caring too much about people that don't "deserve" it...

[Lucidia]

I really don't know what to make of it.

Before i got married (which was recently, in May), and actually i only met my hubby in April.. I was seeing this guy...

He wasn't very nice. One of those "goths" that think they are superior to everyone. If you went to see his website, the only thing he really has on it is this picture gallery of himself. Very concieted. But that's his thing. whatever.

He was into the "polyamoury" thing. I wasn't too happy about it, but after being in a bunch of tumultously bad relationships for the last 7 years.. i said.. what the hey... why not try this...

But you see... he wasn't the type to share his feelings, or tell me if he indeed was seeing someone else.

We were very "safe" about everything we did. I believed him when he said he got tested, and I got tested and on birth control, and we weren't "safe" anymore, because I trusted him. I figured since he was so 'safe' with me before i got tested, that he certainly wouldn't be 'unsafe' with anyone he was sleeping with besides me.

to make it worse, he claims to this day he never slept with anyone else. but that comes into play later.

I start feeling bad. I needed someone who cared about me. I went to visit Kaylara and her fiance. They have a very stable, also poly, relationship. They, however, care about each other. I sort of cared about this guy.. but i refused to let myself care about him any more deeply than i did, because he never seemed to care back.

I spent all my time and resources spending time with him. I was out of a job, he was supposed to help me find one (he is a sys admin).

Every time i tried to open up to him.. it seemed like such a bad thing. he would get upset.. and misunderstand me... and we'd have some petty argument like episode.

I stopped trying to open up to him, and I finally started looking for another little fling somewhere.

I coudlnt' find anyone, and didn't want to be casual. i wanted someone who cared about me. But i didn't want to be alone, so i kept seeing the other guy.

It was eating me up inside. I felt so used.. but i was letting it happen. Again and again.

so eventually i meet my hubby and it's time to break the news to this guy. I see him online (i'm really cowardly about hurting people, even if they hurt me first). WE had a huge fight and it was "over"

Then he e-mails me a bunch of times and starts begging for another chance, saying now that he loves me, and had loved me for a while, and didn't know how to say it, and that we were committed all along.. i just never asked.

At this point, i'm already engaged to my now husband.

He keeps trying, until my husband e-mails him with a rather nasty note telling him to back off.

Then, i end up finding out i have a *thank the goddess curable* little infection.

Gee, i wonder where that came from?

I e-mailed him, and let him know he should probably get checked out.

He doesn't answer.

That was expected.

Now.. .months later.. i found myself checking his best friend's website to see if she mentioned him... to see what's going on.

Why am I curious? Why do i care?

I find out through friends that he's talking to his ex (who he did nothing but call names and complain about her stalking him through our whole involvement, said he never wanted to talk to her again, i leave and he's back with her). I get all upset over his hipocrocy.

And then i think. He'll never be happy. He's alone and well inevitably always be alone.

And i sort of feel bad.

I didn't love him. I almost did.

And i can't figure out why i still care?

Why do i feel pity for him, when it's his own fault that he'll end up alone or not happy either way.

Why do I feel bad for him, and all the other guys that hurt and abused and used me?

Why is it that I care at all, when they don't deserve it?

Why am i so nice.. when i feel such burning anger and bitterness towards them.

In the same breath, i'd curse them to the deepest depths of burning infernos in eternal torture, and wish them the best and hope they find happiness......

[Danustouch]

Wow......

I'd like to compare notes. I've known a couple of guys like that in my life..and amazingly..one of them was Goth too. I kept wondering if maybe we knew the same guy?

[Lucidia]

well this guy's name was spencer, NYC local, tall thin long red hair, he's about 22 i think...

i dunno, i doubt it was the same person, but if it was, then i'm sure you understand what i am talking about in description of his personality.

[stormyray]

I have learned the feeling you are having though scary is complete normal. It seems (in my case any ways) that even if they turned your life upside down. they were in you life and in some way in your heart. You said you almost loved him so you must have let him in a bit. We all hope for the best for anyone that makes an inpact on our hearts. Plus it sounds as if you have a good heart and have compasion for all.

[Semele]

As I have said to many people with the same questions...why ask why? Tis better to love someone than to hate. Because when we hate someone it consumes us and takes a whole lot of energy that we could use in more productive ways. I say be glad that you are being a mature adult about it and hope he will someday grow spiritually into a more loving person. Sounds like he needs to learn to love himself. You are a good person and you have every right to be proud that this didn't break your spirit!

[Dellit Tandannon]

<BIG BIG BIG HUGS FOR LUCIDIA>

i love you hon :)

[Yvonne Belisle]

It's a shame my ex doesn't swing both ways they would make a great couple sounds like the same personallity. Smile he's not worth your frown.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
But I have asked myself many times about a relationship with someone who was not only emotionally unavailable, but most likely an alcoholic...( the song goes ...... he said he "didnt drink" but every , YES EVERY night, he went to the pub, or stopped at the liquor store)
and why I felt any degree of loyalty at all when he obviously had none ,,, enjoys pitting people against each other ...... is married .... still to this day cruising the internet for his soul mate....LOL and has a "twin soul " they are both marrried I guess that is how it works ? on the internet beside all this ....But he isnt into polyamory NO NO LOL I dont think you need to be goth to have an inflated ego....
Took absolute proof of betrayal at the soul level for me to "BLOW" and finally distance myself from him, and even then he wasnt helping.
I had to anger him to get HIM to distance,
called him a (close your ears) SCUM BUCKET omygosh LOL and then omgoddess I was "harassing him " .
Got a NASTY letter from one of his friends husband ;under a false name of course..pretending to be some professor friend of his .... suggesting I was showing signs of Schizophrenia .... for expressing honest anger( how come that never shows up in HER version of the story) so he ran right to his friends and told them I was "picking on him ", what an admirable person .... NOT!
still I pity him.... and I should really have more animosity because after ALL was said and done .. he then totally backpedals and says I USED SEX MAGIC ON HIM, to seduce him.... I should despise him.......
what a mess of emotional baggage and guilt and denial ,........
But I think once you have been in someone's heart, and taken them into yours, there is always something there that is untouchable.
Once long ago someone said something to me , that really has stayed.
They said love isnt based on deserving..... that you dont love someone whether or not they deserve it ....it is the imPULSE ... the pulse of love from our own hearts that sends love out
Love and light
Swannie
the art by Josephine Wall

[loopy]

*hugs* for Lucidia.

:):):):):)

You care because you're a caring person. Just because someone's out of your life doesn't mean they're out of your head, or your heart.

It's a really amazing quality to have, to be able to care so much. :):):)

[Danustouch]

Nope...Not the same guy. This guys name was Kraig. And he now lives out west. LOL. Maybe they share the same brain cell though?

[slvr_phoenix]

**shrug**

I'm going to go out on a limb and say some things here that might very well get me hated by everyone. So if anyone plans on liking me, I suggest you avert your eyes. **L**

Life is a struggle of energies. And boy do we ever like having those energies. Sometimes it doesn't even matter if they're "good" or "bad" energies, just so long as it's something. It's why kids act out. Maybe their parents are yelling and hitting them for being a brat, but they're still getting that energy from their parents. And to some people, that's all that really matters in the end.

And sometimes, our twisted little freakish minds that are capable of "reasoning" anything bad into something good with enough effort, will come to "love" taking in other people's energies. We think it's love that we're feeling, but in actuality, it's just the thrill of the harvest. And so we come to think that we "love" the people that have hurt us and continue to hurt us because as long as they keep hurting us we keep getting these energies from them.

Bullies aren't the only ones that can force energies out of people. Victims are just as good at getting them. Sometimes, they're even better because not only do they get the pain from the person that they "love", but they also get the sympathy from everyone else. Where as bullies don't get sympathy.

What we need to learn to do is simply let go. Let go. That's it. We have to stop playing the game. We have to cut the emotional ties. And when we can do that, then we can actually look at the situation from a clear perspective. We can see that we don't REALLY love THEM, we just loved the attention and the energy that they gave to us. And then we can realise that love isn't really the sick thing that we thought it was and we can start the journey to understand what real love is.

We have to stop being the victim. We have to stop looking for relationships that put us into the same position. And we have to stop taking these energies. Because if you can't grow up and get over it, or at least make a real effort to, then you're really no better than the person who hurt you.

And if anyone thinks that I'm in no position to understand, then they don't really know me. As someone who has been the "victim" repeatedly, I know the game. And I know that the cycle can be broken if you really try. Because only when we break that cycle of being the victim does our world open up again.

[Kaylara]

I agree with you to a point...

I think that taking of energy is unavoidable... It's whether or not you share energies equally in a relationship... It's the transference of those energies between each other, and how your individual energies interact.

Just my opinion

Kaylara

[Mariposa De La Luna]

IMHO,I think there is an energy play here but it takes two, I don't think it is only one person's problem. The best thing to do is to let go and if you find yourself thinking of this person make yourself stop. Then, at least, you've done your part.

Look up polyamoury in a search engine, its not about what he thought it is. Its not an open relationship. If you don't have complete openness and communication, its not going to work, of couse that can be said for most relationships.

You are a sweet and loving person, i know because my husband is like that too. He hates to hurt people but on the same hand he left himself open to be used by others. Its not something that is easy to stop doing but it is possible.

May the Gods bless and protect you.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
Just that I was talking about something that has taken place in the past... and having moved on I look back and share what happened to me . I am sharing my own personal experience here .. and offering support.. not trying to tell anyone what to do. We each learn from our own experiences.
Your premise that "life is a struggle of energies" is not something I agree with .... but if that is your percption then that is how you see it, but it is not the paradigm I see. A lot of what you said could be clarified greatly by reading about the attributes of co-dependency, just a suggestion....for reading ..
Yes, you are right, some people people play the victim incredibly well, garner sympathy and point fingers of blame, all the while engaging in manipulating, and consciously making the decision to do that and that can even be pathological in nature, its common in adolescent psyche , where kids have not a chance to get clear on their boundaries ,, I could give examples.....
As an example ... I have had the experience of having someone say directly to me ; "I think we (meaning she and her online lover) used his girlfriend ( in real life) to play out OUR drama" so I have learned that people go so far as to think they can take on some elses persona ; some people call that spiritual vampirism. I know that it was thoroughly and completely repugnant for me to even to be aware of that energy , and this person sees themself as the victim. When confronted with this statement .... this person then immediately turned the blame on someone else and said they "twisted her mind in online chat and MADE them say those things "
Now this is a perfect example of what you are saying ... an extreme inablity to take responsiblity for their own words and actions and immediately taking the victim stance. I have seen this many times in psychiatric nursing. The abuser sees themself as a victim. This same person was FORBIDDEN by a mother to contact a minor child because of how abusive they became to that child on the internet, and STILL sees and presents themself as the victim .
So I see where what you are saying applies "sort of" :>, but it really has a preachy feel to it , which isnt very helpful.... and a bit off putting .....
What I read here was an honest sharing of experiences.
....
Love and Light
Swannie

[Mooncrow]

I feel true empathy for you in this, I have a former friend (though not lover) who was probably the closest friend I ever had, it wasn't til three years ago that I realized he was an energy vampire of sorts, and a mooch as well. I think of him quite often, but I won't let myself be tangled in his web again. I even gave him a position in the business I own, then one day he DEMANDED to be made a partner, not based on the work he'd done but playing on our friendship. I haven't seen nor heard form him since, but the almanac says that in Oct I will be reunited with an old aquaintance and warns not to become involved in a bad relationship again.

Without trust there cannot be love, without love there cannot be trust.

To the US Govt "If we trust in God, then act like it, if not, take him off the money"

BB

Mooncrow

[slvr_phoenix]

Kaylara, the taking of energies shouldn't be unavoidable.

I'll try to avoid using the word "taken" because I just realised how many different contexts and connotations a single word can have. Heh heh. :)

A person should be fully capable of raising energies on their own. A person shouldn't need to coerce, manipulate, trick, tease, force, scare, etc., energies out of someone. There are plenty enough energies around in ourselves and the world around us that we shouldn't need another person to be happy, content, etc.

So in a perfect relationship, energies are freely given and shared. In fact, in a perfect relationship, those energies can even not be given or recieved and the relationship can still go well. It is part of the joy of a perfect relationship to share your energies with each other, but it isn't integral to the relationship's survival. For example, if I had to suddenly leave for a week and couldn't take my wife with me, while I'm gone from her we should both still be happy and still love one another, even though there is no exchange or sharing of energies.

A healthy person can be completely fullfilled without the need of someone else in their life. They have friends not because they couldn't stand to be without friends, but simply because they want friends. They aren't afraid to do new things or do what they want to do. And when they love, it's freely and without expectation or demand.

I'm not saying that we're all perfect like this. I doubt many people could even claim such. :) But I am saying that this is what we should try to achive because it makes us happy and strong, but still quite capable of love.

[slvr_phoenix]

Swanspirit, you have an interesting view on things. I agree with you that a good bout of research into co-dependancy will indeed more fully explain everything that I have talked about. It is something that helped me years ago, for it forced me to see myself as I really was and not as the victim I thought I was. Is it not funny that humans have been doing this to one another for countless ages and yet still we fall into the very same traps, even when we should know better? :) Yet more proof that humanity is far from perfect, which is what makes us so interesting.

Though some people define of co-dependancy a bit too glibly. There is a considerable difference between dependancy and individuals sharing things in a healthy relationship. Some material on the subject however doesn't seem to take that into consideration. So anyone wanting to research it should keep that in mind and take it all with a grain of salt, the same as you should take anything I, or anyone says. :) For again, none of us are perfect.

In Lucidia's case, she repeatedly mentions how she knows that she shouldn't care about him anymore, but still does, and makes other similar statements that show up like red flags.

Maybe what I said was a little preachy, but I believe in bluntness. Too many times people conveniently ignore things that are sugar-coated. Bluntness is hard to ignore. It doesn't mean that I don't care, it means that I care enough to be brutally honest.

Lucidia, that doesn't mean that I don't feel for you. I do sincerely hope that you can find strength in yourself and grow as a person to a point where you no longer feel a need for anyone but yourself. Once you achive that, I can promise that your relationships with friends, significant others, and even peole you dislike will be a lot more to your liking. It's not an easy thing to achive, but to me it was well worth the effort, and I hope it will be to you also. You sound like a very nice person. I only wish you the best.

But Swanspirit, I found your judgement slightly concerning. There are real victims in the world. The difference between being a victim and playing a victim is if you put yourself into the same situations repeatedly, or if those situations find you. If you are taking energies from it and being strengthened by them, or if those energies are being forced upon you and wearing you down.

In the example you mention, what if someone DID twist her mind and connive those words out of her? It certainly is something that can be done. And if it were, then she is not playing the victim, but is actually a victim and needs help, not condemnation.

And either way, whether victim or abuser, as human beings we should be trying to help them overcome the problem, for every time someone is an abuser, at the source of their problems is that they themself were abused. Do you see me condemning Lucidia? No. And I never would. Because she has obviously suffered herself and even if it sounds like she has intentionally played the role of a victim, she is still hurting inside and needs love and support. Sometimes tough love is needed, but it is still love. And I truely hope that she can overcome her problems.

Where as in your case, Swanspirit, it sounds like you have just met pain with more pain. But two wrongs don't make a right; they just add to the suffering. Maybe instead of being disgusted over it, you should have tried to be more understanding, for we are all hurting inside over something or another. Maybe it would help you to remember that in the future, for the more help and love we give out, the less pain the world has to endure.

Swanspirit, you said, "I have seen this many times in psychiatric nursing". So surely you must understand the importance of kindness, no matter which side of things you were on?

And SAHM, you have exactly the right idea. :) Thank you for putting kindly what I said bluntly.

[Kaylara]

Let me explain my view on energy... It is my feeling (after years of working with energy) that any interaction that we have with each other transfers energy between the people/things involved. I think that if you give your attention to someone, you are giving them energy, and (hopefully) vice versa. I think that you can become "addicted" to a certain kind of energy, or used to a certain persons energy. This is why we feel like we left a piece of ourselves with them... Because by the simple act of thinking of that person, or beating yourself up over what happened, you are still sending energy to that person.

These are my views, based on my experience...

Kaylara

[slvr_phoenix]

I agree with that entirely Kaylara. Even just thinking about someone is sending them energy. Even thinking nasty thoughts about someone is still feeding them energy. Heh heh. Which is why it's best to just forgive and forget, the emphasis on forget. :)

I'd just add that two healthy individuals in a posative relationship can at times not be sending each other energy and still be happy. For example, I could be reading a book and thinking of only that, not of my wife. And my wife could be working on some online project and thinking only of that, not of me. A healthy relationship should see periods like this of individualism where we aren't always doting or thinking about our significant other.

I think the key is to be individuals and yet still be in a loving relationship. :) That way when something bad happens to one, the other can lift them up instead of being drug down with them.

[Kaylara]

Yep yep! I agree completely...

Kaylara

[Mariposa De La Luna]

So do I :D

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
If you choose to believe that someone can "make somene say something" then that is your perogative, and good luck to you on that , because one of the earliest things I have learned in my life is that no one puts words in anyone elses mouth, and that we are all responsible for what we say and do . It is called taking responsiblity for your own actions, and accusing someone else of making you say or do anything is not taking responsiblity , no matter how you shakE it :>.
Goddess knows how many hours I have spent with
clients young and old getting them to understand that concept.
No one makes you SAY DO HIT STEAL What ever,,, you always have a choice and what comes out of your mouth and your actions are yours..... no one elses .
I have to say .... that I was a participant in that conversation.... and NO ONE made her say a word , those words flowed from her mouth with ease, and pride. The problem was .... I was in my old yahoo ID Of Nimue11 and she thought she was talking to a stranger and not someone she knew, so she bragged and bragged.... and bragged some more ( And I just let her go on ) an ONLY when she realised much later ..... I was someone who knew her she SUDDENLY said Ohh she twisted my mind and made me say those things and "how many friends have I lost?" I dont even think in those terms , and yes I did feel very sorry for her and did try to help her , because goddess knows she needed it .All she did was turn on me and make me out to be the liar .....and still does, but that is my personal history , and I realise you werent there and couldnt be privy to the actual incident:>
But that is how that victim mentality works, and its easy to get sucked in, we all do from time to time and I try to balance compassion with not enabling that mentality.
There is a compassion in in the heart that responds to true innocence , and supportive of
acquaintances and friends and family, and I still trust people ..... until they themselves prove otherwise. That is the health and
joy of living that I have found. And since I have moved ON from this co-dependent victim vampire mess, my energy has soared, and my creative work is filled with spirit, and I am serene and blissful, and very able to exchange loving energy with people and someone special , too :>, and they need not be present for energy exchange LOL.
And one other little thing I have noticed has ocurred..... whenever I defend myself from this onslaught of lies ..... something extraordinarily good happens , like I get a job offer to write an astrology column on a regular basis , or something else wonderful,
so I think that is an interesting phenomenon indeed.
Love and Light
Swannie

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Let me explain my view on energy... It is my feeling (after years of working with energy) that any interaction that we have with each other transfers energy between the people/things involved. I think that if you give your attention to someone, you are giving them energy, and (hopefully) vice versa. I think that you can become "addicted" to a certain kind of energy, or used to a certain persons energy. This is why we feel like we left a piece of ourselves with them... Because by the simple act of thinking of that person, or beating yourself up over what happened, you are still sending energy to that person.

These are my views, based on my experience...

Kaylara

Even though I don't show it, Ariel always knows when something
is bothering me....it is the energy I send and also my thoughts.

[slvr_phoenix]

Swanspirit, I am glad to see that you think everyone is responsible for what they do or say. I wish more people in this world would have the guts to be responsible for their own actions. It's an admirable trait.

However, it isn't the end-all truth that everyone is responsible for each and every action that they do and word that they say. Possession for one, is such a case where a person could not be held responsible. Hypnonsis is another such case, as are other forms of mind-control and brainwashing. In such cases people can do things that aren't of their own free will or desire, and blaming them for actions that they do under circumstances like that can cause them a deep pain.

I'm not saying that this is necesarily the case here, merely that there are instances where people are not necesarily responsible for what they do. People and spirits can put words in other people's mouths with a little skill and effort.

For the most part though, we are responsible for our own actions. Maybe that's where the the point defines itself, "for our own actions". What do you think?

And forgive me if this sounds judgemental, because it isn't, but I am curious about something and you sound as though you wish to talk about it. You said that you were using an old account, and because of that this woman didn't recognize you. Surely at some time you must have realised she didn't recognize you though. I mean people don't generally just open up about things like that to total strangers to my knowledge without at least introducing themselves first. So why didn't you say who you were sooner to her and try to help her then, instead of letting her figure it out for herself who you were?

If it's too personal or anything, you don't have to answer. It just sounds like some key element is missing to the story that is making it rather difficult to understand. I mean if I didn't know any better I would think that you had been doing it on purpose to hurt her, but surely that thought must be wrong if it was, "thoroughly and completely repugnant for me to even to be aware of that energy". So I know I must just be confused on what happened. Forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds trying to understand your story, but I dislike being confused because it makes me feel like there's something that I don't know. :)

You just seemed to be happy to talk about it. (At least that's what I figure you're smiling so much for with your :> s.) And I'd feel bad thinking things like that without really knowing the whole story.

It just sounds like it's a perfect example of playing roles to control the flows of energies. :) I bet soap opera writers would kill to know what is in your head.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
People and spirits can put words in other people's mouths with a little skill and effort.
If you believe that then there is nothing I can tell you , except that you completely gloss over the part where the other party thinks she can glom onto an entire person for her own use ?? and free will goes out the window ?


And forgive me if this sounds judgemental, because it isn't.
Sounds very judgemental to me.... and I told her I was seeking her friendship at the time and that I had hoped to give her a chance to know me .... I was totally shocked that she opened up like that .....and sickened ... I dont apologise for my feelings here .. she admitted to manipulation, lying, and demonstrated how she did it to the poor soul she was deceiving SENT ME AN EXAMPLE .... made me think twice about telling her who I was, which I eventually did anyway because I couldnt bear to be as ongoingly deceitful as she is .
I had attemtpted friendship and healing with this person prior to this , and was STILL willing to try; so please dont ascribe motives to me I dont have ,,you are not in my head or my heart .
You will never know the whole story.. because you would have to be me to do that , and I dont expect you to believe anything that is outside your realm of possibiliies,let me just say ,, I can go to my deathbed knowing the truth and knowing I AM NOT tellng the HUGE LIE that she has concocted. She has let her friends defend her KNOWING this is a lie......
:) I bet soap opera writers would kill to know what is in your head. [/B][/QUOTE]
I consider that statement to be offensive ., The culmination of this entire thing is that I know someone that knows this person in real life.. and their observation about her was made prior to ever knowing ME.... is that she was an uglyspirited person and that it showed thru her demeanor, and her manners were coarse, and her eyes glittered in NOT a good way , so the goddess sent me the validation I needed.
I dont need to convince anyone of anything, because this knowledge has been sent my way :>
Oh and by the way ..... an old friend JUST this past hour contacted me and offered to let me put a gallery of my art on their beautiful new pagan web site so you see how this works??? and as for me .. I am MOVING ON ....
Love and light
Swannie

[Semele]

MODERATOR MODE


and as for me .. I am MOVING ON ....
Love and light
Swannie

Sounds like a good idea, as I am a little concerned that this topic went from offering love and support to Lucidia to something else all together.

I am not entirely sure what the whole story is behind your painful posts but perhaps it deserves another thread itself to avoid turning this thread away from Lucidia's request for advice and help.

[ladyrowan]

Lucidia, I can't give you any short answers as to why we still care about people like that. But I've been in that position too and all i can say is that one day you WON'T care any more, and later still, you won't even think about him.
It's still very new and just like other bad things in life it'll take time to get over. But you will get over it and you'll look back and wonder what the hell you ever saw in him.

This is for anyone going through a bad relationship at the moment:
Four little words i read once seem so simplistic, but they're so true - "Real Love Doesn't Hurt" If someone is hurting you it's not love. My advice would be to get out of that relationship and find someone who deserves you. Life's too short.

BB

[gunner]

i would agree semele

"Sounds like a good idea, as I am a little concerned that this topic went from offering love and support to Lucidia to something else all together.

I am not entirely sure what the whole story is behind your painful posts but perhaps it deserves another thread itself to avoid turning this thread away from Lucidia's request for advice and help."

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry......


And if it is any comfort to Lucidia ...
she can certainly see that she is not alone in getting "entangled", and I can empathise ......
it would seem that she has moved on as well.
HERE is to MOVING ON,,,,, A friend of mine who is incredibly empathetic just wrote me a poem and said I can publish it here with a link to her page :>
and she says ......

"it's written for all of us who have experienced that...it's my story as much as yours.. it's a universal thing"
........




this is not beautiful anymore.
it doesn't inspire, doesn't even ache
and there is nothing of poetry left in it
except this last one that marks
the tired ebbing away of a shore battered little boat
from a thorn entangled, fruitless place

this is the moment that memory ceases
to dress your land in roses and honey

my eyes are on other boats in the water
as your dark shore recedes from mind
and where i once cried and wished for
silk to catch your eyes, i find myself
satisfied with my coarse weave of white linen
simple sails billowing full of questions that move me
to what new shores? to what fruit? to what sweet?

disinterested, finally, in searching for beauty where
there was none, i am unmoved in this last accounting

of all it was not
--------------------------------------------------

copyright F.Stuart, 2001. All rights reserved.
COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL

http://www.paganvillages.com/Magick/voice/


Love and Light
Swannie

[feywytch]

I think...well I know caring too much is bad in ways those of us who have goen thru it know....but to care so greatly means one has a huge capacity for love. And that is never bad.

And I think even when the love is not returned we learn from it. When something lodges itself within us and we care so much it does no tjust stop. We may not ever want to get back to the place we were but we will always care to some degree.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
I think it does show a great capacity for love as well :> .......
My ex-husband , I was only married for a short time, very young , and had my children, but he was very abusive so I left.... well he re-married and has been for 26 years, with more abuse and alcoholism in that marriage. Now my daughter tells me they are divorcing, and I take no pleasure in that knowledge......It makes me sad..... because even people who dont deserve love.....
I have no love left for him in the wife sense, but I am sorry he never got sober, and I am sorry they are splitting up , because I thought they had SOME happiness in that marriage......
and here is a thought......does the way people receive love really have anything to do with the way we give it?
Love and Light
Swannie

[Lucidia]

hmm.. .yes it seems that i have started some strange debate.

the whole focus was: sometimes we feel concern for people that don't care about us. and sometimes that feeling is confusing and it hurts, knowing that it's almost a wasted effort.

i thank you for your kind words. i realy didn't need an analysis of what i wrote, or advice on how to deal with it. eventually, the people in my past whom i no longer speak or associate with will fade into only ocassional thought, and the memories, both good and bad will fade.

i am well aware that everyone should be content with themselves, and not feel the "need" for anyone else.

i never said i "needed" anyone else.

anyway, thanks again for your responses, i appreciate all of your ideas and stories and feelings on the matter.

[bloodstone20]

It was my ex-girlfriend. She said she loved me, wanted to have sex. We did alot of stuff together, things theat i regret mostly becuase they led me off course in my life. I taught her the Craft, I let her borrow my books, I let her kiss me, hug me, and do t things I won't mention becuase kids younger and older then me read this. Then it happened. She asked, and I told her i didn't want to have sex. She instantly retaliated, telling my parents i was a witch, almost getting me disowned, spreading rumers about me, but most of all, she warlocked. She broke her oaths to help the earth and honor the god and goddess. She told the wholeschool that i worship the Goddess, which is not nescerily true, but in a way it is, and i got rejected. They called me fag, queer, and wrote witch on my locker. I wrote Proud above it and got in trouble. But then, light. I did a return negativity ritual with Maat, that I could feel work. She lost her job, moved away, and my reputation soured. Suddenly, I was that anti-social kid thgat wore the shirt that said"Merry Part" underlined three times, that became the latest trend. I was that cool kid everyone invited to there parties, that just sat around when he got there, and almost never danced because the music sucked. For the first time tho. I was happy. Such and elusive thing it is.

[Semele]

Bloodstone,
Good for you for standing up for what you believe and want out of life. There is no shame in not wanting to participate in sexual intercourse before you are ready. Hats off to you!! Also writing proud above witch was a great idea!!! You go Buddy!!!!

[slvr_phoenix]

Well...

I never saw anything that went off topic. I saw a typical example of everything I've explained, and thought it appropriate to say my piece on it. If that isn't the point of a forum, then I don't know what is. As the old saying goes, "You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime." I took the latter path instead of just handing out a fish. Some people show compassion by being all huggy. Others show compassion by trying to offer help.

The conversation with Swanspirit was meant to support this by giving another example of the same thing, since that's what it sounded like Swanspirit was talking about. I felt that another example of a similar nature would help explain my thoughts.

I'm still not sure how complimenting Swanspirit that it sounds like she's witnessed a story ten times as interesting as a soap opera can be taken offensively, but so be it. If people want to interpret what I say in ways it was never written, then they deserve all of the hostility that they projected into my words that I never put there.

Swanspirit, I'm glad that you SAY you are moving on, but I'm not sure what you have to move on about, and nor does it sound like you actually are to have gotten so hostile suddenly over nothing. I can't help it if you tell a self-contradicting story and then expect me not to be confused. You have your side of the story and no, I'll never know it because obviously you're only willing to talk about it up until the point that you don't sound so perfect anymore. So I'll never know what you won't share. But I find it interesting that you seem to think that your side of the story is the absolute and-all, and that no one could be entitled to their side of it. Such closed-mindedness often leads down a dark road.

Swanspirit, I leave you with this thought: If you truely deep-down felt that your side of the story is right and you are without blemish, then why do you have to keep justifying it by pointing out all of the good things that have happened since? You're the only one who cares. And further I find it interesting that you don't consider the simple possability that your artwork is finding it's way into people's lives because you have talent. Instead you use it as justification for something that should be completely unrelated. Maybe you should meditate on that and come up with the truth of just why this justification of things is so important to you.

Lucidia, please forgive me if I generalized too much. I was mostly saying these things not for your benefit, but for anyone who needed it that came to this post based on it's title, and in the process I generalized things to that whole audiance, not tailored it specifically to you.

Lucidia, I do hope that you feel better and can stop worrying about someone who obviously isn't really worth your time. As I hope that your current relationship works out well, that you're happy, and you never have to be a victim again.

And bloodstone20, you handled yourself quite well. I wish more people were like you.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,
That this thread be closed, as I dont wish to respond to this targeting .
Love and light
Swannie

[mol]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
Well...

I never saw anything that went off topic. I saw a typical example of everything I've explained, and thought it appropriate to say my piece on it. If that isn't the point of a forum, then I don't know what is. As the old saying goes, "You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime." I took the latter path instead of just handing out a fish. Some people show compassion by being all huggy. Others show compassion by trying to offer help.

SITE GOD MODE

Read rule #5 in our Community rules about responding to moderators after a moderation.

Read rule #4 in our Community rules about staying on-topic.

Strike Two.

Stay on-topic. Obviously it was off-topic, because the thread starter (Lucidia) has no idea what is going on here and what is being discussed.

[mol]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
Merry Merry,
That this thread be closed, as I dont wish to respond to this targeting .
Love and light
Swannie

SITE GOD MODE

The thread will not be closed.

Read rule #4 in the Community rules about staying on-topic. This topic has only had two strikes so far.

This sounds like a personal issue between two members. Take it off the board.

[Swanspirit]

for the moderator input :>
Merry Merry
AS you said in your post Lucidia........sometimes we care when we have no idea why, and to get to the HEART of the matter ......really love has never needed a reason... silly pop songs have been sung to that effect........ and I think it is part of a healthy caring nature to love freely.......
The Natural Being is a loving being, and not caring almost has to be taught .......
Health is the natural state of being , actually , I mean if a tree grows twisted, and not straight , it is because something happened , in either its genetic make-up or environment to prevent it from growing up straight and strong.
So the natural heart simply LOVES....
like the open affection of a child or a kitten.
So I would question the ones who DONT love , or dont know how :> , as to what happened to them , to take the compassionate view .
Love and LOVE
Swannie