Saturn Return.

[Danustouch]

I've heard that Saturn return years can be very painful to work through, because of the Karma within it. I'd like to know when my next saturn return will be....could anyone here tell me, if I provided you with my natal info?

[Mairwen]

Your Saturn Return comes once every 30 years. So, your first one would occur anytime between 28 and 32, and the next 30 years later. The Saturn Return occurs when "Saturn Returns" to the exact positioning in your birth chart.

My first Return sucked (if I can't say that, I'll take it out), but I'm much better now! :cool: I've heard that a woman can't officially call herself a Crone until she's hit her second Return. I say that's hogwash. ymmv:rolleyes:

[Danustouch]

Wow...cuz.....with the way my life has been going...I hope its a POSITIVE saturn return..or else i'm in REAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL trouble...lol..just when you thought life couldn't get any worse...SATURN RETURN COMES!!!!!!!

LOL.

Oh well..here's hoping I was VERRRRRRRRRRY good in previous lives.

[Swanspirit]

Merry Mery,
actually , your birth info would be really helpful, because REAL astrology works with the entire chart, and while there are general principles that apply to a saturn return, it depends on the interaction in the entire chart , what the interpretation might be . If you have Saturn aspected by other planets , or it happens to be in an angular house, your return years could be very different than someone elses that say has Saturn in trine to jupiter which would ease things somewhat. If Saturn is already in a touchy placement with difficult aspects the return could mean an easing of those issues now that you have some experience under your belt.
Saturn returns have to do with maturity and finding your life path .
Only YOU were born on that particular day at that precise time in that exact place :>
Love and light
Swannie

[Methanespirit]

Speaking on behalf of the Sidereal Zodiac, Saturn orbits the sun at about the same speed as one's Secondary Moon. Saturn's orbital time is 29.4577 sidereal years, while the Secondary Moon orbits (mean/average) at 27.32166 sidereal years. The only elements on a natal/progressed chart that causes a change in one's life and consciousness is either the Sun or the Moon. It just so happens that Saturn's orbital period is also contemporary with one of the elements of many progressed charts: that being the natal Sun or the natal Moon to make one lap of the zodiac. from its birth position, in 27.32166 years. Progressing the Sun at that rate is called the Quarternary progression system, which is seldom used. However progressing the natal moon at that rate (one lap of the Zodiac in 27.32166 years) equates to the Secondary progressed Moon 's natural movement. (The secondary system equates 1 day of progressed time, to one civil year). Therefore, it is necessary to calculate, using your ephemeris, the time and progressed date of the Secondary Lunar Return, to get a better picture of the factors of events and consciousness that will befall a person at this critical time. And this will explain why the "Saturn Return" is often unpredicatble. As in all Lunar charts, once the Moon has passed its natal position, the angles of the return chart are immediately switched to accommodate the next return which will take place near one's 54th birthday (54.64332 years of age). Due to the long duration of this type of return, the end of an era of one's life from birth is abruptly altered, and sometimes with emotional changes with it, with the passing of the Secondary progressed Moon's to its birth position.

[Swanspirit]

Astrologers using different systems dont see eye to eye or planet to planet for that matter. Are you saying that in the sidereal system the progressions of the other planets are irrelevant?
That is different than what I have learned and experienced that I can hardly relate, much less debate :>
So I will at least offer this thought. Dont you think it is more than coincidental that this moon progression also works in tandem with the same time frame as the Saturn returns? I have done some rectifications using Saturn returns that have been very accurate, and I do believe there is deep relevance to the Saturn Return, as wellas the progression of the moon, and the other planets as well.
Saturn especially being one of the most maligned and least understood of the planets. Father Time, Chronos, the planet of limitations . And the growth from knowing our limits which enables usto act in REALITY and and accomplish important tasks. All of this applies to a Saturn Return I beleive :> but I do thank you for sharing your different perspective Methane, and I always look forward to your posts :>
Love and Lights
Swannie

[Danustouch]

Say WHAT????????? LOL..ok..that was a LITTLE bit confusing to me.

Maybe I can give you my natal info, and someone here can tell me when i'm due for a Saturn return, or if it's already come, for me.

My birthday is 5/22/1975. I was born at 9:01 AM, in Danbury, CT.

[Swanspirit]

shows that you have Saturn at 15 degrees and 15 minutes of Cancer.....so your Saturn return has not yet begun , if you are using the western Zodiacal placement , because Saturn is currently at 13 degrees 15 minutes of Gemini, but you have Saturn Conjunct your Ascendant of 20 degrees of Cancer, so even tho you are a Gemini, you are one of those people that people say YOU dont act like your sign.
You are very much more serious and moody than the classic Gemini and in fact you relate to Cancerians more ,and even sometimes Capricorns.
I would venture to say what you have been experiencing has been Saturn conjuncting your sun,and moving on, so you have had some real problems in the past year confronting issues of maturity , not that you arent mature, just the opposite you are overly responsible. There has been some relief with Saturn moving past your sun , but now you are feeling it again with Saturn approaching you ASC< which is in Cancer and much more emotional in nature . your sensitivies are heightened to the point that you feel the slightest changes ,and you are having difficulty not being blown about and off course by every breeze much less wind.
You will weather this, try and remember that it just FEELS like Hurricanes to you because you are learning but its only a breeze and you wont be blown off course. Your values are maturing and you are learning not to be so easily taken advantage of and that you dont have to be the fall guy or scapegoat for other peoples anger. You get to grow up and learn to say NO without guilt because you know that they are here to learn thir lessons from this planet too ,and that simply by being an adult you are teaching others how as well. The Gemini AIR Sun wants to figure it out quickly and easily, and you are being asked to go deep in Cancer WATER. But you will surface in plenty of time , with lessons intact.
Love and light
Swannie

[Danustouch]

Thank you SOOOOO much.

Yes..that is me in a nutshell. LOL. I've always realized that i didn't truly fit all of the Gemini personality traits. Though..heheh..not so much on the computer, but in real life, I have the diplomacy associated with Gemini..and the verbal skills. Gods..do i LOVE to gab!

And I'm airy in other ways...i'm forgetful...i'm a bit schizo...(as in..two halves of my personality warring. The mature side, and immature side)...and i'm a person who starts many projects, and doesn't see them through. That's a gem thing.

But..I'm not flirty like most Gemini's. I'm actually VERY emotionally attatched in relationships. I always try to be in it for the long haul. And my ultimate desire is to start a family..that is not usually a gemini quality.

Hubby thinks i'm very much a gemini..because Gemini is the eternal child. I admit, I can be very childlike at times. I love to be protected and praised, like a child. But..i think most of the reason he sees me as childlike, is because he's so much older than I. He's 39. oh..and to make it worse..a Taurus. LOL.

Thank you again!

[Methanespirit]

OK on what you posted on the Saturn return. : ) I know that what I am presenting is not the usual accepted Astrology and in fact, I expect some opposition to it. However, all I ask is if someone out there would be interested enough to give Sidereal Astrology a try. Yes, I am aware of what you said, as being the traditional way of accepting Astrological teachings, and what I am presenting is not popular. So the burden of proof lies with me. This is the reason I'm posting in the Sidereal frame of reference. If others reject it and consider it false or unacceptable, I will gladly withdraw my findings. Yes, on the consideration of the other planets and Saturn as being irrelevant when it comes to returns. And it is possible to use a Saturn return for rectification purposes. However, I have found other simpler methods of rectification, especially using the Secondary progression system.

[Swanspirit]

Methane ......
and what occurs to me when I read your theories, which are extremely well presented I might add, is that there is more than one way to arrive at the truth . My friend IOLO has read some of the posts here , and he has no argument with what you are presenting at all , but that its a complicated approach .But I am learning a great deal, and hope you continue to post here , as well as at the Night Sky, where there are a few more people with some in depth astrology experience.
HUGS
Swannie

[Methanespirit]

Danustouch; If you go to the www. Astro.com and have a chart calculated for June 18th 1975 at l9:24:35 EST, for Danbury Ct. you will see your Secondary Lunar Return on paper. I notice that your birth moon is in Libra ( Tropical 25 36' 33") however, and not cancer, if I'm using the correct birth data (May 22, 1975 at 09:01 EDST). Assuming my calculations are correct, the return is quite exciting, as it has a progressed Moon/Uranus conjunction on the Ascendant! This should be a once in a life time era of self discovery, and extensive knowledge enlightenment. Are you planning to move to another (distant) location, or have you moved in the last 2 years? If so, where? -so your chart can be set to the resident angles as well. If you get the chart made, place in it the planetary positions on your last birthday. This will add to the return, the elements that you are most likely to encounter for the ensuing year, until your next birthday in 2002. Then place the same planets in the chart again on your birthday, 2002. I suspect the chart to be active until Sept. 2002. At that time the progressed Moon will pass its natal position inwhich a new set of Astrological mundane angles will be set up.

[Danustouch]

Okay..i'm not an avid astrologer. My friend is...but I'm not. I don't know what ANY of this means. LOL. Is the site you mention a paid site? And why did you use June 18th? I'm confused. Yes..my birth data is correct...May 22nd, 1975, 9:01 a.m , Danbury, CT.

Yes..I have moved in the last two years. I am now living in Pascoag, RI. I am hoping to move again soon, but..we don't know where yet. Will depend on where hubby can find work. My IDEAL place to move, would be back to my hometown..Danbury, CT. But the probability of that is thin.

What kind of transitions are you seeing? I'm always reading new materials, etc...

My friend, the astrologer, mentioned that Jupiter expansion was really coming into play in my chart in the last year..mostly during the spring. Could this have to do with the enlightenment you were seeing?

Please help me understand what you mean...without all the planetary jargon that I just dont' understand. LOL Thank you!

[Danustouch]

btw..i might have mistyped..I think i am Cancer Rising, libra moon.

[Methanespirit]

Danustouch; The date and time given is for your pregressed Lunar return, using the Secondary system -a day of progressed time equating to one year of civil life. What I'm attempting to demonstrate here is that your Secondary Luanr return is equivalent in effect to your "Saturn return". This form of Astrology is event-orineted and should not be read as a birth chart. Moon/Uranus contacts especially on the Ascendant on an event chart usually indicates times of moving, changing residence, higher learning and education, and general intellectual enlightenment. Uranus is always indicative of sociological change, and when unafflicted - advancement.