Wolf/Raven/Hawk trend??

[Arinya]

Just something curious that I've noticed but...
whenever questions about what's your spirit animal, spirit guide, familar, totem animal, or similar questions come up, I see a lot of, Mine's a wolf, a hawk, or a raven.

Now I am not saying anyone who says they have a wolf/hawk/raven as something is wrong or anything like that...I'm just curious what these three seem so popular?

So, is this actually a trend or am I just silly?
If it is a trend, why do you think it is? Why don't we have more squirrels, spiders, ants, fish, etc.?

[Kyraya]

My guess would be that a lot of people who wish to have animal guides wish to have one that sounds magestic or powerful or that has meaning behind the animals form. This of course is only my guess and is exactly that a guess.

[mucgwyrt]

Mine's a white goose, and before that I had a swallow :)

I think that wolves, hawks and ravens are very common because they are very commonly associated with the native americans. I think there are a alot of bears, too. You can't control what your animal guide is, it depends on where you are in your life. Perhaps society as a whole is in one general area, which is best guided by these few animals. Who knows? :smile:

[Arinya]

A thought that Macha's post prompted...perhaps animal guides choose to take the form of these common animals because they are easier to follow? Some would have a very difficult time having a spider as an animal guide, especially if they're afraid of spiders which is rather common.

[Jaroson]

Hadn't thought of the spirit guide choosing how to appear. Mine's a fox, so not particularly majestic, but still has links with native american totems. The others are extremely majestic and also somewhat mysterious - as if the animal has hidden knowledge.

[mucgwyrt]

Mr Goose has hidden wisdom too :steppy:
Well ok, maybe not like the hawk, but at least Mr Goose likes hugs :spinner:

[Erebus]

I'm convinced it's another manifestation of "Cleopatra Syndrome". Nobody has a turkey buzzard or a groundhog as a spirit animal for the same reason that nobody was ever Pope Pious or King John in a previous life.

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

I'm convinced it's another manifestation of "Cleopatra Syndrome". Nobody has a turkey buzzard or a groundhog as a spirit animal for the same reason that nobody was ever Pope Pious or King John in a previous life.

I can see some truth in your statement. For me, having run a group for several years now, it's right up there with the "I was (Cleopatra, Joan of Arc, ect) in my previous life." No one ever says, "I was a beggar living in poverty in my last life."

It seems that some people are more convinced that they must come across as "mystical" to feel special. That sort of thing seems very common in beginners down the path, according to my experience. But for those who stay on the path, it seems to fade away over time for the most part.

As for an animal totem/guide, mine is the red squirrel.

Avalon's Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[Lunacie]

I've had Butterfly and Owl as spirit guides for longer than the idea has been popular. My youngest granddaughter has a snake who came to visit me before she was born. That's an interesting idea about Spirit Guides being able to take different forms in order to work with us better. Although there may also be people who are just jumping on the bandwagon, eh?

[Cappy]

Hmm, I used to think mine was a wolf (back when I was obsesed with wolves) but later, while in meditation, a Crow apeared. It wasn't what I wanted but I wasn't the one doing the picking. Years later, the lynx apeared. It wasn't the wolf but I can live with the crow and the lynx. :D

[HorseCrow]

I am so relieved that you started this thread- I've wondered that very same thing for soooo long, but not had the guts to ask, for fear of being misunderstood. It seems that so many people have the wolf, tiger, dolphin, eagle thing going, that I can't help wondering...
To me, a power animal/totem is not an animal you pick yourself- it picks you. And I have this nagging feeling that many of those bears, wolves and eagles have been the chosen ones, not the choosee.

[Phoenix Blue]

I'm convinced it's another manifestation of "Cleopatra Syndrome". Nobody has a turkey buzzard or a groundhog as a spirit animal for the same reason that nobody was ever Pope Pious or King John in a previous life.
I think, too, people see in these animals what they want to possess within themselves, and therefore surround themselves with images of the animals. I see nothing wrong with that practice, though you do have a point in that it isn't the same thing as having a spirit animal to begin with.

[mucgwyrt]

I dont mean to be rude, but I think you're being just a tad close minded:
"No one ever says, "I was a beggar living in poverty in my last life."
My brother was a pig farmer in a former life. I was an ordinary girl who died in a mining accident. "no one ever" is painting everyone with the same brush.

Perhaps it is "cleopatra syndrome" but someone out there was cleopatra, and to be quite honest to presume that only one person can ever have been cleopatra is making a few large assumptions about the way in which the universe works. So to the point - some people out there actually do have hawks for guides. Is it really our place to judge?

[docdoo]

Heh, I too am glad to see that someone asked about this curious trend. My animal totem is Coyote, who seems to live in Wolf's shadow hehe. I really rather believe that Frogs are another totem, though lately I consider myself lucky if I have enough time to shower much less meditate on Totem animals.

Having said that I have to agree with some of the remarks being put forth that the big 3 (Wolf, Raven and Hawk) are perhaps being picked rather than chose. I wonder, does anyone out there have a vulture? Or a toad? hehehe....

Til next time,

[IvyCeltress]

Well mine is Otter and I have Ivy as a plant totem.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Funny that this thread should pop up now ...

I did my first journeying meditation on the new moon to find my power animal. Now, I am a big skeptic, so first of all, I didn't really expect it to work, and secondly, I had in mind a few animals that I thought it might be - owl, bat (since I have an affinity with both), spider (since I've been seeing a lot of them lately), sloth (I thought that might be the universe's way of having fun with me, since I tend to put things off and quite enjoy being sedentary, ha!). So I was quite surprised when I saw all of these animals (except the sloth) and more, but they all either flat out ignored me, or ran away or simply said no when I asked them if they were my power animal.

But this red fox kept appearing, and when I finally clued in and asked him why a fox, he said in quite a smart-alecky tone, 'well, it suits you, don't you think?' - which I thought was quite funny, since I've never given much thought to foxes at all. :lol:

And another girl had a squirrel.

I think there are people with wolves, bears, dolphins, etc. as their power animals, but then I also think there are people with mice, rabbits, etc. ~ but you just don't hear about them as much. Doesn't mean they're not out there.

[cyprian]

I never thought about how so many people have the wolf, raven, and hawk but now that I think about it i do know quit a few wolves. My totem animal is the turtle and my shadow totem is the snake. I don't know why they are both reptiles.

[Deranged Hermit]

Well, mine actually is Raven, but I didn't choose it. If I had chosen one, it would have been Wolf, because I was totally obsessed with wolves at the time. My guess is that so many people have Wolf, Raven, Eagle, and so forth because they recognize them as spirit guides. Maybe my first one was supposed to be a slug, but I didn't recognize it as such... :huh:

[Aidron]

I think most often people claiming to posess the wolf, raven, hawk or other popular totem animals are simply latching on to a popular unconscious mind, likened to a trend. Images and concepts that due to mass appeal have become so intimately familiar (usually exaggerated and often based on inaccurate information) that we create illusions of such things in order to feel more important and feed our egos.

The raven happens to be my chief totem animal, but at first I didn't even accept it as I despise anything trite. Afterward I only partially accepted it and was mostly filled with skepticism. Over the years I've asked for signs to prove to me if I was in fact latching on to my own self delusions or the raven truly was part of me in this life. After many years I did finally accept it fully and no longer have any doubts. However, with that came piles of research into zoology and mythology, hundreds of hours of meditation focused solely on totem animals, and deep introspection on my part. Some of the signs I've recieved over the years have been vague in my eyes, others undeniable proof, which of course is simply a matter of perception. I feel this only served to strengthen my bond with the raven and that it appreciates the fact that I question things more than it would for me to blindly follow it or anything else.

Over the years I've met countless people sporting the raven as a totem animal (and I emphasize the word 'sporting' here as they seem to treat it as some sort of mystical accessory). Most I believe to be latching on to that self-delusions created by tapping into popular trends in order to feed their ego. In fact, I've met few people who I actually consider to know the truth about their totem animals period, and even less when it concerns the so-called popular ones. Even more quote unto me mindless drivel about the raven. I've heard everything from the raven being the smallest member of the its family (the Corvidae family, which they unaware of usually) so that it can easily slip through the astral planes carrying with it the spirits of the dead (sound like a popular movie featuring another member of the Corvidae family?) to it having a beautiful song which is so lovely it is often recorded for musical tracks as background vocals. Um, none that I've found. It is in fact the largest bird of the Corvidae family and its call is not a 'caw' like a crows or a song, it's more of a deep, throaty call, and in fact, does not sing period. This, along with my intuition rarely leads me to believe that most who claim the raven as the totem animal, truly are accurate in their claim. In fact, I've yet to meet more than a few who can tell me the difference between a raven and a crow (and there are significant differences beyond size).

But they are allowed to believe whatever they wish as they say, cause that's what 'Wicca' is all about . :rolleyes:

[Nighthawk]

You do not choose the animal...It chooses you.

[Thalias_Smile]

I have combination crow/coyote/snake...I constantly have "encounters" w/all three...snake representing unresolved issues, crows involving the death of one thing in order to move on, and coyote...well coyote likes to throw things into my life, JUST to see how I react to them--he is the best teacher--lol

[Phoenix Blue]

It just seems kinda presumptuous to me. "Well, you don't really have wolf/raven/whatever as a spirit animal..."

It's one thing to suggest that someone should learn more about other animals; but when it comes down to it, that person probably knows herself far better than you presume to know her. "Wicca" or not, it's someone else's path. Let her follow it and mind your own damn business.

[mucgwyrt]

It just seems kinda presumptuous to me. "Well, you don't really have wolf/raven/whatever as a spirit animal..."

It's one thing to suggest that someone should learn more about other animals; but when it comes down to it, that person probably knows herself far better than you presume to know her. "Wicca" or not, it's someone else's path. Let her follow it and mind your own damn business.

:uhhuhuh:
Well said.

[Chaos Witch]

I can agree with some of the things already said but I find motly not too many people are exposed to different animals. Either in the pagan community or simply by the media or school.

We are taught to be afraid of certain things when there is no real reaon to be like spiders, mice, and toads. Other common things like Budweiser pit bull, bear from Charmin commercials, Coke bear, taco bell dog, dolphin shows we go watch, etc, etc.

Sometimes I wonder if people expose themselves and learn more about other animals before meditating on them. To much subliminal animal imprinting is going on with the media.

[Lunacie]

It just seems kinda presumptuous to me. "Well, you don't really have wolf/raven/whatever as a spirit animal..."

It's one thing to suggest that someone should learn more about other animals; but when it comes down to it, that person probably knows herself far better than you presume to know her. "Wicca" or not, it's someone else's path. Let her follow it and mind your own damn business.
Seems to me like people here have been wondering and considering, not criticizing and condemning.

[DixieWitch]

You do not choose the animal...It chooses you.

I was chosen by a cat.

And as far as a past life, I've had one reading one that...I was told I was a man in my past life. I had a daughter that died. The post is somewhere here on MW. I will try to hunt it down and edit this post with the link.

edited to add: I couldn't find the post about my past life reading. Guess it was further back than I though and has been removed to the MW archives.

[Aurin]

It could be because those totems are easily recognizable...

I'm guessing it's pretty obvious I like wolves -- I have since I was very, VERY young ... I would say that the wolf is my power totem/lifetime totem.

Over the years I've had fox, owl, crow, raven ... All come into my life. I don't believe that there's anything wrong with multiple totems or having a "common" one (I.e. wolf) . I'm sure if I had been looking harder I would've be gifted with other totems...

Whether your totem is common or not, it has meaning for you. Even if YOU choose the totem ... You wish to have the qualities of that totem so you claim it as your own, you honor that totem and try to emulate it.

Perhaps the common totems are common simple because they can teach alot to many people?

[Pesha]

A dragon and a Kukaburra chose me......so I am definitly strange. The spirit chooses. The chosen is enhanced regardless of the choosers species.

BB
DS.

[Ravenna Angellin]

Since this topic caught my eye... I have noticed that alot of people seem to have those animals as "spirit animals" and truth-be-told, I've only known one person to have Raven as her totem, and one person to have Eagle as her totem.

My totem... Rattlesnake. Believe me, it was a shocker - I think rattlesnakes are probably the freakiest looking snakes of all (and I like snakes, too!) but it was still a shock to me ... 'specially since I've been told since I was a child that I have the tongue of a viper. :wtf: Talk about coincidence. But Rattlesnake has much to teach me, and I believe that we get different animals as our guides and teachers throughout our lifetimes. Sometimes they will stay for a short while, and sometimes, they will stay for the duration of your life. It depends on the lesson that particular animal wishes to teach.

~ Ravenna Angelline

[Phoenix Blue]

Seems to me like people here have been wondering and considering, not criticizing and condemning.
Speak for yourself. I certainly didn't get that impression from the things Erebus and Raven Greywind had to say on the matter.

Edited to add: Actually, I don't recall saying they were criticizing or condemning. However, I would say that in the above two cases, both verbs fit.

My point is, worry about your own spirit animals, instead of wasting time worrying about whether someone else's spirit animals are or aren't.

[Nighthawk]

And all things considered..above all.... the animal(s) chooses/choose you. Each animal has unique and distinct qualities...

[Phoenix Blue]

And all things considered..above all.... the animal(s) chooses/choose you. Each animal has unique and distinct qualities...
What difference does it make who chooses whom? Are humans not capable of seeking a particular spirit animal so that they can learn a particular lesson from it?

[WandererInGray]

Seems to me like people here have been wondering and considering, not criticizing and condemning.
*smiles* Maybe it's just me, but this quote from Raven seemed a bit condeming.


But they are allowed to believe whatever they wish as they say, cause that's what 'Wicca' is all about . :rolleyes:

[luna rising]

I don't know much about finding and learning from your totem -- it is not something that I have ever researched. Not because I think it's silly - which I do not - but because it's just not one of those things that never called out to me. But many years ago a friend of mine, who happened to be very into it, gave me a reading with totem cards and he told me that my totem was a Raccoon, which I think is pretty neat.

[Erebus]

Things that make me suspicious of the whole spirit/totem animal concept:

There are a million different species of animal in the Americas alone. But the same five or six keep cropping up to the exclusion of some of the less cute&fuzzy&wise ones.

It's also odd that almost everyone seems to have a spirit guide that's indigenous to North America... except where the critter was introduced to North America from Europe or elsewhere within the last 500-odd years, like the red fox, the horse, the sparrow, etc... but critters that haven't been introduced successfully don't get a mention. Nobody has a capybara as a totem spirit. Or a wallaby. Or a ground sloth. Or a lemur. Even the Australian pagans I've met tend to have wolves and bears and ravens, so it doesn't seem like folks get animals native (or at least present) in the area they grew up and/or currently live.

Similarly, lots of folks have a spider, but all other arachnids get overlooked entirely. I've only met one person who had an insect guide (grasshopper). Fish are pretty much unheard-of. The only birds that get to be spirit animals are ravens (another introduced species), crows, raptors, and songbirds. Ever heard of anyone with a wild turkey, a chicken, a ring-necked pheasant or even a peacock? Or a buzzard? How about an osprey or a pelican or an albatross?

The reason I'm so skeptical is that it seems to my eyes that people only get animal guides they really would LIKE to have. It's the same dozen-odd species for 95% of the pagans on the planet. Nobody gets an animal they've never seen on TV. The North American species bias is really suspicious. Especially considering the species that were introduced within the last 400-500 years are included, but other species from the country of origin that weren't introduced are not. That gets even less explainable considering most folks don't even live anywhere near the area the physical versions of their spirit animals inhabit, so continental boundaries shouldn't be that kind of a barrier (and aren't, for pagans outside of North America).

If animal guides take the form of an animal that a person is familiar with and/or makes certain associations with, then the guide really isn't that animal, so the entire point is moot. Is there a Spirit of Animal that just takes forms we recognize, or do actual animal spirits come to people? If it's actual animal spirits, why do some animals get such a vast caseload preference over others? Is it a volunteer position? Did the duck-billed platypi just say "Nah, we'd really rather not get in on this whole 'spirit animal' gig, thanks,"?

[mara]

We lived in this house for 3 years, moved away for 6 months or so and then moved back here in January. When we first moved here the Chickadees would almost land on you..they would even get into the house..since we've been back they don't come around anymore.I wonder if I was supposed to be paying attention to them when they were here. We have been having some rather unpleasant encounters with racoons lately- do encounters like these have meaning?

[Nighthawk]

Oh well.. I am outta here..

[Empress Stillnight]

Good question. I've known lots of folks with these totems. In fact, I felt pretty silly for the longest time, as mine life totem seems to be a popular domestic animal. I was always hesitant to speak up about it, because it seemed so stupid, until I delved a little deeper into mythology.

When I first started on my journey, I had encounters with snake many times in my dreams and my waking life. Raven and Spider also. They were trying to give me a wake up call that I wasn't walking on the right path for me, and that I needed to make some changes.

Once I realised that and started to make changes, they moved on, and I've had others come. Deer, Rabbit, Swan, Chicken, Bear, Salamander, and oddly enough, Wombat (I first met Wombat in a dream, and didn't even know they existed in waking life until I was helping my son with a school report on another animal and came across a picture of one on the internet, lol). But always, my life totem remains the same-Dog:)

[Aidron]

*smiles* Maybe it's just me, but this quote from Raven seemed a bit condeming.


That's because it was meant to be, but not at Wicca specifically, just you people out there who PM me professing your totem animal is the raven, have known this for years, yet know nothing about it and get mad and yell at me when I correct you.

Then again, I condemn anyone who PMs me with that kind of self-delusional misplaced anger.


Edited for clarity: My computer crashed before I could edit this, but the people who have PMed me over this matter always claim to be Wiccan and always profess that it is about doing whatever you want. I tend not to care about other people until they start cramming their mess down my throat.

[Aidron]

Things that make me suspicious of the whole spirit/totem animal concept:

There are a million different species of animal in the Americas alone. But the same five or six keep cropping up to the exclusion of some of the less cute&fuzzy&wise ones.

It's also odd that almost everyone seems to have a spirit guide that's indigenous to North America... except where the critter was introduced to North America from Europe or elsewhere within the last 500-odd years, like the red fox, the horse, the sparrow, etc... but critters that haven't been introduced successfully don't get a mention. Nobody has a capybara as a totem spirit. Or a wallaby. Or a ground sloth. Or a lemur. Even the Australian pagans I've met tend to have wolves and bears and ravens, so it doesn't seem like folks get animals native (or at least present) in the area they grew up and/or currently live.

Similarly, lots of folks have a spider, but all other arachnids get overlooked entirely. I've only met one person who had an insect guide (grasshopper). Fish are pretty much unheard-of. The only birds that get to be spirit animals are ravens (another introduced species), crows, raptors, and songbirds. Ever heard of anyone with a wild turkey, a chicken, a ring-necked pheasant or even a peacock? Or a buzzard? How about an osprey or a pelican or an albatross?

The reason I'm so skeptical is that it seems to my eyes that people only get animal guides they really would LIKE to have. It's the same dozen-odd species for 95% of the pagans on the planet. Nobody gets an animal they've never seen on TV. The North American species bias is really suspicious. Especially considering the species that were introduced within the last 400-500 years are included, but other species from the country of origin that weren't introduced are not. That gets even less explainable considering most folks don't even live anywhere near the area the physical versions of their spirit animals inhabit, so continental boundaries shouldn't be that kind of a barrier (and aren't, for pagans outside of North America).

If animal guides take the form of an animal that a person is familiar with and/or makes certain associations with, then the guide really isn't that animal, so the entire point is moot. Is there a Spirit of Animal that just takes forms we recognize, or do actual animal spirits come to people? If it's actual animal spirits, why do some animals get such a vast caseload preference over others? Is it a volunteer position? Did the duck-billed platypi just say "Nah, we'd really rather not get in on this whole 'spirit animal' gig, thanks,"?


I've noticed that, but not as much as you have, apparently. My two other totems are the tiger shark (there's a fish for ya) and the armadillo. Now, I am not too up to date on the study of these (they're rather new for me), but I do not believe the tiger shark is specifically native to just North America, or the Armadillo. In fact, I didn't even really have a tiger shark come to me, only images of a tiger and a great white (the same shark I've had nightmares over years). Took me awhile to put two and two together, but I remain skeptical about both of them for the most part still.

[Phoenix Blue]

Then again, I condemn anyone who PMs me with that kind of self-delusional misplaced anger.
Well, those folks you kinda have to deal with as they come. Besides, Wanderer probably knows far more about being Gray/Grey than you do; but she doesn't hold it against you, now does she? :p

[Boogins]

Okay, first off, my totem animal is a snowy owl. Secondly, my most vividly recalled past life involved dying at 37 in the gutters in a small English town along with the sewage tossed from windows. Nothing glamorous there.

[Aidron]

Well, those folks you kinda have to deal with as they come. Besides, Wanderer probably knows far more about being Gray/Grey than you do; but she doesn't hold it against you, now does she? :p


I don't PM her informing her the 'truth' about what the color grey represents and refuse to listen to anything she has to say either. If I did, I'd insist she slap me to knock me out of whatever state of lunacy I had entered into.

[Phoenix Blue]

I'd insist she slap me to knock me out of whatever state of lunacy I had entered into.
;) Which I'm sure she'd oblige.

[Krysta]

How would you find your spirit animal guide? Just curious. I did this thing on a website where you meditate and picture a river and then see what animals come out but that was my first time doing it. And I wasn't successful. Any help here would be appreciated.

:) Krysta

[Athena-Nadine]

OT:

*...shrugs...* It's no worse than the people who PM me telling me Athena is their Patron and asking me for spells to to use to ask Her for help on a final or something like that and then calling me mean and elitist when I correct their misinformation. Some people (thankfully, the minority) only seem to want their wrong information to be truth so badly that no one can get through to them.

Anyway, I don't have a totem animal. I never did. Many of my gods do, however. :)

[coyoger]

Generally speaking the Wolf and Raven are teachers. It has been my understanding that Wolf and Raven generally appear before any who start down the path to spirit guides as just that guides. As the person grows and learns to focus more on the self, the Wolf and Raven go away and welcome your true guide to you. They never go away, but they help you reach the next step. Some people keep wolf or Raven or both all their lives.

I hadn't hear of hawk that much though. I know friends who have less dangerous, non big and scary type guides. (That range from lady bugs to sea cows.)

But that is just what I think. and forgive me if this has been spoken before, i haven't read all the pages in this thread.

[Aidron]

Generally speaking the Wolf and Raven are teachers. It has been my understanding that Wolf and Raven generally appear before any who start down the path to spirit guides as just that guides. As the person grows and learns to focus more on the self, the Wolf and Raven go away and welcome your true guide to you. They never go away, but they help you reach the next step. Some people keep wolf or Raven or both all their lives.

I hadn't hear of hawk that much though. I know friends who have less dangerous, non big and scary type guides. (That range from lady bugs to sea cows.)

But that is just what I think. and forgive me if this has been spoken before, i haven't read all the pages in this thread.


In terms of keeping them all their lives, that is generally classified as a totem animal. One that stays with you for only a temporary amount of time is generally classified as a spirit guide, or a totem guide. The latter are quite common, sometimes changing for people with each passing year or month. It takes a great deal of study and attention on your part to notice them, however, and spend time working with something that may be temporary, though its lessons hopefully won't be.

As for how you find your totem animal, there are many methods. Try "Totem Magic" by Yasmine Galenorn, "Animal Speak" by Ted Andrews (I think), or simply do a search on them with Google.

[frigga]

A thought that Macha's post prompted...perhaps animal guides choose to take the form of these common animals because they are easier to follow? Some would have a very difficult time having a spider as an animal guide, especially if they're afraid of spiders which is rather common.
I was told that my guide was a spider**cringe** I am scared to death of spiders!! But when I see one, it reminds me to pay attention to something, thenI get my Hubby to shoo it out the door!
I think one doesn't choose a true totum or guide, they come to them, and maybe the times call for a lot of wolves, ravens, and hawks right now. I also see a similar trend in Gods and Goddesses. There's a lot of Morrigan's, Set's, and transformation Gods that have called on people, maybe it's just their time to shine! And what with the US and Britian over in the middle east fighting, it would make sense to have those figures prominent in our lives.

[Nighthawk]

Hmmm like perhaps there are more warriors when there is war time.... and less when there is not. Perhaps they know as well or better than we do.

[Ahautenites]

I believe the more "intimidating" deities and/or totem animals are there to teach us how to deal with our fears because they are inhibiting our personal growth. The other benefit is that these beings can teach us how to deal with the harsher realities of current events.

[mol]

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[Nighthawk]

Who, what?

[Empress Stillnight]

Things that make me suspicious of the whole spirit/totem animal concept:


"It's also odd that almost everyone seems to have a spirit guide that's indigenous to North America..."

Erebus,
When I was three, and living overseas, I was adopted by a dingo. We were very good pals (you might say in a way, I domesticated him, or more fitting-he chose to domesticate himself, lol), and he guarded me with his life, until he was killed and eaten by a Filipino.:( Before he was killed, he would patrol our yard every night. My mother told me that she was afraid of him at first, but let him stay because I loved him so much (I could crawl all over him and he never tried to hurt me), and also because we had had an intruder break into our home while we were there and attempt to steal things.

" The only birds that get to be spirit animals are ravens (another introduced species), crows, raptors, and songbirds. Ever heard of anyone with a wild turkey, a chicken, a ring-necked pheasant or even a peacock? Or a buzzard? How about an osprey or a pelican or an albatross?"

Yep, Chicken here, and Swan

"The reason I'm so skeptical is that it seems to my eyes that people only get animal guides they really would LIKE to have."

Believe you me, if I had a chosen mine, it would NOT be a dog:)

"It's the same dozen-odd species for 95% of the pagans on the planet. Nobody gets an animal they've never seen on TV. The North American species bias is really suspicious."

I dreamed about the wombat and I had no freaking clue what the animal was. In my dream, a young wombat exhibited the exact behavior that young wombats do in reality, and I had no idea about any of it until some months later, when I happend to come across a picture of one while helping my son do a school report on another animal and was then able to do research on it.

"That gets even less explainable considering most folks don't even live anywhere near the area the physical versions of their spirit animals inhabit, so continental boundaries shouldn't be that kind of a barrier (and aren't, for pagans outside of North America). "

I had Raven as a guide for awhile. I lived in the area that ravens inhabit.But judging from the wombat incident, there isn't any barrier for me:)

"If animal guides take the form of an animal that a person is familiar with and/or makes certain associations with, then the guide really isn't that animal, so the entire point is moot. Is there a Spirit of Animal that just takes forms we recognize, or do actual animal spirits come to people? If it's actual animal spirits, why do some animals get such a vast caseload preference over others? Is it a volunteer position? Did the duck-billed platypi just say "Nah, we'd really rather not get in on this whole 'spirit animal' gig, thanks,"?"

Good question. That's something to think about. It's the same question I wonder about Deity, also-do we create/choose the form of deity that most relates to our reality, or do deities choose us?

Thanks for you insight

Empress

[Nighthawk]

I know not of the deity, but as I said before the spirit animal chooses you, or does not. Or, maybe five or eight choose you.

[Phoenix Blue]

I know not of the deity, but as I said before the spirit animal chooses you, or does not. Or, maybe five or eight choose you.
Why? And why can it not be the other way around?

[MerrisHawk]

This tickles me, I seem to have hawk as a recent guide but I've had spider and domestic cat for years.
I'm afraid of spiders in a bad way so I work on overcoming my fears, cat I've learned to understand a little and hawk showed up around the time I started to believe in myself.

[Mab]

I'm convinced it's another manifestation of "Cleopatra Syndrome". Nobody has a turkey buzzard or a groundhog as a spirit animal for the same reason that nobody was ever Pope Pious or King John in a previous life.

LOL. Excellent point.

I've been told I was a town gossip in my previous life, but I've always thought I was a barmaid! 8O

Anyway........

it could be that these animals tend to be sacred to, or symbols of a lot of different dieties....maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think I have a spirit guide, but I have, lately, had a very physical crow following me around the south Denver area.....the same darned crow. And I see crows when sumpin's up.........but they aren't necessarily spirit guides...just messengers from The Morrigan.....sometimes a whop on the head to pay attention!

*shrug*

could just be that these majestic sounding creatures like bears & eagles & hawks & ravens symbolize a lot of different things & deities?

[Nighthawk]

PHoenix Blue.. I will not argue with you... I am not angered by you, but some of the things here are upsetting... I try to explain, but it is hard.


It is done through dreams or dream visions.. I guess I speak in the old vernacular... but it has never to my knowledge been done that way. They come to you. It is not like buying a car.
and people, what would be wrong with a hedgehog???
..Woodchuck/Marmot/Ground Hog's Wisdom Includes:
Sense of family and community

Connection to seasonal changes

Understands the power of cycles

Ability to hibernate (sleep) during hard times

Protection from floods

Ability to go underground when trouble arises

[Aidron]

It is done through dreams or dream visions.. I guess I speak in the old vernacular... but it has never to my knowledge been done that way. They come to you. It is not like buying a car.



That's funny since most Native Americans I've spoken too (and we have more than a few in the NC mountains) claim it is done through vision questing or physical tests. For example, if you are attacked by a bear and survive, that animal is henceforth your totem animal. Perhaps you are speaking of the new, not the old.

[Phoenix Blue]

PHoenix Blue.. I will not argue with you... I am not angered by you, but some of the things here are upsetting... I try to explain, but it is hard.
I understand. And I understand the fundamental differences between the traditions of Native American Shamans and between more modern-day Neopagans. Within the Native traditions, what you've said holds true; but many people who are bonded to animals in one way or another do not practice and are not bound by those traditions.


It is done through dreams or dream visions.. I guess I speak in the old vernacular... but it has never to my knowledge been done that way. They come to you. It is not like buying a car.
I don't think that's an accurate analogy in any event. My experience has been more like finding a college professor - I have, usually on a subconscious level, sought out animals with the intent of learning the lessons they exist to teach. It was how I came to Coyote some seven or eight years ago, and how I came to Phoenix about three years ago.

[Nighthawk]

So, you asked them specifically to help you ? Knowing that you wanted them and not another?

[Nighthawk]

Umm, Raven.. That is interesting... for I would think that would be more of a totem animal..Hmm, perhaps I have learned incorrectly.

[Aidron]

Umm, Raven.. That is interesting... for I would think that would be more of a totem animal..Hmm, perhaps I have learned incorrectly.


Um, I said that would be a totem animal. I had to re-check my post to make sure cause I didn't think you overlooked that so easily.

Learned differently, not incorrectly.

I'm not a Native American shaman, so I'm not an authority on the subject. I found mine through scrying and meditations.

[NivekDrgnMage]

Spirit Guides and Totem animals are two different things.

Totem Essences are designed simply to connect you more strongly with power, or totem, animals or creature beings you might be learning lessons from or drawn to spiritually. Although working with power animals is a strong force in Shamanism and in Native-American traditions, one does not have to walk those exclusive spiritual paths to learn from non-human teachers. It is said that even a stone is a teacher. If Hawk, or Eagle, Horse or Turtle, or others come to you in your dreamtime, your meditations, or your visioning, then perhaps they are asking you to connect with their natural wisdom and allow them to strengthen you on your path. If you find yourself fascinated by or drawn to a particular animal, maybe it is because that spiritual medicine wants to come alive in your life more fully.
So your animals may change from time to time.

Spirit Guides are discarnate beings that have chosen to assist us on our path of spiritual enlightenment and unfoldment; their evolution to higher consciousness is bound with our own, thus we have responsibility for each other. The more aware we become of these loving spirits, the more aware we become of our own thoughts, words, and actions; we are reflections of their efforts and they of ours. Though we are separate and individual, we are bound to the truth of our spiritual oneness. How better to be evidence of our relationship with God, Spirit, and Man with love, courage, and upliftment? Guides are a highly evolved world intelligence who administers guidance, protection, assistance, psychic information, and hidden knowledge to an Earthling; this intelligence has lived many incarnations and is more evolved than the person he/she serves (though angels are an exception to this rule as, in general, they have not incarnated on earth). The Guide does not intercede unless called by the Earthling (though there are exceptions).

The above two statements were taken from two websites if you wish to read more.
Spirit Guide Site (http:/www.spiritopics.net/aboutspiritguides.html)

Totem Animal (http://www.healthynewage.com/totem.html)

[Nighthawk]

Raven, sorry.. it is a very bad time for me right now... I did overlook.. I had been referring to spirit animals when I made my post.. not totem animals.. so, we are both kind of correct.

Nivek... very good research, thank you, and I will look at those.. good stuff..

[Saphra]

well, as for Spirit guide, i have a squirrel... not such a majestic creature, but hey, I didn't choose it, it chose me... if I had to pick it would have been a nice wolf or tiger... but a squirrel will do for me, tho they do make god awful racket at times.
I don't have a totem animal, never thought of having one either, perhaps I'll look into it at bit more.

[NivekDrgnMage]

:) any time I can help Oh btw My spirit partner (to stay on the safe side LOL) Has always been a Dragon.....I work with them all the time Hence Nivek Drgn Mage :)

[Empress Stillnight]

That's funny since most Native Americans I've spoken too (and we have more than a few in the NC mountains) claim it is done through vision questing or physical tests. For example, if you are attacked by a bear and survive, that animal is henceforth your totem animal. Perhaps you are speaking of the new, not the old.

LOL! I've been attacked by dogs numerous times-including as recently as last week (he drew blood, too) . I've been bitten by one dang dog twice.

I guess that clinches it. It's Dog for me:)

[frigga]

Hmmm like perhaps there are more warriors when there is war time.... and less when there is not. Perhaps they know as well or better than we do.
Or perhaps now is a time for rapid transformation through distruction of prior establishments and notions. Establishments being a metaphor there, don't want this to turn into a war debate!!
From what I know, the Wolve, Raven and Hawk fit pretty well into this catergory.

[Nighthawk]

I am wondering if they are signs..

[Black RiverWolf]

okay so i have been bitten by rats mice dogs horses spider and mosquitos. but my wolf has been there for me for years but i have a spider and a scropion and a frog (bouncy loud bugger). but out of all of them i do prefermy wolf. big black bugger who makes sure that if i do something stupid i learn from it right away.

[Linx]

My totem animal is a barn owl, and my spirit guide is an elephant... Just wanted to chime in :)

[Fairywolf]

My totum is a wolf. I have a dragonfly as a guide at this momunt. The wolf has always been there. I have no memory of a time that it wasn't there. I am not sure as to how many people have what as totums/guides. I don't pay attention to that kind of thing. As for myself, if someone wanted to think that I chose the wolf, by all means go for it. As to the fact that I don't care. But I don't really see the point in worring about others and what they choose or have chosen for them. :)

Sorry if the spelling is wrong. I have been up for a long time and my brain is fried :lol:

[Convallaria]

I have yet to find my animal guide.. though I've been tardy in asking for an introduction.

[mucgwyrt]

It's also odd that almost everyone seems to have a spirit guide that's indigenous to North America... except where the critter was introduced to North America from Europe or elsewhere within the last 500-odd years, like the red fox, the horse, the sparrow, etc... but critters that haven't been introduced successfully don't get a mention. Nobody has a capybara as a totem spirit. Or a wallaby. Or a ground sloth. Or a lemur. Even the Australian pagans I've met tend to have wolves and bears and ravens, so it doesn't seem like folks get animals native (or at least present) in the area they grew up and/or currently live.

I think you may have overlooked my post, where I mentioned that my previous spirit animal was a swallow - not indiginous to the US - and is now a white goose - again, not indiginous. They are both indiginous to the country in which I live, however.

My point is, you seem to be holding a very narrow, bitter view of the situation. Why? Why does a high frequency of bear totems offend you so much? Surely if whoever is learning something from the bear it shouldn't matter.

[NivekDrgnMage]

Well Macha that isn't really true. Here in Delaware we have Barn Swallows and Snow Geese, perhaps not indiginous but they sure like it here........:).

Back to Guides totems and Guardians....My Dragon Guardian didn't always appear to me as a Dragon. As a child I was caught several time by my parents talking to the shrubs outside of our home. When ask who I was talking to I told them my Friend (will leave name out) the gnome. As parents do they laughed and walked away. Well My Mother took on a different view when my little brother started to talk to the same shrubs and replied when asked "My friend the little Gnome that lives in the garden" I'm 18 years my brothers senior and was in the Army at the time he was 2 so he had no way of knowing that I had done the same thing so many years ago.
Just thought I would share..

[mucgwyrt]

Wow, that's really cool! :T

[NivekDrgnMage]

Ok back to topic.. I think it is our misconceptions of what each thing is. Sure I would perfer a Bear as protector rather then a toad.
I love Dophins for the animal it is, and hope one sees fit to protect me if drowning in the ocean, But it may be the honor we pay to the animals to feel a kinship to anyone type.
Look at the Pagan path and familiars, I see more whitches with Black cats as familiars as anyother animal. I have 10 cats, 2 of them are Black and sisters; as with most witches I really wanted them to be familiars. Well that didn't work out, but found my familiar in a little snow shoe siamees, who insisits I'm his mother and trys to nurse on the back of my neck every night while I try to sleep.
As far as guides I have dreamed and had seen in different states of being, different animals. It depended what it was I was looking for or needed. Toads, turtles, skunks, baggers. I have walked and talked with snakes, cats, dogs and many others. The point is each time they helped me with what it was I needed at the time, if it was what I was looking for or the fact they knew that I needed it and was unaware I did myself.
So I think it boils down to what one believe that is the main factor.

Just my 2 Pents worth.:D

Bright Blessings

[Nighthawk]

You have made me think.... and as Phoenix Blue said yesterday...."Why not choose them?" Perhaps I misunderstood a background idea or theme here. I said they choose you .. true as far as I know.. What I may not have looked at is.... so.. do we program our dreams and all.? Yes, sometimes we do.. knowingly or not.... I am growing. Good! Thank you.

[Arinya]

This has been a fun conversation thus far folks, thankyou! I never considered being able to choose them, but I suppose that sounds logical if there is a certain lesson you know you need to learn and you've done research already to know who is best to teach it...hmm. And that would explain why there is a high number of certain animals and lower number of others, perhaps those more "popular" animals have a more general lesson to teach while the other animals have a more detailed lesson to teach. Interesting thought.

[DixieWitch]

As far as a guide or guardian goes, mine is a ladybug!!! My totem is a cat. I think it's time I honor both on my altar, once it's put up!!

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

My fetish (sorry I grew up in the West around the Zuni's) for this life is the Rabbit. He is so different from what people generally view him to be, but most don't bother getting to know him because they think of Rabbit as weak and fearful. He has always been a part of my life.

More recenltly Stag has appeared in my life, and I believe he is a more temporary guide, but there nontheless.

[charmedkisses1]

My guess would be that a lot of people who wish to have animal guides wish to have one that sounds magestic or powerful or that has meaning behind the animals form. This of course is only my guess and is exactly that a guess.
that's what i think too :cutie:

[Lunacie]

Reading this discussion has certainly made me think a bit deeper about what spirit or totem guides are and how we chose them, or are chosen. Isn't that what discussions like this are all about? I may not have agreed with all the ideas posted here, but I believe that the people who posted them had the right to share their ideas and get some feedback, even if I thought they were wrong but they never see things my way.

The thought about some critters being messengers of the gods rather than an actual spirit guide or totem animal is something I have wondered about ever since the owl first called to me. Literally. From a tree in my back yard right in town. Which had never happened in the previous 10 years of living there, and never happened again. I think it may have been Athena's way of saying "hello, dear". The message that owl gave me three years ago was certainly clear and very much appreciated. So maybe the owl isn't a spirit guide or animal totem for me, but a messenger from Athena when she needs to get my attention. I've read a lot here that will help me think my way through figuring whether I have spirit guides or animal totems or messengers from the gods. A lot to think about indeed.