Meditation Vs. Imagination

[Arinya]

I am having extreme trouble doing any sort of meditation because i have too active of an imagination. I try to focus on the subject I am meditation on but my mind starts wandering and I'll seem imagery but I can never tell if it's imagery from my meditation or imagery from my imagination and just from random thoughts that are always popping in and out of my head. Okay that might have sounded confusing...let me give an example to help explain further.

I've been trying to do a meditation focusing on dragons and my brain just won't let me do it. Grr, here is what happens. I will lay down and focus on dragons as best I can. My mind will begin to wander a bit at first but I'll bring it back and again focus on dragons. Then my mind will start doing the "I wonder if I'll see anything, I wonder if I'll see this (insert random image that will then pop into my mind) or this (yet another image)". Eventually I can't tell if it's all purely my imagination or acutal meditation. Help!

[Faeawyn]

Since I already replied to this question in the teaching thread...I thought I'd just copy and paste my reply here as well :)

You don't know really. Meditation is simply a way to release your subconcious mind and open your inner self or third eye. Some beings communicate with us thru our subconcious and thru mental images. By opening our mind, we allow those images to flow freely and then we can interpret them later. My meditation could have been my own imagination feeding me images and words....but they could also have been images and words put there for me to see by some other entity, like a dragon .

So if images come into your head that you've never seen before....go with it...let your imagination work. Ask questions, notice sounds and smells..look around in there and see what you can see. Then write it all down and see if you can interpret a message :)
Does that make sense???

[WolfMoon]

I am having extreme trouble doing any sort of meditation because i have too active of an imagination. I try to focus on the subject I am meditation on but my mind starts wandering and I'll seem imagery but I can never tell if it's imagery from my meditation or imagery from my imagination and just from random thoughts that are always popping in and out of my head. Okay that might have sounded confusing...let me give an example to help explain further.

I've been trying to do a meditation focusing on dragons and my brain just won't let me do it. Grr, here is what happens. I will lay down and focus on dragons as best I can. My mind will begin to wander a bit at first but I'll bring it back and again focus on dragons. Then my mind will start doing the "I wonder if I'll see anything, I wonder if I'll see this (insert random image that will then pop into my mind) or this (yet another image)". Eventually I can't tell if it's all purely my imagination or acutal meditation. Help!

I originally had the same problem. I just let the images come and go and filter themselves out naturally. Eventually, your brain 'gets quiet' and you'll find it easier to meditate.

It can take a while of training your mind to quiet down, so it helps if you use some kind of ritual to signal to yourself. Something like lighting a particular incense in your room, pulling down the shades and shutting off the lights works nicely for a lot of people.

[Arinya]

Since I already replied to this question in the teaching thread...I thought I'd just copy and paste my reply here as well :)


Oh Faeawyn I just read that post too in the teaching thread, long after I started this thread though or I would have just left it be. Thanks anyway though, good advice and something for me to try.

[blueangel]

I found that with practice and perseverence it's becomes easier to control everything in your meditative state. You might find chanting something helps you to remain more focused as you have to continually think about the words you are trying to say.

[Ghreyd]

I thought I had the same problem. But it isn't a problem to begin with. What I found is that imagination leads to the real thing. When I was trying to learn to astral project, I imagined my projection night after night, until one night, it felt very different. After about 2 weeks of imagination, it taught me how to do it for real.

[Shanti]

This is from my own expirence....
Imagination can be created and controled by your own mind. A vision is totaly not from your minds creation (and you know its not) and its not controlable by your mind.

Thats how it is for me. :)

[Sierra]

Maybe just a thought -

If you're having so much trouble concentrating on an image, why not start simpler? Focus just on breathing and see how well you can do that.

I usually start with focus on the breath, then I'll switch from there, I find that the easiest way to bring my mind into the proper state.

The way I can tell from simply imagination to meditation imagery is that I'll feel different. If my mind is wandering then I won't feel any different from when my mind is wandering in regular day-to-day life. However, if it's meditation imagery I'll feel... lightheaded is the wrong word, but it's the closest I can think of. It's like almost being asleep but being completely alert at the same time - I think this is generally when the brainwaves are in the delta pattern? I'm no psychologist so I don't know for sure, but I know it's some slower version of brain functions. Or something. Hah! Does anybody here know for sure?

[moonmorgan]

oh wow I just saw this. I was the one that asked that question in the class.

[mothwench]

hey, here's a trick i once learned from an instructor: when you're trying to empty your mind, don't try and block out thoughts by force, that only leads to froughtness.
instead, try and visualize the thoughts as balloons blowing in the breeze, drifting in and out of your mind. and after a bit, you should be able to see the ballons coming from far away and "create breezes" that will keep them away.

[Arinya]

oh wow I just saw this. I was the one that asked that question in the class.

I'm in that class too, we posted out questions about 5hrs apart! I saw yours about a day after I posted mine or I probably never would have started this thread but hey I'm getting some great answers. :)

[Mysticism Deity]

hey, here's a trick i once learned from an instructor: when you're trying to empty your mind, don't try and block out thoughts by force, that only leads to froughtness.
instead, try and visualize the thoughts as balloons blowing in the breeze, drifting in and out of your mind. and after a bit, you should be able to see the ballons coming from far away and "create breezes" that will keep them away.


I have the same problem. when I am done with my yoga routine I like to meditate but have a hard time due to either my imagination going wild or distractions from everyone in my home. I really like your idea on this mothwench. I want to try it out in hopes it will work.

[xblue420x]

this is a rather sensitive subject. its hard to determine what is imagination and what was sent to you as a message or vision of something. both or these come from your subconcsious mind, and some would argue that they are one in the same..that your imagination is what triggers visions and messages, or that messages will trigger your imagination. i guess in the end its a subjective judgement call..with me my imagination is way over elaborate about things, if at first i see or think of a dragon soon it will be a dragon doing a funny little dance with fire coming out of its butt who suddenly slips on a giant turtle shell and lays there crying for an hour...usually i can tell when im seeing a vision or a message because itll be a glimpse or a quick flash of something that kind of burns itself into my mind while my elaborate imagination images will disappear quickly(after ive been thinking about it for a long time) and i wont really remember it.
thats just with me though, everyones meditation and imagination habbits and experiences are different, so like i said this is a subjective thing, soon youll be able to see the difference between the two though.

[darkwalker]

er this is mabye a dum question but people keep talking bout imagining your thoughts going away but to do that you have to think and the whole point of meditating (sp?) is not to think so how does thinking about your thoughts going away help you when your not ment to be thinking?

I hope that makes sense

[mtpathy]

I am having extreme trouble doing any sort of meditation because i have too active of an imagination. I try to focus on the subject I am meditation on but my mind starts wandering and I'll seem imagery but I can never tell if it's imagery from my meditation or imagery from my imagination and just from random thoughts that are always popping in and out of my head. Okay that might have sounded confusing...let me give an example to help explain further.

I've been trying to do a meditation focusing on dragons and my brain just won't let me do it. Grr, here is what happens. I will lay down and focus on dragons as best I can. My mind will begin to wander a bit at first but I'll bring it back and again focus on dragons. Then my mind will start doing the "I wonder if I'll see anything, I wonder if I'll see this (insert random image that will then pop into my mind) or this (yet another image)". Eventually I can't tell if it's all purely my imagination or acutal meditation. Help!

Because of you being concious of the images going through your mind, and being able to sit there and watch the images ebb and flow, you have naturaly discovered what many seem to struggle finding in meditation, this is imo a very key ingredient which is simply being able to be concious of your thoughts that are in your head, sadly this is a point that never seems to be stressed in many meditation books.
The problem that your having is that your going against your nature because of the expectations you think you need to meet by reading books, or talking to others that say that you have to meditate a spacific way.
Do not attempt to focus on a single point, as that point brings expectations and with that expectation bias of how things should or shouldn't be."frustarations of not being able to acheieve a goal, when the goal should simply be being concious of your emotions and thoughts".
Instead focus on your breath and the presents of the moment, and simply be concious of your thoughts as they move, dont provoke them, withdraw from them or try to conjure spacific ones. within these images you will discover the real power of self thought manipulation, and quite naturally thought and emotion create mental form.
Learn to just sit and watch your thoughts,memorise of the past will come to the surface and sink down into nothingness, soon you will not only start realising the thoughts with new clarity but start learning how to explore what there actually sinking down into and disappering within.

[Willow Rosette]

Ok for a very very long time I had this same problem. I read somewhere here (insert credit for whoever, casue sorry I dont remember) but I read that try doing it with your eyes open. I know I went huh at that part, but it works. Focus on a cadel flame and kind of look into it. This might sound strange but I can totally do this with my computer monitor, have no idea why but I can. I had totally given up on being able to meditate and this totally worked for me.

[darkchild]

Another possibility for those of us who have trouble quieting our minds at first, walking meditation. It doesn't work for everyone, but it did help me to focus, just put one foot in front of the other, focus on each step that you take. Keep the conscious mind on a mundane task and it allows your thoughts to sort of float away. I had to begin my practice of meditation using very simple exercises and build on those until I can now meditate for 45 min. to an hour without a problem. I started out at about 5 minutes at a time...;)

[Tranquility]

As you begin to tame your mind, it's much easier to differentiate between the monkey mind and the guidance or wisdom from somewhere else. My advice would be to (right now) focus exclusively on relaxation and calming the mind. See if you can let the images float by, none taking hold of your mind, or try just focusing on your breathing. Good luck, and remember that meditation takes time, practice, and REGULAR practice :).

[Amelserru_halqu]

I wonder what Arinya will think when she sees this thread resurrected nearly three years later?

[Vigdisdotter]

1) why do you think that an active imagination is a bad thing in meditation? There are many kinds of meditation that use that imagination to it's fullest.

2) you do realize that the mastering of any ONE meditative technique takes much time and effort, yes? Don't be so hard on yourself. You aren't going to get it right the first time or even the first dozen times.

3) the line between imagination and reality is a blurry one, so don't be so quick to dismiss your mind's "wanderings." Those random thoughts may lead you where you need to go.

4) focus is a very valuable skill for more then just meditation so don't give up on that, but how you approach it's lack is going to be individual to you. I'm ADD for example so I've had to be creative in how I handle my mind. You could try making the image you are concentrating on into a 3D image, look at it from multiple angles and use all five senses (visualization).