Jungian Psychology

[SaberWolf]

Lately I've been asking myself: just what exactly is it that I believe? I mean, I know I'm a pagan, no doubt about that, but is there any belief system out there that I could say: "Hey! that's just what I believe! This is a system I can go with!"
I've found myself getting into alot of philosophical debates with alot of the Christians in my school, and trying to defend my beliefs, as well as trying to show my opponent(s) just why it is wrong and ignorant to say why my religious beliefs and practices are "wrong" and that somehow their religion is "right". And I keep getting asked just what do I believe? How can I be a pagan, or a wiccan, or anything, unless I somehow "flaunt" it. (now that just totally outraged me. I mean, I have to show the whole world what I am, what I believe, in order for them to accapt me and my beliefs!?!?! They all think I'm a joke, because I don't belong to any of America's (or the world's) mainstream religions.)
Well, I decided to try and "find myself."
I finally got my copy of "Drawing Down the Moon" and opened it up to the section titled "The Pagan World View." When I started to read about Jungian Psychologist and their theory, it totally struck a chord.

For those of you who don't know (I sure as heck didn't until I read that stuff last week,) Jungian Psychologists have long held that the gods and goddesses of myth and legend actually represent archetypes, real potencies and potentialities deep within the human psyche. James Miller, a professor of religion who relies heavily on Jungian beliefs, has for a long time proposed a "polytheistic psychology" for our modern, complex societies. Jungian believe that these archetypes must be acknowleged and experienced in order for us to be more fully human. A religion/therapy(?) (I couldn't think of a better word) for the masses that would allow everyone to explore each and every aspect of their Self, every facet of the jewel that is their being. Like the bulletproof monk said "to know another is to be wise, but to know yourself is to be enlightened."

So, here is my poll question (finally! ;P):
Do you find Jungain beliefs to be very close to your own philosophies?

[skilly-nilly]

So, here is my poll question (finally! ;P):
Do you find Jungain beliefs to be very close to your own philosophies?


Resounding YES! :fprtyman2

For many years, I have found that what Jung perceived and what I perceive are very very similar (and so, of course, I find him to be brilliantly true).

Not only that, but the tools he defined to look at What-Is with are, imo, eminantly employable, useful, and lead to good understanding.

:boing: , skilly-nilly

[mucgwyrt]

"Jung for Beginners" is a very good book for introducing people to what Jung did in his lifetime.

Jung also believed that there were no such things as "coincidences"; he wrote a book called Synchronicity on it :)

[Mnemosyne]

I like the thoughts of Jung. I've always been interested in Jung's views of the archetypes.
Macha, I didn't know that Jung thought that there were no such things as coicidences. It's weird because a few years ago. Every book that I read, Jung's names popped up. For example, I was studying the I-Ching. There was Jung writing the foreward for it. I was reading about mandalas. There was Jung again. I opened up books on myths. And of course, Jung's ideas were there too. Jung kept on falling me around for a while.

[mucgwyrt]

:lol: Seems very appropriate - maybe it was a message for you to look into his work a bit more :)

edit: ps, I voted for option one and two.

[Imbrium]

I chose somewhat, and secretly believe that I am somewhat wishy-washy.

Anyway, I just beginning to really plumb the depths of jungian psychology and I find it invaluable. Especially concerning his study of alchemy as it relates to personal growth and symbology. Two things that really pack some meaning into the whole idea of witchraft, dreams, and divination.


At this point though, while I think by default that I must be interconnected to the great divine whatever, I do hold on to the premise that there are beings separate from myself. Therefor if I am divine, you are also, and another might be also.....:whatmewor And I have to allow the possibility that I'm not completely in control of things. Maybe I'm just lazy, but that sounds about right to me....

[Imbrium]

:hmmmmm:
OH, I forgot to mention, I'm big on the whole synchronicity thing....

[Theres]

i think Jung's archetypal theory is a good way to explain the Gods, but that doesn't even begin to define Them.
if this approach helps one to reach them, fine. but this shouldn't be the final word. my Goddess is MUCH more than a simple archetype.

[frigga]

I feel that yes, we have the divine in us, but no more or less then the rest of the universe. To me the whole I am god just doesn't do it for me, I guess it's still to seperatist for my liking, but I can totally understand and relate to those who do hold that view. I pull for anyone who believes and holds true that we have divinity in ourselves! :flowers:

[Whisper9999]

Lately I've been asking myself: just what exactly is it that I believe? I mean, I know I'm a pagan, no doubt about that, but is there any belief system out there that I could say: "Hey! that's just what I believe! This is a system I can go with!"
I've found myself getting into alot of philosophical debates with alot of the Christians in my school, and trying to defend my beliefs, as well as trying to show my opponent(s) just why it is wrong and ignorant to say why my religious beliefs and practices are "wrong" and that somehow their religion is "right". And I keep getting asked just what do I believe? How can I be a pagan, or a wiccan, or anything, unless I somehow "flaunt" it. (now that just totally outraged me. I mean, I have to show the whole world what I am, what I believe, in order for them to accapt me and my beliefs!?!?! They all think I'm a joke, because I don't belong to any of America's (or the world's) mainstream religions.)
Well, I decided to try and "find myself."
I finally got my copy of "Drawing Down the Moon" and opened it up to the section titled "The Pagan World View." When I started to read about Jungian Psychologist and their theory, it totally struck a chord.

For those of you who don't know (I sure as heck didn't until I read that stuff last week,) Jungian Psychologists have long held that the gods and goddesses of myth and legend actually represent archetypes, real potencies and potentialities deep within the human psyche. James Miller, a professor of religion who relies heavily on Jungian beliefs, has for a long time proposed a "polytheistic psychology" for our modern, complex societies. Jungian believe that these archetypes must be acknowleged and experienced in order for us to be more fully human. A religion/therapy(?) (I couldn't think of a better word) for the masses that would allow everyone to explore each and every aspect of their Self, every facet of the jewel that is their being. Like the bulletproof monk said "to know another is to be wise, but to know yourself is to be enlightened."

So, here is my poll question (finally! ;P):
Do you find Jungain beliefs to be very close to your own philosophies?

Curious: I have read about Jung's belief in archetypes inlaid into the human psyche. But did he ever delve into the topic of "why are these archtypes there"? And can you go into more detail about what Miller meant by a "polytheistic psychology"? Thx...

[mucgwyrt]

not in the book that I read, but I think they are just established by use and reuse throughout time, recorded in collective memory.

[Phi]

You should definitely read Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa P. Estes, a Jungian psychoanalyst and storyteller extraordinaire. She makes it so clear by using ancient tales as illustations. Each chapter is a little book in itself, so even tho' the book is a thick one, you don't need to read it all at once. It's great. I reread it a lot. It gives me great comfort.

That said, I do believe that the Archetypes in our psyches represent real Beings as well, in some cases. Another example, I think, of "as above, so below." ("below in this instance being below/sub conscious, and above being above the conscious, ie: greater than our minds can easily perceive.) :hehehehe:

[skilly-nilly]

Curious: I have read about Jung's belief in archetypes inlaid into the human psyche. But did he ever delve into the topic of "why are these archtypes there"? Thx...

My personal belief is that the collective unconscious taps into What Is. That is, that Jung (or our collective belief) didn't create those archetypes, but recognized them. Just as we feel ourselves 'coming home' when we find our beliefs.

ymmv, skilly-nilly

[Whisper9999]

My personal belief is that the collective unconscious taps into What Is. That is, that Jung (or our collective belief) didn't create those archetypes, but recognized them. Just as we feel ourselves 'coming home' when we find our beliefs.

ymmv, skilly-nilly

Yeah, from the little bit I've read about him, that's the impression that I've gotten is basically just that it IS. It's kind of accepted, i.e. he observed the phenomenon and discussed/analyzed it...Interesting...

[thok_ragnarok]

I love Jung. But I find it odd anyone into religion would believe in Jung's beliefs as he stated that not only do gods not exist, they are representations of the psyche. Also he states that people use gods to make people feel better when they realized the world didn't care and that there was no meaning to life. He also was very big on balance in life...to love you must feel hate, to be happy you must feel true sorrow.

[mucgwyrt]

I love Jung. But I find it odd anyone into religion would believe in Jung's beliefs as he stated that not only do gods not exist, they are representations of the psyche. Also he states that people use gods to make people feel better when they realized the world didn't care and that there was no meaning to life. He also was very big on balance in life...to love you must feel hate, to be happy you must feel true sorrow.

And he's right. All he's saying is that the Gods aren't individual entities etc, that the Gods are merely aspects of The Divine and the universe's energies.
:whatgives works perfectly for me.

[morrigen]

i think Jung's archetypal theory is a good way to explain the Gods, but that doesn't even begin to define Them.
if this approach helps one to reach them, fine. but this shouldn't be the final word. my Goddess is MUCH more than a simple archetype.

Absolutely. This is much of how I relate to Jungian theory as well.

Better Jung than Freud *shudder*

[mucgwyrt]

lmao
funny thing is, they were best of friends when they started out!

[morrigen]

Indeed.

Jung actually studied under Freud's tutelage, didn't he?

I've just finished doing some stuff with Lacanian re-interpretations of Freud...it managed to reconfirm my initial opinions of his work.

None of the opinions were good ones. :D

[SaberWolf]

Hmmm. I'll try to explain my ideas as best I can right now (soooo sleeepyyyyy) :needcoffe :zzz:
Think of it this way: according to the Chaos theory, all things are connected. This is the reason why spells work, why humans are capable of having so much influence on the world around us. This I know is true.
But I also believe in alot of Jungs hypothesi. I believe that I am my own entity, my own god. I see the world in both animus and pantheist view points. So if the gods only represent archetypes of the psyche, and all things are connected, then the same archetypes exist within everything, only at different levels and intensities. The only confusing part is that no one creature sees any of these archetypes in exactly the same manner, thus the many religions and gods, tho all archetypes are represtented by different images and symbols.

[MorningDove030202]

I generaly get alot out of Jungian psychology but I hesitate to say that "We are God". I would rather say "God is us." Does that make sence? It is a hard idea to articulate.....

Dove

[Bran83]

Ok....

First off Jung had very strong gnostic beliefs and did believe in a higher power. He also studied alchemy and metaphysics.

Secondly, there is much stipulation about the archetypes. Archetypes are images of ourselves we personify to the outside world. Does it mean that deities are only archetypes that we personify and are just personifications of our own psyches, no of course not. We know from personal experience that deities have their own personalities and what have you. Do Jungian psychology say that thats all god is...no.

The archetypes are meant to be a tool to understand our own personalities. Its kind of like the Myers-Brigg personality chart. If you have a lot of charecteristics of Posiedin, you may be emotional, quick tempered, and introverted. You could tap into more Apollo like qualities that would help develop your negative qualities. Its not changing yourself to fit society, but rather help you develop you to be more of yourself.

[MorningDove030202]

Ok....

First off Jung had very strong gnostic beliefs and did believe in a higher power. He also studied alchemy and metaphysics.

Secondly, there is much stipulation about the archetypes. Archetypes are images of ourselves we personify to the outside world. Does it mean that deities are only archetypes that we personify and are just personifications of our own psyches, no of course not. We know from personal experience that deities have their own personalities and what have you. Do Jungian psychology say that thats all god is...no.

The archetypes are meant to be a tool to understand our own personalities. Its kind of like the Myers-Brigg personality chart. If you have a lot of charecteristics of Posiedin, you may be emotional, quick tempered, and introverted. You could tap into more Apollo like qualities that would help develop your negative qualities. Its not changing yourself to fit society, but rather help you develop you to be more of yourself.

Well there are Humanist Pagans who don't litterly believe in actual Gods..... Which is totaly valid IMHO......I'm kind of agnostic myself, siting on that fence between humanism and litteral belief in Gods..... Sometimes when I think Athena is trying to tell me something, I'm not sure if it's litterly her, or if it's my higherself. But according to somethings in my Correllian lessons, your higher self is divine....so perhapse it's both?

Dove

[Karma Chameleon]

Lately I've been asking myself: just what exactly is it that I believe? I mean, I know I'm a pagan, no doubt about that, but is there any belief system out there that I could say: "Hey! that's just what I believe! This is a system I can go with!"
I've found myself getting into alot of philosophical debates with alot of the Christians in my school, and trying to defend my beliefs, as well as trying to show my opponent(s) just why it is wrong and ignorant to say why my religious beliefs and practices are "wrong" and that somehow their religion is "right". And I keep getting asked just what do I believe? How can I be a pagan, or a wiccan, or anything, unless I somehow "flaunt" it. (now that just totally outraged me. I mean, I have to show the whole world what I am, what I believe, in order for them to accapt me and my beliefs!?!?! They all think I'm a joke, because I don't belong to any of America's (or the world's) mainstream religions.)
Well, I decided to try and "find myself."
I finally got my copy of "Drawing Down the Moon" and opened it up to the section titled "The Pagan World View." When I started to read about Jungian Psychologist and their theory, it totally struck a chord.

For those of you who don't know (I sure as heck didn't until I read that stuff last week,) Jungian Psychologists have long held that the gods and goddesses of myth and legend actually represent archetypes, real potencies and potentialities deep within the human psyche. James Miller, a professor of religion who relies heavily on Jungian beliefs, has for a long time proposed a "polytheistic psychology" for our modern, complex societies. Jungian believe that these archetypes must be acknowleged and experienced in order for us to be more fully human. A religion/therapy(?) (I couldn't think of a better word) for the masses that would allow everyone to explore each and every aspect of their Self, every facet of the jewel that is their being. Like the bulletproof monk said "to know another is to be wise, but to know yourself is to be enlightened."

So, here is my poll question (finally! ;P):
Do you find Jungain beliefs to be very close to your own philosophies?


Yes, I've been a big fan of Jung's works ever since I started studying psychcology. I find that it strikes a cord with me as well. I still haven't quite figured out how to define what exactly I believe yet. I sort of see the gods as archtypes and believe that they exist as real enities.

[SqueezetheShaman]

Great thread!

I believe wholeheartedly in this belief. My experiences have led me to "know" that my beliefs are not coming from my own pretty little head, but my scientific side tells me there is no way these Human like Gods and goddesses are playing us like chess up in the big beautiful sky.

one small example....I was just reading a book about how our early ancestors, before being the tool producing humans who could create weapons to defend themself, were the prey from animals such as the lions and tigers and bears, OH MY! and if a group is attacked, it is likely that the strong young men would be the protectors. the sacrifice. There you get the origins of need for a sacrifice of jesus/[insert your favorite dead god here.]

when you start to think, "well how the hell is a collective unconcious any more realistic than the gods of our myths?", you just need to look at a cat born in your home, never in the wild, but still with the same hunting instincts bred into it's subconscious from it's ancestors to know it is real.

[teishabee]

I believe that you can connect to the divine through looking inward. Like in a mediatative state of conciousness and but I also believe that this is different from God and goddess who can be connected to through outward pursuits such as nature.

Much like your own divininess. If that makes sense.

[Dark Phoenix]

Jung in my mind explains a lot, thats not to say the God's are all archetypes their not but we as humans give then traits the subconsciously we can all relate too. Human being have immense power to change the world but do I think we are god's? No, the Gods are part of us but also sperate from us.