could astrology be a 'path'

[punxzen]

anyone have any opinions on this? astrology as a spiritual path. i dunno where this could go, but its something that just occured to me as i was wondering what kind of path ive been following. my 'path', if i really am on one, seems to be very astrology based, at least in regards to ... well everything. i dont think i have time to elucidate as fully as i want to, but i can say that my 'matron' goddess, whom im really not sure if i should call her that since shes somewhat ... unorthodox, is entirely ... well shes entirety in its entirety... maybe if i mention that shes a vague personification of synchronicity and fate, and anyway my point is that it wasnt until after i had my revelation concerning her that i allowed myself to consider astrology as something other than absurd. good god i have to stop writing these posts right before i go to bed....

what do yall think?? astrology as a 'path', like its own path in and of itself like wicca or something. obviously lots of other paths draw from it, but as its own... thoughts, opinions, revelations?

[Lady Jade]

This could be your realm of expertise! Follow your heart and your guides, maybe this is YOUR path!

[punxzen]

:hmmmmm: :idea: hmm yes, :) my path

:sleepy: :zzzzZZZ:

[banondraig]

it's certainly complex enough. i'd be curious as to where practice, as opposed to analysis which is usually the main focus of astrology, comes in. would you be willing to share?

[Shanti]

If its your heart that leads you there..its your path.

[Ben Trismegistus]

A spiritual path? No, I don't think so. I think astrology is a tool, not a spirituality unto itself. That's why it fits so well into so many spiritual paths.

[Boo Radley]

I'm new here, but I can't help but comment. Let me give the question, "can astology be a path," a resounding yes. In my opinion the best way to proceed along that path toward becoming more than you are is to first obtain a natal chart. Next get some good books by reputable people like Stephen Arroyo, Liz Green, and others. Learn to interpret your own chart. This will show you your strengths and your weaknesses in many areas of life. Next, start using pray, meditation, ritual, or whatever other tools you prefer, to learn to expand your strengths and eliminate your weaknesses.

Some essential books include;

The chart interpretation Handbook
Astrology, Psychology, and the Four Elements
Astrology, Karma, and Transformation

All 3 are by Stephen Arroyo.

Go For It and Have Fun with It!

Boo Radley

[Kadynas]

For me it's a very deep part of my path. :) While my "label" would be Hellenic Wiccan, I blend that with astrology in that even though the planets have Roman names, I see the planet Mars as a symbol for the god Ares, etc. As such it offers me what feels like a more "direct link" with my gods, so to speak. :) Through looking at my transits, I'm able to see their hands at work in my life.

While Astrology isn't my "path" per se, there /are/ some who do use it as such... Stephen Arroyo refers to these people in his work at times. :) Especially with the in-depth books out there nowadays... A big influence for me when I first discovered Wicca was Maria Kay Simms, whose books - and covens - focus almost entirely on the astrological symbolism of the esbats and sabbats. (The Witches Circle and A Time for Magick are excellent) Also Ariel Guttman has co-authored two amazing books: Mythic Astrology & Mythic Astrology Applied. (Be careful when ordering on Amazon - they're two different books with VERY similar cover art.) :)

[Xander67]

I also look at Astrology as a Tool, like the Tarot, ... Astology is used to help provide insight when used this way...

The Moon effects the tides in China, as well as in our own coastal areas :)

so I think it is something that can be very much a part of one's path in that he or she is well studied and uses the planetary calendars to give him calrity as to what is going on in the universe as well as in thier individual lives.

[punxzen]

it's certainly complex enough. i'd be curious as to where practice, as opposed to analysis which is usually the main focus of astrology, comes in. would you be willing to share?

good question, and im not sure i know what the practice would be. to me, the practice is an internal one. its all about learning how to adapt and see. taking an issue, be it a person falling on hard times or a new piece of legislation moving through the government, and incorporating it into a larger malleable view of things. at the risk of sounding like some dude on ecstasy for the first time trying to describe what he feels... its like theres this circle, but its not just one circle, its a A LOT of circles, but really its a whole bunch of circles that work together as part of one giant circle...woahh :lol:

no but seriously, its about as difficult to describe as any other spiritual epiphany like experience which seem to be flitting through my head on a rather regular basis lately.

essentially, astrology is a timeless practice of connecting the macrocosm/microcosm dots

i think that this practice is not so much something i do, as much as it is something that does to me. i have never hand drawn a chart or even calculated anything as there is software for that, nor have i ever done a reading for anyone. that stuff is good and fine and all, but i seem to be undergoing some sort of transformation

my mind is loosening up and no longer grips and constricts the concepts that i happen upon, but rather its like i dance with them and watch them and develop a kind of intuited rhythm with these forces that are larger than life, but shrinkable into the most diminutive concepts. like im taking the planets and shrinking them down and juggling them, or attempting to. i think its more like im taking the planets and sitting and watching them and holding them and getting a feel for them and in the process im letting my whole being shift in response to forces which seem so intuitive as to feel almost non-existent... :lol: omgs i dont know where this is going but its good to be trying to communicate it

one of the most easily recognizable changes is my loosening of my constrictive grip on things in my head, a relaxing of the objective factual truth of cause and effect relationships. instead im learning to see things as truly cyclical and much more free. im losing trust in certain 'laws' that i used to take for granted and im learning how to form associations free from bias. its strangely beautiful and i wanna follow this rabbit hole as deep as it will go but it almost feels like im already there and im missing something somewhere.

so i think my point is that the practice or path im partaking in is one of transformation that so far seems to be perpetual. in other words i dont think im transforming from one thing to another so much as im learning how to transform my thought reality at will. this is the practice, and it may not fit the term astrology as a path, but somehow it feels right to me anyhow. astrology, to me, is the observance of unalterable facts and how they play a role in our existence. the matron goddess i mentioned in my first post is one that i happened upon while shroomin. after facing my demons for a couple hours and coming to realize who i am firmly, i saw myself as a reflection of the will of this goddess whom i am not sure i want to call a goddess considering that its more like the concept of tao than a goddess figure. more like anti-will, and so my friend and i had some deep discussions on this and we termed this goddess/tao/anti-will thing Feyte, cuz shes rather fey :shhhh: :p

Feyte is free from my critical, cynical mind, and this is rather incredible. it was around this time that i also started reading about taoism and very soon after i was told 'hey you were born in pisces', and i was like :o 'okay, whats that mean?' and somehow i let go of my previous cynicism for long enough to recognize a very distinctive taoist flavor to astrology. im still learning and to me, that feels like the path or practice, the learning. and its not like learning in the sense of gaining knowledge, but more like reshaping my mind and giving me intuitive understanding as well as the will to keep growing.

and so now uranus is conjuncting my natal sun at 6* pisces and neptune is conjuncting my natal mercury at 15* aqaurius. somehow, these truths seem totally evident, but at the same time totally illusory. this is like sliding around on the outer coating of a jagged gemstone, trying to understand the core of what im saying is difficult for even me so i apologize for carrying you through such a long-winded description of essentially nothing at all... or maybe there is something :rolleyes: maybe ill know tommorrow

[scaerie faerie]

I agree with what Ben T said - that it's more a skill, tool or discipline than a path in itself, although for me personally it runs alongside my path constantly and with a great deal of influence. I focus heavily on the elements and such in my spirituality, and so there is a relationship there, but I do perceive it as more of a skill than a branch of spirituality. :)

[Hamelyn]

To me... standing alone, Astrology isn't exactly a path. I'm not very well-versed in astrology but in my mind it's a mystic science. Now, studying it and incorporating it into your work can be a life's work- which I suppose is a path's basic definition- and it could work. If you have that good of a knack for it then take the idea and run with it. *nod, nod* The strength of various astrology forms is that it can be studied intensely on its own no matter what your over-arching faith is. Then again, from a shamanic view I can easily see the celestial bodies as radiating entities of their own, and forming an almost pantheon view of it. Sounds like you could make it into one.

[punxzen]

To me... standing alone, Astrology isn't exactly a path. I'm not very well-versed in astrology but in my mind it's a mystic science. Now, studying it and incorporating it into your work can be a life's work- which I suppose is a path's basic definition- and it could work. If you have that good of a knack for it then take the idea and run with it. *nod, nod* The strength of various astrology forms is that it can be studied intensely on its own no matter what your over-arching faith is. Then again, from a shamanic view I can easily see the celestial bodies as radiating entities of their own, and forming an almost pantheon view of it. Sounds like you could make it into one.

AYE AYE AYE!!!! thats what it is!!! a mystic science!!! beautifully put!! and i think thats what ive been doing essentially, taking the celestial bodies as a very tightknit archetypal pantheon. :colorful:

[Hamelyn]

Always a pleasure to be of service, mwahaha. :)

[Boo Radley]

I've been thinking about this whole question of "The Path" since I first posted to this thread yesterday, and I have remembered some things I should never have forgotten. Namely, there is no such thing as not being on "The Path." Life itself is "The Path." No matter what tools I am using, or not using, the direction I am going is the important thing. Am I progressing or regressing? That is the key question. There are many tools I can use as focal points that make progress more definitive, but the real key to making any tool work is personal effort. The laws of physics tell us the only way you can coast is downhill. When effort stops, upward movement stops, and I gradually slip into a regressive mode.

Perhaps we can take a good metaphore from Pauls writings. He said that our ultimate goal is conformity to the image of God's Son. In other words the goal of humanity is the complete actualization of the Christ Spirit that lives within all. Now I'm assuming that most people who post here will have some knowledge of western theories of reincarnation: ie once a human always a human, and there is no such thing as the transmigration of souls. So we each live many human lives, and in each life we learn lessons we determined before incarnating into another human form. The natal horoscope plays a very large role in determing how these lessons manifest. The theory is that we choose the time and place of each birth so that we will experience planetary influences that aid our efforts to advance "unto the perfect man."

The natal horoscope is an important tool because it connects the time bound self of here and now to the eternal self that chose the lessons we are here to learn. Lessons are much easier to learn when I know what they are!

Boo Radley

[Hamelyn]

Complex but/and well-said.

[Kadynas]

Punxzen: You know after rereading your first post, are you sure Urania (Muse of astronomy/astrology) hasn't paid you a little visit? :)

[punxzen]

Punxzen: You know after rereading your first post, are you sure Urania (Muse of astronomy/astrology) hasn't paid you a little visit? :)

:bouncybob ~runs off to research Urania~ :graduate:

is that related to Uranus? cuz i know that Uranus is quite literally paying me a visit as it transits my natal Sun.

[Boo Radley]

Uranian is the term used to indicate the influence of Uranus. However, post 15 is far more Plutonian than Uranian. with all things plutonian "deep calls unto deep" with a transformative message.

When It All Gets To Heavy Go Have Fun!
Boo Radley

[Boo Radley]

:bouncybob ~runs off to research Urania~ :graduate:

is that related to Uranus? cuz i know that Uranus is quite literally paying me a visit as it transits my natal Sun.

Very important that you focus on your real priorities during this time. Uranus brings massive energy, but it is difficult to control. Stephen Arroyo's 'Astyrology Karma and Transformation' is a very good place to learn about transits of the outer planets.
Boo

[punxzen]

Very important that you focus on your real priorities during this time. Uranus brings massive energy, but it is difficult to control. Stephen Arroyo's 'Astyrology Karma and Transformation' is a very good place to learn about transits of the outer planets.
Boo

i was looking for that book at barnes today but they didnt have it. i wasnt actually expecting that they would though. their astrology section is a bit lacking. i think i have seen it at borders and will check there next time i am out.

[Kadynas]

Urania - separate from the planet Uranus - is one of the Muses. :)

But Uranus also has "rulership" over the art of astrology. Uranus trys to bring change into your life, to keep you from getting "stuck in a rut" so to speak. It can also bring "flashes" of deep intuitive insight, particularly if you have it in Scorpio natally, and Uranus transiting Pisces seems to emphasize this.

Coincidentally Uranus is sitting all top of my Midheaven at 6 Pisces all month! :lol: I feel like Uranus is kicking me in the butt and saying "Wake up and find your destiny!"

[punxzen]

Urania - separate from the planet Uranus - is one of the Muses. :)

But Uranus also has "rulership" over the art of astrology. Uranus trys to bring change into your life, to keep you from getting "stuck in a rut" so to speak. It can also bring "flashes" of deep intuitive insight, particularly if you have it in Scorpio natally, and Uranus transiting Pisces seems to emphasize this.

Coincidentally Uranus is sitting all top of my Midheaven at 6 Pisces all month! :lol: I feel like Uranus is kicking me in the butt and saying "Wake up and find your destiny!"

haha, right on, hes kicking me in the butt saying "Wake up and find your identity!"

thanks Uranus :) ill do that

and ooooo, i just realized that it wasnt so long ago that he was kicking me in the butt and telling me to find my destiny too!!! i dunno when he was around mid capricorn but it doesnt feel like it was too long ago. :idea: that was when i started getting interested in astrology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

wow i love how things seem to fall together so conveniently lately :boing:

[Boo Radley]

Very good info on Uranus in this thread. In my natal chart the old boy is sextile my ascendant, sextile my sun, and trine the moon. In my 47 years i have become accustomed to the weirdness. One might almost say his weirdness IS my weirdness. But then, one must consider, weirdness is a relative concept:)

Have Fun
Boo

[punxzen]

weirdness is a relative concept:)

aye

some say hes the higher octave of mercury

kinda like neptune being the higher octave of venus

anyone feel like maybe mars' higher octave is pluto?

that leaves the opposites then
jupiter vs saturn and
sun vs moon :spaceman:

[Boo Radley]

aye

some say hes the higher octave of mercury

kinda like neptune being the higher octave of venus

anyone feel like maybe mars' higher octave is pluto?

that leaves the opposites then
jupiter vs saturn and
sun vs moon :spaceman:
well, Pluto and Mars are co-rulers of Scorpio, so ya I guess you couls look at it that way to a certain extent, but you can't push it to hard or it falls flat.
Boo

[punxzen]

well, Pluto and Mars are co-rulers of Scorpio, so ya I guess you couls look at it that way to a certain extent, but you can't push it to hard or it falls flat.
Boo

aye aye :) like a banana, if you rely on it to be a banana that works fine, but when you start trying to build ontop of it, it gets squished :rolleyes: odd comparison i know :p

:dinnertim

[Kadynas]

Well Pluto's sign Scorpio does tend to get a bad rep, but Pluto is a bit more evolved than Mars... :) I tend to go by the theory that we discover new planets when our consciousness is ready to learn from them. Being an Aries engaged to a Scorpio I can tell you, he's definitely the more "evolved" one! :lol: I still have temper tantrums! :lol: I think Pluto - as being the higher octave of Mars, not just in general - teaches how to channel energy better... like using the energy you get when you get all ticked off and using it to fuel something beneficial, like exercise or a creative work of art. :)

[Boo Radley]

Well Pluto's sign Scorpio does tend to get a bad rep, but Pluto is a bit more evolved than Mars... :) I tend to go by the theory that we discover new planets when our consciousness is ready to learn from them. Being an Aries engaged to a Scorpio I can tell you, he's definitely the more "evolved" one! :lol: I still have temper tantrums! :lol: I think Pluto - as being the higher octave of Mars, not just in general - teaches how to channel energy better... like using the energy you get when you get all ticked off and using it to fuel something beneficial, like exercise or a creative work of art. :)

I agree -- and the reason Scorpio gets a bad rap is because modern western socio-economic and cultural norms are not conducive to the development of Scorpios best traits; ie; the shaman-healer and occult-spiritual master. Our western society puts little value on that sort of thing. consequently most scorpio personalities are very frustrated and under-developed.
Boo

[punxzen]

I agree -- and the reason Scorpio gets a bad rap is because modern western socio-economic and cultural norms are not conducive to the development of Scorpios best traits; ie; the shaman-healer and occult-spiritual master. Our western society puts little value on that sort of thing. consequently most scorpio personalities are very frustrated and under-developed.
Boo

so are pisces'

[Kadynas]

so are pisces'
I would agree... we're still in the last part of the Age of Pisces and it seems that we're just now starting to see some of the higher qualities of the sign... I see that very much in your thought processes, punxzen. :) And thank goodness the shaman types are making a come-back! In the words of the great Homer Simpson... "God Bless the Pagans!" :lol:

[punxzen]

my moon in leo thanks you :floating: :p

[Boo Radley]

Speaking as a lunar Pisces I would say yes I agree most pisceans are underdeveloped. I have learned that anyone with lots of pisces influence in the natal chart really needs to channel a lot of their energy into a spiritual endeavor or they will not be very happy.

[Doodlebug]

Well personally, I don't see Astrology as a spiritual path but as a tool like Ben Tresmegistus said or as an aspect of a spiritual path. But that's just my own personal opinion. That's just how I view it. I guess it could be a path. Never really thought of it like that before though.

[Crystal_Raye]

I think astrology could be considered a path and a tool used by other paths depending on how you use and see it.

[punxzen]

Speaking as a lunar Pisces I would say yes I agree most pisceans are underdeveloped. I have learned that anyone with lots of pisces influence in the natal chart really needs to channel a lot of their energy into a spiritual endeavor or they will not be very happy.

we need to channel energy into communicating with the world. Learning/studying/practicing/feeling spirituality is the most comfortable way for a pisces because it tends to open people up to a more embracing, non-judgemental frame of mind. its also good for us because we are 'good' at it .... pisces with leo moons like it for that reason anyhow :nyah: , we like to feel special and unique :boing:

i checked out that book by arroyo and omgoodnes its so awesome. i read through about 60 pages at borders and i can't wait to buy it. i feel like i had a spiritual bath or something while reading it. i just felt like everything he said was so open-ended and all-encompassing that i could use his words to inspire my own musings and like i said, spiritual bath :flowers: it was nice:)

and i decided a lil something about my 'path'
astrology is my map, not my path, but i can certainly understand how i mistook the map for the path since neptune seems to like to merge everything together while he transits over my mercury.

my path is slowly becoming clear to me, and its not labelable :nyah:

oh, and what i said about uranus transitting my MC being when i started getting interested in astrology was wrong. When uranus transited my MC is when i became a vegetarian for the first time and started to lose weight (6 years ago i weighed 225 and i lost 60 lbs while uranus was transitting my MC) which totally makes sense because at the time that was my public image of myself that i made definitive changes to. When uranus was transitting my mercury is when i became interested in astrology, which makes perfect sense as well.

now im kinda curious as to whats gonna happen when neptune transits my sun :raining:

kadynas!!! write your book, thats what uranus is showing you to do. you are ready to transform into an astrologer, and i think there are tons of folks here who are happy to see it happen and eager to offer support. we want you to teach us :D

speaking of which, when do we get our astrology class??? :boing: :boing:

[Boo Radley]

Well, my Pisces moon is in the 6th house, the house of the servant Virgo, opposed by Jupiter in virgo over the 12th house, the house of sorrow and suffering, and Mars is at my Mid Heaven in Cancer. That's why I am a nurse who works in geriatric care. I like spirituality that is out in public and wears practical shoes!

But now here we are bringing the 12 houses in to our conversation, so I will have to talk some of you into buying, Rudhyar's, The Astrological Houses: The Spectrum of Individual experience!

Boo

[Kadynas]

Arroyo is great... reading him is almost like being there for one of his lectures (and indeed some are actually transcribed from them!): a very easy-to-understand conversational style.

You may be right about Uranus pushing me to do more with astrology... everything I write, everything I paint, even my very thoughts lately have been astrological in nature! :lol: As for the class I'm going to try to get the syllabus up before I leave for my "vacation". (Going to mom's for a long weekend. :) ) If all goes well I plan to start my class on June 1st. :)

Boo: Rudyhar's great! I have the book you mentioned but haven't gotten around to reading it just yet. :) I loved Astrology of Personality though, and his book on the Sabian symbols (Astrological Mandala) :)

[charmedkisses1]

Astrology is a tool for a greater path, but it can GREATLY influence your path. :cheers:

[Boo Radley]

Arroyo is great... reading him is almost like being there for one of his lectures (and indeed some are actually transcribed from them!): a very easy-to-understand conversational style.

Boo: Rudyhar's great! I have the book you mentioned but haven't gotten around to reading it just yet. :) I loved Astrology of Personality though, and his book on the Sabian symbols (Astrological Mandala) :)


I have only read excerpts from "The Astrology of Personality." The Astrological Houses is a great read. Rudhyar deals with cycles of life a lot in it. It's Awesome! Arroyo is the first person who started me down the path of actually understanding some things about astrology.

Do you have anything by Isabel Hickey?

Boo

[Kadynas]

Do you have anything by Isabel Hickey?

Astrology: The Cosmic Science. :)

[Boo Radley]

Astrology: The Cosmic Science. :)


Yep -- That's the one I have! It's a bit dogmatic, but I like it.
Boo