My right to call myself a Christian Witch.

[Aine of the Fae]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?

[Pol]

:)
Sometimes people get it in their head that they control religions. I've found it best to just shrug and say 'that's your opinion.' with a smile on my face. :)

[Aine of the Fae]

:)
Sometimes people get it in their head that they control religions. I've found it best to just shrug and say 'that's your opinion.' with a smile on my face. :)

I have a smile on my face most of the time :D I just like to start interesting discussions!!!

[Pol]

Oh, I didn't mean that at all! I only meant the smile because it tends to annoy them more. Heeh.

[Aine of the Fae]

Oh, I didn't mean that at all! I only meant the smile because it tends to annoy them more. Heeh.

Yeah, that's true... some people just like to see you blow your cool... and then when you don't, they blow their's!! :fpeace:

[Kalika]

:hugz:

Are they crazy? Awfully brave to say such a thing to you! ;)

Sweetie, you can be whatever you wanna be - as long as it works for you!

(I'm kinda starting to sound like a broken record with that bit. Oh well. )

[Mab]

:hugz: I get that, too. A lot. I find I'm constantly reminding ppl that "witch" does not necessarily equal "Wiccan", and that I don't feel, as a Xtian, compelled to follow all the old rules in the Old Testament, and that IMO Scripture was very much manipulated over the centuries & that Xtianity began as a mystical religion.

I fell compelled to say that. But usually (depending on the person I'm talking to) I just bite through my tongue & walk away. PPl can be so frustrating sometimes. :uhhuhuh:

[Pol]

Mystic religion, indeed. :)

King James was a sneaky fellow. :D

[Kalika]

:lol:

Even though I'm far from being ANY part Christian... I can understand the appeal, and how it works for you, because it was one of the MANY things that I explored when I was getting where I am today. :) I think its great that you're willing to stand up for yourselves, and voice your differences, even when its hard for alot of people to grasp. ;)

[Mab]

Mystic religion, indeed. :)

King James was a sneaky fellow. :D

Yes...yes he was! LOL

[Faeawyn]

:wave: I'm a christian/pagan/witch too :hehehehe: so there :tongueout

[Brinclhof]

Christo-pagan/witches of the world unite......:)

[Kalika]

:lol:

I'm just here for support. ;)

[Mab]

Kalika.....you can start FOCPW! (Friends of Christo/Pagan Witches) LOL

[Kalika]

:lol:

Are we going to have rallies, and parades, and all that good stuff?

If so, I'm in!! ;)

[Brinclhof]

:lol:

Are we going to have rallies, and parades, and all that good stuff?

If so, I'm in!! ;)


I love a good parade. I play tuba so I'll be in the marching band :tongueout

[Kalika]

:lol:

Ooooh.... I could play the clarinet - ha! Its been 5 years since I have... but I bet I could do it.

Now we need somebody to play the drums, twirl a flag, and sing!!

[Sleet]

Crikey, it takes but a nudge to push the average Catholic into paganism. (I know, I was one for a very long time.)

The way I see it, it's not my place to dispute any self-applied label, simply because there's no way I could ever know the whole story.

[Pol]

I think there are a lot more Christo-Pagans et al than a lot of people realise - and there were a lot more in history. History's actually full of them..

[aftershocked]

I'll join FOCPW! :hehehehe: I really :thumbsup: you for being able to stand up to someone like that. I was originally a Christian, who left the religion out of difference of perspective, and the faith because of a calling. I make the distinction here for a very important reason I'm sure most of you have discovered by now. Religions are man-made expressions of divine relationships, which we refer to as faith. I left the Roman Catholic Church because their dogma and world views sharply contrasted my own. I was a Christian Witch for a while.. until I heard the call of Anpu and Sekhmet, and realized my duty to serve Them. I still highly respect the Christian G-d and Jesus, and consider myself a follower of Christ's message of love and morals(which, imo, never involved the 'Follow me or burn in Hell' side some people connect with it). However, I happen to follow another path.

So.. I can twirl a baton? :foh: :D

[Aine of the Fae]

:lol:

Ooooh.... I could play the clarinet - ha! Its been 5 years since I have... but I bet I could do it.

Now we need somebody to play the drums, twirl a flag, and sing!!

I played clarinet in high school! First chair in fact!!!!

[Kalika]

Whooo hooo! We have a baton twirler. Any drum players/singers out there who want to joing the FOCPW?

(This is really a good thing... I swear!)

I agree that its awesome for you guys to come out and say it, share your beliefs, and stand up for yourselves! ;)

[Kalika]

I played clarinet in high school! First chair in fact!!!!

:lol:

I sucked, 'cause I was more interested in flirting with boys than learning how to play. :) When I focused, I was pretty good - I was 3rd chair - but focusing was a problem..... :D

[Aine of the Fae]

:lol:

I sucked, 'cause I was more interested in flirting with boys than learning how to play. :) When I focused, I was pretty good - I was 3rd chair - but focusing was a problem..... :D


Focus? What's that? I didn't practice a day in my life :lol: I was one of those evil little people with natural talent :devil:

[sweet nothings]

hunn you can call yourself whatever you want and you can believe whatever you want...you're not hurting people so it has nothing to do with them...they just need to go pound sand...

[Aine of the Fae]

hunn you can call yourself whatever you want and you can believe whatever you want...you're not hurting people so it has nothing to do with them...they just need to go pound sand...

Pound sand? I... oh... uh... my mind is getting a bit too dirty... think it's time to go to bed...

[Kalika]

Focus? What's that? I didn't practice a day in my life :lol: I was one of those evil little people with natural talent :devil:

:lol:

Must've been nice. I drove my mom nuts with alll the practicing. She used to make me go sit on our propane tank and play so she didn't have to listen to it! :D

[Aine of the Fae]

:lol:

Must've been nice. I drove my mom nuts with alll the practicing. She used to make me go sit on our propane tank and play so she didn't have to listen to it! :D

Yeah... but I can only imagine what I could have done if I'd actually practiced!!!

[Witchy Cowgirl]

:hugz: I get that, too. A lot. I find I'm constantly reminding ppl that "witch" does not necessarily equal "Wiccan", and that I don't feel, as a Xtian, compelled to follow all the old rules in the Old Testament, and that IMO Scripture was very much manipulated over the centuries & that Xtianity began as a mystical religion.

I fell compelled to say that. But usually (depending on the person I'm talking to) I just bite through my tongue & walk away. PPl can be so frustrating sometimes. :uhhuhuh:


Can we get an AMEN!
Being a Witch does not dictate what relgion you are. There are Witch's in many, many relgions. A Witch is someone who follows the cycles of nature, a healer, a wise person who is in touch with nature and the powers held within - and those powers were put there by the Creator, the Divine, in my opinion God in whatever form you chose to worship.

I'm a Christian Witch and proud of it.

I don't play any musical instruments or twrill. I fancy myself an athlete. Can I dribble a basketball in the parade? :colorful:

[Aine of the Fae]

Can we get an AMEN!
Being a Witch does not dictate what relgion you are. There are Witch's in many, many relgions. A Witch is someone who follows the cycles of nature, a healer, a wise person who is in touch with nature and the powers held within - and those powers were put there by the Creator, the Divine, in my opinion God in whatever form you chose to worship.

I'm a Christian Witch and proud of it.

I don't play any musical instruments or twrill. I fancy myself an athlete. Can I dribble a basketball in the parade? :colorful:

You sure can :D

[Xander67]

Can we get an AMEN!
Being a Witch does not dictate what relgion you are. There are Witch's in many, many relgions. A Witch is someone who follows the cycles of nature, a healer, a wise person who is in touch with nature and the powers held within - and those powers were put there by the Creator, the Divine, in my opinion God in whatever form you chose to worship.

I'm a Christian Witch and proud of it.

I don't play any musical instruments or twrill. I fancy myself an athlete. Can I dribble a basketball in the parade? :colorful:

Very well said! :jumprope:

[dr_zeus440]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?

excuse me while i go and bathe in green food dye :) meh, like everything else around here, it all comes down to definitions. for a contrasting viewpoint, checkoutwww.thecrookedheath.com (http://www.thecrookedheath.com). but for the record, saying that witchcraft and christianity dont mix isnt a stereotype, its a something else, but not a stereotype. and for good measure: :megaphone :fpatricks :needcoffe

[samiaminsane]

but for the record, saying that witchcraft and christianity dont mix isnt a stereotype, its a something else, but not a stereotype
NO, it's not a stereotype, it's just plain old wrong! Some of the biggest debates on this forum are about the acceptance and understanding of different religions. I find no problem whatsoever with Christian Witches, in fact I think it's wonderful. While I am not one myself, I think that Jesus and his teachings combined with being in tune with Nature and all that she encompasses is one of the greatest religions out there.

[Aine of the Fae]

aradwynn you rock!

[CeSeun]

Sign me up!

I'm most definitely a Christo-Pagan / Catholic-Witch etc. I have made all my sacraments in the Roman Catholic Church I was brought up going to. I still for the most part go to church on Sundays. I have had a loose - Caltholic upbringing and learned a bit of "alternative" religions - mom being a hippie and all :fpeace: I am going to bring up my daughter as both a Catholic and Pagan. She will make all her sacraments as I did, but also have the knowledge of the Craft. So that when she is old enough, she can choose her own path. Although I must share... I had a major problem when she was baptized. My husband and I had to go to a pre-baptismal class. At the class the priest told all of us that we HAD to have our children baptized, because if we didn't and they died they wouldn't be able to go to heaven and exist with God. That they wouldn't be "pure" enough to be in the presence of God. In "human" terms they would go "crazy" in His presence, so they wouldn't be able to go to Heaven. I almost walked out right then and there! Who is he to tell me that my infant, who has done nothing wrong, totally innocent, would not be allowed into heaven if she died. I'm sorry but my God isn't like that! Neither is my heaven! Besides that incident, I have other problems with the Catholic Church. I have now extended my belief and followed this path - which I have felt since I was a child - but unable to explore until now.

I have been doing a bit of reading. Wicca - A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner, and Earth Air, Fire, Water both by Scott Cunningham. As well as something else - can't remember it off hand, and I gave it back to my sister. I would like to know if anyone has any books they recommend. Also how do people have their alter set up, if you have an alter at all? Where do you find your "stuff"?

By the way I can spin a mean flag...was in the marching band as color guard. :)

[savannahrose44]

I think some people need to pull their heads out of their arses! Don't let them get to you...no one can tell you what is right for you and what is not. :bigredgri

[aluokaloo]

:twitch: :bigredblu I used to believe that christianity and witchcraft and paganism and all that stuff was like oil and water, until I saw alot of similarities and saw an informative document on Voodoo and Santeria, now I know that it can be mixed very successfully, and to my surprise have realised that its not really uncommon. Aine if being a Christian witch works for you. Well more power to ya! Whatever makes you happy, and all that good stuff! :thumbsup: :nonono: :crystalba :cheers:

This is a little bit off topic but who came up with the idea that witches were green with big warts anyways? :sick: :wth:

[Kalika]

For the record, I'm not green, old, nor do I have warts or bad breath. :lol:

:huddle: Go girls! (I have yet to see a male Christian Witch.... unless I'm blind?)

[Kadynas]

I tend to think of Witchcraft as a practice, not a religion in itself... to me magic is a tool, much like astrology, and can be used by anyone. Granted some sects of Christianity may believe Witchcraft to be "evil" or a "tool of the devil", but there are a good many Christian mystics out there who believe that what we call magic is simply the power of prayer, or on a grander scale, the God-given power of working miracles. :)
I don't know... :whatgives: If you ask me, people who go around telling people what they can or cannot believe have /way/ too much free time on their hands. Why are people so bothered about what someone /else/ does with their life? :huh:

[Eris3]

Someone once told me that you "cannot possibly" be a Catholic and Wiccan at the same time. I guess that they were the Wiccan pope, eh? I know that's a bit different that being Christian and a witch. I think that you can work from within any boundaries and structures that work for you.

At any rate, it was soon after this that I stopped calling myself anything at all.

[Garden of Eden]

The green with warts thing originated during the burning times when old widows and unmarried elderly women were prosecuted because they didn't have the 'protection' offered in society by a man. They were a threat, basically. Regardless of whether they were really witches or not, people invented diabolical acts (orgies, canabalism, pacts with the devil) and you had very little chance of defending yourself against such claims, since you would be tortured until you admitted to it.

Ok... that was incredibly off-topic, I know, but somebody did ask...

Anyway, my opinion on witchcraft + christianity... hmmmm. Tricky one. In my opinion... (MY OPINION, I'm not asking or telling you to agree with me) I'm not sure that the two are intended to work together, but it does depend entirely on definition. Ask ten witches for their definition of witchcraft, get eleven different answers! People who define witchcraft as the worship of the ancient gods would tell you, "No, you can't be a christian witch," whereas people who define witchcraft as simply the craft of spells etc. would have absolutely no problem with it.

Personally, In my own view of witchcraft, the way I practice it, there is no room for the christian deities. They simply wouldn't fit into my view of the universe. This might have to do with my catholic upbringing, not all catholic churches are repressive, but mine was (and still is to a point). I can't express my worship and joy of the universe and everything in it with the christian deities simply because of what they represent to me.

That said, I can completely see how someone could easily incorporate magic into their christian religon, and I know of people who invoke Jesus and Mary into their circles! If it works for them, then power to them. Religous freedom is what makes this path worth travelling and I have only the upmost respect for someone who can take the christian path and intertwine in with the ways of the witch. I can't, but *virtual mexican wave* to all who can! ;)

[IvyWitch]

You know as silly as it sounds I am quite surprised that there is such a problem from some people in the Pagan community with the term "Christian Witch" or the derivitives of it. It makes no sense to me that pagans out there have to make a big deal out of this. I really thought that it was mainly the Christian community that would freak, and there would be a few hardcore traditionalists who would have heart attacks. Of course there are going to be plenty of people that disagree, but I think we as a community of Pagans of all paths have a problem when others start telling people that they cannot call themselves something, or follow a particular path. And here I thought a thing about Paganism was respect for all paths, whether or not you agreed with it.
Sure, by most common Christian ideals you can't. But those are thier opinions, and I find it a little funny that after complaining about the Christian opinions that we feel like we have to agree with them. Why?

[Calyx]

You know as silly as it sounds I am quite surprised that there is such a problem from some people in the Pagan community with the term "Christian Witch" or the derivitives of it. It makes no sense to me that pagans out there have to make a big deal out of this. I really thought that it was mainly the Christian community that would freak, and there would be a few hardcore traditionalists who would have heart attacks. Of course there are going to be plenty of people that disagree, but I think we as a community of Pagans of all paths have a problem when others start telling people that they cannot call themselves something, or follow a particular path. And here I thought a thing about Paganism was respect for all paths, whether or not you agreed with it.
Sure, by most common Christian ideals you can't. But those are thier opinions, and I find it a little funny that after complaining about the Christian opinions that we feel like we have to agree with them. Why?


Actually, I quite agree with this post. It seems amusing to me that there are a number of Pagans who claim that they are the most open minded people in the world, who would never condemn or judge anyone for their religious beliefs, but yet once the word "Christianity" is spoken, those same people come out swinging. It can't be--your beliefs have no merit---you can't do what you are doing, it's not right---blah blah blah
Why the hypocrisy??

NOTE: THIS COMMENT IS NOT DIRECTED TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR!!!!!!
I am just thinking.......I really am curious. :)

[Tullip Troll]

I don't like it when people assume I am wiccan..I am not wiccan...I am a witch.

So if your Lord is Jesus or Zeus I can't see what the difference would be. However being a christian witch would be a nasty path especially if you are part of a church community. They would spend a lot of time trying to save you. At the end of my Jesus period, I too tried the Christian witch thing but in the end I found there was too much about christianity I couldn't swallow. Thats me though, everyone has to find the truth, and being a christian witch is obviously your truth.

MheraPai

[Lady Jade]

First, I want to applaud all of you here who have been admonished by others for your beliefs in Christo-Paganism. To be honest, Aine, I was suprised by your declaration, if not a little confused. I was of the mindset that although Christianity and Paganism are forever linked via symbolism and history, one could not effectively be a practicing Witch and claim to be Christian simply because Christianity dictates there be only one God and Witchcraft honors many including various female Deities. One belief seemed contrary to the other. I did not judge your statement or find it offensive in any way, what I did do was think a great deal about the whole idea of being a Christian Witch.

My personal beliefs are that Jesus was a man, a Son of God just like anyone else, like me and you. I believe in a Universal Force, the One if you will. Integrating these beliefs into Witchcraft for me was easy. I thought about your convictions and came to the obvious conclusion that it was none of my concern, that you alone choose your path.

So again, I applaud those of you who posted here in support of Aine and on behalf of all the ignorant people out there that are telling you what to believe and feel, I sincerely apologize.

[Garden of Eden]

When it comes down to it... If your chosen path is spiritually fufilling and works for you, then nobody can tell you that you are wrong. Deep down you know when you've found your place in the universe and nobody has the right to tell you otherwise, so don't let them. When you're home... you're home...

[oakowl]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?
Well this dredges up memories of the exwifes family lol. Anyhow they were from mexico where it is not odd to find folks blending thier catholicism with witchcraft. The exwifes grandmother was a bruja or "witch" who kept tarot cards and did some healing rituals. Oh and considered herself christian too. Not considered strange down there. You will find the same thing among Haitians with voodoo. Hope that helps.

[FaerySong]

All the more power to you, Aine! If you're beliefs are spiritually filling to you, and their beliefs are spiritually filling to them, then everyone should be happy and not worry about other's paths. :cutie:

[PAGANFILES]

Aine,

You fit the classic parameters for usages of the word Witch. Anyone not knowing that is showing a wee bit of historical ignorance.

Terry

[SacredWithin]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?

Once before I thought it was a ludacris (I spelled that wrong didn't I?) thing to want to be both. But now I realize that the Early Christians such as the Gnostics and Essenes could have been as Pagan as they come. I see nothing wrong with it as long as your not hurting yourself or anyone.

All I know is that I cannot see how a person be a Christian who totally believes in today's bible and be a pagan. That doesn't make sense to me b/c of the Gnostics and the Essenes teachings. So I guess it seems okay if you go by the teachings of the early Christians. But I have yet to understand how today's Christians can mix with the Pagan beliefs. Maybe I need to go look further into it.

:imout:

Yeah... I really need to study.

[LacyRoze]

Your path is just that, yours. As long as it is fulfilling to you then who gives a flying broomstick what others think. Stick to your guns, travel your path and do what is best for you!!! :D

[Aine of the Fae]

Aine,

You fit the classic parameters for usages of the word Witch. Anyone not knowing that is showing a wee bit of historical ignorance.

Terry

Thank you PAGANFILES!!!

[Nighthawk]

Aine, hun...call yourself anything you wish..I don't mind. You are you. Only you know you that well. Besides, I said you can be a Christian witch.... and that's that.!!

[SacredWithin]

Well this dredges up memories of the exwifes family lol. Anyhow they were from mexico where it is not odd to find folks blending thier catholicism with witchcraft. The exwifes grandmother was a bruja or "witch" who kept tarot cards and did some healing rituals. Oh and considered herself christian too. Not considered strange down there. You will find the same thing among Haitians with voodoo. Hope that helps.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that. And also, the slaves did it when their masters tried to convert them. They would use the statues to represent a member of their selected pantheon. Thanks for reminding me. :)

[Aine of the Fae]

Once before I thought it was a ludacris (I spelled that wrong didn't I?) thing to want to be both. But now I realize that the Early Christians such as the Gnostics and Essenes could have been as Pagan as they come. I see nothing wrong with it as long as your not hurting yourself or anyone.

All I know is that I cannot see how a person be a Christian who totally believes in today's bible and be a pagan. That doesn't make sense to me b/c of the Gnostics and the Essenes teachings. So I guess it seems okay if you go by the teachings of the early Christians. But I have yet to understand how today's Christians can mix with the Pagan beliefs. Maybe I need to go look further into it.

:imout:

Yeah... I really need to study.

A literal "every-word inspired by God" view of the Bible immediately excludes the idea of Christian Witches. However, what many people seem to forget is that not all Christians hold a literal view of the Bible. Even the Catholic church says the Bible isn't all to be taken literally!! (Yeah, I was a tad bit surprised when I learned that...) If you step back and look at the Bible as inspired, but culturally biased, sort out the stuff that is obviously cultural and obviously outdated, then Christianity can quite easily be reconciled with Witchcraft.

One of these days I'm gonna explain exactly what I practice and how it qualifies me as Christian AND Witch.

[Aine of the Fae]

Aine, hun...call yourself anything you wish..I don't mind. You are you. Only you know you that well. Besides, I said you can be a Christian witch.... and that's that.!!

Woohoo!!! I have Nighthawk's approval!!! I can retire from defending myself now!!! :lol:

Thank you everyone who has shown me, and the other Christian Witches/Pagans here, support through all of the criticism!

[punxzen]

(I have yet to see a male Christian Witch.... unless I'm blind?)

i dunno if i would call myself a christian 'witch', more like christian mystic :)

or christian mage or christian wizard would be cool :p

for now though, i define myself differently for whoever i am talking to, which usually ends up leaving me not defining myself, but just alluding to some basic principles i follow. but in my own mind, i am and always have been a son of god, i just happen to see the christian god as an entirely different archetype than the gods and goddesses. i prefer to think of 'god' as something more like tao, while the gods and godesses are on more of the elemental 'real world' level.

anywho, im with ya aine and aine, anytime someone is all mixed up over the christo pagan thing, lemme know and ill help you enlighten them :)

[AterCorax]

Aine of the Fae, you can call yourself whatever you want.

I was just saying things I didn't really think over in the other thread.

I'm sorry.

-Ater

[Athena-Nadine]

One of these days I'm gonna explain exactly what I practice and how it qualifies me as Christian AND Witch.
You know, I think that would be awesome. I don't think you should post it in the context of explaining or defending why you call yourself what you do or believe what you do, but because I think it would be a fascinating bit of information. But then, I'm weird like that.

[Elfa Wylde]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?


Well.... to be honest it seems a little difficult to me to be both. Especially when one teaches that anything BUT is WRONG. However I have met several people who have found ways to mingle both religions and are perfectly happy. My own philosophy is if you're happy with yourself... if you're happy with your religion... who cares what other think of it? Hon, if you're happy go for it!

[PAGANFILES]

i dunno if i would call myself a christian 'witch', more like christian mystic :)

or christian mage or christian wizard would be cool :p

for now though, i define myself differently for whoever i am talking to, which usually ends up leaving me not defining myself, but just alluding to some basic principles i follow. but in my own mind, i am and always have been a son of god, i just happen to see the christian god as an entirely different archetype than the gods and goddesses. i prefer to think of 'god' as something more like tao, while the gods and godesses are on more of the elemental 'real world' level.

anywho, im with ya aine and aine, anytime someone is all mixed up over the christo pagan thing, lemme know and ill help you enlighten them :)


If you work with herbs. If you attend another who is sick and they get well without church or medical attention. If your neighbors bull dies suddenly and you sell him one at a profit. ....and I could go on and on. These are all classic reasons that Christians have been labelled Witch by their brethren. So being a Christian Witch is rather a slam-dunk, except, maybe, to some Witches who are over-protective of the title.

Terry

[Nighthawk]

Well, my thought here is.... I am not too sure that Jesus himself was not a witch... Now before you all get upset...let's look at it. He was different..healing sick, raising the dead and all. In the peoples minds he was a heretic anyway, right?? Or perhaps a witch..in a different time, he would have been branded that anyway... So, so much for my point. Just thinking here.... could be way off....

[Brinclhof]

Well, my thought here is.... I am not too sure that Jesus himself was not a witch... Now before you all get upset...let's look at it. He was different..healing sick, raising the dead and all. In the peoples minds he was a heretic anyway, right?? Or perhaps a witch..in a different time, he would have been branded that anyway... So, so much for my point. Just thinking here.... could be way off....

I don't think you are way off. I think that by trying to learn about and how to use the natrual powers around us we are learning more about the forces Jesus used and how he performed his miracles. Therefore we are drawing closer to him and the divine through him. When I came to that realization was really when I started down this path.

So you go Night hawk.

[Nighthawk]

Why thank you....

[Kern]

Here's my 2 cents worth.
You can call yourself any thing you wish,thats your perrogative.
But if you look at the Bible.It condemns those who practice,all the things that most connect with witchcraft=Contacting spirits,worshiping other gods,worshiping nature etc.Even the worship of angels is condemned.The only being that may be honored,worshiped,prayed to,sought out in prayers etc is the God of the bible and Jesus Christ.All other forms of worship and practice not sanctioned by the god of the Bible is condemned as worshiping satan.Satan is recognised by the bible as the author of all other religions.So from the bibles view anything contrary to the ways of the God of the Bible is condemned as heresy,heathenry,pagan and from the devil. As for where Christ got his power the bible says he recieved all power from god the father.The worship of the queen of heaven was also condemned,and most witches recognise a female deity.
Now if your a christian and practice herbal healing,but dont do the other things mentioned above then that would be acceptable from the bibles view.The bible says that all the herbs of the field were good for man.This would not make you a witch,but a Christian who practices herbal healing.
The point is that the bible gives the definetions of what is of god and whats not;not the so called followers.
I hope I didnt offend anyone,I was just giving the biblical view.Not my own view.
Slainte and Peace!

[Tullip Troll]

Here's my 2 cents worth.
You can call yourself any thing you wish,thats your perrogative.
But if you look at the Bible.It condemns those who practice,all the things that most connect with witchcraft=Contacting spirits,worshiping other gods,worshiping nature etc.Even the worship of angels is condemned.The only being that may be honored,worshiped,prayed to,sought out in prayers etc is the God of the bible and Jesus Christ.All other forms of worship and practice not sanctioned by the god of the Bible is condemned as worshiping satan.Satan is recognised by the bible as the author of all other religions.So from the bibles view anything contrary to the ways of the God of the Bible is condemned as heresy,heathenry,pagan and from the devil. As for where Christ got his power the bible says he recieved all power from god the father.The worship of the queen of heaven was also condemned,and most witches recognise a female deity.
Now if your a christian and practice herbal healing,but dont do the other things mentioned above then that would be acceptable from the bibles view.The bible says that all the herbs of the field were good for man.This would not make you a witch,but a Christian who practices herbal healing.
The point is that the bible gives the definetions of what is of god and whats not;not the so called followers.
I hope I didnt offend anyone,I was just giving the biblical view.Not my own view.
Slainte and Peace!


I am so agreeing.


MheraPai

[PAGANFILES]

Here's my 2 cents worth.
You can call yourself any thing you wish,thats your perrogative.
But if you look at the Bible.It condemns those who practice,all the things that most connect with witchcraft=Contacting spirits,worshiping other gods,worshiping nature etc.Even the worship of angels is condemned.The only being that may be honored,worshiped,prayed to,sought out in prayers etc is the God of the bible and Jesus Christ.All other forms of worship and practice not sanctioned by the god of the Bible is condemned as worshiping satan.Satan is recognised by the bible as the author of all other religions.So from the bibles view anything contrary to the ways of the God of the Bible is condemned as heresy,heathenry,pagan and from the devil. As for where Christ got his power the bible says he recieved all power from god the father.The worship of the queen of heaven was also condemned,and most witches recognise a female deity.
Now if your a christian and practice herbal healing,but dont do the other things mentioned above then that would be acceptable from the bibles view.The bible says that all the herbs of the field were good for man.This would not make you a witch,but a Christian who practices herbal healing.
The point is that the bible gives the definetions of what is of god and whats not;not the so called followers.
I hope I didnt offend anyone,I was just giving the biblical view.Not my own view.
Slainte and Peace!


I would say that, taken as a whole, your post must be limited to a Southern U.S. Protestant perspective. In the rather wide spectrum of Christian Sects many of the No-No's you mention are practiced.

Terry

[Aine of the Fae]

Here's my 2 cents worth.
You can call yourself any thing you wish,thats your perrogative.
But if you look at the Bible.It condemns those who practice,all the things that most connect with witchcraft=Contacting spirits,worshiping other gods,worshiping nature etc.Even the worship of angels is condemned.The only being that may be honored,worshiped,prayed to,sought out in prayers etc is the God of the bible and Jesus Christ.All other forms of worship and practice not sanctioned by the god of the Bible is condemned as worshiping satan.Satan is recognised by the bible as the author of all other religions.So from the bibles view anything contrary to the ways of the God of the Bible is condemned as heresy,heathenry,pagan and from the devil. As for where Christ got his power the bible says he recieved all power from god the father.The worship of the queen of heaven was also condemned,and most witches recognise a female deity.
Now if your a christian and practice herbal healing,but dont do the other things mentioned above then that would be acceptable from the bibles view.The bible says that all the herbs of the field were good for man.This would not make you a witch,but a Christian who practices herbal healing.
The point is that the bible gives the definetions of what is of god and whats not;not the so called followers.
I hope I didnt offend anyone,I was just giving the biblical view.Not my own view.
Slainte and Peace!


Actually no, the Bible does not recognize Satan as the author of all other religions. Satan was not made evil until much later in Christian theology. Satan is the tempter, the tester, a job given to him by God.

I've already made my points again and again, and I'm not going to make them anymore. I'm tired and I'm hurt and I'm just ready to move on.

[savannahrose44]

Here's my 2 cents worth.
You can call yourself any thing you wish,thats your perrogative.
But if you look at the Bible.It condemns those who practice,all the things that most connect with witchcraft=Contacting spirits,worshiping other gods,worshiping nature etc.Even the worship of angels is condemned.The only being that may be honored,worshiped,prayed to,sought out in prayers etc is the God of the bible and Jesus Christ.All other forms of worship and practice not sanctioned by the god of the Bible is condemned as worshiping satan.Satan is recognised by the bible as the author of all other religions.So from the bibles view anything contrary to the ways of the God of the Bible is condemned as heresy,heathenry,People and from the devil. As for where Christ got his power the bible says he recieved all power from god the father.The worship of the queen of heaven was also condemned,and most witches recognise a female deity.
Now if your a christian and practice herbal healing,but dont do the other things mentioned above then that would be acceptable from the bibles view.The bible says that all the herbs of the field were good for man.This would not make you a witch,but a Christian who practices herbal healing.
The point is that the bible gives the definetions of what is of god and whats not;not the so called followers.
I hope I didnt offend anyone,I was just giving the biblical view.Not my own view.
Slainte and Peace!

Actually the passage in the Bible that says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is grossly mistranslated. The word witch origonally was translated "woman."

[PAGANFILES]

Aine,

Your very willingness to be honest will always make you a target of those who believe they must denigrate others personal faith in order to enhance their religious standing in their own mind. This is not a particular religions property it seems to run through the weaker patrons of them all.

Terry

[Aine of the Fae]

Aine,

Your very willingness to be honest will always make you a target of those who believe they must denigrate others personal faith in order to enhance their religious standing in their own mind. This is not a particular religions property it seems to run through the weaker patrons of them all.

Terry

Yes, I know this. But it is very draining and very tiring and really makes me wonder if it's worth being so honest.

[Pol]

Savannah: Woman?

[Brinclhof]

Yes, I know this. But it is very draining and very tiring and really makes me wonder if it's worth being so honest.

It is worth it. If for no other reason than you have spoken up for the rest of us on this path that either don't have the time or don't feel comfortable speaking up for ourselves.

Go Aine Go Aine :thewave:


We thank you. :hailmol:

[Aine of the Fae]

It is worth it. If for no other reason than you have spoken up for the rest of us on this path that either don't have the time or don't feel comfortable speaking up for ourselves.

Go Aine Go Aine :thewave:


We thank you. :hailmol:

Thank you Brinclhof, that means a lot to me!

[savannahrose44]

Savannah: Woman?
Yep. That's what I said. I can't remember now where exactly I found this peice of info, but I did a huge research project on the European witch trials when I was in High School and I remember comming across this...I'll have to do some digging and see if I can find it again, but it made sense when I read it.

[Kern]

Yep. That's what I said. I can't remember now where exactly I found this peice of info, but I did a huge research project on the European witch trials when I was in High School and I remember comming across this...I'll have to do some digging and see if I can find it again, but it made sense when I read it.

Thats wrong the hebrew or the greek does not mean woman.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
All these things are condemned and the ones practicing them will not inhereit the kingdom of heaven in otherwords those that do are not christians, According to the God of the Bible.What ministers and the followers say doesnt matter, the God of the Bible sets the rules not them.
The word witchcraft has to do with all forms of sorcery and magic and comes from the Greek pharmakeia. See 3) and 4)
1) the use or the administering of drugs
2) poisoning
3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

The Hebrew for witch/sorcerer is kashaph and means:
1) (Piel) to practice witchcraft or sorcery, use witchcraft
a) sorcerer, sorceress (participle).

The Bible not me, for I am a pagan and dont follow the bible, condemns it no matter what you,me,the population of 3/4's pf the world etc says.

But once again I am Pagan and not christian,I am not condemning any one.But to say one is of a religion and then doesnt follow what that religion teaches is being a hypocrite for lack of a better word. I mean if someone calls themselves Wiccan yet goes against the Wiccan Rede and practices evil and casts spells to harm people,then are they really Wiccan?
Slainte and Peace!

[Tobias]

Mainline Evangelical Fundimental Christianity has worked very hard to convince many people that their version is the only "True" Christianity. There are entire "ministries" that spend their time resarching all the "heresies" of other Christian denominations and sects, and letting people know how "cult-like" their church is compared to the "Sola Scriptura" foundational doctrine.

However, to be labled a "Christian", one does not have to subscribe to Sola Scriptura (which means "Bible only"). The Catholic and Eastern Orthadox churches both add to scripture with "Holy Tradition". The Mormons add to the Bible with their writtings, and the word of their Prophets.

Fundimentalists THINK that they have a monopoly on the name of "Christian", and I know that any one of us comming out of that setting has to take a bit of time to adjust out thinking to realize that every "Cult", denomination, and professional Psychic who prays to Jesus -- ALL fall under the religious category of "Christian".

[Aine of the Fae]

If you are using the Bible as reference for what makes a Christian a Christian please tell me what version. There are a LOT of them out there. And lets not forget that there are many gospels that were purposely left out by the Catholic church because they didn't "fit" with their neat little idea of what makes a Christian a Christian.

Many Gnostics believe that the God of the Old Testament was an "evil overlord" type of God and that Jesus came to free us. So the Old Testament goes out the door for them. Yet, they are still Christians.

I do not live by the literal words of the Bible, I live by the teachings of Christ, and I look to MANY sources for those, not just the Bible. The Bible is written by man and is fallible, full of errors.

[IvyWitch]

Exactly, not everyone believes that the Bible should be taken literally - that as far as I know is a fundamentalist/evangellical position. I know plenty of wonderful Christians who see the Bible as an inspirational and historical document and understand that many of the things included were cultural admonitions, most of which do not apply to us today. I also don't know too many Christians who follow the dietary laws in the Bible either.

[TaylorE]

You also have to remember that certain books were kept out of the bible, because of the perceived threat to the main message. And transaltions of the bible have always been political...I think the line about not tolerating a witch is actually supposed to be about not tolerating a poisoner...just my 02

[Aine of the Fae]

Exactly, not everyone believes that the Bible should be taken literally - that as far as I know is a fundamentalist/evangellical position. I know plenty of wonderful Christians who see the Bible as an inspirational and historical document and understand that many of the things included were cultural admonitions, most of which do not apply to us today. I also don't know too many Christians who follow the dietary laws in the Bible either.

Exactly! The Catholic church doesn't take it literally, and relies heavily on tradition, and yet they are still considered Christian, well, for the most part anyway.... ask a fundamentalist if a Catholic is Christian and watch out, you're in for it (I know this from personal experience...)

The fundamentalist view of what makes a Christian is extremely limited, however, according to the fundamentalist view I AM A CHRISTIAN!!! I have believed and accepted Christ as my personal savior. However, I don't hold the view that he is the ONLY savior! I believe that each person must find the way that works the best for them to reach union with the divine. For me, that is Jesus the Christ, and many of the Christian traditions, especially (lately anyway) the Catholic traditions. However that does not mean I have to accept the dogma that goes along with it.

[Aine of the Fae]

You also have to remember that certain books were kept out of the bible, because of the perceived threat to the main message. And transaltions of the bible have always been political...I think the line about not tolerating a witch is actually supposed to be about not tolerating a poisoner...just my 02

I used to believe that as well, but the word actually means "witch". Just ask Morr, who knows Hebrew!

However, you must realize also that word usage changes with time, and the way the word "witch" when the King James Version was translated is entirely different than it is now. Languages and cultures evolve and change over time and when reading the Bible you need to keep that in mind.

[IvyWitch]

I used to believe that as well, but the word actually means "witch". Just ask Morr, who knows Hebrew!

However, you must realize also that word usage changes with time, and the way the word "witch" when the King James Version was translated is entirely different than it is now. Languages and cultures evolve and change over time and when reading the Bible you need to keep that in mind.

Yes, it does actually mean witch. But as far as I know (and I could be totally off base) that was not in reference to the pagan religions of the area, but to sorceres who cast evil spells. There are a lot of things in the bible that make sense in a historical and cultural way, but not in an applicable modern sense directly.

Actually, when I was Christian I bought this absolutely excellent Bible study guide text and workbook that had a system for interpreting passages. I don't remember it exactly, but I remember it saying to consider historical and cultural context before making it over the bridge to modern application.

[PAGANFILES]

I believe I can safely say unequivocally that there is no "The Bible." Cultures and cults appear to rehash the "Biblos" at need.

BTW....I have the apocrypha in the Paganfiles archives should anyone wish a copy. <G> Just PM me with your e-mail address and Ill attach on the reply.

Terry

[IvyWitch]

Yeah, there are tons and tons of translations, but I think a lot of Christians would be a little surprised to know that what they're reading is not the Bible.

[PAGANFILES]

Yeah, there are tons and tons of translations, but I think a lot of Christians would be a little surprised to know that what they're reading is not the Bible.

If you want your statement to match the one I made, you must capitaliize both The and Bible. There is no single translation, interpretation, edited bible that is accepted by all the sects of Christianity in its entirety. I have compared more than 100 different flavors of this book. Literally each Christian community reads their founders or leaders book (biblos) of choice. The differences are staggering and contradictory. There is no, The Bible, there are only parochial Bibles.

Grammar is God <BG>
Terry

[Tobias]

In my extensive experience with Bible based Christianity I haven't run into too many differences between any of the various translations available. The big difference between different denominations and sects is in what sort of path they claim that the Bible leads them on. You can pretty much pick what you want from a number of different paths and still call it Christian.

I followed a more mystical path, where we listened to the voice of God and learned to work with the Gifts of the Spirit. Others are more scholarly, where whoever has the most education is the most spiritual. Yet others are anti-materialistic and think that "whoever dies with the least amount of toys wins".

I see Paganism having a similar diversity in it's types of pathways. Some have no real spiritual connection to anything, but enjoy studying and reviving an ancient religion. Others have a deep spirituality and can connect with just about anyone else who's similar despite how far separate their religious paths are from each other. Some emphasis the working of their own abilities; others the tapping into the power and wisdom of their Diety(s).

Faith in the Bible is nessisary for those who use it as a form of Divination. It doesn't matter who wrote it, nor how accurate it really is. Fundimental Christians have accepted it as the Word of God, and Diety speaks to them directly through it when they take time to listen. If you can't believe the Bible, then I doubt you will be spoken to through it! Yet if that is the path that is chosen for you, will you accept Wisdom in whichever form it's offered?

I have a really hard time accepting Astrology myself. But there are others who have found the Voice of Wisdom therein. I keep wondering how the unchanging and calculated movements of asteral bodies as observed from our particular spot in the universe has anything to do with my spirituality. To each his own, I guess.

[PAGANFILES]

You are mistaken.....

Depending on the particular Sect's Bible version, the impregnating of Mary takes place in several different ways. Also, definitively, bibles can not be the same when some sects leave out several books.

But saying any bible is the absolute "Word of God" is a excellent working rationalization for propaganda. . . .BTW, did you know the origin of the word Propaganda....in new latin it literally means propagating the faith and it's 1st usage was by Jesuits.

[Kern]

Exactly my point when I said if you go by the bible and not the so called followers,You cant accept what they say you must go to the source,and I was quoting the Hebrew and Greek meanings not the english.Versions dont apply only the original languages.No church follows exactly what the bible says.

[Aine of the Fae]

Exactly my point when I said if you go by the bible and not the so called followers,You cant accept what they say you must go to the source,and I was quoting the Hebrew and Greek meanings not the english.Versions dont apply only the original languages.No church follows exactly what the bible says.

However, when reading the Bible, even in the original languages, you must take into consideration the culture in which it was written and the fact that word usage changes over the years, quite often dramatically and sometimes even regionally.

Look at the word gay.

[Brinclhof]

The word witchcraft has to do with all forms of sorcery and magic and comes from the Greek pharmakeia. See 3) and 4)
1) the use or the administering of drugs
2) poisoning
3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

The Hebrew for witch/sorcerer is kashaph and means:
1) (Piel) to practice witchcraft or sorcery, use witchcraft
a) sorcerer, sorceress (participle).


The key point think here is that it defines socery as magical arts found in connection with idolatry. As a christo-pagan or christian witch I call only upon the christian God for my strenght and spell work. I am therefore holding to the first commandment thou shalt have no other gods before me, and keeping to the most important commandment from Jesus, love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul. ONly when someone who claims to be a Christian witch or Christo-pagan call upon another God for a source of power do I think they create a conflict.

Jesus said he would grant power to heal and cast out demons to all those who do it in his name. He basically said with that statement that you could perform magical workings as long as you do it in worship of him or his father Jehovah.

This is the key to making Christo-paganism an Christian witchcraft work. You have to be rather careful when doing magick that you don't call on another God to help you with your magick. I'm not saying that I am or that Christo-pagan/Christian witches have to be intollerant or disrespectful of other Gods just that we have to take perhaps more care than others in how we worship and perform magick. We must keep Jehovah, Christ and the Holy Spirit central to our workings.

[Aine of the Fae]

The key point think here is that it defines socery as magical arts found in connection with idolatry. As a christo-pagan or christian witch I call only upon the christian God for my strenght and spell work. I am therefore holding to the first commandment thou shalt have no other gods before me, and keeping to the most important commandment from Jesus, love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul. ONly when someone who claims to be a Christian witch or Christo-pagan call upon another God for a source of power do I think they create a conflict.

Jesus said he would grant power to heal and cast out demons to all those who do it in his name. He basically said with that statement that you could perform magical workings as long as you do it in worship of him or his father Jehovah.

This is the key to making Christo-paganism an Christian witchcraft work. You have to be rather careful when doing magick that you don't call on another God to help you with your magick. I'm not saying that I am or that Christo-pagan/Christian witches have to be intollerant or disrespectful of other Gods just that we have to take perhaps more care than others in how we worship and perform magick. We must keep Jehovah, Christ and the Holy Spirit central to our workings.

Exactly. And by a basic definition of Christianity, anyone who follows Christ/YHWH/Holy Spirit exclusively is a Christian. Notice I said exclusively. I don't feel that including Christ in a pantheon of other gods makes you a Christian. That doesn't mean I disrespect others views of deity, I just believe differently.

[Tobias]

You are mistaken.....

Depending on the particular Sect's Bible version, the impregnating of Mary takes place in several different ways. Also, definitively, bibles can not be the same when some sects leave out several books.

But saying any bible is the absolute "Word of God" is a excellent working rationalization for propaganda. . . .BTW, did you know the origin of the word Propaganda....in new latin it literally means propagating the faith and it's 1st usage was by Jesuits.


No, actually... You are the one mistaken :bigredgri


The differences between the Mormon Bible, the Jehovah's Witness' Bible, the KJV, and all the other modern translations is very minor compared to the different applications of it practiced by it's followers. The wording of the actual text is pretty much set in stone, being translated from a limited number of aicient scrolls that all seem to agree with each other except for a verse or two occasionally.

If you want to compare those who accept the OT apocrapha with those who don't, you still have greater differences in doctrine and general acceptance of the Bible (ie. the Catholic Church accepts the Bible, but only as explained to you by the Catholic Church...), than you do in the text itself.

Also I might add that those who do accept the Apocrapha as part of their Bible, also believe it to be somewhat less inspired than the rest of the books (Deuter-Canonical I believe is the word). This isn't much different than those who don't consider it to be inspired at all, especially when you take into consideration the different deffinitions of the word "inspired". Nobody has gotten any key doctrines out of the Apocrapha, just some interesting trivia... like Tobias was the son of Tobit who with the help of Raphael found a cure for his father's blindness... :)

IOW, the various sects of Christianity are not separated so much over who's version of the scriptures is correct, but over their doctrinal understanding of them.

[Tobias]

Exactly. And by a basic definition of Christianity, anyone who follows Christ/YHWH/Holy Spirit exclusively is a Christian. Notice I said exclusively. I don't feel that including Christ in a pantheon of other gods makes you a Christian. That doesn't mean I disrespect others views of deity, I just believe differently.


My claim to Christianity is not in the exclusive worship of the Holy Trinity. It is in the fact that Diety first came to me in the form of the Christian God. Most of what I know about Diety is defined by Christian terms. But I can see no place for Jesus as anything but a prophet. The whole tinity thing has always confused me, as I have only met One. With all the hype recently over The Passion, I finally faced the questions I had about Jesus and realized that for me he is not divine.

I think that The Divine is gracious enough to reveal itself to us in the form we best understand. Not that we get to decide what form that is, but Diety picks one we can comprehend and insists that we accept that if we wish to recieve any wisdom from him/her(them?). For me it was the God of Christianity, with the condition I accept the Charismatic/Word of Faith "denomination's" teachings.

I guess I have a very Pagan veiw of God. I think Diety can show up as any number of gods or goddesses. It was kind of weird the couple of times when He spoke to me as Mother God, distinctly being female just to prove this point. I believe He shows up to help all the people on this planet, and picks a form of his choosing from their culteral beliefs. I'm rather new at this openmindedness, so please excuse me if what I've said is offensive to anyone. I haven't worked any of the bugs out of this theory yet, or been able to observe much of how it works. :)

[Aine of the Fae]

My claim to Christianity is not in the exclusive worship of the Holy Trinity. It is in the fact that Diety first came to me in the form of the Christian God. Most of what I know about Diety is defined by Christian terms. But I can see no place for Jesus as anything but a prophet. The whole tinity thing has always confused me, as I have only met One. With all the hype recently over The Passion, I finally faced the questions I had about Jesus and realized that for me he is not divine.

I think that The Divine is gracious enough to reveal itself to us in the form we best understand. Not that we get to decide what form that is, but Diety picks one we can comprehend and insists that we accept that if we wish to recieve any wisdom from him/her(them?). For me it was the God of Christianity, with the condition I accept the Charismatic/Word of Faith "denomination's" teachings.

I guess I have a very Pagan veiw of God. I think Diety can show up as any number of gods or goddesses. It was kind of weird the couple of times when He spoke to me as Mother God, distinctly being female just to prove this point. I believe He shows up to help all the people on this planet, and picks a form of his choosing from their culteral beliefs. I'm rather new at this openmindedness, so please excuse me if what I've said is offensive to anyone. I haven't worked any of the bugs out of this theory yet, or been able to observe much of how it works. :)

I don't find it offensive at all. I'm daily trying to work the bugs out of my theories about God and the nature of the Divine. It's what makes me grateful to have MysticWicks. I can post my thoughts and people will come in and wiggle their fingers through the holes letting me know they are there!

[DonovanJoseph]

go aine! go aine! :thumbsup:

*does a lil dance*

[seapearls]

Hi I say you CAN be a christain witch because anyone can be a witch no matter what your faith is since practicing witchcraft isn't a religion. (Thats printed in all my Wiccan books) But I disagree when people say they are a christain-wiccan. I firmly stand that you cannot do both. Since wicca and witchcraft are two different things, witchcraft and any religion mix but just not christianity and wicca.

Enjoy your practices. :)

[Tobias]

I don't find it offensive at all. I'm daily trying to work the bugs out of my theories about God and the nature of the Divine. It's what makes me grateful to have MysticWicks. I can post my thoughts and people will come in and wiggle their fingers through the holes letting me know they are there!

I guess it's just difficult for me to talk about. I've never really fit in as a Christian, but admitting out loud that Jesus isn't God and God is just a form of the Divine... well, it kind of seals my doom on the Christian end of things.

OTOH, one can't really be a Pagan and worship the Christian God and follow the teachings of the Bible. We've seen over and over how well that concept is accepted by some Pagans!

I can't help it. This is the path I'm on, and it feels right. Every day I'm learning and growing more, so I can't complain. I enjoy coming here and learning from you guys, and still enjoy going over to Christian sites and discussing doctrine -- all from my standpoint of knowing God is real and applying my experiences into my phylosophies.

I know that I follow the one and only true God that has ever shown up on behalf of Christianity, so I suppose I shouldn't mind speaking to Christians on His behalf despite how much He chooses to show me about Himself... or Herself...

[Aine of the Fae]

I guess it's just difficult for me to talk about. I've never really fit in as a Christian, but admitting out loud that Jesus isn't God and God is just a form of the Divine... well, it kind of seals my doom on the Christian end of things.

OTOH, one can't really be a Pagan and worship the Christian God and follow the teachings of the Bible. We've seen over and over how well that concept is accepted by some Pagans!

I can't help it. This is the path I'm on, and it feels right. Every day I'm learning and growing more, so I can't complain. I enjoy coming here and learning from you guys, and still enjoy going over to Christian sites and discussing doctrine -- all from my standpoint of knowing God is real and applying my experiences into my phylosophies.

I know that I follow the one and only true God that has ever shown up on behalf of Christianity, so I suppose I shouldn't mind speaking to Christians on His behalf despite how much He chooses to show me about Himself... or Herself...

You're right, you can't be Pagan and Christian at the same time, because a pagan is, by definition, not Christian. However you don't have to be Pagan to be a Witch...

Have you considered looking at Judaism Tobias? Same God, without the Dvinity of Christ.

[Tobias]

You're right, you can't be Pagan and Christian at the same time, because a pagan is, by definition, not Christian. However you don't have to be Pagan to be a Witch...

Have you considered looking at Judaism Tobias? Same God, without the Dvinity of Christ.

Actually, some of my veiws probably come from studying Messianic Judaism a few years back.

I claim Christianity moreso than Judaism because it covers the God of Abraham and the OT as well as the teachings of Jesus and the wisdom and experience of all who have followed the religion up until the present day. Also, my entire culteral heritage is Christian, being raised in a Missionary family overseas and attending Christian schools.

My veiw of things is greatly influenced by the New Age/Pagan mindset, and I think we have a wonderfully unique opportunity at this point in history to learn the wisdom of ALL the religions of the world. I could never be happy in just picking a different religious tradition and following it (like Judaism).

Personally, I see my opinions about Christ's diety as a very minor doctrinal discrepancy that I've been avoiding taking a stand on just because it has such major implications in the minds of other people. I don't see anything wrong with worshiping him either, if a person thinks that Jesus is God, then Diety is just as free to answer as "Jesus" as s/he is to answer as the Holy Spirit or God the Father.

The only difference for me at this point is that I don't believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world, nor was he Diety incarnate when he walked this earth. But... I guess even this shouldn't dampen my claim to Christianity, as their are entire liberal denominations who believe these same things about Christ.

[Aine of the Fae]

Actually, some of my veiws probably come from studying Messianic Judaism a few years back.

I claim Christianity moreso than Judaism because it covers the God of Abraham and the OT as well as the teachings of Jesus and the wisdom and experience of all who have followed the religion up until the present day. Also, my entire culteral heritage is Christian, being raised in a Missionary family overseas and attending Christian schools.

My veiw of things is greatly influenced by the New Age/Pagan mindset, and I think we have a wonderfully unique opportunity at this point in history to learn the wisdom of ALL the religions of the world. I could never be happy in just picking a different religious tradition and following it (like Judaism).

Personally, I see my opinions about Christ's diety as a very minor doctrinal discrepancy that I've been avoiding taking a stand on just because it has such major implications in the minds of other people. I don't see anything wrong with worshiping him either, if a person thinks that Jesus is God, then Diety is just as free to answer as "Jesus" as s/he is to answer as the Holy Spirit or God the Father.

The only difference for me at this point is that I don't believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world, nor was he Diety incarnate when he walked this earth. But... I guess even this shouldn't dampen my claim to Christianity, as their are entire liberal denominations who believe these same things about Christ.

The Unity church is considered a Christian denomination, however they believe in more the "Christ Consciousness" idea than the literal thing.

[Betah]

For the record, I'm not green, old, nor do I have warts or bad breath. :lol:

:huddle: Go girls! (I have yet to see a male Christian Witch.... unless I'm blind?)
Im a male Christian Witch, although I tend to just say that Im a Witch/Mage/Wizard/Etc... when in the company of less open minded Wiccans/Pagans or an Anglican/Christian among the less open minded Christians/Atheists.
Anyone open minded gets what I remember to tell them.
Ahh, well back to my book. :reading: :fpartyhat

[IndigoMoon]

I think it's interesting to hear from all the christian witches that the MW family has. I totally support anyone's right to their own beliefs. And I think that everyone should do what works for them. With that said I don't really understand how someone can be a christian and a witch at the same time. If you are christian and you believe in the word of christ then everything that you do as a witch would be grounds for not entering the kingdom of heavan right. Isn't that the goal of a christian? I don't want anyone to think that I am putting down their choices. But I have to admit to being confused.

[Asthmorte]

just out of curiosity, aine, do you believe in only one god?

[Aine of the Fae]

Yes.

[Asthmorte]

alight. :)

what are your opinions on all the other 'supposed' gods/goddesses? do you think they are merely tales, or possibly a form of the christian God?

[Aine of the Fae]

alight. :)

what are your opinions on all the other 'supposed' gods/goddesses? do you think they are merely tales, or possibly a form of the christian God?

My opinion on that got me into a big argument yesterday :lol: I believe (please notice the words I believe.....) that other deities were made up by people to try to explain something they didn't understand.

[Asthmorte]

My opinion on that got me into a big argument yesterday :lol: I believe (please notice the words I believe.....) that other deities were made up by people to try to explain something they didn't understand.

ah, yes, Ive considered that too. Many gods/goddesses I feel are because of that, though I dont think that is the case with all of them.

I jsut want you to know that I have an immense respect for you, not just because of your religion, beliefs, etc, but because of your kindness, humanity, open mind, vocality, and acceptance. :)

[Aine of the Fae]

Thank you VW, that really means a lot to me.

[Asthmorte]

your welcome:)

one more question..

do you think that non-christians will go to Hell?

[Aine of the Fae]

I think a lot of non-Christians and Christians are already in Hell. I believe Hell is a state of mind that we put ourselves into.

[Asthmorte]

ok, sorry for more questions, but...

then what do you think will happen after death? my understanding is thatheaven or hell is the common belief.

[Aine of the Fae]

I believe in reincarnation, to an extent. I also believe that eventually the world will come to an end, and those who refused to learn the lessons will simply cease to exist. Everyone else will enjoy union with God, regardless of the religious paths they lived in their lives. In fact I believe it's likely that we will live many religious paths throughout our lives and that humanity is evolving toward one faith.

[~*Ginger*~]

My only concern here, is that with the parade, can we please put the horses at the end of the parade?
Please!!!
:jamsessio

[Asthmorte]

I believe in reincarnation, to an extent. I also believe that eventually the world will come to an end, and those who refused to learn the lessons will simply cease to exist. Everyone else will enjoy union with God, regardless of the religious paths they lived in their lives. In fact I believe it's likely that we will live many religious paths throughout our lives and that humanity is evolving toward one faith.

and would that 'one faith' be christianity?

[Aine of the Fae]

and would that 'one faith' be christianity?

Nope.

[Asthmorte]

what would it be then? perhaps a religion unknow for the time being?

[Aine of the Fae]

Yup.

[Asthmorte]

ah, I see. :)

what is your opinion on someone who claims to have had contact with gods/goddesses other than the christian god? an over reactive imagination? hallucination?

[Aine of the Fae]

I don't have an opinion about it. Each person's experience is there own and my having an opinion in no way affects that.

That, and I'm not going to say what I really believe cause it would really get me in trouble :lol:

[Asthmorte]

I don't have an opinion about it. Each person's experience is there own and my having an opinion in no way affects that.

That, and I'm not going to say what I really believe cause it would really get me in trouble :lol:


that makes me even more curious though,lol. tell me:) you wont get in trouble by me. you can pm me :fishtank:

[Aine of the Fae]

I honestly don't have an opinion about it at the moment. My rational mind tells me that it's either a highly active imagination, or a hallucination. However my rational mind tells me faeries and ghosts aren't real, but my personal experience tells me they are. I am, at the moment, trying to figure out what I really believe. And that includes re-evaluating whether or not I can continue as a Christian Witch or if I have to choose one or the other. The re-evaluation will have a profound affect on my beliefs and I'm really not sure in what way.

[Asthmorte]

I honestly don't have an opinion about it at the moment. My rational mind tells me that it's either a highly active imagination, or a hallucination. However my rational mind tells me faeries and ghosts aren't real, but my personal experience tells me they are. I am, at the moment, trying to figure out what I really believe. And that includes re-evaluating whether or not I can continue as a Christian Witch or if I have to choose one or the other. The re-evaluation will have a profound affect on my beliefs and I'm really not sure in what way.


my rational minds often tell me that there are no gods or goddesses, but my personal experience contradicts that. Religion is often an odd, complicated thing. Opinions are forever changing, so I try not to label my religion too much. Im rather interested in what the conclusion if your spiritual evaluation might be. you intrigue me. Youre on of the smartest, most interesting charachters Ive met. I care about you a great deal:)

[Aine of the Fae]

Don't worry. I'm sure everyone will get to hear the conclusion of my spiritual evaluation... if it ever concludes :lol:

[Morr]

my rational mind asks me constantly - "how can people believe in a book that was historically proven & liguisticly proven to be edited, twisted & taken totally out of context, as well as adapted from early Pagan myths?"... I dont necessarily understand it, but I respect it & the people who follow it (unless they are fundies, whom require my butt kicking and smack into reality)..
HOWEVER, my personal experience tells me that the God of this book is real, he's another form of diety who has really - much as details have been changed around in that book, so has he. I believe Y-H-V-H is another God amongst many. I dont see how his existance can contradict other Gods & Goddesses' existance. Same with Jesus (wether he was the son of god or not, but thats a totally diff discuission).

But it kinda sucks that i accept him (though not worship him), yet others who worship him dont accept my Gods (or others)... This is not directed towards you specifically Aine, Gods know I've encountered worse people telling me worse things than you. But your answers triggered my responce.

I mean, even the 10 Comandments acknowlege the existance of other Gods. Y-H-V-H is simply playing a role of a Tribal God demanding his worship first, before the other Gods... Which kinda makes sense if you have a Tribal God. Same with Celtic Tribes - The Tribe's Patron God/Goddess always came first.

[Velvet]

I mean, even the 10 Comandments acknowlege the existance of other Gods.
It does? Sorry, I'm not too up on the 10 comandments.

[~*Ginger*~]

It does? Sorry, I'm not too up on the 10 comandments.
Yes...
3. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

[Velvet]

Yes...
"Thou shalt not have no other god before me."
But that doesn't necesarily mean that there are other gods.

[~*Ginger*~]

*shrugs*
Me, i believe we will be able to create our own worlds, and be Gods, & Goddesses ourselves, before it's all over with.

[Velvet]

I mean I'm not a Christian, but it's their dogma so should we say that yes it absolutely means this even though there are other ways of looking at it.

[~*Ginger*~]

Of course not, there are as many ways to look at it as there are stars in the sky... :ringaroun

[Tzaolunyin]

I think I understand why so many wiccans and pagans are so vehemetly opposed to the idea of a Christian Witch.

It involves the big "C" word.

[Tzaolunyin]

Oh, and Flora:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is commandment number 1, not 3. :) Number 3 is "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

Unless you're Jewish, in which case commandment number 1 is "I am the LORD thy god" and "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is commandment number 2. :)

[eva~]

I think as long as one is honest with oneself most of all, you shall do well. What I think of your Christian Witchery matters very little..I think our peers can influence us greatly, and open our minds to consider possibilities, but in the end, it is our own experience and feelings about them, which will quietly point the way.. :braindrai

[~*Ginger*~]

Oh, and Flora:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is commandment number 1, not 3. :) Number 3 is "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

Unless you're Jewish, in which case commandment number 1 is "I am the LORD thy god" and "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is commandment number 2. :)
Thanks...
I couldn't remember, and went searching.
That's where the site had it listed. :toofless:

[Asthmorte]

my rational mind asks me constantly - "how can people believe in a book that was historically proven & liguisticly proven to be edited, twisted & taken totally out of context, as well as adapted from early Pagan myths?"... I dont necessarily understand it, but I respect it & the people who follow it (unless they are fundies, whom require my butt kicking and smack into reality)..
HOWEVER, my personal experience tells me that the God of this book is real, he's another form of diety who has really - much as details have been changed around in that book, so has he. I believe Y-H-V-H is another God amongst many. I dont see how his existance can contradict other Gods & Goddesses' existance. Same with Jesus (wether he was the son of god or not, but thats a totally diff discuission).

But it kinda sucks that i accept him (though not worship him), yet others who worship him dont accept my Gods (or others)... This is not directed towards you specifically Aine, Gods know I've encountered worse people telling me worse things than you. But your answers triggered my responce.

I mean, even the 10 Comandments acknowlege the existance of other Gods. Y-H-V-H is simply playing a role of a Tribal God demanding his worship first, before the other Gods... Which kinda makes sense if you have a Tribal God. Same with Celtic Tribes - The Tribe's Patron God/Goddess always came first.

thats what Ive always felt

[misschief]

I think I understand why so many wiccans and pagans are so vehemetly opposed to the idea of a Christian Witch.

It involves the big "C" word.i don't have any problem with a christian witch. i have a bunch in my family. but... i'm not wiccan, i'm just a plain old witch.

[DixieWitch]

Actually, I quite agree with this post. It seems amusing to me that there are a number of Pagans who claim that they are the most open minded people in the world, who would never condemn or judge anyone for their religious beliefs, but yet once the word "Christianity" is spoken, those same people come out swinging. It can't be--your beliefs have no merit---you can't do what you are doing, it's not right---blah blah blah
Why the hypocrisy??

NOTE: THIS COMMENT IS NOT DIRECTED TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR!!!!!!
I am just thinking.......I really am curious. :)
I haven't read all the pages of this post yet, but this the first one I read that I had to reply to...Calyx...THANK YOU!! Open mindedness is a beautiful thing.

And Aine, be whatever you want to be. You are your own person and no one can change that. Ignore the closeminded ones...they aren't worth your breath or time of day.

[Dorchadas Síofra]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?

don't let what others say drag you down, it's their opinion, who are they to define what's possible or not?? if it works for you and you find a way to mix them, more power to you :) i would like to find a way to bring the two aspects of myself together b/c i was raised Christian and it is hard to get it out of my head when it's been so programmed into me, but i haven't figured how to make it work, and i'm not sure it's what i want or believe. But if it works for you, then by all means, it's no less possible than anything else.

[Nemesis Descending]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?

It's a difficult subject. I don't understand how it works. But I won't attack you for your beliefs. I'd rather ask questions and try to understand.

I'm truly as puzzled by "Christianity for Witches" as I would be by "meat dishes for vegetarians." But, I suspect that my confusion is based upon my ignorance of what being a Christian Witch means.

I'm curious, and have some sincere questions. Do you believe in the New Testament teachings of Jesus? Do you follow them? If so, what are your thoughts about the New Testament teachings regarding divination being a sin, and so forth?

In Her service,
Nemesis Descending

[Erebus]

If it was good enough for Dion Fortune, it's good enough for Aine of the Fae.

[Betah]

Erebus:Who would Dion Fortune be?
Nemesis Descending:Where in the New Testament does it say that? (side question, in which translation?)

[tygherrayn]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?


Two things.

First of all, anyone that would say you cannot be a Christian and a Witch is just ignorant. You can be anything you want to be. And honestly, so long as your beliefs make you happy and you aren't out harming people left and right, who has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe in?

Second, and this is far more involved, can you explain your beliefs? How do you fit Witchcraft and your Christianity together? A dear friend of mine calls herself a Judeo-Pagan, and her beliefs always fascinate me. I'd love to hear/read more of what you believe.

[Erebus]

Erebus:Who would Dion Fortune be?

:foh: :twitch: :twitch:

Youngins. No concept of history.

Also goes a long way towards explaining why so few people around here have any real psychic defensiveness.

Dion Fortune (http://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/aboutdf.html)

Her most famous work (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578631513/qid=1094729564/sr=8-5/ref=pd_cps_5/104-0720756-8847152?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[Betah]

:foh: :twitch: :twitch:

Youngins. No concept of history.

Also goes a long way towards explaining why so few people around here have any real psychic defensiveness.

Dion Fortune (http://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/aboutdf.html)

Her most famous work (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578631513/qid=1094729564/sr=8-5/ref=pd_cps_5/104-0720756-8847152?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
This one's just the result of someone going on (for about a month, I think) about how they were being "psychically attacked". It turned out to be a mild ear infection.

[Nemesis Descending]

Nemesis Descending:Where in the New Testament does it say that? (side question, in which translation?)

Are you referring to the Bible's position against divination? If so, it's a theme outlawed in the Old Testament. By the time of the New Testament, divination is lumped in with sorcery and "familiar spirits" so it isn't singled out per se in verse (it's inclusive). Astrology was also outlawed in the Bible. Bear in mind that Jesus read from the Old Testament in temple, and based his teachings upon a fullfillment of the Old Testament prophecies.

Here are the classical biblical references:

OLD TESTAMENT:
Exodus 22:18
Leviticus 19:26-26; 19:31; 20:6
Deuteronomy 18:10-11
Isaiah 8:19
Malachai 3:5.
1 Samuel 28:3
2 Kings 21:6
1 Chronicles 10:13

NEW TESTAMENT:
Acts 16:3, 16: 16-18
Acts 19:18,19
Revelations 21: 8


The deuteronomy verses are the most inflammatory (I'll paste what I found):

American Standard Version: There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Amplified Bible: There shall not be found among you anyone who... uses divination or is a soothsayer or an augur or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium or a wizard or a necromancer.

The Answer: Don't let anyone use magic or witchcraft, or try to explain the meaning of signs. Don't let anyone try to control others with magic, and don't let them be mediums or try to talk with the spirits of dead people."

Good News Version: ...and don't let your people practice divination or look for omens or use spells or charms and don't let them consult the spirits of the dead.

James Moffatt Translation: There must be none among you... who practices divination or soothsaying, no augur, no sorcerer, no one who weaves spells, no medium or magician, no necromancer.

Jerusalem Bible: There must never be anyone among you who ... practices divination, who is a soothsayer, augur or sorcerer, who uses charms, consults ghosts or spirits, or calls up the dead.

King James Version: There shall not be found among you anyone ....that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Living Bible: No Israeli may practice black magic, or call on the evil spirits for aid, or be a fortune teller, or be a serpent charmer, medium, or wizard, or call forth the spirits of the dead..

Modern Language Bible: There must not be found among you anyone... practicing divination, or soothsaying, observing omens, applying sorcery, a charmer, a medium, a wizard, or a necromancer.

New American Bible: Let there be not be found among you anyone [who is]...a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, no one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead.

New American Standard Bible: There shall not be found among you... one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

New Century Version: Don't let anyone use magic or witchcraft. No one should try to explain the meaning of signs, don't let anyone try to control others with magic. Don't let them be mediums or try to talk with the spirits of dead people. .

New International Version: Let no one be found among you who ... practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

New Living Translation: Do not let your people practice fortune-telling or sorcery, or allow them to interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead.

New Revised Standard Version: No one shall be found among you who practices divination, or is a soothsayer or an augur, or a sorcerer, or one who cast spells or who consults ghosts and spirits, or who seeks oracles from the dead.

New World Translation: There shall not be found in you anyone ... who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead.

The Promise: Contemporary English Version: ..don't try to use any kind of magic or witchcraft to tell fortunes, or to cast spells or to talk with spirits of the dead.

Revised Standard Version: There shall not be found among you... anyone who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Revised English Bible: Let no one be found among you who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, no... an augur or soothsayer or diviner or sorcerer, none who cast spells or traffics with ghosts and spirits, and no necromancer.


Excuse me now, I need to take a shower. Yuck-o

In Her service,
Nemesis Descending

[Eris3]

On the issue of the commandment "No other gods before me", the early Jewish people were not monotheistic. Even after they discovered Yahweh, they originally believed in the existence of other dieties but chose to worship only Yahweh. There is a term for this that I cannot seem to pull out of my head right now. There is an interesting discussion of the in Karen Armstrong's History of God. Eventually this changed into true monotheism, but that is the reason for the commandment of other gods. Yahweh wanted a pact with Israel.

For those interested in a different sort of Bible, there is a text called The Original New Testament (the Old Testament is obviously not included). The translators went back to the oldest existing documents and re-translated them from a non-religious perspective and taking into account word-usage at the time of the writing. In other words, the text is as close as we can get to an original translation and was translated by non-religious scholars. The books are placed in order of the date they were written, unlike most Bibles.

Edited to add: In my opinion, you can't really go with the Old Testament. A good example of why is Leviticus. In Leviticus the reader is advised that if you sit on the bed of a menstruating woman you must sacrifice an animal, I think it is a dove, in order to purify yourself. To me, this pretty much invalidates Leviticus and also the OT and even the Bible itself, in the Fundamentalist Christian sense of it being the actual "Word of God". And although some will say that the New Testament replaces the rules of the old testament, if I recall correctly Jesus advised his followers to follow Jewish Law. It is both a horrible and funny mental picture to imagine Fundamentalist men sacrificing doves when they sit on their bed while their wife has her period.

But it is in part because I feel I can tear apart the argument about the Bible etc and thus much of popular organized Christianity that I believe a person can be both a Christian and a Witch.

Please excuse my typos.

[CleftOfLight]

people get witchcraft confused with wicca,could you be a christain wiccan,no because they are two different religions.But you can be a christain witch because A) when christainity became the major religion most witches became christain,and B) witchcraft is not a religion but a person who practices magick.
Of course you can be both.Plus doesnt Jesus demand his followers to Cast out demons,heal the sick,and raise the dead.To have faith so strong that you can say to a mountain move,and it moves.Well hello thats witchcraft.
Muahz aine they cant bring you down.

[CleftOfLight]

jesus told his followers tofollow jewish law while he was with them,but not all jewish law,just jewish law jesus taught was neccessry,but after the cruxifiction and reserrection,they followed the laws that jesus taught.Because the new testament begins not with his birth but only after his resserrection,that is when the laws of Jesus take affect.

[Sowelu]

I don't believe in mixing Paganism and Christianity, it's either one or the other.

to each his/her own

[tygherrayn]

It is both a horrible and funny mental picture to imagine Fundamentalist men sacrificing doves when they sit on their bed while their wife has her period.

Actually, this makes more sense than you might think. Especially among the Jewish people. They are all about cleanliness, right? (Please, do correct me if I'm wrong about this ... I'm by no means a Jewish scholar.) So it would make sense that while a woman was in her menses, she would be considered unclean, and that no proper Jewish man would go near her, even to sleep. There has always been a stigma about a woman's cycle .. why couldn't it have come from those times, and for that reason?


Sowelu: I hate to have to say this, but it's that closed-mindedness that makes those of Pagan beliefs such outcasts among the Christian faiths. You're being just as separatist as they are by saying that. Why can't the two 'mix' as it were? I know many Christian or Judeo-Pagans. True, you can't be both Wiccan and Christian .. but you can certainly have both pagan beliefs and still follow your Christian upbringing.

[Sowelu]

True, you can't be both Wiccan and Christian
my basic point!

[tygherrayn]

Wiccan does not = Witch.
Wiccan does not = Pagan.


Thus, your argument is invalid.

[RhiamonButterfly]

Several people over the past few weeks have told me that I can't possibly be a Christian Witch. I have this to say:

If I cannot be a Christian Witch, then you cannot be a Witch at all. A Witch is an ugly, green, old hag with warts and bad breath.

Oh, that's not true you say? That's a stereotype? What do you think you're doing when you say Christianity and Witchcraft don't mix?
Aine...first off, sorry I'm reading this so late....but I can see how you can practice both, as in a way that even while being Christian, I had always had a great interest in the Tarot, and spells and such....people can be whatever they wanna be...that's why we all love this board so much...because no one here thinks we're "weird"...okay, okay I AM weird, but you know what I mean ::wink:: witchcraft is the hardest thing I have had to deal with publically. I am very secretive because I live in the "Bible belt" (no offense to anyone) and people here would probably burn me at the stake..lol...but I am who I am, and I'll take that risk, than to be something I'm not, just for someone else's sake....point being...be what you are and who cares about the rest....you're a Christian, and a witch, and a nice person :)