If Jesus were alive today...

[IvyWitch]

I don't particularly believe he would be a witch.

http://www.wellreadwitch.com/jcwitch.htm

I'm sorry but I just hate this article as much as I hate the "We Are the Other People" article. If Jesus were alive today he's still be a Jew. I'm sorry, but I just can't see it any other way. Granted he would probably not be a Jew in the traditional sense since both the church and temple are probably still pretty far gone from his ideals and what they were at the time. I just cannot believe that he would be a witch in any sense of the word. Personally I just think it's an article written to make Pagans feel better about themselves because Christianity hates them. So, we need to take OUR representation of THIER God and rub it in their face and say "Hah, look, Jesus would be one of us, and we be accepted so you have to stop persecuting us".
Can't we just leave the Christians alone for God's sake?

Ok, done ranting now? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Kyra Kismet]

There was a book that said he was a magic mushroom dealer...thats why people say starnge things while he was about!

[samiaminsane]

I don't particularly like the "Jesus was a witch" thing either. I believe that he was real, just not that he was the son of God. I think Jesus was a good man, and he lived in a time when people were not willing to accept his teachings. Maybe in todays times he would be a monk?? Who knows.........

[Aelfoak]

I think if Jesus was alive today, then he would be an excellent illusionis, healer. The Holy Bible was written over 2000 years ago now and made up of different stories that were told by his follows, i just think that a book like that can be chopped and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that it has been interprated correctly?

Just imagine this scenario, take David Blaine or David Copperfield with their magic skills, back to the age when Jesus was alive and imagine how they would both be viewed today, Jesus type images i think? And also, the people during Jesus's era were incredibly poor and also oppressed by the Roman's, so they would have easily been influenced by someone like Jesus who was good and kind to them, when the Roman's were not, and maybe saw him as someone to look up to; a saviour as Christian people now see him.

So i think that he would be a normal man doing good things for humanity and charity if he was alive now, i just think that people over those 2000 years have maybe manipulated who he was with all the stories, anyway, how the hell do i know, i weren't alive in those times but this is my view as i see it!

[Morgandria]

You can be a witch, and be of any faith. It is entirely possible ( if not probable, or provable) that Jesus was a Jewish witch - or at least a witch by today's definition.

-M.

[HorseCrow]

:hmmmmm:

[Aine of the Fae]

I think if Jesus was alive today, then he would be an excellent illusionis, healer. The Holy Bible was written over 2000 years ago now and made up of different stories that were told by his follows, i just think that a book like that can be chopped and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that it has been interprated correctly?

Just imagine this scenario, take David Blaine or David Copperfield with their magic skills, back to the age when Jesus was alive and imagine how they would both be viewed today, Jesus type images i think? And also, the people during Jesus's era were incredibly poor and also oppressed by the Roman's, so they would have easily been influenced by someone like Jesus who was good and kind to them, when the Roman's were not, and maybe saw him as someone to look up to; a saviour as Christian people now see him.

So i think that he would be a normal man doing good things for humanity and charity if he was alive now, i just think that people over those 2000 years have maybe manipulated who he was with all the stories, anyway, how the hell do i know, i weren't alive in those times but this is my view as i see it!

The only problem with this scenario is that Jesus didn't go for the public image, in fact he waited a very long time before coming out. Also he HEALED people, something David Blaine and David Copperfield don't do. The things Jesus did simple do not fall under the domain of illusionist. An illusionist cannot cure leprosy, blindness or paralysis. An illusionist cannot raise a little girl from the dead.

[Aelfoak]

Also he HEALED people, something David Blaine and David Copperfield don't do. The things Jesus did simple do not fall under the domain of illusionist. An illusionist cannot cure leprosy, blindness or paralysis. An illusionist cannot raise a little girl from the dead.
How do you know, or anybody to the fact, that he really healed anyone? As i said before, the Bible is over 2000 years old and could have been re-written and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that these stories about him have not been exaggerated! I'm taking the Jesus thing with a pinch of salt to be honest, until his supposedly resurrection back on earth and he show's the world that he really can heal someone right in front of our eyes, only then i will believe all the stories.

[mucgwyrt]

How do you know, or anybody to the fact, that he really healed anyone? As i said before, the Bible is over 2000 years old and could have been re-written and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that these stories about him have not been exaggerated! I'm taking the Jesus thing with a pinch of salt to be honest, until his supposedly resurrection back on earth and he show's the world that he really can heal someone right in front of our eyes, only then i will believe all the stories.

Problem - anytime anyone claim's they're Jesus, they throw him in a mental institution and pump him full of anti-psychotics :rolleyes:

[Erebus]

If Jesus had ever been alive, he'd've been a heretical Jew. That goes for today as well as the past.

[Amethyst Rose]

What's sad is that people have so little faith that if he did come back, he be commited to a psych ward as "the guy who thinks he's Jesus".
But back to the topic on hand, I've never liked the Jesus as witch argument either, but I always found the idea that he was a Yogi to be particularily interesting.

[mucgwyrt]

What's sad is that people have so little faith that if he did come back, he be commited to a psych ward as "the guy who thinks he's Jesus".
But back to the topic on hand, I've never liked the Jesus as witch argument either, but I always found the idea that he was a Yogi to be particularily interesting.
:uhhuhuh: that's what I believe.

[Rockprincess]

What's sad is that people have so little faith that if he did come back, he be commited to a psych ward as "the guy who thinks he's Jesus".

Now, *I* don't beleive Jesus was the son of god, but rather an ordinary man with a strong connection to the Divine. Many people are healers in our time, why could he not have been the same? I don't beleive he brought someone back from the dead - but he could have nursed someone back from a near-death state, and rumors would have quickly become embellished stories. That is what happens in all myth-as-history teaching methods.

However,if I am wrong and he did come back, it would be relatively obvious that he was God, and there wouldn't be any throwing-into-assylums.

[Aelfoak]

I don't beleive he brought someone back from the dead - but he could have nursed someone back from a near-death state, and rumors would have quickly become embellished stories. That is what happens in all myth-as-history teaching methods.
I fully agree with you there as stories can change and be manipulated by so many people over all those years. I feel that he was just an incredibly loving man who may have nursed people back to health, and his loving nature may have helped them to get better.

[Faeawyn]

I believe that Jesus was an example of what humanity "could" be, if we weren't bogged down with so much negativity. When I meditate and release the negative energy around me, I almost get a sense of what it may have been like to be so free and to have that sense of love and light and well being. I believe that he was so connected to the energies around us, that he was able to heal and perform other forms of "magick". I also think that he was an enlightened being and had attained the level that all souls aspire to get too. If he were alive today, he'd probably be a great teacher and a New Ager.....or a lightworker.
As far as the "son of God"....aren't we all children of the creator/our God/The source, or whatever name you prefer.

[mucgwyrt]

As far as the "son of God"....aren't we all children of the creator/our God/The source, or whatever name you prefer.

Exactly - I feel he was speaking philosophically, and we kind of missed the point, you know?

[Pesha]

Jesus was a rabbi and so he would probabvly be one today. I have no beleifes in him at all other than he was a man, a frabbi and that is all. Could he have been a witch....oh why not.

BB
DS.

[Equinox]

paganworld wrote:

the Bible is over 2000 years old and could have been re-written and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that these stories about him have not been exaggerated!

Hi Paganworld – minor correction – the Bible is under 2000 years old. It’s books appear to have been mostly written during the time between 65 and 140 CE, making most of the Bible about 1,900 years old. However some parts were added and changed after that (which isn’t speculation, we have hard evidence of it – that’s why the KJV is different from the NIV- the NIV is based on older fragments, for instance). Some changes were much more recent, such as John 8:1 to 8:11, which was added in the middle ages.

I agree with your statement overall. The stories about Jesus circulated by word of mouth for decades even before being written down – and there were dozens of “miracle workers” back then, all of whom were believed to raise the dead, walk on water, heal the sick, etc. All these miracle workers had grandiose stories told about them by their followers and embellished by their followers over the years of retelling. Names like Apolonius of Tyana, Pythagoras, and many more.

Dragonsinger wrote:

he was a man, a frabbi
Wow, I never knew he was a FRABBI. :spinner: That’s awesome! LOL!! :p
(I’m not trying to pick on you, I just found the typo funny!)

Lastly, Kudo’s to Taiyo’s first post (post #1). It appears from the data we have that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew, much like many other Jews of his day. We see a somewhat similar worldview in the Essene community of the dead sea scrolls.

[Sleet]

minor correction ? the Bible is under 2000 years old.

To expand on this, the "official" lineup of books was first decided at the Council of Nicea in 324, then redecided during the Reformation (leading to Catholic and Protestant Bibles having slightly different books within them).

[Faeawyn]

Since we have so many knowledgeable people here.....can I ask a question? I had read once that the way the bible was written was that people came before a council and told their stories of Jesus and such.....and it was that council that decided which stories would be included in the bible. Is this true?

[Sleet]

Since we have so many knowledgeable people here.....can I ask a question? I had read once that the way the bible was written was that people came before a council and told their stories of Jesus and such.....and it was that council that decided which stories would be included in the bible. Is this true?

Not really quite like that. There were many accounts of Jesus, and a council of bishops met in the town of Nicea in 324, gathered up all the different accounts they could find, and decided which ones would be considered canon (incidentally, they did this for the whole Bible, not just the gospels). They arrived at the ones we know as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but those weren't the only ones around at the time - there's a Gospel of Thomas out there, and I've heard of a Gospel of Mary as well, but I know almot nothing about either of them. I'd imagined that most were written, but I suppose that some could have been verbally delivered memorizations of earlier accounts.

(As to the original question, if Jesus were alive today, I'd think he'd be complaining about sterroids in baseball and high gas prices. ;) )

[Equinox]

Not really quite like that. There were many accounts of Jesus, and a council of bishops met in the town of Nicea in 324, gathered up all the different accounts they could find, and decided which ones would be considered canon (incidentally, they did this for the whole Bible, not just the gospels). They arrived at the ones we know as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but those weren't the only ones around at the time

Sleet and I disagree a little here. I think the books of the Bible were not completely decided at the Council of Nicea, though that event was certainly significant. There were many other gospels and books, of which we only have a few surviving today. Most of the other ones we have are more recent than MMLJ, but there may have been older ones that are lost.

To read some of the ones we have (including the gospels of Thomas, Mary, and Peter), go to www.earlychristianwritings.com. It appears from the evidence I’ve seen that the process of deciding which books to include was started as early as 180 CE, but it wasn’t completely decided until well into the 4th century, with the Council of Nicea being significant, but by no means final. The books were chosen by the “catholic” church of the day so as to exclude writings by the many other Christianities that didn’t agree with them (such as the gnostics and the marcionites), and also excluded the books that weren’t ancient.

All of these books grew first by the unreliable hearsay process for decades, then were written down (though sometimes changed after being written down), then some were picked for the Bible. All this over the course of about 300 years (from Jesus’ death around 30 CE to the middle of the 4th century, after which only small changes were made).

But don’t take my word for it. The best way is to learn yourself. It’s amazing to me how many people (Christians in particular) don’t know about that time period. The dozens of other forms of Christianity were all (mostly) eradicated by the Roman church by around 400 CE. If you’d like to learn about those other Christianities, I recommend ordering these lectures by Dr. Bart Ehrman: :graduate:

http://www.teach12.com/ttc/assets/coursedescriptions/6593.asp (audio form)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195141830/qid=1085748569/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6867012-7485562?v=glance&s=books (book form, $20)

If you get them on audio tape they are just $35, the same you probably spend every month on cable. Which will stoke your mind more, a month of cable or learning about these other Christianities? I found that listening to them in my car on my commute worked great.

Blessings!

[Sleet]

Sleet and I disagree a little here...

By no means should anyone take anything I say as anything but details half-remembered from a medieval history class taken twelve years ago. It's entirely probable that I'm overstating Nicea's importance as far as Biblical canon is concerned.

[Valnorran]

...he'd be clawing desperately at the inside of his tomb!

Sorry. I saw the shot, I had to take it.

[Aelfoak]

[QUOTE=Equinox]paganworld wrote:


Hi Paganworld – minor correction – the Bible is under 2000 years old. It’s books appear to have been mostly written during the time between 65 and 140 CE, making most of the Bible about 1,900 years old.QUOTE]

Hi Equinox, thanks for that correction, a couple of hundred years off my estimation isn't that bad!

Well, all i'm saying about this subject is that the book is yonks old, none of us were there 1,900 odd years ago to prove the real truth, so there's no point in all of us trying to explain exact details of who decided what should have gone in the Bible etc, none of us will ever know the truth, unless some long lost scripts, or the original ten commandments are found deep inside a lost cave somewhere high up in a mountian range!

Maybe in another 1,900 years, Harry Potter will be so exagerrated that he will be believed as the new Jesus, and the son of JK Rowling the God, and the full works of Rowlings Potter books will be believed as the ancient rightous books like the current bible is. Things could have changed so much over those 1,900 years to the Bible that we will probably never know what the real story is.

Another question to get your head round then, if an Alien life form were to come to Earth for a visit and we asked them about God and Jesus, and the Alien said to us that there is no such thing, what would happen then, and how would the world react? Am i going to deep here or what?:hmmmmm:

[Kitfox]

I seriously doubt he would be a Witch, however I would hope that he would tolerate of them and other Pagans. I think he would be regarded as seriously crazy.

I mean, claiming you're God these days would probably swiftly get you in a psych ward or on Montel.

But, who knows?

[Faeawyn]

Another question to get your head round then, if an Alien life form were to come to Earth for a visit and we asked them about God and Jesus, and the Alien said to us that there is no such thing, what would happen then, and how would the world react? Am i going to deep here or what?:hmmmmm:

Strangely enough....it seems that every civilization on Earth has worshipped some form of deity....but if an alien came down and said they did not, and there was no such thing...I would just assume he was an atheist alien :lol:...or perhaps their culture just didn't grasp what our meaning of God was.

[Merlinawakend777]

if jesus where alive today he would not be the lamb, but rather the lion.... :vanish:

[arienh]

Perhaps Jesus is alive today and s/he is keeping a low profile to avoid the publicity. Considering what happened last time, I wouldn't blame him/her.

[Morr]

if Jesus were alive today, he'd be a Reformed Jewish Rabbi working & teaching not only Judaism but Kabbalah as well.

[Cinnamon Girl]

I don't think he'd be a witch either. But the reason I posted is because this thread reminded me of a great book that I'm wondering if any of you read: Lamb (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380813815/qid=1089603852/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9445987-1175956?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) - I highly recommend it. :)

[awyrdone]

man...if Jesus were alive today? I would be his Mary Magdalene and wash his feet every day. I love that whole long hair goatee thing mmmm...

[LadyTrinity]

As I had grown up I was taught that he is a jew

[LadyTrinity]

man...if Jesus were alive today? I would be his Mary Magdalene and wash his feet every day. I love that whole long hair goatee thing mmmm...


LOLOLOLOL... You should check out Ashton Kutcher in "Butterfly effect" LOL He looked like Jesus! :lol: :yourock:

[charmedkisses1]

I don't particularly believe he would be a witch.

http://www.wellreadwitch.com/jcwitch.htm

I'm sorry but I just hate this article as much as I hate the "We Are the Other People" article. If Jesus were alive today he's still be a Jew. I'm sorry, but I just can't see it any other way. Granted he would probably not be a Jew in the traditional sense since both the church and temple are probably still pretty far gone from his ideals and what they were at the time. I just cannot believe that he would be a witch in any sense of the word. Personally I just think it's an article written to make Pagans feel better about themselves because Christianity hates them. So, we need to take OUR representation of THIER God and rub it in their face and say "Hah, look, Jesus would be one of us, and we be accepted so you have to stop persecuting us".
Can't we just leave the Christians alone for God's sake?

Ok, done ranting now? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Me neither. He reffered to pagans several times, and did not include himself in that group. :cutie:

[charmedkisses1]

if Jesus were alive today, he'd be a Reformed Jewish Rabbi working & teaching not only Judaism but Kabbalah as well.
I dont' know about THAT.... :bigredblu

[Morr]

I dont' know about THAT.... :bigredblu


He wouldnt be Christian, thats for sure.

[LittlePerson]

...A Jew who studied buddhism and would now be a buddah or buddisatvah.

[Dorchadas Síofra]

I think if Jesus was alive today, then he would be an excellent illusionis, healer. The Holy Bible was written over 2000 years ago now and made up of different stories that were told by his follows, i just think that a book like that can be chopped and changed many times over all those years, and how do we know that it has been interprated correctly?

that was hard for me to see as a Christian too, how can anyone be sure of translations? I'm not sure how big their vocabulary was then, but I know one word could mean 3 or 4 different things. How could translators change languages without altering the meaning? and what about the books the Catholics didnt believe should be included. The Apocrpha has some interesting books, that are not included in many Bibles, why not? they dont' seem to "connect" well with the others, which shows differences in what people saw or remembered.

I do believe that Jesus was real and that he was more than an ordinary person. He had powers to heal and help, the article does have good points, but I don't know who he'd be today. No one can know, only him and i dont know if he'd fit into any one religion.

[ShadowCat13]

If Jesus were alive today- he would have a fit with everything going on in the world today! Its definatley not he same place as it was when he was alive so many years ago. If he were alive today, I think he would be a powerful leader, that would bring peace to the world.

[charmedkisses1]

I still don't believe he'd be a witch :lol: I do think he'd be upset at what people are doing to each other. He probably IS upset :elf:

[punxzen]

i don't think he'd be a witch. from my perspective, he seems to be a magus. he was visited by three magi when he was born, and spent years and years in egypt. i think he was a gifted student of hermetic magic. self-initiation is the primary tenet of hermetic mageia, and after the self-initiation you become a son of god. from the jewish perspective, it makes sense to see him as the son of YHWH, but i am not so sure that he himself thought he was the son or incarnation of YHWH. i think he was just a very gifted magus with a heart of gold. he is prolly a young man right now, studying history and religion and the course the world has taken since his crucifixion. i don't think he is going to claim to be anything, and i dont honestly think he ever did. im pretty sure that his somewhat less enlightened followers attributed to him aspects which he never would have claimed of himself. he will do what he can to the best of his ability :)

[Marchosias]

If Jesus were alive today, someone would probably kill him.