Sickening

[Jaroson]

Hey

I'm absolutely sickened to share the same faith as this filth.

http://channels.aolsvc.co.uk/news/article.adp?id=20040712052809990001

[Ahautenites]

I can't see anything but an AOL logon page, sorry.

[Terestai]

Yeah... that's an AOL special features page, and only AOL members can see it.

[Jaroson]

Sorry if the link doesn't work for you. This is the full story as reported by AOL

Ian Huntley has stunned prison bosses by reportedly asking to be trained as a pagan priest and learn witchcraft.

Taxpayers will foot the bill for the notorious killer to be instructed in the secrets of the pagan religion Wicca inside Wakefield top-security prison.

But insiders at the prison - where serial killer Harold Shipman hanged himself in January - believe it is a desperate attempt by Huntley to be moved after a string of death threats from fellow inmates.

This latest twist in the bizarre life of the child murderer comes after he began attending church services every Sunday and his attempts to become a choirboy.

As part of his introduction to the pagan "religion", Huntley will follow a Wiccan handbook that will teach him the "secrets of witchcraft" and "powerful" magic skills.

And it adds: "You will join a Circle of the Wise - Witchcraft - Coven. Wicca is a Mystery tradition of Priestesses and Priests. You will be working towards Initiation in this tradition."

The course is laid on by the Prison Service and is part of its policy to cater for any individual's religious needs.

But an insider told The Daily Mirror: "It does beggar belief. But Huntley can study to become a witch under the present guideline."

Terrified Huntley, 30, is living in daily fear of retribution from other inmates out for revenge for the murders of 10-year-old schoolgirls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in August 2002.

A spokesman said: "The Prison Service respects rights of all prisoners to follow individual religions."

[Earthy]

Yep.I saw that on another site.
Made me mad too.

[~ Monk ~]

Here's a link everyone should be able to access:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14417171&method=full&siteid=89488&headline=evil-huntley-learns-witchcraft-in-jail-name_page.html

[Faeawyn]

Well...at least they recognize it at a religion.....
Its just another person manipulating the system.....I just keep telling myself...KARMA...KARMA....KARMA...What goes around comes around my friend.

[WinterTree]

:blech: :ahhhhhhh: :noway:

[Terestai]

That's absolutely disgusting!! I remember hearing about those murders back when they happened. I was working a graphic design job here in Denver and listened to the BBC online all day. And that's what this creep is trying to pull? I mean, I don't think any of us are qualified to pass judgement on anyone's expression of faith (that goes for all humanity), but this reeks of something entirely different.

[mara]

Yep.I saw that on another site.
Made me mad too.
I was just wondering what makes you mad about it?

[Lala]

well said, Faeawyn!

[Jaroson]

And of course now the news is that this 'secret society' and 'powerful magic' is linked with Huntley. As if Wicca and paganism in general doesn't have enough of a bad rep without this murdering childkiller trying to join the ranks instead of taking what he deserves in the form of a good kicking. I agree that everyone is entitled to have faith, but he's already crossed the line of rights in his life when he took the lives of two innocents.

[Strega Del Vento]

No comment. Blah. :ggrief:

[Phoenix Blue]

During my stay here at Maxwell-Gunter, I've had the opportunity to work with Federal prisoners. Granted, these were folks who posed almost no security risk to begin with--more your Martha Stewart than your Hannibal Lecter, if you know what I mean.

In any event, however, prisoners--no matter their crime--are still human. Huntley will stay behind bars for the rest of his life. No religion he studies or follows will ever change that. . . so if this is a ploy of some sort, it won't matter any more than anyone else in prison who claims to "find God." The simple fact of the matter is, there's not much else to do when one is in prison. . . you have a lot of time to look within and reflect.

And if he's being genuine, so much the better! Isn't positive press what we need? I hardly see anything negative about someone who's in jail turning to a religion in an attempt to improve himself. If he'd taken up Wicca and then murdered a child, that would be something else altogether. . .

As Wanderer said a couple days ago in a different thread: show some compassion. We're all in this world together, and not a single one of us is perfect. Someone mentioned Karma (though, again, it was the flawed Western "you'll get what's coming to you" perception rather than in the true Eastern concept). This man's karma is to spend the rest of his life atoning for murdering a child. Who are we not to welcome him into a new faith, if that is indeed his intent?

[mara]

If I was as articulate as Phoenix Blue I would have said the same thing.

[Jaroson]

This man turned to Christianity and wanted to be a choirboy in prison as it would have removed him from the clutches of other inmates hot for his blood. When this didn't work, he has now put in for Wicca as it will move him from the prison he is in as there is no facility there for it, thereby removing him from harm in that prison.

This man is far more intelligent than he would have everyone believe and now he has chosen Wicca as his ticket away from that prison the media is now linking him with the Wiccan faith and that has negative connotations.

I understand that everyone can follow which faith they choose and I truly believe that people can change but it is my opinion that this person is quite simply playing a broomstick out of jail card.

There is another theory which I have and I do not like it. During the Soham investigation, Huntley could not get enough of the tv coverage of himself. He loved the media attention and of course, Wicca attracts that attention without the likes of Huntley but it would guarantee him more coverage and he is well aware of this. I think he is addicted to media coverage of himself in some sort of psychological way. What are your thoughts on this?

My other concern is that if he does train to the point where he ministers to people, he will again be allowed into contact with vulnerable people, and that is something which repulses me completely. This is not the last we have heard of Huntley as he will continue to seek media coverage however he can using whatever methods and means are available. Time will tell.

[Earthy]

I really hope that you are wrong..but i fear that you are not.

[~ Monk ~]

I don't think I'd worry about it. :) Every religion/path has its nutjobs. Anyone who judges an entire religion/path path by the actions of the few bad apples is the one with a problem.

[Phoenix Blue]

I understand that everyone can follow which faith they choose and I truly believe that people can change but it is my opinion that this person is quite simply playing a broomstick out of jail card.
Except, of course, that he won't be getting out of jail no matter what religion he follows. If anything, it's a shame that he has to go to such lengths to have a measure of perosonal safety, which, last I checked, was a primary responsibility of the prison guards. If it's a ploy on his part, the negative press should direct itself toward the prison personnel for not doing their jobs.

If his actions are part of a ploy for attention, what better way to defuse it than to regard it as no big deal? If a child throws a temper tantrum, the way to make him stop is not to shout at him--because he threw the tantrum to gain attention, and shouting only gives him what he wants. The way to make him stop is to inform him that his antics will not gain him the attention he desires and then (to the best of one's ability and without jeopardizing anyone's safety) ignore the tantrum behavior. In any event, Wiccans can use the press' attention to educate the public on what it means to be Wiccan.

But I suppose all of this is secondary to my main point, which is this: the man did something horribly and completely immoral, yes, but no amount of righteous anger or disgust on our part will undo it. Whereas a little compassion from Wiccans might actually prove beneficial.

[Jaroson]

But I suppose all of this is secondary to my main point, which is this: the man did something horribly and completely immoral, yes, but no amount of righteous anger or disgust on our part will undo it. Whereas a little compassion from Wiccans might actually prove beneficial.

I agree. No amount of righteous anger or disgust on our part will undo it. It doesn't stop us from feeling it. I personally find it impossible to show or have compassion for anyone who shows no remorse nor compassion for those whom they murdered. I understand that this is an emotive issue and therefore there will be two camps of thought at all times with differing ideas and I guess we have to agree to disagree with issues such as compassion for these people.

[blugirrl1]

No comment. Blah. :ggrief:
about word for word what i was thinking, lol.

[Aelfoak]

[QUOTE=Phoenix_Blue]show some compassion. We're all in this world together, and not a single one of us is perfect.QUOTE]

Yeah right!! You go and tell that to the parents of those poor girls. Sorry but he's having no compassion from me, and anyone who harms life in general. Did you know the mongrel drowned them in his house, stripped them naked, burned them and left them in a ditch for 2 weeks till they were found in a dtich by a passer by, i'm sorry but i don't think this man will ever know about respecting other human beings and life in general, which i might say is the key foundation of all Pagan beliefs!

[13thChylde]

I don't think murderers, esp those who kill children, should be given a chance to find religion, whatever kind it may be.

[Black RiverWolf]

kay im gonna throw up!!! but at least they do reconize it as religion. alos look at it this way could be doing it as a way to try to save his own skin in prison but he will get his in the end

[Phoenix Blue]

i'm sorry but i don't think this man will ever know about respecting other human beings and life in general, which i might say is the key foundation of all Pagan beliefs!
Yes, well, show me a group of people who can even agree on what "all Pagan beliefs" actually are, and then show me a single person who perfectly represents those beliefs.

Even men who commit atrocities can change. . . if they want to. And whether this man wants to is not something we can judge based on what little information we have.

[Phoenix Blue]

I don't think murderers, esp those who kill children, should be given a chance to find religion, whatever kind it may be.
Some people would say the same thing about people who murder food animals. That doesn't mean they're right.

[Phoenix Blue]

he will get his in the end
Personally, I'd be more concerned about what's waiting for me. **Shrugs**

[Fairywolf]

[QUOTE=Phoenix_Blue]show some compassion. We're all in this world together, and not a single one of us is perfect.QUOTE]

Yeah right!! You go and tell that to the parents of those poor girls. Sorry but he's having no compassion from me, and anyone who harms life in general. Did you know the mongrel drowned them in his house, stripped them naked, burned them and left them in a ditch for 2 weeks till they were found in a dtich by a passer by, i'm sorry but i don't think this man will ever know about respecting other human beings and life in general, which i might say is the key foundation of all Pagan beliefs!
Maybe this is the religion he needs to find. Maybe it WILL teach him the respect for humans and other life.

Just so you know that I am completely aginst anyone who harms another, especially children. I think that there is no place for them. They are there own sickness. But I am not here to judge these people. Who are we to say weither or not they can learn a different religion? AND learn from it. How do you know that this isn't the thing that will help them out the most?

[LadyTrinity]

I hope that dude never gets out! Next thing u know he is sacreficing people and animals and put behind bars again! :elf:

[Aelfoak]

Even men who commit atrocities can change. . . if they want to. And whether this man wants to is not something we can judge based on what little information we have.
Ok tell me a mass murderer, peodophile, dictator etc who has changed, because i can't think of any! The information on this man is widespread out there, we had news reports about this case day in day out for weeks here in the UK. Leopards don't change their spots and that goes for this man and many others like him.

[AterCorax]

I pretty much agree with everything Phoenix Blue is saying.

-Ater

[Xentor]

Ok tell me a mass murderer, peodophile, dictator etc who has changed, because i can't think of any!

All geese are white! I never saw a black goose in my life!

[NivekDrgnMage]

I find myself in agreement with Phoenix Blue. How many times have I heard in these threads Freedom of religion means all religions and should inclued all people. If this is some way for him to save his skin after a time it will wear off and he will find another way. Plus with all the people in jail that have found God and Jesus..and some with neg views of Pagans(even though we know those view to be wrong), I think he just made himself a more interesting target.

[IvyCeltress]

One odd thing. They don't mention that he does have the option to practice as a solitary which would not require him to move or anything to follow the dictates of Wicca.

[DebLipp]

During my stay here at Maxwell-Gunter, I've had the opportunity to work with Federal prisoners. Granted, these were folks who posed almost no security risk to begin with--more your Martha Stewart than your Hannibal Lecter, if you know what I mean.

In any event, however, prisoners--no matter their crime--are still human. Huntley will stay behind bars for the rest of his life. No religion he studies or follows will ever change that. . . so if this is a ploy of some sort, it won't matter any more than anyone else in prison who claims to "find God." The simple fact of the matter is, there's not much else to do when one is in prison. . . you have a lot of time to look within and reflect.

And if he's being genuine, so much the better! Isn't positive press what we need? I hardly see anything negative about someone who's in jail turning to a religion in an attempt to improve himself. If he'd taken up Wicca and then murdered a child, that would be something else altogether. . .

As Wanderer said a couple days ago in a different thread: show some compassion. We're all in this world together, and not a single one of us is perfect. Someone mentioned Karma (though, again, it was the flawed Western "you'll get what's coming to you" perception rather than in the true Eastern concept). This man's karma is to spend the rest of his life atoning for murdering a child. Who are we not to welcome him into a new faith, if that is indeed his intent?

Hear, hear! I was hoping someone would say this.

One of the things that Pagan leaders have heard from other religious leaders is that we are hard to take seriously because of our lack of community outreach and charitable works. There are no Druid hospitals, for example. But, in increasing numbers, there are Pagan foodbanks, Pagan coats-for-kids drives, and Pagan prison ministries. I know a woman who, for a very long time, had a Pagan death row ministry. It's an unusual calling to be sure, but she was making a difference in the lives of hopeless people.

We, as Pagans, don't spend a lot of time discussing the "problem of evil" or the fate of evil people, or, you should pardon the expression, redemption. Is there such a thing as redemption, in this life or the next, for those who commit heinous crimes? If there is, then making a spiritual path available to them is A Good Thing.™ Why leave it to other religions to offer comfort?

[Kaija]

"Ok tell me a mass murderer, peodophile, dictator etc who has changed, because i can't think of any! The information on this man is widespread out there, we had news reports about this case day in day out for weeks here in the UK. Leopards don't change their spots and that goes for this man and many others like him."

I do happen to know of at least one.. I grew up with a guy, who when he turned .. hmm I think he was 19 (I moved long before) killed a kid. It is a very bad thing, and he is the first to admit it.. This guy NEEDED help.. he had previously (on many occaisions) TOLD his commanding officer (he was in the military at the time) that he would end up doing it.. they did not even attempt getting him help.. they kicked him out eventually. This in no way excuses what he did, but since he was put in prison he has gotten help, he sees a shrink, he has studied religions trying to find one that fits.. and he found it. He is now a Pagan.. (Wiccan I believe, but, it might be more ecclectic)

He is still human, and he is still him. I found an address to write to him while searching for something completely different (at the time a local girl was missing.. ), then while searching once again (when the girls body was found) came up with the address again so, I felt I was supposed to write to him. I am him. Had I not moved from that state he would most likely be fine.. we have so much in common, and always did.. He was alone out there, he was understood by no one.. I've felt that feeling before, that feeling that you've got to do something really "out there" to get noticed.. I've never done it, because I took it out in my writing. I've killed many a character on paper.. in man y creative ways.. than it's gone. He's learning it late, and there is no chance he can ever have a life again. Why try to keep him from finding a religion, or a belief that feels right?


On the other note, how many of you believe in reincarnation, or karmic pennance? Can you say without ANY doubt, that what happened in this life wasn't left over from another? I know I can't. Some things are going to happen, and while I would never say to let him out, trying to keep him from a belief is cruel.. and mean. He lives with what he did, he's not trying to forget, or block it out.. If you've never been in his shoes, (or the other guy's) how do you know what kind of person it is? This particular murderer is NOT the only one that I knew before they did it.. Just the only one I've had contact with after the fact.. but I know, that after the other two killed, the news portrayed them as inhuman monsters.. when in fact.. they were human. Seperating Us from Them makes life worse for all of us.. Any one of us can snap at any time.. These were nice, shy, quiet guys who for one reason or other snapped. What people on the outside see is completely different, they are not all Charles Manson .. I doubt even Manson actually was the image that people have of him. Humans are capable of murder, and if you really look at nature, it happens all the time with animals.. It does change them, but they are not monsters. You wouldn't see.. .oh let's take a tiger for example, shunned by the others for killing another tiger.. they still see it as a tiger.. (actually, they are more likely to respect it.. but I don't think humans should go that far) Let a prisoner do what they need, it is not you they have to answer to.. While on this though, I do agree with not allowing athame's and such.. That is just a bit too much considering no other religion would be allowed the same)


*sigh*.. now I'm stepping off of my soap box.. I wasn't planning on this today... but this is a topic that hurts me in many ways.. and while I understand the initial shock, there is more than two sides to this..