Harm none, Do what ye will

[Moon Puppy]

Where would you say the line between helping someone and hurting them is? it's hard for me to explain...

I found a spell to let a bully see what they are doing..but it says not to think ill of them while saying it...

oh help, none of that made much sense...do any of you understand what Im trying to say?

[Emy]

Well, this is a difficult question, however, I try to see it this way. Hate is never good, if you hate them it would also bring harm towards yourself. Hate eats you up from within. However, one is sort of allowed to harm others in self defense. So to sort of set the records straight one is allowed to "inflict harm", that is you could call upon karma to set the records straight, or you could ask for energy to give back according to the three times three law. This way you don't make up any punishment, you don't inflict harm directly, you just send back whats been sent to you. You let the energies decide upon what shall be done, you leave it in the hands of the god and goddess.

I don't know what kind of spell you got, however if it makes you feel uncomfortable look for another, simply turning karma is easy to do, and so it is to call upon the three times three law... :) There is more complicated ways to turn karma and to make the law of three work, like using a "bjära or a puke" but I don't recommend that...

Before one does any magick one should always consider the consequenses it is always very hard to make something undone, and sometimes even impossible. Always make sure that you can stand for what you do, don't do anything out of anger, make sure that what you do is something you can live with, even after the anger has left you, even after the sorrow, hate and disappointment is gone.

Blessings

[slvr_phoenix]

Harm none is a difficult concept to follow and tends to often be debatable according to each person's slightly different views on it. Heh heh. So I'd say that following your heart is the most important thing to understanding it. :)

My views tend to be a little ... odd. The way I see it, if someone attacks you, it doesn't make it right to attack back in 'self defense'. Fighting one wrong with another isn't a good solution. If someone were to attack me, I would defend myself, in that I would do my best to keep them from harming me, but I wouldn't strike back. Now, anyone who knows martial arts forms knows that you can redirect a person's energy to that they harm themself without actually harming them yourself. If they throw a punch, twist sideways and grab their arm, pulling them forward so that they fall over from their own momentum. :) That's not harming them, that's defending yourself so that they harm themself. Had they not thrown the punch, they wouldn't have been hurt.

That's how I defend myself and still harm none. If someone attacks me, I put them into a situation where their own negativity harms themself.

But that doesn't really answer your problem with the statement
I found a spell to let a bully see what they are doing..but it says not to think ill of them while saying it...In this case, if you made them aware of the truth, it isn't technically harm. However, casting a spell on someone without their consent is something that I do consider harm. More than that though, casting a spell on someone is sharing your energy with them. So as I always ask others when they consider things like this, do you want to be connected to this person?

And I'd like to add that emotions like hate are fruitless expendatures of energy. This may sound a bit fluff-bunny-esk, but we should always try to love one another, even those who don't act like they deserve it. An action should never be taken out of anger or hatred. It should be taken out of logic, good will, or love. Even if you have the best of intentions, but are angry or hate when you do something, then you are tying in the energy of that anger or hatred into what you do, and it is bound to give mixed results at best, if not totally kill the energies you put into what you were trying to do.

So if you do cast the spell, don't cast it out of anger or hate. Accept that the person has the right to exist. Accept that you do not agree with their actions, but that the person beneath the actions is a life and deserves respect as such. And then do what you you feel you must out of a love for what they person could be, desiring for them to improve and for their actions to improve with them. Do what you do to lift them up because you care about who they are, not out of a desire to make them suffer.

It's a hard path to follow. And even myself am not always practicing that which I preach. (So to speak.) But that is what we should strive for if we really wish to harm none.

[Earth Walker]

The wisest Warrioress is the one who does not need to
fight.

[slvr_phoenix]

Exactly. :)
There are almost always ways to resolve a problem without resorting to harmful actions.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
Exactly. :)
There are almost always ways to resolve a problem without resorting to harmful actions.

Okay, can I kick you in the junk now? ;) :D

[slvr_phoenix]

Eeek. No! I'd dearly regret allowing anyone to do that. :o

[Semele]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
This may sound a bit fluff-bunny-esk, but we should always try to love one another, even those who don't act like they deserve it.

Especially those who don't act like they deserve it, for they are the ones who need it most!!

And just what is wrong with sounding fluffy bunny-esk????

Bunnies are good folks!!

[Myst]

Consider this.

1. You could ask the bully to stop
2. You could ask the bullied person to stay away from the bully
3. You could ask an adult or someone in a position of help for help
4. You could send positive energy to the bullied person that they might continue to feel strong or reason with the bully
5. You could send positive energy to the bully that they can positively interact with others instead of fighting
6. You could try to help the bully talk about why they're bullying, and help them share their anger in different ways
7. You could do a nasty spell on the bully

As a Witch (not a Wiccan) if someone is harassing me and I've tried mundanely to stop them I would normally try to help them think positively and work to better share their opinions. But I'm also not gonna sit there and let someone get beat up. You don't have to think badly or send negative thoughts to stop the bullying, as you can see. It's all up to you and your own beliefs.

[Moon Puppy]

thank you, you've given me alot to think about..

X*X*X

[slvr_phoenix]

He he he he. Semele, I never said being a fluff-bunny was a bad thing... I just figured handling a bully with love sounds kind of silly. Even if it really isn't, it still sounds kind of silly. :)

**SP imagines being mugged and telling the mugger that he loves him.**
**SP can't help but laughing at the thought even if it's a good one.**

Granted, not all people follow the path of fluff. ;) Just I, as a Wiccan, have to many times come up with creative ways of being loving and non-hurtful.

So Moon Puppy, I hope we've been able to help you out. I hope all ends well. :)

[Myst]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
He he he he. Semele, I never said being a fluff-bunny was a bad thing... I just figured handling a bully with love sounds kind of silly. Even if it really isn't, it still sounds kind of silly. :)

**SP imagines being mugged and telling the mugger that he loves him.**
**SP can't help but laughing at the thought even if it's a good one.**

Granted, not all people follow the path of fluff. ;) Just I, as a Wiccan, have to many times come up with creative ways of being loving and non-hurtful.


I think it should be pointed out that we're not talking about a mugger, we're talking about a bully. The difference is that a mugger is threatening your life right now, and no amount of talking to him/her is going to make a difference even if you do ever see them again. You better believe if someone tries to mug me I'm going to kick their butt.

[Tarot Collector]

And lets not forget the second part of the phrase.

Are there two ways to see this "will" ?

"Do what you will" as in 'do what you want as long as you are not harming anyone'

and/or "Do what you will" as in ' Use the power of WILL, harming none in the process'

**Maybe a Crowley expert can shed some light on this thought in reference to his "Love is the law, Love under Will" statement....**
-I may be paraphrasing... I don't have it right in front of me-

-just a thought-
-Jesse-


editing to add something: If the "Bully" or "Attacker" is doing you some physical harm... it seems you are only doing them a favor in deflecting the attack by some other means. This may be as simple as making a complaint to a civil authority. {{and for goodness sake I'm not encouraging the use of any physical force to teach Mr. or Ms. "bully" a lesson}}


Helping someone to learn a Karmic lesson, in my view may not be doing any harm to that person at all. An example: (maybe a stupid one at that, but) When a medical doctor cuts into ones body to treat a malady, the intrusion itself does harm to the body.... but the malignant bit will have been removed/treated.

Now, re-emphasizing the spiritual ... When under attack one should most definitely empower the "WILL".... Perform any protection/cleansing rituals or actions you can find or think of AND BELIEVE YOU ARE NOW PROTECTED/CLEANSED. Adding an affirmation such as So mote it be, or It is done, or something else that has meaning to you.

Oh, and pray often, Amen.