NAM intolerant of Pagans?

[SacredWithin]

I have a friend in which her mom is a New Ager. I thought it was the strangest thing when my friend told me that we couldn't talk about Wicca in front of her mom. I've never heard of such a thing. I mean, I know there is always an exception to the rule and not everyone is respectful of others religions even though their belief system may have it as a rule. She told me that one time her mom found a book about Wicca in her room and said something along the lines of, "I know you and your friends all go through that stage where you worship the devil! You'll grow out of it."

Her mom doesn't even let us hang out past dusk because she thinks we are going to have circles and worship the devil.:meanhead:

I just thought I'd like to share that with you. I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

[Twig]

Being enlightened does not neccessaraly mean being wise. ;)

Ask her mom to come to this site. Good luck

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[FairyMoon]

Being enlightened does not neccessaraly mean being wise. ;)

Ask her mom to come to this site. Good luck

Yes, I agree. Maybe she just glanced at the book and didn't get a full understanding of what it means to be Wiccan. I mean, think of how long it took most of us to get to the point where ( If we were from a different faith ) we felt comfortable with all parts of the transition from one to the other. Plus, I guess New Age doesn't mean Pagan, so there might be a lot of things that she might disagree with. It's okay. You guys will be there if she asks for information or asks questions right? So if she wants to, she will in her own time come to learn that it isn't all "devil worshiping and circles"8O

[Bec_W]

At least she didn't go off the deep end. There are plenty of "open minded" parents out there that would have spat chips if they found a book on wicca :lol:

[FairyMoon]

*shudders*:lookaroun that's true. I would never tell my mom. She would have a cow and probably put me in an institution.

edit to say: This is also the same mom who is all for me wanting to be a healer.:whatmewor

[MorningDove030202]

*shudders*:lookaroun that's true. I would never tell my mom. She would have a cow and probably put me in an institution.

edit to say: This is also the same mom who is all for me wanting to be a healer.:whatmewor
Hey, it's me Dove. (We've been PMing eachother) First, it doesn't need to be dark to have a ritual, LOL. But seriously get a copy of Disney's second Fantasia movie and show her the last animated part, it's the one where your avatar is from, and tell her this is what Wicca is about and she will probably get the picture. I think even open minded people can revert to old mind sets when confronted with something different.

Dove

[Chibi-Fallon]

I saw it a long time ago but, but from what I remember it has nothing to do with Wicca. It’s a tree chick dancing around in the woods with all her furry creature friends isn't it?

[Aine of the Fae]

A lot of those in the "New Age Movement" still hold onto hard-core Christian ideals. They are indoctrinated with a certain moral code, and the devil is a part of that. They might not WANT to believe in a lot of it, but they do. All anyone can do is point of the truth and hope they will listen.

[Phoenix Snowrose]

OMG I have a friend is tyhe same exact situation......wait a sec...maybe it's cause we have the same friend....aye sacred?! :thumbsup: :spinner:

[SacredWithin]

OMG I have a friend is tyhe same exact situation......wait a sec...maybe it's cause we have the same friend....aye sacred?! :spinner:

lol AYE!:thumbsup: :smileroll

[SacredWithin]

A lot of those in the "New Age Movement" still hold onto hard-core Christian ideals. They are indoctrinated with a certain moral code, and the devil is a part of that. They might not WANT to believe in a lot of it, but they do. All anyone can do is point of the truth and hope they will listen.

Well, can you explain some of these hardcore doctrines? It might help me and a few others (I'm sure) understand what you meant.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Well, can you explain some of these hardcore doctrines? It might help me and a few others (I'm sure) understand what you meant.
In my experience, a lot of New Agers are basically Christians, but they believe in stuff like the power of crystals and angels and stuff. Therefore, they tend not to be above the prejudices and misonceptions that many Christians hold towards the pagan community.

[Faerwolf]

How can you say the faery scene at the end of Fantasia 2000 has nothing to do with what Wicca is all about?

[Phoenix Blue]

How can you say the faery scene at the end of Fantasia 2000 has nothing to do with what Wicca is all about?
With a straight face, I would like to think. Even when I was Wiccan, I didn't go out into the woods and dance with a bunch of cute furry creatures!

[Faerwolf]

It's not about the scene its about the underlying statement it is making. It could have been done with rabid dogs and slugs, that irrelevant, look a little deeper, if you want to, before you dismiss a meaning.

[Phoenix Blue]

It's not about the scene its about the underlying statement it is making.
Which is what, exactly? Wicca is a religion - where are the religious elements in that scene? The prayers to God and Goddess, the Drawing Down? It's not there, because there is no Wiccan or Pagan "underlying statement."

Pagans don't own a monopoly on enjoying and revering nature.

[Faerwolf]

I didn't say that the scene fully encompassed every nuance of the Wiccan Religion. I merely stated that the scene heralds hope, helaing, and a deep love of the earth and it inhabitants, all enveloped with a sense of the "magick" that occurs naturally in life, and the magick that occurs through "will". And yes, that does have something to do with Wicca, and a lot of other religions. Why does the faery have to be a version of the practitioner, why can't she be a form of the Goddess and the stag she rides, the God? On the surface its merely an animated segment of a sequel. On the inside it can be anything. I just can't see how you could totaly dismiss it.

[SacredWithin]

In my experience, a lot of New Agers are basically Christians, but they believe in stuff like the power of crystals and angels and stuff. Therefore, they tend not to be above the prejudices and misonceptions that many Christians hold towards the pagan community.

Maybe the story about my friend's mother hit me in the face. But I studied New Age for quite a while. I never noticed the hatred. But then again, I was only apart of one online community (here (http://lightworker.com/messageboards/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=a6cc25a961e5ecfa4fd636839a48bda1)) and they seemed pretty nice. (that was about a year ago).

When I used to consider myself apart of them, I thought they were very nice. But there were certain things simply too religious for me, now that I think about it. Some folks would post daily parables (I guess that's okay) or daily texts. But whenever I spoke with them, we took from various texts and studied them (i.e. Conversations with God, Osho-hindu philosopher, etc.). At that time, I knew New Ager to be spiritual shoppers taking what they felt was necessary for them. I never knew they even thought the devil was a real being (which is why she took me by surprise!)

You mean to tell me all that time, I missed something? I wonder if I am like that now. *stops to think*

I moved away from the New Age about a half year ago and soley became just some random person with an optomistic view in life where everything is a miracle and everything happens because of cause and effect. I've moved so quickly on my spiritual path/journey. I wonder who is helping me? :D

Anyways... about the New Agers...?

[Ben Trismegistus]

You mean to tell me all that time, I missed something? I wonder if I am like that now. *stops to think*

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that prejudice works independently from spirituality. I'm sure there are many New Agers out there who are open-minded to all world religions. But, participating in a particular religion (paganism even) does not necessarily mean that you won't be bigoted and/or prejudiced.

Prejudice is something we must each tackle on an individual basis. You can't say that one group is prejudiced and another isn't.

Make sense?

[SacredWithin]

Make sense?


Yeah. I simply asked that question in a rhetorical manner for me to think about. I think it's something everyone should think about. :)

[MorningDove030202]

You arn't remembering it correctly, go watch it again, and it's the second Disney Fantasia, not the first one. The animation shows what I call Gaia makeing everything green and living, and then also the buring distruction of life I think in the form of a volcano. There is a Stag to represent the masculine. After the distruction, the stag calls forth gaia again and she begins the rebirth of life. It's quite Wiccan.

Dove

[Djiril]

It might just be that she has the wrong information about Wicca. The question is, will she listen to or believe the right information?

Also, is she a Christian New Ager? That could make a difference.

[Pol]

It's not just Christians that believe Wiccans worship the devil.
Basically any american that's not been shown the truth is going to believe as much. Even if they supposedly don't believe Christianity - they still say 'oh my god,' and they still believe that wiccans/pagans worship the devil.
They may even not believe it to be real, but believe that wiccans/pagans are INTENDING on worshiping the devil of Christianity, because that's what they're told.

Hell, look at Merriam-Webster's dictionary. They say a sabbat is an orgy for the Devil. :rollingla

[mothwench]

Well, can you explain some of these hardcore doctrines? It might help me and a few others (I'm sure) understand what you meant.

i'll give it a shot, and tell you about a friend of mine. she was raised as a jehova's witness, but is now a self-proclaimed atheist. however, she confessed to me that the indoctrination of her childhood hasn't let go of her and never will. here's an example she told me about: from what i understand the jehova's witnesses are constantly being told that the world is going to end, and that they should look out for signs of this happening. one of the signs is apparently that a few churches will be set on fire.
so my atheist friend and her boyfriend are trudgeing through indonesia (their idea of a holiday. :whatgives: ) and for some reason (no idea what was going on down there) exactly that happened while they were there and she saw it. it resulted in her having a panic attack that was so bad they had to fly home early.
the way she explained it was, when she saw the burning churches, she "realised" that she had been wrong in taking the atheist's path, and all the fear and doctrine from her childhood came back, smacked her in the face and said: i told you so.
i think this is the same kind of thing christians go through... crap things will happen that will make the spiritual side of their minds go "see? there is a devil after all" while their logical side is saying "no, this is nature".
hey, even i'm not completely free of it. :sadeyes:
dang catholic school upbringing. :smash:
what i'm saying is, it can be quite hard for ex-christians on any path. lot's of them are on the fence even if they don't see themselves that way at all, and believe me, the fence is an uncomfortable place to be.

[DonovanJoseph]

Being enlightened does not neccessaraly mean being wise. ;)

Ask her mom to come to this site. Good luck

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

i agree, it'd be like saying being baptised or confirmed in the christian sense would mean your wise

[Charise]

I use to believe I was 100% christian all the way until last year. But at the same time, I tried to be very open minded and extremely respectful of all other religions. It was actually my daughter(12 at the time), bless her heart, who peaked my interest in paganism. I just thought she was creative and loved faery tales and fantasy. She has written dozens of stories, and now even books on magick and mystical elements and the beauty of it all. I would read them and just smile at how creative she was. Until I later found that she had descovered Wicca (just this year at age 13) and had embraced it. I was completely uneducated in anything really to do with Wicca and or paganism, but I could not condemn or deny her this belief, simply because I could see just how natural it was for her...and how it belonged to her (or how she blonged to it)...maybe how they belonged together...lol

At any rate, she is a beautiful being, with an incredible mind and heart... and that was all the proof I needed in order to accept it, and know in my own heart it was not evil in any way. Now more then anything, I'd like to join her in her journy... but I still love my christianity as well... is it possible for the two to unite?.... was that what has been meant to be all along for us... ~I wonder~....

[Dove]

Ohhh my gawwwd Char …
That was really beautifully said!!
Your daughter’s very lucky to have you in her life.

A mother who is Open Minded enough to Look …
Wise enough to See …
And with a Heart apparently Full of Love!!!

Reading your post made me cry.
(((((((You and your daughter)))))))

[fay]

that was really sweet! *hugs*
there is a thread in this forum on christian wicca if you are interested in reading about it, i havent read it but im sure itll be good. a lot of things on this site are and theyre usually very informative.
blessed be

[Pol]

There are threads about Christianity mixing with pagan religions all over this board (they poof up now and again).
I'm a christian and pagan, as are many more here. :)

[StephanieAine]

Hi Char!

It sounds like you love your daughter very much and are extremely close. I can definitely relate to that <g>.... I have a daughter who just turned nineteen, and she's absolutely the joy of my life, and an amazing gift from God. (She just joined MW, by the way, everyone... her name is IrishDancer here).

Here's a personal opinion re: the question you asked.

I'm a Christian, and I fall into the "very devout" category (as opposed to "Christians who are only Christian because they were raised that way and they're not Jewish" or other Christians). I also fall into the Celtic Christian category, and I find it to be a wonderful way of faith.

I'm of the belief that you can't really combine Christianity with witchcraft or magick (I know that many people here *do* do that, and as much as I respect Aine of the Fae and others who are of that belief, I personally don't see scriptural grounds for it), and as far as mixing Christianity and paganism - well, I don't quite understand why someone would find it necessary to do that. Why? Because even if you have "a closeness with nature" (or however one might describe it), there are other ways to bring that element into your life. And into your spiritual way of being. For me, Celtic Christianity is a great way to do that - because it's so rooted in early Christianity (in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, etc) - and the people in the area were so good at connecting their Christian faith to their cultural traditions (and they were already very aware of the natural world).

If I was in your shoes (this is just my opinion! Don't smack me please!) - I probably wouldn't join her in her religious journey by following the same path. Instead, I'd read about Celtic Christianity and see what you think before you make such a big decision. It could be that you both would find common ground for discussion simply by your learning about Celtic Christian spirituality. You'd still be a "regular Christian," though <g>. (If you're interested, you should get a book by Alexander Carmichael called Carmina Gadelica, and another book by Esther de Waal called The Celtic Way of Prayer. You could also get John O'Donohue's book, Anam Cara... but I think the first two are the most important to give a good general overview of the spirituality as a whole.)

[punxzen]

I'm of the belief that you can't really combine Christianity with witchcraft or magick (I know that many people here *do* do that, and as much as I respect Aine of the Fae and others who are of that belief, I personally don't see scriptural grounds for it), and as far as mixing Christianity and paganism - well, I don't quite understand why someone would find it necessary to do that. Why? Because even if you have "a closeness with nature" (or however one might describe it), there are other ways to bring that element into your life. And into your spiritual way of being. For me, Celtic Christianity is a great way to do that - because it's so rooted in early Christianity (in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, etc) - and the people in the area were so good at connecting their Christian faith to their cultural traditions (and they were already very aware of the natural world).

the reason some of us combine our christianity with elements of paganism, is because (in my case anyway) we are learning to experience our spiritual side from perspectives outside of what the church or bible generally condone :)

[Charise]

Thank you so much Dove, Fay, Pol and StepanieAine!

And StepanieAine, this Celtic Christianity you speak of sounds very interesting. I'll definately do some research on it, thank you so much for suggesting it! :)

Oh, one more thing, I do plan to do a google search, but was wondering if you might have any links you could recommend?

[Charise]

we are learning to experience our spiritual side from perspectives outside of what the church or bible generally condone :)

to add to this just a bit. I have been doing hours upon hours of research and study of the two, and genuinely feel in my own heart that there is a connection between them.. and I do think in some ways, (several actually) they can be harmonious. Where there's a will there's a way..right?

But before I draw any conclusions personally, I do still have a lot to learn... and thus I will continue my journey. :)

[StephanieAine]

Hi!

Yep, there are a few sites I can suggest that you read in addition to the books (by the way, there's NOT a lot of good info online - it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between Celtic Christian sites and sites that combine it with Celtic paganism; also, some sites written by Celtic pagans *about* Celtic Christianity are quite inaccurate... so what I'm giving you is very basic stuff. Then, later after you've read books on the topic and you're browsing the web, you'll be able to more clearly see what's Celtic Orthodox, Celtic Catholic, Christo-pagan, Celtic New Age, or whatever. (As I said, it can get confusing.)

Here's a site which has *some* of the prayers contained in Carmichael's Carmina Gadelica.
http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/corpus/Carmina/ (http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/corpus/Carmina/)

Stuart's Celtic Christianity page (very basic info here)
http://www2.gol.com/users/stuart/celtihs.html (http://www2.gol.com/users/stuart/celtihs.html)

Information from the website for St. Aidan's Trust (gives a good general idea of what Celtic Christians focus on) - there's also a belief statement on the site, and I don't remember right now whether it's specifically Celtic Anglican or whether it's more of a general, non-denominational statement... but will still give you good info overall)
http://www.aidantrust.org/html/way.html (http://www.aidantrust.org/html/way.html)

(And if you end up finding this to be something you want to practice in your own life, keep in touch - I have a book coming out soon, and I can keep you informed.)

[StephanieAine]

Oh - and look at this, too - this is is a nice, simple page on Celtic spirituality (a link from within Stuart's Celtic Christianity page - but I wasn't sure if you'd see the link) -

http://english.glendale.cc.ca.us/christ.html

[Charise]

Very good links, and even some information on the legend of Brigid... which I've started to take some interest in.

I'll keep looking~ Thanks again!

[carmenmaria]

maybe she's intollerant because she's misinformed? obviously she doesnt know pagans dont worship satan. i have a similar situation. my mom is very open to things like astrology, tarot, other people's beliefs. one of my favorite things to do with her is talk about our different spiritual encounters... a thing i know my friends' mothers would not like one bit. but even though she believes in letting others go on the path that's right for them, i know, if i told her what i believe, she wouldn't like me not growing up into the good catholic she always wanted. she went through an agnostic phase when she was my age, and would look at me as stuck in that phase she had

[fay]

i get that sometimes, in fact i think it's what my mum thinks about my involvment in wicca, that it's 'just a phase', like something that i'll grow out of. but i suppose i'm ok in that i highly doubt she expects me to become a devout catholic, my family is of the general wishy washy "we go to church mainly out of habit, yes i suppose we're catholics" type. :nyah:
blessed be

[MorningDove030202]

i get that sometimes, in fact i think it's what my mum thinks about my involvment in wicca, that it's 'just a phase', like something that i'll grow out of. but i suppose i'm ok in that i highly doubt she expects me to become a devout catholic, my family is of the general wishy washy "we go to church mainly out of habit, yes i suppose we're catholics" type. :nyah:
blessed be

That remindes me of the T-Shirt I wanted to create.... A dark shirt with white print that syas, "Wicca is just a phase." with the moon phases in a circle around it....

Dove

[dr_zeus440]

Being a new-ager doesnt necessarily mean being enlightened OR wise, i would tend towards the opposite. Just leave her be, your choice is to do your religious thing, and her choice is to be intolerant of that. Are you intolerant of her right to choose?

[MorningDove030202]

Being a new-ager doesnt necessarily mean being enlightened OR wise, i would tend towards the opposite. Just leave her be, your choice is to do your religious thing, and her choice is to be intolerant of that. Are you intolerant of her right to choose?

What do you do when people choose ignorance? When peple won't look at something and make up their own mind on a topic? For example, on of my son's day care employees was against D&D because some preacher on the radio said it was evil. I told her I could bring in one of my books to show here that the spells wern't real spells, just lists with what they do. She wouldn't look at it herself. She choose ignorance. That is one choice I have a very hard time being tolerant of.

Dove

[LittlePerson]

I had read several Sylvia Brown books. She's a new ager all the way and she stated in one of her books that wicca was a bad thing. Not good to be and it was something about trying to control univeral power or G-d's power or something. And that wiccans would be taking power away from G-d or something like that. It really scared me because the things she was talking about in sense of rebirth and afterlife made so much sense to be I wanted to believe this too. So it's like someone said that they are like christians who have tried to incorporate things like spirit guides, angels, crystals, and so forth into their practices. And the fact that she thought or says she can commune with the "other side" made me want to believe her more. But I've learned to get over it. No one's ever gotten it right yet about telling people how to live their lives.