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View Full Version : Burial "RIGHTS".



Danustouch
August 12th, 2001, 01:20 PM
I just read this...the article is a few years old..but thought some of you might be interested in it.***************************************************

1999-OCT-?: Wales: Pagan buried as Christian: Bones of a man who lived about 3,000 years ago were found in the Dan-yr-Ogof Sow caves at Abercrave in South Wales, UK. The manager of the caves, Ashford Price, decided the local minister of the Church in Wales, the Reverend Dr. David Phipps should give the Bronze Age man a Christian burial. Price felt that the isolated farming community was mainly Christian. This distressed Mark Kay, a member of the local Celtic Neopagan group, Isis Brigantia. He said: "This is an insult to Pagans everywhere. I would hate to think that someone who found my remains in 3,000 years times would take it upon themselves to bury me as a Christian." The Rev. Phipps disagreed: "We live in a Christian culture and at the end of the day we all believe a God."

Earth Walker
August 12th, 2001, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Danustouch
I just read this...the article is a few years old..but thought some of you might be interested in it.***************************************************

1999-OCT-?: Wales: Pagan buried as Christian: Bones of a man who lived about 3,000 years ago were found in the Dan-yr-Ogof Sow caves at Abercrave in South Wales, UK. The manager of the caves, Ashford Price, decided the local minister of the Church in Wales, the Reverend Dr. David Phipps should give the Bronze Age man a Christian burial. Price felt that the isolated farming community was mainly Christian. This distressed Mark Kay, a member of the local Celtic Neopagan group, Isis Brigantia. He said: "This is an insult to Pagans everywhere. I would hate to think that someone who found my remains in 3,000 years times would take it upon themselves to bury me as a Christian." The Rev. Phipps disagreed: "We live in a Christian culture and at the end of the day we all believe a God."


Everybody needs something to believe in, I believe I'll have a
Pink Lady...heavy on the Vodka. GRRRRRRRRRR!:meanface: :G

A one-track mind -- do his thoughts ever derail?:confused:

reanna
August 13th, 2001, 03:49 AM
ugh!

Some people in the world.......just don't get it!
We do not ALL want to be christian.

**shaking my head........

seawitch
August 18th, 2001, 12:54 AM
same thing happened here in alaska 2 years ago they found a 500 year old native man frozen in the glacier and after dicesting him to determine his lineage they gave him a christian burial i was very hurt for him that his beliefs and traditions were completely ignored although i heard they had traditional dancing and drumming
grrrrr

Mairwen
August 18th, 2001, 02:34 PM
I've wondered for many years (about 20 of them) what these so-called people would think thousands of years from now if someone came along, unburied them, hacked them to bits for "research" and reburied them according to the "new traditions" (whatever they may be). Taht really irks me! It rates just below moving cemetaries on my scale of moronics.:rolleyes: :bad:

Tigerwallah
August 18th, 2001, 08:30 PM
The Mormons baptising people postumulously today and saying that our souls accepted the baptism.

Mairwen
August 18th, 2001, 09:07 PM
*sigh* Yeah right.:bad:

Tigerwallah
August 18th, 2001, 09:48 PM
Is just the vehicle I use for one lifetime. So, honestly, I really don't care what happens to it once I've left. In fact, I often think how great it would be to die somewhere I won't be found for a very long time. I'm more concerned with my soul. Afterall, that IS ME.

I don't think that a person who has lived their entire life Pagan could become Christian because they were interned in a Christian grave. I honestly don't believe that a baptism performed after death makes one any religion other than that which they practiced during their life. I find both to be a little insulting, though.

Danustouch
August 19th, 2001, 03:08 PM
me too. I don't believe that a posthumous baptism, or a burial by anothers' religious beliefs really has any effect on MY soul..however, I do think it is VERY insulting...

Tarot Collector
August 22nd, 2001, 01:30 AM
Wow, I don't know what to make of the Mormon comment, exactly. And I won't say whether what they do is right or wrong, or disrespectful... But I will clarify what exactly they do:

The Mormons baptise by proxy (meaning they have a person go into the water and someone else baptises the person --as if-- they were the deceased person... never do they dig up someones body or bones or remains of the person themselves and baptise the remains) And it is only done for the dead whose names they can confirm as having lived at sometime in the past. Every Mormon I know firmly believes that the "Spirit" of the deceased person on the other side of the veil has every right to accept or reject the baptism.

The Churches policy also discourages anyone from submitting names for proxy baptism that are not ancesters of the person submitting them. And just a couple of years ago, a great controversy arose because the Mormons had proxy baptised some of the victims of the holocaust. As this came to light, the Church very quickly announced that they would be strengthening the criteria for the submitting of names for proxy baptism. (names are submitted by individual members of the church).

The current policy is that names being submitted must be identifiable ancestors of the submitter.

Let me repeat: Every Mormon I know firmly believes that the "Spirit" of the deceased person on the other side of the veil has every right to accept or reject the baptism.

-peace-
-Jesse-

Tigerwallah
August 22nd, 2001, 08:47 AM
My mother gave me up for adoption when I was an infant with the belief that one day she'd find me. Her own father was unknown to her and she had been adopted by her mother's husband.

She went to the Mormon geneology library, which was errected fot this purpose, because it has the most complete geneology records and found us both. The woman there, explained to my mother that they work to link all people back to Mormonism, and save their souls by baptising them into the church, so that they may enter Heaven.

Even if my soul can reject this in the afterlife, it is insulting that the way I lived my life, or the spiritual path I have chosen is not proof enough that Mormonism is not what I'd ever choose for myself. I have a unique perspective on this because my biological family lived in a very very small town in IL. Navoo. This was the town where the Mormon's first settled after leaving Palmyra, NY. It was there that Brigam Young took over for Joseph Smith when he and his brother were lynched for trying to take over the Carthage seat of government in a coupe d'etat.

Look, I am a direct decendant of Charlemagne, who was the "great" Crusader, but just because my ancestor mercilessly killed pagans and forced Christianity down the throats of all he conquered, does not mean that I embrace Christianity, and would be insulted if the Pope had any Christian ceremony for my soul because, beyond all, it would tell me that there was no respect for my path or my own ability to make decisions about my personal path.

But, that's just the way that I am. I get a little touchy about this kind of stuff.