The Official Mystic Wicks Satanism FAQ.

[Muireannach]

Hello All!

After seeing the interest, misconceptions, and frequent questions that I get from those wondering about Satanism, I have decided to devote a thread to the topic to promote a degree of understanding to those of willing ears. This FAQ is designed to be brief and stripped down to the essentials; however, click on names and subjects to find a link to a more in-depth resource.

Before I continue I would just like to say that this is not a thread of attempting to convert anyone or promote my beliefs. This thread was made with good intent and is not tainted with self-promotion or recruitment.

Note: I will add more in the future and will continue to update this thread as time goes on or if interest grows in this little project of mine! lol

That being said I present to you:

The Official MysticWicks Satanism FAQ:
Or:
"Mommy Why do the Satanists get Mad When I Flip Their Pentacle Right Side Up?"


__________________________________________________________________________

Section One: The FAQ

Do you guys believe in Satan?
No, Satan is just an archetype in our view. We are athiests and do not believe such an entity exists.

If you don't believe in Satan, why do you call ourselves "Satanists?"
Through readings of philosophy and the bible we believe that Satan was in fact the image of the "human animal." We find that our actions and views on the world are in line with the mythical figure of Satan.

Please Read The Nine Satanic Satanic Statements in Section Two.

The Christians have the cross, the pagans have the pentacle, what is your symbol?
The inverted pentacle or the "baphomet"

"In the middle ages the Baphomet was believed to be an idol, represented by a human skull, a stuffed humans head or a metal or wooden human head with curly black hair. The idol was said to be worshipped by the Order of Knights Templar as the source of fertility and wealth. In 1307 King Phillip IV of France accused the Order of the Knights Templar of heresy, homosexuality and among other things, worshipping this idol and anointing it with the fat of murdered children. However, only 12 of the 231 knights interrogated by the church admitted worshipping or having knowledge of the Baphomet. Novices said they had been instructed to worship the idol as their god and savior, and their descriptions of it varied: it had up to three heards and up to four feet; it was made of either wood or metal, or was a painting, sometimes it was a gift."

Exert from this (http://www.satanic-kindred.org/baphomet.htm) website.

http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:QBjRn2vTnA8J:www.it.bond.edu.au/inft140/lecture05/images2/baphomet.jpg

Why do you say "Hail Satan"?"
Hail Satan is an equivalent to "Hail Me."

Do you believe in God?
We are athiests....

Do you believe in the Afterlife?
We are athiests....

Who started Satanism and is he alive today?
Anton LaVey (http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/LaVeyBiography.html) (1930-1997) began Satanism and passed away in 1997 of heart ailments on the 29th. He began the Church of Satan in May 1966 after much inspiration from his various careers and readings of philosophy. The Church of Satan is now headed by his former secretary turned wife Blanche Barton (mother of Xerxes LaVey) with the assistance of his eldest daughter Karla LaVey. One of his daughters, Zeena LaVey is currently in a legal dispute over ownership. (My personal input: Zeena LaVey has no right as Anton left it to Blanche Barton in his will.....)

Anton wrote quite a few books including The Satanic Bible, The Satanic Witch and The Satanic Rituals, The Devil's Notebook, and Satan Speaks. He also recorded a few rather eerie albums such as Satan Takes a Holiday.

Fun Fact: He played the devil in the classic film Rosemary's Baby.

Here is his picture:
http://www.av1611.org/images/crock/amysalu2.jpg

What influences did LaVey use to create Satanism?
Aleister Crowley, John Dee & Kelly, Chaos Magic, Kabballah, The Knights Templar, Quantum Physics and Nietzsche.

Are Satanists selfish and cruel?
There are people out there who call themselves "Satanists" who actually are not part of the Alien Elite (see below) who may be that way. That being said I will delve into the "ego" of the Satanist.

We love ourselves, take pride in our selves, and offer love to those who we see as deserving rather than love wasted on ingrates. We tend to avoid people who irritate us or attempt to harm ourselves or those near to us. We reject people who generally commit The Nine Satanic Sins (see Section Two)...or that we find otherwise distasteful on a personal level.

We do not believe in the harm of animals, children, or others. Read The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth in Section Two for the exact rules on the subject.

Who are/What is the "Alien Elite?"
We believe that Satanists are born, not made. Those who are meant to be Satanists will be Satanists regardless of if they have a knowledge of who LaVey is or not. There are people out there who are not Satanists but we consider to operate on the same level as us as they have traits we favour, such as intelligence. We tend to see quite a few people as sheep as they believe whatever they are told and never question or work in their interest.

Here is a picture of a satanist at birth...
http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:RswPtx8PqiIJ:www.halloweencostume.com/1709
Some may develop horns slower than others.

I heard that Satanists value animals more highly than humans? is this true?
We believe that human beings are animals like any other being on this Earth. We are clever animals but we believe some people are better than non-human animals, and many are less than those who walk on all fours. We are all animals requiring food, sex, water, and an enironment for survivial.

Eg: I would save the life of a cat over that of a pedophile.

Do Satanists mistreat children?
No, we regard them as the world's natural magicians. They are the only innocence in an otherwise corrupt world and must be protected and treated exceptionally well.

Satanists dislike Pagans.
This depends on the Satanist; however, I will have to say this. If it doesn't effect us we don't really care. We may not believe what many pagans do but we respect that you have found your own path rather than accepting whatever religions have been forced upon you. A lot of Satanists love history so they tend to find common ground with reconstructionists and other historically themed pagan groupings.

Do Satanists practice magic?
In a way, yes. We have Lesser and Greater magic.

What is Lesser and Greater Magic?
I will use and exerpt from Anton himself to describe it.

"Ritual magic consists of the performance of a formal ceremony, taking place, at least in part, within the confines of an area set aside for such purposes and at a specific time... purely an emotional, rather than intellectual, act. Any and all intellectual activity must take place before the ceremony, not during it. This type of magic is sometimes known as "GREATER MAGIC". "
Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible, Book of Belial: 1

"Non-ritual or manipulative magic, sometimes called "LESSER MAGIC", consists of the wile and guile obtained through various devices and contrived situations, which when utilized, can create 'change, in accordance with one's will'. "
Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible, Book of Belial: 1

What do Satanists think of abortion? same sex marriages and other hot-topic issues?
Each Satanist is different, but the main belief is whatever people chose to do is their business if it does not effect us. We believe that living your life the best you can and living it for you, not to please others.

There is this guy next door who says he is a Satanist and walks around in dark clothing trying to capture cats for rituals, do you know him?
There are TONS of posers and cults that form from individuals who want to exploit the faith and/or have their own "image" to make their parents get concerned. Be wary of such people.

Sections Two: Statements, Rules, and Core Beliefs.

The Nine Satanic Statements

I Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
II Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
III Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
IV Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
V Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
VI Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!
VII Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development, has become the most vicious animal of all!
VIII Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
IX Satan is the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

From the Satanic Bible

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

I Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
II Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure that they want to hear them.
III When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
IV If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
V Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
VI Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the person and he cries out to be relieved.
VII Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
VIII Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
IX Do not harm little children.
X Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
XI When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Anton Szandor LaVey, 1967 c.e.


The Nine Satanic Sins

Stupidity -- The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

Pretentiousness -- Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn't applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone's made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

Solipsism -- Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won't. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of "Do unto others as they do unto you." It's work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

Self-deceit -- It's in the Nine Satanic Statements but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it's fun, and with awareness. But then, it's not self-deceit!

Herd Conformity -- That's obvious from a Satanic stance. It's all right to conform toa person's wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

Lack of Perspective -- Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints -- know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies -- Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something "new" and "different," when in reality it's something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the "creator" and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

Counterproductive Pride -- That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow," then do it.

Lack of Aesthetics -- This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but "an eye" for for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It's not what's supposed to be pleasing -- it's what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one's own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

Anton Szandor LaVey, 1987 c.e.

Section Three: Recommended Reading and Websites:

Websites:

The Church of Satan (http://www.churchofsatan.com), Satanism 101 (http://www.satanism101.com), Magic and Ritual in Satanism, (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html)

Recommended Reading:

Books Written by LaVey: The Satanic Bible, The Satanic Rituals, The Devil's Notebook, Satan Speaks!, The Satanic Witch

Other Books of Interest:
The Secret Life of a Satanist: The Authorized Biography of Anton LaVey.

The books listed can be searched on Chapters by clicking here. (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/default.asp?Ntt=anton+lavey&N=35&Nty=1&D=anton+lavey&Di=50&Ntk=SearchBooks&Section=books&Lang=en&mscssid=B4DD9EWTSC149GJ9B0US01EU4PV37PW8&WSID=040564E35C999D9E4190BCFA5E4B6F64B7A15105)

[IvyCeltress]

Thanks. This provides a wonderful overview of your path.

[DragonsChest]

Thank you! I enjoyed our PMs a few months back about what Satanism is and isn't. This thread seems to pull a lot of information into one convenient spot. I appreciate your effort.

[Tzhebee]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify what Satanists are/aren't in a very well thought out manner and in "laman" terms. I aprechiate the opportunity to become less ignorant and look forward to future information.

[Shanti]

The statements about humans is fact. We are animals, mammals and we are the most aggressive preditor on the planet. Thats is all fact. Glad to see you are helping people understand you view. Good job.

[Muireannach]

Thanks for the positive feedback :)

I jsut noted a demand for information among the board and all the threads popping up and thought I could clarify things a bit.

It's nice to hear it appreciated *hugs all*

[DragonsChest]

Just had a question pop in my head on the way back from lunch. I know that parents raise their children with their brand of religion. When two Satanist parents raise their child, I would assume they would do the same. But to protect their child from the stereotypes of the world, do they have that child hide the fact that their family are Satanists?

Consider: little Johnny goes to school and the kids are talking about Christmas, Yule, etc... and if little Johnny says, we don't celebrate those, we are Satanists, I would envision a pummeling being administered to little Johnny by the other kids for being an evil devil loving freak. Never mind that that is not what it is, to most of the world, that's what the term Satanist means. And I would then assume that their school career will be, to pardon the pun, Hell, from then on.

How would such an upbringing have to be altered for the child's protection?

[Avalon]

I just read through your FAQ, and I must say how incredibly interesting it was! Thanks for providing such a resource here at MW. :)

[Muireannach]

Just had a question pop in my head on the way back from lunch. I know that parents raise their children with their brand of religion. When two Satanist parents raise their child, I would assume they would do the same. But to protect their child from the stereotypes of the world, do they have that child hide the fact that their family are Satanists?

Consider: little Johnny goes to school and the kids are talking about Christmas, Yule, etc... and if little Johnny says, we don't celebrate those, we are Satanists, I would envision a pummeling being administered to little Johnny by the other kids for being an evil devil loving freak. Never mind that that is not what it is, to most of the world, that's what the term Satanist means. And I would then assume that their school career will be, to pardon the pun, Hell, from then on.

How would such an upbringing have to be altered for the child's protection?

Excellent point.

Recently there was a thread on the Satanism 101 website on the subject. The general consensus was that our children can be whatever religion they like. The reasoning is simple, the majority of us are people who grew up being forced to be Christian and don't with to do the same to our children. Here are a few posts of interest from various Satanists:

http://satanism101.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=227&highlight=

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd say you shouldn't raise your kids anything. One of the biggest msitakes a parent can make is enforcing a child to be the person you want them to be. I was forced to be Catholic, and I mean forced, and if anything it is the one rift between my parents and I.

However, the best way for children to learn is from the example of the parents. If you are a Satanist, you shall be their example. If your child is breaking a rule or committing a sin simply correct them, but don't bring out the Satanic bible and preach to them, or tell them what exatcly they violated.

Children are their own people, you give them their boundaries and allow them to be themselves and when they grow they will chose a faith, or none at all, for themselves. If they ask what you are, tell them and explain it to them, but do not make them believe that they are Satanist simply because they are of your flesh.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:14 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But also many people want to follow in the footsteps of their parents.
I dont know how many christians,muslims, hindos, became satanists.
But I think it is a small percentage%.
I really dont want my kid believing in god. I hope I wont have that problem.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just teach your child sense and reason and you wont have that problem. If your child is truely logical, they will find Satanism for themselves.


Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see a lot of people these days claiming it's inherently unSatanic to "raise your Children as Satanists." Well, I hate to burst some peoples' bubbles, but even Anton LaVey raised his children to be Satanists. This doesn't mean that you're perogative must now be to raise your kids up as Satanists too but I don't think it's an inherently bad thing to to do it.

As a parent, you'll know if it's right for your children. You'll know if they can handle it at their age and how they'll act about being raised with it. And we are Satanists after all so our manner of sharing and instilling in our youth our values is not going to be anything like theistic indoctrination.

I personally plan on raising my own "blood children" as Satanists, and as a "step-father" of a wonderful and brilliant 9 year old I am already part of a family that does this to some extent.

You just have to understand the difference between force feeding and teaching. My step-son is well aware that he is allowed to question, and to disagree, but so long as he does want mine and his mother's teaching then he shall receive it. He shall be "raised in Satanism" if that is what he wants and can handle.

You introduce it and let it smoothly go from there if you know you're child isn't going to go blabbing about it. And yes, you'll even have to figure out whether or not your child is actually a Satanist by nature. You can really tell if a kid is forcing himself to do something or not, more so than you can with adults because kids are more prone to fly free as they are than adults are.

But this is my opinion, not the Satanic doctrine that must be abided by or anything. All I'm saying is that raising your children in your religion is not contradictory to Satanism, and really, most of the Satanists with families I've talked to raise their children as Satanists.


Now, getting back to what to do if someone chooses to get their child into the Satanic religion. One thing is really to make sure the child is educated about satanism and is therefore able to prove false claims around them wrong. People tend to spew off what the media tells them and it is important to inform the child of that, and that we don't go around talking about religion in school. We do celebrate holidays, because they bring us pleasure! lol. We just minus out the religious stuff.

Here is a link regarding the media creating accusations against Satanists (Heraldo Rivera in particular) it is very interesting. http://www.religioustolerance.org/geraldo.htm

[Muireannach]

I just read through your FAQ, and I must say how incredibly interesting it was! Thanks for providing such a resource here at MW.

No problem! :)

[Ben Trismegistus]

Question - since Satanists are atheists, do you consider Satanism to be a religion or a philosophy?

[Shanti]

I would like to add, this was my childhood:
My father was a satanist, my mom a Jesus freak. My mom was the one who hurt people with her behavior and practised deceit. My dad was a good man. He was honest.

My mom people in general considered good. My dad was called evil. I was embarrassed of my moms selfish and cruel ways and my dad I respected for his honesty. As a child and an adult, no one would believe me that my dad was the good person that didnt hurt anyone and that my mom was horrible. My mom was like a cult leader out for personal gain. My dad minded his own business. It was a hard life.

I am of neither path. I found my own.

[Muireannach]

Question - since Satanists are atheists, do you consider Satanism to be a religion or a philosophy?

This has been an issue of debate; however, I tend to think of it more as a philosophy for those like myself who simply have an appetite to acquire knowledge and live it. This seems to be the general feeling of many Satanists. The argument can be made however that the Church of Satan is a "Church" and therefore is a religious body.

Here is a thread in one of the forums that debates the issue further :)

http://satanism101.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=329&highlight=religious

[Muireannach]

I would like to add, this was my childhood:
My father was a satanist, my mom a Jesus freak. My mom was the one who hurt people with her behavior and practised deceit. My dad was a good man. He was honest.

My mom people in general considered good. My dad was called evil. I was embarrassed of my moms selfish and cruel ways and my dad I respected for his honesty. As a child and an adult, no one would believe me that my dad was the good person that didnt hurt anyone and that my mom was horrible. My mom was like a cult leader out for personal gain. My dad minded his own business. It was a hard life.

I am of neither path. I found my own

Good for you, it just goes to show that children are their own people and not a copy of their parents. It also shows that the "goodness" of people should not be based on what you think their path is. :)

[Tzhebee]

How would such an upbringing have to be altered for the child's protection?

Just a thought, but if the following is true:
We believe that Satanists are born, not made. Those who are meant to be Satanists will be Satanists regardless of if they have a knowledge of who LaVey is or not.
Then it really doesn't matter how you raise your children or what "name" you give it, because they will get there anyway.

I was raised by a baptist grandmother, Catholic grandfather and christian mother. Yet, I have always had my Pagan beliefs, it was only a short while ago that I realized there was a "name" for what I have always known in my heart to be my truth.

Being a Pagan mom, I raise my kids to believe whatever they want. They sometimes attend various churchs, but when they ask me a pointed question, I give the generic "some people believe this, some believe this, I believe this, but you can decide what's right for you" because regardless of what I teach them in regard to faith, they will find their own way when they are ready.

[Muireannach]

Tzhebee....Correct.

This reminds me of a quote from the Dalai Lama on a recent visit. He said something to the effect of "For me, Buddhism is best, for a Christian, Christianity is best. The best religion is the one that is right for you."

[blueiris]

Thanks for posting all this information about Satanism, it cleared up a lot of queries I had. And I like the little baby -"Satanist at birth." :lol:

[Tharien]

Good work on the FAQ, but whats an atheists stance on life after death? i'm not to sure about this.

[Muireannach]

Good work on the FAQ, but whats an atheists stance on life after death? i'm not to sure about this.

We believe after death there is nothing, as we do not believe in a higher power or an exsistence beyond the one we are currently in.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=atheism

a·the·ism
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.
atheism

n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness] [ant: theism] 2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

[scaerie faerie]

"Mommy Why do the Satanists get Mad When I Flip Their Pentacle Right Side Up?"

:hehehehe:

Here is a picture of a satanist at birth...
http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:RswPtx8PqiIJ:www.halloweencostume.com/1709
Some may develop horns slower than others.

:nonono:

Good stuff. :) I do identify with a lot of it...thanks for an interesting read.

[Arcane]

Great point made for clarification and a little input on the Satanism being a religion or a philosophy...a religion is just anything that someone or something put a lot of belief into...So depending on how the individual wants to look at it, Satanism can be a philosophy or a religion.

[Dusk]

Thank you for a great post. AND, it is great to see others here that are like minded.

[Arcane]

It really is fantastic to see the effect that this will have on clarifications of the "religion/philosophy". I will definitely use this as a reference when the topic comes up.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Great point made for clarification and a little input on the Satanism being a religion or a philosophy...a religion is just anything that someone or something put a lot of belief into...So depending on how the individual wants to look at it, Satanism can be a philosophy or a religion.
Well, I don't know about that. Perhaps we should start a separate thread in T&P about the definition of religion, but my understanding is that a religion is the combination of spirituality and practice. Satanists have a practice, but not a spirituality (defined, in my opinion, as the belief in gods of some sort).

[Arcane]

That's why one it's in "" and a religion is defined as anything that someone believes in whole-heartedly.

[Muireannach]

Well, I don't know about that. Perhaps we should start a separate thread in T&P about the definition of religion, but my understanding is that a religion is the combination of spirituality and practice. Satanists have a practice, but not a spirituality (defined, in my opinion, as the belief in gods of some sort).

I have to agree. We aren't really a spiritual bunch and we don't beleive in any higher power. We simply exist by what we believe to be correct. Therefore it's a bit more of a philosophy.

[charmedkisses1]

Disclaimer: This is not meant to offend anyone, this is bc I don't understand.
Ok so if Hail Satan means Hail Me why not say Hail Me? And Secondly, isn't that incredibly selfish? I mean, everyone has an ego, but to put yourself above all others only leads to negative conflict (in many cases.) And thirdly no one can be raised above anyone else bc everyone is human and therefore not capable of reaching such a high state, w/o becoming a god like icon, but in your case Satan is your icon, so technically you're not atheists, whether you worship him, you, w/e you worship something, or maybe atheist to you means no high power, but you're makeing higher, aren't you? but satanists are atheist so you can't have a divine leader..... ugh I am sooo mentally retarded right now! :lol: Can someone help me? :rolleyes: Thanks for your help! Love you all! :huddle:
Disclaimer: This is not meant to offend anyone, this is bc I don't understand.

[DebLipp]

In regard to your "fun fact," the evidence is that LeVey made up this "fact." I'm a bit of a film trivia freak and I got into a long conversation with a number of people online, we discussed the evidence extensively. None of the film crew of Rosemary's Baby remembers seeing him there. The crew member who now owns the Satan costume says it is quite small, and that a man could be no larger than 5'6" or so if he was to fit into it. LeVey is about 6'.

There is no evidence at all that LeVey was in Rosemary's Baby beside the fact that he repeatedly said he was.

Sorry.

[Autumn]

Thank you for the well written FAQ!!

[Muireannach]

Ok so if Hail Satan means Hail Me why not say Hail Me? And Secondly, isn't that incredibly selfish? I mean, everyone has an ego, but to put yourself above all others only leads to negative conflict (in many cases.) And thirdly no one can be raised above anyone else bc everyone is human and therefore not capable of reaching such a high state, w/o becoming a god like icon, but in your case Satan is your icon, so technically you're not atheists, whether you worship him, you, w/e you worship something, or maybe atheist to you means no high power, but you're makeing higher, aren't you? but satanists are atheist so you can't have a divine leader..... ugh I am sooo mentally retarded right now! Can someone help me? Thanks for your help! Love you all!

I presume we don't say "Hail Me" because, to be blunt, it sounds a bit silly :) I have enver read the reasoning on that one so I can't give you an exact answer. It's not about ego, it's about loving yourself. Society today has a complex that if you love yourself and spend a few extra minutes on yourself you are "selfish" and that simply isn't true. I live my life going to work and so on like everyone else. The difference is that I don't associate with those who want to use me and have no respect for me as I love myself and don't need their negativity cluttering up my life. I help others out from time to time, but only those who are worthy. I spend some time doing things that please myself because life is short and I believe living uncontent is a waste of a life.There are satanist parents as well and many find that they are excellent parents becauise they make the time to take care of themselves as well as their child.

Satan is not our "icon" this mythical figure is merely an example to us as we do not believe in his exsistence. We worship ourselves and not Satan. We believe that we are all animals just some are a bit more clever than others. You have to amdit that if we plopped a group of people in the woods some would die of stupid acts while others would be clever enough to find a way to survive. Nature is cruel, some of us are smart, others are lacking. So we aren't putting ourselves higher but tend to claim membership into a small group of individuals who are intelligent enough to thrive and play the game of life so to speak (this group also includes intelligent non-satanists.)

In regard to your "fun fact," the evidence is that LeVey made up this "fact." I'm a bit of a film trivia freak and I got into a long conversation with a number of people online, we discussed the evidence extensively. None of the film crew of Rosemary's Baby remembers seeing him there. The crew member who now owns the Satan costume says it is quite small, and that a man could be no larger than 5'6" or so if he was to fit into it. LeVey is about 6'.

There is no evidence at all that LeVey was in Rosemary's Baby beside the fact that he repeatedly said he was.

Sorry.

http://www.deadrabbit.org/movievault/rosemary.htm

"Anton Szandor La Vey played the cameo roll of Satan."

http://home.att.net/~r.s.swartz/rose.html

"To keep the rituals and chants as realistic as possible, director Roman Polanski had Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan and composer of "The Satanic Bibles," serve as an assistant in the ritual scenes. In return for his help, LaVey was allowed to play Satan in the "impregnating sequence."

There is eveidence to both sides, whether he did or didn't we will never know unless you can get Roman Polanski on the phone.

[Rain Gnosis]

Just a note, this thread refers to LaVeyan Satanism. There are other Satanists who have different beliefs, such as Luciferians. Then, separately, there are devil-worshippers.

And yes, I can see why you'd think LaVeyan Satanism is selfish - it intends to be. That said, just because one loves themself doesn't mean they must not love others. LaVeyan Satanism also tells us that we should give love and kindness to those who we feel are deserving. Putting yourself above others need not lead to conflict - I'm reminded of Dr Phil actually, who tells us we must give ourselves our best first so we have the energy and ability to give of ourself to others.

Why just now I said "no I can't work tonight", knowing if I didn't get the rest and sleep I need today (and thus love my self first) I wouldn't be able to give 100% at work tonight or tomorrow. In that way, yes, I put myself first, but it didn't cause any conflict at all, and I didn't do it at the expense of anyone.

And no, I don't agree to put myself above someone else makes me a God - it makes me a person who's putting myself first. I don't think the levels are that cut and dry anyway. Do I think I'm above a certain person I know who refuses to work out of sheer laziness because I work my butt off? Yup. Does that make me a God? Hell no.

In LaVeyan Satanism, Satan is merely a symbol - not an icon, not a God, not something worshipped. The name merely represents some things that Satanists try to encourage in their own lives.

[Rain Gnosis]

Oh, and "hail Satan" is generally used because one is hailing the symbolism Satan represents - ie. the things that Satanism embodies such as "rational self-interest, avoidance of oppressive mentalities, the questioning of all, and a perseverance towards success and human potential" (from Satanism101.com). When you say "hail Satan" you are hailing your perfected self - what you aspire to, and thus your self when you embody all the things the symbol Satan refers to.

[sincerebliss]

Could all athiests be satanists???(hum..?)

[Rain Gnosis]

Uh, no. LaVeyan Satanism is atheist, but there's a whole lot more to it. Just like not all Pagans are Wiccan, despite that Wiccans are Pagan.

[Arcane]

I agree Rain.

[poetic]

I *think* I'm begining to understand. Thanks for giving us the 411.

[samiaminsane]

thank you eternally, Muireannach, for that post im only halfway thru reading it, but it is extremely informative. Although paganism is my chosen path, i researched various other religions first, but never satanism.... not that i believed satanists ran around sacrificing things and worshiping the christian idea of the 'devil', but i never really knew what it was about either. must go back and finish reading the post, just wanted to say thanks.

[Ron]

I never thought I could learn so much from one single thread. I guess I was treating Satanists as well... as Hitler treated Jews... :( gosh I feell arrogant.

[Muireannach]

No problem all :) I'm glad it's of interest.

I never thought I could learn so much from one single thread. I guess I was treating Satanists as well... as Hitler treated Jews... gosh I feell arrogant.

Believe me you aren't the only one my dear! lol. You are forgiven. :) we all have misconceptions on different subjects. No one can say they understand everything on this Earth fully.

[Arcane]

I think this post is quite informative and lets a lot of peole see the real side of Satanism...the side that most don't know about.

[MoonIsis]

Satan was made up by Christians and it's not related to wicca at all. They came up with satan and can keep him too.

[scaerie faerie]

Satan was made up by Christians and it's not related to wicca at all. They came up with satan and can keep him too.


a) Who said Satan has anything to do with Wicca?
b) Have you even read everything Muireannach has to say?

[MoonIsis]

No one said it has anything to do with Wicca. Just pointing that out since most people think Wicca relates to satan or that we sacrifice bunnies and eat children....LOL

[MoonIsis]

a) Who said Satan has anything to do with Wicca?

see above

b) Have you even read everything Muireannach has to say?

Sure...but of all the people I have met that claim to be Satanists none believe in anything that was posted. Most of the time they are claiming to be a Satanist to attract attention to themselves. If I met one that believed in what was posted perhaps I would have a different view, but in my opinion, I don't think these people who claim to be "satanists" know what they believe in and use satanism as an excuse to maybe be accepted by anyone. If high school isn't the perfect example of that I don't know what is.

[scaerie faerie]

Sure...but of all the people I have met that claim to be Satanists none believe in anything that was posted. Most of the time they are claiming to be a Satanist to attract attention to themselves. If I met one that believed in what was posted perhaps I would have a different view, but in my opinion, I don't think these people who claim to be "satanists" know what they believe in and use satanism as an excuse to maybe be accepted by anyone. If high school isn't the perfect example of that I don't know what is.

Yeah, high schools are often full of posers of all kinds, but for that very reason, it isn't a good idea to infer traits on groups in society as a whole from a bunch of hormonal teenage 'representatives'. For example, if there were a bunch of 'Wiccans' in high school who thought that being Wiccan meant they should dress in pointy hats, park broomsticks in the bike shed and carry their books of shadows around between classes, would that mean that Wiccans in the real, sane world were that way?

[MoonIsis]

nay, of course not....sorry, i'm just not a big fan of this entire theory behind it all. People can make up a religion any day of the week. it's just a means of controlling the masses.

[Muireannach]

Sure...but of all the people I have met that claim to be Satanists none believe in anything that was posted. Most of the time they are claiming to be a Satanist to attract attention to themselves. If I met one that believed in what was posted perhaps I would have a different view, but in my opinion, I don't think these people who claim to be "satanists" know what they believe in and use satanism as an excuse to maybe be accepted by anyone. If high school isn't the perfect example of that I don't know what is.

I am a Satanist and I don't do it for attention, you have not met adult satanists, jsut silly children mutilating the philosophy for themselves. I could easily say all the wiccans I've met are not serious and actually aren't, but then if I think things out a bit I realize that there are a lot who aren't really and o it for attention...but then there are serious wiccans.

High school is a $h!tty example pardon my french. Think of how different people are in high school. Everyone wants is essentially trying to find an identity for themselves so really to base your observations on everyone in highschool is inaccurate.

I know some satanists who range in age from 25-45. The majority of them have been officially "Satanists" for atleast an average of 10 years or more and have lived their lives in the way of Satanism since birth.

[Muireannach]

nay, of course not....sorry, i'm just not a big fan of this entire theory behind it all. People can make up a religion any day of the week. it's just a means of controlling the masses.

Guess what.... Wicca was made up too. Satanism is not here to "control the masses...." if we wanted to control the masses do you think we would have the rule "born not made?" that excludes a lot of people right there.

If you don't like someone's philosophy keep it too yourself.

[MoonIsis]

I think wicca is far older then satanism and has been used for centuries. As far as I know wicca is ancient. This region was created by someone with a philosy and he called it Satanism. Hey, sounds like he created it to me. He founded it and created it. Tell a true wiccan like Laurie Cabot that her religion was made up and I'm sure she'd get her broom and smack you out the door herself. If high school was a bad example, what's a better one? I've never met a satanist who wasn't acting like they are the most evil being on this planet majority of the time. Hey, if that's not how they are, then it isn't, but perhaps these rules and theories haven't been passed down too well from the birth god to their satanic born children. From what you posted it doesn't appear to be evil at all, yet the stearotype is to be affiliated with evil, and that's from many many sources. If you are a satanist, good for you. Whatever floats your boat. I don't care what religion you are because in the end we are all equal.

"I could easily say all the wiccans I've met are not serious and actually aren't, but then if I think things out a bit I realize that there are a lot who aren't really and o it for attention...but then there are serious wiccans."

That's exactly what I was saying. If you know serious ones, then you do. I haven't met one yet though. Guess I"m not so lucky as you.

And about religion, generally religion is a belief in a deity and practice of worship, action, and/or thought related to that deity. Loosely, any specific system of code of ethics, values, and belief. It is a system to teach value in human and non human life and to live a balanced lifestyle rather then rape, kill and torture. In a sense, it is a way of controlling the masses to be better people. I think it sure has helped me be a better person myself. I don't know where I would be without it, but I have an idea...probably very depressed, hopeless, lonely and unmotivated. Because of religion I am none of that. It helps me get through life and have hope as it does for many others.

edited for typo

[Muireannach]

I think wicca is far older then satanism and has been used for centuries. As far as I know wicca is ancient. This region was created by someone with a philosy and he called it Satanism. Hey, sounds like he created it to me. He founded it and created it. Tell a true wiccan like Laurie Cabot that her religion was made up and I'm sure she'd get her broom and smack you out the door herself. If high school was a bad example, what's a better one? I've never met a satanist who wasn't acting like they are the most evil being on this planet majority of the time. Hey, if that's not how they are, then it isn't, but perhaps these rules and theories haven't been passed down too well from the birth god to their satanic born children. From what you posted it doesn't appear to be evil at all, yet the stearotype is to be affiliated with evil, and that's from many many sources. If you are a satanist, good for you. Whatever floats your boat. I don't care what religion you are because in the end we are all equal.

Wicca is not ancient my dear. It is impossible to worship int he "ways of the ancients" when the ways of the ancients ahve been shrouded in secrecy due to time. Wicca is a reconstructive religion.

" There is general agreement that Wicca first became a mass movement in recent times in England during the 1950's with the publishing of books by Gerald Gardner. It has expanded at a furious rate in North America and Europe."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm

All I asked for was a little respect and a little less ignorance; however, if you want to paint us all with the same brush because you met a couple Satanists you didn't like go ahead and do so "ignorance is bliss" as they say. I know a lot of wiccans, some I like and some I don't. Their philosophy wouldn't suit my life, personality, or interests but it's their life and if they are happy then I don't care. That being said it's the pretentious "I know all the mysteries of the universe and am more spiritual than thou" sort that I loathe, but I know that not all wiccans are that way and so I treat wiccans with respect rather than casting them all in the same negative view I have for a few individuals who are not in my favour.

As for the history of Satanism if you look back at the FAQ you will see that it is similiar to Wicca because it is really a combination of old texts and new philosophies with a contemporary twist. So as different and "historically" superior you want to make wicca seem the fact of the matter is that it's creation is in fact quite similar to that of Satanism. Wicca is only partially "ancient." No religion of today can truely be ancient because so many customs, stories passed by word of mouth, and texts are now lost to time and only fragments remain.

[MoonIsis]

"Wicca is not ancient my dear. It is impossible to worship int he "ways of the ancients" when the ways of the ancients ahve been shrouded in secrecy due to time. Wicca is a reconstructive religion. "{

Depends on what kind you believe in. Celtic? Egyptian? There are many kinds. Impossible you say? What about American Indians? The Amish? They all seem to have a religion or way of life that has been passed down generation to generation. Neither have changed. What about religions that people practicie out in the Amazon or Africa? Nope, haven't changed either since the beginning of time. So you see, it depends on what type of religion you are talking about. Some forms of wicca have been used for a long time.

"All I asked for was a little respect and a little less ignorance; however, if you want to paint us all with the same brush because you met a couple Satanists you didn't like go ahead and do so "ignorance is bliss" as they say. "

LOL. I just asked a question and got no answer!

1. If high school was a bad example, what's a better one?
2. From what you posted it doesn't appear to be evil at all, yet the stearotype is to be affiliated with evil, and that's from many many sources. Why is that and how come this hasn't been clearend up much like the Witches League for Public Awareness has?

I'm not painting anyone here, I just find it hard to believe what I'm reading considering my situation. As someone else posted earlier, it's not personal, just confusing.

[scaerie faerie]

I think wicca is far older then satanism and has been used for centuries. As far as I know wicca is ancient.

As has already been said...you are thinking of Paganism. Wicca is just in its fifites.

This region was created by someone with a philosy and he called it Satanism. Hey, sounds like he created it to me. He founded it and created it.

That's what religion is; humanity has always spun philosophies about the nature of life, the universe and beyond. That's why there's no such thing as the one true faith.

Tell a true wiccan like Laurie Cabot that her religion was made up and I'm sure she'd get her broom and smack you out the door herself.

I have no doubt that she'd try it...but I won't get into my opinion of Cabot as that would be going way off-topic. By the way, who was put in charge of the 'true Wiccan' committee??

You are obviously young and learning, and that's fine - we all do, and everyone starts somewhere. But please don't try and cast aspersions on paths that you yourself admit you have not researched; all you're going on is observations and hearsay.

[MoonIsis]

well, perhaps it is paganism then. uh....now i'm really confused because in countless books and sites they branch the two together...oh nevermind...:p

I thought this was a discussion, not a test?

some interesting reading..

http://www.denofheathens.com/faq_00051.html
http://www.branwenscauldron.com/witch_wicca.html

Perhaps the two may be different in today's standards due to modernizing, but the general rules and philosiphies don't seem to have changed at all. (arg, did i spell that wrong again?)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Wicca is merely one facet of paganism. And has never been anything but. It was created in the 1940s by Gerald Gardner. If you think otherwise then you really need to pick up a book on the history of your religion. It is a mix of various traditions and occult societies such the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and some pre-Christian religions.

Celtic, Egyptian, Native American traditions are about as Wiccan as Christianity is. Which is to say they're not. As for you including the Amish, well I'm not sure why you would do that. They're Christians. And well the Amish practices have hardly been around for as long as some of the other's you named. Not to mention that no belief exists for generations without changes. Change is the nature of life. If there isn't change there is only stagnation and then death.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Perhaps the two may be different in today's standards due to modernizing, but the general rules and philosiphies don't seem to have changed at all. (arg, did i spell that wrong again?)

They have never been the same. And they never had philosophies that were the same. From it's inception Wicca has been duotheistic, most pre-Christian pagans were polytheistic. The concept of four elements while not exclusive to Wicca certainly isn't/wasn't a universal concept. The idea of casting a circle is an idea borrowed from occult socities, not pre-Christian religion. I could go on an on, but the point is, you are obviously quite misinformed as to what paganism is compared to Wicca.

[MoonIsis]

geez, people, i gave some examples of things that haven't changed because it was told that it was impossible to practice something from years ago, which it is not. People who live out in civilization that has never seen a telephone have not changed their religion or way of living for centuries. Check out the movie Sacred Planet to see it first hand. Hasn't changed because their environment hasn't changed. I gave the amish as an example to say they haven't changed their religion or way of living either, and many american indians have not as well. The indians religion is nature driven to an extent for they believe the earth speaks to them in the ways of the wind and in spirits.

Perhaps I have to rephrase this. :rolleyes: What I meant by ancient was that it is based on the original theories that were first developed years and years ago. In some cases, many years ago.

[MoonIsis]

They have never been the same. And they never had philosophies that were the same. From it's inception Wicca has been duotheistic, most pre-Christian pagans were polytheistic. The concept of four elements while not exclusive to Wicca certainly isn't/wasn't a universal concept. The idea of casting a circle is an idea borrowed from occult socities, not pre-Christian religion. I could go on an on, but the point is, you are obviously quite misinformed as to what paganism is compared to Wicca.

See link above....Pagans may follow more credos and worship more deities than one could ever think of, but they do have many things that are similar. I understand that pagans look at a bigger picture then wiccans, but that's not to say that both don't have very very similar theories. Some that say they are pagan and some that say they are wiccan may both agree on the same theory. Ok, some may argue the fact "they aren' t the same" but others will argue that they both follow similiar paths.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

geez, people, i gave some examples of things that haven't changed because it was told that it was impossible to practice something from years ago

Look, I am a Celtic Reconstructionist. You gave Celtic practices as an example. I can assure that it is impossible to practice Celtic religion as they practiced. Very little of the information is left to us, and much of what we do have to go by, such as the folklore, has been tainted by other sources such as Christianity and the Roman authors who recorded information about the Celtic peoples they interacted with. Even those Amazon tribes you referenced, while yes they may not have been touched by modern society, their beliefs will have changed over time. They may not be major changes, they may even be infintismal, barely noticeable to us, but they are there. That's just the nature of life, whether you want to admit it or not.

[scaerie faerie]

well, perhaps it is paganism then. uh....now i'm really confused because in countless books and sites they branch the two together...oh nevermind...:p


It is unfortunate that many sources will claim Paganism, Witchcraft and Wicca to be the same thing (they are three different things), and unfortunately many of the major published authors are some of the main offenders in this respect. But they are wrong - not all Witches are Wiccans, not all Pagans are Wiccans and there are such things as Satanic Witches.

Alas, 'tis one of the side-effects of shoddy research by money-minded writers...

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

"they mean it in the aspect which they can proudly state that they practice Magick, in the form of nature worship and/or ancestral heritage."

I do not practice magic. So I already have problems with the first article you posted. Obviously the authors definition of what makes pagan (neo-pagan) is very narrow and leaves out whole groups of neo-pagans who do not practice magic. I'm hardly the only one. Furthermore, all pre-Christian pagans did not practice magic either. Yes Wiccans are pagans, and yes paganism in itself is not a religion, she at least got that much right. But that hardly means they are the same thing. I'm a Celtic Reconstructionist, my beliefs are incredibly different from Wicca, but based on the argument posed in that article, 1) I'm not a pagan because I don't practice magic, and 2) I must be Wiccan because I consider myself a pagan. That's perposterous.

Nor as the second link you posted seems to imply are all pagans witches of any type, whether Wiccan or Trads. And I fail to see how it really applies to my post stating that all the practices of the various pagan, or neo-pagan as I prefer, traditions are not the same.

[MoonIsis]

Look, I am a Celtic Reconstructionist. You gave Celtic practices as an example. I can assure that it is impossible to practice Celtic religion as they practiced. Very little of the information is left to us, and much of what we do have to go by, such as the folklore, has been tainted by other sources such as Christianity and the Roman authors who recorded information about the Celtic peoples they interacted with. Even those Amazon tribes you referenced, while yes they may not have been touched by modern society, their beliefs will have changed over time. They may not be major changes, they may even be infintismal, barely noticeable to us, but they are there. That's just the nature of life, whether you want to admit it or not.

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/sacredplanet/main.html

go see this movie. They haven't changed. :D

They still live the same traditional life that their ancestors had. Amazing? Very much so.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Have you read any history books lately? Everything changes. Period. It's life. We as outsiders may not see the changes, but they are there. I'd stake my life on the fact that if you brought someone to the future from centuries ago and showed them the religious practices of their progeny, while they would recognize the practices, they would also recognize the changes.

[MoonIsis]

Have you seen any good movies lately? Go see that one!

In modern socieity everything changes....but in non modern society, it may not.

"Their words do not deliver a heavy handed message about all that needs to change in modern day society. Rather, they speak from the heart, offer their perspective, and share a more traditional way of life with the audience."

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

No. I haven't. Because I find movies are very bad source of information, especially when they come from disney. But thanks for the suggestion.

I'm obviously wasting my time so I'm going to end this debate.

[MoonIsis]

Hey, yeah, thanks for going to the site and checking it out. You would know it's not what you think. It's a beautiful way of showing the last sacred places on this earth and the people who find them to be sacred for a reason. That reason is because their entire way of being is based on the nature of these places. Your Welcome.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I did go check it out, since you're so sure you know what I do on my computer. I stand by my comment that I don't trust movies for valid information.

[MoonIsis]

I saw it. It's pretty valid. The earth's landscape doesn't lie and I highly doubt the people who live out in that jungle are making their beliefs up since they don't really know no other. Looks great on that huge IMAX screen too! Most of their teachings get passed on from generation to generation. It was interesting to see how they lived and how their lives were shaped on a mostly nature based religion as well. God and goddess may come and go, but the general concept behind their beliefs has not.

[Muireannach]

1. If high school was a bad example, what's a better one?
2. From what you posted it doesn't appear to be evil at all, yet the stearotype is to be affiliated with evil, and that's from many many sources. Why is that and how come this hasn't been clearend up much like the Witches League for Public Awareness has?


I am now going to throw all politeness out the window here as I recieved none from the get-go. It is obvious I am not debating with an intellectual but rather a fluff bunny adolescent who sits in art class painting pentacles and making up the Wiccan religion as she goes.

What is a better example than high school? LIFE. High school is a place full of hormonal people who ahve yet to find themselves, you ahve to admit that is a pathetic off the cuff example.

Why don't we "clear up" our image? because really we don't care what others think. We call ignorant and individuals of low intelligence members of the herd. I am afraid to say that you are in fact beginning to grow wool. Some negative stereotypes are impossible to remove so it is best to ignore them.

One thing I recommend to you (as the lovely Morag has stated) is to learn what Wicca is before you call yourself a witch. Reading a couple websites and lighting candles doesn't make you a "witch."

I am ending my conversation with you now as you so narrow minded that new ideas cannot fit in.

Now, back to the original topic of this thread.
I do not want this thread to get closed over something like this.

[MoonIsis]

I never called myself a witch and I never read a few web sites and lit a few candles as you state. You yourself just made your own stereotype. I just discussed the matter you created in a way you obviously did not agree with. So because you don't agree with my statement, that comes off as being ignorant to you and others. So sorry if I didn't see your point of view as you may have imagined I would.

The example of high school does not automatically mean I am in high school so please, before you go labeling someone you better know who you are talking to first. Many teens in high school are trying to find out who they are, yes that is a fact. But if some choose Satanism as their path, what I was stating was clearly they are being misinformed, as you so nicely cleared up, as to what that path is truly about. I have never once read this opinion on this topic until now, and I'm just letting you know the majority of people don't see this point of view at all. With all the music artists out there such as Deicide, Morbid Angel and the like painting Satanism with lyrics that talk about Satan, the Devil and Lucifer, it's no wonder you would expect someone to point out that many people think that is what Satanism actually is! (that being an painting an evil image) Many probably don't even know that you don't even believe in what most people think Satan is. That's a bad misconception.

I don't see how this thread would get closed if you keep in mind it is a discussion about paths. I have never heard of this type of path so for me, questions will be common. If you cannot deal with the questions, I don't see why you posted this thread in the first place.

"Why don't we "clear up" our image? Because really we don't care what others think." Well, then, why do you care what I think? You religion is quite different to say the least. Sheep? Everyone grows wool one way or another, whether it's getting the latest SUV, getting the latest fashions, or running out and getting a lottery ticket because everyone else is. So yeah, Bah Bah Bah!

I can't see how someone would not want to clear up their image a little bit so others can understand where you are coming from. I would hate to go up to someone and say "hey, i'm a satanist!" because the general reaction is negative. Perhaps you should consider this in the long run of "change" to incorporate a new organization that has the main purpose of recruiting others to the philosophy of Satanism by banishing the negative stereotypes. That sure would shine a little light on the subject. Ohters may not come forward as easily as you did about this subject. This post alone isn't enough to enlighten people on this topic. If a website organization doesn't already exist, one should be in the making. Coming off as being negative towards someone who asks a question doesn’t help either.

If wicca is a modern reconstruction of what was Pagan beliefs, it is still based on what was…but has been modernized. “ Although the religion is a modern creation, some of its sources pre-date the Christian era by many centuries”. So, there you have it. Some of its sources are pretty darn old. That’s all I was saying and it got torn apart to be translated into something else. Some of the theories behind today’s modern Wicca may actually be the same theories that those of the past believed and practiced. This is the same for those people who lives in Amazon tribes, African tribes, or the like. The “meat and potatoes” of the religion is still alive and kicking. End of story.

If your path truly is harmless and good, how are you supposed to reiterate this to people if you come across as being negative because “we don’t care what anyone else thinks”? New comers to your “church” might have questions. If someone feels they are a Satanist and aren’t sure, they just want some support.

Perhaps you don’t see what I’m saying because…well..you’re a Satanist.

I do have one more question though:

Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!

Psychic Vampires? Who are psychic Vampires?

edited..forgot something!

[DragonsChest]

I don't see how this thread would get closed if you keep in mind it is a discussion about paths. I have never heard of this type of path so for me, questions will be common. If you cannot deal with the questions, I don't see why you posted this thread in the first place.

This thread was opened to discuss Satanism and its tenents and beliefs, not to debate whether Wicca is Pagan, or Witches are Wicca, or whatever it is your posts have devolved this thread into. It is not a thread to discuss all the different paths, just to inform folks about Satanism.

Can we please get back to the point of this thread ~~ I was enjoying it as it was. I don't want to follow that path, but I want to learn about it.

Thanks to all.

[MoonIsis]

This thread was opened to discuss Satanism and its tenents and beliefs, not to debate whether Wicca is Pagan, or Witches are Wicca, or whatever it is your posts have devolved this thread into. It is not a thread to discuss all the different paths, just to inform folks about Satanism.

Can we please get back to the point of this thread ~~ I was enjoying it as it was. I don't want to follow that path, but I want to learn about it.

Thanks to all.

Hey, I just responded to a statement and mentioned Wicca as being ancient and it snowballed. I can't control how other people respond to my opinions.

:whatgives

[pawnman]

Wicca is merely one facet of paganism. And has never been anything but. It was created in the 1940s by Gerald Gardner. If you think otherwise then you really need to pick up a book on the history of your religion. It is a mix of various traditions and occult societies such the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and some pre-Christian religions.

Just a clarification: Gardner didn't create it. Gardner broke his vow os secrecy because he feared the religion would die. So how old was Gardner's form of Wicca before he broke his vow and went public? Who knows. However, many aspects of the craft are indeed much older than basically any other religion.

[wandering_monk]

Hey, I just responded to a statement and mentioned Wicca as being ancient and it snowballed. I can't control how other people respond to my opinions.

:whatgives

Just a point here before I go on to thank Muireannach for a great heads up and some terrific information. When you state an opinion as fact (Wicca as being ancient) people are going to react accordingly. In this case, they tell you how wrong you were in that case. Wicca is not ancient, that is not opinion, belief or prophecy. It is fact. It is about 60 years old, SLIGHTLY older than my parents and they are not ancient....yet. Next time you are going to put forth something as opinion please make it slightly believable and how about RELEAVANT to the conversation at hand.

Muireannach, I do have some questions for you, but after being pulled so freaking off topic for NO GOOD reason I am going to re-read your FAQ and ask them tomorrow I hope. Lastly I want to thank you for posting your information, it is for posts like that the site is so enjoyable.

~WM

P.S. to Muireannach: Growing wool? :rollingla I have actually bah-bahed at people before, but the growing wool is new to me. I am rather fond of it, really fond. I am still laughing. Hell you made my night with one sentence. Thanks again. :fpraise:

[pawnman]

I could never really get comfortable with the idea of Satanists...the idea that you are the single most important thing in the universe, and everything else is just there to suit your own needs. But if it works for you, go right ahead.

[pawnman]

And Satan really is a creation of the Catholic church, quite literally. Satan is a bastardization of the word Shaitan, which means enemy in Arabic. The Catholics branded people they disagreed with (such as the Illuminati and their illustrious founder, Gallileo) as Shaitan. Why Arabic? Because the Catholics considered it to be the dirtiest language there was at the time. Eventually, Satan and Lucifer (the Angel of Light who led the rebellion against God in the Catholic mythos) became linked, and now the terms are synomous in the minds of most people.

[MoonIsis]

Just a point here before I go on to thank Muireannach for a great heads up and some terrific information. When you state an opinion as fact (Wicca as being ancient) people are going to react accordingly. In this case, they tell you how wrong you were in that case. Wicca is not ancient, that is not opinion, belief or prophecy. It is fact. It is about 60 years old, SLIGHTLY older than my parents and they are not ancient....yet. Next time you are going to put forth something as opinion please make it slightly believable and how about RELEAVANT to the conversation at hand.

Muireannach, I do have some questions for you, but after being pulled so freaking off topic for NO GOOD reason I am going to re-read your FAQ and ask them tomorrow I hope. Lastly I want to thank you for posting your information, it is for posts like that the site is so enjoyable.

~WM

P.S. to Muireannach: Growing wool? :rollingla I have actually bah-bahed at people before, but the growing wool is new to me. I am rather fond of it, really fond. I am still laughing. Hell you made my night with one sentence. Thanks again. :fpraise:

Uh, one of the web sites posted earlier by the originator of this thread had this to say:

"Although the religion is a modern creation, some of its sources pre-date the Christian era by many centuries." :huh:

Would you not consider that "ancient"? Ancient in the dictionary is defined as something very old. :uhhhhh: Just curious since I still don't see how it's not somewhat ancient since almost every web site I went to describes it as having sources that date back to pre-christianity. I'm not talking about the new stuff for crying out loud, i'm talking about the old stuff.

Interesting point of view Pawnman....never knew that...

"Next time you are going to put forth something as opinion please make it slightly believable and how about RELEAVANT to the conversation at hand"

I just stated that Satanism sounded like a some type of cult that was created..a way to live so to speak with no roots..I never heard of any satanic roots before....and that I didn't see it as being something that has ancient roots and traditions such as Wicca. Wicca was based on the roots of older religions...you may have gotten that confused with what I was trying to say. Sure, it's new so to speak, but still has it's roots. Was just explaining what I thought about it in relation to Satanism and it turned into another discussion. This is mystic wicks...it happens...on many threads...all...the...time...

[DebLipp]

Just a clarification: Gardner didn't create it. Gardner broke his vow os secrecy because he feared the religion would die. So how old was Gardner's form of Wicca before he broke his vow and went public? Who knows. However, many aspects of the craft are indeed much older than basically any other religion.

Gardner did not break his vows. Indeed, the person you were responding to had it accurately, as Gardner himself said during his lifetime. Fearing the religion would die, but bound by his oaths, Gardner used research into Western occultism and ancient and surviving Pagan cults to reconstruct what he believed the religion once was. Historians look at Gardner's sources and antecedents and conclude that there's nothing in his material that presupposes the existence of an ancient underground cult. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, merely that Gardner honored his oath by leaving no trace.

Of course, the fact that he left no trace means we don't know it DID exist either. Certain areas of history remain an open question.

There is no question that Wicca as introduced to the world by Gardner is modern. There is no question that it is built on ancient and more recent sources. The only question is the exact relationship between the older sources and the modern religion.

[wandering_monk]

Uh, one of the web sites posted earlier by the originator of this thread had this to say:

"Although the religion is a modern creation, some of its sources pre-date the Christian era by many centuries." :huh:

Would you not consider that "ancient"? Ancient in the dictionary is defined as something very old.

Ummm, point there. "Some of its sources" are ancient. "The religion is a modern creation"... that pretty much sums it up. Basically the "religion" was created in "modern" day based on ancient sources.... hence the religion is modern and not ancient.

The same logic applies to transportaion.... transportation is thousands of years old but the Ferarri F40 is a modern creation that was based on the basic principals of transportaion. (To get from point A to point B) This does not make the Ferarri ancient, just its originating source (the desire to go from point A to point B again.) In the case of the Ferrarri that would mean real fast with your hair on fire, but that is another situation.

Your quote explains the whole situation if you read it through and pay attention. Hell I could not have found a better quote to prove my point, thanks.

[Muireannach]

Here is my final replies to you. After this I will no longer be speaking to you as it has become a lost cause. The uselss bits have been edited out as I have better things to do then go over numerous errors with a fine tooth comb.

I never called myself a witch and I never read a few web sites and lit a few candles as you state. You yourself just made your own stereotype. I just discussed the matter you created in a way you obviously did not agree with. So because you don't agree with my statement, that comes off as being ignorant to you and others. So sorry if I didn't see your point of view as you may have imagined I would.

I did not use a stereotype per say, rather I gathered evidence and made a comment based on facts. Considering you speka in a manner of utter defence of Wicca and talk as if you are an expert, regardless of the fact you lack the knowledge, I was able to assume you were new to the path and were perhaps very young or not very well-read. I disagreed with your "facts" as they were incorrect. I offered you a response to your rather rude comments and you continued to be impolite.

I am not forcing my point of view on you, I am merely correcting your misconceptions and
you are too narrow minded to even consider what others have to say.

....insert useless subject re-hashing here.....

I don't see how this thread would get closed if you keep in mind it is a discussion about paths. I have never heard of this type of path so for me, questions will be common. If you cannot deal with the questions, I don't see why you posted this thread in the first place.

This forum states:
"Discuss your Path. Find threads specifically about Wicca, Hinduism, Satanism, or whatever it may be. Debating and discussion is allowed, but be respectful."

You were disrespectful, impolite, and have gone completely off topic. So I think that is all a violation in it's self.

If you look through the thread I ahve answered your questions and others so don't pull the whole "if you can't handle questions" cliche. That is an utter lie an it is foolish to lie when there is text acessible to all parties that will make you appear a fool in your comment.

"Why don't we "clear up" our image? Because really we don't care what others think." Well, then, why do you care what I think? You religion is quite different to say the least. Sheep? Everyone grows wool one way or another, whether it's getting the latest SUV, getting the latest fashions, or running out and getting a lottery ticket because everyone else is. So yeah, Bah Bah Bah!

I don't care what you think. Within the Satanic philosophy you have proven yourself a lesser animal in need of training. Sadly for you I will discontinue my attempts in enlightening you on a few points as you are a lost cause. You are a sheep because you are actually believing what the media tells you and act as a lesser animal.

I can't see how someone would not want to clear up their image a little bit so others can understand where you are coming from. I would hate to go up to someone and say............(Insert usless re-hashing here).............................. isn't enough to enlighten people on this topic. If a website organization doesn't already exist, one should be in the making. Coming off as being negative towards someone who asks a question doesn’t help either.

I was negative to you as you were rude, how many times must I remind you? The other posters asked polite questions and you did not. I answered your question then you became increasingly impolite.

I don't live my life for others, so why bother wasting my time with an "organisation to make us appear better?" I simply like to inform at appropriate venues (when individuals ask and on sites such as this where numerous questions arrive) I don't like waisting my time preaching to the ignorant, hence why this is the last time I am communicating with you.

If your path truly is harmless and good, how are you supposed to reiterate this to people if you come across as being negative because “we don’t care what anyone else thinks”? New comers to your “church” might have questions. If someone feels they are a Satanist and aren’t sure, they just want some support.

We don't care what others think because we live for ourselves. Perhaps you should try reading the FAQ?

Perhaps you don’t see what I’m saying because…well..you’re a Satanist.

Wow, what an intelligent comment! You must be a writer I'm sure...! :lol

Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires!

Psychic Vampires? Who are psychic Vampires?

Psychic vampire are people who drain your energy and are out to simply use everyone for their own emotional need. They can also have a scientific ability to drain energy of others.

[Muireannach]

Back to the original thread. Any polite comments or questions regarding Satanism will be willingly asnwered. :)

[fay]

heya muireannach! thanks so much for the really informative faq! i have learnt so much! i am sorry to say that i used to have negative misconceptions about satanism but then when i became wiccan i learnt that they were wrong but i didnt really know what it was about. thank you for taking the time to explain your beliefs. its what were all here for, to learn.
also if anyone has any information on other forms of satanism or devil worshipping or anything, i would be really interested. im not grouping the lot together,j just hoping to learn the differences.
thank you to everyone who has posted, youve all enlightened me in one way or another.
blessed be
ps just a note to say that someone said to me (not on mw) that they dont think satanism is right cos thats not what they believe! and i just told them that it doesnt matter if its not what they believe, its not their religion. just thought id share that with you so we can laugh at some peoples silly comments :P

[mol]

ADMIN MODE

This thread is meant for informative discussion about Satanism. Not about debating its validity. This forum is not for debating religious beliefs. We have the theology forum for that.

MoonIsis, please refrain from posting in these threads if you cant do it without throwing negative comments about Satanism or other religions. Let's move on.

Muireannach and DragonsChest, please do not encourage this type of thing by responding to it. Just report any posts that you feel are violating the rules. Let's move on.

Everyone else, let's move on and bring the thread back to information on Satanism and Satanism only.

[DragonsChest]

DragonsChest, please do not encourage this type of thing by responding to it. Just report any posts that you feel are violating the rules. Let's move on.


yes, sir

[Gracecat]

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/sacredplanet/main.html

go see this movie. They haven't changed. :D

They still live the same traditional life that their ancestors had. Amazing? Very much so.

The Yanamano of South America... One of the last traditionally ancient tribes in existance.

But what I think the poster meant by the fact they have changed a bit is that even with the presence of an anthropologist studying the tribe, it changes. No matter how adaptive the researcher tries to be, he influences. The single act of a plane flying overhead and being seen by a tribal leader changes their belief system if in the smallest amounts. You're right though, they are still one of the most traditional on the planet. Most tribes have been influenced but a few are still in the deepest parts of the jungle and haven't been "seen" by civilized man. There's a word that refers to the outside influence, and as an anthropology major I really should remember it but bah. I don't. (Not flaming Mol, just talking shop. I loooove anthropology ;)

To Muire :)
Getting back on topic and the main reason I'm posting to this thread is that I am glad to have this FAQ. It explains alot, it helps with the misconceptions. Personally, I will admit I still don't agree with *some* things in the name of Satanism but it's the stereotypical angst ridden teenage brats that cause this. And I realize they're not Levayan Satanists, from definition if I've come to understand it right, the ones that make me tweak are "devil-worshippers". But then again, there have been so-called Christian serial killers too. So truth be told, it's the person and not the religion. Every belief system has it's nuts, pagans not excluded. :kooky:

[Rain Gnosis]

Satanists do not seek to recruit other Satanists - in other words, if Satanism doesn't seem welcoming to you, good, it's not meant for you. It's not something you just start believing one day, but for most Satanists consists of beliefs and principles one already believed but just didn't have a name for. One reason Satanists use that name as opposed to another is specifically for the shock value - many Satanists believe if you see the term and immediately think "evil anti-Christian" you have willingly been spoon-fed misinformation and aren't a Satanist to begin with. If you, instead, stop to do some research and learn about the philosophy, you might actually already have beliefs that are in line with Satanism. Furthermore, the cardinal rule of Satanism is stupidity, and many Satanists believe if you just regurgitate what you've heard about the evils of Satanism rather then doing research and educating yourself, you're engaging in stupidity right now. So even if you did agree with it, they don't want you!

From The Enema Image (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/enema.html) by Vexen Crabtree.

Sheep are frequently considered a bit mindless, uncurious and unintelligent because they follow the herd, without thinking and take for granted that that's the way it should be. No questions. No answers.

When you have a symbol that cannot be interpreted in terms of popular belief or by it's cover or appearance, then you immediately filter out the masses who are unwilling to question their own assumptions. Assumptions are the mother of mediocrity and **** ups. By a strange coincidence, Satan represents a train of thought is not mainstream and is not limited by a person's culture or upbringing: Satanism is Left Hand Path: The individual thinks for himself and all the assumptions of society are questioned.

Imagery that cannot be judged correctly without abandoning thoughtless stereotypes and assumptions are an advantage to someone who wishes to quickly identify people who are unwilling, in their current state in life, to step out of the grid-iron thinking of their culture and embrace Old Nick and his search of knowledge.

One of the main functions of Satanism is to make people re-think what they've been told, examine beliefs, and think outside the box. Sometimes shock value is the best way to make people do that.

It's not for everyone.

[moonmorgan]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype]

Are Satanists selfish and cruel?
There are people out there who call themselves "Satanists" who actually are not part of the Alien Elite (see below) who may be that way. That being said I will delve into the "ego" of the Satanist.
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

IV If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.


Okay, this is the part of Satanism I don't understand. Satanists are supposedly not cruel and evil like some think yet the fourth Satanic Rules of the Earth says to treat others cruelly and without mercy.

:huh:

[Tzhebee]

I'll take a shot at that one...even though I am not a Satanist..
I think the general meaning behind #4, is that you are not supposed to "baby" people. When someone does something stupid, or cruel, you don't turn the other cheek, you treat them exactly as they deserve to be treated.

So, it's not saying that you should be a bitch 24/7, but when the time is appropriate, do not hold back.

At least, that's how I view it....and I think it's a damn good idea.

[PeleRising]

Thanks Muireannach for your FAQ... through that as well as resulting posts, I have learned much.

[Rain Gnosis]

What is cruel is open to interpretation. Someone might consider it cruel for me to tell them to get out of my house. It just means don't let someone come into your own house and get away with treating you or yours incorrectly. It doesn't mean you should start killing people off.

[Rain Gnosis]

Incidentally a more advanced but far more in depth look at Satanism is available at Vexen's site, http://www.dpjs.co.uk/

[Muireannach]

heya muireannach! thanks so much for the really informative faq! i have learnt so much! i am sorry to say that i used to have negative misconceptions about satanism but then when i became wiccan i learnt that they were wrong but i didnt really know what it was about. thank you for taking the time to explain your beliefs. its what were all here for, to learn.
also if anyone has any information on other forms of satanism or devil worshipping or anything, i would be really interested. im not grouping the lot together,j just hoping to learn the differences.
thank you to everyone who has posted, youve all enlightened me in one way or another.
blessed be
ps just a note to say that someone said to me (not on mw) that they dont think satanism is right cos thats not what they believe! and i just told them that it doesnt matter if its not what they believe, its not their religion. just thought id share that with you so we can laugh at some peoples silly comments :P

Thankyou for your kind post. Excellent example of tolerance "if it isn't your cup of tea don't spill it!" :). I am pondering posting some information on what exactly devil worship is and it's status in the mdoern world if I ahve time. We shall see.

Muireannach and DragonsChest, please do not encourage this type of thing by responding to it. Just report any posts that you feel are violating the rules. Let's move on

You got it! :)

Satanists do not seek to recruit other Satanists - in other words, if Satanism doesn't seem welcoming to you, good, it's not meant for you. It's not something you just start believing one day, but for most Satanists consists of beliefs and principles one already believed but just didn't have a name for. One reason Satanists use that name as opposed to another is specifically for the shock value - many Satanists believe if you see the term and immediately think "evil anti-Christian" you have willingly been spoon-fed misinformation and aren't a Satanist to begin with. If you, instead, stop to do some research and learn about the philosophy, you might actually already have beliefs that are in line with Satanism. Furthermore, the cardinal rule of Satanism is stupidity, and many Satanists believe if you just regurgitate what you've heard about the evils of Satanism rather then doing research and educating yourself, you're engaging in stupidity right now. So even if you did agree with it, they don't want you!

Very nicely summed up!

Precisely, a lot of people are Satanists and don't realise it as they don't know what a Satanist is, only a media stereotype. We do bnot recruit as we are born, not made, and we have no "Agenda" as Christians like to say we do. The philosopher Neitzsche is one who had a large influence on Satanism and I recommend that many read some of his works along with the Satanic Bible to get bit or perspective.

It is correct to say we loathe stupidity. We reject individuals who are a nuisance as we are not a group who give love to ingrates.

Okay, this is the part of Satanism I don't understand. Satanists are supposedly not cruel and evil like some think yet the fourth Satanic Rules of the Earth says to treat others cruelly and without mercy.

If someone was to disrespect the God you believe in, would you keep them around for very long? I presume probably not. We are Gods to ourselves, and when someone comes over to my residence I expect them to be polite and resturn the courtesy I have given them. This goes in line with the comments made earleir in regard to stupidity and the herd. We believe some people ahve more value than others, and as such, we try to weed out the less valuable in the most efficient manner as is possible.

If we were to take a Christian approach and ignore it, or correct them politely we would be sitting there sharing coffee with someone we don't like and not giving them a very severe warning of the errors of their ways. Why waste our time? if someone cannot conduct themselves in a polite manner then they obviously need to go.

If someone comes over to my home, mocks my decorating, and criticizes my cooking, how are they enriching my life? have they proven themselves worthy of recieving my attention? in my book, they haven't. So as a result I will quickly state the error of their ways and make them leave. They have earned harsh treatment through their actions.

In regards to the cruel nature of it we basically believe that nature can be cruel (in a social and Darwinist sense).

I'll take a shot at that one...even though I am not a Satanist..
I think the general meaning behind #4, is that you are not supposed to "baby" people. When someone does something stupid, or cruel, you don't turn the other cheek, you treat them exactly as they deserve to be treated.

So, it's not saying that you should be a bitch 24/7, but when the time is appropriate, do not hold back.

At least, that's how I view it....and I think it's a damn good idea.

Exactly right. You hit the nail on the head :)

Thanks Muireannach for your FAQ... through that as well as resulting posts, I have learned much.

No problem, good to hear it :)

[rambone]

Rambone feels that there must be many satanists in the world. I have many quesitons. Many drugs addicts might be satanists for they indulge in drugs a little too much. "Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek"...violence just starts move violence. Are terrorists satanists too?. Sheep following: aren't you following LaVey? You are following the founder, who's daughter is now in a legal battle over the church...Why would she be concerned about the ownership of the Satanists? "We find that our actions and views on the world are in line with the mythical figure of Satan." Who is we? I thought Satanists were individuals? "If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy." So if someone who crosses your path doens't agree with you or annoys you, you treat them unfairly and with no consideration? Rambone is confused here...How would you deal with a customer service job? "Now, getting back to what to do if someone chooses to get their child into the Satanic religion." First you say they are born into satanism, then you say "to get them into satanism"....they are either born into it or brainwashed into being in it. which one is it? I don't understand. One more question...from reading this post it appears that you should not tell others of your religion. If this is true, how would you tell you are talking to a Satanist? Do you have some type of sign? Lastly, Don't hail satan, ALL HAIL RAMBONE!

[Muireannach]

Before I begin may I remind you of how to use a paragraph. A paragraph is grouping sentences that share a common subject. A paragraph is on average about five sentences long but can be more as long as the information is based on the same subject. The purpose of paragraphs is to make things easy to read and organized for the reader so that they don't get frustrated in a sea of text. I hope you will utilize this grammatical tool in future posts.

Now that I have cleared that up for you I will begin to answer your questions.

"Many drugs addicts might be satanists for they indulge in drugs a little too much."

If I was to utilize your method of thought I could say that Catholics are witches as they light candals, chant, and have altars. Do you see where I am coming from? there are so many aspects to Satanism that if you claim someone is a Satanist for over-indulging in a chemical dependancy you are basically grasping at straws. Satanism is actually against hardcore drug use as we see it as a method of self destruction and stupidity.
"...violence just starts move violence. Are terrorists satanists too?"

Vengence does not just mean violence, it can mean revenge by any means. Violence does not always start more violence. We only use it when necessary which is rare (if you thoroughly read the FAQ you would understand this.)


"Sheep following: aren't you following LaVey?"

I don't follow LaVey, and I don't follow anything. I was born with a personality and brain that created my own ideals. Upon my growth into adulthood I read the Satanic Bible and realized how my ideas were actually similar to many philosophies that have infact created Satanism. I don't follow LaVey, he is dead so how can I, and I do not idolize him either. I do however respect him as an equal to me as he was infact a member of the alien elite who took the beliefs and ideals of a particular group and organized them.

"Why would she be concerned about the ownership of the Satanists? "


Not the ownership of Satanists....give me a break. The Church of Satan is an organisation, you don't ahve to be a member to be a Satanist. She felt that the organization was her birthright and therefore she wanted to run it her way, her ex-step mother has other ideas. Simple as that.

"So if someone who crosses your path doens't agree with you or annoys you, you treat them unfairly and with no consideration? "

Crosses my path? read what you quoted....
"If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy"

I will answer the rest of your questions once you read the FAQ, arrange your thoughts, and post them in a polite and grammatically correct fashion.

[Nighthawk]

Oddly enough, as much as a person might try to disagree and all, I find many times when Satanism could easily be my path... Considering the way you react to wrongs and all. I must say, after reading Satan's bible, I can really understand so much of the thought there. Sorry, my two cents worth... and this is a fascinating and informative thread, please keep going.

[Rain Gnosis]

"Now, getting back to what to do if someone chooses to get their child into the Satanic religion." First you say they are born into satanism, then you say "to get them into satanism"....they are either born into it or brainwashed into being in it. which one is it? I don't understand.

Maybe I'm missing the context of this, but why are your options "born into it" and "brainwashed into it". Were you born or brainwashed into your beliefs? Chances are most people here at MW found a belief system that fell in line with many of the beliefs they already held - maybe the Wiccan who now practices Sabbats and Esbats with a coven always adored being in nature, marked the moon cycle since she was a child, and always believed in not harming others even if she'd never heard it put the way the rede does. The same goes for Satanism - most people who find LaVeyan Satanism realize it envelopes many of the beliefs they've always held. This is "born into it" - it's seeing a system of beliefs, many of which you've always held but didn't put a name to. Since brainwashing is if anything the absolute opposite of something any Satanist wants to have happen to people, that's really not an option at all.

One more question...from reading this post it appears that you should not tell others of your religion. If this is true, how would you tell you are talking to a Satanist?

Well, assuming someone wanted others to know their beliefs, they'd tell them. If they don't, I assume they don't want others to know. In other words, if I don't want you to know, I wouldn't tell you, and you don't need to know. It's none of anyone else's business what my beliefs are unless I choose to share them. Many LaVeyan Satanists, in fact, do not share that they are Satanist with anyone they don't trust very much. Personal preference.

[BC_Druid]

Thanks so much for the great information, Muireannach! It's simply amazing how similar the rules are to my normal train of thought.

[goldenweb]

Thanks Muireannach, for such clear information on what must surely be the most misunderstood philosophy ever. I read the whole thread yesterday, and intended to ask the question that Rain has answered here:

One reason Satanists use that name as opposed to another is specifically for the shock value - many Satanists believe if you see the term and immediately think "evil anti-Christian" you have willingly been spoon-fed misinformation and aren't a Satanist to begin with.

This does seem to me to be making life unnecessarily difficult not only for Satanists but for their children too (referring back to the beginning of the thread), and I can't help wondering why, if there is no belief in Satan the shock-value is so important, especially as the philosophy involves avoiding negative people and influences. The label alone will attract those. The originator of this philosophy may have given it that name, but in my honest opinion the followers would have been better off without it. One could also say the same of witchcraft, although to a lesser extent - the term 'witch' has been corrupted and demonised by Shakespeare and the church, yet misunderstandings could so easily have been avoided with the adoption of a different term. Gardner possibly revelled in the notoriety, (a quick road to fame), LaVey also. I have no wish to offend anyone with the above thoughts, it's just difficult to understand why a group of people with reasonable beliefs would put themselves beyond acceptance by the mainstream of the population merely by virtue(!) of a name.

[Erebus]

Woo! Love the FAQ!

Just one thing niggles at me. Please forgive me if it's been mentioned already (It's tough to read 10 pages). Sure, atheists and all, but atheism merely precludes a belief in diety, not an afterlife. It's tougher to justify the existence of an afterlife without a diety, but I've seen it done before.

[Rain Gnosis]

I have no wish to offend anyone with the above thoughts, it's just difficult to understand why a group of people with reasonable beliefs would put themselves beyond acceptance by the mainstream of the population merely by virtue(!) of a name.

Understandable, and as I mentioned in a later post, many Satanists in fact don't say they're Satanist for that reason. I think some use the term "witch" for the shock value as well. I guess it's just up to the individual and I can certainly see your point :)

[fay]

Woo! Love the FAQ!

Just one thing niggles at me. Please forgive me if it's been mentioned already (It's tough to read 10 pages). Sure, atheists and all, but atheism merely precludes a belief in diety, not an afterlife. It's tougher to justify the existence of an afterlife without a diety, but I've seen it done before.
im not a satanist so im not sure if ive got this right but i dont think satanists do believe in an afterlife. they believe in the here and now and nothing after that.
i think thats right anyway
blessed be

[Dusk]

How many here have flown?

One of the messages given at the beginning of every flight (in the US at least) regards oxygen masks. We are told, if the oxygen masks drop, put on your own mask before helping others (including children) with their masks.

As a Satanist, I take care of myself before others.

[poetic]

But that has a clear consequence. The kid can't put his own mask on and we don't want Mommy to pass out, so Mommy puts hers on first and then helps the kid. It isn't placing her life above his, it is just being practical.

Thanks for the FAQ. Although I don't agree with Satanism I now have a better idea of what it is all about. :smile:

[Rain Gnosis]

Yes, and quite often, putting yourself first has a clear consequence and is practical common sense. Putting oneself first and practicality are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It also doesn't require putting your life above others, it requires putting your self first.

[Rain Gnosis]

im not a satanist so im not sure if ive got this right but i dont think satanists do believe in an afterlife. they believe in the here and now and nothing after that.
i think thats right anyway
blessed be

If you look really closely at Erebus' post again, just below his/her nick you'll see she/he considers him/herself a Satanist. So I would imagine that suggests some Satanists believe in an afterlife, some don't.

[Muireannach]

If you look really closely at Erebus' post again, just below his/her nick you'll see she/he considers him/herself a Satanist. So I would imagine that suggests some Satanists believe in an afterlife, some don't.

The majority of those in the Church of Satab are athiests. Those who believe in the afterlife but yet consider themselves Satanists can be considered Satanists, but essentially they are not completely in line with the majority of Satanists and the philosophies of LaVey. Satanism is against "spiritual pipe dreams" and an afterlife fits into that definition.

[Rain Gnosis]

The majority of those in the Church of Satab are athiests. Those who believe in the afterlife but yet consider themselves Satanists can be considered Satanists, but essentially they are not completely in line with the majority of Satanists and the philosophies of LaVey. Satanism is against "spiritual pipe dreams" and an afterlife fits into that definition.

So to make a long story short, as I said, some Satanists do, some don't. :lol:

That's the funny thing - the only thing you can say about Satanists for sure is that they aren't all going to agree on the same things :). Since an essential principle of Satanism is to think for oneself, disagreement and individual belief are common. Which makes a lot of Satanic forums pretty heated, but at least leads to some fascinating debate.

It's like you'll find a lot of Satanists who