sarah's disappearance, caught them by surprise. "The last time I saw her, we all had dinner in Santa Barbara," said Annie Lofthouse. "It was great . . . she seemed happy as ever."
And the night before she vanished, Paul Lofthouse, 53, said, his daughter insisted that he not order dessert at a nearby restaurant where the family had dinner. "She made me a Valentine's cake," he said.
Although police said Monday they have found no evidence of an Internet connection to the case, they said they will have the family's computer examined to see whether it contains any clues to the teenager's whereabouts.
Meanwhile, the girl's family received word of another cash withdrawal--for $140 from a bank machine in Indianapolis. "We don't have any acquaintances there," said Paul Lofthouse, convinced that the latest transaction proves his daughter is with someone, or a group, she met via the Internet.
"All I want her to do is come back," he said. "I want her to know that the family loves her . . . and that whatever it is she is going through we will work it out together."

This is from: http://www.latimes.com/news/state/20010220/t000015212.html

I have attached a picture of her family, please send positive energy their way.

bb,
Kaylara

[Kaylara]

Here they are.

[Kaylara]

And here is a picture of the missing girl, Sarah Lofthouse.

BB,
Kaylara

[Shatav]

Everyone needs their scapegoats these days. It's always easiest to blame the things you don't understand or don't want to understand for your own failings...unfortunately Wicca and witchcraft in general fall into this category as do many other misunderstood religions and faiths.

It's really a shame. I just wish more people would take responsibility for what they do themselves, or at least admit they don't know before trying to blame it on whatever nearest. If we all did this, just imagine what a nice world we'd live in...

I hope she finds her way home, or is at least happier where she is if she ran away for good reason.

[Braglorin]

I feel for the parents. I know that they/the media are blaming whatever they can, and I know that it looks bad for the pagan community. However, the majority of sane people reading the article will realise that it is purely conjecture on the parties involved, and there isnt even any circumstantial evidence that she went off with another person, let alone describe that person as a practitioner of witchcraft. It is purely speculation on the part of the parents, and whilst the police are looking at the puter to find clues, they have not said that they think it is net or pagan related.

I just hope that this kind of thing will prompt people to find out what their kids are doing online. You wouldnt let your kids chat with just anyone in the street, and it is the same online. They should be monitored - not by software, but by a person - and whilst the ethics of reading their personal mail is up for grabs, you should at the very least be reading the history file. Having the puter in the family room is not enough. You need to be nosy. Sneak peeks at what thye are doing, bring them drinks, shout things like "Whatcha doin'" every now and again, and pry - without invading privacy if possible - into where they go. Secretiveness like that is a sign of trouble, just like it is where drugs, alcohol and smoking are concerned. If your child is becoming secretive past that of a normal paranoid teenager then you need to start being nosy. they wont appreciate it, but hey - ttbomk teenagers dont apprecaite anything ;)

We already have a simple rule structure set up - and when LL is old enough to understand each section she will be introduced to it. She already knows not to click on an advert of any description, or any email address. But there will be one simple rule that must not be disobeyed. There will be no emptying of the cache or history file etc except by myself or my hubby. If she empties them, her net priviledges will be removed immediately.

But as I said, I feel for the parents. It must be horrific to not know where your child has gone, and regardless of who they think she is now with, they must be going through a terrible trauma. I hope that the child is ok, and that she is safe, and I hope that her friends and family keep well, and that they learn from this and keep their loved ones near and safe.


Blessings**Braglorin

[Kaylara]

ALHAMBRA, Calif. (AP) -- A teen feared to have vanished with an Internet witchcraft practitioner is in the custody of Ohio authorities and wants to return home, police said Wednesday. The girl was alone and unharmed when found.

Sarah Lofthouse, 15, vanished Friday afternoon from a grocery store near her home in this suburb 10 miles east of Los Angeles. ATM records showed she withdrew $340, the last withdrawal made Saturday at an Indianapolis bus station.

On Tuesday, Alhambra police received a call, said Alhambra police Lt. David Nater. Dayton, Ohio, police found Sarah at a pay phone at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday.

"Sarah's family has been notified and is looking forward to being reunited with Sarah," Nater said. "She is currently being cared for by juvenile authorities in Ohio, pending arrangements for her to return to California."

Authorities had listed Sarah as a missing person with no evidence of foul play.
Found at:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/calreport/calrep_story.cgi?story=N2001-02-21-0345-0.html

Thank the Lord and Lady!

Just thought that you all would like the update!

BB,
Kaylara

[Sequoia]

Hey, did they ever find out why the girl left?

witchcraft, bah. -_-; I swear, they'll blame ANYTHING on the internet and people you meet several hundred miles away. . . I personally have met a GREAT deal of people online who are trust-worthy. The thing is, you can JUST as easily tell if a person is icky or bad online as you can IRL. People can disguise themselves in real life, too, but the thing about online is that you are presenting yourself as you can communicate writtenly. . . so you're showing a bit more of yourself (in most cases). And people can just as easily disguise themselves online or IRL. You wouldn't trust someone you met on the street fifteen minutes before, would you? Why trust someone online like that? *shrugs*

[Illuminatus]

Stupid Girl Runs Away, Stupidly Leaves ATM Trail And Is Found is not news. My livejournal has better stories on it.

[mato]

:lol:
Ok so what she left and was stupid enough to leave a paper trail, ok... No expert but it sounds like a cry for help.
Now about that teenage privacy thing, I know it is supposidly your roof and your rules as the parents but mind you we have to live there, and who is going to take care of you in your old age? Um I value my privacy above all else, when my mother invaded that (because my room was too clean! and there were books in there! my god any other mother would have smiled and closed the door!) she and I both knew that although I would pay for the nursing home she was NEVER going to live with me. :lol: oh I am so cruel, and I can hold a grudge too! :T
Just a little food for thought.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Ahhh, the lengths journalists and the media industry as a whole will go to to get a rise out of people. It kind of makes me sick. They don't consider their impact on people, i.e. practionners of witchcraft, Wicca and other related Pagan traditions.

I can understand wanting to get this article noticed, but there are ways of doing this without discriminating against a gorup of people.

Thats all I have to say.

[Xander67]

Im sorry
I feel that as long as a child is living under your roof
that child is YOUR responsibility untill he or she turned 18 or unless you emmancipate it...

It is not only your responsibility , it it your DUTY as a parent to make sure he/she is cared for, and safe...

I say duty because as a parent there are certain things you do out of necessity and because if you dint, you can be charged with child neglect

why the intro??? because, I feel the parent should know all about what the child does, and should know who he/she is talking to when online...let them know from the door, Look you can play but at anytime I feel your safety is involved, I will look at your files to insure you are not being stalked or "Brainwashed" ...lets face it, there are alot of sicko's out there.. I think your child being safe is alot more important than "mom, thats not right for you to look at my stuff"


if you dont want your parents snooping, too bad, get a JOB get your own place and pay the bills! it is thier home and as long as they are responsible and liable for anything you do online it is thier right to at least make sure you are safe!

had this girl's parents been more aware of her online activities, or at least some kinda net safetyu was taught to her, this may have been avoided...

Im very sorry for her family and I do hope she is safe, but it is crap like this that only makes the need for child safety awareness and education as well as child safety regulations, more dire!

I dont get it, parents moan and groan at city council meetings about how the city needs a playground....why ???aint no kids gonna play on it, they are all home on the darn internet in chatrooms being lured away by some pedophile in god knows where!

we need to get our kids OFF the web, (Not totally, it is good for education and fun stuff) and back on the swings, get them back into art, computers are great but how can we expect our civilization to evolve when we are encourageing its extinction...

there is more to life than chat rooms and mouseclicks

If a child grows up and all he cares about is the internet, chat rooms and making money??? how is he gonna make any money when no one cares about art, music or literature and th\eater, cause the parents of that child let him be on the pc all day and did not encourage his or her interest in the arts...


yes, im angry! who ultimately are people going to blame in this , not witchcraft , not the internet, but the parents! im sure someone will say "they should have been more concerned" well not if they did not know any better, kids are alot smarter and half the time the parents dont even know how to use computer..

so then whos fault is it, lack of regulations? lack of awareness?? lack of more cultureal things in the community??
there is always another way of looking at things...

[Sequoia]

there is more to life than chat rooms and mouseclicks


. . . ^^; forgive me, although I agree with much of what you're saying, I find it rather ironic that that is being said on an online message board. . .


all in all, though, I think that while yes, parents do have some rights as to their kid's things, I think that children also deserve the same privacy as anyone else. Teenagers, at least. Little kids, I can understand. But once they hit puberty, there are some things they're going to want to keep secret, even if it's just some blurb in their diary about how some guy in their class who was cute looked at them. I know it really peeves me when my dad goes digging (^^; literally) through my room, for absolutely no reason. Sorry dad, you're not going to find drugs and satan-worshipping items in my bedroom. -_-; honestly. There is a line, a limit. The problem is, so many parents aren't reasonable. And they'll jump to just about any conclusion. For example, the girl who ran away. Her parents suddenly decided to chew out the computer, yell about the internet, and whine about their kid becoming convinced to go with a bunch of ooh wooogie woogie pagan kidnappers. Gimmie a break. Perhaps if they'd been more into their daughter's life, they'd know WHY she left. There's always the child's story. But most people don't take the time to hear it. Maybe her parents were emotionally abusive, so she turned to the computer because at least there she had friends. And one day she decided she was sick of her family treating her that way, and left. Or she could've felt ignored, neglected, hated, hurt, or a hundred other feelings. She's a teenager. We've been running away since the beginning of time. The internet is becoming just another scape goat to be used. Kids used to run away to "join the circus." Now they run away to "find their REAL friends!" . . . . umm? and? a thousand years from now it'll be kids running away to "join the space pirate guild!!"

If there seems to be something wrong going on with your child, then yes, look around a bit. But don't be so d*mn obvoius about it and doing blab about it to your kids. Say you were looking for crack, but instead you find ooh a note about your daughter's friend having sex at a party. Dont' go "OMG SUZIE HAD UNPROTECTED SEX WITH JAKE AT ANETTE'S PARTY!?!?" at about three billion decibals in front of god and everyone. You might ask your daughter to talk to you a bit later, and then not mention suzie or anything, but ask her about sex and stuff. It'd be a perfect time for the birds and the bees talk. Even if you've had it, elaborate. Ask her if she's got any questions. Ask her what she thinks about sex, and everything. What safe sex is to her. If she knows the risks, etc. Same thing for if you happen to find a condom in her drawer or something. Dont' accuse. Talk. Don't even mention it unless you have concerns. And even then, don't attack. Ask her if she is, if she's being safe. And if she's taking precautions, tell her you're proud for that.

But way too many parents think they can just barge into your room, then spread everything they find around the house, and rant about it in front of everyone you know. This is why most teenagers hate their parents. We're at the point that we'd like a little privacy, too. You wouldn't want us going into your rooms snooping around. Sure, it's your house, but you might want to set an example of respect. If our own parents don't respect us, how are we to respect ourselves?

[Yvonne Belisle]

I go through my kids things when they aren't there because I love them and I can't protect them if I don't know what's going on. I have found that the parents will get the blame either way. They were too nosey so the kid hid stuff and pushed them away ...they didn't care enough and now the kids gone. It's a two way street and a difficult line for a parent. Yes kids deserve respect but there are some areas that sometimes need more watching. I think both arguements are right. I do random checks they help me to know what is important to my kids right now. I don't tell them I looked I just steer conversations around to certain topics when I feel they are nessesary and I don't let my kids on the net unless an adult is there. Mine are still pretty young but they are trusting loving kids and it's my job to make sure they stay that way while learning about danger. I will do whatever I feel is nessesary to protect them.

[Old Witch]

I've raised 3 sons on the premise, There's no privacy in this house!" Two of them are grown, and have their own homes and no police records! The third is a junior in high school, stays on this computer until bedtime and gets totally P.O'd when I look over his shoulder. I darn tootin' know who he's talking too, but he says he couldn't possibly be talking to anyone as strange as I talk to. It's hard being a pagan parent.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Twilight Garden]

It may have been the parent's bashing of paganism or inflicting christianity that made the youngster run. "My parents don't/won't understand me." I try real hard to not make any religion out to be negative to my step-daughter. She knows what I do, but also knows that I have many friends that do many other things. I always say to her... "all things in moderation"...which I got from my Catholic father. But that includes religion. When it becomes fanatical or obsessive it becomes a negative thing. Whether this should be directed at the parents or the girl, I don't know...

[mato]

Well as I said, we hold your futures in our hands!
Muahahahahaha

Your say might be final now.... but in a few years.... :smoke: I can wait...

MUAHAHAHAHAHA

[flar7]

in a few years it will be you worrying about your kids...
As kids we all say, "I will never treat my own kids this way!"
And as adults we discover the truth, with age comes more
responsibility. We have to do SOME(not all) of the things our parents did for the welfare of our children.

If my kid used the internet, I GUARANTEE I would know who he was talkin to, and when. Kids always cry and whine about it not being fair or respectful of their privacy, Life is not fair. The
majority of kids tough it out, find out their parents were right, and
go on. The minority run away or take drastic actions.

If you are a Juvenile it might interest you to know how few rights
you actually have. And the bizarre ones you do have!

[Faery-Wings]

Originally posted by flar7
in a few years it will be you worrying about your kids...
As kids we all say, "I will never treat my own kids this way!"
And as adults we discover the truth, with age comes more
responsibility. We have to do SOME(not all) of the things our parents did for the welfare of our children.



I can't tell you how true this is! And mine are still young, but I know I am going to be a tough and involved and loving mom when my kids are teens.

I am very happy this girl was found. I agree that it was more of a cry for help. It sucks that the media has to immediately assume "witchcraft." :( However, we know that there are sites out there of people claiming to be witches who are anything but. And is she was hooking up with that type, then she would have been in a *lot* more trouble than if she hooked up with a "real" witch.

I hope this is a good wake up call to her parents.

BB

Chris

[seawitch]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
I go through my kids things when they aren't there because I love them and I can't protect them if I don't know what's going on. I have found that the parents will get the blame either way. They were too nosey so the kid hid stuff and pushed them away ...they didn't care enough and now the kids gone. It's a two way street and a difficult line for a parent. Yes kids deserve respect but there are some areas that sometimes need more watching. I think both arguements are right. I do random checks they help me to know what is important to my kids right now. I don't tell them I looked I just steer conversations around to certain topics when I feel they are nessesary and I don't let my kids on the net unless an adult is there. Mine are still pretty young but they are trusting loving kids and it's my job to make sure they stay that way while learning about danger. I will do whatever I feel is nessesary to protect them.

i do the same thing with my girl, she is 11 and it doesn't bother her. well sometimes, but she is getting used to it, she maybe only 11. but i have noticed warning signs in her friends. we have a open, honest ,relationship.
so when i see a behavior in one of her companions. that i don't want her to pick up i talk to her about it and explain why i think the behavior is unexceptable. she most always agrees and some times she's the one to say " mom did you see how she was acting?" that always warms my heart

[mato]

Originally posted by flar7
in a few years it will be you worrying about your kids...
As kids we all say, "I will never treat my own kids this way!"
And as adults we discover the truth, with age comes more
responsibility. We have to do SOME(not all) of the things our parents did for the welfare of our children.

I guess thats the ultimate cycle of vengence than, but wait a minute... I'm gay! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I wont have any kids! and another cycle is broken...

Being gay has it's advantages, no kids until I actually want one is just one (unless I get involved with a single father, you think being a step mom is difficult, try being the step father!)

[lucidfire]

it's strange how they put that, "a group has her." Ahh don't you love to see propaganda at work; you can go to jail but you're still not an individual, boy I'll love to see how far they think they can take this "none of the benefits, all of the responsibilities of being an adult" thing. Then people wonder why all these young people freak out; it doesn't take a rocket scientist

[MammaStar]

I too, am happy the girl was found safe & sound. I know that myself, my son who is 9, is not allowed on the internet, unless Eshallet or I am around. Not his grandparents, not his uncles or Aunts, it has to be me or Eshallet and that's final. Since he's 9, i have all those "Parental controls" set. He can IM anyone & can't receive any IM's as well & his emails are quite limited. Now, since he's 9, this situation is fine for now. However, speaking as a Mommy & a child who was left to her own devices with 2 brothers as a teen, I KNOW I'm gonna be a hard-a$$ when it comes to my son. Because I have been there. I've done it all and yes, that frightens me for the tougher questions & the answers that come back at me. My Mom, tried really really hard to be there for us, but things went on with her & she left me & my 2 bro's alone nearly every weekend from when I was 15 on. So we acted like any normal teens would when their folks were away. Mom is just finding out now (we're 32, 31 & 29) the crap we pulled.

Because of how I grew up, I know I will change how I am. My Mom cracks me up, cause she tells me I'm too hard on my son. I have the nerve to expect his room cleaned & chores done before he goes on the computer or out to play. Aren't I horrible!

I'm a Mean Mommy & will continue to be till he's grown & out the house, happy, relatively un-scarred & no police record (unlike his 2 uncles :lol:).

[Angelwulfe]

it was deffinatley i cry for help and attention most all. what the media fails to realize is whether or not she was involved in witchcraft really isn't the point.

[TheTheologin]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
I go through my kids things when they aren't there because I love them and I can't protect them if I don't know what's going on. I have found that the parents will get the blame either way. They were too nosey so the kid hid stuff and pushed them away ...they didn't care enough and now the kids gone. It's a two way street and a difficult line for a parent. Yes kids deserve respect but there are some areas that sometimes need more watching. I think both arguements are right. I do random checks they help me to know what is important to my kids right now. I don't tell them I looked I just steer conversations around to certain topics when I feel they are nessesary and I don't let my kids on the net unless an adult is there. Mine are still pretty young but they are trusting loving kids and it's my job to make sure they stay that way while learning about danger. I will do whatever I feel is nessesary to protect them.

As a teenager I HATED when my mother snooped through my stuff. IMO It was my life not hers. Now that I have my own child IITA with Yvonne. It's a two way street. I'm sorry but if my child is acting a different way than normal...........you are d@mn straight I will go through her stuff. Hopefully my child will feel comfortable enough to tell me what's going on in her life but that's not too realistic.

[seawitch]

puma hime i definately believe a parent should use discresion.
but it should only be natural to have equal access, to all rooms my girl comes into my room uninvited.
unless the door is locked.
and i freely enter her room unless her door is shut
if i thought she was up to something i would just walk right in
it is my job to keep her safe.

but some peoples parents :rolleyes:

[StormChaser]

You know Xander, that is probably the first thing you have ever said that angers me to the Nth degree.

Sounds just like my uncle who has cameras all over his house to watch his daughter, who listens to her conversations with her friends, and doesn't allow her on the net, even to talk to me.

If children are never trusted just HOW are they to learn to be trust worthy? How will you know if you can trust them?

My mother didn't pry or snoop. She never asked who I was talking to, where I was going, or pestered constantly about what was going on in my life. And I am still, psycho free. I don't do drugs or drink. And sex, sex is no sin. I'm as safe as I need be, and I take care of myself. That's far more important to her than who I engage in sexual acts with.

But she and I have something that DID keep me from doing those things. Communication. Because she never pried snooped or made everything out there into a positively negative bad or evil thing... because she never took anothers side over mine, because she always believes me first,.. I trust her. And my trust in her is the reason we can talk about everything, it's the reason I never committed suicide, and the reason I have half a lick of sanity.

I can tell you exactly where your child will be when you show them lack of respect for their privacy, and their trust.. and what happens when they lose faith in you, your trustworthyness, and your honest care for their wellbeing.

They wind up dead, wishing they were, or having doubts on themselves. Your judgement, as children seek to impress and gain recognition from its family and community, means everything.

By not trusting a child and snooping you tell them they are a sneak, dishonest or uncommunicative. If a child believes he is a genius because a parent tells him so, what do you think these ACTIONS are going to make this child believes.

The more my uncle drills into his daughter that she is a suspicious being.. the more sneaky she gets. The more she goes against his grain and tries to find ways around his mandates.

The judgement of my ex's aunt, led to her murder. Rather than tell her parents she was pregnant, she chose to elope, and her boyfriend killed her. All because she was afraid to tell her parents the truth for fear of what they would think, say or do. She couldn't trust them... so she is dead.

Many gay children commit suicide, and lower levels of self worth, because they couldn't trust themselves to be open with their parents. Or they tried to withhold the truth from their parents, knowing that they would only judge and condemn them.. and then thier parents snoop and find out what they did not want to know.

No, this girl ran away. Her parents did everything "right" according to your views.. and they blamed wiccans witchcraft and the net for thier daughter running away. She probably ran away because she was sick of being sheltered. Sick of having someone constantly snoop through her stuff trying to figure out who she was or what she was up to. Gee.. they found pagan stuff.. maybe she couldn't TRUST her PARENTS with the TRUTH. Perhaps because of their dishonest *which is what sheltering inevitably means* nature, she couldn't impart to them that she was interested in Wicca. Apparently she was right not to trust them, because look what happened when they found out.

Communication not Snooping and Surveillance, is the key.
Using your ears and then judging only with your heart not with your religious doctrine or personal set of beliefs, is what is going to help a child.

Ever notice it's always the kids in the perfect familys with the perfect lives, who always make cases like this?

I gotta wonder how many girls are actually out there that say "i love you mommy" every time they leave the house.. and how many moms can tell the intonation differences.

Seriously, this is like, the third or fourth case I've heard of just like this in the past 2 years.

What a bloody crock.
~Storm

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by TheTheologin

I'm sorry but if my child is acting a different way than normal...........you are d@mn straight I will go through her stuff. Hopefully my child will feel comfortable enough to tell me what's going on in her life but that's not too realistic.

Differently than normal is an entirely diffrent case than daily snooping.

But long before I'd ever sneak around my kids belongings, I would be sitting down with them and engaging in heart to hearts, if it takes a week out of school for them to dish the dirt.. Mom's gonna get to it.

Trust is a realistic expectation, Communication IS a realistic expectation, if you prove to your child just as they must prove to you.. that you are capable of being both trustworthy, and communicating openly.. without attack or judgement.

~Storm

[Shadowulfe]

Originally posted by TheTheologin


I'm sorry but if my child is acting a different way than normal...........you are d@mn straight I will go through her stuff. Hopefully my child will feel comfortable enough to tell me what's going on in her life but that's not too realistic.

In the Case of Angelwulfe's sister acting differently than normal is all the time!! What would you do in a case like that!! and she is all about having her privacy but invading everone else's privacy.....sorry for going off topic somewhat, but in a case like that what would you suggest to do?

[Angelwulfe]

my parents really arn't all that nosy and then again there not here very much but my sister is always acting real sneaky and suspicious. she spends every waking hour with her friends or on the phone with them. thats cool to a piont but when it interferes with her school work and she try's to hide her bad grades and then gets really pissed when my mom starts e-mailing her teachers to find out how she's actually doing. when ever she gos out with friends she never tells us what thier doing or where they'll be at she just says "we're chilling". one time she got escorted home by a cop because she got busted for smoking pot. my parents tried to talk to her about it and she's like "it's none of your f***ing business."
they were'nt even screaming at her or anything they just wanted some clarity and wanted to talk it out.

[StormChaser]

Privacy, Respect, Trust, Communication.. these are huge issues, and shouldn't be taken lightly. If you are having problems with any of them they should be addressed directly and quickly. Problems with these issues can be thought of in many cases, warning signs, giant beacons going off to alert you of other far more detrimental problems that you teen\child may be facing or soon to come up against. But the first problem that leads to all the others, if addressed and fixed, can be the antidote and vaccine to all the rest. The first problem, being that most children\teens, have no one who will listen when they talk.

"But I'm there for my child" "I tell her I love her all the time" "He knows I'm supportive"
Are you? Do they? Telling and showing are two different things. Love, Trust, Respect.. Contrary to popular belief.. these are NOT nouns... these are VERBS. We all need "proof" to believe in them. We all need to be taught how to "do" them, and take part in them. Children\teens are in no less need.

Hypocracy in teaching doesn't work. Your entire point is lost because you do not stand by your words. Your actions show that these behaviors are neither necessary nor constant standards of the proper way to be. Teaching "Do as I say not as I do" gives the other person a way to make everything you have stated blow right up in your face. "Why should I respect your privacy and not look through your stuff! You look through mine?! Why should I have to knock? You never knock? Why should I clean my room, your rooms a mess? Why shouldn't I smoke or drink or have sex? You do it!".. There comes a point when "Because I said so" *which essentially means to a teens ear "because I'm full of crap, I think I'm God, I'm older and your diddly squat." just doesn't cut it.

Having trouble with privacy? Sit down and talk about it! As a parent, family member, friend, say "Listen, I don't want to pry, so I'm going to ask you directly a few yes or no questions.. and I need honest answers." Voice your concerns. Ask about the internet problems "Are you talking to older people? What do you talk about? Are you doing anything illegal? I know that may have been a silly question, but I am concerned for you" "Is there a reason you have started locking your doors? Is everything Okay? Should I be worried? Is everything alright at school? With your friends? Encountered drug problems? You know I went though.... at school".
Relate some of your past experiences, try to share information, rather than lie about your past. You want to be someone cool, and trustworthy someone they can up to.. that means you've got to open up first. Silly, but it's the truth. And like any relationship.. theres upkeep.

~Storm

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by Angelwulfe
my parents really arn't all that nosy and then again there not here very much but my sister is always acting real sneaky and suspicious. she spends every waking hour with her friends or on the phone with them. thats cool to a piont but when it interferes with her school work and she try's to hide her bad grades and then gets really pissed when my mom starts e-mailing her teachers to find out how she's actually doing. when ever she gos out with friends she never tells us what thier doing or where they'll be at she just says "we're chilling". one time she got escorted home by a cop because she got busted for smoking pot. my parents tried to talk to her about it and she's like "it's none of your f***ing business."
they were'nt even screaming at her or anything they just wanted some clarity and wanted to talk it out.

Serious problems here. This is more than just seeking privacy. This is detachment. Theres another problem here and it may actually require a therapist, or a really really good, safe friend. It could be you. Sounds like shes bottled up and is striking out.

When I was 14 I was babysitting my cousin anna and her brother robbie. Robbie was 2, but autistic, and anna was a normal 5 year old..well.. a little bit of a brute and trouble maker. Well I was in the living room she went to her bedroom.. apparently angry at all the attention robbie was taking from her. Well she was making a lot of noise.. which was fairly normal.. toy sounds.. talking barbies.. Then it stopped dead silent. I picked up robbie and raised my voice inquisitively "Anna.. what are you doing". The response I got was a shrill "NOOOOOOOOOOTHING!!!!!!!!!!"
I marched ot her bedroom.. There was her moms make up smeared all over the mirror. her fancy dresses crumpled in balls on the floor.

Abnormal Silence accompannied by seemingly unwarrented anger.
It's a scary theme.

There are definitely other problems here than simple teenage rebellion. And you've got to get to the heart of it... and yes.. whatever it takes... but the first attempt should always be letting your support, your love, and your trustworthyness be known.. the next step is asking all the questions.. Especially the scary ones. "Why are you doing this? are you mad at someone? Did someone hurt you? Were you raped? Has anyone taken advantage of you? ...."
worst case scenario is doing all the sneeky snoopy stuff.
Hopefully you can solve the problem without outside sources.. but like i said, sometimes therapy is necessary.

Check out the book: Reviving Ophelia.
Perhaps get her a copy.

~Storm