He/She Busdriver.....

[Sowelu]

Greetings!
My childrens bus driver used to be Alan...but is now Allison. I have no problems with it. (is a man and dresses as a woman...not sure if he's actually gone all the way through with the change over))
However, my husband and many others DO have a problem with it.
I have only met her a couple of times and we've exchanged a few notes here and there. He is a very nice person and, I know, would never harm a child. She always goes out of her way to pick up my kids from the bus stop and drop them off...meaning...instead of stopping in the middle of the street, she pulls alongside our driveway (which is big) and drops them off out of harms way. If I had to choose between her and the other busdrivers for transporting my kids to and from school, I'd rather have her do it.
Now, she does get teased from the highschool kids and such, but also she's had to put up with complaints from other "fathers" (false complaints) about her, people who are just uncomfortable with having their children around her. I think they feel she presents a "negative" role model for children.?.?.? as a busdriver.?.?.? But, like I said before from talking with her and such, I can truely feel safe with my children on her bus. It's a shame people can be so dam judgemental towards a person without knowing them. A "judge-a book-by-it's-cover" type of thing.
How would you feel/react?

[MsFireHaven]

I have a very, very close family member who is a he, but was a she...They are people too, and just because they choose to change their appearance or gender, they are no diffrent from others who dye their hair, have fake implants, or generally hide who they are underneath from the outside world. Just my thoughts on it...

[Fairywolf]

I have no problems with it. I think it takes all kinds to make the world go round.

[Arinya]

I see nothing wrong with it. Judge the person, not the appearance. A straight male or a straight female is just as likely to molest children or appear as a bad role model as someone is transgendered or in the process of changing sexes.

[banondraig]

i can see how some parents would be uncomfortable with having to explain why the nice bus driver man is now a nice bus driver lady whose presence seems to upset everyone. i'm not sure how i would handle that one myself if i had kids. i think a lot of the things kids get upset about are due to parents and other adults freaking out near them, though. :)

[Sowelu]

I should add that my husband does not have as huge of a problem with it as other's do. Not to the point of pulling the kids off the bus or anything because he knows I wouldn't have it. We know one father who drives all the way into town (12 miles there and 12 back) to drop off and pick up his little one every day. His choice. :geez:

[Nighthawk]

You said ie..they are nice to your children.. and he/she is nice to you.. and if nothing is amiss with the children.... who cares? I think it is fine....

[Tzhebee]

I can understand how some parents would be concerned with it. Especially the parents of the younger bus riders. Kids come up with some great questions, and as parents we need to answer them as truthfully as possible. So when kids ask their parents about the bus driver, the parents probably get upset because they don't know how to answer or are not prepared for a child of whatever age to ask questions like that.

Having that said....I see no problem with it personally, in fact, I think it's great that so many kids can be "exposed" to a different life style. :D

[FlyingBear]

I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. She can still do her job and she's looking out for the kids. I would also explain to my kids about the change if they asked. It's true tho, children often get warped ideas from their parents who can't cope with change due to their own hang ups. And then parents wonder where kids " went wrong." :eyez:

[Sowelu]

i can see how some parents would be uncomfortable with having to explain why the nice bus driver man is now a nice bus driver lady whose presence seems to upset everyone. i'm not sure how i would handle that one myself if i had kids. i think a lot of the things kids get upset about are due to parents and other adults freaking out near them, though. :)
OHH wait...I screwed up on that part! He's always dressed as a woman, but is known to be a man to everyone else. He doesn't wear makeup, just womens clothing, his own long hair etc,.,....
Sorry bout' that.

[Shanti]

I hope since it sounds like he/she is a good responsible driver, that he/she doesnt loose her/his job because it the choices. I hate when I hear that...looses job and you know its more than a job lost, its respect from people and it feeds discrimination.

I hope for the best..everyone can be tolerant in this situation. :)

[Sowelu]

I hope since it sounds like he/she is a good responsible driver, that he/she doesnt loose her/his job because it the choices. I hate when I hear that...looses job and you know its more than a job lost, its respect from people and it feeds discrimination.

I hope for the best..everyone can be tolerant in this situation. :)
yep!

[Old Witch]

If the driver is a good person, what should it matter if he is......whatever.......The ones worried should try to understand. But I guess I can also understand their concerns....but
i think they're wrong....

[Psyche Ague]

Knowing me, I would probably try and become friends with her.

That said, people who realize that their gender is not correct biologically are not "messed up" people. Of course, some are, but biological males are more likely than any other gender to molest small children. But do you usually have a problem with male bus drivers? No.

I have a feeling that it's just a matter of people not understanding a situation and because they don't understand, they fear. It's a normal reaction meant to keep us safe from potentially dangerous situations. Unfortunately, harmless people come under fire. We as Pagans should understand this just as well as any other minority group.

Perhaps she could come by and explain to the parents why she did what she did and who she really is as a person. That may set some souls at ease.

[Phoenix Blue]

If others have a problem with Allison, it's their problem. Not hers.

[Emerald Oak]

I think this experience would do more good than harm for the children... Exposing them to some of the oddities of the world early on is a great way to raise them to be open minded people.

[Illuminatus]

I'm sure s/he is a great and wonderful person who would never harm anyone.

Having that said, those words are spoken about quite a few people, and you see them in the newspaper all the time. Usually about someone who did something very bad to harm a lot of people. "I knew so and so all this time, he was so nice he couldn't have possibly done this." Ancedotal character witnesses are nice and all, but they really don't have any actual bearing on the issue at hand.

The problem with Allison is that s/he may have something called "Gender Identity Disorder". Here's a bit about it from webmd.com.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/67145.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Yes, it is a psychological illness. It should be obvious to anyone who walks by, but in this day and age you really can't take anything for granted. This person is sick. Instead of treating his psychological urgings as a serious disorder, surgeons discovered somewhere along the line that they could make a LOT more money assisting them in transforming into another gender by way of expensive therapy sessions, drugs and surgeries. Granted, this usually makes their patient/customer happy, but who's to say that they could not have been made happy by coming to terms with their own existance without a physical, biochemical and social overhaul?

That is why some people may have a problem with her. Not because s/he is a bit bizarre and unsettling, but rather because he obviously has this mental illness, and that raises a lot of questions that need answering. Webmd states that this disorder usually starts pre-adolescence. Is Alison going to make her charges more prone to GID? Perhaps the most troubling aspect of this disorder is the other mental issues it may or may not coincide with. Many of the symptoms of GID co-incide with bipolar disorder.

And I know that ancedotal evidence really shouldn't matter, but every transexual I've known in real life and online has been completely batshit insane. The one who takes the cake was a math professor I had one summer. Then again, ALL math professors have reputations for being a little nutty, so perhaps there were multiple factors at play here, that would call for a larger sample size to be examined before solid conclusions could be drawn. I leave that as an excercise for the reader.

I would probably drive my kid to school.

- Illuminatus

[morrigen]

I'm sure s/he is a great and wonderful person who would never harm anyone.

Having that said, those words are spoken about quite a few people, and you see them in the newspaper all the time. Usually about someone who did something very bad to harm a lot of people. "I knew so and so all this time, he was so nice he couldn't have possibly done this." Ancedotal character witnesses are nice and all, but they really don't have any actual bearing on the issue at hand.

The problem with Allison is that s/he may have something called "Gender Identity Disorder". Here's a bit about it from webmd.com.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/60/67145.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Yes, it is a psychological illness. It should be obvious to anyone who walks by, but in this day and age you really can't take anything for granted. This person is sick. Instead of treating his psychological urgings as a serious disorder, surgeons discovered somewhere along the line that they could make a LOT more money assisting them in transforming into another gender by way of expensive therapy sessions, drugs and surgeries. Granted, this usually makes their patient/customer happy, but who's to say that they could not have been made happy by coming to terms with their own existance without a physical, biochemical and social overhaul?

That is why some people may have a problem with her. Not because s/he is a bit bizarre and unsettling, but rather because he obviously has this mental illness, and that raises a lot of questions that need answering. Webmd states that this disorder usually starts pre-adolescence. Is Alison going to make her charges more prone to GID? Perhaps the most troubling aspect of this disorder is the other mental issues it may or may not coincide with. Many of the symptoms of GID co-incide with bipolar disorder.

And I know that ancedotal evidence really shouldn't matter, but every transexual I've known in real life and online has been completely batshit insane. The one who takes the cake was a math professor I had one summer. Then again, ALL math professors have reputations for being a little nutty, so perhaps there were multiple factors at play here, that would call for a larger sample size to be examined before solid conclusions could be drawn. I leave that as an excercise for the reader.

I would probably drive my kid to school.

- Illuminatus
"Gender", as opposed to "biological sex", is a societaly created condition, imposed upon members of said society from birth, with social consequences for deviation from prescribed gender roles, and gender roles differ from culture to culture, therefore indicating a lack of universally accepted gender doctrine.

A man in a skirt in other cultures is just that - a man in a skirt. *shrugs*

If western society didn't have such strict gender codes, this so-called "illness" would not exist. People would recognise that biological sex has little to do with gender, and people would be free to adopt whatever visual identity and mannerisms that they saw fit.

The only illness I see is a society so wrapped up in it's own tight version of the social contract, it's creating deviant behaviour in the majority.

The only difference between a skirt and a pair of pants is a seam .

[banondraig]

i cross dress for work everyday. nobody seems to be disturbed by the fact that i am wearing clothing originally designed for males. then again, i'm in the military. i'd rather have a concerned ross-dressing busdriver around kids than a lot of the "manly men" i work with. i doubt the children are so fragile that the sight of a man in a skirt is going to make them wonder whether they are little boys or little girls, although as morrigen pointed out, the whole idea of "little boys/little girls" is artificial and probably harmful anyway.

[kewlhippiechick]

I have a very, very good friend who is about to begin HRT (hormone replacement therapy) to make the transition to female. I know that my friend is thinking about moving away from where he currently lives because of backlash from the people in the area who know/knew him/her (so confusing to type!) as a man. I think its very brave and honorable that Allison has stayed put. She's going to be faced with lots of nasty people who don't and won't even try to understand and accept her as she is now.
BRAVO to her! And to you! And if you really like her, take up her cause and help to educate those who are being closed-minded.

[ArKane]

I have a few close friends who were he's and are now she's and vice versa.

Don't take this the wrong way but your husband and those other people are very shallow minded to be worrying about something like that. If former he wasnt a current she then he would proberly have no problem with it. Am I right?

I think this comes down to a bit of ignorance on a few peoples part. Its doesnt matter what gender, sex, race or colour you are, your still a person.

[Illuminatus]

"Gender", as opposed to "biological sex", is a societaly created condition, imposed upon members of said society from birth, with social consequences for deviation from prescribed gender roles, and gender roles differ from culture to culture, therefore indicating a lack of universally accepted gender doctrine.

A man in a skirt in other cultures is just that - a man in a skirt. *shrugs*
.

Agreed. Until that man decides to subject himself to unnecessecary surgery, mutilating his genitals, pumping his blood full of hormones and rendering himself sexually neuter to indulge some bizarre fantasy. Cross-dressing is just the tip of the iceberg as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see anything wrong with it until the situation escallates into full blown GID.

[Sowelu]

i doubt the children are so fragile that the sight of a man in a skirt is going to make them wonder whether they are little boys or little girls, although as morrigen pointed out, the whole idea of "little boys/little girls" is artificial and probably harmful anyway.
That's exactly what the people who are against Allison being a busdriver-worry about...like it's going to affect the minds/mind-thinking of their children.
and Illuminatus, I understand your point of view, but I don't believe it stands for every Trannsexual/Cross-dresser, etc..out there.:)

[banondraig]

Agreed. Until that man decides to subject himself to unnecessecary surgery, mutilating his genitals, pumping his blood full of hormones and rendering himself sexually neuter to indulge some bizarre fantasy. Cross-dressing is just the tip of the iceberg as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see anything wrong with it until the situation escallates into full blown GID.

there's plenty of men out there who, for some reason, like to wear women's clothing. i don't understand it myself. men's clothes are so much more comfortable -- no high heels, no extraneous underwear, no silly frills & furbelows to get in your way. i'm starting to wander off topic so i'll cut that thought off here.

it doesn't sound that bad to me. whoever started the thread (sorry- i'm bad with names) said the guy doesn't even wear makeup. so if he wants to be a woman -- he's sure not trying very hard. :hehehehe:

[Sowelu]

there's plenty of men out there who, for some reason, like to wear women's clothing. i don't understand it myself. men's clothes are so much more comfortable -- no high heels, no extraneous underwear, no silly frills & furbelows to get in your way. i'm starting to wander off topic so i'll cut that thought off here.

it doesn't sound that bad to me. whoever started the thread (sorry- i'm bad with names) said the guy doesn't even wear makeup. so if he wants to be a woman -- he's sure not trying very hard. :hehehehe:
No, I haven't seen him wear makeup yet, but he keeps his nails done up pretty dam nice!:hehehehe:

[LadyTrinity]

I know some people have problems dealing with the fact that someone has changed their gender, be it appearance wise or physically. However I do not see anything wrong with someone wanting to be the way they are. I don't think I have the right to judge anyone. After all... I wouldn't want anyone judging me.
Remember everyone Love! Don't bash each other! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_134.gif

[Agayvli Wahya]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a man wearing women's clothing. Women get niftier clothes than us guys. In some cases a hell of a lot more comfortable too.

[morrigen]

Agreed. Until that man decides to subject himself to unnecessecary surgery, mutilating his genitals, pumping his blood full of hormones and rendering himself sexually neuter to indulge some bizarre fantasy. Cross-dressing is just the tip of the iceberg as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see anything wrong with it until the situation escallates into full blown GID.

The way I see it, without societaly enforced gender roles, there would probably be little need for gender reasssignment surgery. Alot of transgendered people are just that - transgendered,not trans-sexed.

Of course there wiill always be ssome people who dessire to live in a body with the opposite sex characteristics.

The desire to enact an opposing gender role is different from the desire to actually change sex, but unfortunately, even the medical/psychiatric professions have trouble getting their head around that one, and alot of transgendered people are convinced that they need to "be a woman" to enjoy a woman's gender and "be a man" to enjoy a male gender.

Of course, where I'm going with this, is that if we didn't have stringent guidlines as to what constitutes male gender and female gender, there wouldn't be a problem.

I wonder how we got to the point where it was set in stone that only women could wear dresses, makeup and high-heels. That cerrtain mannerisms, traits and abilities were "feminine"

That only men could wear ties, traditionally have short hair (at least to compete in mosst corporations). And then you have traditionally "male" mannerisms and virtues.

But it's not that easy. most people have some of the traits of each gender,and are taught to repress the traits of the opposite gender from birth.

This is what I fiind ridiculous. Society invented these dualisms of gender, and we look upon those who don't fit these roles as freaks...

But who is to say that society's definitions of the original roles are correct?

[Pesha]

Judging a book by its cover can result in never reading what might be a great and interesting book. Thei pserson sounds as if she is caring and good with the kids and poses no harm in my eyes. I wonder why people cannot sometimes see that not everything in life is black and white.......there are many shades of grey. And some of the grey can be quite nice.

BB
DS.

[Romani Vixen]

I'd have no issues. given the situation that you describe. I would regardless of sex, want to talk to the busdriver. As long as you feel safe with leaving the kids with a person, who cares weither or not that have boobs where there used to be none....

[Romani Vixen]

oh... quick addition... at the end of the school year... if I were you, I'd write a thought out card. Tell her how much you appreciate how well she does her job. Don't mention sex. just let her know that you appreciate her. would probably make her month!!!!

[Sowelu]

oh... quick addition... at the end of the school year... if I were you, I'd write a thought out card. Tell her how much you appreciate how well she does her job. Don't mention sex. just let her know that you appreciate her. would probably make her month!!!!
I have. Twice:smile:

[Goddess Rhiannon]

As the old saying goes.....everytime you point your finger at someone....you are pointing four back at yourself. Respecting other's for who they are...and not who we want them to be is a big one for me.

[Antoninus]

If hes a good person, does his job, doesnt pose any kind of threat to anyone, then I dont see the problem. Yeah hes different...and the problem with that is? Maybe Im a little more open-minded, but its so childish. Id point out to the people that are against the bus driver, tell them how childish they are being. As long as the kids are ok with it and he does his job, who cares?

[StephanieAine]

Oh, I am SO SICK of people flipping out over things like this.

My daughter is almost nineteen years old now, but back when she was small, I wouldn't have cared *one bit* if her bus driver happened to start dressing as the opposite sex; I'd assume it was part of the whole pre-op process, and so a necessary part of the person's life. That person deserves to have a job, and if driving a bus is their job, so be it!

If, on the other hand, the person was *strange* and acted in ways that had caused concerns prior to the cross-dressing, then that might put a different spin on things. But in that case, it wouldn't be the cross-dressing that was the problem, it would be inappropriate behavior followed by cross-dressing.

It sounds like the bus driver is a nice person, and obviously the kind of a person who takes care to look out for the children's safety. That's priceless, because there are plenty of bus drivers who could care less what goes on.

If I was the parent of a young child riding that driver's bus, my biggest concerns would have to do with the attitudes and experiences of the children riding the bus, including my own child. I'd want to explain to the child why the driver looked different (to the best of my knowledge), and explain that it wasn't something to make jokes about with other kids (even if other kids were joking about it first), and that the child should try not to stare, even if the driver was the most fascinating thing to look at (and I'd probably say that if they feel like the person is interesting to look at, it would be more polite to SAY to the driver, "I like the way your shirt looks.") I'd probably also ask my child fairly frequently, with an ear for hints, things like "So, how was your trip home today?" - so that if the child was hearing things from other kids, I could correct misinformation before the child accepted rumor as fact.

I can't imagine what it would be like to have to suddenly dress as the other sex and just suddenly appear that way in public - people can be really cruel. I hope the driver isn't on the receiving end of any serious prejudice or cruelty from kids *or* adults.

[blugirrl1]

i don't see the harm in it. if she gets the children safely to and from school, what is the big deal? takes all kinds to make the world go round.
when we lived in new orleans, i worked at the local adult shop days, hubby worked nights, so when we would switch there would be a gap of about 15 minutes, well my son met all kinds of people and it never bugged him. nor us. when he was about 2 we lived with a friend of mine who was a guy, but sometimes liked wearing woman's clothes. it never bothered me then, nor would it now. but that is just my liberal opinion. :)