Síle na Géige (Shella na Gig)

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I found this very interesting article a few weeks back on Síle na Géige and her possible origins and thought that there might be some others here who would like to read it. I must say I found it fascinating and though I've never really had much interest in her before, it has definitely made me want to find out more.

Síle na Géige and Sacred Space (http://www.bandia.net/sheela/index.html)

[mucgwyrt]

Is this the same one as the Banshee?

[Muireannach]

I once had a shallow flower pot and decided i was going to make a Sheila Na Gig (sp?) to go around the edge and I did. I was quite proud of it as I felt it had meaning like she was giving birth to the earth. (I put some left voer bracciocome in it)

Well that idea was spoiled when my brother took one look at it and said to me "shouldn't she shave?."

On a more serious note I have always found her fascinating and the link cleared up her role in things. I always thought she was a maternal and "good" Goddess but I think she represents that nature is both kind and cruel and can often pose challenges for those it creates.

[Muireannach]

This is the Sheela-Na-Gig.
Grotesques are frequently found on churches all over Europe and it is commonly said that they are there to keep evil spirits away, but the Sheela-Na-Gig may have a deeper and more positive significance. She is the Earth Mother who gives and receives life back to herself, a figure of change and transition, who like all "gateway" psychopomps has a disturbing aspect. Change is by nature disturbing. At times of passage we move from the known to the unknown. That which is unknown can be fearful and the guardian aspects will also be fearful. Once the change is made and the gateway is passed we can look back and wonder at our fear. The gateway guardians become beautiful and compassionate figures of rebirth and regeneration.

http://www.iol.ie/~sinann/grove/sheela.html

[mucgwyrt]

Do you have a picture of it? :smile:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Is this the same one as the Banshee?

No. The Banshee, or more correctly Bean Sidhe in Irish, Bean Nighe in Scotts Gaelic is a spirit or faery that wails/cries when someone is about to die. Here's a quicky link: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/bean_sidhe.html

The Síle na Géige is usually a primative sculpture/carving of a woman holding her vulva wide open for the world to see. Read the article for more info.

[mucgwyrt]

nope, you dont read mine so I'm not gonna read yours *nyuuuh* :razz:

[Muireannach]

Do you have a picture of it? :smile:

Unfortunately my camera is broke :'( I'm going to get a new one though so I will have to take a pic soon enough :)

http://www.misfitwomen.org/Images/Sheela%20230pxl.jpg

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I once had a shallow flower pot and decided i was going to make a Sheila Na Gig (sp?) to go around the edge and I did. I was quite proud of it as I felt it had meaning like she was giving birth to the earth. (I put some left voer bracciocome in it)

Well that idea was spoiled when my brother took one look at it and said to me "shouldn't she shave?."

On a more serious note I have always found her fascinating and the link cleared up her role in things. I always thought she was a maternal and "good" Goddess but I think she represents that nature is both kind and cruel and can often pose challenges for those it creates.

That sounds like a great project Muireannach.

And I like your insight. It makes a lot of sense. But I must say, you are a very fast reader to have read that whole article in that short time between my post and your response. :reading:

[Muireannach]

That sounds like a great project Muireannach.

And I like your insight. It makes a lot of sense. But I must say, you are a very fast reader to have read that whole article in that short time between my post and your response. :reading:

lol I'm no trying to B.S. or sound like I am somehow super-intelligent but I did actually read the whole thing. I have dyscalculia and as a result my brain over-compensated when it comes to language arts. It's a nice ability to have, but not many people believe me. I spent all of high school proving them that I did read the whole novel over the lunch break, and then had to deal with their shock afterwards! lol

[mucgwyrt]

Wow, that's really funky chikin!! What a fab ability *ponders on all the things she'd read if she had dyscalculia* :fpompoms

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

lol I'm no trying to B.S. or sound like I am somehow super-intelligent but I did actually read the whole thing. I have dyscalculia and as a result my brain over-compensated when it comes to language arts. It's a nice ability to have, but not many people believe me. I spent all of high school proving them that I did read the whole novel over the lunch break, and then had to deal with their shock afterwards! lol

Wow....that's really interesting. I must say I've never heard of dysccalculia. Something else to add to my list of stuff to research.

[mucgwyrt]

If you had dysccalculia you'd be able to research it sooper dooper fast, Morag! :fpipesmok

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

:fishsmack

Now get back on topic...like I'm one to talk...:p

[mucgwyrt]

Spoil sport :razz:

[Calyx]

You gingers! :crazyman:

You know, I read a book not too long ago, where Sheila na gigs were in it prominently. Now I can't remember what it was, and this bothers me. :ugh:
I remember at least this much because at the time I didn't know much about them (ok, nothing about them) and I went to research them because I thought them fascinating. :uhhuhuh:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

You gingers! :crazyman:

You know, I read a book not too long ago, where Sheila na gigs were in it prominently. Now I can't remember what it was, and this bothers me. :ugh:
I remember at least this much because at the time I didn't know much about them (ok, nothing about them) and I went to research them because I thought them fascinating. :uhhuhuh:

When you remember you'll have to tell me the name. I wanna know! :reading:

As for saying, you gingers....like you can talk. :eyez:

[Calyx]

When you remember you'll have to tell me the name. I wanna know! :reading:

As for saying, you gingers....like you can talk. :eyez:


Hee Hee! :fishsmack

You know, the more I think about it, the more frustrated I am becoming. Obviously it was about Celtic/Gaelic/Scottish SOMETHING. It was a novel, that much I remember.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH! :collapse: Now it's going to drive me insane!

[frigga]

Great site! I feel a lot like the author did about sile and I must say that I haven't been to interested in her but maybe I'll take a closer look also!

Muchas Gracias! :toofless:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Hee Hee! :fishsmack

You know, the more I think about it, the more frustrated I am becoming. Obviously it was about Celtic/Gaelic/Scottish SOMETHING. It was a novel, that much I remember.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH! :collapse: Now it's going to drive me insane!

Aren't you already there? :dancy:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Great site! I feel a lot like the author did about sile and I must say that I haven't been to interested in her but maybe I'll take a closer look also!

Muchas Gracias! :toofless:

Welcome Frigga! :fpipesmok

[Calyx]

Aren't you already there? :dancy:


Well, yes, but you aren't supposed to tell anyone!! :crazylaug :uhhuhuh:

[frigga]

I must say that I've never really seen her as a Goddess but rather a moderator of sorts, much like the authors gatekeeper analogy.
I like the idea of her as a balancing force of opposition. You can definatly see this in the carvings and meanings. I view her exposure as more of an enterance and welcome if you dare gesture. A direct link to the mysteries if you will, but also the idea that we hold them within our own bodies. The Sile's enterance ( trying to be PC for the youngin's here!), suggests that source of divine is rooted deep within, a woman's "cave" is an excellent analogy as it represents deep personal pernitration, union, and the entrance to places unknown, the primordial cave.
going to go think a little more now! :hmmmmm:

[Seren_]

Ummm. If she's a goddess, how come she's mostly found on medieval churches and castles?

As far as I know, current archaeology lumps her in with a group of "grotesque" figures - both men and women displaying their genitalia. The earliest are found in France (Aquitaine, I think), dating to around the eleventh century, from where they spread to parts of Spain, then Britain, then Ireland. The male types tend to be found more in France, and the female types in Britain and Ireland, but there are more Sheelah's known in France and Ireland than anywhere else - that could be due to preservation than anything else though.

It's been suggested they were symbols of "sins of the flesh", hence the grotesque, ugly appearance of most of them. A comparable style can be seen with the "pagan" Romans (they used to carve a phallus over doorways to avert bad luck), but it's very much a "Romanesque" style of art that died out around the sixteenth century. There's not much hard evidence to support the idea they were pagan at all, but no evidence is not proof etc.

It seems they spread from ecclesiastical architecture to secular buildings in Ireland because of a belief that persuading a loose woman to expose herself to you averted bad luck, but that idea seems to only have been from around the nineteenth century, when they got their name "Sheelah na Gig" (or however you spell it...); "loose women" probably seemed appropriate to the Victorians, so it stuck.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

That is the generally accepted theory, but the author has some really interesting theories herself that I think are worth at least considering. There are older pre-Christian examples of what appear to be Sheela na Gig images, so that is something to think on also. And I certainly agree with her that the commonly accepted derivation for her name, Sile na gCioch certainly doesn't make sense as it means Sile of the breasts and most of them are depicted either without breasts and the few that do have them are shown with the loose sagging breasts commonly associated with the Crone and are not at all prominent.

[Seren_]

That is the generally accepted theory, but the author has some really interesting theories herself that I think are worth at least considering.

Oh definitely. There's no proof of anything, IMHO. Otherwise I'd have a hard time believing in gods or magic, for a start. But what intrigues me is the point where "current academic thinking" starts to contradict the spiritual truths; at what point do you have to accept "academic fact", or how do you justify refuting academia and accepting spiritual truth instead?

The answer to which is probably a) dependent on the person and your view of the gods, and b) an entirely different topic. But having said that, I know at least one person who dropped out of my course because he couldn't accept the purely academic idea of Sheela na Gig or the Green Man as given by our lecturers, and who were both very important to his personal beliefs. And I speak as someone who was taught that these were also some of "the Old Gods" as well, FWIW.

There are older pre-Christian examples of what appear to be Sheela na Gig images, so that is something to think on also.

Could I trouble you (or anyone) for specific references, if you have them to hand. I was sure there were, but I've had a hard time finding them.

[skilly-nilly]

I have dyscalculia

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but I am disnumeric (cannot do by-rote arithmetic)----if you don't mind answering a few questions:

Were you premature?

Are you strongly handed? (Do you have trouble telling your left from your right?)

Musical understanding/ability?

I read very fast and remember conversations and poetry very exactly, but cannot learn the multiplication tables and add and subtract on my fingers. And am tone-deaf.

Brains are interesting---skilly-nilly :ahhhh:

[Muireannach]

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but I am disnumeric (cannot do by-rote arithmetic)----if you don't mind answering a few questions:

Were you premature?

Are you strongly handed? (Do you have trouble telling your left from your right?)

Musical understanding/ability?

I read very fast and remember conversations and poetry very exactly, but cannot learn the multiplication tables and add and subtract on my fingers. And am tone-deaf.

Brains are interesting---skilly-nilly

I was born right on time actually, and yes I am VERY right handed. I was in piano lessons but then they caught on I had difficulty reading notes and was memorizing songs by hand patterns. I sound the same as you, but I am not tone deaf.

My main problems are sense of direction, anything to do with mathematics (the "visualization" and processes of it) bad sense of time, I have problems with the sequences of events i.e. "did I do that three days ago? or two weeks ago?"

Here is a link that lists the symptoms, I seem to have them all :(
http://www.dyscalculia.org/calc.html

[skilly-nilly]

http://www.dyscalculia.org/calc.html

Scarey! :jawdrop:

I have them all too---skilly-nilly

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Could I trouble you (or anyone) for specific references, if you have them to hand. I was sure there were, but I've had a hard time finding them.

Sorry for not responding sooner.

Kathryn Price discusses those Sheela's that she thinks my be older in the section entitled Old Woman of the Stones: Historical Sheela. She has pictures of those older carvings that she thinks could possibly be Sheela's there as well. I know she suggested that the Ralaghan figure discovered in 1908 near Shercock. Also she said in footnote 9a that it is possible that the Stepaside Sheela in County Dublin and the Tara Hill Sheel in County Meath and links to an outside website that goes more indepth about them. There is a fourth possible pre-Christian Sheela that she said was discovered in 2003 in County Fermanagh, originally from a graveyard on Lusty More Island and is estimated to be 2,000 to 3,000 years old