le sigh. . . (a rant)

[Sequoia]

my dad is an. . .interesting. . . person.

when I first said how I was pagan, he seemed kewl with it. A bit surprised, to be certain, but he didn't seem to have anything against it. He asked questions, I happily answered, everything seemed cool.

when I went to the psychologist's, they had us both fill out forms. I saw later that on the one he filled out, an activity he had selected that I did was "strange and unnatural rituals" or something like that. . . lighting a candle and praying to the Mother isn't exactly a psychiatric disease. . .

We got into a discussion about pentacles one morning taking my little bro to school. . . I was disgusted because I had seen someone had graffitied (is that a word?) an upside down one on a wall, and I ranted for a few min about how people kept thinking that a pentacle was evil and stuffs. . . and I pointed out how point-up it looks like a person, and point down is the "evil" associated way, because it resembels the Christian devil. And my dad got this attitude and said that I shouldnt' wear a pentacle because it's so easy to mistake and people would think I was a Satan-worshipper (don't get me wrong: if that's your thing and it makes you happy, go for it dude. So long as you don't hurt anyone or yourself. It's just not my thing.)

Several days later, we got into a discussion (again, I was trapped in the car with him -_-; ). Somehow we got around to heaven and hell and death and all that stuffs. . . and I was talking about how I didn't belive in heaven, really. . . but then again I didn't belive in hell. And how I belived that after death it's simply another level of existance, and I kinda vaguely tried to explain the astral plane. . . and how I figured that any god whom anyone ever believed in existed, whether in "truth" (rather subjective, ne?), or just inside that person (no less valid!), and that their own respective heavens and hells probably existed in their own little area of the plains (I have interesting ideas, don't I?). . . and my dad got this exasperated attitude, especially when I said I didn't belive that I was subject to the Christian heaven and hell (my dad's generic Christian (not one specific, so far as I know)), and he was like "*sighs* *shakes head* that's too bad. . . " and he almost seemed angry with me.

*sighs* I've decided not to mention it to him anymore unless he starts the conversation. I asked him, without mentioning paganism, if I could buy a SINGLE yellow candle when we went grocery shopping (because of the advide of a friend), and he said immediately "NO." and proceeded to tell me that I'm not allowed to burn a candle in the house unless it's an emergancy. . .

. . . I need to pray to the Mother. Is that a good enough emergancy, dad?

I'm just exasperated. He seemed so ok with this at first. Where did I go wrong? I'm very considerate too. . . it was very recently my grandma's 80th birthday, and I normally wear a pentacle around my neck, in a very visible place. But I didn't know how she'd react, and I didn't want her to have one of her anxiety attacks, so I carried it in my pocket instead, out of respect and curtosy to her and my dad and my family. I wonder if Dad even noticed.

-_-; and my brother can't be helping. He likes to talk about how Wiccans and Pagans are just SO COOL because they can put hexes on people and they think the devil is cool and they can do all sorts of "cool magic stuff!!!" . . . le sigh. I think he may have given dad a few bad ideas. . . so many people see it as some kind of rebellion or fad instead of a religion. . . and good old Bush sure isn't helping things.

anyways, this has been my extremely long rant. Anybody got any ideas on how to help my dad come around? Or any similar stories? Any help's good. . .

~Puma Hime

[loopy]

:( Sorry for your problems, and even sorrier that I have no idea how to help. :( The best I can offer is to give it a little time, or maybe ask your dad to read a nice objective book on Paganism.

My mom did the same thing... acted like she didn't mind at all, but then out of nowhere asked me to go to Church one day. Now, she doesn't even go to Church, but it was approaching some holiday. So she asked me over the phone while I was at my friend's house. I declined, and she asked why not. I told her because I'm not Christian, and she said, very firmly, "YES you ARE."

I wasn't sure what to say, I was just.. stunned, I guess. I almost started crying right there; my friend wasn't sure what was wrong with me, and I couldn't speak to tell her.

<sigh> It's the little things that hurt the most, you know? She didn't bring it up after that, but that's always been in my mind, that she couldn't bother to accept my word about my religion, and she couldn't be bothered to read something explaining what it was really is.

Ack. I gotta stop typing.

Good luck friend {{hugs}} Just remember no matter what, the Goddess is always behind you.

(Also, I don't think she minds if you don't have a candle to pray to her-- spoken word can have the same effect, IMO only, of course. :) )

[Sequoia]

*HUGS*

how aweful of your mom! I know how you feel though. . .

I don't know how my dad will react on Christmas. My religion is very eclectic, and I'm more than happy to celebrate a kinda-god's birthday. I mean, I've celebrated my whole life and I love christmastime, I just wonder what he and everyone else will think of me. Even if i'm not Christian, it's a special holiday for me. I've celebrated hannikah (dammit I can't spell), Beltane, Christmas, Easter (name a few more mainstream christian holidays hehe that's how I was raised), and others. . . I think they're all very special, because people come together and joyfully express what they belive and love and know.

and on the other hand I wonder if I'm going to have to endure the whole idea of "well you don't belive in Christmas so I'm not gonna get you a Christmas present." :rolleyes: I'll get anyone a winter-holiday-of-their-choice present. . . I don't care what you call it hehe 8O besides, the wrapping paper is so cute!

so what if I pick and choose from different religions. . . all are valid to me. I just have trouble understanding why others can't see it from my point of view. . . why wouldnt' everyone's views be equal?

then again, I have trouble understanding why people would wage wars. Either I'm simple or Naieve. . . ^^; I"m pathetically naieve. Just ask my poor boyfriend 8O

man, I'm posting long tonight!

*runs off for bed*

~Puma Hime

[Socharis]

no all the ppl i know are very understanding.

[loopy]

Puma-- I feel ya; I'm incredibly naive too. :) Blech, I can't believe I just admitted it, lol.

Good luck around the holidays. :) I love celebrating Christmas; even though I don't follow the story behind it, it really is a magickal time of the year, with the lights and presents and family and everything. :) And since it's around the time of Winter Solstice, I can just pretend we're all celebrating that. :D

From what I've heard, families are keen on giving Christmas presents to non-Christian members because they think it'll help them see the light. That's what I've heard from friends, anyhow.

:)

[Sequoia]

hehe sounds good to me! :D
I love getting together with family and traveling, and the happy atmosphere that time of year. whatever you call the winter holiday, I like it!!

hehe and if giving gifts is how they plan to convert me "back". . . go for it!! I"d like an mp3 player walkman thingie, an second harddrive for my compie, SMSS subtitled, all of the Slayers series subtitled, some nice-smelling stuffs from bath and body works. . . clothes are good. . . :D 8O

[Myst]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
and I pointed out how point-up it looks like a person, and point down is the "evil" associated way, because it resembels the Christian devil

Actually the point down pentacle is often used to represent the second level of initiation - point down because this second level often represents "entering the underworld" in an effort to explore the darker energies of life in ourselves and around us.

Like the cross, the pentacle is not evil because it's turned upside down.

[Myst]

I can understand your being upset but I can't relate. When my parents found out about my beliefs (which wasn't hard, being as I was walking around with my nose in a Pagan book 95% of the time) they were supportive. My mom thought it was "cool" and asked if she could borrow one of my books so she could learn about it too. My dad and I had a great talk about our beliefs on religion and the after life, and we all discussed how they raised us with Christian holidays because that was "what everyone else does". My mom has since had a few tarot card readings by friends of mine and my dad even gave us permission to do healing spells for him.. My extended family all feel that way, and some of my cousins are also Pagan. My mom's grandma was even a clairvoyant and tea leaf reader herself. Even my significant other's family are all supportive and often ask me about it or the jewelry I wear (ie. dragons, pentacles, moons, etc.)...

Hopefully given some time your dad will come around. Next time you want to burn a candle buy one yourself and take it to a private place (ie. in a park or a bush) or ask a sympathetic friend to do your work at their place.

[Yvonne Belisle]

It can also be a control issue. As you get older parents have less and less control. If they started out ok there are a lot of things it could be. They may have thought it was a rebellion issue but since you weren't being rebelous about it they may have gotten scared. Remember people are often scared of what they don't understand. You have been honest about how you feel so I suggest you just quietly bide your time till you are old enough to move out. If asked to go to church just say if that will make you happy I will go with you.You don't have to pray or believe just be quietly respectfull. You can even tell them that you don't feel comfortable at church and if they attend regularly ask if you can just go once a month. When you are praying don't tell them who too let it be unsaid you may be surprised at how much easier it could become. After all the god they worship may not be the one you worship but it still is a god and deserving of respect. You could consider it visiting a relative and simply paying your respects. It's worth a try.

[Sequoia]

on the pentacle - gomen ne, I was mistaken. I also made a point to say ""evil" associated", not "evil evil it's so bad!". . . it just kind of ups my heartrate when I see them graffitied, becasue half the time I get bad vibes where people who thought they were being cool tried to "mark their territory" not only physically but magickally too. Not that I could really explain that to my dad or brother. . . they just don't get it. I try, but well. . . -_-; doesn't seem to work.

it's really awesome that your family's like that! My aunt madie is really cool. . . I havn't out-and-out said "I'm pagan" I think (I may have, I have a poor memory -_-; ), but she and I have talked about things like other gods and past lives, and psychic readings and things like that, and she seems very open-minded about it. My Aunt Madie is a very cool person :D I love her to death.

I suppose I'm lucky that my dad's not trying to make me read the bible or anything like that. He's giving me my freedom, even if he dissaproves, which is more than a lot of parents do, if I understand correctly.

[Sequoia]

eep missed yvonne's post! sorry!

my dad doesn't even go to church, neither does my mom. In fact, the only times I can remember going to church were when I insisted on going and dragged my parents along. . .when I was about 10 or 11 I went through this odd extremely, EXTREMELY Christian phase. . . I'm so embarrased now, because on a school report on Egyptians, I called them "false gods." I am so ashamed! I pray to Bast now! (and other Egyptian gods, occasionally. . . gods! it's so embarrassing, that report!)

I honestly don't know where my dad stands, or what his exact beliefs are. I'm thinking about how to ask him (he's on vacation with my bro, so I'll wait until he gets home). I'm also slightly concerened because his new girlfriend (she's a wonderful woman, I like her a lot) is Catholic (although not really by-the-book, she said she's not strict and doesn't go to church or anything, but that she was raised that way), and I'm wondering if maybe she's having an influence on his behevior regarding me. I just don't know, so I'll probably end up asking him what his beliefs are to give me a sort of an idea of what might be ok to mention around him and what might not.

[Lilu]

Originally posted by loopy
:( Sorry for your problems, and even sorrier that I have no idea how to help. :( The best I can offer is to give it a little time, or maybe ask your dad to read a nice objective book on Paganism.

I've recommended this book 100 times in these forums, but I love it THAT much as an intro to Wicca. I don't know if you are Wiccan, but even if not, you could check out the book and see if it's appropriate to your beliefs. It's very generic, that's what I like about it, I have several copies (one is my "loaning" copy LOL)

It's called

"Pocket Guide to Wicca" by Estelle Daniels & Paul Tuitean

Lilu

[Lilu]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
I'll get anyone a winter-holiday-of-their-choice present. . . I don't care what you call it hehe 8O besides, the wrapping paper is so cute!

hehehe We still do the whole Christmas thing with family. My family makes an effort and at least wishes us a "Happy Yule" and don't buy us Jesus cards, and Jesus wrapping paper etc.

My in-laws are either very Christian (ie. my mother-in-law) or ignorant (the rest of the family) about the holidays we celebrate (they acknowledge that we're not Christian, but they think we still celebrate Christmas? hehe I don't care).

But I go out of my way to buy cards that are "neutral" - usually with a snowflake, or animals, or something like that on it. Last year I found some beautiful gold&silver (god and goddess) cards with pinecones on one, and a snowflakes on the other (I got two different sets) and inside it wished everyone a "Happy Holiday" which is great! I also do the same with wrapping paper, I go out of my way to find paper without nativity stuff on it etc. I even try to avoid Santa, but sometimes I get that too. :)

It's possible to do, and I make it sort of like an affirmation of my beliefs. I feel good because I can still be true to my beliefs without having to use symbols that I don't believe in. Try it! You'll be surprised how much "neutral" stuff there is out there that is leaning close to pagan symbolism.

Lilu

[Kaylara]

Well, I celebrate Yule. I give Yule presents on Yule. And if my family members can't handle it tough... I'm not christian, nor will I pretend to be for the sake of their sensibilities (except for maybe my great grandmothers... They're kinda frail.) I will respect the fact that they celebrate Christmas, but I will not celebrate it because it is not my holiday.

Kaylara

[Lilu]

We do our presents on Yule too. For the rest of the family it's so mixed up and badly planned that present-giving ends up being scattered throughout the whole week whenever we get together with respective families, and it NEVER falls on Christmas itself. LOL

[Sequoia]

hehe this has become the holiday thread!! 8O no problems here about it, though ^_^

. . . I've heard the phrase "Yule Log", but. . . what's Yule? I don't mean to sound ignorant. Can anyone tell me?

hai, this year I think I'm going to be trying to get the kind of wrappings and ornaments and cards that are "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" hehe I think one year I saw sun, moon, and star paper with dark blue background and the sun, moon, and stars in gold foil. I'll have to look for it again.

[Lilu]

Yule is the celebration of the Winter Solstice.
I have a page with some info here:

http://www.geocities.com/aerinleigh/bos/sabbats/yule.html

Be sure to check out the cool links page, lots of great info there!!!

Lilu

[Myst]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
. . . I've heard the phrase "Yule Log", but. . . what's Yule? I don't mean to sound ignorant. Can anyone tell me?


Basically the Pagan version of Christmas - also one of our minor Sabbats... Falls in December near the time Christmas does.

We celebrate Christmas and Yule - Christmas with my mother's relatives on Christmas day, with my boyfriend's family on Christmas Eve, and with my dad's family on New Years Day, and then our Yule with the Circle sometime around it :)

Samhain happens to be my favourite holiday to celebrate with Circle - we dress up (you can't show up without a costume), eat tons of candy, and drink like fish, as well as play silly board games or watch movies or just act like general drunken idiots :)

[Sequoia]

ooh I"ll be sure to check out that link!

hmm. . . Samhain? that's. . . Halloween, right? :D sounds like a great celebration!! hehe

"Sabbat" means holiday, right? . . . 8O the only time I've heard the word "Sabbat" was in the Vampire - The Masquirade game.

sheesh, I'm more of a newbie than I thought!

[Myst]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
hmm. . . Samhain? that's. . . Halloween, right? :D sounds like a great celebration!! hehe

"Sabbat" means holiday, right? . . . 8O the only time I've heard the word "Sabbat" was in the Vampire - The Masquirade game.


Yup Samhain = Halloween, and your Sabbats are your holidays - there are 8 of them a year, 4 major fire festivals and 4 minor - at the solstices and equinoxes and the day exactly midway between them :)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Actually the point down pentacle is often used to represent the second level of initiation - point down because this second level often represents "entering the underworld" in an effort to explore the darker energies of life in ourselves and around us.

Like the cross, the pentacle is not evil because it's turned upside down.

Too, it is sometimes considered an "invoking pentagram" ~ as inverted, it is used to 'draw in' power/energies.

[Danustouch]

I had a similar experience when I "came out" to my family about being pagan. My mother forbade me to light candles, or have anything remotely ceremonial in my bedroom. I also couldn't bring books into the house, pertaining to the craft. My mothers reasons were'nt just that she was uncomfortable with it though. She was afraid that my sister would be influenced, and would grow up to be like her "big sister". Meaning..that' she'd find it interesting. Anyway...i wound up leaving home after a big row concerning this same problem. The only difference..is that I was already an adult...just outta college.

My advice to you, is just try to make the best of the situation, for now. If you have to do a spell...or pray to the Mother, find a nice park, or someplace outside to do it. It sucks, and it's unfair that you can't practice in your home..but the way they see it..it's their home too..and it makes them uncomfortable. Perhaps if you try to be the one who gives in the situation...and tries to make them feel comfortable, it would make them think more positively of you, and your faith. In time, it heals. I think most parents make the mistake of thinking it's a phase, that you will pass through. I know mine did. But they were wrong. I've been Wiccan for a long time now. And eventually, they just had to accept that it is, indeed, my path.

Do they LIKE it? No..not particularly. Do they shove their faith down my throaght? NO. In fact, they've even somewhat defended me to my born again christian cousin who is ALWAYS trying to reconvert me. They've pointed out the fact that I never bring up my religious beliefs at a family gathering, and that I try to be respectful of theirs. And that I should be treated with the same courtesy. Although, they still say grace at holiday dinners, and such. Usually..I just wait until after grace is said , to sit down at the table. Their "Grace" is almost always offered by that born again christian..and includes a mini sermon about Jesus dying for our sins...(ugh.). But anyway..if he starts attacking me personally, they defend me to him. Which is nice.

I do celebrate Christmas..kinda...with them. I say "Happy Yule" they say "merry christmas". It doesn't matter to me what day it's celebrated on, specifically..mostly because I live a while away from them..so anytime I get together with them, is special. I celebrate Yule with my friends, on the day, though. And with my husband. We do exchange gifts, wrapped in "non religious" paper. I send out NON religious cards..and I even decorate a tree. Albeit, I use a fairy as the angel on top, I have plain glass bulbs, ribbons, colored pine cones, pentacles, and fairys on it. I love the season..I love the symbols, I love the love which goes around at that time of year.

I also sometimes attend Easter dinner with them. Though I make sure that I reply "yes..I should becoming to the Spring Feast". Or something like that. And I decorate eggs..since they are a fertility symbol :)

In short, I try to make my religion clear..without offending, lessening, or demeaning theirs. And it works out just fine. They have alot of respect for me as a person, however unsure they are about my faith.

[Shy Hawk]

My parents do not accept it or me....so, we just decided not to talk about it.
Three or Four years ago when I was quite new at Paganism....yes four years ago....I was doing a ritual indoors, and (embarrassed) accidentally caught something on fire....which propted my parents to bust in....and I was OF COURSE skyclad. So lets recap, strange "witchy" looking things around, daughter naked, stuff on fire, lots of candles everywhere.....a shrine...."Oh my God, you're a witch!"
That was how I was outed.
My father never talked to me about it again...actually he didn't talk to me period for a few weeks. Our relationship today is better because I don't mention my beliefs, and he lives in the delusion that I hold the same beliefs as him. Which is hard because I have quite a few altars in my room, I recieve a pagan/witch catalogue in the mail, and I have pagan oriented books all over my room. Not to mention statues, candles, incense, stones, herbs, and much more lying around. Then again, he refuses to enter my room...(sigh)
My mother on the other hand knows about me, and says "I don't want you to tell it to me straight out, because as long as I don't know, your father can't get mad at me." But at the core, she's afraid of everything I do. Because my parents are Muslims and strict ones at that....they have at a few times in my rocky history with them, threatened to send me oversees for my education, and I wouldn't be allowed to return till I was married. I think if I told my father straight out he'd probably ship me away, not long after beating the crap out of me.
I almost had to leave home about two years ago, relating to (again) choices that they believe are immoral and unethical. And so, if things ever got bad, I'd have to leave yes. But, I at least know how to appease them now. Never mention my personal business, and they will never ask. Ah ha, we have the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in my house.
I've told my mother the things I believe in....mostly, except the part about a lot of Gods (laughs)....but you know, about heaven, hell, death, the Earth, animals, metaphysics, all that wonderful stuff. She even uses my essential oils to scent the bathroom....just as long as I don't say anything right out.
It's been tough. But after college, life is mine. (Cause they are paying for it, as long as I don't screw anything up. Sort of...blackmail, I know.)
ShyHawk

[Sequoia]

awww shy hawk!!!


:mad: if your father EVER lays a hand on you, I'll PERSONALLY come over there and proceed to beat the crap outta him. *HUG* I"m so very sorry you have it so tough! Good luck on getting through college, I'm glad you have that. *good luck vibes your way*

[Shy Hawk]

lol, it's alright. ;) Everything is gravy.

I could always take up a hobby to pass the time.......bridge, coin collecting, tennis, mescaline....or bowling. :eek:
(Just kidding folks!)

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Lilu
We do our presents on Yule too. For the rest of the family it's so mixed up and badly planned that present-giving ends up being scattered throughout the whole week whenever we get together with respective families, and it NEVER falls on Christmas itself. LOL

We're like that too. When it's just us, we do something special for Yule but we also have stuff going on all week at various relative's houses & such.

Puma & Loopy, I really appreciate your points of views. As a parent, I know myself, I tend to worry about my son & his choices. He's only 11 right now but I try to let him decide on things (with a bit of guideline from me). And as much as I try to respect his decisions, it's hard not to say anything. As frustrating as it is right now, I think your parents are just worry if you're making the right choices for yourself. I don't think parents ever grow out of that. I'm 40 & my mom still worries about me. You two come across as very responsible people & I think your parents will see that. Their learning curve will probably be a slow going process. Be patient with them & good luck! :)

[Sequoia]

thanks. . . :)

[bloodstone20]

When i have to say grace, i take all the Pagan parts out of my food blessing and subsitiute the God for Jesus, so it basically goes:
Ummm, Jesus died, so .. ummm ... we could eat?
So, ummm, why don't we? Eat that is. Umm., yeah.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
When i have to say grace, i take all the Pagan parts out of my food blessing and subsitiute the God for Jesus, so it basically goes:
Ummm, Jesus died, so .. ummm ... we could eat?
So, ummm, why don't we? Eat that is. Umm., yeah.

Rub-a-dub, thanks for the grub. Let's eat. Amen. :bigredgri

Good food, good meat, good god, let's eat. :bigredgri

[Sequoia]

LOL!

[Willow Polson]

Originally posted by loopy

Good luck around the holidays. :) I love celebrating Christmas; even though I don't follow the story behind it, it really is a magickal time of the year, with the lights and presents and family and everything. :) And since it's around the time of Winter Solstice, I can just pretend we're all celebrating that. :D



We are. Jesus was actually born, according to Biblical scholars, in the spring or fall (lambs out in the fields at the time and all that). It was only later, when it became clear that the only way to convert Pagans to Christianity was to adopt their holidays, that December 25 was declared to be Christmas day. And is it any accident that the birth of the Son is the same day as the birth of the Sun? (This date accomodates changes in the Gregorian calendar since the 25th was decided upon).

And I celebrate everything too. 8-) I have a non-Pagan hubby who LOVES the usual secular Xmas celebrating (as do I) and I have a 4 year old son that I'm raising to acknowledge that all paths to the Great Spirit are valid.

[loopy]

Originally posted by Willow Polson


We are. Jesus was actually born, according to Biblical scholars, in the spring or fall (lambs out in the fields at the time and all that). It was only later, when it became clear that the only way to convert Pagans to Christianity was to adopt their holidays, that December 25 was declared to be Christmas day. And is it any accident that the birth of the Son is the same day as the birth of the Sun? (This date accomodates changes in the Gregorian calendar since the 25th was decided upon).


:D:D I suppose what I meant to say was, I can pretend everyone else knows we're celebrating Yule. :D

[Xander67]

you know, when you stop and think about it, alot of the "Christian" hoildays are actually "pagan" in thier origins

THe tree and the lights, those are pagan.. they were used to celebrate yule.. the tree was used to honnor the sun , heck in Jerimiah, it even says so...."look how the pagans go into the woods, they cut down a tree, adorn it with gold and silver to worship the sun"

its not about Labels, christmas, yule etc..... when you peel away the labels, the politics, the religion, and get down to the core true meaning of the holidays.... then things start to make sense..

Every culture is different, and they all have a way of expression and traditions, but the hostility, between christian's and pagans has been going on for too long.... a few of us, are starting to wake up and take a look at things from a higher perspective...
we arent so different when we strip away the labels and all the Man made rules.......

so I say, respect each other, if your mom is christian, and you are pagan,,, SO WHAT! send her a christmas card and only ask in return that she respect your beliefs.....

[Angelwulfe]

my dads real cool about. he's not pagan himself but he's pagan friendly. he actualy introduced me to paganism my taking me to a pagan festival were i was able to learn about wicca first hand and met my boyfriend who is also my teacher of the old ways. on the other hand i've had a similar expirence to pumas with my mother. she seems pretty cool about it most of the time but sometimes she asks me if i practice evil. one time she reffered to the altar in my room to my "sacrificial table" also one time she confiscated my sisters athame and would'nt give it back till i explained that it wasn't use to harm anyone and wasn't actually used to cut anything in the physical realm. the thing is she could easily be a pagan herself seeing is she belives in fearies and elemental and she believes in reicarnation but then again she goes to a church that believes in these things. so you'd think she'd understand what i do better but then she never did understand me too well in first place so i guess it's not that surprising

[Dryad's Wyrd]

My mother found a couple of my books when I first started practising and burned them in the wood stove. I was VERY upset because they were pretty important to me. I have since learned and keep them at my fiance's house.

[Willow Polson]

My BoS "disappeared" one day when I was at school and I never saw it again, along with a copy of "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex but Were Afraid to Ask." Real progressive thinking, eh?

Don't let it get you down. If you're serious, a little book burning won't stand in your way. But it does give a very sad, smallminded view of certain relatives...

[Lavender]

That is sad, isn't it? I know the pagan books in the community library goes missing all the time. Or pages have been torn out of them. :(

[Willow Polson]

Xander: No, it does NOT say in Jeremiah what you quoted. There is NO reference to Xmas trees in the Bible:

Jeremiah 10:3-4 -- "For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest; The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter."

Jeremian 10:8-9 -- "But they are altogether stupid and foolish in their discipline of delusion -- their idol is wood! Beaten silver is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of a craftsman and of the hands of a goldsmith."

So they are obviously talking about carving wooden idols and embellishing them with precious metals, NOT cutting trees out of the forest and decorating them. This is from the New American Standard study Bible, and the Torah says the same thing almost word for word.

Let's not spread misinformation, please!!

[UnSolon]

Willow Polson - "Everything you ever wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask"! lol... thats a great book. Mind you it was my parents, years ago, which bought it for the household... lol... peace

[TheTheologin]

Well my family was never religious and when I told them that I was Pagan they were like "well, ok" Then they started to tease me constanly and they all of the sudden got really Religious on me. My dad isn't but he still teases and it makes me mad. The do it still even though I denounced religion.

[Aylwyn]

With my family it's really funny. Everyone knows but nobody will discuss it. That's how its always been and I suspect always will be. So... I have to say that I'm not officially out of the broomcloset.

[Xander67]

Originally posted by Willow Polson
Xander: No, it does NOT say in Jeremiah what you quoted. There is NO reference to Xmas trees in the Bible:

Jeremiah 10:3-4 -- "For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest; The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter."

Jeremian 10:8-9 -- "But they are altogether stupid and foolish in their discipline of delusion -- their idol is wood! Beaten silver is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of a craftsman and of the hands of a goldsmith."

So they are obviously talking about carving wooden idols and embellishing them with precious metals, NOT cutting trees out of the forest and decorating them. This is from the New American Standard study Bible, and the Torah says the same thing almost word for word.

Let's not spread misinformation, please!!

ok 2 questions...

uh, in order to get wood to decorate with silver, wouldnt they have to cut down trees???

and where does it say they carved wooden idols?

all it says is their Idol as wood, I guess this is an interpretation issue. but it certainly does not state that they were carveing idols..

But still they had to cut down the tree to get the wood right?

[Myst]

Originally posted by Xander67
[B]uh, in order to get wood to decorate with silver, wouldnt they have to cut down trees??[?/B]

Uh no, they could've just as easily picked a tree near their home or in front of a forest or anywhere and just decorated it without cutting it down (people still do that), tho the bit about having to fasten the tree so it won't fall down suggests it's not still freestanding and yes that it was probably cut down. Tho no one said Christmas trees had to be cut down to be Christmas trees either.

[Bahamut04640]

well...i can say i have had a similar expiriance before with my grand mother...

i was researching religion once (Plan on being a religious teacher for a living...) and was on Buddhism...i told her (She asked what i was doing...it gose against my nature to lie) and after a long pause she says

"Dont be getting into that S*** Michael..."

i asked why and she cuts in

"BECAUSE THEY WORSHIP THE DEVIL!!!"

funney thing is when i say something that happened to a buddhist she says

"Well...they had it comeing to them!"

but on Pagans she says its horrable...

so for her this is it

Buddhism = Devil worship
All other religions = Thats HORRABLE!
Christianity = They'll burn in hell

very strange woman...very strange woman indeed

[true sadness]

I asked him, without mentioning paganism, if I could buy a SINGLE yellow candle when we went grocery shopping (because of the advide of a friend), and he said immediately "NO." and proceeded to tell me that I'm not allowed to burn a candle in the house unless it's an emergancy. . .

~Puma Hime

Ugh!!! My mother did the same thing to me!! I couldn't burn any candles or ANYTHING at all becuase I'd "burn the house down" and I was 15-17 but my 12 and 9 year old siblings can burn candles whenever they want. It makes my blood boil!

Oh yeah, and sometimes I burn candles just to burn them and not for religious purposes (other than it calm me) and my mom would come in and just take my candles any time she saw it out, and she's taken lighters from me to.

RRRR (growls viciously and pulls hair out)

[mothwench]

you think you're naive? pffffft. i've just had a look at your profile to see how old you are. for you're age, i think you're exceptionally smart.
have you asked your dad about his sudden change of heart? maybe there's something behind this that sparked it off, i mean there's crap in the media about pagans all the time. maybe he heard something nasty, and then it's up to you to clear it up.

[DragonLove]

I checked off that I havent come out of the broom closet yet but thats only true with family outside my home. My husband, kids and friends are all very understanding :D

[DayDreamer]

Honey, you're almost 19 years old. You don't need ANYONE's permission to practice your religion, purchase a candle (yellow or otherwise) or to wear the jewelry of your choice.

The simple cure is to tell your father that while you respect his religious beliefs, you do not share them - and you expect him to do the same.

Then do your rituals and your prayers. If he has a problem with you burning candles in his house, then get your OWN place. Or go outside.