Celtic v's Christian v's Witches Wheel of the Year

[RubyRose]

Okay, now I was flipping thru Isolde by Rosalind Miles and came across the following at the back of the book.

Celtic Wheel of the Year

December 21 : Midwinter Solstice
February 1 : Imbolc
March 21 : Spring Equinox
April 1 : Llud's Day
May 1 : Beltain
June 21 : Midsummer Solstice
August 1 : Lughnasad
September 21 : Autumn Equinox
November 1 : Samhain

Christian Wheel of the Year

December 25 : Christmas
February 1 : Candlemas
March 24 : Lady Day
April 1 : All Fools Day
May 1 : May Day
June 24 : St John's Day
August 1 : Lammastide
September 21 : Michaelmas
October 31/November 1 : Hallowe'en/The Feast of All Saints
November 5 : Bonfire Night

And then ofcourse there's the traditional Witches Wheel of the Year

December 21 : Yule
February 1 : Imbolc
March 21 : Spring Equinox
May 1 : Beltain
June 21 : Midsummer
August 1 : Lughnassadh
September 21 : Autumn Equinox
October 31 : Samhain

Okay, so I can see the similarities and such and I've often seen the Celtic Wheel of the Year mentioned around the place (with the exception of Llud's Day) but I've never seen the Christian Holidays represented in such a way.

Anyway, I found this all interesting and thought I'd share it all.

Thoughts, opinions ... etc
RubyRose

[mucgwyrt]

:uhhuhuh:
According to the book I'm reading (very reliable) the christians took the pagans holidays and "christianised them" (i.e. stuck a saints name on them) to make the transition from pagan to christian easier and more natural.
Apparently it was a rather easy transition - the more difficult stuff to stamp out was the belief in things like Elves etc, than the actual established festivals themselves.

Of course, then there's May-Day which never really got converted. I guess the people just enjoyed that one too much :D

PS - Bonfire Night isn't christian or pagan - it's a british-only festival to celebrate the downfall of a terrorist (Guy Fawks) only a few hundred years ago, who tried to blow up the houses of parliament.

[Morr]

LMAO

im about to complete (FINALLY) my lesson 4 for Christo Paganism class... and this is EXACTLY the kind of "chart" I'm working on!! I noticed this a long time ago... There are some interesting parallels within the Jewish calander as well, to be honest... But I lost my "biblical jewish feasts calander" somewhere in the mess that is my notes from school...

June 22nd, is also Mary Magdalene's Feast Day - Which i think is WAY more appropriate then St. John's Feast Day because she can be viewed as a Goddess in her prime - that is represented by Summer & light.

[mucgwyrt]

June 22nd, is also Mary Magdalene's Feast Day - Which i think is WAY more appropriate then St. John's Feast Day because she can be viewed as a Goddess in her prime - that is represented by Summer & light.

Maybe, but its always known as St. Johns Feast - that's what the anglo-saxon monks consciously replaced midsummer with, anyway.

[asamananara]

Many christian feast days supplanted the older pagan holidays,
sometimes being assigned a certain date to coincide with the
traditional celebration (such as christmas), sometimes being
created specifically to sanctify the earlier (and persistant)
festivals (such as all-saints day). There's no mystery about
it; most people, including the uneducated rural pagans of early
christianized europe- are reluctant to give up their time-honored
traditions, and will sooner accept new names and faces than
a new calendar. It's a crafty public-relations move on the
part of the christians, but one which still hasn't made the
folk forget their heritage. (easter bunnies and christmas trees
are more natural holiday icons in the hearts and minds of all
children than the christ figures they often accompany)

[RubyRose]

:uhhuhuh:

PS - Bonfire Night isn't christian or pagan - it's a british-only festival to celebrate the downfall of a terrorist (Guy Fawks) only a few hundred years ago, who tried to blow up the houses of parliament.

Ah, okay yeah I've heard of Guy Fawks Night ... apparently it has now been scraped.

im about to complete (FINALLY) my lesson 4 for Christo Paganism class... and this is EXACTLY the kind of "chart" I'm working on!! I noticed this a long time ago... There are some interesting parallels within the Jewish calander as well, to be honest... But I lost my "biblical jewish feasts calander" somewhere in the mess that is my notes from school...

June 22nd, is also Mary Magdalene's Feast Day - Which i think is WAY more appropriate then St. John's Feast Day because she can be viewed as a Goddess in her prime - that is represented by Summer & light.

Ooh! I just love it when I'm helpfull. I was helpful wasn't I :lol:

[mucgwyrt]

scraped?

[RubyRose]

Many christian feast days supplanted the older pagan holidays,
sometimes being assigned a certain date to coincide with the
traditional celebration (such as christmas), sometimes being
created specifically to sanctify the earlier (and persistant)
festivals (such as all-saints day). There's no mystery about
it; most people, including the uneducated rural pagans of early
christianized europe- are reluctant to give up their time-honored
traditions, and will sooner accept new names and faces than
a new calendar. It's a crafty public-relations move on the
part of the christians, but one which still hasn't made the
folk forget their heritage. (easter bunnies and christmas trees
are more natural holiday icons in the hearts and minds of all
children than the christ figures they often accompany)

I find it (the more research I do) interesting that the rabbit and the egg symbols of the Goddess Eostre made it into Christian holiday activities. Such Pagan symbology finding it way into Christianity. It's lovely, considering the Christians views on Paganism.

[mucgwyrt]

Hmm, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the "pagan" symbols of the rabbit and the egg have any connection with Eostre/Ostara.

edit: The only time Eostre is ever mentioned in old literature is in Bede's De Temporum Rationae:
"the name of this month comes from a former goddess of theirs who was called Eostre and for whom feast days were celebrated during it". He goes on to comment, "now they (the Anglo-Saxons) designate that Paschal (Easter) season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance".

No eggs or bunnies.

[RubyRose]

scraped?

Yeah ... or at least it has been in my neck of the woods in Western Australia. We no longer celebrate Guy Fawks ... I believe it had something to do with Fire Hazards ... why do you still have it over there in England :huh:

[mucgwyrt]

:lol:
Yes we do, to a lesser extent than when I was a kid though, as most fields around here have been sold to private investors who dont like having stuff burnt on them :rolleyes:
There are still big celebrations which you can pay a few quid to get into, but none of the small community celebrations I remember as a kid.

[RubyRose]

Hmm, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the "pagan" symbols of the rabbit and the egg have any connection with Eostre/Ostara.

But I always thought that the hare represented virility and fertility, and the egg represents the new life and the cosmic egg of all creation ... and thus was linked to Eostre due to her symbols being the hare and the egg...
Unless my research fails me?
Enlighten me, if you dare... :lol:

[mucgwyrt]

But I always thought that the hare represented virility and fertility, and the egg represents the new life and the cosmic egg of all creation ... and thus was linked to Eostre due to her symbols being the hare and the egg...
Unless my research fails me?
Enlighten me, if you dare... :lol:

The only time Eostre is ever mentioned in old literature is in Bede's De Temporum Rationae:
"the name of this month comes from a former goddess of theirs who was called Eostre and for whom feast days were celebrated during it". He goes on to comment, "now they (the Anglo-Saxons) designate that Paschal (Easter) season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance".

No eggs or bunnies.

[RubyRose]

:lol:
Yes we do, to a lesser extent than when I was a kid though, as most fields around here have been sold to private investors who dont like having stuff burnt on them :rolleyes:
There are still big celebrations which you can pay a few quid to get into, but none of the small community celebrations I remember as a kid.

Ah! Okay, we used to celebrate it ... well the smaller country towns did anyway (back in my mothers childhood - so we're talking the 50's and 60's ...)

[asamananara]

Hmm, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the "pagan" symbols of the rabbit and the egg have any connection with Eostre/Ostara.
Nor should there be. They are potent fertility symbols on account
of their function and habits. There's no reason to relegate
them to the shadow-world of abstract contrivances.

[mucgwyrt]

:uhhuhuh: I agree. They are very appropriate symbols for that time of year, but they have no known connection to the Goddess Eostre herself.

[RubyRose]

The only time Eostre is ever mentioned in old literature is in Bede's De Temporum Rationae:
"the name of this month comes from a former goddess of theirs who was called Eostre and for whom feast days were celebrated during it". He goes on to comment, "now they (the Anglo-Saxons) designate that Paschal (Easter) season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance".

No eggs or bunnies. Those associations are neopagan.

Interesting. Maybe that particular website I attained my information was misconstrued (spelling :huh: )
Let me do a quick google search...


In ancient Anglo-Saxon myth, Ostara is the personification of the rising sun. In that capacity she is associated with the spring and is considered to be a fertility goddess. She is the friend of all children and to amuse then she changed her pet bird into a rabbit. This rabbit brought forth brightly colored eggs, which the goddess gave to the children as gifts. From her name and rites the festival of Easter is derived. Ostara is identical to the Greek Eos and the Roman Aurora.

from: pantheon.org

[asamananara]

They are very appropriate symbols for that time of year, but they have no known connection to the Goddess Eostre herself.
Names and faces, names and faces. :)

[RubyRose]

Nor should there be. They are potent fertility symbols on account
of their function and habits. There's no reason to relegate
them to the shadow-world of abstract contrivances.

:uhhuhuh: I agree. They are very appropriate symbols for that time of year, but they have no known connection to the Goddess Eostre herself.

Okay, 2 against 1, I know when I'm out voted ... strange, I guess this is really a case of beware of the internet and not everything you read is true huh?

[mucgwyrt]

In ancient Anglo-Saxon myth, Ostara is the personification of the rising sun. In that capacity she is associated with the spring and is considered to be a fertility goddess. She is the friend of all children and to amuse then she changed her pet bird into a rabbit. This rabbit brought forth brightly colored eggs, which the goddess gave to the children as gifts. From her name and rites the festival of Easter is derived. Ostara is identical to the Greek Eos and the Roman Aurora.


1) She's not known as Ostara, but as Eostre. (Ostara is her Continental name - not anglo-saxon)
2) Yes, she's associated with spring and I would assume fertility by extension, as April is named after her.
3) There are no myths about Eostre. Nada. Not a one.

[RubyRose]

1) She's not known as Ostara, but as Eostre.
2) Yes, she's associated with spring, as April is named after her.
3) There are no myths about Eostre. Nada.

Now, I am confused. So if the Goddess in question is not Ostara but Eostre, and yet there are no myths or tales about her, then who is she?

[mucgwyrt]

Exactly. No one knows anything about Eostre (or Ostara - her continental name).
It's safe to assume she is a fertility goddes, but that's all it is - an assumption.

[RubyRose]

Exactly. No one knows anything about Eostre (or Ostara - her continental name).
It's safe to assume she is a fertility goddes, but that's all it is - an assumption.

Okay, so let me just straighten this out in my head.
Are the egg and the hare symbols of the Goddess Ostara? And does she have anything to do with Easter celebrations we know today?

[mucgwyrt]

No, the symbols are (as far as we know) nothing to do with Ostara/Eoster.

Ostara and Eoster are the same Goddess in the way that Minerva and Athena are the same - Ostara is continental Germanic, and Eoster is Anglo-Saxon. It just narks me when people say that Ostara is Anglo-Saxon (silly pantheon.org! :lol: )

Yes, she is the Goddess that April is named after, which Bede (an 8th Century monk) tells us was celebrated in April with a few (didn't say how many) days of feasting. The Christians then came along with "new rites" (i.e. new celebrations) and just borrowed the old name Eoster to make the transition easier. We have no more info than that.

Bear in mind though, that the anglo-saxons used lunar months, so our "April" and their "Eostermonath" (April) don't quite mesh - Eostermonath would begin on the last new moon which falls in our modern March (confused yet? :lol: )

[RubyRose]

No, the symbols are (as far as we know) nothing to do with Ostara/Eoster.

Ostara and Eoster are the same Goddess in the way that Minerva and Athena are the same - Ostara is continental Germanic, and Eoster is Anglo-Saxon. It just narks me when people say that Ostara is Anglo-Saxon (silly pantheon.org! :lol: )

Yes, she is the Goddess that April is named after, which Bede (an 8th Century monk) tells us was celebrated in April with a few (didn't say how many) days of feasting. The Christians then came along with "new rites" (i.e. new celebrations) and just borrowed the old name Eoster to make the transition easier. We have no more info than that.

Bear in mind though, that the anglo-saxons used lunar months, so our "April" and their "Eostermonath" (April) don't quite mesh - Eostermonath would begin on the last new moon which falls in our modern March (confused yet? :lol: )

Confused ... ah slightly ... when you say Yes, she is the Goddess that April was named after who are you talking about? Ostara?

[mucgwyrt]

Eoster - "Eostermonath" is April's old name.
(edit: which is the anglo-saxon equivalent of Ostara, of course :smile: )

[RubyRose]

Thanks, I've got it now...

[mucgwyrt]

Good-o :smile:
(I dont mind answering questions though ;) )

[RubyRose]

Nice to know...

[IvyWitch]

Okay, so I can see the similarities and such and I've often seen the Celtic Wheel of the Year mentioned around the place (with the exception of Llud's Day) but I've never seen the Christian Holidays represented in such a way.

Anyway, I found this all interesting and thought I'd share it all.

Thoughts, opinions ... etc
RubyRose

They look like they're all Catholic holidays. Though as far as a I know some of them are not celebrated in the church anymore.

[fay]

wow! youve all got me thoroughly confused!!! :lol: just kidding!
do some people really not celebrate bonfire night?! i cant believe it. we have people setting off fireworks randomly all through october AND november!!! then on the fifth and the surrounding weekends there are LOADS (and i mean loads) of public events with enormous bonfires and spectacular fireworks! its way cool! :nyah:
blessed be

[RubyRose]

wow! youve all got me thoroughly confused!!! :lol: just kidding!
do some people really not celebrate bonfire night?! i cant believe it. we have people setting off fireworks randomly all through october AND november!!! then on the fifth and the surrounding weekends there are LOADS (and i mean loads) of public events with enormous bonfires and spectacular fireworks! its way cool! :nyah:
blessed be

Yep, so I'm told...

[skilly-nilly]

Rabbits and Hares are seasonal breeders, and have outrageous mating displays when the year turns in the early Spring. 'Mad as a March hare' is now archaic but described a real phenomon.
Same with eggs. Even hens (as opposed to wild birds mating and building nests) are better layers in the Spring/Summer, although it's not apparant from shopping in grocery stores---the mass egg producers skew the lighting in the egg jails to counteract this.

Soooooo, if Ostara/Eoster's 'time' is Spring, those symbols would naturally be stirred into the pot. I think that it's vital, when researching ancient times, to remember that they lived in the real world in a way that we do not. Seasonal cycles in agriculture and in the wild would be more than obvious to them.

Interesting thread :thewave:
It's nice to read a lot of different people''s input, skilly-nilly