Road Cutting

[PAGANFILES]

We travel about a good bit. When we're on a weekend drive or going across the country anyone in the car can yell "Road Cut" as we are going thru a section of hill or mountain that the road was cut into when it was being built. We immediately pull over--in a safe spot-- and start road cutting. We carry goggles, hammers, and chisels that we grab and start hunting.

You would be surprised at the amount of very prized stones and crystals we have brought home from these forays. It is very satisfying to bring something that looked "pretty" or "interesting" or even "super ugly," home and track down what it is and how it might be used. We've found helictites in road cuts without a known cave in within miles. Many fractured pieces of clear quartz and some rose. An ancient Crocodile tooth that my daughter thought was a shark's tooth.

I could go on about what we found. But you might want to try it yourself and then we could all try to figure out what it is you've found.

We brought back about 100 lbs of various rocks and crystals from our vacation this past June.

Terry

[katz]

Usually, roads are built by clearing / grubbing any organic growth, placing a layer of soil / sand down, a layer of fabric, a layer of stone, and then the asphalt or concrete - depending on where you are. But usually (especially at the edge of a road) is where the different layers tend to squish out. Also the soil / sand layer is normally trucked in from somewhere else, usually its just left overs from a quarry or mining operation. So what your finding is most likely not indigenous with the areas your at.
Its also not unusual (on an old road) for pieces of quartz or whatever to come out of the asphalt or concrete (depending on the mix design) - these items are normal in a mix. The lime, portland, fines, etc. erodes away and leave the harder rocks.
An all I have to say, DONT let me catch you chipping up a road I just built - If you only knew how much work goes into a stretch of road, your be shoveling your rocks back in!

[PAGANFILES]

Usually, roads are built by clearing / grubbing any organic growth, placing a layer of soil / sand down, a layer of fabric, a layer of stone, and then the asphalt or concrete - depending on where you are. But usually (especially at the edge of a road) is where the different layers tend to squish out. Also the soil / sand layer is normally trucked in from somewhere else, usually its just left overs from a quarry or mining operation. So what your finding is most likely not indigenous with the areas your at.
Its also not unusual (on an old road) for pieces of quartz or whatever to come out of the asphalt or concrete (depending on the mix design) - these items are normal in a mix. The lime, portland, fines, etc. erodes away and leave the harder rocks.
An all I have to say, DONT let me catch you chipping up a road I just built - If you only knew how much work goes into a stretch of road, your be shoveling your rocks back in!


Katz,

I believe I was reasonably clear. You might want to read the post again. A "Road Cut" is where a space for a road is cut through a hill or a mountain rather than going around. They seldom stabilize the walls of such a cut. The rock and soil dislarged by wind and weather is constantly falling on or near the shoulder of the road. The erosion of the walls themselves expose both crystals and fossils from time to time for collecting or later crushing by an 18 wheeler pulling over to park.

Nuff said?
Terry

[MorningDove030202]

That sounds like fun, except I live where there are no hills that a road would cut threw. It's flat here, very very flat.

Dove

[PAGANFILES]

Two words......West Virginia. It makes a nice weekend drive. We even found a couple cuts with thin coal veins. Interesting things can turn up in coal veins.

Terry

[katz]

If I miss intrepeted your original message, I apologize. Now let me be reasonably clear:
There is always reinforcment on the slopes of a road that has been built going through or cut into a hill / mountain. There are actual codes, laws and mathmatical calculations to determine the amount and type of reinforcment per slope, per substrate, per size of road. Just because you dont see sound walls, barrier walls, reinforcement pieces, etc., doesnt mean there isnt rebar, wire mesh, sheet piles, 57-stone, recycled materials, or concrete compacted +/- 6' or more under the exposed slope. In addition, we have been known to move bedrock from one place to another to act as the bulkhead next to the side of a road - rarely is it there naturally. Also, we regulary plant trees and ground cover on these slopes to keep the surface soil from eroding, and because the project will then qualify for "re-establishment / beatufication of the environment" tax money. (Not to say erosion doesnt happen anyway.) Again, these slopes are normally filled with material from another place... The mining companies pay road contractors to haul away and use their left over material. Part of our design / engineering calculations actually tell us how much fill material we have to put behind the walls you mentioned in your post, to help keep them erect and stable.
The only place I can think of where this is NOT the case is on the face of a shear wall - which is only an area of bed rock that has been cut and exposed so that it looks similar to a natural cliff, layers and all. Even then you are taking a risk - this bedrock has been fractured once already and can become unstable and therefore structurally unsound if your chipping into it.
Most roads in the mountains have been built for over 30 years and what looks natural now, didnt when the road was first built. Water sliding down a shear wall will make it look like an old boulder in a very short period of time. After building roads and bridges in different states and with the USACE over the past 12 years for the worlds 2nd largest contractor, up and down the blue ridge, from PA to GA, including LA and WVA - I do believe I know just a wee bit about road construction. What your doing (even if you are chipping into a shear wall) is extremely dangerous and illegal - guess why its illegal? Its illegal because these areas have to be repaired to maintain their structural integrity and therefore public safety. What happens to the debris your leaving behind - or do you sweep up behind yourself? What happens in two or more years when water is continually freezing in the new cracks your creating? What happens to that stone when youve fractured it and it goes through temperature extremes that are normal in the mountains? What will you do when a tired driver comes around that corner just a little too fast and never saw you? What your doing is costing tax payer dollars and endangering yourselves and the traveling public. (Especially when I think of all the places throughout the mountains and piedmont that are free and open to the public for digging, fossil hunting, general prospecting, surface mining, etc.)
Im sorry, I just dont agree with what your doing and I think if I told you more about the guys who have died or been seriously hurt simply by the traveling public, never the less the occasional landslide or loose boulder just to build these roads, youd understand a little better.

[PAGANFILES]

Katz,

I won't go to war with you....I and many others will just keep on doing what we've been doing for 50 or so years. Btw...never drive into Texas there's a law the prohibits women behind the wheel of a moving vehicle.

Terry

[Windigo]

Alright, everybody breathe...

[Tsuchimaru]

Agreed....

Hmm....I should go try this up in the Highlands....

[PAGANFILES]

On our vacation we made a large circle through the 4 corners area. It's a sure thing you have a good road cut coming up when you see a symbolic warning sign, placed by the Feds or state, of a car with a squeeshed top and a large rock in the squeesh. Some road cuts in wyoming were marked by the state with what might be found. I've never been to Nova Scotia, but we own land in Maine and one of the things we look for is glacial cut patterns on some of the larger rocks lying about road cuts.

Terry

[Aine of the Fae]

One quick note to katz, just because there are codes and regulations now, does not mean there were codes and regulations when the roads PAGNAFILES was driving on were built. Codes and regulations are a fairly recent addition to the legal system.

[PAGANFILES]

Aine,

It is the present I do Road cut every chance I get. If you read my first post and Katz's response carefully you'll see that Katz makes her own suppositions, then takes them as facts, though such are not mentioned. Because I mentioned geology hammers and chisels, in an early post, she supposed we were chipping away the road. Then, when corrected, she supposed we were chipping away the walls of the cut. The young lady has an awful need to be right, in control, and chastizing a bad Old Codger. Read the posts carefully, it is amazing how she takes a simple post and builds her own facts (never mentioned in mine) and then builds a case against those facts and not what is mentioned in my text.

Thank you for your concern.
Terry

[katz]

Ill agree to disagree. But TX may want to change its laws since we women help build those roads we're not allow to drive on. Boy, at sure has changed in 50 years!

[katz]

Generally speaking: Building codes were introduced by the end of the industrial revolution to protect construction worker safety as well as to improve the working environment. They were tightened up significantly during the great depression for the work programs and again immediately following WWII and through the 50s due to the significant advancements in technology. Plus, codes and regulations (as well as building practices, means, and methods) specifically for road work hasnt changed hardly at all since the 30's. If theres a road that isnt dirt or gravel in the US, it has been affected by a code or regulation at least since the 70s as almost all states have a regular (if not annual) inspection program that they have to maintain to get Fed tax dollars to help pay for new construction.
Also, Im sorry if it seems Im making assumptions - purhaps a better description of what is actually being done, where its being done, and with what tools would be more helpful. Evidently, there is plenty of room for this confusion - or is it that I dont take everything I read at face value?
As for my need to be right, maybe your correct and I am a little self-rightous. But then, have you been in my work boots lately? Have you seen men killed when repairing a highway in the mountains? Have you seen workers seriously hurt when their equipment tipped over due to the angle of slope being built on the side of a road? Have you almost been killed while working on a road when a careless driver decided to switch lanes too quickly? Have you called an injured worker's spouse to explain why? Have you been a team member with several state, USACE and fed agencies designing roads and buildings so they are safer, more utilitarian and will last longer? Maybe - Maybe Not? I invite you to look at the other facets of your actions, and if thats beating up on someone, I apologize.

[Rockprincess]

Wow, this is a bit heated, for the rocks and crystals forum! :lol:

Katz, geologists go to road cuts all the time, because it offers a cross-section of the rocks in the area. The little bit of banging we do does no damage to the stability of the slopes. Beleive me, if it did, the field trips required to get our degrees would be outlawed, because they have to go through every governmental check in the world before the students are allowed out on them.

We don't go to road cuts that are currently under construction and get in the workers' way, we go to older cuts, where Mother Nature has taken the time to remove the debris and we can get a clear look at the rocks.

It's too bad there were misunderstandings on all parts here - hopefully we can move on to more constructive topics.

[katz]

[QUOTE=Rockprincess]Wow, this is a bit heated, for the rocks and crystals forum! :lol:
Beleive me, if it did, the field trips required to get our degrees would be outlawed, because they have to go through every governmental check in the world before the students are allowed out on them.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! As long as someone can attest to a safe area, knows the work is going on, and can monitor the work so no damage is done - wonderful! Go to town! I called my contacts with VDOT and MDOT after first reading your post and they told me that "as long as its a state monitored program... but if your caught and your not supposed to be there, your the one with a problem..." SO I guess we can get at least this out of our little discussion: As long as your in an area the state has preapproved for all the reasons mentioned in above posts, your free to dig.

[PAGANFILES]

Wow, this is a bit heated, for the rocks and crystals forum! :lol:

Katz, geologists go to road cuts all the time, because it offers a cross-section of the rocks in the area. The little bit of banging we do does no damage to the stability of the slopes. Beleive me, if it did, the field trips required to get our degrees would be outlawed, because they have to go through every governmental check in the world before the students are allowed out on them.

We don't go to road cuts that are currently under construction and get in the workers' way, we go to older cuts, where Mother Nature has taken the time to remove the debris and we can get a clear look at the rocks.

It's too bad there were misunderstandings on all parts here - hopefully we can move on to more constructive topics.


Actually, I didn't think of road cutting, I learned it. I got quite a reputation with the physical science department of a College many years ago because this "crazy guy who does plays and poetry over in English" would always show up with a big grin, a rock hammer, a 41 ford, and ten million questions. I've still got a couple of "Missouri Cannon Balls" from those days and a nearly complete Crinoid.

Terry