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Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 01:30 PM
The following is a rant about co-sleeping. If you co-sleep and you get offended easily, then I suggest you don't read this thread, because I'm not going to respond to any outraged responses.

Co-sleeping is the big thing lately, along with various other "attachment parenting" techniques. My problem with co-sleeping is it doesn't seem to teach a baby to be independent. It doesn't teach him to sleep through the night or by himself, and doesn't teach him to go to sleep by himself. I can hear all those who co-sleep jumping up now and saying "yes it does!!"

"Oh really?" I say. So explain to me why on one parenting forum and one parenting mailing list I'm constantly hearing about problems from those who co-sleep. Baby/toddler wakes up 6 times a night to nurse....baby/toddler needs mommy to lie down with him for naps, baby/toddler needs to be nursed down to sleep.

My son has slept in his own crib in his own room since he was 3 months old. He slept in a bassinet beside the bed before then. Currently he puts himself to sleep and sleeps 8 hours before waking for breakfast, then he sleeps for another 3 hours. He goes down easily and takes 1-2 hour naps, twice a day.

So really...is the baby in your bed to bennifit you or your baby? You say that the baby needs you to comfort him? Give him a soother, or a teddy bear or a blanky. Kids have to learn to self sooth eventually! You say it's easier to feed him if you can just let him latch on and go back to sleep....baby's past the age of 6 months shouldn't have to eat at night anyway, if they're getting enough during the day. He's just using you as a pacifyer -- buy him one!

The more I listen to mom's talk about co-sleeping, the more it seems that they do it so they can be as close to baby as possible at all times, not because of some magical benifit it has for the baby. And it's this touchy feely aspect of parenting that is to blame for increased number of messed up kids. IMO, of course.

Okay, I'm done now. I know that these arguments aren't very rational and can probably be beaten down rather quickly by people applying logic. But I'm not being logical. I'm only stating what has been on my mind for a rather long time. I decided to choose one aspect of attachment parenting rather than attacking the entire thing.

Shanti
July 12th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Pros and cons are on both sides. Its just personal preferrance. What works for one may not work for another!

Nothing to get uptight about to me. It doesnt matter what other moms do or dont do. I do what works for my family.

SilverClaw
July 12th, 2004, 01:40 PM
My problem with co-sleeping is it doesn't seem to teach a baby to be independent. It doesn't teach him to sleep through the night or by himself, and doesn't teach him to go to sleep by himself. I can hear all those who co-sleep jumping up now and saying "yes it does!!"

OK first of all I have done the co-sleeping thing with two of my three kids and I have had no problem with them sleeping through the night, and they are very independant. I just do not see what the fuss is about.

Also what works for one parent does not mean it will work for others, and just cause it does not work for some parents does not make it wrong to do either.

.

Shanti
July 12th, 2004, 01:43 PM
OK first of all I have done the co-sleeping thing with two of my three kids and I have had no problem with them sleeping through the night. I also have very independant children who do sleep trhough the night.

Also what works for one parent does not mean it will work for others, and just cause it does not work for some parents does not make it wrong to do either.


PS Shanti sorry you posted before I saw - did not mean to sound like I was copying your stament.

I didnt think it that way. Its ok! :flowers:

Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 01:48 PM
OK first of all I have done the co-sleeping thing with two of my three kids and I have had no problem with them sleeping through the night, and they are very independant. I just do not see what the fuss is about.

Also what works for one parent does not mean it will work for others, and just cause it does not work for some parents does not make it wrong to do either.

.

Oh, I know. Like I said, I wasn't being logical. And I in no way meant that it works that way ALL the time. Just in my observations a whole lot of co-sleeping parents have a lot of problems.

And yes, Shanti, it's totally up to the parent. I don't care if other parent's choose to do it, I was just making the point that those who do choose to do it seem to have problems that would (possibly) be fixable if they didn't do it in the first place.

Like I said, it was an illogical rant...just something that's been on my mind for a while....

zehava
July 12th, 2004, 01:48 PM
yeeesh. as a co-sleeper i'm trying not to take this personally. but really, i'm getting pretty tired of NON co-sleepers ranting and raving and telling us how we're all so wrong when (personally) i haven't met a co-sleeper who rants and raves about how the choices non co-sleepers are wrong.

it's a personal parenting choice. and to say it messes up kids is going a bit far... i can just as easily say the shoving a rubber binkie into a crying baby's mouth messes them up too.

so, i wonder, why, as a non co-sleeper, are you so upset about this? nobody is upset about your choice to NOT co-sleep, so why spend time and energy being peeved at parents who choose to co-sleep?

-z

Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 01:58 PM
so, i wonder, why, as a non co-sleeper, are you so upset about this? nobody is upset about your choice to NOT co-sleep, so why spend time and energy being peeved at parents who choose to co-sleep?

-z

Good question :) I wouldn't say that I'm peeved. It just came to me that a lot (the majority, really, seeing as how it's so popular) of the people I've heard talk about the sleeping problems their baby's have are co-sleepers. (Did that make sense?) And I thought about it and came to the conclusion that if they didn't do it, they wouldn't have the problems. And yes, of course there are some, probably a lot, of parents who DONT co-sleep who also have problems -- that's what make my rant illogical.

I am in no way saying that it's wrong to do. Parenting is a very personal choice and I'm aware of that. I'm just saying that it seems to cause more problems than it solves.

Tzhebee
July 12th, 2004, 02:02 PM
I'm a co-sleeper mom and I don't take any offense. My son just turned one last month and he still sleeps with me.

He also has plenty of independance. He naps in his crib or playpen by himself. Some nights he will fall asleep by himself and I will place him in his crib to sleep, some nights I put him in my bed to sleep.

In my case, it's more me not wanting to let go of my baby than any other excuse. He sleeps through the night and doesn't seem to care where, as long as he has his pillow...but I'm still trying to hold onto my baby...so he's my soother more than I am his.

MarinaSulis
July 12th, 2004, 03:40 PM
I'm a cosleeper. My daughter doesn't have any problems sleeping, except that she does wake more frequently when teething or sick to nurse, and I'm more than happy to give her that.

I'm not offended, but I do think it's funny when people look at cosleeping like it's the "new thing," and it's messing kids up. Um, the human race has been cosleeping with their babies for millenia, and most of the world still does it. If the conclusion is that the last several generations in the Western world are better balanced, healthier, and more well-adjusted than any other culture, well -- that makes me giggle.

Children, by their very nature, are dependent. If they weren't, they'd have their own apartments and jobs and lives. Levels of self-confidence and independence vary with age and temperament. Cosleeping doesn't cause dependence. If it does, better get cracking and tell every other mammal in the world that they're doing it all wrong. Get those bear cubs into a crib, or they'll never be able to catch their own salmon!

;)

morrigen
July 12th, 2004, 07:18 PM
I'm surprised.

Amethystrose, if you personally don't co-sleep, and therefore have no "co-sleeping related problems" yourself, why are you having a problem with other people's parentng choices?

It works for some families, it doesn't work for others...everyone makes ther own choices.

Worrryng about other people's parenting choices and denigrating them is only gong to get you worked up about something that is really someone else's personal choice...and unless someone is actively asking for your advice abouut their co-sleeping descisions, gah...you know I'm trying to think of a gentle way to say this...I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, I'm just tired of so many of the more conservative parenting types attacking alternative choices.....

OK. It's really no-body's business but the family involved.

I support every familiy's right to make their own concentious parenting descisions, whether that be trraditional western societal ones, or others that are consdered more alternative....I mean, and this is the first time I've said this to anyone, but I personally find the use of a binky disturbing...but hey, if it works for you, go for it! I would not attack your choice to do so.


I think parents, especially mothers, should be more supportive of each other,and our abilities to know what is best for our individual families, rather than pulling down other's descisions, and promoting our own at their expense.

mara
July 12th, 2004, 07:27 PM
I agree with you, kids need their own beds and need to be able to fall asleep by themselves. Unfortunately, I was always so afraid of SIDS that I had to let my kids sleep with me. I nursed all 5 of my kids and I was always so tired that it was easier just to let them sleep with me instead of getting up constantly. My husband works nights and always has, so it was pretty easy to get into the habit..my 8 year old still has troubles sleeping in his room, and I really wish I had done things differently.

Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Okay....read carefully. For the second time..... I DO NOT think that it is a bad thing for people to co-sleep. I DO NOT have problems with other parents doing it. I support every parent's right to parent the way that works for them.

What I was writing was that it seems that many co-sleepers have sleeping problems, and therefore TO ME the solution seems to be not to co-sleep, so I don't understand why they continue doing it. In the observations I have made, co-sleeping seems to cause a variety of sleeping problems. All the power to you for doing it, but that's just an observation I've made.

blugirrl1
July 12th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Well I don't have an opinion one way or the other. In my mind it is up to each indivual parent to parent the way that works best for them. But, lol always a but.. in my house my youngest who is 3 has her own toddler bed in her room that she shares with her brother but also sleeps in my bed with me some nights. basically she goes to bed wherever she feels she needs to be. If me and my husband need our private space we simply move her to her room. My son who is 9 has pretty much always been a seperate sleeper. minus the early infant months but sometimes ( and i do mean rarely) even he will climb into bed with me. basically in our house our bed is open to our kids if they need/want to. It works for us but i know that every family does things differently.

Faeawyn
July 12th, 2004, 07:51 PM
I have 2 children that are my life. I have spent every second of my life, since they were born, trying to do the "right" thing. I've read books, watched videos, studied on whats best for kids....and they still grow up with problems.
In my opinion....kids in our society, in general, are going down hill. I don't know what we're doing wrong....but they're growing up over weight, lazy, their morals and values are declining. Not all kids mind you....but a higher percentage each generation seems to be getting screwed up :(

Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 07:54 PM
In my opinion....kids in our society, in general, are going down hill. I don't know what we're doing wrong....but they're growing up over weight, lazy, their morals and values are declining. Not all kids mind you....but a higher percentage each generation seems to be getting screwed up :(

I personally think that it has something to do with an increase in parents who don't discipline their children....but that's a whole other thread. :)

LacyRoze
July 12th, 2004, 08:25 PM
My personal feeling on this is..... People can rant and rave about this and that all they want. I don't give a rip. I do what is best for my family and I let other people worry about theirs. We all have different ways of doing things and it's our own personal choice. I think we all as humans, mothers, fathers, etc. need to be more supportive of each other and these personal decisions. They may not be right for you and that's just fine and dandy but don't go telling others that they're wrong...:smile:

MarinaSulis
July 12th, 2004, 09:23 PM
What I was writing was that it seems that many co-sleepers have sleeping problems, and therefore TO ME the solution seems to be not to co-sleep, so I don't understand why they continue doing it.

Many non-cosleepers also have sleep problems. My neighbors have never coslept, used Cry It Out, and they have a 3 year old that screams half the evening to be let out of her room and come into their bed.

The same argument could also be used for anything else. Problems breastfeeding? Just quit, then.


In the observations I have made, co-sleeping seems to cause a variety of sleeping problems. All the power to you for doing it, but that's just an observation I've made.

There's lots of good science behind cosleeping. Check out any work by Dr. James McKenna of Notre Dame.

Here's the thing: kids come with all kinds of sleeping personalities. Just because someone cosleeps, and has a child with sleep issues, does not mean the cosleeping caused it; in fact, they might have more severe issues with sleeping had they not. Additionally, it's normal, physiologically, for children to have shorter sleep cycles than adults. Nightwaking is not necessarily a "problem," unless the parent has an expectation that the kid shouldn't be doing it. In fact, there is some scientific speculation that abnormally long and deep sleep periods in infants contribute to SIDS.

Cosleeping cultures, such as Japan, have extremely low rates of SIDS.

So, casual observation does not a causative factor make. In other words, just because you think cosleeping causes sleep issues, doesn't mean it does, or that people are being stubborn/silly by continuing to do so.

FWIW, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing; I want to be sure that people who are not familiar with cosleeping who happen to read this get a balance of information.

Hope
July 12th, 2004, 09:30 PM
soft smile

i think the real issue behind this is probably that you are sick of people blaming their choice to co sleep on the problems they have with their kids

lets be honest we all know a family or two whos children (as early as pre two) run the house and run the parents, and the parents are already making excuses why....

and the truth is it really isn't about where the child sleeps or slept


love
hope

morrigen
July 12th, 2004, 09:44 PM
Okay....read carefully. For the second time..... I DO NOT think that it is a bad thing for people to co-sleep. I DO NOT have problems with other parents doing it. I support every parent's right to parent the way that works for them.

What I was writing was that it seems that many co-sleepers have sleeping problems, and therefore TO ME the solution seems to be not to co-sleep, so I don't understand why they continue doing it. In the observations I have made, co-sleeping seems to cause a variety of sleeping problems. All the power to you for doing it, but that's just an observation I've made.

I did read carefully. I am not an ignorant person.

In your original post, you stated that you did have a problem with co-sleeping. You then asked co-sleeping parents to justify their choice to do so! You went on to base your problems with co-sleeping on anecdotal evidence..ofcourse no one is going to complain if somethiing works for them...you are collecting negative data from a dodgy information source.

In the following paragraph, you criticized parents who co-sleep, and went on to tell them how to do things your way....with a very condescending tone.

You know, what works for you, works for you. But that doesn't mean that everyone else's methods are inferior.

You worded your post in a way that suggested that methods other than your own are responsible for the demise of well brought up children...that's not supportive.

Also, I think that adding IMHO or similar at the end of each paragraph does not rescind your responsibility for your words. Almost everything on these boards are opinions...and while you have every right to express yours...turning around in the same breath and attacking another's descision to choose something as personal as a child-rearing method, and then telling them how they "should" be doing it seems very unsupportive indeed.

Perhaps you meant to convey a different sense of tone...I am assuming that you do not feel that yours is the only method...but it did come across that way. You also know that I support parental differences, as I have supported yours in the past, even though our methods are very different.

LadyTrinity
July 12th, 2004, 09:46 PM
Co-sleeping was never my thing. I have had my son in bed with me to cuddle but he was always put back in his crib for the rest of the night. He was always in his own room. I bought a crib for a reason. Thats what they are for. :thumbsup:

Selba
July 12th, 2004, 09:55 PM
Personally, my family never really followed the co-sleeping idea and I don't know another family who has. The only time that my sister or I slept in my parents bed was when we had a nightmare and even then I was known to get up and go back to my own bed.

I think Amethyst is right, children have to learn to be independant and learn to sooth themselves. It's just some mothering smothering.

Kadynas
July 12th, 2004, 10:02 PM
My mother does this with my baby brother and he's almost 5 years old and still won't sleep in his own bed! Me and my other brother had cribs.

The comment I gotta ask here though, is what do the /hubbies/ think about it? I mean, how are you supposed to /ever/ get... um, romantic, with your kid sleeping between you? :lol: One would think that it doesn't really teach your kids a respect for your privacy...

morrigen
July 12th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Kadynas...my partner is more than happy to have a "family" bed.

And we have special government permission to have sex outside of the bedroom :D

(I wish I could claim that line as my own, but someone else on here used it ages ago)

Seriously, we're usully more likely to be in the mood at times other than bedtime, when we're often too tired :)
And as for privacy, well, the little guy has his own room ready, we're just waiting until we feel it's time for him to sleep in there...currently we still feel that he needs us closer.

We've encountered nothing but positives frrom the whole experience.

Temair
July 12th, 2004, 10:49 PM
I have had my kids in my bed for the first couple of months. I was also given a portable wicker bassinette for my baby shower. I put the baby in the bassinette right beside the bed when I wanted hubby time, until they outgrew it (usually around 3 months old, my kids are huge), then I replaced the bassinette with a crib mattress. My oldest was 15 months when she got her own room, and I was still nursing her to sleep at night. It was very hard for me, especially since I was divorcing her father at the same time. When her sister was born, she was sleeping in a twin bed, so by the time my second was sleeping through the night, I put her in the same bad as my oldest (we didn't have the money or room for a second bad). The third child was the same way, but by then we had extra beds and she went into her own bed in her sisters' room. My youngest currently sleeps on the crib mattress on the floor next to my bed (which is also on the floor). It gives all the convenience of co-sleeping, and all the room in the bed of not co-sleeping. Yes, sometimes I will bring her into the bed with me if she is waking a lot, but not usually. I understand that there are contraptions that will hold a baby bed that you can anchor under your mattress for the same effect as my crib mattress. Rowan's "crib walls" are the wall on two sides and my bed on a third. It has plenty of room for her and I don't need to fear her falling. I have found this to work best for me.

Amethyst Rose
July 12th, 2004, 11:46 PM
I did read carefully. I am not an ignorant person.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything of the sort



In your original post, you stated that you did have a problem with co-sleeping. You then asked co-sleeping parents to justify their choice to do so! You went on to base your problems with co-sleeping on anecdotal evidence..ofcourse no one is going to complain if somethiing works for them...you are collecting negative data from a dodgy information source.

In the following paragraph, you criticized parents who co-sleep, and went on to tell them how to do things your way....with a very condescending tone.


Actually I said that "the problem with co-sleeping is..." not that I had a problem with it. :) But that's just nitpicking. I never claimed to have scientific evidence or anything, I said that I was basing my opinion on my observations of other parents, which I am completely aware is anecdotal. And I never asked parents to justify why they're doing it, I only asked if they were doing it for their benifit or the baby's. I also never criticized anyone. Show me where I did. I simply gave my answers for the excuses to co-sleeping that I have heard. Sorry if you thought it was condescending.



You know, what works for you, works for you. But that doesn't mean that everyone else's methods are inferior.


I never said that they were.



You worded your post in a way that suggested that methods other than your own are responsible for the demise of well brought up children...that's not supportive.

Also, I think that adding IMHO or similar at the end of each paragraph does not rescind your responsibility for your words. Almost everything on these boards are opinions...and while you have every right to express yours...turning around in the same breath and attacking another's descision to choose something as personal as a child-rearing method, and then telling them how they "should" be doing it seems very unsupportive indeed.


You got me there. My post was a rant and not meant to be supportive. However, like you said, I'm entitled to state my opinions, so long as I don't disrespect anyone in the community (so say the rules). I'm not going to pussy foot around what I want to say because I might offend someone. That's why I put a warning at the beginning of my post, and at the end wrote that I wouldn't respond to outraged responses. I KNEW I would piss at least one person off. I'm not going to defend myself anymore, because I don't think it's needed. You can't please all of the people all of the time.....



Perhaps you meant to convey a different sense of tone...I am assuming that you do not feel that yours is the only method...but it did come across that way. You also know that I support parental differences, as I have supported yours in the past, even though our methods are very different.

It was a rant, and as such the tone was sour. That said, parents can go ahead and do whatever the heck they want with their children -- they're their children after all.

Starpixie
July 13th, 2004, 12:03 AM
I have co slept with all three of my children, and we have not had any problems. My three year old and my two year old sleep in their own bed and my 6 month old shares mine.
My kids are also very independent, and I am sure that if their dad was here, we would have no seperation issues at all.
I say don't knock something till you try it.

Romani Vixen
July 13th, 2004, 04:05 AM
My cats are my babies, and they sleep with me. Does that count?

:D

sorry... I couldn't help it...

Kelley
July 13th, 2004, 07:22 AM
My cats are my babies, and they sleep with me. Does that count?

:D

sorry... I couldn't help it...

Only if they start beating at the door to get in the bathroom right after you sit down. Then you have a problem :D

"Mommy I can't see you, let me in!" famous quote of my kids...(until they found the keyhole).

Faery-Wings
July 13th, 2004, 07:55 AM
soft smile

i think the real issue behind this is probably that you are sick of people blaming their choice to co sleep on the problems they have with their kids

lets be honest we all know a family or two whos children (as early as pre two) run the house and run the parents, and the parents are already making excuses why....

and the truth is it really isn't about where the child sleeps or slept


love
hope

ITA hope.
I think it has more to do with the actual parenting than the idea of co-sleeping. Persoanlly, co-sleeping is not for me. First off, I had a water bed when both kids were babies. Secondly *I* feel that my bed is for me and hubby. My kids have *always* been welcome to come cuddle in the mornings, but the bed is mine (ok ok- also the dog's and the cats' :weirdsmil )
My son had severe colic (screamed almost non-stop til he was six months old) and I was a nursing mom I tried nursing him to sleep inthe begininning, but soomn realized that if I *ever* wanted to sleep longer than 10 mintues again, I needed to Ferberize him. My DD was not as drastic a case and she also needed more attention as she had some nasty reflux and would throw up out of her nose so I was terrified that she would choke-- but both of my kids are awesome sleepers. The will put themsleves to sleep, any where and any time. The sleep straight through and almost never need to get up for a "drink of water" or a nightmare.

I think (forgive me if I am wrong) that AR's gripe is more about the sound of hypocracy that she hears from the co-sleeping moms who say that co-sleeping is the best way to go for them, and then in the next breath say what horrible sleepers their kids are.

and as always- to each his own :)

Amethyst Rose
July 13th, 2004, 10:30 AM
I think (forgive me if I am wrong) that AR's gripe is more about the sound of hypocracy that she hears from the co-sleeping moms who say that co-sleeping is the best way to go for them, and then in the next breath say what horrible sleepers their kids are.




Yes! Thank you. You said it better than I (obviously) managed to, thank you.

Hope
July 13th, 2004, 12:00 PM
smiles

love
hope

MoonWeed
July 13th, 2004, 03:19 PM
I did the co-sleeping thing..Never again. It neither benefitted my child or me.She's 6 now and has only slept by herself for the last year. I had no life whatsoever, I had to laydown EVERY single time she slept. I also nursed, so in some cases yes it was easier for me so that I could actually get sleep.But I seriously regret ever starting her on it.
She cannot sleep in her own room, cuz she's too far away from me.So she sleeps on my couch. It drives me nuts,but if that's all I can do then so be it.
I think if it changes when they are a year old or so maybe its not so bad. But it jsut messes them up for any future normalcy of sleep patterns.JMHO
I babysit a child now that since she's 2 mths old will be put in the crib and goes to sleep ALL ALONE..LOL This was a shocker to me..OMG they can do it by themselves and they won't die over the situation LOL I can put her down and walk away..What a concept LOL I know better now and will not ever make the same choice with my next child. Granted I loooooove snugglin with my baby, but she's not a baby anymore and she literally is like sleeping with a cement tentacled octupus LOL I feel like out of my conveince and need for her to be with me ,has kinda messed her sleeping up.And for that I feel really bad.
Its great for families that choose to do this, but lemme tell ya down the line it turns into much more then you ever expect.
(please don't bash me this is my own personal experience)

Chibi-Fallon
July 13th, 2004, 03:57 PM
What if you have twins, or Irish twins? How do you keep them from rolling on each other and bugging each other and whatnot? That seems like it would be much more trouble then it's worth. And isn't it weird if you umm.... want some and then there's your kid? That's gotta kinda kill things. What do you do, just go for quickies while they're glued to SpongeBob?
God I never want children.

MarinaSulis
July 13th, 2004, 04:59 PM
You know, I think it's interesting that the cosleepers in this thread have made no judgement whatsoever on crib-sleeping, but several people have said that cosleeping "creates dependency," or "messes [kids] up for normal sleep patterns" and "it's mothering smothering."

Despite the fact that no one has addressed anything I've said in this thread, I think it's pretty rude to say that my [practiced for thousands of years, all over the world, natural behavior] parenting practice is messing up my perfectly normal kid. There's quite a difference between saying it's not for you, and making a value judgment against it, like the statements above.

I'm not offended that you don't cosleep, but I am offended when anyone says -- with no basis in fact -- that it's smothering on my part or it's warping my kid. (Oh, and the "buy a pacifier" statement? That was right up there, too.)

To clarify: difference of opinion? That's great! Discussion is partly how we all learn. Making an unsupported judgement? Just not cool.

MoonWeed
July 13th, 2004, 08:08 PM
I made a choice to co-sleep, it jsut didn't work out. I now have a 6 yr. old that won't sleep in her own bed. I have tried everything to help her and I jsut can't.
I am with my new husband and don't feel it's right for her to sleep in our bed.Hes great about letting her stay with me if she's having a bad night or sick.
She still sleeps with her father in his bed. But with school and her being older I would like for her to have peaceful sleep.Not the case tho most times.
I am not against anyone co-sleeping, I did it for 5 years. But how do you break them of it?My sister slept with my mom till she was 11.
I am not sure how else I am to feel, as I was the one that put her in my bed.But I do feel as tho she's not sleeping as well as she could...And I feel as tho thats my fault.
I jsut feel as tho its not in MY best interest to do this with my next child..
I never meant to offend anyone, just commenting on my own experience.

soilsigh aingeal
July 13th, 2004, 10:17 PM
The following is a rant about co-sleeping. If you co-sleep and you get offended easily, then I suggest you don't read this thread, because I'm not going to respond to any outraged responses.

Co-sleeping is the big thing lately, along with various other "attachment parenting" techniques. My problem with co-sleeping is it doesn't seem to teach a baby to be independent. It doesn't teach him to sleep through the night or by himself, and doesn't teach him to go to sleep by himself. I can hear all those who co-sleep jumping up now and saying "yes it does!!"

"Oh really?" I say. So explain to me why on one parenting forum and one parenting mailing list I'm constantly hearing about problems from those who co-sleep. Baby/toddler wakes up 6 times a night to nurse....baby/toddler needs mommy to lie down with him for naps, baby/toddler needs to be nursed down to sleep.

My son has slept in his own crib in his own room since he was 3 months old. He slept in a bassinet beside the bed before then. Currently he puts himself to sleep and sleeps 8 hours before waking for breakfast, then he sleeps for another 3 hours. He goes down easily and takes 1-2 hour naps, twice a day.

So really...is the baby in your bed to bennifit you or your baby? You say that the baby needs you to comfort him? Give him a soother, or a teddy bear or a blanky. Kids have to learn to self sooth eventually! You say it's easier to feed him if you can just let him latch on and go back to sleep....baby's past the age of 6 months shouldn't have to eat at night anyway, if they're getting enough during the day. He's just using you as a pacifyer -- buy him one!

The more I listen to mom's talk about co-sleeping, the more it seems that they do it so they can be as close to baby as possible at all times, not because of some magical benifit it has for the baby. And it's this touchy feely aspect of parenting that is to blame for increased number of messed up kids. IMO, of course.

Okay, I'm done now. I know that these arguments aren't very rational and can probably be beaten down rather quickly by people applying logic. But I'm not being logical. I'm only stating what has been on my mind for a rather long time. I decided to choose one aspect of attachment parenting rather than attacking the entire thing.
Pretty much how I feel... PLUS I'm one of those horrid parents who had no more hair in my head to pull out and used the cry it out technique. Two episodes of 25 minutes of crying worked like a charm.

Edit: Ok, not exactly, I didn't think about it until I just read another post. In the end, it would be the parents who complain about it, because when someone complains about something, that is what sticks in your mind. But you also remember parents who claim it to be so great and there ARE parents (not pointing fingers here but on other parent boards I have seen all out wars on the subject) who act as if not doing attachment parenting or co-sleeping is the worst possible thing that anyone can do for a child. And when you hear that your method is wrong you get mad. And that goes both ways. I know that attachment parents get their feelings hurt just as well as those who don't do it get theirs hurt.

Temair
July 13th, 2004, 11:11 PM
I made a choice to co-sleep, it jsut didn't work out. I now have a 6 yr. old that won't sleep in her own bed. I have tried everything to help her and I jsut can't.
I am with my new husband and don't feel it's right for her to sleep in our bed.Hes great about letting her stay with me if she's having a bad night or sick.
She still sleeps with her father in his bed. But with school and her being older I would like for her to have peaceful sleep.Not the case tho most times.
I am not against anyone co-sleeping, I did it for 5 years. But how do you break them of it?My sister slept with my mom till she was 11.
I am not sure how else I am to feel, as I was the one that put her in my bed.But I do feel as tho she's not sleeping as well as she could...And I feel as tho thats my fault.
I jsut feel as tho its not in MY best interest to do this with my next child..
I never meant to offend anyone, just commenting on my own experience.
How about making her a Mommy doll? You could make a snuggly dolly and then fill it with your love. When you give it to her, explain that it is her mommy doll and when she wants to sleep with Mommy, just hug the doll close and all your love will be right there with her.

Autumn
July 13th, 2004, 11:54 PM
Put simply...

There is plenty of time for a child to be independant...Babies were meant to be with us most of the time.

My babies used to sleep in my bed, when the younger one got big enough I stuck them in their own bed, together. I can already tell they'll sleep alone before long.

Ultimately it is what works for each family...take what you need and leave the rest...

soilsigh aingeal
July 14th, 2004, 03:09 AM
How about making her a Mommy doll? You could make a snuggly dolly and then fill it with your love. When you give it to her, explain that it is her mommy doll and when she wants to sleep with Mommy, just hug the doll close and all your love will be right there with her.
That's a really good idea!

Kadynas
July 14th, 2004, 09:33 AM
:lol: My parents were cruel when I was little... when they wanted to get romantic they'd lock their bedroom door in the middle of the afternoon and they'd tell me they were locked in and dad was trying to work on the lock! :rollingla

Tanya
July 15th, 2004, 08:24 AM
Well.... my hubby insisted when we brought the baby home and into her own room she went. I really WANTED to co sleep... but since i was breast feeding... almost every time she fell asleep i was with her... and it was nice, and sometimes i fell asleep beside her and her crib was big enough it didn't matter... but it was NICE to wake up at two am sore and tired and aching post-C section and go to my own bed where i dind't have to be a little bit awake and worry about rolling on her, or hear every peep she made. When she woke up at 5 a.m. i bundled her into bed with us for a nurse and another hour snooze.... it was lovely.... but the sleep quality for my hubby and i definately was diminished.
In the last month (baby is now 1 1/2 years) house guests took over her room and banished her to a nest in our bedroom....before this she and i slept the night 70% of the time and had done so since she was about 3 months... hearing every stir and peep means now i'm awake 4-6 times a night. i love having her near, i love curling up with her sleeping in my arms... but i also sleep best spread eagle on my belly.. and its seems (as i hear it ) all babies sleep best lying across mom and dad's bed.... ours does.... sigh.... and i haven't even mentioned sex.... where /when do full time cosleepers have sex? just wondering
note i'm not saying a damned thing about the good of the baby... because the baby is best served by a parent who loves them... no matter where the little guy sleeps... and i'm a selfish grumpy bitch.... who thinks a baby (as frustrating as they can be) is also best served by a well rested set of parents. I suspect some people and their babies sleep well together.... my husband an i can't even agree on how many blankets on our bed... and besides sleeping crossways... our little one likes 1/2 more blankets than my hubby and 1/2 less than me.... how can all three of us ever sleep in the same place at once? ACK!!!

Holly Ariadna
July 15th, 2004, 09:16 AM
The following is a rant about co-sleeping. If you co-sleep and you get offended easily, then I suggest you don't read this thread, because I'm not going to respond to any outraged responses.

Co-sleeping is the big thing lately, along with various other "attachment parenting" techniques. My problem with co-sleeping is it doesn't seem to teach a baby to be independent. It doesn't teach him to sleep through the night or by himself, and doesn't teach him to go to sleep by himself. I can hear all those who co-sleep jumping up now and saying "yes it does!!"

"Oh really?" I say. So explain to me why on one parenting forum and one parenting mailing list I'm constantly hearing about problems from those who co-sleep. Baby/toddler wakes up 6 times a night to nurse....baby/toddler needs mommy to lie down with him for naps, baby/toddler needs to be nursed down to sleep.

My son has slept in his own crib in his own room since he was 3 months old. He slept in a bassinet beside the bed before then. Currently he puts himself to sleep and sleeps 8 hours before waking for breakfast, then he sleeps for another 3 hours. He goes down easily and takes 1-2 hour naps, twice a day.

So really...is the baby in your bed to bennifit you or your baby? You say that the baby needs you to comfort him? Give him a soother, or a teddy bear or a blanky. Kids have to learn to self sooth eventually! You say it's easier to feed him if you can just let him latch on and go back to sleep....baby's past the age of 6 months shouldn't have to eat at night anyway, if they're getting enough during the day. He's just using you as a pacifyer -- buy him one!

The more I listen to mom's talk about co-sleeping, the more it seems that they do it so they can be as close to baby as possible at all times, not because of some magical benifit it has for the baby. And it's this touchy feely aspect of parenting that is to blame for increased number of messed up kids. IMO, of course.

Okay, I'm done now. I know that these arguments aren't very rational and can probably be beaten down rather quickly by people applying logic. But I'm not being logical. I'm only stating what has been on my mind for a rather long time. I decided to choose one aspect of attachment parenting rather than attacking the entire thing.

I slept with my parents until I was 7 years old!! :p I had the benefit of being the youngest kid, the only daughter, and the only child that still lived at home, and oh yeah, I didn't have my own room... :p *blushes* But I'm not THAT messed up now, don't worry. ;)

BethieRose
July 15th, 2004, 09:42 AM
eh, I've done both. My oldest was a crib sleepr. She slept WONDERFULLY until she was about 2 or 3. Now, she's almost six and often wakes in the night and won't go back to her own bed. She sleeps on the couch half the night now, because we don't have space in our bed.

My youngest is almost six months now and we cosleep. DH fully supports it. We do nurse frequently through the night, but I still find I sleep better at night. The period immediately after his birth found me so much better rested. I guess when this guy is six, I'll be able to do a better personal comparison of the two styles.

For now, I have to say, it's not just the PARENT who decides what's best. Sometimes the child has to have a say, because every child is different and has different nighttime needs. Sometimes I think what we in the western cultures consider "sleep problems" are really just normal things that babies are meant to do.

MarinaSulis
July 15th, 2004, 10:41 AM
where /when do full time cosleepers have sex?

I'm always surprised people even ask this question. Doesn't everyone live in multiple roomed homes these days? ;)

My DH and I are particularly fond of the living room.

:sunny:

bluglass
July 15th, 2004, 11:24 AM
Personally, my family never really followed the co-sleeping idea and I don't know another family who has. The only time that my sister or I slept in my parents bed was when we had a nightmare and even then I was known to get up and go back to my own bed.

I think Amethyst is right, children have to learn to be independant and learn to sooth themselves. It's just some mothering smothering.

I'm sorry first we're talking about babies then we're talking about children and the word independence is inserted in these sentences and so I'm confused.

Being an infant and the word independent are two things I would never think to connect. It's an infant. The whole point is that is is NOT independent. It grows into being independent over many years. It would never occure to me to ask my infant who just spent nine months in my body to come out and oh, be independent. Go ahead, you're not inside mommy now so you don't need to sleep next to me, let alone need me to help you to sleep. You can do these things all on your own now. I will deprive you of the warmth, instant food, most comfortable sleeping situation created and expect you to just, well, go to sleep now because I say so and I don't even know if it is what you are able to do at this moment but because I run the clock -- I say so so you just do it.

As well pointed out, some people even from the start of being born have an easier disposition, are less stressed and have more stable biorythems. They self sooth better and siimply require less maintenance and teaching to get the hang of when to fall asleep and how to fall asleep. Some people don't. It won't matter whether you co-sleep or not with such people. They will have problems and the learning of when and how to fall asleep will be just as messy. It has nothing to do with independence. After all they are asleep and hardly know if someone is in the room with them or not. Independence is when your child is comfortable to explore a strange situation on his own rather than cling to mommy. Independence is learning to feed yourself and dress your self. Independence means not relying upon someone. Sleep whether next to mom and/or dad or in a seperate bed is still a the act of a single person. The rocking, cuddling, song singing, etc. are more the equalivalent of preparing food to give to your child. You don't expect your infant or toddler or young child to be able to make their own bottles or get to your breast themselves or cook dinner. Independence is being able to get to the lower cabinet where your dry snacks are stored and help your self. But parents don't expect child to do the shopping and get the food home. And parents who put their child to bed in a crib still do all the prep work of singing, reading, music playing and cuddling that co-sleeping parents do. Come on, how many parents who have their kids sleep in a crib simply lay them down awake, turn the light of and walk out? How many such parents cuddle or rock their child until they are almost asleep or even asleep before carefully putting them in the crib?

I've done both. My kids had bad biorythems, they have sleep disturbances, night terrors, frequent wakings. Required rocking, singing, music, dark, no noise. My dd night nursed with great frequency and relish for 3 years much to the detriment of my health. So why didn't I give up?

Because. Just because. Because the night is dark and lonely and alone. Because I remember crying when I was a toddler for someone to come comfort me and my parents thought CIO was best and did not come in to me and I fell asleep with snot running down my face, soaked from sweat and tears. I never trusted anyone to come and help me again and it changed who I am and how I relate to people in a negative way that I have spent my life trying to overcome. Because my child started out with my heartbeat in his ears, constant warmth and was never hungry and I could not see depriving my child of the same simply because of a change in environment --- until they grew enough to choose for themselves. Because I was willing to make the commitment to this waiting and watching and teaching. Because I have more patience than I think.

And so yes, people/parents vent and whine about certain things and you are simply noticing this more than anything else. Personally I think the same about parents who bottle feed and complain about all the work and have all the hastle of the carrying and preparation. I simply could not understand why they would not breastfeed and stop having all the hastle. why do they put up with it? For a variety of reasons among which it is simply what feels right to them as parents. Ultimately, t is not life threatening or hurtful to child or parent so they do it.

Would I be wrong to say you are really complaining about the complaining and that it really has nothing to do with the topic of the complaint?

LacyRoze
July 15th, 2004, 11:41 AM
At the risk of being made fun of, criticized{sp}, etc..... I'm 39 and there are still times I need the warmth of my mother. When life has dealt me a terrible blow, when the world seems to be closing in on me, when I'm scared for what ever reason I want to be.. gasp.. in the arms of my mother!!!

We are all different and all have our fears and demons to overcome. An infant or toddler is no different. The world is a great big scary place and some need that sense of security from being with mom more than others. I cannot imagine saying no to a child when their insecurities get the best of them. Yes, they need to learn to be independent but they also need to know they can go to mom when things get to be too much for them. My daughters, ages 2 and 4, have their own beds and for the most part sleep in them but they know if they wake during the night and are scared, insecure, whatever, they can come to mommy and daddy and we won't dismiss those fears and turn them away.

As to the issue of where to have sex?? Well first of all remember... having sex is what brought that special little gift into your life in the first place. So you may be incovenienced for awhile, so what?? And yes, you may have to get creative. There are other places besides the bedroom to have that quality time!!


Now let me make clear I am not saying that anyone who doesn't co-sleep will not comfort their child if they wake during the night. I am just stating my feelings and mine alone. What I've written is what works for me and my family. As the saying goes,,, different strokes for different folks...

Amethyst Rose
July 15th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Come on, how many parents who have their kids sleep in a crib simply lay them down awake, turn the light of and walk out?


I do. I realized my son was ready to put himself to sleep when he started fighting if I tried cuddling/rocking him to sleep. I feed him and then let him lay in my arms for a few minutes watching tv, (so he knows it's bed time), and when he starts fighting, I put him in bed. Last night I put him in bed, wide a wake, turned off the light, closed the door and didn't here a peep from him until almost 7am.

At his age (9 months) I do think babies are quite capable of putting themselves to sleep, but they have to learn how to do it. It took 2 nights of him CIO for 15 minutes before he learned how to self sooth and fall asleep by himself. Self soothing is a very important skill to learn! I consider falling asleep on his own to be a milestone. And like I said, he was ready for it. He wouldn't fall asleep with my trying to put him to sleep....the first night we CIO it was only after trying to put him to sleep for an hour.



Would I be wrong to say you are really complaining about the complaining and that it really has nothing to do with the topic of the complaint?

I'm bothered by anyone who complains about something and doesn't take the necessary steps to fix the situation. This just happens to be the most popular complaint from parents.

soilsigh aingeal
July 15th, 2004, 01:17 PM
And parents who put their child to bed in a crib still do all the prep work of singing, reading, music playing and cuddling that co-sleeping parents do. Come on, how many parents who have their kids sleep in a crib simply lay them down awake, turn the light of and walk out? How many such parents cuddle or rock their child until they are almost asleep or even asleep before carefully putting them in the crib?
My daughter climbs into her own bed, we sing a song and she rolls over and I shut the door. I know that she's not asleep that very secong before the door closes. When she was 6 months old, she used to fall asleep on her own then she got sick at 8 months and I had to lay down with her in my bed until she fell asleep. When she was 10 months, she wasn't falling asleep with me there any longer and I couldn't exactly wait until 11pm rolled around and she finally conked out on the floor playing with me. So I did CIO with her and for 3 nights of crying that lasted 15-10-5 minutes it was worth it. If she wakes up during the night she is more than welcome to come and sleep with me. I still use a monitor and she yells "mommy come get me" and I do. I do the same for my 10 month old. I rocked and walked and sang him to sleep until a little more than a month ago and that was because he was fighting me, flailing around while I was trying to sooth him to sleep. and once again, I was waiting for a baby to conk out on the floor at 11pm. I did CIO (or is it Ferber?) with him and went in after 5-10-15 minutes and after 2-3 nights it worked. Now he goes to sleep on his own, does not cry or wimper.

I also get sick of people saying "if my child has a nightmare or needs comfort in the middle of the night they're going to get it" as if it doesn't mean that since I didn't/don't co-sleep my child will have to bang on my bedroom door all night after a bad dream or because they don't feel good or whatever the case may be because my kids will get any comfort they may need from me regardless of whether or not they sleep in my bed every night.

MarinaSulis
July 16th, 2004, 12:05 PM
When my daughter fights sleep, it's usually because she's overtired, overstimulated, or in pain. Sometimes we do have to put in more effort to get her to sleep, or adjust her bedtime.


I'm bothered by anyone who complains about something and doesn't take the necessary steps to fix the situation. This just happens to be the most popular complaint from parents.

Sometimes I do complain if she has a rough night, and I'm tired from it. I wouldn't change it for anything, though -- and I certainly don't consider cribs and CIO to be "necessary steps" or desirable steps. Most cosleeping parents wouldn't.

I guess you never complained during pregnancy, then. ;)

Amethyst Rose
July 16th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Sometimes I do complain if she has a rough night, and I'm tired from it. I wouldn't change it for anything, though -- and I certainly don't consider cribs and CIO to be "necessary steps" or desirable steps. Most cosleeping parents wouldn't.


And I didn't say they are the "necessary steps". There are probably other things that can be done, too. What I meant was that anyone who complains and doesn't attempt to fix the situation shouldn't be complaining....that's just annoying.



I guess you never complained during pregnancy, then. ;)

Sure, I complained about a lot of things...but I also did some research and attempted to find ways to make things better, like my back was hurting so I learned the proper way to stand (with one foot on a box) for long periods of time.
Personally I think that a person who complains and doesn't try to fix the situation is complaining for the sake of complaining.

Faeawyn
July 16th, 2004, 01:30 PM
:foh: I cannot believe that this is still being debated :rotfl: It has to be the longest topic of debate I've ever seen on MW.....:lol:
I guess, from this, we can discern that subjects to avoid discussing in polite conversation are religion, politics....and now parenting styles :lol:

fahawk
July 16th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Parenting is a huge job..so whatever works for a family shouldn't become an issue..there will always be pros and cons to any choice.
I found my kids did not have the typical fear of the dark..and potty trained much quicker through co-sleeping..
my down side was that they nursed 24/7 non-stop..but wonder if that was a co-sleeping issue or a "supplement' with bottle and get some sleep issue with me- which I didnt try..

anyway- I feel much more 'forgiving" of other parents choices as I get older.. we all try and thats all we can do :)

Shanti
July 16th, 2004, 01:36 PM
:foh: I cannot believe that this is still being debated :rotfl: It has to be the longest topic of debate I've ever seen on MW.....:lol:
I guess, from this, we can discern that subjects to avoid discussing in polite conversation are religion, politics....and now parenting styles :lol:
Thats why I came to peek. I was wondering what everyone was talking, debating about.
I personally dont care how my neighbor puts their kids to bed. I only care how I put my kids to bed. GEEEESSSSHHHHH!
:fpartyhat

Rockprincess
July 16th, 2004, 01:39 PM
Personally I think that a person who complains and doesn't try to fix the situation is complaining for the sake of complaining.
And I think this was the point of the entire post :clapping: And it applies to ANY situation, not just parenting.

Starpixie
July 16th, 2004, 06:01 PM
Thats why I came to peek. I was wondering what everyone was talking, debating about.
I personally dont care how my neighbor puts their kids to bed. I only care how I put my kids to bed. GEEEESSSSHHHHH!
:fpartyhat
I agree

MarinaSulis
July 16th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Sort of like you complaining about people complaining? ;)

I'm sorry, I'll stop. I dislike similar things -- like people complaining (a lot) about a desired pregnancy, or complaining about the baby never wanting to be put down, or complaining about not getting good sleep right after a baby is born. That does bug me. But complaining is a form of venting, of processing feelings, of gaining recognition. So, even though it's not pleasant to listen to, it doesn't necessarily mean that an idle complaint is something that needs to be fixed, it's just something that needs to be acknowledged.

Do you know what I mean? If it bugs you, don't read parenting boards, or filter it out. That'll fix your complaint of people complaining. ;)

Amethyst Rose
July 16th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Sort of like you complaining about people complaining? ;)



Touche :D

Starpixie
July 16th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Sort of like you complaining about people complaining? ;)

I'm sorry, I'll stop. I dislike similar things -- like people complaining (a lot) about a desired pregnancy, or complaining about the baby never wanting to be put down, or complaining about not getting good sleep right after a baby is born. That does bug me. But complaining is a form of venting, of processing feelings, of gaining recognition. So, even though it's not pleasant to listen to, it doesn't necessarily mean that an idle complaint is something that needs to be fixed, it's just something that needs to be acknowledged.

Do you know what I mean? If it bugs you, don't read parenting boards, or filter it out. That'll fix your complaint of people complaining. ;)
Whos complaining?

Azelia
July 19th, 2004, 11:27 AM
I was totally against Co sleeping until a slumlord and some mice gave us no other choice. I admit it was harder for me to switch to the crib than him when we moved. But I don't think you can blame co sleeping on a baby not sleeping through the night. there are just to many other things that go into the equation. But For the record Jared has slept in his crib since he was 4 mnths and at nine months of age he hasnt slept throught the night yet. He is prone to nightmares and his first tooth just came in. All of this can effect sleep patterns as well see what I mean? we really have no way of knowing if it helps hurts or whatever. But boy am I tired!!! :zzz:

bluglass
July 20th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Yes, and your experience is the point of why parents vent. Your child was not having an easy time and you tried a variety of things. Sometimes they work and sometimes it is messy. We all parent as we feel we need to and as best we can and when it is messy we let off steam.

And your second post brings up how life situations add to the dynamic in ways we can't imagine. We get caught off guard, perhaps there isn't a lot of support or information available to give us ideas about how to manage our lives and help our children.

FaerieGothMommy
July 20th, 2004, 12:10 PM
I just think you should mother your child how you want, not how anyone else thinks is "correct" if you don't want to co-sleep, then fine, if you do, then fine.... It's what you believe is best for your baby... or maybe just what you prefer. :)

treefae
July 21st, 2004, 01:13 AM
i do both because that's my kids preferences.i go by their needs unless i need a break,burnt out or sick.yep mom's gotta take care of herself too.my oldest had a hip problem so she slept with me because of casts and braces for over a year.she is high spirited and wound physically so she still is needy for closeness.she does have phases when she'll sleep in her own room.my younger one is completely the opposite.happy but really laid back,prefers to have her space sleeping and will be really mad if she gets disturbed.so the best thing for her is her crib.she gets really mad if i don't get her to bed right away when she's tired.when i nursed her she'd get irritated sleeping next to me when she was a few months old.she really likes solitary undisturbed sleep.she has set her own sleep habit since 4 months old same time every night,all night a full 11 hours usually.naps like clockwork.i've never had to force her to bed i just listen to her.i was hoping for a better sleeper from my first wearing me out.i think sometimes they can milk you a little but it's mostly we are all different with different needs.

Bec_W
July 21st, 2004, 01:46 AM
I wonder if it's not so much a co-sleeping problem as an indulgent parent problem or even a demanding child problem.

Haruka2077
July 21st, 2004, 07:49 AM
On the topic of co-sleeping... Has anyone here ever used a co-sleeper? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/baby/B0000A435E/qid=1090410655/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8976828-6300130
My husband and I are thinking of getting one for when our baby's born.

FaerieGothMommy
July 21st, 2004, 07:55 AM
On the topic of co-sleeping... Has anyone here ever used a co-sleeper? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/baby/B0000A435E/qid=1090410655/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8976828-6300130
My husband and I are thinking of getting one for when our baby's born.

I've never used one, don't know if i would use one... hmmmm

Shanti
July 21st, 2004, 08:10 AM
On the topic of co-sleeping... Has anyone here ever used a co-sleeper? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/baby/B0000A435E/qid=1090410655/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8976828-6300130
My husband and I are thinking of getting one for when our baby's born. Thats what we always have done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its great too but my SO made the beds, we didnt need to buy any. :)

So what do you call it when your wee ones share the same room but not the same bed? We all share the same room, kids are not babies, but we have seperate beds. Its nice because my 4 yr old can easily come to me when he wakes up at night and he doesnt have to walk through a dark house or cry untill I hear him.

(We have multiple rooms in the house so we can be alone for intimate times)

Haruka2077
July 21st, 2004, 11:57 AM
I've never used one, don't know if i would use one... hmmmm

Could you share any thoughts about it, FaerieGothMommy? I'm trying to think about all the pros and cons I can before we buy it.
I plan on breastfeeding, and the baby will have to be in the same room as us for a while due to lack of space and heating (she'll be born in November).

Temair
July 22nd, 2004, 09:59 AM
On the topic of co-sleeping... Has anyone here ever used a co-sleeper? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/baby/B0000A435E/qid=1090410655/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8976828-6300130
My husband and I are thinking of getting one for when our baby's born.
Sort of. Our bed sits on the floor because we have no frame. Rowan sleeps on a crib mattress (once she outgrew the bassinette) on the floor right next to the bed. Sometimes if I am too tired to stay awake to nurse her I will put her in bed next to me to nurse, or if it is too cold for me (my husband likes it to be freezing in the bedroom). Otherwise I just sit on the edge of the bed and nurse her, then lay her right back down and I don't have to get out of bed, but she also isn't hogging my bed, either.

Gwenhwyfar
July 22nd, 2004, 10:20 AM
The following is a rant about co-sleeping. If you co-sleep and you get offended easily, then I suggest you don't read this thread, because I'm not going to respond to any outraged responses.

Co-sleeping is the big thing lately, along with various other "attachment parenting" techniques. My problem with co-sleeping is it doesn't seem to teach a baby to be independent. It doesn't teach him to sleep through the night or by himself, and doesn't teach him to go to sleep by himself. I can hear all those who co-sleep jumping up now and saying "yes it does!!"

"Oh really?" I say. So explain to me why on one parenting forum and one parenting mailing list I'm constantly hearing about problems from those who co-sleep. Baby/toddler wakes up 6 times a night to nurse....baby/toddler needs mommy to lie down with him for naps, baby/toddler needs to be nursed down to sleep.

My son has slept in his own crib in his own room since he was 3 months old. He slept in a bassinet beside the bed before then. Currently he puts himself to sleep and sleeps 8 hours before waking for breakfast, then he sleeps for another 3 hours. He goes down easily and takes 1-2 hour naps, twice a day.

So really...is the baby in your bed to bennifit you or your baby? You say that the baby needs you to comfort him? Give him a soother, or a teddy bear or a blanky. Kids have to learn to self sooth eventually! You say it's easier to feed him if you can just let him latch on and go back to sleep....baby's past the age of 6 months shouldn't have to eat at night anyway, if they're getting enough during the day. He's just using you as a pacifyer -- buy him one!

The more I listen to mom's talk about co-sleeping, the more it seems that they do it so they can be as close to baby as possible at all times, not because of some magical benifit it has for the baby. And it's this touchy feely aspect of parenting that is to blame for increased number of messed up kids. IMO, of course.

Okay, I'm done now. I know that these arguments aren't very rational and can probably be beaten down rather quickly by people applying logic. But I'm not being logical. I'm only stating what has been on my mind for a rather long time. I decided to choose one aspect of attachment parenting rather than attacking the entire thing.
just curious as to what you ment by that?? I was always under the impretion the more hugs, kisses, cuddles, love, the better....I slept with my daughter till she turned 4 and shes far from messed up...theres nothing wrong with being attatched to your mommy and daddy...we arnt all robots here eh....just my opionion

MarinaSulis
July 31st, 2004, 07:30 PM
We purchased an Arm's Reach cosleeper before my daughter was born. It's probably just one of those things where it completely depends on the baby. Sometimes she would sleep in it, but more often, she slept right next to me, which was easier for breastfeeding. She also seemed to prefer being right next to me, and slept better that way.

Morag Elasaid Ni Dhomhnaill
July 31st, 2004, 09:41 PM
Thats what we always have done!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its great too but my SO made the beds, we didnt need to buy any. :)

So what do you call it when your wee ones share the same room but not the same bed? We all share the same room, kids are not babies, but we have seperate beds. Its nice because my 4 yr old can easily come to me when he wakes up at night and he doesnt have to walk through a dark house or cry untill I hear him.

(We have multiple rooms in the house so we can be alone for intimate times)

Shanti, our son sleeps in our room as well, though he is still in a crib, and will on occassion if he is either not feeling well or very fussy (teething) he will sleep right in between us. We tried putting him in another room. It just didn't work for us or for him. We tried the cry it out method. It never worked. He just kept on crying without end until we came and got him.

And personally I don't see the harm in parents letting out some steam about their lack of sleep. Sure we don't sleep as well when he's in the bed with us, but trust me we get a hell of a lot more sleep that way than we do if he wants to be with us and we don't lie down with him.

And like someone said above, what exactly is wrong with being "touchy, feely" when it comes to your kids. My parents were never the touchy, feely type and I can assure you that had I gotten more hugs and kisses and less pats on the head I would have a more personal relationship with them. And that is something we should all be lucky enough to have with our parents.

Ceres
February 5th, 2006, 10:03 PM
*RadikalWomyns daughter* I shared a bed with my parents in the early years of my life, and i am perfectly independent, most likely even more so then the majority of the fairly young population and find it most insulting to be claimed overly dependent or dependent at all for that matter.

Ceres
February 5th, 2006, 10:06 PM
I guess my 12 yr old bumped this thread :lol:

eldora_avalon
February 5th, 2006, 10:22 PM
That's really funny :yayah:

My son slept in our bed off and on, he's 5 and still likes to take a nap with me. He is very independent. Except right now because he is sick, so I don't have time to read the rest of this thread, sorry. Weekends were great especailly when he was an infant. He would sleep through the night in his crib, but at 5 or 7 or whenever he woke up, I would get up, get him, put him in bed with us and he would nurse and we would all go back to sleep. Then the cats would jump up on the bed and it would be like Gramma's Feather Bed by John Denver, hehehe, The time he spent snuggling has never harmed him. Except that he doesn't get why all people don't like hugs. It's hard for me to explain because I don't get it either. Oh well. :spaceman:

wintermagick
February 5th, 2006, 10:42 PM
My son has slept in his own crib in his own room since he was 3 months old. He slept in a bassinet beside the bed before then. Currently he puts himself to sleep and sleeps 8 hours before waking for breakfast, then he sleeps for another 3 hours. He goes down easily and takes 1-2 hour naps, twice a day.

This sounds EXACTLY like our daughter.

I consider myself an AP mommy, heart and soul. And I *tried* co-sleeping, but my baby simply WAS NOT INTERESTED. As an infant she woke at my every little movement in the bed, as an older baby and early toddler she was literally trying to climb the walls rather than go to sleep... so I gave up on the co-sleeping trend fairly early on. I mean, I tried every once in a while, but she wasn't going for it... and honestly I was sleeping way too lightly to be healthy... I was always worried I'd roll over on her or something.

My baby has always been independent (which is good) :uhhuhuh: but she has also always been a very unaffectionate baby, which I'm sort of bummed about. :sadeyes:

Ceres
February 5th, 2006, 10:49 PM
My baby has always been independent (which is good) :uhhuhuh: but she has also always been a very unaffectionate baby, which I'm sort of bummed about. :sadeyes:
But thats exactly what makes you an attachment parent. You are looking at your baby for cues rather than accepting the norm or even pediatric advice as best for your baby. :) As much as you would like your baby to be more affectionate, you respect her personality.

I think that explains the complaints of AP parent who sometimes vent about the family bed. They know their babies need them and they are responding to that need. Doesnt mean its always a bed of roses. As I recall, co sleeping was as often a bed of leaking milk, hanging off the edge of the bed and pointed lil toes poked into your jelly belly as it was roses :lol:

RubyRose
February 6th, 2006, 01:44 AM
Xander's just over a month old, and yes I do bring him into bed with me sometimes, but at the same time, come 10pm at night he's placed in his bassinet, sometimes while still awake, and settles himself to sleep, not always for 6 hours but most of the time.

Amber Wynd
February 6th, 2006, 02:01 AM
This sounds EXACTLY like our daughter.

I consider myself an AP mommy, heart and soul. And I *tried* co-sleeping, but my baby simply WAS NOT INTERESTED. As an infant she woke at my every little movement in the bed, as an older baby and early toddler she was literally trying to climb the walls rather than go to sleep... so I gave up on the co-sleeping trend fairly early on. I mean, I tried every once in a while, but she wasn't going for it... and honestly I was sleeping way too lightly to be healthy... I was always worried I'd roll over on her or something.

My baby has always been independent (which is good) :uhhuhuh: but she has also always been a very unaffectionate baby, which I'm sort of bummed about. :sadeyes:
And this sounds like my kid. I tried bringing her to bed with us and she wasn't happy about it - even when she was really tiny. There was a bed in her room next to her crib and she like me to sleep there - but she didn't want to be in the same bed. I tried again when she was a bit older, but she was too rough. She either kicked all night long or she'd wake up and pull my nose and laugh. I'd be trying to sleep and this little voice would say "Hi mom. Play." and then she'd poke my eye or something. It was kind of sad because I think it's the normal human condition for kids to sleep with their parents, but there was no point in forcing it because no one was getting any sleep.

P.S, My baby wasn't all that affectionate when she was little, but she's become quite affectionate as she gets older. I bet yours will, too.

Gwenhwyfar
February 6th, 2006, 11:17 AM
I co slept with my daughter...shes 7 now and will still get into bed with us sometimes...ya now what? I like it that way and would do it again if given the chance.

MysticWitch
February 6th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Pros and cons are on both sides. Its just personal preferrance. What works for one may not work for another!

Nothing to get uptight about to me. It doesnt matter what other moms do or dont do. I do what works for my family.


I agree

Astara Seague
February 6th, 2006, 01:12 PM
I think it is a personal preferance and it works for some, the ones I have problems is are the ones whose kids are teenagers and they still sleep with Mommy I think there should be an age limit especilly if they are of the opposite sex_inabox_

wintermagick
February 6th, 2006, 01:23 PM
But thats exactly what makes you an attachment parent. You are looking at your baby for cues rather than accepting the norm or even pediatric advice as best for your baby. As much as you would like your baby to be more affectionate, you respect her personality.

:loveydove

Someone here mentioned also that their child was way too active even while asleep in the family bed. The few times we could get her to sleep there she would roll and thrash right to the end of the bed (and poke her feet into my belly too).

But anyway like someone else said it really differs with every family.

Kalika
February 6th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Honestly, I think it depends on the child.

I co-slept with my son until December of this year. It didn't start out as a choice, really... or a conscious decision, but he's a tummy sleeper, and when he was little, I really didn't like the thought of him sleeping on his tummy by himself, especially since he likes to bury his nose.

We transitioned him to his crib the weekend after Christmas. From the beginning, he slept on his own fine, sleeps through the night, and has no problems being alone.

However, I do have to say that we gave him ample other opportunities to be "independent". We gave him "alone" time, where he plays by himself, with his toys (supervised of course!), and we encouraged him to do solitary activities, so that he isn't wholly dependent upon us for everything, and so he learns that he can do things on his own.

Do I think its harmful to co-sleep? No. There are a lot of benefits, not least of which is peace of mind that your baby is safe, as he is right there next to you. However, I do think that by a year of age, its a good idea to get them to sleep in their own room, in their own bed, as after that point, it is likely to be more difficult to change their habits.