Self-Intiation Questions

[CiaranConri]

1) Do you have to be 14?....i'm only 13 but i want to be intiated now.
2) Does anyone have some suggestions on how to perform the ritual?


I know everyone thinks i'm a teen with a wicca fad... thats not true..i have been studying for 2 years. I just need some help on this part

[Ben Trismegistus]

1) Do you have to be 14?....i'm only 13 but i want to be intiated now.
2) Does anyone have some suggestions on how to perform the ritual?
OK, first things first.

There is no such thing as a "self-initiation". By definition, an initiation is something that is given to you by someone else. You can be initiated into a group by the members of that group, but you cannot initiate yourself. I believe that what you're referring to is a dedication ritual, where you dedicate yourself to the path you've chosen.

There's no age limit to a dedication ritual, but just make sure that it's something you really want to do. By dedicating yourself, you are proclaiming before all the gods in the universe that you are walking a particular path. So make it's the right path for you.

As for your second question, that depends in large part on what path you're dedicating yourself to.

[mudweed]

OK, first things first.

There is no such thing as a "self-initiation". By definition, an initiation is something that is given to you by someone else. You can be initiated into a group by the members of that group, but you cannot initiate yourself. I believe that what you're referring to is a dedication ritual, where you dedicate yourself to the path you've chosen.

There's no age limit to a dedication ritual, but just make sure that it's something you really want to do. By dedicating yourself, you are proclaiming before all the gods in the universe that you are walking a particular path. So make it's the right path for you.

As for your second question, that depends in large part on what path you're dedicating yourself to.

And now, for a second opinion. Keep in mind that Ben does come from a hierarchical tradition, and his opinions on the matter of initiation are influenced by the framework of that tradition, and that not all pagans agree with his assessment (although whether all Wiccans do or not is not something to which I can speak). **here is where I open myself up to all sorts of rhetorical backlash...lucky for me I've already heard it all from Ben** ;)

By definition, initiation is only:
*noun: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new
*noun: an act that sets in motion some course of events
*noun: wisdom as evidenced by the possession of knowledge

That being said, an initiation of any sort is a serious commitment, and I tend to think that perhaps a dedication is what you are looking for, as Ben suggested. And again, even that is something that you probably want to do after you have followed your path for a number of years, and you are sure of exactly what it is you want to make a commitment to (I am not at all meaning to belittle you because of your age, it's just that I myself have been on my own path for at least 10 years, and am not sure that I want to be making any permanent commitments!).

If it were me, I would go for more of a declaration of intent. Using ideas from the internet, perhaps, I think you can come up with a ritual that is meaningful to you and which declares your intention to dedicate yourself to study and practicing your faith, but which does not make for you a commitment which you may not be ready to make.

Good luck, and remember to take all of our advice with a grain of salt. We all mean the best, even when we disagree. :cutie:

[Ron]

1) Do you have to be 14?....i'm only 13 but i want to be intiated now.
2) Does anyone have some suggestions on how to perform the ritual?


I know everyone thinks i'm a teen with a wicca fad... thats not true..i have been studying for 2 years. I just need some help on this part
I assume you are attempting to enter into Garderdarian or Alexandrian traditions, because they are just about the only that sub-sections of which have age limits... although, in my own view, and that of my Teryn, there is no age limit for anything. In that, it doesn't matter if you are two years old or 98, you can still perform the ritual...

Also if you are seeking to be initiated into Garderdarian or Alexandrian traditions, you could easily ask a god or spirit guide to do this for you... who said it had to be another person.

If you are seeking to walk your own path, then forget about initiation and do a devotion rite instead. It's basically the same thing.

As for suggestions as to what to do, I suggest drawing a circle with three candles: one representing male, one female and one the unity of male and female (the untiy candle should be the tallest and the others of equal height). Take each candle, the male first, because you are a female, and balance is key, and just draw a circle, not a pentacle or pentagram, just a circle. Then place each candle at the thirds of the circle and meditate however you wish.. think of your god/dess and their beauty, pralice and intelligence.. then will say something of your own design like "I am thy child, take me into your arms"... then draw runes and pentagrams everywhere... probably in groups of three, because three is a sacred and strong number...

:) :drinking:

[savannahrose44]

If I may....I have been studying magic for nearly 5 years now.....and I have not dedicated/initiated myself to any one path. I feel that it is a serious commitment and it is not to be taken lightly.....and since I am still learning of all the hundreds of paths out there, I don't feel like I have learned enough to make that type of commitment. I would say keep learning and keep looking....there are a million different paths out there and since you've only been studying for 2 years there is bound to be a lot of information out there that you have yet to discover. This doesn't mean that you are any less dedicated to your path....just that you have not found a specific path as of yet...and there is nothing wrong with that. :spinnysmi

[Garden of Eden]

I don't think age should be an issue... I dedicated myself when I was fourteen (I'm fifteen now) following two years of study. I didn't dedicate myself to a particular tradition, just to the ways of the witch. I offered myself to the Gods and vowed to honour and worship them.

I think simple and beautiful is the essence of any dedication or iniatation... Mine certainly was. Go with your intuition :)

[Ben Gruagach]

I'd like to add a few comments based on Charles' post.

Many Wiccan traditions including Alexandrian and Gardnerian Wicca do not recognize an initiation into their tradition as valid unless it is performed by a person who is authorized within their tradition to do those types of initiation. That means that you can't initiate yourself into a specific tradition unless that specific tradition actually says outright that self-initiations are permitted. (I seriously doubt that there are any Alexandrian or Gardnerian groups that do accept self-initiations into their traditions.)

One Wiccan trad that I know does allow self-initiations is Seax-Wica. There's an essay at http://www.witchvox.com/trads/trad_seaxwica.html that explains the basics of the tradition (including the idea of self-initiation.)

I agree with most of the others here who've said that what you're really doing is performing a self-dedication ritual where you promise to yourself and to the Gods and Goddesses, rather than joining the membership of an established sect or tradition. You can dedicate yourself to follow the path of Wicca, for instance, without being a formal member of any actual group.

Dedication ceremonies provide that "first step" in a spiritual career that many people seem to think comes only with an initiation. A dedication is an initiation if we consider initiation by the broader definition that Mudweed provided.

There are some great ideas for self-dedication rituals in the Internet Book of Shadows at http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/index.htm (The whole site, http://www.sacred-texts.com/ is actually an excellent place to explore.) On that Internet Book of Shadows page, just below the Updates and News section, there are some links to things on self-dedication right near the top of the list of contents.

[Shanti]

I think the consept of who excepts self initiation only matters if you want to belong to a group or a coven. If you are solitary the exceptance issue doesnt matter. All that matters to a solitary is their own feelings.

[Ben Trismegistus]

And now, for a second opinion. Keep in mind that Ben does come from a hierarchical tradition, and his opinions on the matter of initiation are influenced by the framework of that tradition, and that not all pagans agree with his assessment (although whether all Wiccans do or not is not something to which I can speak). **here is where I open myself up to all sorts of rhetorical backlash...lucky for me I've already heard it all from Ben** ;)



By definition, initiation is only:*noun: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new

*noun: an act that sets in motion some course of events



*noun: wisdom as evidenced by the possession of knowledge

Well, I disagree with you there. And I'm speaking not from my hierarchical background, but from a historical knowledge of the purpose of initiations throughout history. I'm not sure where you're getting your definitions from. Here's what I can find:



"A ceremony, ritual, test, or period of instruction with which a new member is admitted to an organization or office or to knowledge." (American Heritage Dictionary)



"The form or ceremony by which a person is introduced into any society; mode of entrance into an organized body; especially, the rite of admission into a secret society or order." (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary)



The neopagan notion of "initiation" is based on the Greek tradition of mystery cults, in which a prospective initiate could not know the secrets of the cult until he went through an initiation ritual. For Wiccan religions, the initiation process is also derived from the initiatory ceremonies of the Freemasons.



While you're correct that the word *can* be used to simply mean "beginning something" (as in "initiating a financial transaction"), in a religious context it refers to a ritual conferred upon a seeker by another person or group of people.

This is a sticking point with me. There are an increasing number of people in the pagan community running around saying that they initiated themselves, and forming covens under the false impression that they went through actual degree initiations. In my opinion, this renders the word meaningless.

[Garden of Eden]

But didn't all traditions have to have a 'founding' member of sorts? Doesn't that mean that the orginal member would never have been initated? :ack:

[Shanti]

But didn't all traditions have to have a 'founding' member of sorts? Doesn't that mean that the orginal member would never have been initated? :ack:
Everything started with one persons thought if you look back far enough.

[Ben Trismegistus]

But didn't all traditions have to have a 'founding' member of sorts? Doesn't that mean that the orginal member would never have been initated? :ack:
Yes, that's true. Gerald Gardner (to use an example) was not initiated into Wicca.

To use an analogy, the guy who founded the company never gets a promotion.

[Garden of Eden]

Lol... that's a good point... but it shows how someone who has been iniatated should not be exulted above someone who has not... since all the great and honoured founders were not ;)

[Ben Gruagach]

Yes, that's true. Gerald Gardner (to use an example) was not initiated into Wicca.

To use an analogy, the guy who founded the company never gets a promotion.

Ben... be careful. It hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt yet that Gerald Gardner wasn't initiated into something called either Wicca or witchcraft. Check Philip Heselton's book "Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration" to see what I mean.

I don't doubt that Gardner made Wicca very much into his system and then presented it as a traditional system (highly unlikely, detailed in Ronald Hutton's work as I'm sure you know) but the jury is still out on whether he did learn at least some of it, and did indeed undergo an initiation ceremony, at the hands of prior witches.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

1) Do you have to be 14?....i'm only 13 but i want to be intiated now.
2) Does anyone have some suggestions on how to perform the ritual?


I know everyone thinks i'm a teen with a wicca fad... thats not true..i have been studying for 2 years. I just need some help on this part


there's no age limit.

i was 9 when i dedicated myself to the craft. :)

my suggestions are basically just do what feels right. don't perform a very... heiarchial sort of ritual if you're not comfortable with it. it can be incredibly casual. write your own words, your own verses - don't take them from books. it means more that way, in my opinion; your words will have more power for your purpose than someone else's!

by the way, i'd be very interested in chatting with you. it's rare to find someone near my age on here!

much luck in your endeavours!

[Mab]

I've been studying witchcraft for about 2 years now, practising for about 9months or so. Personally, I tend to see dedication/initiation as a real "I believe this & will walk ONLY this path" sort of thing, so I haven't dedicated myself to anything, really. I'm a solitairy, and I walk my own path & kind of have a "hang everybody who doesn't like it" attitude about it.

I did hit a point where I wanted to do something for me--some sort of special ritual to declare my intentions to seriously study magick. So, what I did was (just this past Feb as a matter of fact), I performed a Seeker ritual for myself & declared to Spirit & the Universt at large that I am declaring myself a serious student. Being a so-called "seeker" allows me the freedom, though, to change my path completely if I feel it necessary.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Ben... be careful. It hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt yet that Gerald Gardner wasn't initiated into something called either Wicca or witchcraft. Check Philip Heselton's book "Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration" to see what I mean.

I don't doubt that Gardner made Wicca very much into his system and then presented it as a traditional system (highly unlikely, detailed in Ronald Hutton's work as I'm sure you know) but the jury is still out on whether he did learn at least some of it, and did indeed undergo an initiation ceremony, at the hands of prior witches.
Yes, but I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that what came to be known as "Wicca" under Gardner bore little resemblance to any witches' coven he may or may not have been initiated into. (into which he may or may not have been initiated?)

I don't doubt that Gardner got a lot of the "meat" of Wicca from existing sources (whether that's from "Old Dorothy" or someone else), but once he began to alter it, it became something entirely new.

In the same vein, you could say that Alex Sanders had a Gardnerian initiation but not an Alexandrian initiation.

[Jenett]

Here's a slightly different take on the age thing - are you able to keep the commitments you're making, and *can you still see yourself keeping those commitments 5, 10, 15+ years down the road, in a variety of different living situations*

Most 14 year olds (and many 16 or 17 year olds) are very dependent on other people - for money, supplies, rides to stores or the library. That means that if your commitments include needing supplies, space, time to yourself, whatever, you're pretty dependent on your family going along with it. Same deal goes if you go off to college.

Now, there *are* lots of alternatives. But some paths are more comfortable with those alternatives than others. And if you commit yourself to something that needs *stuff*, or private time or space, you also need to think about what you're going to do if you find yourself in a situation where that's not so easy.

There are a couple of reasons for age limits in groups. One is that there are practical and legal issues. But more than that, people change a *whole* lot between the time they're 12 and 22. That's normal, it's part of growing up in our society. But it does mean that it's often a good idea to hold off on big long-term commitments until a lot of those big changes have settled down, you've got an idea about career choices and what you need to do to get there, more freedom in deciding where you want to live (both in terms of geography and in terms of 'with someone else, by yourself, whatever')

So again, it matters what your commitments are. A promise to learn a lot more about a chosen path is pretty flexible - if your parents come down hard on your for whatever reason, you move to a new place, things get in the way of specific practices, you can still learn, but change what and how you do things.

If you've commited to a specific path, to specific ritual practices, to a specific tradition, however, things get harder. There may still be some options, but you're going to be more limited (assuming you want to keep your promises.)

The other issue is that in some traditions or paths, a commitment to work towards initiation (or a serious dedication to that specific path) has been known to kick off a lot of changes in people, and to be something that can be a bit distracting from other areas of life.

For someone who's an adult and who's working and either in a stable relationship or not really looking, this usually isn't a huge problem - there are often ways around it. For someone who's already dealing with a lot of changes and trying to deal with social stuff and everything else that high school involves, it can be really very hard. (And very hard on the grades and other stuff that can make a huge difference to your options down the road. It'd be a shame to let stuff get in the way of the rest of your life if you don't need to do that.)

As a result, I suggest that anyone who's not out of college/living independently on their own think *really* hard, and if you've got any doubts at all, make a very gentle, flexible promise ("I commit myself to learning more/becoming a better person/further study about X"). Avoid commiting explicit stuff to a path, deities, or anything else, unless you're absolutely sure you can keep that promise. Those things will still be there in 5 or 10 years if you're sure you want them then. (That goes for adults, too.)

[Garden of Eden]

You make a good point Jennet... but sometimes you know in your heart that you've found your path... nothing will change that. I promised myself to the ways of the witch two years ago and at times my parents make it hard for me to preform rituals and I don't always have the tools that I need. It doesn't make me any less of a witch... In my heart I'm still a priestess of the Goddess and all I truely need is myself and my deities. Rituals and tools are nice, but they're only there as a way of helping us connect with the higher conciousness and in times of need, they aren't necessary.

[Mab]

You make a good point Jennet... but sometimes you know in your heart that you've found your path... nothing will change that. I promised myself to the ways of the witch two years ago and at times my parents make it hard for me to preform rituals and I don't always have the tools that I need. It doesn't make me any less of a witch... In my heart I'm still a priestess of the Goddess and all I truely need is myself and my deities. Rituals and tools are nice, but they're only there as a way of helping us connect with the higher conciousness and in times of need, they aren't necessary.

That's how I see it, too. However, I think the main concern with the age & practicality of dedication is if we're talking about dedicating to a specific tradition that already has their rules set up. Some are not very flexible in the "tools & ritual are nice but not necessary" thing.

However, that said, if you're solitary I wouldn't imagine something like dedicating yourself to "the ways of the witch" as Garden of Eden would be narrowing your options too much. And deities will call you as they feel you are ready, so I don't see that as a particular problem, either.

JMHO

[Jenett]

My point is partly that there *are* traditions that place requirements (usually not so much about equipment per se but about doing ritual in certain ways or at certain times.)

More than that, though, be aware of what you're promising. "I pledge myself to the path of witchcraft" (or whatever) is pretty general: there are lots of ways you can continue to work along that path, even as your life changes.

Some rituals or promises people make get a *lot* more speciifc, though, and that's where you want to be very careful that those are promises you can keep. I'd be cautious of long-term commitments to a specific deity as well (in the sense of "For the rest of my life" or whatever) - much better to promise for a year, or whatever, especially as you're still growing and changing. Things like that.

[Garden of Eden]

Yes... I agree. It's foolish to pledge yourself indefinately to anything too specifiic... just as it's a bad idea to use a specific love spell (could turn out the person is horrible... and you're stuck with them) or a specific justice spell (what if they didn't really do it?! Karma alert!).

[The High Queen of Faerie]

Yes... I agree. It's foolish to pledge yourself indefinately to anything too specifiic... just as it's a bad idea to use a specific love spell (could turn out the person is horrible... and you're stuck with them) or a specific justice spell (what if they didn't really do it?! Karma alert!).


agreed. :) it's best to think things out.

[Garden of Eden]

*high fives cerise*

;)

[The High Queen of Faerie]

*high fives cerise*

;)


*high fives garden of eden* :D i think i agreed with you in another topic, too xD; right on

[mudweed]

I just took the quickie definition off of onelook.com, which gathers definitions from most dictionaries online. I notice that your sources include my definitions as well, although you chose not to include them.

While you're correct that the word *can* be used to simply mean "beginning something" (as in "initiating a financial transaction"), in a religious context it refers to a ritual conferred upon a seeker by another person or group of people.

This is a sticking point with me. There are an increasing number of people in the pagan community running around saying that they initiated themselves, and forming covens under the false impression that they went through actual degree initiations. In my opinion, this renders the word meaningless.

You will note that neither of the definitions you provided said anything about requiring another person to be performed. Ben Gruagach was, as usual, more articulte than I in pointing out that while some traditions do not recognize self-initiation, some do. So, implying that in all religious contexts " it refers to a ritual conferred upon a seeker by another person or group of people" is simply inaccurate.

I knew that this was a sticking point with you, hence the tongue in cheek tone of my post.

While I do agree that there are an increasing number of people running around saying that they have been initiated when they mean self-initiated rather than having been given a "degree" level, I hardly think that they are all invalid. Nor do I think that people who confer the degrees on others are as a whole necessarily any more reputable than the very people you denigrate. Again, I point out that the degree system is a hierarchical one which, while useful for many people (especially in the context of judging others' relative levels of proficiency), many of us find no personal meaning in, either.

Regardless, I don't think we're addressing the actual question particularly well. :)

ps. there are plenty of independent business owners, too, to further your analogy