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mucgwyrt
May 7th, 2004, 05:15 AM
As suggested by Aefentid, I'm starting a thread on runes.

If anyone has any kick arse websites or books to recommend, could you post them below?
(i've just realised, talking to Mothwench, how totally crap the book I have on runes is! :lol: )

Ta :smile:

aefentid
May 7th, 2004, 06:08 AM
As suggested by Aefentid, I'm starting a thread on runes.

If anyone has any kick arse websites or books to recommend, could you post them below?
(i've just realised, talking to Mothwench, how totally crap the book I have on runes is! :lol: )

Ta :smile:
Which book do you have?

Here are my favorite rune sites

Runes , Alphabet of Mystery, this is the Sunnyway site that has just about everything you can think of related to runes on it.
http://sunnyway.com/runes/

The Ealdriht Rune page, the entire site is good but be sure to check out the reading list, and the page on learning the runes.
http://www.ealdriht.org/runes.html

Jordsvin's rune of the month articles, indepth articles about each rune.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin/Runes/Rune%20Of%20The%20Month/Index.htm

Books
Edred Thorsson (he also writes under the name Stephen E. Flowers), I personally find him too ceremonial, but he's regarded as one of the better authors when it comes to runes. In particular I recommend Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic.

Freya Aswynn, people tend to either love her or hate her, before she became a Heathen she was a Wiccan and there is some Wiccan influence in her work. She's honest about it though and admits where her ideas and interpretations come from. While I don't agree with everything she says I love her work and my copy of Northern Mysteries and magic is dogeared from frequent use.

Nigel Pennick is another author I like, I've read several of his book and I've found them all to be good.

Bernard King and R.I. Page authors I haven't read yet that I've heard good things about.

in frith,
Æfentid

mucgwyrt
May 7th, 2004, 06:13 AM
I have a beginners guide type of thing, Cassandra Eason's "Runes talk to woman within". Not very good, though her tarot book can't be bashed.
What doesn't help, is its Anglo-Saxon, and my set it Elder-Whatsit. I think when I make a set though, I'd like to stick to Anglo-Saxon if thats the one my country (Britain) first had...

WolfMoon
May 7th, 2004, 07:04 AM
I like Edred Thorrsen and Freya Aswyn.

Not ony does Thorrsen have Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic, which is very good, he's also got Northern Magic.

mothwench
May 7th, 2004, 12:07 PM
oh, cool! a rune thread! :floating:

WolfMoon
May 7th, 2004, 04:36 PM
Here's a question...how many people use the blank rune?

Nitefalle
May 7th, 2004, 05:21 PM
I don't. When I would do readings for my brother, I would leave it out or draw another if he picked it. He liked it, but I don't use it. I mean the source of divination is to draw conclusions or look for answers or messages. If I wanted a "Try again later" message, I'd get a magic 8 ball.

~N~

WolfMoon
May 7th, 2004, 05:25 PM
I have mixed feelings about the blank rune. While supposedly a recent addition, I've known people who've used it for years and gotten good results off of it.

I don't use runes myself, but I do study them. Don't use them because I just don't think I'm ready yet for that.

mothwench
May 7th, 2004, 07:32 PM
i haven't used the blank rune up until now, though recently someone posted in my rune thread in m&r and gave me the idea to use the blank rune to represent wyrd.

anyway, i wanted to drop in some links :floating:

great for beginners, the trusty ol' sunnyway.com site:
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/index.html

my newest find: not necessarily any good for learning, but fun to just have a lookey, this is a swedish fellow who makes rune inscriptions, his stones are really cool. :D http://www.runristare.se/english/index.html

some pretty good instructions for making runes, and bonding with them: http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/runemaking.html

historic rune poems
http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/runepoems.html

historic rune stones:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/monuments.html#runestones
especially these ones: http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/sigurdstone.html

different runes from different regions and times:
http://my.execpc.com/~gronitz/futhark/meanings.html

one very extensive site about rune meanings, i still haven't got through the whole site, but it's very good, in any case:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin/Runes/Rune%20Of%20The%20Month/Index.htm

runic inscriptions from the first period, a study on pdf file:
http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/InEnglish/2eng.pdf

and... :boing: one whopping big pdf file: online book by Tineke Looijenga: Runes around the North Sea and on the Continent AD 150 - 700
http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/arts/j.h.looijenga/

Xeen
May 7th, 2004, 08:00 PM
I don't use the Blank Rune 'cause, well... it's just kinda silly. But if somebody uses it, and are happy with using it, more power to ya ^-^

I know there are some people who feel strongly against using the Blank rune, 'cause it wasn't part of the original shibang.

frigga
May 9th, 2004, 11:20 AM
I really like the sunnyway also. A good book I was leant is the little giant encyclopedia of runes, by Sirona Knight. Lots of norse lore and backround stories behind the runes and rune magic at the end. No blank runes!

frigga
May 9th, 2004, 12:45 PM
The difference between the anglo-saxon runes and the elder futhark is the elder futhark is the original rune alphabet brought by Odin. When the runes started to spread, more symbols were added to represent different meanings and sounds, or taken away, as in the danish version where they have 16 runes instead of 24. As far as divination goes most use the Elder Futhark; when inscribing and writing, most wil use whatever they feel drawn to!

WHITE EAGLE +++
May 10th, 2004, 02:33 AM
Thanks for your thoughts and explaination of the added Runes, I had questioned that myself since i am in the process of carving my own set of Runes.

I am also thankful MACHA set up this discussion thread as I think although we are all learning, we have much to share and it compliments the class very well here!


The difference between the anglo-saxon runes and the elder futhark is the elder futhark is the original rune alphabet brought by Odin. When the runes started to spread, more symbols were added to represent different meanings and sounds, or taken away. I too have recently picked up the Thorrsen Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic

I realize now that book is much more indepth but am glad I was first introduced by another friend, to the simpler, more basic beginner book, A Practical Guide to THE RUNES by Lisa Peschel.


BTW: My Birthday is tomorrow, do you think that would be an appropriate time to do my rune carving ceremony?

aefentid
May 10th, 2004, 03:38 AM
BTW: My Birthday is tomorrow, do you think that would be an appropriate time to do my rune carving ceremony?
:happybday

That sounds fine. I've also heard that carving a rune a day while doing in depth meditations on the rune is good, I did mine all in one day I was too impatient to do one a day.

in frith,
Æfentid

mucgwyrt
May 10th, 2004, 04:38 AM
I really like the idea of Wyrd. I dont see it as a "try again later", its more of a blank-slate - your destiny is what you want to make of it, anythings possible.

Edit: I have just read that some people think Wyrd is redundant, because of Peorth "the Gambling cup". I disagree. To me (a beginner :D ), Peorth is a gamble, fate is in the hands of the gods etc etc whereas I feel that Wyrd rests fate in the hands of the reader. Wyrd is a blank slate upon which anything you choose can be written.

I would never leave Wyrd out of a reading, it would be like leaving the Tower out of my tarot deck :D

frigga
May 10th, 2004, 11:43 AM
The runes are whay brought me to Heathenry, I loved the stories behind them and the mythology. I've made my runes and learn their meanings one day at a time, it helps me really understand them and become personally involved with them. I don't use the blank rune because it wasn't included in the original alphabet. I feel they each have a meaning for a reason, and there are 24 for a reason. To add an extra for another reason, even to add wyrd to the mix, seems to me to take away from the sanctity of knowledge that was handed down. I also think it somewhat defiets the purpose of a reading. You want to know what the runes say, not ask again later, or put what you want here. It would be like having a blank tarot card in your deck! I don't mean to upset anyone by this, please don't get the wrong idea. If you use a blank rune, I respect that!

mucgwyrt
May 10th, 2004, 11:55 AM
The runes are whay brought me to Heathenry, I loved the stories behind them and the mythology. I've made my runes and learn their meanings one day at a time, it helps me really understand them and become personally involved with them. I don't use the blank rune because it wasn't included in the original alphabet. I feel they each have a meaning for a reason, and there are 24 for a reason. To add an extra for another reason, even to add wyrd to the mix, seems to me to take away from the sanctity of knowledge that was handed down. I also think it somewhat defiets the purpose of a reading. You want to know what the runes say, not ask again later, or put what you want here. It would be like having a blank tarot card in your deck! I don't mean to upset anyone by this, please don't get the wrong idea. If you use a blank rune, I respect that!

I guess I feel that Wyrd is still offering advice, its saying "whatever you do will be right regardless of the consequences, simply because its what you want". And surely it was used in the original alphabet, though perhaps not the way you mean; it was the wood on which the message was written, the "Blank Slate" which is Wyrd :smile:

I respect people's decision to leave it out, you have to do whats right for you. However I'd feel I was missing a bit of the puzzle :)

edit: here's a thread (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=900148#post900148) I started on making Runes, and their associated wood etc. If anyone could help us out with that, I'd be everso greatful. Your buddy for life, infact :D

mucgwyrt
May 11th, 2004, 04:37 AM
aefentid; I've been studying the anglo-saxon-rune poem;
What are "æthelings"? (written under "Cen")

aefentid
May 11th, 2004, 04:58 AM
aefentid; I've been studying the anglo-saxon-rune poem;
What are "æthelings"? (written under "Cen")
Æthelings are princes.

in frith,
Æfentid

mucgwyrt
May 11th, 2004, 05:07 AM
Æthelings are princes.

in frith,
Æfentid

and "æþelings" - princesses? Or just a different spelling?

aefentid
May 11th, 2004, 06:07 AM
and "æþelings" - princesses? Or just a different spelling?It's just a different spelling þ = th.

in frith,
Æfentid

mothwench
May 11th, 2004, 03:56 PM
hey, how do you type that th thingy? :huh: and what about the a stuck to the e?

oh, and this reminds me, i have a question: is there a runic representation of sh or ch? or would it simply be sowelo and hagalaz?

aefentid
May 11th, 2004, 06:42 PM
hey, how do you type that th thingy? :huh: and what about the a stuck to the e?For Æ you hold down the Alt key while typing 0198 on the number keypad
æ is ALT 0230
I can't figure out what þ is so I just copy and paste it.


oh, and this reminds me, i have a question: is there a runic representation of sh or ch? or would it simply be sowelo and hagalaz?
I'm pretty sure that sh is sowelo and hagalaz and ch is kenaz and hagalaz.

in frith,
Æfentid

mothwench
May 11th, 2004, 07:55 PM
For Æ you hold down the Alt key while typing 0198 on the number keypad
æ is ALT 0230
I can't figure out what þ is so I just copy and paste it.


I'm pretty sure that sh is sowelo and hagalaz and ch is kenaz and hagalaz.

in frith,
Æfentid

:D thænk you, Æfentid!

mothwench
May 12th, 2004, 11:46 AM
one other question: would anyone here see rune divination as a form of seidr or spae?

aefentid
May 13th, 2004, 08:13 PM
I don't think divination could be considered a form of seidr or spae, however I just came across an article dealing with the runes and spaefaring that you might find interesting.
http://www.ealdriht.org/haligwaerstow/runemed.html

in frith,
Æfentid

Gala
May 14th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Books
Edred Thorsson (he also writes under the name Stephen E. Flowers), I personally find him too ceremonial, but he's regarded as one of the better authors when it comes to runes. In particular I recommend Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic.

Freya Aswynn, people tend to either love her or hate her, before she became a Heathen she was a Wiccan and there is some Wiccan influence in her work. She's honest about it though and admits where her ideas and interpretations come from. While I don't agree with everything she says I love her work and my copy of Northern Mysteries and magic is dogeared from frequent use.

Nigel Pennick is another author I like, I've read several of his book and I've found them all to be good.

Bernard King and R.I. Page authors I haven't read yet that I've heard good things about.

in frith,
Æfentid

The very first pagan book of anykind I bought is Aswynn's Leaves of Yggdrasil
I've used it so much that it's taped, and I had to put clear contact paper over the cover to keep it from falling apart.
Then I bought the Thorrsen book... I agree, it is very ceremonial and I find to rigid for me.
Although I still use it as resource, except I can't find it. :(

I Mostly use the diviniation info from the Aswynn book and the few charms that she has in it.

I use it all together though. Green Witchcraft, Everyday Magic, etc.

mucgwyrt
May 19th, 2004, 10:43 AM
Does anyone know what the colons on this mean?

http://www.ragweedforge.com/5123.jpg

mothwench
May 19th, 2004, 11:38 AM
:foh: what's that?
do you mean the colons as in two dots? i think they just indicate a space or new word, but i'm not sure.

mucgwyrt
May 19th, 2004, 11:50 AM
Ahhhh I seeee :D

mothwench
May 19th, 2004, 12:15 PM
:lol: what is the big silver thingy? :huh:

mothwench
May 19th, 2004, 02:33 PM
aefentid, what does troth actually mean?
as in

Ale runes shall you know
If you desire no other's wife
To deceive you in troth, if you trust.
They shall be cut on the horn
And on the hand's back
And mark the need rune on your nail.

mucgwyrt
May 20th, 2004, 09:03 AM
I'm not sure to be honest, I just searched for images for Freyr-Ing, and it came up. Some sort of replica of something :huh: Would LOVE to know what it said, but even if I translated the runes into English letters, I dont speak scandinavian/anglo-saxon/whatever :D
I am so falling in love with Ing, he's just fantastic *swoon*

mothwench
May 20th, 2004, 03:46 PM
here's a link to a site i posted earlier in the making runes thread, but i thought i'd put it here, too, for reference sake. it's about historical rune magic as told about in the saga of the volsungs.
http://my.execpc.com/~gronitz/futhark/myth/volsungs.html




when i cross-referenced to see if the information on that site was accurate, i couldn't actually find anything in chapter 21 as they say it is on the site. at first i was terribly dissapointed, but then i found it in chapter 20.
:floating: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/vlsng/vlsng22.htm

frigga
June 4th, 2004, 04:09 PM
So I'm going over rune meanings again and I can't quite seem to wrap my head around Wunjo. I'm finding a lot of contradictory meanings and my meditations on it aren't bringing me any closer argh! What do you guys and gals have to say or rather how do you percieve wunjo?

mothwench
June 8th, 2004, 04:16 PM
oh, hey. just saw this now.
wunjo is... hmmm. a good time. a joyride. high hopes and confidence. and pride. :D :D :D
but it can also be a drunken stupor. :drinking:

mucgwyrt
June 9th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Go drunken stupor :woot:

:cheers:

Tzhebee
June 9th, 2004, 12:28 PM
You make the þ by using ALT+0254. :D

banondraig
June 25th, 2004, 03:51 PM
hi all!

i just read A Practical Guide to THE RUNES by Lisa Peschel. it's got a lot of Wiccan influence, so i was wondering if the meanings listed are really accurate.

in particular, it lists Gyfu (Gebo?) as being related to love, even of the romantic kind, as opposed to sacrifice, which i have also heard attributed to Gebo. which is correct, or is it both, only in different senses?

mucgwyrt
June 26th, 2004, 04:56 AM
For Gyfu love is correct imo, as you need to bear in mind it's basic meaning is "exchange" - an exchange of love, of emotion, of life spent together, of gifts - whatever.
I suppose it could be given to mean sacrifice, but I'm not sure I would see it as such. I have read that in Norse lands, one gift always warranted another in return, so you wouldn't really sacrificing anyhting, because you would get something in return, either phsically or karma, or emotionally when talking about love. But thats just my opinon :smile:
edit: perhaps they are connecting its shape to the christian cross, and inferring that meaning upon it?

I dont recommend Freya Aswyn's Leaves of Yggdrasil or her new edition, Northern Mysteries n Magic - she's a bit fluffy and historically/mythologically innacurate.

banondraig
June 26th, 2004, 08:10 AM
edit: perhaps they are connecting its shape to the christian cross, and inferring that meaning upon it?


hmm, that's an interesting thought. i don't remember where i saw that thing about sacrifice, oh well.

thanks for the pointer. :)

banondraig
June 26th, 2004, 08:30 AM
hi folks!

i saw this house outside of dublin, ireland. it hs some really interesting timberwork, doesn't it? :bigblue:

banondraig
June 26th, 2004, 08:31 AM
errg! where is it? trying again . . .

banondraig
June 26th, 2004, 08:36 AM

magick_faerie
June 26th, 2004, 09:41 AM
hey everyone. im wanting to learn about runes. anyone shed some light on the best place to start??

Speak soon

Faerie
xxx

banondraig
June 26th, 2004, 10:26 AM
there's a bunch of good links on page 1 of this thread.

mothwench
June 30th, 2004, 03:25 PM
hey, cool! i can see algiz, laguz, but there are too many nauthiz in there... i wouldn't move in there. :lookaroun

banondraig
June 30th, 2004, 04:55 PM
i noticed a lot of isa myself. i notice some variation between the names people call the individual runes. what version are you using?

mucgwyrt
July 1st, 2004, 04:15 AM
She uses the 'wierd' version ;)
I use the Anglo-Saxon furþarc.

WHITE EAGLE +++
July 1st, 2004, 11:27 PM
cool post! I had only started to notice the Runes in arcitecture (and nature) recently and I think this picture is a great example of its use.

I first realized this comone and albiet conspicuous use of Runes because of the example they show in the book RIGHTS OF ODIN.

I was thinking of making some latice work for the side of our garage, that would allow the vines to climb, but also bless them with a rune design embeded in the latice fence. Any suggestions?

W. E. +++

mucgwyrt
July 2nd, 2004, 09:18 AM
1) The Anglo-Saxons have their own runic furþarc, but I have honestly never heard of its specific use. Can anyone give any examples?

2) I have seen Eohl-Secg (Algiz) written upside down in carvings - do you think this would reverse its meaning, being upside down? Could it be used as such to infer than what the name I saw it in (I forget) was not a good protector? Or am I thinking too "neo"? :lol:

mothwench
July 3rd, 2004, 05:07 PM
i noticed a lot of isa myself. i notice some variation between the names people call the individual runes. what version are you using?

isa... yup. it's probably quite impossible to build a house without incorperating isa.
but here's an idea: it seems kind of negative at first but if you apply its meanings to the wooden framework of a house: death, immotion, stagnation and standstill, it makes a lot of sense. cause you wouldn't want to build a house with live wood, right? i guess.
:fpartyfav

mothwench
July 3rd, 2004, 05:10 PM
She uses the 'wierd' version ;)
I use the Anglo-Saxon furþarc.
:fishsmack
no, SHE uses the weird version. :p i use the elder futhark. :dancy:


edited to add: i've been wondering about algiz upside down too. :twitch: but i think it's also upside down in some rune inscriptions... maybe it didn't matter. :wtf: eeeehhhh.... maybe some ppl thought it was too top heavy?
*scratches head* i dunno.

mucgwyrt
July 5th, 2004, 04:26 AM
Apparently in Germany upright-eohl-secg was used to mark date of birth, and upside down eohl-secg to mark date of death on gravestones...

Also Moth, I spoke to someone about Isa being present in other runes, and they suggested that it didn't mean that all runes contained Isa (and therefore all it's negative aspects) but more that it contains the potential for isa, if you get what I mean :) Made sense.

Seren_
July 6th, 2004, 05:36 AM
This link has some interesting articles:

http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=runes.html

mothwench
July 6th, 2004, 11:41 AM
This link has some interesting articles:

http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=runes.html

it does. that second one i just spent too much time reading, was really interesting. :thewave: thankies. :D

Morag Elasaid Ni Dhomhnaill
July 6th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Seren is getting to be just as useful as Nantonos, mayhaps she should be a plaything too. :lol:

Seren_
July 6th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Seren is getting to be just as useful as Nantonos, mayhaps she should be a plaything too. :lol:

:hehehehe:
Bring out the gimp?

Morag Elasaid Ni Dhomhnaill
July 6th, 2004, 09:03 PM
:woot: We have a new toy!!!!

mucgwyrt
July 7th, 2004, 04:01 AM
:yourock:

Nantonos
July 18th, 2004, 01:08 PM
A runic picture stone from Resmo, Öland, Sweden. The painting is modern but based on historical evidence concerning colors used and the use of alternate colors in rune phrases.

http://www.mysticwicks.com/photoalbum/displayimage.php?pos=-2981


http://www.mysticwicks.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/18360/normal_resmo.jpg

According to the museum, this was used as an end-strone of a coffin and says, "Ina (erected) the stones after Sveina, her husband".

mucgwyrt
July 19th, 2004, 09:29 AM
Very nice :D

Anyone know what the difference in use is between regular runes and "wend-runes"? (wend-runes are written mirrored and from right-to-left...)

Nantonos
July 19th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Very nice :D

Anyone know what the difference in use is between regular runes and "wend-runes"? (wend-runes are written mirrored and from right-to-left...)

Never heard of them, sorry. On the other hand I did recently come across the concept of 'staveless runes' which were new to me.

magick_faerie
July 19th, 2004, 11:23 AM
can i just say, thanks everyone for the reading list etc, they have been really helpful. **is still wondering where everone has got their banners from**

Brightest Blessings

Fae

mucgwyrt
July 19th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Never heard of them, sorry. On the other hand I did recently come across the concept of 'staveless runes' which were new to me.

:stooges: :lol:

I did a search on "wend-runes" and came up with not one link. They're referred to in "A History of Pagan Europe" by Prudence Jones, which I'm not terribley impressed with anyway. It could be fluffy-bunny-talk :whatgives

mothwench
July 19th, 2004, 04:42 PM
according to this site:
http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/runes.html


There were also many alternative ways of writing a rune, this alternative versions were probably used for magical purposes, this versions have been divided into "begriffsrunen", "wenderunen", "sturzrunen", "spiegelrunen" and "binderunen" by modern German runologists, I shall now describe those three types:

it sounds pretty neo-pagan to me... i've been wondering the same about the "merkstave" runes.

edited to add: i've looked at some german sites, and as far as i can tell it's just a german word for runes that are mirrored in inscriptions, probably more for ornamental purposes than magical ones. there was no reference to the actual symbology or meaning of the rune being inverted

mucgwyrt
July 20th, 2004, 04:42 AM
Ahhhh :smile:

Yeah, merkastave is redundant, imo.
The rune already contains both the positive and the negative; just because you can't invert Gyfu doesn't mean you can't be a selfish old miser :lol:

mucgwyrt
July 20th, 2004, 10:20 AM
I saw a list of all the places runes appeared in the saga's a while back - I think Moth sent the link to me - but now I can't find it. Does anyone still have that link?

mothwench
July 20th, 2004, 12:36 PM
i still haven't got my bookmarks yet... i could copy them tonight. yeah, i think i'll do that. i'll have a look then. :steppy:

mothwench
July 20th, 2004, 03:43 PM
I saw a list of all the places runes appeared in the saga's a while back - I think Moth sent the link to me - but now I can't find it. Does anyone still have that link?
oh, wait a minute... that wasn't me, that was seren's link. hang on... it's just a few pages back, innit?

edited to add: here it is again, my lovely. :cutie: http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=runes.html
it was one of the top two articles.

cheers again, seren. :yourock:

mucgwyrt
July 21st, 2004, 04:03 AM
:rotfl: just a few pages back - I was so near yet so far :rolleyes:
Thanks Mothwench :D

mothwench
July 23rd, 2004, 08:03 AM
has anyone else heard of this before?

do you think the nidstang was named after the rune, or was the rune named after the nidstang?

info on the nidstang: http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=nidstang.html

mucgwyrt
July 23rd, 2004, 10:29 AM
Which rune is called sidstang? :huh:

banondraig
July 23rd, 2004, 02:02 PM
i've run across that page before, will have to bookmark it in case of future questions along the lines of, "isn't that like nazis?" i am surrounded by stupid people here, at close quarters.

anyhoo, what is the rune called nidstang? inquiring minds want to know . . .

mothwench
July 23rd, 2004, 02:50 PM
:bigredblu sorry i forgot to say. nauthiz or nyd.

banondraig
July 23rd, 2004, 03:01 PM
'k thanks.

mucgwyrt
July 25th, 2004, 09:10 AM
Nidstang = nid stang = nied stick/pole (duh, silly me)

Anyhoo... I would guess the rune came first, but that's just a guess. Else I doubt it would have had the name 'nid'stang; surely would have been something more obvious like... death-pole or curse-pole... or pony o' dooooom! ;)

mothwench
July 25th, 2004, 12:12 PM
:p you're silly, you. :T

mucgwyrt
July 26th, 2004, 05:19 AM
:p you're silly, you. :T

But OH so cute :D