PDA

View Full Version : A personal opinion of WWS, and why we're all fluffies



Caliburn
May 17th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Now, this site, lov eit, hate it, has been practically the most popular site on the net for neoPagans to hate. but, in reading all of the site, have you all eevr picked up on the general message? Acording to Mr. 4nongoths@???.com, we are all fluffy-bunnies.
If you've read this site before, you are pure fluff and deserve excommunication. If you've even so much as disagreed with this site then your a poser who has learned nothing.
Thats right, even the author of the site is a fluff, because he has read his own site and therefore, is a fluffy. Does my logic confuse you? it shouldn't. *whee*

Xentor
May 17th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Can you provide a link?

Brynn
May 17th, 2004, 07:59 PM
yes, I want to see this

scaerie faerie
May 18th, 2004, 12:28 PM
The site is at www.whywiccanssuck.com - but it's Ms 4nongoths, not Mr. Everyone seems to think that, for some reason... :whatgives

Caliburn
May 18th, 2004, 04:44 PM
The site is at www.whywiccanssuck.com - but it's Ms 4nongoths, not Mr. Everyone seems to think that, for some reason... :whatgives
now that I think about it..I've never seen a man who hated Wicca, atleats one that was informed...but yeah, thats the link, it's pretty interesting.

Vuthiel
May 19th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Now, this site, lov eit, hate it, has been practically the most popular site on the net for neoPagans to hate. but, in reading all of the site, have you all eevr picked up on the general message? Acording to Mr. 4nongoths@???.com, we are all fluffy-bunnies.
If you've read this site before, you are pure fluff and deserve excommunication. If you've even so much as disagreed with this site then your a poser who has learned nothing.
Thats right, even the author of the site is a fluff, because he has read his own site and therefore, is a fluffy. Does my logic confuse you? it shouldn't. *whee*

Actually, I don't think the site ever said everyone is a fluff bunny. In fact, it says right on the front page, "Real Wiccan: A dedicated seeker who actually knows something about Gardner's original Wicca, including its dark side. These are the anti-fluffbunnies -- in behavior, speech, and practice." Granted, there was a snide remark following that, but still it was said. The author of the site generally maintains that there are "real wiccans" out there, just that most of the current "wiccans" are fairly ignorant of the origins of their supposed religion.

The author of the site also states that if you're willing to learn from your mistakes (rather than to continue in blissful ignorance and act like an immature child), then you really aren't a fluff bunny.

Just thought I'd clarify. If you have other quotes from the site that would suggest otherwise, please correct me.

scaerie faerie
May 20th, 2004, 06:44 AM
[Nods at Vuthiel's statement].

There is a lot of sarcasm in that site which I think most people do unfortunately miss.

Aidron
June 7th, 2004, 06:50 AM
now that I think about it..I've never seen a man who hated Wicca, atleats one that was informed...but yeah, thats the link, it's pretty interesting.


1.) The above comment sounds very sexist.

2.) You have missed the entire point of the site. Nowhere does it say that 'everyone' is a fluffy bunny. Obviously some things that were said struck a cord with you, so I suggest you investigate what those are to see if you are guilty of anything this site professes instead of ridiculing it with inaccurate claims.

3.) The overall point applies not only to Wiccans, but people of all religions who become so fanatical and blind that they lose all common sense. I for one meet more Wiccans I cannot tolerate than Christians. It's "Harm none!" this, "Karma" that. You know, I bet the Hindus would be pretty upset to know that their concept of karma was incooperated into another religion and altered to the point that it is very far beyond religion. Many Wiccans believe there actually is an 'Old Religion' of Witchcraft. Too bad, there isn't. Witchcraft is not a religion, but a science, art, and practice of magic. Wicca is a religion and it is far from old. Many Wiccans profess prejudice in that if you do not obey the Wiccan rede or the Law of Return you are not a true Witch. That means, no harming anyone else with your magic such as casting hexes, curses, sacrifices, and so forth. Again, I hate to break it to them but there were Witches long before the invent of Wicca and many performed curses, hexes, sacrifices, and cast love spells upon another. They may have have all gone by the title of Witch, but the system of magic is what is applicable and recognizable from one group to the next. However, Wiccans seem to think that they can claim the word Witch, wipe the slate clean of any previous associations or connotations and claim that them invalid forms of Witchcraft, and hence, unethical. Funny how the Christians are always claimed of being the ones persecuting everyone. This sounds like persecution and bigotry if I ever heard it.

Calen
June 7th, 2004, 03:23 PM
I went to that site, and honestly, I agreed with some of it. Not all of it, certainly, but I agree that there are a lot of misconceptions about Wicca, and a lot of people who don't necessarily know much about it's history.

AnFoghlaiBanrion
June 7th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Golly gee... am I gonna be thwacked if I say I've loved that site for years? :yikess:

CaitrionaMorgaine
June 7th, 2004, 04:11 PM
Golly gee... am I gonna be thwacked if I say I've loved that site for years? :yikess:

I'll stand next to you in agreement.

Blessings, ~Rhiannon

Nantonos
June 7th, 2004, 04:45 PM
Now, this site, lov eit, hate it, has been practically the most popular site on the net for neoPagans to hate.

Well, there are quite a few Pagans who lover her site, too.


but, in reading all of the site, have you all eevr picked up on the general message?

Yes, but, did you? Isn't it the same message your avatar makes? :rubhead:


Acording to Mr. 4nongoths@???.com, we are all fluffy-bunnies.
If you've read this site before, you are pure fluff and deserve excommunication. If you've even so much as disagreed with this site then your a poser who has learned nothing.
Thats right, even the author of the site is a fluff, because he has read his own site and therefore, is a fluffy. Does my logic confuse you?

Yes, but hers (4's) doesn't because

a) she doesn't say exactly what you quote and
b) she makes a good point that is worth making

Kanilea
June 7th, 2004, 05:15 PM
I have to say, so what to this site. He complians so much about wiccans complaining about christians, give me a freeking break ^^. I am a fluffbunny and proud everyone has too be when they are starting off, and aas for the whole witch vs. wiccan thing I think everybody knows that. Anyway I only got to have a quick look I'll look again later.
K

Laurelei
June 7th, 2004, 05:25 PM
Hey, I wholeheartedly agree with the site, and the points it makes perfectly sums up the reasons why I will not call myself Wiccan. I am a Pagan Witch :).

Nantonos
June 7th, 2004, 05:32 PM
I have to say, so what to this site. He complians so much about wiccans complaining about christians, give me a freeking break ^^. I am a fluffbunny and proud everyone has too be when they are starting off

No, they don't. The whole being stupid thing is entirely optional, and not to be confused with the 'don't know much but learning' part. Being a newbie and being a fluffer are not the same thing.


and aas for the whole witch vs. wiccan thing I think everybody knows that.

You would be surprised how often it gets mixed up.

Aidron
June 7th, 2004, 07:07 PM
I have to say, so what to this site. He complians so much about wiccans complaining about christians, give me a freeking break ^^. I am a fluffbunny and proud everyone has too be when they are starting off, and aas for the whole witch vs. wiccan thing I think everybody knows that. Anyway I only got to have a quick look I'll look again later.
K


First off, as it has been pointed out the author is a 'she' not a 'he'.

Secondly, take a look around and open your eyes. You will find a phenomenal amount of Wiccans who base their faith on their disgust with Christianity.

The title 'fluff bunny' is not a necessity, but a choice. The term denotes stupidity, not ignorance, which are very different things. Stupidity is when you could enlighten yourself to the truth and facts, yet refuse to do so. Ignorance is when you honestly do not know better. So no, no one 'has' to be when they start off, and remaining as such is only the fault of the individual practioner.

As for the butchering of the titles Witch and Wiccan, no, not everybody does know it. Pick up a book by most Wiccan authors, take a look around on the internet, and even talk to people here. They interchange the two titles constantly. While you can indeed be a Witch and a Wiccan, Witchcraft existed long before Wicca and continues to exist in various incarnations all over the world without ever coming near the Wiccan path. There is the ideal among many Wiccans that they have reclaimed the title to be something positive and nature-based, claiming all others who practice 'hexes' and do not adhere to Wiccan standards as false. From Satanic Witches to Atheistic Witches, many Wiccans shun them, which is rather hypocritical since they are guilty of the same persecution they claim so many Christians indulge in.

I suggest before you formulate an opinion you actually read the site instead of 'taking a quick look' and passing judgment. That is very much a 'fluff bunny' (and how I loathe using this term, but for the sake of the topic I will this time) thing to do.

Karmendi
June 7th, 2004, 11:42 PM
This same argument happens EVERYWHERE and it's making my head hurt :fishsmack: can't everyone just get over it and respect everyone is going to think differently than everyone else. Sure you may not agree and you may see it as down right offensive but arguing pointessly about it won't help. *LONG sigh* sorry had to get that out because this is a repetative argument (check around the boards to figure out what I mean). Okay I feel better, now no one go and get offended on me, I'm just making a point with out taking a side.

Xentor
June 8th, 2004, 12:51 AM
Yes, we can think differently about things. But there's still something known as fact. Things consisting of facts will be called the truth. So I may think completely different from the facts, but my right to think it won't make it true. Is that wrong? No, not at all, as long as I don't interact with anybody.

Aidron
June 8th, 2004, 01:39 AM
This same argument happens EVERYWHERE and it's making my head hurt :fishsmack: can't everyone just get over it and respect everyone is going to think differently than everyone else. Sure you may not agree and you may see it as down right offensive but arguing pointessly about it won't help. *LONG sigh* sorry had to get that out because this is a repetative argument (check around the boards to figure out what I mean). Okay I feel better, now no one go and get offended on me, I'm just making a point with out taking a side.


Disagreements are one thing and of course to be expected unless you are a hermit. However, as Xentor said mentioned facts, you can disagree with the facts all you wish, and you are entitled to formulate opinions that go against factual evidence, but you should in no way be surprised when someone claims you are butchering a religious tradition (and yes, Wicca is a religious, not spiritual tradition) because you are warping it beyond what it once was. It is illogical to claim a religious title of any variety and not adhere to the teachings and practices of that religion. You can do it, and some people like me for the most part will not care since it is of no concern to me, but that does not change the fact that I recognize what is going on. I hear people all the time whining about how Christians judge them which is supposed to be against their faith, and rarely do you ever see Pagans calling others down for pointing that out. When someone refers to themself as Wiccan, however, yet really knows nothing about the religion and through practicing it has taken it to a place beyond recognition, it's considered wrong to call them on it. Sorry, not going to buy into that hypocrisy.

Ron
June 8th, 2004, 10:45 AM
I'm sorry to offend, but I really do think WWS is a well-meaning site. It does a good job of waking up teenaged cultists who just like the whole idea of "magick". :)

Nantonos
June 8th, 2004, 12:01 PM
I'm sorry to offend, but I really do think WWS is a well-meaning site. It does a good job of waking up teenaged cultists who just like the whole idea of "magick". :)

I agree.

frigga
June 8th, 2004, 01:04 PM
I'm sorry to offend, but I really do think WWS is a well-meaning site. It does a good job of waking up teenaged cultists who just like the whole idea of "magick". :)
I also agree, it seems some don't understand how many new Pagans and Wiccans are mislead by self taught, uneducated, I read about it so I am, individuals who are warping Wicca into something it isn't.

Karmendi
June 11th, 2004, 03:38 PM
I also agree, it seems some don't understand how many new Pagans and Wiccans are mislead by self taught, uneducated, I read about it so I am, individuals who are warping Wicca into something it isn't.

I agree as well but keep in mind not every teenager is a....oh how was it termed..."cultist" who like the idea of "magick" some are in for the long haul, some are not, only time can really test that out. Personally after reading through the site I find it kinda funny. Perhaps the offended people are taking it to personally? Who knows.

samiaminsane
June 11th, 2004, 03:51 PM
I don't really see a problem with the site. Yes, it's blunt and a little rude, but gets the point across.

dr_zeus440
June 14th, 2004, 07:52 AM
I've never seen a man who hated Wicca, atleats one that was informed

that's probably because the vast majority of well-informed people (let alone men) haven't heard of wicca, or don't care.


I'll stand next to you in agreement.

that makes three of us anyhow. it's a great site, if only because it has caused such reaction.


He complians so much about wiccans complaining about christians, give me a freeking break ^^. I am a fluffbunny and proud everyone has too be when they are starting off, and aas for the whole witch vs. wiccan thing I think everybody knows that.

- what you fail to understand is that, like all people, 4nongoths is speaking from her experience of the world. she experiences a strong undertone of christian bashing in her experience of wicca, so she comments on it.
- no-ones forcing you to read the site, if you want a break, then close the window.
- why does everyone have to be fluffy when they start out?
- if you don't believe that many people dont know the distinction between 'witch' and 'wiccan', then hang around the new pagans forum more often.


can't everyone just get over it and respect everyone is going to think differently than everyone else.

mystic wicks is a forum, where the ultimate aim is to discuss. a discussion is an exchange of and debate upon opinions. if we did what you suggest, MW would be silent.

Druchii
June 14th, 2004, 09:00 AM
Who cares? It's some text, on a server, somewhere, that somehow got someone 15 minutes of fame.
BUT, I found it funny. :D

MerrisHawk
June 14th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Goodie,
I'm not the only one who got a laugh out of that site. :hehehe:

charmedkisses1
June 14th, 2004, 08:47 PM
There is so much hatred in the Wiccan world! Listen to a Wiccan ranting about the injustices that the Xian laws have caused -- listen to them recite, gleefully, all of the contradictions they can find in the Bible -- listen to them blame the Xian God for all of the Holy Wars -- then step back, take a good look, and wonder why these poor Xians think you've been misled by the Devil. You're certainly not giving them any reason to think otherwise.
Almost everyone has a Devil of some sort. The KKK has non-whites to hate. The Pro-Lifers have abortionists to hate. The environmentalists have big business to hate. And the Wiccans have Xians to hate. It is human nature to pick your war, find a scapegoat, and declare with all of your might that "I am better than those people!" But... of course... the hatred is always *justified*.
I came to an important realization a long time ago -- there is no Good Stuff. There is no "where it's at." Has anyone truly seen the world from the eyes of the God(s)? Has anyone found the Secrets of the Universe yet? Has anyone outside of an acid trip really understood ALL for more than a few seconds?

Everybody is stumbling along looking for the same peace and security, and no one, not even the buddhas, seems to have found it yet. We've only found bits and pieces of it. The religions are pathways, all blind men leading other blind men down a road to who knows where. This doesn't mean that religions are a Bad Thing -- it only means that we should realize that we're all in the same boat.

Go on, keep hating the Xians if it makes you feel better. But remember... rocking the boat won't get you "there" any faster.




Am I gonna get into trouble when I say the Wiccan Page about Christianity is true??? There's alot of Hypocrisy. :::hides::: :broomride

In addition, I think the authow was just trying to keep away all the kids who think wicca is like in the movies or tv. :cutie:

Aidron
June 15th, 2004, 05:36 AM
Am I gonna get into trouble when I say the Wiccan Page about Christianity is true??? There's alot of Hypocrisy. :::hides::: :broomride

In addition, I think the authow was just trying to keep away all the kids who think wicca is like in the movies or tv. :cutie:


No, that's one of the main points of the site I feel. Wiccans and Pagans in general are forever coming down on Christians for being judgmental and hypocrites, yet it's absolute hypocrisy. Most people 'do' need something to hate, some 'devil' that they can claim they are better than to inflate their ego and give them some sort of assurance that they are the ones who are right.

It's sad, really, and stems from nothing more than insecurity and fear, fear to face your own self and really analyze if you are doing what is best for you or simply doing what you feel is the latest spiritual trend.