Help: what do you do if you mother is legally insane but refuses to get help???

[Lucidia]

My mother is schitzofrenic(sp?). If you are familiar with this mental illness, you know already that it causes you to see/hear/feel/expeience things are aren't there. Many people suffering from it feel there are HUGE conspiracies after them... they clearly "remember" being tortured, raped, attacked, chased, insulted, etc, when NONE of it happened.

In the case of my mother, she constantly talks to herself. Sometimes she screams and breaks things, but then denys it. we find broken glass all over the house (obviously from glasses hitting the walls.). The cats are all SPOOKED (cats and other pets often sense illness in humans, and even other animals), and it seems like they hide more often (might be the heat, but our big boy Tuesday, has been hiding in the closet again, something he did when he first came into our family, before he trusted us, and the little persian hides in the bathroom a lot).

She has been hospitalized a bunch of times. The police were called by our neighbors once, and she got carted off to the hospital for like two weeks. WE don't have medical insurance, and I'm gonna move out soon anyway (being married, and poor, forced to have NO privacy living with my parents, not to mention the railroaded apartment where my mother HAS to walk through our room to leave the house... not fun), so soon i'm not gonna be there to keep trying to get her to find some gov. aid or charity care or clinic or something.

To further convey why this is such a problem: part of her delusions usually involve people breaking in and stealing things. Of couse, no one actually breaks in. She just throws things away or leaves them outside in the hallway or by the neighbors door. She once took ALL her jewlery, and left it by the neighbors door. They were in france (and therefore NOT home). She claimed that they threatened her and threatened me, and she had to give them all her jewelry to keep them from harming me or something. She also made up ficticious names for them. I recently found letters she wrote (which my father says she has been doing for nearly 20, if not 25 years), saying that the neighbors, and i quote "sliced her scalp with a ray gun" and "are going to kill me do and autopsy check for ray gun slices". Apparently, the neighbors raped me, and my father... and a whole host of other bizzare sexual things happened.

To make things worse even further, when my hubby moved in to my "room", his stuff started disappearing too.. Once, it was his time sheets (he's doing messenger work since the programming industry is a bit dead right now), which he NEEDED to get paid. If he wouldn't have found them (under her rug, they were sticking out just a LITTLE bit and he noticed them), we wouldn't have been able to get to work for the next week (my check already spent on bills). My train ticket thing was gone, so I lost 3 days worth of transportation that was DESPERATELY important since i'm in such a bad financial situation. All these things disappear when no one is home... and things are moved around.. and she of course claims that she didn't throw anything away, or move anything.

Lately, she hasn't been buying food (not that I wouldnt' buy my own food, but i'm broke, and my parents are being pretty cool about things, but my father can't do the shopping since he works all week and can only go out on the weekends, so my mother is in charge of picking up the groceries) for any of us.. maybe just enough to get buy, but buys herself expensive food, like those foo-foo frozen dinners that she can't buy for anyone else in the house cause she has no money.. hmm...

I could go on forever. The biggest problem is convincing her to get some kind of help. there is a clinic (where i go for stuff cause i'm kinda financially desperate) where she can go but SHE has to go.. i can't go with her (i work during business hours), and I can't go FOR her... they won't come get her... she has to do it herself.

But she doesn't even think shes crazy.

I'm just afraid for her.. she's done some insane things.. like cut herself up, and break things. Some of our neighbors aren't nice people.. and being the minority 'caucasians' in the nieghborhood full of crack dealers isn't going to help her if she keeps screaming things at 6:30 am out the window at the various nutjobs next door who already threatened us.

Oh foo, what a day. I can't take it anymore really. too much stress.... anyone else ever been in this situation?

[Danustouch]

Honey...I'm SOOOOOOOO sorry that you have to deal with this. It seems to me, that perhaps you need to contact a lawyer. It sounds to me that she is a danger to herself. So the choice needs to be taken out of her hands. I'm afraid that you will have to prove her "incompetant"...and have her hospitalized. There is public aide available for such situations. I would consult a lawyer about this. I'm sooooooo sorry. If you need to rant..just AIM me.

[Lucidia]

yeah well i sort of agree. what honestly needs to happen is she needs to admit her problem, so she will qualify for gov. aid... like social security or something.. cause i know people that are clinically depressed or bipolar and they get a check every two weeks, cause they honestly can't hold a job.

its' just tough.. if only she'd admit maybe she should at least see a therapist *sighs*

i might IM ya later, it's just hard, trying to work and talk at the same time... grrr...

[Danustouch]

I know hon...

I just don't honestly think that she can admit her problem. Because of the nature of her condition....I dont' see it as being possible for her. That is why I think you need to get a lawyer involved. The lawyer could help you get a competency case..the decision would then be out of her hands.

AIM me if you need to...I know you're busy. But if you need to..I'm around.

[Lilu]

I'm so sorry to see you going through this Lucidia. I hope that you can figure out something to do soon. I would have to agree with Danustouch about getting a lawyer involved. If she isn't going to admit to her problems, and she's obviously doing some weird stuff, then you are going to have to be the one to step forward and "have her committed" so to speak. :( Gosh I feel for you girl, I wouldn't like to be in that situation.

If you need to chat you can AIM me too (aaerindanann)
or ICQ 13375447 or yahoo - lilu_undercurrents

Hang in there!!! If you want me to do a reading PM me and I'll see if I can give you some guidance through the scarabs.

Lilu

P.S. Maybe you should look at getting a lockbox or something so that she can't hide timesheets and important documents again.
:confused:

[Swanspirit]

My heart goes out to you completely.....
My younger sister is paranoid schizophrenic, very high functioning but really not in this world with us. She has progressed from being occasionally ill from her teens, and early twenties when she had her first psychotic break, to being chronically ill, and sometimes dangerous. I cannot tell you ( but you probably already know ) the heartbreak of watching my beautiful baby sister grow into young woman hood and then watching as she slowly became so ill, and this was a young woman who graduated from Notre Dame College,was in the drama club there ;married to a top graduate M.D. of Johns Hopkins ...and had a full and promising life ahead of her......
She has been in and out of hospitals more times than I can count, some of the best psychiatric hospitals in the country. The police have been called numerous times , because she attacked my mother, when she was still alive, my brother, and my self once with a knife. That made it possible for us to get a court order for her to take her medicine, because she actually had to be incarcerated for those events. I know it appears as if I am sitting here calmy typing all this out , but beleive me when I tell you this has been agony for myself and my family. I think the knowledge that my sister would never be well played a part in my mothers death.
Sometimes the psych hospitals put people on this merry-go-round of admitting them when they are acutely ill, and a danger to themselves and others, and get them on a med regime , and discharge them ( BECAUSE INSURANCE WONT PAY ANY LONGER)knowing full well they will not be compliant with their meds and then the family has to suffer while their loved deteriorates all over again and becomes dangerous , and then they have to call the police and get an emergency petition to have them admitted again.
Your mom probably isnt competetent to take her meds or even be aware she is so ill. Many other people go into denial besides alcoholics and other addictions.
People with plain old diabetes, other chronic illnesses and many many times anyone diagnosed with a mental illness ,,,, heck I have Seasonal Affective Disorder.. and am usually halfway into it before I realise in the winter....
Can you get Social Service involved, or even Adult and Disabled Protective Services might be an avenue..... Keep me posted , sometimes they can be a great help , and why isnt her doctor admitting her when he kows she is a danger to herself and others? I KNOW it is excruciatingly hard , to call the police on somesone who is mentally ill and suffering, but they are usually very understanding, and you have to keep YOU and her safe.
She cant admit her problem, she isnt that connected to reality to be able to ....and until she gets on meds she cant function, because she will continue to hallucinate, and display psychotic behaviors.
I hold you in my heart......
Swannie

[Amora]

I had a similar situation with my uncle. He too is schizophrenic. He was arrested several times for making threats to people but was not given any help until he dropped a package off at the airport claiming it was a bomb intended for the FBI who in his mind was "after him". Thankfully it was not a bomb at all just a box wrapped in paper. He was eventually given medication and released. Of course he feels he does not need medication so he stopped taking it. He arrived last Christmas at my house which is 5 hours from where he lives, he kidnapped my brother at gunpoint then dropped him back off an hour later and drove home. The cops would do nothing other then ticket him because no one got hurt. That's not the point! The point is he needs help and he won't get it until he kills someone. We have a policy to not open the door if he comes by. It's just really frustrating.

[Lucidia]

yeah, and the situation gets worse:

my father refuses to do anything, cause he's gonna end up having to pay for it, and well.. we're not rich.

we have no insurance
and we can't afford a lawyer

indeed, she thinks there is no problem.

at one point last year she ran away to chicago(she has has the strangest obsession with going there for years), spending most of the food/household items on a one way ticket (she's not coherent enough to realize you can't go to chicago and back for 75 bucks), and then got stuck there. She called a few times, and I refused to talk to her and eventually so did my father. She called my uncle and he bought her a ticket to get home, but they don't realize how serious the situation is. they take her side, of course, but they haven't really MET her... so they don't understand.

she made up fake side effects when she was last on medication. I don't understand it at all. she sleeps on the floor (next to, rather than ON her bed) in a fetal position, and she sleeps during strange hours. She put a whole mess of whatever random household cleansers she could find in her hair once.. and her hair was kinda like a clumped up knot on her hair... sort of looked like sand at the beach when you use a small bucket as a mold for a castle... just smaller and made of hair. She made excuses like "i put too much conditioner in my hair" but she wrote that someone who was "torturing her" while she was in the bathroom for hours put "folic acid" in her hair and it burned through her body and gave her gas or something. She's always stomping around, and randomly drops things, like she's always on the verge of complete panic attacks. If I, or anyone, tries to talk to her, she either says 'yeah, you're right", "i'm sorry", "i know", "yeah" and if you ask her if she's listening, she'll repeat you, but you know she's not really "there".

my father is getting pretty fed up.. and is eventually going to have her put away, or he's just gonna kick her out of the house... i feel so bad.. but i'm torn.

On one hand, she's sick and doesn't realize it. It's so sad.

On the other hand, being in control of my faculties and mind, I dont' understand and i am unable to therefore empathize this "hallucinatory" state she is always in. It angers me that she won't get the help she needs. So I tend to get angry at her, even though she doesn't deserve anger at all. But being nice to her doesn't do anything either. It's really difficult.

What was the hardest to realize, is that she was NEVER sane. my father admitted to me that she has always been this way. I now view my whole life a different way. I used to think my parents slept in different rooms because my father was a "horrible" man, because my mother always told me that he was really mean. She would always say the worst things about him.. so I grew up thinking my mother was the heroine, and my father was the evil monster.

Now I see things differently. My father didn't want to spoil me, cause he didn't want me to grow up like that. He wasn't emotional, because he's just not a very emotionally expressive person (he's really into martial arts, and he's been involved in the military/coast guard, so he's kinda disciplined). He never let us starve and we've always had a place to live. The only times he's gotten angry at my mother, now i realize, it's because she needs help, and he loves her, but she wont' get the help she needs and he can't force her to do it.

My whole life, I pushed myself away from forging any kind of bond with my father because of my mother. Now that i'm ready to leave my family and start my own, I find out that I wasted 20 years that I could have learned SO much from him... and meanwhile, I can't even leave with a clear mind since I don't know what's going to happen to my mother.

ugh. what a world.

thanks for all your kind words and support, i really need it. My hubby's mom was schitzo too.. but she took her meds and she went to therapy... he doesn't relate as well as I thought that he would... so it's hard to talk about it with him sometimes.. cause he thinks i should be calm... but its so stressful and i have a horrible temper...

[Illuminatus]

Does she respond posatively to any sort of medication?

If she does, my reccomendation is to force treatment upon her. Yeah, I know, that's cruel, but like the song says, you have to be cruel to be kind. If she forces these problems upon you, wittingly or un, you really have no choice but to respond in force.

I'm not advocating you hit her or anything, but to restrain her in difficult times, and actually MAKE her take her medicine by sheer brute force and/or trickery. Assuming she responds posatively to medication, which was my initial question. Is that an option?

Alternatively, if this isn't an option, focus your efforts on moving out. Well, do that anyway, but it should be first priority if you're in a bad situation.

But remember that this isn't your fight, it's really your fathers. You were just born into it. It's really his responsibility to take care of her, he's the one that took the vow. In sickness and in health and all that crap. Also, become good at hiding things.

[Lucidia]

*nods to kenny*

well.. we can't afford the medication.. the gave her only two coupons for free prozac.. and she refused to take it anyway...

she's nuts. and you're right.. it is kinda my father's problem at this point.. i still feel bad...

[random]

Im sorry that this is happening... but I honestly don't know....

-christy-

[Semele]

Ok first of all...you have my heartfelt sympathy and concern, prayers, anything I can offer you.

Second, Prozac is not a recommended treatment for Schitzophrenia, not that I have ever heard anyway. Sounds like she needs an evaluation and in house treatment. Has she ever been officially diagnosed as being Schitzophrenic?

There is help availiable to her at no cost to you all. I would suggest you contact your local health department or phsychiatric services. Sadly enough, the majority of homeless people suffer from some form of mental illness and simply cannot function in society. No, she will not likely admit a problem, because in her mind the problem is with everyone else around her. Does she ever stare off into space for long periods of time or say words that don't seem to make sense?

Here in Tulsa we have a moblie outreach unit consisting of therapists, nurses, doctors, etc, all volunteer, who go out and find those in need on the streets etc. They get them evaluated and get medication for them. They often have to search in slums and squates to find these people just to give them meds and food. The point is there are people out there to help you. Just invest a little time and find them. YOu may have to speak to several different people before you find the one that is willing to help you.

Also I would say talk to your dad. tell him how you feel, especially the part about you just realising how great he is. He is likely harboring a lot of guilt over the whole situation and letting it get this far. The two of you together should be able to get her some help.

Good luck sweetie...let me know if i can help.

[slvr_phoenix]

That must be a difficult thing to deal with. :(

Unfortunately, I can't really offer much in the way of advice or answers other than that there should be someone willing to help if you look hard enough. I'd hope so at least. It would be sad if there wasn't.

There are a lot of things that I'd like to say, but I'm not sure how to put them. Such as I hope that you and your father can get to know each other better. It must be hard on him too. He can probably use all of the love he can get right now.

And it's not your responsability to take care of her. If you don't think you can handle it then you probably shouldn't. But maybe it would help to think of all of the times when you were growing up that your mother helped you, such as things like keeping you from walking down the stairs when you were first learning to walk. Even when you didn't know any better, you could have hurt yourself anyway. And it was her love for you that kept you safe. Now that she's in a condition where she doesn't know any better, it could be your chance to return that love. It might not be your responsability to take care of her, but you could help and give her love when she needs it the most anyway.

I hope that came out right. And I hope you can find the strength that you need to handle it well.

[Lucidia]

i wouldn't have made this post saying she has the illness if she wasn't actually diagnosed with it.. wouldn't want to be the boy who cried wolf or anything. i don't take mental illness lightly.. especially after everything i've seen

prozac, strangely enough, and mind you i didn't believe it at first either, since it's primarily an anti-depessant... is apparently now being used to treat it.. although i don't understand what it was supposed to do.

problem is, she won't admit there is a problem. no doctor or nurse or anyone is gonna convince her that she's crazy. she won't see them and has a HUGE stack of excuses, as well as a huge stack of bills, and she uses those as reaons she refuses to get further treatment. plus, she claims that she's fine... and since she's taking "st. johns wart" she feel much better, but she has in fact gotten worse.

and as far as protecting her... i can't protect her from the voices in her head, and i can't be there 24/7 to watch her like a baby, and she's not a baby, and she'd resent it. it's probably why she hates being in the hospital.

just imagine what that's gotta be like..i mean... you are constantly being taunted and yelled at and tortured... and no one believes you... and they call you "crazy" which is generally a negative thing.

i try and tell her that it's OK that she is experiencing these things but she's really far gone now and she really doesn't communicate about this particular subject.

as far as my father and I... sometimes rifts are hard to seal. I don't know if i'll ever be "close" him.. but my hubby and him get along rather well so there is still a chance that maybe there will be some kind of bond that I can forge because of that. it's disturbing.. he gets along better with my father than I do.. but then again.. maybe it's cause his father left him and his mother when he was like 5. well that's another issue entirely, i'll try not to get off topic or anything.

i'm gonna try and talk to my father about it again this weekend.. but he's really tired and fed up.. and there is nothing either of us can do personaly to help her.. and it's scary putting someone you love into the hands of strangers... espeically in psychiatric cases.. since they can certainly harm someone who is "delusional" and if they tried to report the offence, who would believe someone who was admitted to the place for being attacked by aliens in the ceiling anyway.

ugh.. thanks again for all yoru info and comments. i really do appreciate it... this isn't easy at all

[Swanspirit]

The funny thing is that YOU might be the "buffer" that is keeping your dad from seeing or experiencing how bad the situation is with your mom. I did that for my mother for years.... Every time there was something "wrong with your sister" my mom would call me , I would drop what ever I was doing including missing work and run to intervene and help, calling doctors and social workers,giving my family emotional support what EVER!......
going to get a JUDGE on a SUNDAY to have her Emergency Petitioned to a hospitl after she attacked my mother with a knife and threw pottery all over the house and busted in the front door when my mom tried to keep her out, you name it.... I did it for YEARS...... Finally when I couldnt take it anymore.... and half the time my mom would do what ever was recommended by the doctors for a while ..... and not let her live there , and make her function on her own,, my sister would induce enormous guilt in my mother and she would let her come back ......starting the whole merry go round again.
Only when I finally removed myself from the equation, the rest of my family did what they had to do to take care of her and put her in the hospital when she needed to go .... and trust me they DO know what to do ......I know its scary but there are NEW meds that almost work miracles. When my mother died my sister decompensated very badly..... and focused on me ......who tried to help her for years and years ......as the focus of her anger..... and ended up trying to kill me. She went to jail.... and was court ordered to take her meds, or be permanently confined. I still think she is dangerous, and you read stories every day about paranoid delusional schizophrenics killing people. I hope to Goddess that never happens to my sister.
But you need not feel guilty for wanting a life for yourself . By all means go and do what you need to do.... and let the rift with your father heal over time, it might be the best thing you can do for your mom.
Love and Light
Swannie