Hecate as your patron(matron) Goddess?

[Hellenic_Witch]

I would like to hear from those who have Hecate as their matron Goddess? How did she call you? I would be interested in anything you can share. Also, in addition to Hecate, who is your Patron God??

[WiccanGoddess]

It's different for each person. The Goddess can come to you in many ways. It really depends on whether or not you believe. Me, Hecate came to me in a dream. :D

[The High Queen of Faerie]

though hecate is not as of yet one of my patrons, she came to me in dream and gave me a test. :3

[Hellenic_Witch]

though hecate is not as of yet one of my patrons, she came to me in dream and gave me a test. :3
OK, I am curious -- can you tell us what the test is?????

[LisaT4P]

Hecate came to me in several ways, I believe I have posts about it someplace, I'll see if I can find some. Actually (and some may disagree with me) but Hecate is synonymous with Cerridwen for me, she appears with her cauldron and with long white braided white hair, but she prefers to be called Hecate. :)

I has Horus come to me during a meditation, but I consider him to be more of my hubby's patron than mine. I'm not sure if mine has found me yet.

[Shadowolff]

I just learned that, according to one source, my birth name is "possibly derived from Hecate" -- gotta love Her!

[Hellenic_Witch]

The reason for my question is because I feel so drawn to Hecate as if she is pulling me to her somehow. I asked her for a sign and the next day my husband and I found a 6 ft. snake in our yard -- we do not live in an area where snakes would usually be, so it was a bit unusual -- our 6 year old son was THRILLED to see the snake, while I, of course, was wondering if this was my sign -- I am so new to Paganism (about 8 months) so I thought it may be too soon to identify myself with a patron god or goddess, so I really wanted to hear other people's experiences. I know everyone's experiences are different, but I find them all interesting nonetheless!

[Theres]

I am so new to Paganism (about 8 months) so I thought it may be too soon to identify myself with a patron god or goddess, so I really wanted to hear other people's experiences. I know everyone's experiences are different, but I find them all interesting nonetheless!

very wise.
there's no need to rush into the whole 'patron' thing... it'll happen when it happens.
but having said that, there is also no minimum time limit, so you definitely should heed any sign that comes your way (and the snake is one of Her symbols).


my experience? oh dear...

i first met Hekate many years ago. She came to me during meditations, and i soon began to realise that although many deities seemed to show up during this early 'seeking' period, She was always one of them.

the meditation involved a cave which i found out in the woods. as i entered i was aware of a cavern within, and here i found the Maiden (usually Artemis/Diana, Blodeuwedd, etc).
yadda yadda yadda, and i was on my way deeper into the cave. soon i found another cavern where the Mother was waiting (Isis, Brigid, etc).
then i proceeded deeper until i came to the cavern where the Crone sat. this was ALWAYS Hekate, and She sat near a pool... actually more like a cauldron built into the rock. i would ask questions, and She would answer mysteriously. and then She would always end by asking if i wanted to dive into Her cauldron.
now i had done just enough study to believe that this might be some kind of initiation, or a death/rebirth experience, so i would always (politely) say "no thank you". and Her reply was invariably "that's fine, the time will come", and then this disturbing, knowing smile. what a nice, Grandmotherly type Goddess She seemed.
this happened many times over a period of about two years, a period where i felt no terribly deep connection to any particular deity.
then about 8 or 9 years ago my wife and i attended a large Pagan festival for the Fall Equinox. there were many workshops happening, and i attended a few. one of them was a healing ritual in which Hekate was to be invoked. understand that i generally do NOT participate in such 'inner healing' kinda things, but She intrigued me, so off i went.
during the group meditation, i saw myself floating above a glowing pentacle where it seemed there was a ritual happening. i thought "cool! i can just float here and watch and learn, and the person doing the ritual won't even know i'm here". just then She looked up and right through me! i immediately began to fall, at which point i broke off the meditation.
that was MUCH more than i had anticipated, but there was more to come.

we pitched our tent near the main fire, so i could hear the drumming all night long. the long shadows of the dancers moved back and forth across the walls of our tent, and was quite cool.
normally i would have stayed up very late, sitting around the fire watching the dancers and listening to the drums. but this night i felt compelled to retire early, although the Dragonfly said she was gonna stay up and dance.
but as soon as i got into my tent it became a cave, and there She was. i was scared immediately, i guess because i'd never walked into my tent and found a Goddess before! and She looked right through me again, and said "I TOLD you the time would come!"
i spent the next three days (actually it was a little over an hour) being torn to pieces by something i absolutely didn't understand. this was weird, and i wanted out, but i just couldn't leave. this was no kindly old Grandmother!
finally i crawled out during a lull, and staggered over to the fire. i saw my wife dancing, and when she saw me she looked concerned. i guess it showed. then i saw my teacher across the fire... she'd make everything better! but without a word between us (without either of us moving, in fact) she seemed to tell me that my time had come and to get my ass back in there and deal with it.
how could she be so cold?
anyway, i REALLY didn't want to go back into the tent/cave, but it seemed i had no choice. so in i went, and there She was. "did that help?" She asked. i replied that it hadn't, and She smiled that damned smile again. things proceeded as before for another couple of days (about another hour, in fact). then suddenly, it was over!
i thought about going back out to the fire, but i didn't want anyone to see me like this. and besides, i was totally drained.
so that was my 'crossroads'.

the next day i was sure it had all been a bad dream. nothing in my experience (and i was 40 at the time) related to any of this at all. but when i ran into my teacher for our usual tarot draw the next morning, she asked me if i had gotten everything sorted out with Her.
so it had happened! but how the hell did she know?

after we got home i made a point to learn as much as i could about this mysterious Hekate Goddess. i started to dump all of those modern descriptions of Her as a Crone (She is not), as a strictly chthonic deity, as some kind of master of the Hell Hounds, etc. all that MacBeth stuff.
but although i always felt deeply connected to Her after that night, i still didn't feel that She (or anyone else) was my 'patron'. and while She never came to me again like She did that night, i always understood that Her nature was such that She might. ugh!
i completely understand the value of this experience, but i honestly hope i never have such an epiphany again!

about five years went by, and i got into a car accident which permanently wrecked my back. i was (and still am) in constant pain. for almost two years i couldn't even work. during this time i started getting a bit depressed... i wasn't used to being helpless.
so at one point i made a conscious decision to walk away from Hekate (politely, of course) and find a new, more nurturing Goddess. i thought that perhaps a more Motherly archetype would snap me out of my funk (as if these things are ours to choose).
i tried to work with Brigid, but i seemed more connected to Isis. and yet neither of these two really felt right. i was trying to force a connection where one didn't exist naturally.
during this time Hekate had almost completely disappeared from my meditations (where as She had always been there before).
but after about 4 months She returned, asking if i had "gotten it out of my system yet?"
wtf!!!
after that i could never dream, meditate, or anything without Her being there.
i asked my teacher what the difference was between a calling and an obsession. she told me that i should find that out myself by working with Hekate through the wheel of the year, and so i spent the next year and a day trying to experience this Goddess through the changing cycles. it wasn't easy, believe me. there are SO many misconceptions about Hekate that make it hard to see Her as a Goddess of the Spring, etc. but i found Her there!
at the end of that time i wrote a Samhain ritual for our very large group gathering, and at the end of that i knew that She and i were tied together for eternity (a word i DON'T use lightly!). and oddly enough, within two weeks of this ritual i got a job... making gravestones! (tell me She doesn't have a sense of humor!)

Hekate is now my patron (although i hate that word!), and i am Her priest. and next January i will be initiated as such (which will be 5 years since my 'second degree').
i tell you, this is NOT where i thought i'd be all these years later. but what're ya gonna do, huh? ;)


(PS; i have rarely told this story before, and never in a public forum. i hope this helps you with your quest Sidhe).

[Hellenic_Witch]

Thank you so much for sharing, Greenman. I find your story beautiful and so helpful. I am very drawn to Hecate. But since this is all relatively new to me, I want to learn as much as I can. I assume that building a relationship with a God or Goddess takes time and trust, just as our human relationships do. But there are times, when I (like a lot of other new Pagans) want to just jump in and can get carried away. It seems as if people are rather quick to identify themselves with a patron because they think its "cool", but I guess it's a bit like falling in love -- you'll know when it happens, you'll know when its right.

[LisaT4P]

Thank you for sharing your story so openly, Greenman.

Namaste (a word I don't use lightly)

Lisa :)

[Theres]

Thank you so much for sharing, Greenman. I find your story beautiful and so helpful. I am very drawn to Hecate. But since this is all relatively new to me, I want to learn as much as I can. I assume that building a relationship with a God or Goddess takes time and trust, just as our human relationships do. But there are times, when I (like a lot of other new Pagans) want to just jump in and can get carried away. It seems as if people are rather quick to identify themselves with a patron because they think its "cool", but I guess it's a bit like falling in love -- you'll know when it happens, you'll know when its right.

you seem to have a very good handle on this. if i can help in any way, please feel free to contact me.

:)

[Caffiend]

Thank you Greenman for sharing your story. I believe She is also my patron/matron. But it's in the early stages, so I'm trying to learn more about Her and myself. She contacted me in a dream twice. Guess I wasn't listening the first time. ;)

[Blondie]

I'm definitely glad I found this post!

Firstly, I've always been intrigued by Hecate. But ever since I was involved with Paganism/Witchcraft my bond with Aradia had always been stronger. But as of late, I still love Aradia, but the bond seemed to have been fading a tad.

Lately, a whirlwind of change has been stormed through my life. I'm on rise in my industry, I just got out of an abusive relationship and I'm relocating in two months. LOTS OF CHANGE!

A few weeks ago I was in that werid state - asleep, but not fully. I was concious of my surroundings. The name Hecate kept repeating itself in my head. Out of no where. I couldn't think of anything else. I also got images of a dark hooded mother/crone like woman standing in the night. The vision/name wouldn't stop. It was intense and must have lasted about an hour.

So I've been reading skims and skims of information on her, and talking to her freely a lot. Just her presence seems to be helping a lot with the changes in my life.

[Theres]

above anything else, Hekate is a limnal Goddess... the Goddess of transitions and change.

as the Goddess of the crossroads, decisions and change are Her realm (which path will you choose?). but this also includes the transition point between life and death, and between death and life. it is this latter that gets confused most often, i think. people see Her in this aspect and immediately associate Her with the strictly underground Goddesses (Persephone, etc), which probably explains how She has been 're-classified' in modern time to be a Crone. since She deals with death, She must fit into that category. but nothing could be further from the truth. in ancient Greece (and later in Rome) She was NEVER depicted as anything but a young woman.
you might also find Her listed as a 'fertility' Goddess because of the limnal aspects of birth. but this isn't really a fair or accurate description either, imo.

even Her 'New Moon' associations have become a bit distorted. the ancient Greeks saw the New Moon as the beginning of each month. as such, this beginning was a limnal point also, and THAT is why Hekate was associated with the New Moon. the last night of any month is Hekate's Night.

[Hellenic_Witch]

Greenman, do you know of any books about Hekate that you could recommend? I would like to study everything I can find about her. I have visited all of my local bookstores, and everything I have found is pretty general. I will probably have to purchase something online.

[Theres]

there are a few, but you'll probably have to get them online.

Robert von Rudloff's 'Hekate in Ancient Greek Religion' (http://www.azuregreen.us/product_info.php?products_id=4636) is a good overview of Her original Greek aspects, quoting the writers of the time and presenting a good picture of Her, imo. the only problem i have with this book is that the author seems a bit timid about drawing inferences from the data he presents. but it's a good, easy read.

Hekate Soteira; A Study of Hekate's Role in the Chaldean Oracles and Related Literature (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555404278/104-0648406-4704759?v=glance) by S.I Johnston is excellent, although rather specialised.
the Chaldean Oracles was a Platonic system of magick from roughly the 2nd century CE which viewed Hekate as the 'World Soul'. this is not a system i suscribe to personally, but this view of Hekate is fascinating, and i probably got more out of this book than any other.
it's not an easy read however.

Demetra George has an interesting chapter on Hekate in her book 'Mysteries of the Dark Moon' (ISBN 0062503707). this focusses more on Her 'Phosphoros' aspect, the torch-bearing guide who lights the dark inner places. here's a link (http://www.angelfire.com/biz/MysticalArts/Hekate.html). this book (as does von Rudloff) also tries to explain the rather convoluted association between Hekate and Artemis.

hope this helps. ;)

[mara]

About two years ago I became very interested in her..It's a long boring story, but fear has always been a huge issue in my life, and I feel that Hecate helps me with it. At first I found her frightening, but I was so drawn to her that I couldn't
turn away. I feel that she encourages me to sort of rip my life down to the core and start over, and to keep doing it until I have it right- if that makes sense. Anyway, I have dreams of her too,I don't remember what she looked like- only that she was a powerful and awesome presence. In my dreams she tells me that she will give me strength and to trust her no matter what happens.
I am not stupid, but I am far from being a huge intellectual and the books available can be sort of dry and over my head..they also seem to require prior knowlege of Greek mythology... I try to study it but to be honest I find it boring and difficult to get through.. I wish someone would write "Hecate for Dummies"..but I think that I will eventually get it the best that I can.

[Hellenic_Witch]

The "Hecate for Dummies" idea amused me -- I for one am a compulsive reader and view reading as both a hobby and a skill, so occasionally I like to read something "above me" to challenge myself. Or I might read something in a genre I don't normally enjoy just for the purpose of expanding my view. But, that being said, I like the "Dummie" books -- straight, to the point information, easy to find what you are looking for and helpful information. I wonder if there is perhaps a "dummie" book about the Greek pantheon/mythology or the like that may at least have some useful info about Hekate -- of course, it would probably be very general and might contain info that we could find on any website. I for one am already trying to order one of the books Greenman suggested, since from reading his posts I have an "instinct" or a feeling that I should trust him. His experience with Hekate is very real and true. But, nowadays, with time constraints/schedules/work/kids (you name it) I understand sometimes it is hard to make time for serious reading -- whoever came up with the idea for those "Dummie" books is a genius indeed!!!

[Theres]

it's true that most general Greek mythology books tend to pass Her by with little more than a sentence. it's been really frustrating trying to find good, in depth info! :reading:

there are great many websites too, but i've found most of them to be either very elementary, or just downright inaccurate. why is it that bad information seems to perpetuate faster on the internet than the good stuff?
:confused:

anyway, if anyone's interested i'll post some links when i get back from the store.

[Hellenic_Witch]

I'm interested!!!

[mara]

I know what you're saying about Greenman..I read everything he has to say about Hecate. I think he should write a book. I am also an avid reader, but for me the problem is that unless I am interested in what I am reading I just have a really hard time digesting the material. also, I'm glad that you knew the Hecate for Dummies was a joke..I was a little worried..sometimes people don't know I'm joking. I guess its kind of hard to convey when you're typing.

[~*Ginger*~]

anyway, if anyone's interested i'll post some links when i get back from the store.
Yes, please do.

[Theres]

I am also an avid reader, but for me the problem is that unless I am interested in what I am reading I just have a really hard time digesting the material.

damn, i know how that is! i don't think it was that way when i was younger, but anymore if i'm not nearly obsessed with something i just can't seem to focus. maybe it's Adult Attention Something Something Syndrome? (lol!)
oh god, i have a syndrome!!! :lookaroun

well anyway, here's some of my favorite Hekate links. i don't agree with everything they say, but i think the scholarship is good anyway...

Michael Clarke's essay... (http://www.norwichmoot.paganearth.com/hekate.htm)

an excerpt from von Rudloff's book... (http://www.islandnet.com/~hornowl/HekateArticle.html)

something from Stephen Ronan's book... (http://www.hermetic.com/webster/hekate-review.html)

the Theoi Project (click on 'H' and scroll down)... (http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theoi.com%2F)

Hekate info... (http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theoi.com%2F)

a fun site (with some good links in 'the library')... (http://www.pacificnet.net/~spectre/Temple/docks.html)

a new one i just found... (http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/greek_goddess_hecate.htm)

have fun! :)

[Blondie]

Next full moon, I'm thinking of doing my first ritual to Hecate, to kind of formely invite her into my life.

Anybody have any suggestions?
I know She's a Goddess of creativity, so maybe something innovative with my energy pattern is in order?

[bridgewitch]

well in my case, which I am sure is not unique, I had NOT chosen any one in particular. Because my job is so connected with the sea, I kinda went with Birghid yada yada yada, until I noticed that I had at least 100 crows/ravens etc going up to the bridge with me in the mornings, like they had been waiting on my to get there and one of them, a cripled one, was so tame he would come into the bridgehouse and eat from my hand. So I was like ok Macha..well, I had sort of the same "vision" as others..the woman in the cave, and I awoke knowing it was Hecate..THEN I did some research and it fit..I had been thru some dramatic changes..we wont even go there, but my life was completely 180 from the previous year and there were some fear issues too..went back to school, was student speaker at graduation, quite a feat since most knew I was a pagan, not that I advertised, I just answered questions honestly and some people just said they knew..i must have an invisible sign on my forehead..anyway, now I have frogs, and just recently had a HUGE SNAKE..I even got frog jewelery as gifts. So I know I am hers but nothing dramatic..just like Hi there. Thanks for the links..I am always anxious to learn more, since she picked me. Ahhhh little did SHE know!

[Theres]

you're very welcome bridgewitch!

and Blondie, if you want to do a ritual to invite Hekate, i would consider doing it during the NEW Moon instead, as this is a time which is sacred to Her.

[Blondie]

you're very welcome bridgewitch!

and Blondie, if you want to do a ritual to invite Hekate, i would consider doing it during the NEW Moon instead, as this is a time which is sacred to Her.
Thanks!

I was kinda torn to tell you the truth - I've seen conflicting information regarding her holding domain over the new, full or dark moons. They all sound relevant to some extent as well in terms of her energy and mythology.

I'm thinking I'll write a very personal ritual for the new moon. I always love things with a creative and unique flair to them.

[DixieWitch]

I found this site... http://www.hecatescauldron.org/Hecate%20Trivia.htm

Let me know what you think on it.

[Theres]

i have that one bookmarked, but quite frankly it's not one of my favorites.
there is some good information in there, but it seems decidedly slanted. for example...
Hecate enforces feminine independence from masculine influences and this deals in all things including the religion known as Wicca. Wicca is heavily influenced by the male God. The Sabbats are centered around the male God. The word Wicca is a male term....a term connected to the Goddess religion.
what Hekate can do is enforce any seeker's independence from any detrimental influences, regardless of gender. this includes depression, insecurity and addiction, among other things. it's all about shining that torch inside.

Wicca is no more influenced by the God than by the Goddess. it is above all about balance (imo). sure, the 8 sabbats are centered around the God (being solar in nature), but there are 13 full and 13 dark Moons centered around the Goddess. Wicca is NOT a "Goddess religion".

i'm also not fond of the Maiden/Mother/Crone association, but i guess that's just because i don't relate to that. She was never depicted as anything but a maiden in ancient art or literature, so this association is a strictly Wiccan one. and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it doesn't serve to get me closer to Her.

and although there seems to be a lot of references to Her Thracian origin (as on that site), most of the more scholarly archeologists agree that Caria seems to be a more likely home. there is evidence to suggest that She had a very early influence at Zerynthos (on the island of Samothrace), but the largest body of archeological evidence for a center of Hekate worship lies at Lagina (modern Turkey), and at nearby Stratonikeia, where coins were struck with Her image (see my avatar ;) ).
in fact Hekate seems to have played a fairly minor historical role throughout much of the Greek world, which is probably why it's so hard to find any decent material on Her.

[RavensEye]

Wow thanks Greeman I think have enough information to get started on my Hecate page. Awesome links and information !

[DixieWitch]

i have that one bookmarked, but quite frankly it's not one of my favorites.
there is some good information in there, but it seems decidedly slanted. for example...

what Hekate can do is enforce any seeker's independence from any detrimental influences, regardless of gender. this includes depression, insecurity and addiction, among other things. it's all about shining that torch inside.

Wicca is no more influenced by the God than by the Goddess. it is above all about balance (imo). sure, the 8 sabbats are centered around the God (being solar in nature), but there are 13 full and 13 dark Moons centered around the Goddess. Wicca is NOT a "Goddess religion".

i'm also not fond of the Maiden/Mother/Crone association, but i guess that's just because i don't relate to that. She was never depicted as anything but a maiden in ancient art or literature, so this association is a strictly Wiccan one. and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it doesn't serve to get me closer to Her.

and although there seems to be a lot of references to Her Thracian origin (as on that site), most of the more scholarly archeologists agree that Caria seems to be a more likely home. there is evidence to suggest that She had a very early influence at Zerynthos (on the island of Samothrace), but the largest body of archeological evidence for a center of Hekate worship lies at Lagina (modern Turkey), and at nearby Stratonikeia, where coins were struck with Her image (see my avatar ;) ).
in fact Hekate seems to have played a fairly minor historical role throughout much of the Greek world, which is probably why it's so hard to find any decent material on Her.
I looked further into the page and they had a Yahoo Group you can join. Turns out, it's a Dianic ecoven type thing. This may be why there's the things "against" the Go. Not saying they are against teh Gods, but against is the better word I could tihnk of. Hopfully you'll understand with out being offended. RIght now, I am in a constant state of elarning, especially when it comes to Hekate. I'm almost to the point of obbsession and any info I can get my hands on is good for me. An since online is my only resourse, I'm reading on every site I come across. Thanks for your input Greenman. I am reading everything with an open mind!!!

[DixieWitch]

I want to set up an altar to Hekate. Are there any specifics I should go with? Colors, scents of candles/incense, stones, etc?

[Mithrea]

I want to set up an altar to Hekate. Are there any specifics I should go with? Colors, scents of candles/incense, stones, etc?

I have garlic and olive oil on my altar to her, along with a "doll" of Cerberus I found at the Dollar Tree ( :lol: ). I also have a couple of different representations of her, three candles and a skeleton key. Most of those things relate more to my personal experiences with her than anything else though.

[DixieWitch]

can youy still find skeleton keys out there? I'm wanting to get one, but I'm not sure where to look. Also, how do you have your olive oil out?

[Theres]

i got a few on them at a local 'antique store'. i have three of them hanging from my staff, and another that sits on my altar.

i think an altar should be a very personal thing, so you should put on it whatever connects you to Her.
i'm fairly traditional, so my altar reflects that.

last Mabon a few friends and the D'fly and i (and Liebe!) went camping at our Beltane site. it was cool being there with only half a dozen other people!
but while i was there i spent a lot of time down at the Hekate 'shrine' that we had set up at Beltane earlier that year. i brought most of the stuff from my home altar and set it up in the rootball of a long-downed giant douglas fir. here's a picture (i hope!)...

http://www.mysticwicks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12043

when the weekend was over i carefully packed everything back up, but i purposely left my key there. this was a different key than the others, it was skeleton shaped, but was flat like an old skate key, with three circles at the top (that was what drew me to it).
so i left it there until the following Beltane (which is a very big deal in our community), hoping to get it back at that time and sort of 'upload' everything it had witnessed out in the wilderness in winter. it was kind of an offering to the site in Her name.

all winter long (and it was pretty brutal this year!) i thought about that key hanging in the rootball in the Cascade foothills, about the deer leaving their footprints nearby, the owl's hunting at night, the voles and bobcats and anything else that might have wandered by. it was almost like a shapeshift at times, i was that connected.
and i never thought about that key without thinking about Hekate.

the year keeps moving along, and talks begin about this year's Beltane festival, and about how everyone wanted to find another place to hold it, someplace bigger.
say WHAT?
why hadn't anyone said anything sooner, like after LAST year's Beltane? oy!
scouting trips were made, and finally a very cool site was chosen. and it turns out that a dear, dear friend of ours who had always stood up for May Queen but had never been chosen finally was!
but we weren't there for it.
after much soul searching both the D'fly and i thought that we weren't through with our connection to the old site yet. and i certainly had some unfinished business down there! so we bowed out, although i can't say gracefully. our departure from the group gathering caused quite a stir, and many people (even some of our deepest friends) felt that we were making some kind of 'statement', that we were taking our volleyball and going home over the site change against our will. :(
but nothing could've been further from the truth.

so we went to the old site and camped by ourselves (and Liebe!) for Beltane. and i made MANY trips back to the rootball altar in the woods. but i'll never forget that first visit, when i climbed down into the shrine, and there was my key!
it was a little rusty, but not too bad. i rubbed my Hekate oil all over it, and rubbed and rubbed until i had everything that that key had to relate in me.
and the other cool thing was that the flat stone (it might be visible in the center of the picture) that i had used to hold my charcoal and incense the year before still had incense ash on it! so while it was definitely cold and icy/snowy all winter, the shrine itself was pretty well sheltered.

wow, i guess i've really rambled on again. okay, 'the end'.

[Mithrea]

can youy still find skeleton keys out there? I'm wanting to get one, but I'm not sure where to look. Also, how do you have your olive oil out?

I got mine at Lowe's. :lol: They aren't anything cool like Greenman's!

I keep the olive oil in a bowl and I just change it out every once in a while.

[Theres]

olive oil? hmmm... there's a thought.

and the keys i got were not that fancy, just a buck a piece. they required a little cleaning, and one was a bit bent, but that was easy enough to fix.
(grrrr... i wish my scanner was working!)

i've been working on a design for an altar, but haven't gotten all the details worked out yet (i need to get off my ass and get this done!).
it will be engraved into a granite gravestone, and will have the Hekate's Wheel image in the center, surrounded by two torches. above will read 'Ekath, and below en erebos phos. in each corner will be a dagger, a key, a cord and an equal-armed cross (altough these last two i'm not yet sure about).


*okay, off to find sketches...*

[DixieWitch]

I looked on Ebay...you can find everything there!! They have some old skeleton keys. I'm feeling like older ones would be better. Of course, I would have to cleanse it. But to me, it's jsut better. And for those who don't already have one, I ordered the Jessica Galbreth Hekate print the other day. I got the mini one. It came today. Her and the Greenman print. I love them! I'm still trying to figure out where I want to display them--on the wall or on the mantle. They definitly need a frame though.

[DixieWitch]

Ok I set out a bowl of olive oil...I read that somewhere else also. I also put out a couple cloves of garlic. When I got them out, I noticed a couple cloves on another bulb had sprouts on them, so I took the time to plant them. Maybe they'll make something! I also lit my patchouli incense and put out some stones I found in my jewelry box--a tiger eye and some other stones I picked up in New Orleans when we went there in 2000.

[Theres]

i just found this site (http://isxios.home.mindspring.com/hekate.html), which i hadn't been to before. it isn't about Hekate specifically, but rather Hellinismos in general. and it's not very in depth, but i like the author's somewhat innocent approach to Her.

[~Owl~]

above anything else, Hekate is a limnal Goddess... the Goddess of transitions and change.

as the Goddess of the crossroads, decisions and change are Her realm (which path will you choose?). but this also includes the transition point between life and death, and between death and life. it is this latter that gets confused most often, i think. people see Her in this aspect and immediately associate Her with the strictly underground Goddesses (Persephone, etc), which probably explains how She has been 're-classified' in modern time to be a Crone. since She deals with death, She must fit into that category. but nothing could be further from the truth. in ancient Greece (and later in Rome) She was NEVER depicted as anything but a young woman.
you might also find Her listed as a 'fertility' Goddess because of the limnal aspects of birth. but this isn't really a fair or accurate description either, imo.

even Her 'New Moon' associations have become a bit distorted. the ancient Greeks saw the New Moon as the beginning of each month. as such, this beginning was a limnal point also, and THAT is why Hekate was associated with the New Moon. the last night of any month is Hekate's Night.

IMO, this is the best article I have found of Hecate. As She IS the patron Goddess of Witchcraft, and one of the oldest Godesses in the world, (from before Babyonian times, and it was said even Zues revered Her), I would NOT recommend Her as a Patron or Mother Goddess. She is not the Grandmother type that sneaks you a cookie when Demeter is not looking.

She is not associated with the Greek Goddess as much. And Aradia, remember was the daughter of Diana, THE goddess of witchcraft.

I know many here may feel attune to Her, but She is not one I would tangle with. Just my two cents. And yes, in the 20+ years I've been a Priestess, I've invoked Her name many times to get something done. And it's usually not something nice.

[David19]

Since this thread is about Hecate, people might like these sites:

http://www.granta.demon.co.uk/arsm/jg/hekate.html

http://www.the-cauldron.fsnet.co.uk/greece_and_rome.htm - not on Hecate, exactly, but has good info, IMO, on ancient Greek and Roman witches.

And, there was a very good one that I can't seem to find now (I had it saved on my laptop, but now that I've had to reinstall Windows, I've lost it :().

Anyway, hope this helps out someone, I don't worship Hecate, but she does really interest me.

[electricpeppers]

i would ask questions, and She would answer mysteriously. and then She would always end by asking if i wanted to dive into Her cauldron.
now i had done just enough study to believe that this might be some kind of initiation, or a death/rebirth experience, so i would always (politely) say "no thank you". and Her reply was invariably "that's fine, the time will come", and then this disturbing, knowing smile.

I was actually looking for a thread on Hellenic Wicca but this very old thread popped up and since Hekate is my patron Goddess I took a ganders.

I'm glad I found this thread because of the above quote -- it's very strange because I did a pathworking for Hekate recently and she took me to a cliff edge and asked/told me to jump off of it into the ocean. I was like 'uhh not thanks, I prefer dry land...' I wasn't sure what the consequences would be if I accepted and also wondered what the heck she was thinking, but it all
makes sense now! :lol:

[Jeremy Westenn]

I have to mention, and agree with a poster above, that some people seem to infer Hecate as being a grandmotherly type Goddess, very sweet and Crone like and truth be told I won't say she isn't but there's a lot more to her then a lot of people think.

I've not pledged myself to any specific Gods/Goddess's but I think it goes without saying that most people in our community don't research pretty much all of the people they invoke.

- Westenn

[Theres]

I have to mention, and agree with a poster above, that some people seem to infer Hecate as being a grandmotherly type Goddess, very sweet and Crone like and truth be told I won't say she isn't but there's a lot more to her than a lot of people think.
very true.

I've not pledged myself to any specific Gods/Goddess's but I think it goes without saying that most people in our community don't research pretty much all of the people they invoke.
i'll assume you meant gods rather than "people", but if what you say is true then it's a damn shame (and somewhat dangerous to boot!).

[Fiamma]

I have to mention, and agree with a poster above, that some people seem to infer Hecate as being a grandmotherly type Goddess, very sweet and Crone like and truth be told I won't say she isn't but there's a lot more to her then a lot of people think.




Much more to her? Yes. There's always "much more to" the gods than people think.

Sweet and grandmotherly? I've not heard that one. Crone, yeah, that's the common neopagan assertion.

The folks who first knew and worshipped Hekate, however, would not agree....

http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html

Hekate was usually depicted in Greek vase painting as a woman holding twin torches. Sometimes she was dressed in a knee-length maiden's skirt and hunting boots, much like Artemis. In statuary Hekate was often depicted in triple form as a goddess of crossroads.

That triple, by the way, refers not to "maiden, mother,crone" triple goddess, but to triple-headed, or triple-faced, looking in three directions.

[Jeremy Westenn]

Yeah, but I like to think deity is undestanding. And of course I meant Gods, <_< not people. Silly me. ;)

[Jeremy Westenn]

Much more to her? Yes. There's always "much more to" the gods than people think.

Sweet and grandmotherly? I've not heard that one. Crone, yeah, that's the common neopagan assertion.

The folks who first knew and worshipped Hekate, however, would not agree....

http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html



That triple, by the way, refers not to "maiden, mother,crone" triple goddess, but to triple-headed, or triple-faced, looking in three directions.

I mean to say that a lot of people infer that grandmotherly type of thing, and truth be told she's a Titan and has an interesting history. She's hellenic but not a general run of the mill Goddess.

Have to say all this talk of her interests me greatly. She really is the only specific Goddess of witchcraft I can think off the top of my head, isn't Diana one to?

[Theres]

Sweet and grandmotherly? I've not heard that one. Crone, yeah, that's the common neopagan assertion.
yes, unfortunately that is not as uncommon a pov as it should be.
you know... there is nothing unpleasant in the world and therefore no need for any deity which isn't pure white light. :rolleyes:


I mean to say that a lot of people infer that grandmotherly type of thing, and truth be told she's a Titan and has an interesting history. She's hellenic but not a general run of the mill Goddess.
the term 'Titan' is oft misused and much misunderstood, imo.
from an Hellenic perspective Titan generally can mean any deity who was not indigenous to Greece proper prior to the Dorian invasion. the War of the Titans can therefore refer to the political and cultural upheaval this invasion brought.

Hekate's Anatolian origin undoubtedly dates back further than any Greek reference to 'The Titans, and is somewhat confusingly wrapped up with the histories of both Cybele and Artemis (the oriental, or 'Ephesian' Artemis, not the 'Arcadian' Artemis of Greece and the western Mediterranean).

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Theres wrote:


Hekate's Anatolian origin undoubtedly dates back further than any Greek reference to 'The Titans, and is somewhat confusingly wrapped up with the histories of both Cybele and Artemis (the oriental, or 'Ephesian' Artemis, not the 'Arcadian' Artemis of Greece and the western Mediterranean).


That helps explain some of the things I see with Artemis that have never "Fit" the mold I see her placed in so often. Does make one wonder how much of Hecate's story and Artemis' story have become intertwined.

It trully helps answer one question that has plagued me for a bit when in dream Artemis said she see's before me, behind me and at me. That sounds more like Hecate now in her three direction view.

I wonder now if Hecate is not the young goddess I see in flowing white and alabaster skin with eyes that pierce that I always find at intersectionsof the road in the wilderness? She looks like Artemis but is not, but could pass for her.

Maybe even why I could not find a statue of her (Artemis) while I was in Rhodes and Korfu (Corfu) Greece.

[Theres]

That helps explain some of the things I see with Artemis that have never "Fit" the mold I see her placed in so often. Does make one wonder how much of Hecate's story and Artemis' story have become intertwined.

It trully helps answer one question that has plagued me for a bit when in dream Artemis said she see's before me, behind me and at me. That sounds more like Hecate now in her three direction view.

I wonder now if Hecate is not the young goddess I see in flowing white and alabaster skin with eyes that pierce that I always find at intersectionsof the road in the wilderness? She looks like Artemis but is not, but could pass for her.

Maybe even why I could not find a statue of her (Artemis) while I was in Rhodes and Korfu (Corfu) Greece.
yeah, they are definitely connected, and sometimes inextricable. both can be depicted as torchbearers, as can a number of other goddesses (Demeter, for example). one key to identifying the difference is that Hekate is the only one ever depicted with two torches.
i have read in certain ancient numismatic books that Artemis is only ever shown wearing a short chiton, and Hekate always a long one, but i haven't yet confirmed this as being an irrefutable constant.

there is also the story of Iphigenia, Agamamnon's daughter, whom he sacrificed to Artemis in return for a fair wind to Troy. it is said that at the exact moment of her death Iphigenia became 'Hekate'.
actually according to myth ALL sacrificed women become 'Hekate' at death, but whether that means the actual goddess Hekate, or if this is just a general title i'm not sure. however Hekate IS the protector of the 'auroi', or women who died prematurely, especially due to sacrifice, so the story does make sense.

the fact that you couldn't find a statue of Artemis on the islands surprises me, but only a little.
the ancient association of Artemis in that area would have been as a fertility goddess, the so-called 'Many Breasted Artemis' from Ephesus, and not the more Diana-like virgin huntress of the west (see attachment).

[MonSno_LeeDra]

The chiton is one of the things that has always made me doubt the identy of the 'Crossroads" Artemis versus the "Wilderness" Artemis. The "crossroads" Artemis always appeared to be wearing what looks like a long gown with a midwaist wrap or tie. She also confused me in that instead of a flat sandle or sandle with high wrapping laces the "Crossroads" Artemis one time wore what looked almost like buckboots while in another instances she wore more of a mocasin low shoe type thing. Neither of which appeared to be for walking out of doors.

The "Wilderness" Artemis always wears a heavy leather shoe or boot when I see her. She has more of a knee lenght chiton. She always has a stag or large deer and a bow with her. She also has a "Wild" presence about her. The "wilderness" Artemis makes me think of the wildhunt and the urge to run with her.

The 'Crossroad" Artemis occasional will have what I have taken to be a bow on her back. At times thier is something in her hand that I can never see other than as a light that will illuminate. Though I see what I think is a musical instrument in her other hand when this happens. The "Crossroads" Artemis is always more of a mother figure and points things out and asks my opinion and just walks along. Yet unlike the fun loving "Wilderness" Artemis the "Crossroads" Artemis will slap the crap out of you if she thinks your ignoring her or not listening.

the fact that you couldn't find a statue of Artemis on the islands surprises me, but only a little. the ancient association of Artemis in that area would have been as a fertility goddess, the so-called 'Many Breasted Artemis' from Ephesus, and not the more Diana-like virgin huntress of the west

You know that that though never even crossed my mind at the time. I vaguely remember seeing the many breasted goddess and started to buy one but for one reason or another didn't. I kept looking at the Diana type figure with the drawn bow and deer but never could buy that one as it was not her.

Now I sort of feel like a horses butt for maybe she was talking to me in one guise but I couldn't get the other out of my mental picture. Will have to think about that one.

[Theres]

You know that that though never even crossed my mind at the time. I vaguely remember seeing the many breasted goddess and started to buy one but for one reason or another didn't. I kept looking at the Diana type figure with the drawn bow and deer but never could buy that one as it was not her.

Now I sort of feel like a horses butt for maybe she was talking to me in one guise but I couldn't get the other out of my mental picture. Will have to think about that one.
oh i wouldn't feel like a horse's butt over any of this stuff.
Greek mythology is SO much more complex than our high school teachers ecer told us, and trying to put some kind of Bullfinchian ribbon around it all and calling it 'done' is a fool's errand, imo. and it's obvious that you've done some homework.

i'm interested in your observations regarding Her footwear. do you have any references for this. i have to confess that this is something i have never noticed, or even thought about before.

i should also point out that the Ephesian Artemis is not fully understood either. Burkert ('Structure and History in Greek Mythology and Ritual' - 1979) discusses the difference in the two images, and suggests that the Asian version may be a survival of the very ancient and pre-historic 'plank' god/esses.
these were simple wooden planks, sometimes vaguely anthropomorphic, sometimes not, on which offerings were hung. his theory is that the "many breasts" may in fact be breasts, but may also be representations of sacks filled with fertility offerings (grain, oil, wine, etc), and may even be bull testicles!

but before this becomes an Artemis thread i should point out that the two names were aften combined, and there are Greek coins from Magna Graecia (pre-Roman southern Italy) which show a torch bearing goddess and identify Her as 'Artemis-Hekate'.
just in case you weren't confused enough! lol

here are a few images. the numismatic description of the first one is...

CAMPANIA, Neapolis. 325-241 BC. AR Didrachma, 19mm. (7.26 g).
O: Head of nymph right, small figure of Artemis-Hekate behind, and inscription 'ARTEM' (Greek for 'Artemis') beneath bust. R: Man-headed bull (River-god) walking right, Nike flying above. cf. SNG Cop. 415. A rare & interesting variant, with a clear and explicit allusion to Artemis! Well centered and a nicely toned VF.

the second is...

LUCANIA, Metapontion. Circa 330-290 BC. AR Nomos (20mm, 7.91g).
O: Lu-, magistrate. Wreathed head of Demeter left, wearing triple-pendant earring and necklace. R: Seven-grained barley ear, leaf to left; Artemis-Hekate carrying long torch above leaf, LU below leaf. Johnston Class C, 7.8 (same obv. die); HN Italy 1590. EF, lightly toned.

the third one is a close-up of the Lucanian nomos.

it seems that She is wearing the short chiton in both depictions, and obviously has but one torch. in light of this i think that the Hekate attribution is a bit of a stretch, especially considering that Her cult was far less prominant in the west.
still, definitely food for thought.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I have no proof on the footwear. The only time I actually see the footwear on any statues it seem to be an open face sandle, head on view. Very seldom have I seen any side views or upper foot views that would show the lacings or wrappings if any where present. It's just one of those things that the difference between the two is so contrasting that it always stood out to me.

Theres wrote:

Greek mythology is SO much more complex than our high school teachers ecer told us


I know that one. I found out just how much I didn't know when I visisted Greece. Between the temples that just appear on this or that island and the very sensation of sailing on those waters was so different than anything I could have imagined. Pondering how small I felt on them I can only wonder how the ancient Greeks must have felt.

[Theres]

I have no proof on the footwear. The only time I actually see the footwear on any statues it seem to be an open face sandle, head on view. Very seldom have I seen any side views or upper foot views that would show the lacings or wrappings if any where present. It's just one of those things that the difference between the two is so contrasting that it always stood out to me.
well i'm definitely going to start paying attention.

hmmm... i can see now how i could develope a foot fetish following this line of research. lol

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I found a few pictures that show a little of what I was talking about.

In this one Hecate is supposed to be the figure in the rightmost position. If you look at her feet she has a buckboot type footwear but not as high as we normally would think of them.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/hecate6.jpg

In this one she is wearing the shorter Chiton but has the same style of boots.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/hecate3.jpg


If you look at the image (many breaster Artemis) you provided earlier its the open toed sandle.

This image is drawn for coloring but it show's the Romanized foot wear that is sort of open sandle

http://www.learningtreasures.com/suite101/artemis_coloring.jpg

Unfortunately, most of the imagery you find on the net is the fansyful imagination.

Granted this is just a quick search but I hope it gives some idea of the disparity I see in the footwear.

[Zephyrstorm]

*sits down with her tea to listen to the great discussion*
Very fascinating, ya'll. :)

[Theres]

yeah, i'm enjoying it too!
i'm trying to post here and work on our garden at the same time... stupid garden! :)

In this one Hecate is supposed to be the figure in the rightmost position. If you look at her feet she has a buckboot type footwear but not as high as we normally would think of them.

http://altreligion.about.com/library...cs/hecate6.jpg

hmmm... i've always thought of Hekate as the leftmost figure in the Pergamon frieze.
if you check out this site...

http://www.kzu.ch/fach/as/gallerie/rare/ka/perg/Pergamon.html

... you'll see one link entitled 'Hekate and Artemis", and another entitled just "Hekate". the first shows the entire scene, as you posted. but the second one closes in on the lefthand female figure. note too how this figure has the dogs at Her feet.
it's hard to see what kind of shoes She is wearing from the frieze, but it appears to be a slipper, or (more likely, i think) a closed sandal. kinda hard to tell from that scene, but in any case it hardly seems like sensible footwear for a battle! (lol)

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Now I really have to go back and research.

In the image the Left figure 'Hekate" does match what I call the "Crossroads" Artemis in dress. Especially the wrap about mid point. She also has that motherly persona from what I can see but the angle is different than I have encountered her.

Yet I wonder why I never see her with dogs? Now that raises a question or situation to ponder.

Once I had the urge to go up into the moutains and just felt I had to connect with Artemis. For the longest I walked and felt her presence and spoke to her and received answers from the forest and residents of it. Now as I walked my dog (Dalmation) was with me but just nosed about, pulling me here or thier.

Later her "feel" changed but I really didn't think about it. In retrospect perhaps even the goddess present changed. I was at a point where three ravines merged into one and the land sloped down from all three points to form a gully or wash. Now what made it different, my dog no longer wanted to roam or pull away, he just sat there as I talked and acted as if someone was petting him. I can't even tell how long we stayed there, but it was close to dark when I finally started home.

As we walked away I felt someone or something walking with us but with footfalls so light it was like the wind was pushing the leaves and grass, or like the swish of a long dress. She stayed with us till we exited the ravine area then another presence took its place. One lighter but heavier and more energetic.

Now I wonder did I pass from Artemis to Hekate back to Artemis?

I do wish I could find some better presentations of thier footwear though. One thing is for sure many things have been laid before my eyes today that I must think upon and ponder for I have long addressed the long gowned lady as "Lady" only but perhaps the appropriate address is Hekate.

I wonder, I had never met a great aunt of mine until my mother had asked me to track her down. Once I found her it turned out she at that time was a priestess of Hekate from what she told me. Chance? perhaps not and it was just a guide to get me pointed in the right direction.

Much like this very thread which laid dormant for so long.

[Theres]

cool story, and it sounds like a deeply moving adventure too.
you know, i have seen it written (and i'll be damned if i can find the quote now, but it was an ancient source) regarding Hekate that "She walks in desolate places".
of course the same might be said of Arcadian Artemis, so that in itself doesn't clarify much.

I wonder, I had never met a great aunt of mine until my mother had asked me to track her down. Once I found her it turned out she at that time was a priestess of Hekate from what she told me. Chance? perhaps not and it was just a guide to get me pointed in the right direction.
now that IS interesting! have you kept in touch with her?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Unfortunately not. I finally found her after she had seperated from her husband and family. Their was a big rift that had opened but I did hear later that she was back home with the family and had gotten back with her husband and daughters. After that I felt it was moving forward again and she slipped out of my life.

She's actually my mother's step sister so they never knew each other real well. My mom was seperated from her parents and raised by her grandparents. I was doing family research for mom and she wanted me to try and find out about her. My mom's other step-sister did tell mom that my calls may have started a bunch of stuff to come falling down though.

I find it ironic that this thread has taken me back to so many things that I have attributed to Artemis and an unknown Goddesa I only called "Lady". In many ways I feel as if a name has been given to her now.

Now all I have to figure out is who is the antlered man that was always around when she showed up? He always stayed out of the main picture but it often felt as if he was at her beck and call and she at his.

And to think the only thing that made them appear to me as different was the footwear they had on. Or at least that was the part that always stuck in my head and said they where different. Other than my calling them "Crossroads" Artemis and "Wilderness" Artemis.

[Theres]

I find it ironic that this thread has taken me back to so many things that I have attributed to Artemis and an unknown Goddesa I only called "Lady". In many ways I feel as if a name has been given to her now.
:)

Now all I have to figure out is who is the antlered man that was always around when she showed up? He always stayed out of the main picture but it often felt as if he was at her beck and call and she at his.

And to think the only thing that made them appear to me as different was the footwear they had on. Or at least that was the part that always stuck in my head and said they where different. Other than my calling them "Crossroads" Artemis and "Wilderness" Artemis.
well, Hermes is a crossroads god ('Enodia'). He wouldn't be wearing antlers though.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Boy my blood sugar is jumping about badly today, from 115 to 175 then back to the 125 range in a few hours.

I added that because when I first read the reply instead of Hermes I saw Herne. I'll admit I first though of Apollo, his being Artemis' brother but that didn't feel right to me. But it could be Hermes figuring I didn't see the image real clear and the antlers could have been wings.

But that makes me wonder is thier a older connection between Hecate and Hermes in myth?

[Theres]

But that makes me wonder is thier a older connection between Hecate and Hermes in myth?
there are a number of connections between the two, but mostly from the archaic and classical periods.
both were crossroad deities (Hekate Enodia and Hermes Enodios). both had stone piles or pillars placed at crossroads in Their name. in fact the herms placed for Hermes is where we get His name.
both were classed as 'psychopomps', or beings who could enter the Underworld and return again. these were the only two who could do so 'officially', although there are a number of Hero myths where this is done... Theseus, Herakles, Orpheus, etc.
both appear in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, although some translations alternate between one or the other.
there are later stories connecting the two with various offspring, although i tend to discount these as being 'polluted'.

the biggest point against their mythological connection though is (imo) the fact that Hermes is very much an indigenous Greek god, whereas Hekate is much older and of foriegn origin.

by the way, as far as the 'wings' go, Hermes' wings were on His feet, not His head. He is usually depicted wearing a patasos on His head (a sort of round travelling hat) with a chlamys wrapped around His shoulders.
the confusion often stems from the so=called 'Mercury' dime, which had a winged cap. however, this was a depiction of Liberty, and the wings were meant to symbolize freedom of thought and had nothing to do with Mercury or Hermes.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

One thing that sort of has me still stumped is that as "The Crossroads Artemis" I see Hecate as a younger woman (Perhaps mid to late 20's) but never with the two staffs of fire. At times she does have something that glows like a light in her hand, or just above it but definately not a staff.

Yet I can not identify the other item upon her back that I once though of as a bow. Though I now wonder if it might not be a torch staff that is unlit? I say unlit for each time I have seen her it is daylight and on a forested road, usually at or near a Y intersection.

Her footwear is so different from "Wilderness Artemis" that is clearly seperates them. I have started to wonder if the footwear may not also indicate the region of origin for them? It is an area that I have started to look into a little but the closet thing I can find at this time for the "Crossroads Artemis" is almost a persian like closed, soft boot or shoe.

Yet that makes me wonder about a more Asian influence upon the "Crossroads Artemis" than the "Wildernes Artemis". Her footwear more closely resembles a romanized style.

A different facet of Hecate that keeps coming to mind is the facet of Queen of the Dead and association with graveyards. It was genealogy that drove me to contact my great aunt. It was genealogy that has sent me into a lot of graveyards looking for family graves and such.

In some ways a commitment to a Great Aunt on my fathers side is what has driven me into genealogy for a number of years. She was the head of our family and always wanted to go bacl to where she was born on the mountains but my dad was never able to do it. I finally got mom and dad and my siblings, neices and nephews up onto that mountain. As we walked around dad was able to make peace with my great aunt Ethel. Threw me his memories and her stories where repeated upon that high mountain top.

This may sound very mental or such but even as I write this I can see the Crossroads Artemis looking over my shoulder and nodding in agreement.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Arts/ZeusAltarE.htm

Thier is a good blow up of the shoe Artemis wears in this one. You can see the heavier sole and lacing for outside use in it.

[Theres]

wow, those are cool, and i wouldn't mind having a pair of those for myself!

but the site you linked to is interesting. interseting as in i'm not sure what to make of it. some of the information is compelling, while some of it is downright wrong.
but the fact is it got me looking at the Pergamon frieze in a more detailed light, and now i'm more confused than ever. however i'm not sure my concerns are conducive to this thread, so i may consider starting another one.
stay tuned.

[Zephyrstorm]

I tried to find a good university site that discussed the Pergamon frieze in detail and other than a few book reviews, it looks like everything relevant is rather out of my reach. I'll keep looking.

[Theres]

I tried to find a good university site that discussed the Pergamon frieze in detail and other than a few book reviews, it looks like everything relevant is rather out of my reach. I'll keep looking.
i think Jstor would be the best bet online, but you have to be a member (and i am not, unfortunately).

the thing that got me wondering specifically is the figure of Hekate (obviously!).
the text on that site describes Her as "three-headed", but i see no such evidence. while there does appear to be TWO heads, it seems apparent that the one in the foreground belongs to Athena (hence the shield) while the background head depicts Hekates and Her torch behind the figure of Athena.

now the site goes on to describe the giants' snake biting the shield of Athena, further corroborating Her identity. so where are Hekate's other two heads?
the traditional dating of the altar would place it in an era (and location, obviously) that could include a three-headed depiction, but i'm not seeing it here.

[Zephyrstorm]

I agree - I'm checking with my husband to see if he has the university access to JSTOR via his job or his status as a student.
If he lets me get into the university database on his id, I may be able to pull something good.

I have a book that has a picture of Hekate with three heads (all animal heads) but it's from a late Hellenistic curse tablet, so its not really relevant here. The book in question if you'd like to take a look is Bengt Ankarloo's Magic and Witchcraft in Ancient Greece and Rome.

[Theres]

I agree - I'm checking with my husband to see if he has the university access to JSTOR via his job or his status as a student.
If he lets me get into the university database on his id, I may be able to pull something good.
that would be cool, and i look forward to seeing what you find.

I have a book that has a picture of Hekate with three heads (all animal heads) but it's from a late Hellenistic curse tablet, so its not really relevant here. The book in question if you'd like to take a look is Bengt Ankarloo's Magic and Witchcraft in Ancient Greece and Rome.
i've seen that book on the shelf at Powell's and almost picked it up a few times, but there was always something else to draw attention (and limited dollars!). i will definitely bump it up on the list though.
yes, the depiction with three heads (human or animal) is a later one, and not at all uncommon in Asia Minor. coins from there during the Roman era almost invariably show Her thus, although usually human.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I wonder if Hecate was identifed more from the torch and dog that is fighting with them than having three actual heads?

In the image thier is a dog's head attacking the giant just beneath the point where the serpent has grabbed the bottom of the sheld. That the dog is on the side with Hecate I would think that it is associated with ehr vice the Artemis figure farther over on the tablet.


http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/laserdisk/0138/13839.JPG

Links for individual panels

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/laserdisk/pergamon/index.html

[Zephyrstorm]

Okay, I hit up ArtAbstracts, ArticleFirst and several other scholarly databases, including Doctorates and Dissertations... Pergamon frieze only came back with articles about the museum that hosts the Pergamon frieze. Artemis did give forth a really good looking doctorate on the rituals of childbearing from Ancient Greece, which will be getting a better perusal when I'm not so short on time as right now.
Hekate... nothing. Hecate mostly came back with discussions of Romanticism and Shakespeare.

I'll keep looking though, and keep ya'll posted.

[Zephyrstorm]

So, in light of the lack of wealth that I've seen at my University database library, I did finally pick up Greg Crowfoot's The Crossroads: The Path of Hecate the other day.
I had my misgivings, but rather hoped it was more like Sorita d'Este's explorations of her than not. Some of the information was really interesting and some of it made me go "Wait... where'd he get that?"

For example, on pg 146, he talks about the Hounds of Hekate being named after either Kirke and Medea or Bioso and Thanatos. I've not heard anything about the Hounds having names at all, much less those names, however pleasing it is to imagine Bios (Life) and Thanatos (Death) as being their names.
ideas? have ya'll seen this idea before?
should I have just started a new thread? probably. oops.

[Theres]

i thumbed through 'Crossroads' at Powell's when it first came out, but decided rather quickly to leave it on the shelf. nothing i have seen from it since has made me regret that.
if the author wishes to document UPG's as scholarship (which Sorita d'Este did too but MUCH better) and approach the topic from an entirely neo point of view, then he should leave out all the "Groundbreaking" nonsense from the back cover, imo.

as far as the names of the hounds, that's a new one on me. i never even considered that they might be named, and suspect that this is probably his own addition. it may be something from a play, but that doesn't impress me much either.
personally i would have gone with 'Butch' and 'Nasty', but whatcha gonna do? ;)

[Zephyrstorm]

LoL - yeah, it took me all of a day and a half to read it, and when I looked at the sources for his info, most were really just a line or two on a webpage.

There are things there that are great as UPG, but the whole book needs some sort of disclaimer at the beginning explaining as much.
I'm not sad I purchased it though. It'll serve as a reminder of what not to do with a book if I ever decide to write one. :hahugh:

I never really personified her hounds - they're just her dogs. They're there, a part of who she is, but not specified. *shrug*