Kemetic Orthodoxy / House of Netjer

[Erincelt]

This is just a general discussion thread for those of us who are invovled with KO/HoN and for those curious about it. I'm starting this thing for the sake of the dedicated crowd of us that have come out of the woodworks on a certain couple of other threads, so that we can have our own little KO-specific domain to keep stocked with our favorite cakes and cookies. And beer. And pudding.

So there you have it. Commence the dancing and pie-eating contests.

[Cyclona]

I'm a beginner and so far I have no problems at all with the beliefs, or the teachings. I like that it's organized. I think structure can be a good thing. I like the fact that HoN has a Nisut.

:)

[Erincelt]

Now see, that very organisation was something that nearly turned me right off. I've always been uncomfortable with so-called "organised religion" and was uncertain how I felt about the Nisut. Luckily, I came to see the role the orgnisation plays in the House, and the special role of the Nisut as our living example (a job I certainly wouldn't want) rather than the typical "cult leader" out to live off of the naive public. It occured to me that this sort of organisation was something I'd actually been missing without realizing it. The House has a way of making one do a lot of thinking and introspection, it seems.

[darastar]

Ooooh, a KO thread - yay!! :clapping:

Erincelt, I know what you mean about very nearly being put off the whole 'organised religion' thing, I am still in the process of 'getting over' the whole idea of the organisation, clergy, the role of the Nisut (AUS) etc. I have spent so many years of my life on a solitary path, it is definitely a change of scenery for me, and one which (so far!) I am enjoying very much.

One thing I am curious about (and haven't dared ask on the HoN boards!!) is what is the story behind the 'rivalry' (for want of a better term) between the HoN and Per-Ankh - I have seen threads on other boards (Beliefnet, for one) and there always seems to be a certain level of.... animosity.. between them - did something happen to cause this? How does Per-Ankh differ in it's beliefs and teachings from the HoN? Is it just that they don't have a Nisut? Are they ex-House members with a grudge?

[Ahautenites]

**looks around the thread admiringly** Nice decor. :) **grabs a strawberry daiquiri malt beverage (because I finally chose a flavor and I hate regular beer and ale)** I agree about liking, yet being wary of, the organized part of the religion. It scared me away for a year or so before I finally decided to take the class again this time around. I'd been observing Hemet for a year before taking the class the first time, and then I observed her for a year after I took the class the first time. I'm just so leary of entrusting my spiritual tutelage to someone else. I feel really glad that they have the new Ask The Nisut (AUS) forum. I don't feel right about posting there, though. I think anything I want to know would be better going through the hierarchy first, and then if they said it was okay, *then* I would pose my question to Her in that forum.

**reads the post about the rivalry and smiles gently** It's a very touchy matter that both sides would like to leave in the past, though I know there are *some* references to it in some older HoN threads. You may also find some mentions of it in the archived threads on Beliefnet's Kemetic forum, too. We have MW members who are affiliated with HoN and members who are affiliated with Per Ankh, so just be sure to tread carefully so as not to insult anyone on either side of the issue. Both approaches to Kemetic practice are valid for their practitioners and are worthy of respect.

From what I gather, Per Ankh's chief priest was a student of Hemet and HoN several years ago. But the bottom line is that there was a difference of opinion between them and so that student left and founded Per Ankh on the belief that there doesn't need to be a Nisut in order for one to be Kemetic. That's the long and short of it, from what I've read. But as I said, both approaches are valid for their practitioners, and that shouldn't hinder any inter-faith dialogue that occurs here or elsewhere.

[argento_occhi]

For me, it's not the 'organised religion' part that turns me away. it's more the fact that i prefer finding my own beliefs. Maybe some day in the future, i'll be ready for it, but at the moment, i much prefer making my own path to the Netjeru. i hang around there mainly as a meeting place, so i can tak and discuss stuff, though it took me absolutely ages to make up my mind to join. for me, i'll have to be completely ready before i do the beginners class. sounds weird i know, but i feel like i'm not at the right stage in my own development for that. One day in the future, perhaps...

[darastar]

To be honest, I wasn't sure I was ready for it, either. All I knew was I had this sudden compulsion to learn more about the Names, and no matter how hard I tried to ignore this feeling, it just kept coming back. I prayed to Yinepu for guidance, and all I got from Him was the distinct feeling that I should definitely do the course, that it was was the next step to take. Still I dithered and deliberated, and finally made up my mind to apply - just to discover I'd missed the cut-off date by a matter of days.... :foopsies: But throughout all of this, there is definitely a feeling of not exactly being sure *why* I'm doing this, I just know that right now in my life, I *have* to... if that makes sense....:ggrief:

[argento_occhi]

i know what you mean. i get those sometimes. a feeling that i have to do something. I get that about a lot of the pictures i draw for Them. I dunno why i'm choosing to draw an offering scene with me in it, but there you go. Sometimes i just pick up the pack of clay i have and make something.

bright blessings
argent

[Morgandria]

I honestly have no idea what to think about the House of Netjer. I've been to their site and read some; I've also been to other sites who aren't fans, just trying to get a rounded opinion. I admit the concept of the Nisut puts me off a lot. It seems cultish to me. But I can't really form an opinion out of experience, either, since I'm in bloody Canada and not anywhere near the HoN.

I also don't really get this whole concept of Netjer. Monolatry just really doesn't "do it" for me, and I've never really figured out where the idea started that it was in fact monolatry and not polytheism that the Egyptians were practicing. On the flip side of that coin, I lean to reconstructionist practices, and I like to know what things are proper to honouring specific deities. I don't really like to honour deities as "neo-pagan" and just do the same things but insert different names into scripts, or keep the same altars and just place a different statue or image.

All that being said, I really am fairly new to the concept of honouring Het-Heru/Sekhmet, and don't mind asking questions that might help me.

[Cyclona]

I was wary of HoN for a year over the Nisut issue before I decided to join up. *wrinkles brows and thinks* I just feel as though I wasn't getting enough, sort of. I'm Kemetic but I was feeling like I wanted more than what my personal studies was giving me. My take on it is that the ancient Kemets had a Nisut. I wish to follow the path my culteral ancestors took and I like the organization and structure of HoN. It is cultish, but that doesn't have to a be a bad thing, in my opinion. As of yet no one has demanded that in order to join up I must do something that would harm others or myself. *wrinkles nose* Hope I made sense.

[cheddarsox]

I am in the current beginners class. I am keeping an open mind about it (as much as possible). I did not join the class with the intent of joining, but with the intent of coming to a greater understanding. I am very pleased to meet others and have the chance to discuss beliefs, practice and even the Nisut.

I have issues in general with strict recon religions and orthodox religions. I need to examine my feelings and see if they are well placed, or is I am using them as a screen to not deal with things that I need to deal with. I am not sure that it feels right to me to take a religion so completely out of context of time and place and say this is how it NEEDS to be done. Religion and relationships with the divine are so dynamic, so personal, so immersed in culture and the situational needs of a people. I am in the class because I want to know how Kemet deals with these aspects of their faith.

I am very cautious about signing on to anything. I move slowly, and thing alot. However, I am enjoying the process, and no matter the outcome, I am learning a lot and growing in spirituality.

Em hotep!

cheddarsox

[Ahautenites]

They definitely appreciate people coming to them with an open mind to learn about their practices. They won't hold it against you when you tell them near the end of class that you're choosing to go your own way. They'll even offer to give you guidance in finding any other groups, traditions, or practices you might wish to study.

There are a couple good threads on the forums that deal with sketicism. They go so far as to say that Netjer *wants* people to question things, rather than just following directions blindly.

[Erincelt]

Another issue for me, for a short while, was this idea of "monolatry" a whole new term for me. I usually self-identify (if I must) as a panentheist (note the all-important "en" syllable, please) but it took me some while to make the connection between the two (although now it just seems so obvious). I definitely feel as though the House is not nearly as rigid as the word Orthodox makes most (including me) think... in fact, there was actually a thread started on where the "Orthodoxy" comes in with the House, and I find the answer quite satisfactory. (Check the "Ask the Nisut (AUS)" section.)

Every day I'm surprised more and more at my comfort level. I guess I finally found my home. ;) But, as with anything else, some of us were meant to rest our hearts in front of some other hearth, and that's okie dokie with me. :D

[Khuinaset]

I usually self-identify (if I must) as a panentheist (note the all-important "en" syllable, please)

Sorry to ask an off topic question, I'm reading all of this with interest, but what is a panentheist exactly? I've heard of pantheist but not with the 'en' in it.

[Morgandria]

Here are some descriptions. Remember venn diagrams from long-ago math classes? The ones with overlapping groups of color showing how sets overlap?

In classical theism, God is a blue circle, and the world is a red circle, and they don't overlap at all -- by a theological mystery God reaches out to touch the world, but God is still the Wholly Other.

In pantheism, on the other hand, there's one big purple circle.

In panentheism, there's a blue circle with a purple circle inside it -- everything in the world is in and of God, but God is even more than that.

[Khuinaset]

Yeah, right after I posted that a friend found an explanation for me. That's a nice way to put it though :D (except that we always used those in language class, not math class :tongueout )

[Kheti]

I posted something here the other day now its gone.

[Ahautenites]

Sahu, are you sure you posted it to this thread?

I show you as having posted in these four threads:

Greetings
Kemetic Orthodoxy / House of Netjer
Egyptian / Egyptian Wicca
Greetings::::

Maybe you posted your message to one of them instead?

[Redshire]

I'd never heard of monolatry before this thread. It certainly does make sense (being a panentheist as well).

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary! :)

em hotep!

[Erincelt]

Now that Circles analogy is real winner... wish I could've thought of something like that. Glad you responded before I did. :) *quickly jots it down for future regurgitation*

[Kheti]

Sahu, are you sure you posted it to this thread?

I show you as having posted in these four threads:

Greetings
Kemetic Orthodoxy / House of Netjer
Egyptian / Egyptian Wicca
Greetings::::

Maybe you posted your message to one of them instead?

You are correct those are the only posts I made.It was on the Egyptian/Wicca thread..sorry.
As for me.I liked the monolotry idea the first time I read about. I am still iffy on the organized part of Kemetic Orthodoxy.But I dont know that much about it at the time. I am a follower of Imn(Amun)Ra and Mwt(Mut) and them only.The other netjeru I see as only aspects of them.

[cheddarsox]

I am a panentheist as well.

cheddar

[ObsidianShenKa]

My gods are Kemetic. I specifically honour Ptah and the Eye above all.

I loved Kemet.org when I saw it. Incredibly resourceful, and every KO'er I've encountered has been a good person. But a white woman in Illinois (i think it is) is NOT the Pharaoh, and I'll be damned if I'm going to submit to her as such. No. No way.

[Ahautenites]

You're entitled to your beliefs and practices. I shared them for awhile, myself. :) But we got your point on the matter in the other two posts where you said the same thing, in the exact same rather disrespectful way. This thread is for HoN members, who are those who *do* treat "some white woman in Illinois" as a spiritual leader. She *does* have a name (a Kemetic one as well as a common one) and She *is* worthy of at least the decency of your calling Her by the common name (Tamara Siuda). As I said, you are entitled to believe Her claim or not, but regardless, She has a Master's Degree in Egyptology, teaches many classes on the subject, gives seminars, and represents Her people in world religious conferences. If you had read anything She's ever written, you would also see that, even if one doesn't think She is invested with the kingly Ka, She does happen to be clergy, and She got it by being the pious, caring, devoted, wise person that She is. She has said many times that She doesn't mind the well wishes of Her people, but She doesn't want people to "submit" to Her, either. She's there to serve Her people. And She does that with every fiber of Her being, every minute of every day.

[Erincelt]

I would've just ignored it and let Nefer's response stand, but I can't help rolling my eyes at:
a white woman And what is this part supposed to imply? Or rather, just what race were the old Egyptians then, mm? Last time anybody checked, they were a conglomerate of people from: Nubia, India, Greece, Arabia (mostly Hebrew), Rome, the Sahara region... Or in short, many races were represented, and not all of them African... if that was what you were implying. Egypt was the melting pot that America likes to claim to be. (I won't even bother mentioning Hekatawy's (AUS) lineage.)

Nobody is forcing you to accept anything. Now kindly let us have our thread back.

[Ahautenites]

**nods** Kemetics of those years didn't care what color skin anyone had. (Set is a natural REDHEAD for crying out loud.) It was what was inside that made a Kemetic a Kemetic, and that is what we believe today, too.

I think the Beginners class is going to be something I take once a year every year because the new people that join are constantly coming up with new questions we can all learn from. I really am enjoying reading the chat logs this time around. KI Ini has done a phenomenal job in getting us to think and ask questions, and she has wonderful explanations. Can't wait until I have my own phone line and Internet connection again so I can start playing that game link she sent us as a Wep Ronpet gift. It looks awesome. :)

[Erincelt]

I think the Beginners class is going to be something I take once a year every year because the new people that join are constantly coming up with new questions we can all learn from. I know that feeling... which is why I'm thinking of applying to be a Beginners' Liaison for the next group, so I can participate with them a bit. Although people really are starting to use those forums.

[Cyclona]

**nods** Kemetics of those years didn't care what color skin anyone had. (Set is a natural REDHEAD for crying out loud.) It was what was inside that made a Kemetic a Kemetic, and that is what we believe today, too.

Nicely put :)

[argento_occhi]

took the words outta my mouth.

[Ahautenites]

**sighs** Some day, I really do want to be there for the New Year festivities. It sounds like such a wonderful experience. And I'm *dying* of curiosity to see what an actual Saq is like.

[argento_occhi]

so am i. curious but afraid i'll get completely whigged out. i take an open mind with me wherever i go, HoN included, as i don't hold anything against them. There's is as valid a path as mine.

[Erincelt]

I didn't even get to attend the simulcast, let along the real deal. Which sucks, as this would've been the first Saq I'd attended... oh well, there's always next time. (Speaking of which, I hope they get the calendar updated soon... so I'll know when the next time is.)

Dua Ra! Dua Netjer, nekhtet!

[ObsidianShenKa]

**nods** Kemetics of those years didn't care what color skin anyone had.*slaps forehead*

And the entire point of that sentence went over your heads for the sake of slinging mud.

(Set is a natural REDHEAD for crying out loud.)...and redheads were deemed unlucky because of this.

You two totally missed my point. :rolleyes:

[Morgandria]

No...I think they got it quite well. You don't like HoN. That's great. This is not a thread for "I don't like HoN" - this is a thread for those who DO like HoN to talk about it. You're welcome to start your own thread, but please, don't clutter this one up with repeated posts on how we missed your point.

[Ahautenites]

Okay, people. For the record, I slung no mud. If I had, my post would have been moderated. However, if you *do* feel that what I did was wrong, you are free to report the post and Mol, Semele, Kaylara or Xentor will review it. If they believe the post needs editing, they will edit it and post a warning.

Moving on.....

The reason red hair was considered unlucky was that it associated the redhead with Set, Who was, in later periods, looked on as One to be feared and avoided. Originally, He was seen as a very helpful Name of Netjer Who was the only one strong enough to defeat Apep every single night and secure safe passage for Ra each night so that He would continue to rise each morning. *My* point for suggesting Set's hair color, which apparently *you* missed, was that even though Set had hair color outside of the norm for Kemetic people, He was still adopted as a *Kemetic* god. Not "some red-haired god from Babylonia or Wherever." He was accepted for what He is, not for what He looked like.

ErinCelt ~ :( That bites. The calendar wasn't updated so you missed it? What a bummer. Glad they have them, like, once a month.

Has anyone seen any really good documentaries that they can recommend? I'm all reference booked out at the moment. Need something that will fit in well with my short attention span. What I'd like to do is eventually acquire enough books and documentaries on the subject that I could have either a book club or a documentary review discussion session with you all (and anyone else who joins us), so that we can benefit by learning what everyone else got out of these things.

[ObsidianShenKa]

The reason red hair was considered unlucky was that it associated the redhead with Set, Who was, in later periods, looked on as One to be feared and avoided. Originally, He was seen as a very helpful Name of Netjer Who was the only one strong enough to defeat Apep every single night and secure safe passage for Ra each night so that He would continue to rise each morning.Yup.

Then people started seeing chaos as baneful.

*My* point for suggesting Set's hair color, which apparently *you* missed, was that even though Set had hair color outside of the norm for Kemetic people, He was still adopted as a *Kemetic* god. Not "some red-haired god from Babylonia or Wherever." He was accepted for what He is, not for what He looked like.I understood your point, and while yours is valid, it did not fit the context of what I was saying, which apparently is invalid here because I'm not KO.

*shrug*

*leaves thread*

[Ahautenites]

Your opinions *are* valid. That's why I didn't comment on it in either of the other two threads where you post it. But this particular thread *is* for KO students and members. If it were a Catholic thread, people might get ticked off if some new person came in and announced to them, "I'm a non-practicing Catholic but I refuse to believe some Latin-speaking old geezer in the Vatican is our spiritual leader."

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what your point in posting here was. I still don't see any other meaning to it other than stating that you don't think someone not of the race you approve of is considered a spiritual leader. If that isn't what you meant, then feel free to clarify.

[ObsidianShenKa]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what your point in posting here was. I still don't see any other meaning to it other than stating that you don't think someone not of the race you approve of is considered a spiritual leader. If that isn't what you meant, then feel free to clarify.
Actually, the point (and it may have been rude to do so) was to present that argument, that it would be countered. And race is NOT the issue — that was quipped completely out of context of the cultural element of being a "white woman in Illinois".

I actually want to believe that KO isn't a cult, and there really is no "nice" way to present that and be heralded seriously. If it is a cult, members will get pissed off if their leader is even indirectly insulted. If it isn't, then intelligent discussion will ensue.

I did hijack the thread, and that was rude of me, and I apologise. But based upon the reactions I got in here, I fear my suspicions were correct. I sincerely hope I'm proven otherwise.

Cheers,
Obsidian Shen Ka

[Ahautenites]

Cheers, back atcha.

Thank you for that. :) I hadn't considered it from that perspective at all.

For what it's worth, I disagree with probably everyone else in the House about its "cult"-ness and/or lack thereof. I do think it's a cult, but a "soft core" cult, for lack of a better expression. I think they are a cult of the *orginal* meaning of the word (that of growing their numbers by non-purple-Kool-Ade-drinking kind-of-strange nurturing and openness), not the David Koreshian meaning. The word just has so many negative connotations now that it's probably hopeless to try to get back the original meaning.

But I'm reminded of a scene from "A Knight's Tale."

Roland says, "You're not of noble birth. You have to be of noble blood to compete."
And William answers, "How did the nobles become nobles then? They took it. A the tip of a sword. I'll do it with a lance!" (And Wart interjects, "A blunted lance.") And it ends with William saying that, "With 13 gold pieces, a man *can* change his stars."

That's my long and convoluted way of saying that She's been in the process of creating an organized religion, in the face of incredible odds and constant skepticism, and for that, I think She's worthy of respect.

I really don't know how She can be so sure of Her lineage (though I'm sure She'd tell you as much as She knows of it), but I've been studying every word of Hers I can find online for the last two years and I can't find *anything* that makes Her seem any less than what I would expect an extremely caring spiritual leader to be. If there's ever a flaw or a chink in the vision She presents to the world at large, I and every other skeptical person there will bolt as fast as possible.

I can promise you I haven't been brainwashed. And I'm constantly on the alert for *anything* to tell me it's time to high-tail it out of there and never look back. (It's pretty much the same thing I do to my closest friends: No matter how many times they do something wonderful for me, I'm always waiting for the axe to fall, for my inner doubt to prove right, and that *this* time, they've fulfilled my idiotic suspicions that they really don't like me and that they really aren't my friends.)

[ObsidianShenKa]

I'm not an asshole, I'm just misunderstood ;)

Your assessment seems valid, and I suppose I would have to get to know her in order to pass further judgment. That's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for. Let's hope others here don't have blinders on.

And yes, by cult, I meant the classic definition where a group of people subscribe to an organized religion with a central leadership with absolute power.

I hope and pray she doesn't eventually misuse that power. Again, I do not know her nor the HoN very intimately and thus cannot accurately assess that.

This is my chance to expose myself to those in KO without actually registering on kemet.org (which I have almost done, several times).

Cheers,
Obsidian

[Ahautenites]

**laughs** Heh. Could be worse. I *am* an ass, *and* I'm misunderstood.

The best suggestion I can give you is to read everything on the public Kemet.org boards. I did that. (It took me two weeks to read everything available in the forums.) Then, read all of Her daily devotions. (That will take another week, if you read one or two years' worth of entries a day.) And read all She wrote in the Wehem letters. (That might take a couple days but it's enlightening reading.) And then, I went a step further: I went on Google and did a search for Her common name and one for Her other names (Hemet, Heret, Hekatawy, and Nisut) to find out exactly what goes on on other communities She belongs to. I did come across a little bit of animosity, but from what I could read, of Her posts and of the opposing parties, I was inclined to share Her opinion on the matters at hand.

One last thing you might do is look on Kemet Online and Beliefnet to see what *they* have to say about Her. Then balance that with what you've read already. Whichever one has the most ring of truth is the one that you should stick with, regardless of which side that may be.

I've been given to understand that She works 60 to 80 hours a week for KO, by means of praying for anyone who asks for it four times daily (and Her list is huge), doing interfaith work, answering countless questions, working on upcoming rituals and preparations for gatherings, teaching at the seminary, brainstorming for new activities (there was talk of creating a magazine, but that idea's been put on the backburner for now) and preparing for events. It sounds like exhausting work. Fulfilling, but exhausting. I don't think She has much time left to misuse power. I don't think She *would* misuse it, either. One of the benefits to being in the class has been access to the private boards, which now means that we can ask Her questions directly (something that was never done before). It allows people to see that She knows Her stuff, and She's extremely down to earth and easy to approach. I'm really glad I decided to take the class again. It's been completely different from the last time (I had a different teacher then, too), and much more interesting.

[ObsidianShenKa]

**laughs** Heh. Could be worse. I *am* an ass, *and* I'm misunderstood.Oh, I'm definitely asinine ^_^

The best suggestion I can give you is to read everything on the public Kemet.org boards. I did that. (It took me two weeks to read everything available in the forums.) Then, read all of Her daily devotions. (That will take another week, if you read one or two years' worth of entries a day.) And read all She wrote in the Wehem letters. (That might take a couple days but it's enlightening reading.) And then, I went a step further: I went on Google and did a search for Her common name and one for Her other names (Hemet, Heret, Hekatawy, and Nisut) to find out exactly what goes on on other communities She belongs to. I did come across a little bit of animosity, but from what I could read, of Her posts and of the opposing parties, I was inclined to share Her opinion on the matters at hand.If I feel so inclined, I shall. Thanks for the info.

One last thing you might do is look on Kemet Online and Beliefnet to see what *they* have to say about Her. Then balance that with what you've read already. Whichever one has the most ring of truth is the one that you should stick with, regardless of which side that may be.Well, I've been to kemet.org many, many times, and referred others to that site (I wonder if they ever joined?). Yes, that is the best advice one can give.

I've been given to understand that She works 60 to 80 hours a week for KO, by means of praying for anyone who asks for it four times daily (and Her list is huge), doing interfaith work, answering countless questions, working on upcoming rituals and preparations for gatherings, teaching at the seminary, brainstorming for new activities (there was talk of creating a magazine, but that idea's been put on the backburner for now) and preparing for events. It sounds like exhausting work. Fulfilling, but exhausting. I don't think She has much time left to misuse power. I don't think She *would* misuse it, either. One of the benefits to being in the class has been access to the private boards, which now means that we can ask Her questions directly (something that was never done before). It allows people to see that She knows Her stuff, and She's extremely down to earth and easy to approach. I'm really glad I decided to take the class again. It's been completely different from the last time (I had a different teacher then, too), and much more interesting.Interesting. I could never be that selfless.

Thanks. This discussion may prove fruitful after all.

*unleaves thread*

Cheers,
Obsidian

[Erincelt]

Well you see, we are a cult... unashamedly. :) Sorry for reacting a bit hastily... I'm guilty (as anyone is I guess) of reading inflections in words that the writer might never have intended. Such is the bane of the online world, neh? I assumed the context (yes, I know, "ass out of you and me" and all that).

On the note of absolute authority, though... For the most part, Her authority is fairly lax. And if one wants to get technical (what, me? technical? never! ;)) if one were to ask me who the "head of the faith" is, I would say the Heri-Tep Hem Netjer, Craig Schaeffer. (I think I spelled that last name right.) So its a shared responsibility really.

[ObsidianShenKa]

Bonus points for being federalised, I suppose.

I'm still quite wary about the whole thing, especially after the instant static I got in response (as I rather expected).

My next question would be, now that you admit the HoN to be a cult, how do you rationalize being in a cult? How do you rationalize putting someone else in charge of your spiritual direction? I keep a very tight rein on whom I allow to influence me spiritually, and as such I can't really understand how one's mind could be so open as to let one's brain fall out. :P

I consider an open mind to be having convictions and sticking to them, but allowing them to be subject to change.

I want you to change my mind on this.

AUS,
OSK

[darastar]

Hi Obsidian!

I suspect the "instant static" you received was more to do with what was perceived to be a remark about race, rather than a knee-jerk response to being involved in a cult.

Just chipping in my two cents here - I am currently in the beginner's class at HoN, and up until late last year, had no interest whatsoever in Ancient Egypt. I had been following a fairly eclectic solitary path for over a decade now, and like you, felt extremely wary at the thought of just letting someone else be in charge of my spiritual direction. I did all the things NeferSesemet recommended (read lots, ask questions until people get sick of the sight of you!!) and the thing that I found out is, I'm not handing over the reins of my spirituality to ANYONE... the only person in charge of my spiritual direction is still me, as far as I'm concerned. The HoN has many wonderful teachers, and they will help guide you and teach you, but the only way someone else can be responsible for your spiritual direction is if YOU choose to let them... I chose to join the class, and I can choose how far my involvement in the HoN will go. They have already made it clear that once the beginer's class is over, I am free to either continue my spiritual journey with the HoN if I desire, or if I decide it's not the right path for me, to move on, with nothing but good wishes. There is no pressure to join if you don't think it's right for you.

FWIW, I don't think any of us should have to try and make you change your mind - nobody here is out to recruit new members, as far as I am aware. If it's something you're interested in, I would encourage you to look further into it, knowing that there are no catches, no hidden traps, no demands for money (the beginner's class is free).

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[ObsidianShenKa]

Thanks for the feedback, Darastar. You've given me food for thought for the night.

And, FWIW, this is me looking further into it.

[Ahautenites]

Just a quick reply to the Kemet.org thing.... Kemet.org is owned and operated by the House of Netjer, which is Kemetic Orthodox. Kemet Online (www.kemetonline.com) is completely different. :) They're Kemetic, but not Orthodox. :) They take a Nisut-less approach to the religion (but their chief priest serves in lieu of a Nisut).

Longer note on the other questions. How can I be in a cult? Well, right now, I'm not. :) I'm a student of the beginners' class. And when you ask the question like that, with that meaning of "cult", it really isn't appealing at all.

Cult: 1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

Yes. It is that.

2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Yes, it is that.

3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

And this here would be the meaning that gets the most publicity, all of it BAD.

4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>

I don't think this one applies.

5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Well, I'm not sure that Kemetic Orthodoxy really does have a "cult following" in the way that Barbra Streisand might, but I suppose it works.

(**edited to add** Here's me going into scholastic debate mode, which should not be confused with whiny, gripey, poor-me mode.)

What I would like to know is..... How is the organized religion of the House of Netjer any different from other religious establishments? It has a leader, a group of clergy and a group of parishioners, it has collections and volunteer programs to help many philanthropic causes, and it provides its parishioners with answers to their questions as well as a sense of camaraderie during festivals and every day life and during rituals. There are no suicidal aspects to this place. There is no subjugation. There are no insults designed to demean the members in order to "rope them in" and then "keep them in their place." The group leaders certainly aren't making any kind of a profit by this work... it's all a labor of love and dedication. How is this any different from what the Catholic Church down on the Lynn Commons does or the Baptist Church in Wyoma Square or the Jewish Temple on Walnut Street?

[Morgandria]

My answer: The Nisut. Your examples of the Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, and the Jewish temple ARE different, simply because of the fact that their leaders, the heads of their organizations are in no way claiming to have a god-as-person in charge. The Catholic priest is not saying he is Jesus Christ or God, nor is the Pope. The Baptist minister isn't either, and neither would the synod or council he answers to. The rabbi of an average congregation isn't saying he's Yahweh, or the Messiah, or anything like that.

The Nisut, by contrast, is claming to have recieved the Kingly Ka, and by extention to be like the other pharoahs were - not quite gods, but not quite human either. I can quite easily see that being misconstrued by people the same way people think Catholics worship Mary, or other such ideas. There's a lot of room for people to be confused, misinformed, and outright ignorant about it, esp. given the religious climate that most North Americans have be surrounded with all their lives.

[Erincelt]

I think part of the "excuse" for the Nisut comes from the many many times she (and note the lower-case 's') has said herself (and allow me to paraphrase), "Please do not worship me! Please do not put me on a par with the great Names!" She is quite adament about us not forming a cult of personality around her. It is clear that she is there to bond us as a community first and foremost, and to serve the symbolic role as the living "door" between the Seen and Unseen, to borrow her favorite metaphor.

And I did mean cult as in the sense Nefer said.. the first couple definitions, and somewhat the last. I think KO/HoN fits definition 5 in that we are devoted to a movement. It is a reconstructionist faith, so there is inherently a movement involved: that of rebuilding the ancient practice (with certain unavoidable liberties, in those cases where we modern folk simply don't know the ancient way of something, and the like).

[Ahautenites]

I think there needs to be more a in-depth look at exactly *what* the Kingly Ka IS and what It is NOT and how we are supposed to view It when It is vested in a person. For all that I've seen It tossed about, all I know about It is that It's the divine part of the leadership position. But what IS It? It never occurred to me to look at It too closely. It was just something that I pooh-poohed the first time around because I really didn't like the idea of anyone wiser/closer to Netjer than me giving me guidance. Now, I just ignore It, mostly because It doesn't affect me one way or another. I give Hemet respect because I feel She has done enough and learned enough to be worthy of a capital letter, a phraise of praise (the AUS part) and a full henu.

The full henu and the ordinary henu both mean to me the same thing that "Namasté" means to other people. I'm honoring the divine in Hemet and in every other person of my faith or similar ones who have any idea what a henu means.

[Ahautenites]

Morgandria, thanks for answering. :) But what about Dogmatic Law? ("Whatever you hold true on earth, I'll hold true in Heaven.") Isn't that a way of an "ordinary" person having divine sway over people?

[Morgandria]

Well yes, and no. If you believe that your spiritual leader is utterly infallible, that their word is the absolute truth and cannot be disputed because it is the spirit of your God(s) working and speaking through them, then I suppose that, yes - that "ordinary" person has sway. However, I think it is the naive that believe that their religious leaders are infallible; I think most of us on the planet are sharply aware that they are, like us, human and thus subject to the baser nature of our species. Total faith in spiritual leaders is becoming rare; I suppose we are well into being jaded about faith as a whole.

Your Nisut, I am sure, is a very dedicated and faithful woman who has worked hard at building a very intense and meaningful faith group. As to whether or not she is actually anymore touched by the Mysteries of the Gods than any other pagan group leader I couldn't say.

As to your musings on the kingly Ka - I agree. I would like to know more about what it is supposed to invest an individual with.

I also further ponder about what will happen when the Nisut joins the Gods in the afterlife (hopefully no time soon). Will it become apparent that someone else will have the Ka? Will you seek out the recipient of the Ka, like the Buddists search for Lamas who have reincarnated? Will She name a successor, instead of this process? Or will all her work fall apart as multiple people claim to have recieved the kingly Ka?

I would like to know more about this.
-M.

[Erincelt]

There have been a few discussions on the Kingly Ka before, but alas I haven't been in enough of them to make any good description. :) I'll have to start reading logs now... I do recall it being described once as an entity in its own right, that has shared experiences with every Nisut, and carries those amassed experiences on to the next Nisut. Its a sort of advisor to be consulted, and a spiritual essence that makes demands on the Nisut (as that living "door" I mentioned earlier), and apparently can take over if it sees the need to. But again I'm not perfectly conversent on the Kingly Ka either...

As to what happens when Hemet (AUS) passes to Ament, that actually came up in the "Ask the Nisut (AUS)" board recently. The answer, was that the conditions of her successor are already known to her and to certain of the upper priesthood. They are keeping it private so that when that person is born, they don't have to grow up dealing with everyone's expectations of them. In the unfortunate event of her premature death, her legal Will expressly hands everything over to (I believe) Rev. Craig Schaefer, to steward the House until the next Nisut is manifest.

And pardon me, as I've only just woken up. :D

[Morgandria]

You're pardoned. :) Thanks for sharing.

[Ahautenites]

**nods** I don't believe Tamara the person is infallible. She's human, like any of us. There is evidently overlap on occasion when there is a blending of personalities between her and the Kingly Ka, but they are usually both completely separate, until a joining is necessary.

There is something else that makes this religion different from others. It's something called Saq, which I mentioned earlier as something I'm very eager to witness. For those of you who have not been part of the lessons and have no idea what it is, it means Ritual Appearance. When it is the high holy day of some Names, something called the Saq is held where a designated vessel (someone other than Hemet) who has been specially trained for the purpose, is ritually possessed by the Name in question. So... my reason for bringing that up is to show that not just Hemet is used as the body and voice of Netjer. (Now do you see why I was so fascinated by it and why ErinCelt was so disappointed about missing the last one? The skeptic *and* the mystic in me finds this absolutely fascinating.)

There is a thread that touches on the Kingly Ka on the private side of the Kemet.org boards, but I don't know if it's right to post it anywhere. I'd like to share it, but I think it's on a private board for a reason and I don't want to scoop and post anything I'm not supposed to. That would be a breach of trust.

What I *can* say is that she's only been vested with It for 8 years and she's still getting to know it herself. She did try to liken it to the I and We usages that Queen Elizabeth would use. When she's not on the throne or acting in an official capacity, the Queen is an "I." But when she's doing something official, she uses the royal plurality.

I'm going to do a bit of research in the next few days to see what I can come up with as to what the Kingly Ka is.

Another thing the thread says is that the Ka belongs to Heru Anku, or Heru Of The Living. So that will be something else I want to go look up.

[Morgandria]

I've been to several invocation rituals with various groups, one for Hathor last September. It is posetively joyful and hair-raising to witness a God/dess descend into a waiting vessel.

[Ahautenites]

**laughs, then claps hand over mouth** Sorry. That wasn't appropriate. I'm sure the Hathor ritual was beautiful. It's just that it made me think of what Set is apparently like in Saq. "Surly" is the nicest thing people have been able to say about Him. Downright frightening is another.

[Morgandria]

*nods* I can imagine! I've seen other deities "drawn down" into vessels like that before, too, and some of them were...interesting.

[Ahautenites]

From what I hear, too, in Saq, the deity's exit from the host is very abrupt and unpleasant because human bodies were not designed to hold Something of such an enormous capacity.

I still really want to witness at least one, though, just so I can judge the validity with my own eyes and ears. (It's one of the things that will lead to my eventual staying or leaving Kemetic Orthodoxy.)

[Ahautenites]

Ugh. I need to leave this cube now. I seem to be here later and later every night.

[Morgandria]

Yes. When the deity leaves, it usually leaves the priestess (at least that I've seen) exhausted, confused, very disoriented. It's sort of like watching someone strip off a human body like it's a piece of clothing - one minute they're fine, the next minute they're crumpling to the floor like a broken puppet.

[Ahautenites]

I'll bet. Hope they have lots of cushions around, or else assistants there to help them break their fall when they crumple like that.

Okay... I'm still looking for information on "Kingly Ka" and Google doesn't have a whole lot to say on the matter. But I did find this interesting link (http://demipagan.freeyellow.com/Netjer/Netjer-review.html). What are your opinions on it? From what I've read on the Kemet.og boards (and I have read *everything* that seems to be there, on the private as well as the public boards and archives), and I don't see this "totalitarian" behavior at all. What also bothers me is the way these Free Yellow people say that Netjer is the supposed name of God Almighty, and that no one ever gets any messages from God, at least not for a couple thousand years or so.

[Morgandria]

I've read through that link before. I don't think much of it. Skepticism is one thing, but I think that that review crosses the line from skepticism into bitter disbelief.

[ObsidianShenKa]

Meh.

[indigo rain]

i want to learn as much as i can about the kemetic religion, but i'm not sure about this kemetic orthodoxy thing. i've been trying to find other sources for info about ancient egyptian ritual, magic, the gods, holidays, etc... and i'm not finding too much. anybody have any suggestions, or would you guys suggest the beginners class to me, even if i'm not sure i want to join?

[Ahautenites]

Go to the Links section here on MW. There are a lot of links there in the Egyptian Paths section. (I know because I put them there. ;) )

[Erincelt]

Why Ses my dear, was that a shameless plug? ;)

indigo :: Just because you brought it up first, I'd like to mention that taking the HoN Beginners' Course does not mean making any commitment to the House whatsoever. Plenty of people take it and leave, or even do like me (so far) and end up perpetual Remetj of the House rather than Shemsu. Plus... its free. C'mon, you can't beat free. Well okay, sometimes you can.

You might also check the bookstore (or Amazon). Yeah there are a lot of books by people convinced Atlanteans built the pyramids (down, Cayce, down!), but there are some pretty decent resources out there too. There are a couple of nice books by Rosemark Clark, but you'll find mixed reviews on them. (Although I liked them... but my taste is odd.)

http://www.elfonlyinn.net/d/20020919.html

[Erincelt]

Meh. **takes the bait**
"Meh"?

[ObsidianShenKa]

No.

[Ahautenites]

Yes, BirdDog, you know.... .Meh. The non-commital response of those that wish to say they responded, but don't wish to actually take the time and energy to formulate a complete, thoughtful sentence. My younger brother does that a lot. Drives me batty when he does it, too.

[ObsidianShenKa]

Meh.

[Ahautenites]

:blech:

:fishsmack

:geez:

[Erincelt]

Nya.

[Ahautenites]

**looks from one man-child to the other** Must be a guy-thing. I need more syllables than that.

[ObsidianShenKa]

Oogah boogah.

[Ahautenites]

Oogah boogah.
**snerks** Much better. Thanks.

[indigo rain]

indigo :: Just because you brought it up first, I'd like to mention that taking the HoN Beginners' Course does not mean making any commitment to the House whatsoever. Plenty of people take it and leave, or even do like me (so far) and end up perpetual Remetj of the House rather than Shemsu. Plus... its free. C'mon, you can't beat free. Well okay, sometimes you can.

You might also check the bookstore (or Amazon). Yeah there are a lot of books by people convinced Atlanteans built the pyramids (down, Cayce, down!), but there are some pretty decent resources out there too. There are a couple of nice books by Rosemark Clark, but you'll find mixed reviews on them. (Although I liked them... but my taste is odd.)
i've got rosemary clark's the sacred tradition in ancient egypt and i absolutely love it, but i'm looking more along the lines for translations of egyptian rituals, poetry, spells, and beliefs, such as more information about the ka, the ba, etc... stuff i haven't found a lot of. don't get me wrong... i don't want to try to do some ancient egyptian rite word for word, i just would like to be able to read some and adapt them? if that makes sense? and i'd like a fairly accurate (i realize completely accurate is probably impossible) calendar of the major festivals they celebrated. so any recommendations? there's a lot of books at the bookstore, i know, but i hate to go and buy something without hearing people's opinions first, that's been a good way of wasting money in the past.

[~Anamorata~]

How'd I miss this wonderful thread??!! I'm not new to it, but I am rusty in some aspects...still learning and growing...and, it doesn't hurt to do so!! :hahugh:

[Ahautenites]

That's okay. We forgive you for not seeing us in such a big place. But don't ever let it happen again, buster, or else it's fifty lashes with a wet noodle for you. :p

[argento_occhi]

i've only recently begun hanging around the HoN boards again. For soem reason, i needed some time out from there so i stopped coming. But, i'm back there now and relearning everything, i suppose. Getting used to everyone who's there again. While i may not be ready for the beginner's class, and hold some caution about KO, i hold nothing against them. I actually think that what they're doing is rather brave. i have a lot of respect for them. I like the discussion too. It's nice to be around all these people who share such a love of the Names and such other things. Right now, im on a rather eclectic path. I've actually only committed my beliefs to paper about three months ago, the first time i've done that. We'll see where i end up in the future.

bright blessings,
argent

[Morgandria]

Same here, argent. I read a lot, hung out for a while on the boards, and drew my own conclusions, While the HoN isn't for me, I do think that it's perfectly alright for other people.

-M.

[Ahautenites]

I haven't been hanging out on their boards as much as I should, lately. I think my main reason is that I don't know those people as well as I know people on MW, and the set up of those boards really doesn't allow people to just be goofy together as often as I would like. There is a community on HoN, but it's far more academic and pious than the rowdiness around the MW boards. I mean, there *is* some silliness on HoN, but usually it only happens when a thread gets hijacked. I really haven't found a niche over there. The people don't wear their hearts on their sleeves as much as we do here on MW. If there were a Just Talk forum over there, or even a kind of Tavern thread, I'd be able to relax a bit more and get to know those people better.

[argento_occhi]

i know what you mean. i do get that not poius but polite sense about the boards there. It's not unfriendly, it just takes a while to get to know people. That academic atmosphere -- that kinda intimidates me a bit cos i feel like i don't know as much as them. I don't mind being there, it just takes a while for me to get settled. I post when i have somehting to say or add to.

bright blessings,
argent

[Erincelt]

Just give me time to work, Nefer... Me and a small underground network are injecting subtle Erisian counter-currents into the HoN boards. Given half a year or so more, it should be nearly up to MSR (MW Standard Rowdiness). Hail Eris! Bane Used Car Salesmen -- who don't like hail! ;)

[Ahautenites]

Hail Eris! She must get along very well with Setekh at the Pan-Global Deity Conventions.

[Tarbh Nathroch]

I feel the same way over at the HoN boards. I really like reading there but have rarely posted. When I do it’s usually just a question. I don’t tend to reply to current threads, I feel like I have nothing to contribute to the discussions there. Most are taking place way over my head. I need to do a lot more reading and practicing to be an equal there.

[TaysatWesir]

**looks around the thread admiringly** Nice decor. :) **grabs a strawberry daiquiri malt beverage (because I finally chose a flavor and I hate regular beer and ale)** I agree about liking, yet being wary of, the organized part of the religion. It scared me away for a year or so before I finally decided to take the class again this time around. I'd been observing Hemet for a year before taking the class the first time, and then I observed her for a year after I took the class the first time. I'm just so leary of entrusting my spiritual tutelage to someone else. I feel really glad that they have the new Ask The Nisut (AUS) forum. I don't feel right about posting there, though. I think anything I want to know would be better going through the hierarchy first, and then if they said it was okay, *then* I would pose my question to Her in that forum.

**reads the post about the rivalry and smiles gently** It's a very touchy matter that both sides would like to leave in the past, though I know there are *some* references to it in some older HoN threads. You may also find some mentions of it in the archived threads on Beliefnet's Kemetic forum, too. We have MW members who are affiliated with HoN and members who are affiliated with Per Ankh, so just be sure to tread carefully so as not to insult anyone on either side of the issue. Both approaches to Kemetic practice are valid for their practitioners and are worthy of respect.

From what I gather, Per Ankh's chief priest was a student of Hemet and HoN several years ago. But the bottom line is that there was a difference of opinion between them and so that student left and founded Per Ankh on the belief that there doesn't need to be a Nisut in order for one to be Kemetic. That's the long and short of it, from what I've read. But as I said, both approaches are valid for their practitioners, and that shouldn't hinder any inter-faith dialogue that occurs here or elsewhere.

I have friends from both houses. I read the posts at Bnet just to touch up my knowledge. The subject of rivalry between kemetic houses does not concern me. :geez: BTW I am interested in kemetic orthodoxy and suggested reading sources.

[Ahautenites]

HoN's discussion boards would be the place for total HoN saturation and intellectual overload. :) Hemet had written a book, too, that is available on Amazon, but I'm holding off for Her to finish Her next book, instead, to see if that one gets better reviews (and has more substance).

[TaysatWesir]

Thank you! BTW I like your avatar sea horse its beautiful. :thumbsup:

[Ahautenites]

**Grins** Thanks. I love yours, too. It captures the essense of Him quite well.

[Erincelt]

Speaking of books, a recent publication entitled Religion Online: Finding Faith On The Internet actually devotes its entire 14th chapter to the House of Netjer. It looks like a generally good read anyhow.

Amazon.com link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415970229/qid=1094062280/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-4047425-2520942?v=glance&s=books

[Ahautenites]

It does look like an interesting read. It's just a bit too general for my taste. :)

[Khuinaset]

figured with the recent resurrection of the Egyptian Wicca thread this one could do well to be resurrected too :bigblue:

I've been doing a lot of reading on KO lately, and I must say it looks a lot less dogmatic/strict than I had an impression of it being. When's the next beginner's class start? And what's the title of the book the Nisut has written? And Her new one coming out? I emailed Her and was told that the essay on Nebt-Het I asked about would be in it so I'm looking forward to that :D

[Ahautenites]

Next class is about three months away. :) (And do you really think I could be part of something that was truly that rigid? Me? Empress of the Unorthodox? ;) ) In the meantime, there's plenty of reading on public boards for you to digest. I don't know the answers to the rest of your questions on Her books, though.

[wedjbai]

Hotep

I heard about this place from Nefersesemet, so I decided to come have a look ;)

I had a lot of misgivings before I joined the HoN. Words like "orthodoxy" and "King" out me right off. It was weird, though, because at the time everything seemed to be pointing to the House. So I decided to look into it a bit more, and I learned that my problem stemmed from my misunderstandings of the words.

I think being skeptical of any group/path/faith is good and healthy.

Right now there are two books out that Hemet has written:

The Neteru of Kemet (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573531057/qid=1100747407/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1234591-9336767?v=glance&s=books), which is out-of-date (accoring to the Nisut)

And Translations for Kemetic Orthodox Vol. 1: the 42 Purifications (http://kemetschool.org/pubs/detail.php?id=7). There is also a forthcoming Kemetic Orthodoxy prayer book.

senebty! wedjbai

[instinct]

figured with the recent resurrection of the Egyptian Wicca thread this one could do well to be resurrected too :bigblue:

I've been doing a lot of reading on KO lately, and I must say it looks a lot less dogmatic/strict than I had an impression of it being. When's the next beginner's class start? And what's the title of the book the Nisut has written? And Her new one coming out? I emailed Her and was told that the essay on Nebt-Het I asked about would be in it so I'm looking forward to that :D

Em hotep :)

As NeferSesemet said, the next beginner's class is a good 3 or 4 months away. I'm in the current one and it only started this week.

As for strict and dogmatic... :T
The people are all just great. Warm and kind, as is the Nisut (AUS). From what I know (and I have been doing some research) she's a wonderful person with nothing but good intentions and a great sense of humor. She also collects stamps. I think of her as a friend and teacher. I don't look at the Kingly Ka as being a reason to make Hemet worthy of worship, but more a reason to make her worthy of love and respect. Afterall, she has so much to do and sacrifices so much in the interest of what Netjer and todays kemetic people want. kudos to her :D

Senebty!

Shan

[Ahautenites]

Hotep, Wedjbai! **smiles and waves**

Welcome to the nuthouse. Feel free to stop by the Lion & Unicorn Tavern, too. (It's a lot like a much more active version of The Blue Lotus Tavern).

[Khuinaset]

Hotep

I heard about this place from Nefersesemet, so I decided to come have a look ;)

I had a lot of misgivings before I joined the HoN. Words like "orthodoxy" and "King" out me right off. It was weird, though, because at the time everything seemed to be pointing to the House. So I decided to look into it a bit more, and I learned that my problem stemmed from my misunderstandings of the words.

I think being skeptical of any group/path/faith is good and healthy.

Right now there are two books out that Hemet has written:

The Neteru of Kemet (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573531057/qid=1100747407/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1234591-9336767?v=glance&s=books), which is out-of-date (accoring to the Nisut)

And Translations for Kemetic Orthodox Vol. 1: the 42 Purifications (http://kemetschool.org/pubs/detail.php?id=7). There is also a forthcoming Kemetic Orthodoxy prayer book.

senebty! wedjbai

Welcome to the boards! :) Thanks for the links!

Yeah, it looks like my initial misgivings were due a lot more to my misconceptions of the words, than the actual meanings. Like I said, I also thought it was a lot more strict - I never imagined that there was a level of membership where you could keep practicing what faith you were beforehand and still be KO. Apparently there's even a Christian minister in there somewhere :lol:

As for strict and dogmatic... :T
The people are all just great. Warm and kind, as is the Nisut (AUS). From what I know (and I have been doing some research) she's a wonderful person with nothing but good intentions and a great sense of humor. She also collects stamps. I think of her as a friend and teacher. I don't look at the Kingly Ka as being a reason to make Hemet worthy of worship, but more a reason to make her worthy of love and respect. Afterall, she has so much to do and sacrifices so much in the interest of what Netjer and todays kemetic people want. kudos to her :D

Senebty!

Shan

There was also that I did think that the Nisut was meant to be worshipped instead of being regarded as a leader/teacher (which is the correct way, right? want to make sure I'm getting things right now :twitch: :p ). Needless to say that put me off quite a bit ;)

[wedjbai]

Hotep Khuinaset

There was also that I did think that the Nisut was meant to be worshipped instead of being regarded as a leader/teacher (which is the correct way, right? want to make sure I'm getting things right now ). Needless to say that put me off quite a bit

I thought that way too. Tamara Sidua is a woman, a human being like all of us. She is seen as a teacher and a leader for the HoN. The Kingly Ka, the part that makes her the Nisut, is divine because it comes from Netjer. So, while some members have a part of their shrine or a separate shrine to the Kingly Ka, it isn't meant to worship Tamara - it's meant to honour the power that makes kings, like a divine energy. (And this is not a requirement - my personal shrine is only for my Mother at this time, though I will be adding my Beloveds at a later date.)

If you ask the Nisut if you should worship Her, of if worshipping Her is part of the religion, She'd answer No!

There's nothing wrong with taking lots of time and doings lots of investigation before making a commitment to a group. I think the best way to investigate the HoN is through the beginner's class. It really explains the function of the Nisut and the priesthood, the way we worship, and our view of the world.

Anyways, I'm happy to meet all of you! Looking foward to more conversation :)

senebty, wedjbai

[instinct]

Em hotep wedjbai! :D

[instinct]

oh no.. I broke the thread :sadman:

Would anyone like some chocolate cake and/or muffins? :D

[Ahautenites]

**grins** Silly, Kiwi. Not broken, just quiet. **helps herself to chocolate cake and a pistachio muffin**

Nice av, btw. :thumbsup:

[Darakash]

Darn it! I didn't see this thread when i was looking for a place to posst my question about the Sons of Horus-Hapy! If y'all haven't seen it, could you take a look and maybe give me some input? It is listed in the Egyptian/Egyptian Wicca thread...duh!

Senebty, dK

[Ahautenites]

I did see that question, but I didn't have any input on it. Sorry. :) I'm sure someone else will, though.

(Set seems to go out of His way to make sure that I couldn't read something about Heru even if I wanted to. He'll make sure I'm interrupted or that I can access a site or something silly like that. Plus, I haven't ever had much inclination to study Heru or His divine children.)

[instinct]

**grins** Silly, Kiwi. Not broken, just quiet. **helps herself to chocolate cake and a pistachio muffin**

Nice av, btw. :thumbsup:

Thanks :D I got tired of spongebob (or, Yinepu got tired of spongebob.. eitherway, lol.)

I have... pistachio muffins!? and I didn't know? :foh:
aw man. I hope that wasn't the last one!

[Khuinaset]

LOL...instinct...my brother just wandered in here(he's nine), caught me scrolling around the screen, demanded I stop and let me see your avi... "oooh awesome is that a jackal?!" "yep" "haha I knew it" and he walked back out :p

Okay, here's a question for you guys, what's the HoN take on witchcraft/spells? Any particular magickal system or anything? something I've been curious about but I was a bit too shy to ask on their board...

[instinct]

LOL...instinct...my brother just wandered in here(he's nine), caught me scrolling around the screen, demanded I stop and let me see your avi... "oooh awesome is that a jackal?!" "yep" "haha I knew it" and he walked back out :p

Okay, here's a question for you guys, what's the HoN take on witchcraft/spells? Any particular magickal system or anything? something I've been curious about but I was a bit too shy to ask on their board...

It's not just a jackal.. it's a winking jackal! :bigblue: Glad my avatar is appreciated

As for the question.. weeelll.. *thinks* I don't really know. I've only encountered a question regarding circle casting and the response to that was something like.. "we generally don't need a circle to protect us as we believe Netjer is always there." or some such. But it was also said that whatever you feel comfortable doing is fine :)
Actually, now I think about it I'd imagine the view on witchcraft and spells would be the same as views on religions other than KO.. that it's fine but if it isn't KO it maybe shouldn't be mixed? Some of the remetj[insert plural] in the House follow 2 or more paths at the same time and are quite happy (they just keep the 2 separate I think). These people are treated as being just as much part of KO as anyone else.

I love the people in the HoN, including Hemet and the priesthood. They're all so warm and accepting :)
You shouldn't feel nervous about asking something like that. They're not the sort to judge.
There're atleast 2 wiccan/wiccan background people in the current beginners' class so maybe your question will come up and I can relay the answer :) (I could even ask for you if you want, lol)

I'd recommend taking the beginners course (You've got another 3 months to decide! lol). It's a good way to learn about the faith and get your questions answered, and if afterwards you decide you don't want to make any kind of commitment to the faith, that's fine too :)

I'll be surprised if that made any kind of sense :D

[Kheti]

I finally signed up for the Class,maybe I will get in.

[instinct]

Great :D I'm sure you'll be accepted.

I'm in the current beginner's class. Apparently we've got another 4 or 5 weeks to go.

[Ahautenites]

My take on magic and KO is that it's called heka (pronounced heh-KAH). Mostly, it seems to be a more stylized version of prayer with a bit of ritualistic magic thrown in. But for my part, I prefer to be a bit more random than that. I go with whatever I think will work in that instant. I don't plan it out and write a script for it or anything. I usually do my spellwork at the altar... unless I have my period. I'm still not sure what I think about the taboo of women with their period going near the altar (it apparently can attract evil or negative influences and/or beings, plus it's considered offensive to Netjer), but out of respect for the religion, I don't do anything spiritual or magical at the altar when I've got it.

[Darakash]

I usually do my spellwork at the altar... unless I have my period. I'm still not sure what I think about the taboo of women with their period going near the altar (it apparently can attract evil or negative influences and/or beings, plus it's considered offensive to Netjer), but out of respect for the religion, I don't do anything spiritual or magical at the altar when I've got it.

EEEK! Um, I didn't know any thing about this; and in fact, my Matron (Sekhmet) is heavily related in some things I have read to menstrual blood, etc. Can you give me some info on references to this being offensive??? I am not a new Pagan, but a fairly new Kemetic in terms of practices and don't particularly want to offend any Netjer. Although, ya know....it just occurred to me that when I am menstruating, i have very little desire to work at my altar...hmmmm, interesting.
DK

[Ahautenites]

Here's the thread with the most information on it: http://www.netjer.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=89948&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

But I've read it elsewhere, too. Including in the class lessons. They stress that all open wounds and/or bleeding are considered impure and that, while Netjer understands that things do happen, it's best to wait until bleeding stops before one goes before the altar.

[Tarbh Nathroch]

I had taken the thought that only a few of the Netjer found blood offensive. I had to monitor and check with the priests at the HON to see which saq-chats I could attend while my shark bite was fresh. But these two things could be different, the menstrual cycle and open wounds.

As I’m sure I’ll find out when I read Nef’s link, after I post naturally. I don’t want to come off as informed. : )

[Erincelt]

I don’t want to come off as informed. Tarbh old friend, I'm going to assume you meant un-informed, yes? ;) Anail nathrock uthvass bethudd dochiel dienve. Anyhow, my two cents worth on the KO-vs-spellcraft issue: from day one I've been taught by the House that they really present two religions as one, the State Religion of Kemet, and a personal religion.

In the State Religion there are certain practices -- called heka as Nefer said -- which are the forms of magic, such as "Sa", which is the making of a home -- usually in the form of jewelry -- for a Netjeri ("spirit", compare to Japanese "kami") to reside in, occasionally offering its assistance.

In the personal religion............ its personal. :) Do what you like. Personally I happen to practice both Kemetic Orthodoxy and Lycian Wicca, and while I don't directly mix the two, I have found Wepwawet, Khepera, Djehuty, Bast, Yinepu, and company all too willing to be called on occasionally during my Wiccan ceremonies. They seem, for lack of a better word, intrigued by the practice, not offended. Of course, milage may vary with some Names.

(And yes, I did purposely put the Two Jackals on the ends of that list... hehe.)

[Khuinaset]

In the State Religion there are certain practices -- called heka as Nefer said -- which are the forms of magic, such as "Sa", which is the making of a home -- usually in the form of jewelry -- for a Netjeri ("spirit", compare to Japanese "kami") to reside in, occasionally offering its assistance.

That's interesting, I've never heard of that before :)

In the personal religion............ its personal. :) Do what you like. Personally I happen to practice both Kemetic Orthodoxy and Lycian Wicca, and while I don't directly mix the two, I have found Wepwawet, Khepera, Djehuty, Bast, Yinepu, and company all too willing to be called on occasionally during my Wiccan ceremonies. They seem, for lack of a better word, intrigued by the practice, not offended. Of course, milage may vary with some Names.

(And yes, I did purposely put the Two Jackals on the ends of that list... hehe.)

Thanks! that's interesting too :lol: and what's Lycian Wicca?

Oh...and I thought the menstrual blood thing was more due to danger to yourself(the blood leaking your energy...for lack of a better way to phrase it, weakening yourself and allowing a way for not-nice stuff to get through) than impurity. guess I must've got it wrong :hrmm:

[Tarbh Nathroch]

Tarbh old friend, I'm going to assume you meant un-informed, yes? ;)
No typo. I ment informed, since i was making the statment before going to read something that might increase my knowlage.

[Ahautenites]

Anail nathrock uthvass bethudd dochiel dienve.

Hey, hey, hey! This is a family site, mister. You kiss your mother with that mouth?

j/k :p

[Erincelt]

No typo. I ment informed, since i was making the statment before going to read something that might increase my knowlage. You know... that makes sense. Sorry then, my mistake. :)

What is Lycian Wicca? Well... uhm... its... well its... okay, just look at these sites and save me the trouble. I know, I know... its a cop-out. But I'm tired, leave me alone. :D
http://www.lycianwicca.org/
http://www.boniface.us/

[instinct]

EEEK! my Matron (Sekhmet) is heavily related in some things I have read to menstrual blood, etc.
:foh:

You might want to keep your menstruating self away from Sekhmet. I've heard it can provoke Her more violent side.

Also heard that the reason a lot of the Netjeru don't like you doing rituals in shrine when you're bleeding is because the loss of blood is like the loss of life, and it saddens them.

hrmmm

[Kheti]

Question?
Since the Kemetic Calendar is based upon a southern hemispheric view,do those in the northern hemisphere reverse it?I seems kind of stupid to say that its the beggining of the summer months if its 32 degrees or its snowing?

[Ahautenites]

The calendar interpretations vary by Kemetic Sect. The House of Netjer uses the rising of Sopdet over Hemet's residence in Joliet, Illinois as the indicator for when to begin the new year because that was how it was interpreted in ancient times. Wherever Sopdet rose over the Nile at the spot of the King's residence was considered the right time. I'm a bit fuzzy on the actual way of calculating the correct date, though, so someone else will have to give clarification. Or else you could look for it on the House's discussion boards.

[Kheti]

The calendar interpretations vary by Kemetic Sect. The House of Netjer uses the rising of Sopdet over Hemet's residence in Joliet, Illinois as the indicator for when to begin the new year because that was how it was interpreted in ancient times. Wherever Sopdet rose over the Nile at the spot of the King's residence was considered the right time. I'm a bit fuzzy on the actual way of calculating the correct date, though, so someone else will have to give clarification. Or else you could look for it on the House's discussion boards.
You said "The House of Netjer uses the rising of Sopdet over Hemet's residence in Joliet, Illinois as the indicator for when to begin the new year ",but even if that is correct,when is that actually?What month,,date,season,etc.
I never heard that before I have always heard that they began the yr when the innundation(flooding of the nile)occured.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/ankh/calendar1.html

Senebty!

[Ahautenites]

Sopdet's rising at a certain place was the precursor of the flooding of the Nile. I think it's sometime in August that the new year typically begins, but it varies from year to year. Like I said, I'm a bit fuzzy on the whole calendar issue anyway. So, it's quite possible I'm wrong in this particular instance. For me, it's good enough to have Hemet tell me when Wep Ronpet is so it's one less thing I have to worry about myself.

[Kheti]

Sopdet's rising at a certain place was the precursor of the flooding of the Nile. I think it's sometime in August that the new year typically begins, but it varies from year to year. Like I said, I'm a bit fuzzy on the whole calendar issue anyway. So, it's quite possible I'm wrong in this particular instance. For me, it's good enough to have Hemet tell me when Wep Ronpet is so it's one less thing I have to worry about myself.
Okay I see what your saying.

[instinct]

Wep Ronpet is currently around the beginning of August :)
(I really would like to get to Tawy House for it next year!)

[Kheti]

Wep Ronpet is currently around the beginning of August :)
(I really would like to get to Tawy House for it next year!)
Thanks,I think I'll stick with this Kemetic Calendar (http://showcase.netins.net/web/ankh/calendar1.html) until I learn more any way.
Senebty

[instinct]

Em hotep Sahu Imn Ra :)

The calendar you mentioned is one from the site of Kai Imakhu NiankhSekhmet of the House of Netjer. This is what she said about it in a thread on the HoN forums recently:

Every time I try to make changes, or Netjer forbid, to take it down, I get an avalanche! (!!!) of emails from neopagans, grade school teachers et al screaming (!!!) at me for doing so. I personally hate it, but I personally dislike the angry and/or whining letters even more.
It's just for fun, it's by no means correct..
This quote is from this thread here (http://www.netjer.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=qanda&Number=88187&Forum=All_Forums&Words=calender&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=88152&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post88187) (hopefully that link will work. if it doesn't then just go to the HoN forums (http://www.netjer.org/forums/ubbthreads.php) and do a search for 'calendar'. The thread is called "Kemetic Orthodoxy Calendar")

I understand that worthwhile kemetic calendars aren't the easiest things to come by.
Not trying to be a party pooper, but thought I'd share that for the sake of Kai Imakhu Niankh to prevent her pulling all her hair out :D

Best of luck!

[Kheti]

Em hotep Sahu Imn Ra :)

The calendar you mentioned is one from the site of Kai Imakhu NiankhSekhmet of the House of Netjer. This is what she said about it in a thread on the HoN forums recently:


This quote is from this thread here (http://www.netjer.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=qanda&Number=88187&Forum=All_Forums&Words=calender&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=88152&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post88187) (hopefully that link will work. if it doesn't then just go to the HoN forums (http://www.netjer.org/forums/ubbthreads.php) and do a search for 'calendar'. The thread is called "Kemetic Orthodoxy Calendar")

I understand that worthwhile kemetic calendars aren't the easiest things to come by.
Not trying to be a party pooper, but thought I'd share that for the sake of Kai Imakhu Niankh to prevent her pulling all her hair out :D

Best of luck!
Thanks for the Links instinct!

[Darakash]

Hey Ya'll, was just wondering if anyone else would have any interest in a thread within the "paths" forum, discussing and sharing the pronunciations of various Egyptian/Kemetic words...for instance, Netjer...I have heard this word pronounced: neecher, netjair, nedger, netair, and neeter. I personally feel most comfortable with netjair (but light on the "t" sound). Also, I think names of the Netjer, and various phrases would be interesting to hear. So whatchya think?
Dk :hmmmmm:

[Kheti]

Hey Ya'll, was just wondering if anyone else would have any interest in a thread within the "paths" forum, discussing and sharing the pronunciations of various Egyptian/Kemetic words...for instance, Netjer...I have heard this word pronounced: neecher, netjair, nedger, netair, and neeter. I personally feel most comfortable with netjair (but light on the "t" sound). Also, I think names of the Netjer, and various phrases would be interesting to hear. So whatchya think?
Dk :hmmmmm:
Sounds great to me lets do it!

Senebty!

[Khuinaset]

How much does the parent divination cost at HoN again? I totally forgot...was just thinking about that and I thought I'd ask :p

[Ahautenites]

$53. :)

[Erincelt]

To be more specific, its $53 if you are able. I'll openly admit I didn't pay a single dime for mine, but that's because -- as I explained to them -- I'm flat broke and sadly unemployed. (Though that might be rectified soon! *fingers crossed*) They'll get plenty from me to make up for it, though, once I have cashflow. :)

The $53 is really just to cover ceremonial supplies used in the Rite anyhow, its not a fee per se, but a sort of coverage charge. They actually charge a bit more than the cost, so they can easily cover people like myself who aren't able to pay.

[Note: Don't mind me, I'm just feeling a little anal today. :D]

[Ahautenites]

Details, details. :p

[instinct]

Hey Ya'll, was just wondering if anyone else would have any interest in a thread within the "paths" forum, discussing and sharing the pronunciations of various Egyptian/Kemetic words...for instance, Netjer...I have heard this word pronounced: neecher, netjair, nedger, netair, and neeter. I personally feel most comfortable with netjair (but light on the "t" sound). Also, I think names of the Netjer, and various phrases would be interesting to hear. So whatchya think?
Dk :hmmmmm:
Em hotep :)

Personally, I've always said Netjer as neh-cher. The 'tj' is transcribed phonetically. It is usually transcribed from hieroglyphs as an underlined t, which is why you see 'Neter' around fairly frequently. The t is pronounced much like a 'ch' or 'tsh' sound.

Imakhu NeferuHethert's website has a kemetic glossary (http://www.hethert.org/shrine/kemetic_glossary.htm) that includes some pronunciations (as well as hieroglyphs etc.)

It helped me pronounce a few tricky words :T

Hope that helps!

(I'm a wealth of knowledge aren't I? Don't worry.. I'm as shocked as everyone else about this! :huh: )

[Darakash]

Em hotep :)

Imakhu NeferuHethert's website has a kemetic glossary (http://www.hethert.org/shrine/kemetic_glossary.htm) that includes some pronunciations (as well as hieroglyphs etc.)

Thanks! I checked out the link and seems quite helpful! I think I was thinking that there were many possible and accepted pronunciations of many of the words and didn't know if others had found this variance; so I was curious to see which ones others choose to use, ya know? Like I wonder if this link, for instance, has the generally acccepted pronunciations or if there is as much of a range as I was seeing in various places....like this one book I recently read, for beginners that pronounced Netjer Nee cher and Sekem See kum; which seemed wrong to me. Especially Sekem, as I use in in the mantra: Sa Sekem Sahu and the long "e" sound does not really work in my mind for the vibration of the mantra. So I was just curious about other words as well.
DK

[Ahautenites]

**winces** "e" is somewhere between an "eh" sound and an "aaay" sound. "w" is either "wuh" or "oo", depending on usage. Use Spanish vowel pronunciation when in doubt. :)

English:
Aaay
Eee
Eye
Ohh
Yooo

Spanish:
Ah
Eh / Aaay
Eeee
Oh
Oo

[Darakash]

Does anyone have a link to a good list of the 42 Negative Confessions/Principles of Ma'at? I have found afew, but can tell the translations are/have been slanted in a lot of ways(like in one, the first was: I have not SINNED, uhhhh, no.)....is there a good source for Kemetics that you all know about?

Senebty, DK

[Ahautenites]

If you want the KO perspective, look no further. Just click the links and read to your heart's content. :)

http://daily.kemet.org/archives/archive-052004.html (Scroll down until you hit May 12, and then start reading every entry above it, one by one).

http://daily.kemet.org/archives/archive-062004.html (Purification 13 starts at the bottom. Scroll down and read up. :) )

http://daily.kemet.org/archives/archive-072004.html (Purification 34 is near the bottom)

[Darakash]

Thanks! :clapping:

[Erincelt]

For that matter, if you want a KO perspective (which, although my opinion is biased, I will say is a good one) you might consider this little beauty:

http://www.kemetschool.org/pubs/detail.php?id=7

Its $10, but its a hard-copy hold-in-your-hand book, rather than something you've had to print out and staple or bind. :) Been there, done that, I know how it is... Plus, rather than just translating them and leaving it at that, this includes some discussions and meditations. In the end... its well worth $10.

[Shameless plug, shameless plug!]

[Khuinaset]

Does anyone know when those books that the Nisut is writing will come out? I don't know if I'll be able to get parental permission any time soon, but I heard she's writing an intro to KO and then another one (or possibly the same one?) that has info on the various Netjer...that might be a feasible short term alternative to taking the class :D

argh I had something else to ask and totally forgot it.

edit: haha I remembered it! :p thanks for reminding me about the Daily Devotions and Wehem, Ses...and I meant to ask...I don't know if this will come off as me sounding lazy or not, but is it worth reading through all of those from the beginning? I'm contemplating it, but as there's like...5-6 years worth, I want to make sure it's good reading first ;)

[Tarbh Nathroch]

its a hard-copy hold-in-your-hand book, rather than something you've had to print out and staple or bind. :) Been there, done that, I know how it is...
I'm gonna have to write the instructor of my beginners class from 2 years ago for an e-mail of the beginner class nine lessons. I left out the three ring binder I use as a reference/BOS if ya will. My daughter (14months) and one of my dogs had a great time with it. She would pull out the pages and tear them up and the dog spread them through the house and yard. Man I love those two little buggers.

[Tarbh Nathroch]

edit: haha I remembered it! :p thanks for reminding me about the Daily Devotions and Wehem, Ses...and I meant to ask...I don't know if this will come off as me sounding lazy or not, but is it worth going through all the trouble of reading through all of those from the beginning? I'm contemplating it, but as there's like...5-6 years worth, I want to make sure it's good reading first ;)
I think it’s good reading if you have the time.

[Darakash]

Em Hotep all!

Yes, I have another question, big shock! Ok, so, I went a local antique shop and found a this great little Egyptian Painting/drawing and I brought it home and kept putting off hanging it up, cause I didnt know exactly where to hang it, mostly cause i was focused on other things and hadn't researched who was pictured. I knew it was two goddesses, they are holding hands etc. So this morning I am sitting at my desk, doing my daily email read etc. when, the picture literally flies of the shelf and lands in my hands/lap. "Hmmm," I think, "maybe it is time I research this little picture?" LOL :jawdrop:

So anyway, I do a google search for images and find that the lady on the left is Nekhbet and the lady on the right Tefnut. I look them up and find that Tefnut is very closely associated with my Matron (Sekhmet) and also with Wadjet, and with moisture/lack of moisture, etc; and I find that Nekhbet is often Vulture headed goddess associated with childbirth and protecting pharoah....both are associated with the Eye of Ra and Wadjet...but I am wondering if any of you know of any specific myths in which these two are connected? I am getting overloaded trying to find stuff on them together. Also, I am wondering if Tefnut and Wadjet are ever used in a somewhata interchangable manner as some see Sekhmet/Hathor?

Thanks! I feel like I am wading through too much info, and can use a little focus/narrowing! _wth_

[Kheti]

Em Hotep!
No info here about them Darakash,sorry!

I was wondering though if anyone has any info on which Netjer were real popular with the comman people....It seems most of the nejeru were mostly suited for the Nisut and the priestly class.
Senebty!
Kheti

[Khuinaset]

As far as I know, Bes and Taweret were very "household" type deities, I'm sure there were others...the answer might not be needed now, though :lol: (just now saw the question...)

[Romani Vixen]

I'm a little wary about the Nisut. I put in my application for the next class though. It's all far too interesting! :)

I've also been looking at other branches of Kemetic. Not sure yet....

Anywhoo.... ***bump***

[Erincelt]

I was a little iffy about the concept of the Nisut (AUS) at first myself, but let me assure you of something I've come to realize on my own, and later had verified by people who would really know: translating the word "Nisut" as King is not really 100% accurate... In fact, I'd put it closer to about 15% accurate. She is just another member of the faith who has a special role, but that role is not about rights or power, it is about incredable responsibility. As Nisut (AUS) she bears a burden for the sake of all of the House's members. She puts her body (and her sanity) on the line for us daily. Its worth noting that she also quite literally "commands" us not to worship her, although many of us do have a place in our shrines to the Ka Nisw, the essence of the institution of the Nisut and a minor god in its own right.

It all sounds a little crazy I know... but then I never claimed I wasn't crazy. :shhhh: :hehehehe:

[Khuinaset]

I'm a little wary about the Nisut. I put in my application for the next class though. It's all far too interesting! :)

I've also been looking at other branches of Kemetic. Not sure yet....

Anywhoo.... ***bump***

I was definitely a little wary at first too. I still haven't shed all of my wariness, but I'm getting there. During the beginner's class, you have access to a forum where all members of the faith can ask her anything they want, and she'll answer honestly. I have yet to see a post that rings any alarms to me, she seems like a genuinely nice, humble, kind person.

And it seems to me that a lot of people have got the impression that KOers worship her...that's not right either...the easiest comparison to me is that of the Pope or Dalai Lama. I think Dalai Lama is probably more accurate(with the reincarnated essence of the Buddha and whatnot - and sorry if that was a bit off, Buddhism isn't my strong point ;) ).

The beginner's class is really interesting, and the Imakhu are great teachers! :D

[Erincelt]

The Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of Bodhisattva Cenrizig. I believe the currently DL (the 14th) is supposed to be the 37th such incarnation. But your comparison is still very much valid... maybe even moreso, considering. :) There are some humans from ancient Kemet who do get worshipped, such as Imhotep for example. The Nisut is simply not one of them (actually I think there are two or three ancient ones who are considered deified... I'd have to check on that).

[Nebra]

i want to learn as much as i can about the kemetic religion, but i'm not sure about this kemetic orthodoxy thing. i've been trying to find other sources for info about ancient egyptian ritual, magic, the gods, holidays, etc... and i'm not finding too much. anybody have any suggestions, or would you guys suggest the beginners class to me, even if i'm not sure i want to join?
You might want to check out this class then........here's the link http://www.suite101.com/

[Ishtara]

Time to dig up the Kemetic Orthodoxy thread :)

Here are a few questions for the HoN members:
- In Kemet, there were four different accounts of the creation of the universe, each with a different Name of Netjer as supreme creator. Does the HoN favour one version over the others? If so, which one? If not, are all four cosmogonies fused into a more general account?
- How much emphasis is placed on the triads? Do you serve and worship only one Name, or are the consort and child honoured as well?
- How "advanced" do you think one should be before taking the beginner's course? I am considering signing up, even though I am not sure that KO is for me (but I guess I will never find out if I do not at at least give it a try, right?).
Here is my main concern: I have had a passion for Ancient Egypt for roughly 15 years, so over time I hopefully gained some understanding of the Kemetic worldview, religion and metaphysics. However, I only became aware of my spirituality last year. This is all brand new to me. I am afraid that I may not fully benefit from the course if I take it before I get enough "spiritual experience under my belt"... what do you think? Any input will be much appreciated! :)

[argento_occhi]

Take it and see. You'll never know til you try. Who knows? You might like it.

Argent

[Ahautenites]

Em hotep, Ishtara (and everyone else, too) ~

It's been a while since the last time I took the beginner's course, but I seem to recall that we like all of the creation myths, but I think there is one in particular we like best. I just can't remember which one it is for the life of me.

Not much emphasis is placed on triads, at least not that I've noticed. Divined people serve their Parent(s), rather than triads, but if you are called by any of the Names to serve Them, either singly or as a triad, no one in the House will tell you not to.

You don't have to be "advanced" at all before beginning the beginner's course. I just found it helpful to read through a couple Egyptian history books and then dive into all of the threads open to beginners on the House of Netjer's boards before enrolling in the course. It took me two tries at HoN before I decided to become Shemsu. The first time I took the class, I did walk away in the end. They were as helpful as their site said they would be. If I had wanted them to look up the names of other temples I might like, they would have referred me to some. And even though I had decided at the time not to become a member of the House, they were always extremely helpful in answering my questions about the faith and about the Names.

Caveat: The House of Netjer is a recreationist faith. They try to be true to the original ancient documentation of practices that has been found, but it is also a relatively new faith with new practices that the ancients would not have been familiar with.... such as the Naming ceremony and the Rite of Parent Determination divination. Sekhmet told Hemet that people in ancient Kemet were born Kemetic to parents whom they didn't choose and who got to name them. It was decided that people of the modern faith would need to have Parents that the people didn't choose, and be named by someone else, rather than being allowed to choose their own names. (There's a much more eloquent explanation of this on the House's website, but this explanation suffices here.)

Your trepidation about not having enough spiritual experience under your belt is understandable. But the decision to stay with the House or not is entirely yours. The class is a couple months or so in length, so you will gain experience during that time. But near the end of the class, you'll be asked if you want to stay on as Remetj (which means you're a friend of the House and under no oathbound obligations), become Shemsu (which means you want to be a member of the House, find out who your parents are and receive a name), or go your own separate way with no ill will from them. You can take the class as often as you wish, as long as you are respectful of the teaching, and as long as you submit a class entry request each time you want to take the class. There are even Shemsu who have been with the House for almost a decade who still attend at least one beginner's class each year, just to see what they might have forgotten or what else they might learn from the fresh experience.

Hope that helps. :)

[Khuinaset]

But near the end of the class, you'll be asked if you want to stay on as Remetj (which means you're a friend of the House and under no oathbound obligations), become Shemsu (which means you want to be a member of the House, find out who your parents are and receive a name), or go your own separate way with no ill will from them.

Just wanted to add that you can also be a divined Remetj - which means you get your parentage/beloveds divined, but haven't received a name yet.

[instinct]

Hi Ishtara :)

The view the House seems to have on the creation myths (and indeed all the myths) is that they are just that... myths. one of the Names (I think it might have been Set? when someone asked Him about a myth) said something like "How in the hell would I know. I didn't write it. You people did" :lol:

The myths are there to help us understand otherwise inconceivable things a bit better. They all have their messages and their purpose.. therefore all the creation myths are just as valid (although, like NeferSesemet said, we like some of them more than others :p).

As for the triads.. eh *shrug*. We honor our Parents and Beloveds and Netjer as a whole. There's no real emphasis on the triads as far as I've noticed.
I'm a beloved of Mut.. But I don't know Amun-Ra and Khonsu (Who make up that particular triad) very well at all.

And definitely take the Beginner's Class! The main purpose of it is to give interested people an introduction to the faith with no obligation to join afterwards. There're no prerequisites for the class at all, so don't worry about a lack of spiritual experience.. that sort of thing takes time to cultivate anyway :)

[BeachWitch]

The Temple of Isis Los Angeles (TOILA) is having their 18th Annual Woman Spirit Solstice Fair next Saturday.

Many of