Nordic Religions

[Wulk]

Hello. I got ' Wicca : A Guide of the Solitary Practitioner ' for my birthday and its very good so far. And I've been reading about the goddess and god, and i was wondering if anyone had any links or books they could reccomend for Nordic or norse gods. I'd like to follow in my ancestors footsteps. I come from a germanic\scottish nordic background. And I'd be very intrested to hear and read what some of you might have on this. Thank you! :D

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

There are a lot of great links in the heathenry class you might want to check out.

[Pol]

I posted this in the other Nordic thread (same page, just a bit further down), but:
Besides the generic gods and goddesses, the main legends and stories are mostly violent, and the Norse 'vikings' were often driven by holy war and such.
It's a very violent religion (though the norse weren't really all that violent outside of their warfare, as I understand it) from what I've studied of it so far.

Also, a WARNING: Norse religion is pretty masculine. The women show up as caretakers, wives, and meademaidens. So beware. There are some strong ones, though.

(that disclaimer's kind of sarcastic, i'm in a sour mood :bouncysmi )

[Fairywolf]

Not all of the women were treated like that. The women were respected as much as the men if not more so. I will look for some of my links and post them here. I personally don't think that the Norse religion is masculine. It is a strong religion.

Irminsul (http://www.irminsul.org/)

Asatru Basics (http://www.erichshall.com/asanew/newtotru.htm)

Northvegr (http://www.northvegr.org/main.php)

Some decent links (http://www.wizardrealm.com/norse/links.html)

Our Troth (http://www.thetroth.org/resources/ourtroth/)

Asatru Lore (http://www.asatrulore.org)

Edit to add links. I have more but I have to look for them :viking:

[mothwench]

I posted this in the other Nordic thread (same page, just a bit further down), but:
Besides the generic gods and goddesses, the main legends and stories are mostly violent, and the Norse 'vikings' were often driven by holy war and such.
It's a very violent religion (though the norse weren't really all that violent outside of their warfare, as I understand it) from what I've studied of it so far.

Also, a WARNING: Norse religion is pretty masculine. The women show up as caretakers, wives, and meademaidens. So beware. There are some strong ones, though.

(that disclaimer's kind of sarcastic, i'm in a sour mood :bouncysmi )

errrrmm... this is a stereotype and i daresay what you're writing is bordering on bashing.
however, as it's a very common stereotype, i won't burn your village and sacrifice your young 'uns to my gods. :fpartyhat

[Pol]

How is it bashing? It's a very masculine religion, although there were many goddesses. I've studied norse mythology quite a bit. The bulk of the dieties were male, the females mostly have a serving/wife/daughter relationship to the males. It was a society lead by men, just as most any others were. That's all I said, and it's pretty close to the truth.

[Pol]

Also, how is it a stereotype? What part of what I said was a stereotype/bashing?
I love norse mythology - why would I bash it?

[mothwench]

How is it bashing? It's a very masculine religion, although there were many goddesses. I've studied norse mythology quite a bit. The bulk of the dieties were male, the females mostly have a serving/wife/daughter relationship to the males. It was a society lead by men, just as most any others were. That's all I said, and it's pretty close to the truth.
okay, well, off the top of my head, freyja and skadhi both spring to mind as not having a very serving and bystander-ish personality... and in any case, i really don't want to get into this in this thread, maybe post your opinions in the appropriate threads of the heathenry class. it's a little dead in there due to the teacher gone missing and we could do with a bit of action in that forum. so please, post away.

the reason i said it's bordering on bashing (note: i did not say it is bashing :) ) is this: the reading you have done about norse heathenry so far has led you to a certain opinion. that's fine, and everyone can state their opinion, as long as they say it's their oppinion, and don't state it as fact.
trust me, alot of asatruars, especially vanatruars, would heartily disagree with you.

[Fairywolf]

Here is this site it has a few interesting things on it....

Women in the Nordic religion (http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/feminine.htm)

[Pol]

I didn't say all women had a bystanding role. Even in my sarcastic statement about it being masculine, I added 'There are some strong ones.'

Anyway, it's not important. :)

[mothwench]

okay. i had a think about what you said, and remembered that i had a similar notion when i read the havamal, which is downright sexist in my oppinion, but that is one piece of scripture that can't possibly represent the whole religion.
:)
great link, fairywolf! :yourock:

[DonovanJoseph]

google it...theres bound to be plenty to come up! :p

[Fairywolf]

Not to bring back hostilities.....;) I found this paragraph in a book I was reading earlier and thought I would share it......


"A women of the folk who follows the Ways of Valhalla is always to be highly respected, as she is one who at times can become the presence of a high Goddess of the Golden Lands. Further, she is the link with the past and the future, and when she decides th have her childern, rememberthat any of her offspring may be honored by all humankind, one who will do great deeds that will benifit every living being. Upon becoming a wife she is greatly honored, and in any gathering of family or folk her counsels shall have great weight."

I will have to see where I read it and post it later. I just wrote down the passage and not the author. :bigredblu

[Pol]

I don't feel it was any different for Christianity - still a very masculine religion, and the honour spoken of there revolves mostly around child-bearing.

[Fairywolf]

I don't see it that way *shrug* Everyone interputs things differently. It could also be that I am a woman :D ;)

[FornSidr]

pol is absolutely right. it's NOT stereotypical. just look at the Gods themselves! the most important were Thorr, Odin and Tyr; notice anything? yeah, they're all associated with war. this is a definite reason why Wiccans should avoid the Norse Gods; their history, and their meanings. i think the Celtic pantheon would be better off for whoever started this topic, if he/she chooses to be Wiccan. please tell me why you think Hitler chose to worship (or at least say to, was probably publicity) the Norse Gods. i'll tell you why, because a lot of the Gods were associated with war. even the most peaceful of the Gods are said to battle at Ragnarok. as for the Norse women, while the male was dominant, the way women were treated wasn't any different from the rest of europe, however. women have always been treated under what was deserved throughout history. the women, in the stories, were almost always maidens, even Gerdr. Freyja, Frigg, Skadhi, etc., being exceptions.

for those who STILL deny what i'm saying, please read any saga. Hrafnkel's Saga, a perfect example; Hrafnkel swore to kill anyone who road Freyfaxi, a horse dedicated to Hrafnkel's patron, Freyr. a man named Einar road it, and was killed. the man was a Freysgothi for christ sakes, Freyr hardly has a thing to do with violence! so, as you can see, even though there might've been peaceful (Vanic) Gods, the society, even the ones who followed the Vanir, were VIOLENT. :viking:

[Pol]

I don't see it that way *shrug* Everyone interputs things differently. It could also be that I am a woman :D ;)

Nah, I don't think it has anything to do with being a woman.
I have strange beliefs on what the Bible was really teaching about women. I believe them to be semi-divine, the perfect human specimen, and yet smaller (and mostly more fragile), and that men are meant to protect them. I feel that this is completely taught in the bible, and that only peoples interpretations have polluted it to make it sexist - men have abused the power given to them.
I do not think that the culture then was as dominated by men as some believe - I think they were a merry-making folk, and one cannot make-merry without a woman ;)

Something to keep in mind:
The book of Galations was written to Gauls. They were very european, not the stereotypical middle-eastern lock your women in the closet people thought of as being in the bible. I believe that the bible's true teachings on women were just lost.
Therefor, I see the beliefs of the Nords (what can I say? I play morrowind too much!) as being somewhat the same thing.
Lead by men tanks with fair maidens. Sure, there were strong women, but there were in the Bible as well (they're just tread on by the men and not as popular).

[Pol]

pol is absolutely right. it's NOT stereotypical. just look at the Gods themselves! the most important were Thorr, Odin and Tyr; notice anything? yeah, they're all associated with war. this is a definite reason why Wiccans should avoid the Norse Gods; their history, and their meanings. i think the Celtic pantheon would be better off for whoever started this topic, if he/she chooses to be Wiccan. please tell me why you think Hitler chose to worship (or at least say to, was probably publicity) the Norse Gods. i'll tell you why, because a lot of the Gods were associated with war. even the most peaceful of the Gods are said to battle at Ragnarok. as for the Norse women, while the male was dominant, the way women were treated wasn't any different from the rest of europe, however. women have always been treated under what was deserved throughout history. the women, in the stories, were almost always maidens, even Gerdr. Freyja, Frigg, Skadhi, etc., being exceptions.

for those who STILL deny what i'm saying, please read any saga. Hrafnkel's Saga, a perfect example; Hrafnkel swore to kill anyone who road Freyfaxi, a horse dedicated to Hrafnkel's patron, Freyr. a man named Einar road it, and was killed. the man was a Freysgothi for christ sakes, Freyr hardly has a thing to do with violence! so, as you can see, even though there might've been peaceful (Vanic) Gods, the society, even the ones who followed the Vanir, were VIOLENT. :viking:


Well said.

[Fairywolf]

I never said that it wasn't a violent religion. But I don't agree that it is a masculine religion. I think that it is a STRONG religion with violent tendencies ;) :lol:

And strength has nothing to do with male/female roles. It is completely on the person themselves.

[Pol]

Not to most any culture until recent years. Strength has almost always been related to men, with very few exceptions.
How is Norse mythology not very masculine?
How are there not more Gods in commanding roles than goddesses? How is it not based on masculine warfare and such? I don't recall many sagas of the ladyfolk. I recall a lot of guys who liked their ladies to be veluptious meadmaidens.

[Mjollnir]

pol is absolutely right. it's NOT stereotypical. just look at the Gods themselves! the most important were Thorr, Odin and Tyr; notice anything? yeah, they're all associated with war. this is a definite reason why Wiccans should avoid the Norse Gods; their history, and their meanings. i think the Celtic pantheon would be better off for whoever started this topic, if he/she chooses to be Wiccan. please tell me why you think Hitler chose to worship (or at least say to, was probably publicity) the Norse Gods. i'll tell you why, because a lot of the Gods were associated with war. even the most peaceful of the Gods are said to battle at Ragnarok. as for the Norse women, while the male was dominant, the way women were treated wasn't any different from the rest of europe, however. women have always been treated under what was deserved throughout history. the women, in the stories, were almost always maidens, even Gerdr. Freyja, Frigg, Skadhi, etc., being exceptions.

for those who STILL deny what i'm saying, please read any saga. Hrafnkel's Saga, a perfect example; Hrafnkel swore to kill anyone who road Freyfaxi, a horse dedicated to Hrafnkel's patron, Freyr. a man named Einar road it, and was killed. the man was a Freysgothi for christ sakes, Freyr hardly has a thing to do with violence! so, as you can see, even though there might've been peaceful (Vanic) Gods, the society, even the ones who followed the Vanir, were VIOLENT. :viking:


Lets then look at the violence wreaked by the followers of the desert god and all people that were killed in "his" name. Women in Heithni are very highly regarded and woman played a very important role in Norse mythology. As far as the Norse gods and their followers being violent just look back at my opening comment. ALL the gods and all the slain warriors fought at Ragnarok, it was after all the battle to end all battles. Hitler took something and PERVERTED it, where do you think the swastika came from??? You think they thought that all up by themselves, that symbol has been around for thousands of years.

[mothwench]

pol is absolutely right. it's NOT stereotypical. just look at the Gods themselves! the most important were Thorr, Odin and Tyr; notice anything? yeah, they're all associated with war. this is a definite reason why Wiccans should avoid the Norse Gods; their history, and their meanings. i think the Celtic pantheon would be better off for whoever started this topic, if he/she chooses to be Wiccan. please tell me why you think Hitler chose to worship (or at least say to, was probably publicity) the Norse Gods. i'll tell you why, because a lot of the Gods were associated with war.
oh, fer crying out loud... :rolleyes: no, this was not the reason. it was cause some whacko archeologists gave him the (very wrong) theory of germanic=blond=arian=devine. this gave a romantic edge to his funny ideas about racial hygiene, by which he should have put himself in the gas chamber, just that little remark on the side just so you can see how insane the guy was.
the symbology of the norse religion was perverted to suit his goals. the thing is, most asatruars i know are very aware of this, and it makes me wonder, son of freyr, what your political ideals are if your still under the misconception that hitler's dabblings with runes and other norse symbology was even remotely justified.
and as far as thorr, odin and tyr are concerned... i'm sure he loves you for it, but you're greatly overrating old tyr. who are the three statues at the temple of uppsala? odin, thorr, and freyr. freyr is, btw, (not counting the goddesses of course. ;) ) one of the most represented. i have yet to see a votive figure of tyr.

even the most peaceful of the Gods are said to battle at Ragnarok. as for the Norse women, while the male was dominant, the way women were treated wasn't any different from the rest of europe, however. women have always been treated under what was deserved throughout history.
huh, what? :huh:


the women, in the stories, were almost always maidens, even Gerdr. Freyja, Frigg, Skadhi, etc., being exceptions.
:wtf: how many "exceptions" do you want???


for those who STILL deny what i'm saying, please read any saga. Hrafnkel's Saga, a perfect example; Hrafnkel swore to kill anyone who road Freyfaxi, a horse dedicated to Hrafnkel's patron, Freyr. a man named Einar road it, and was killed. the man was a Freysgothi for christ sakes, Freyr hardly has a thing to do with violence! so, as you can see, even though there might've been peaceful (Vanic) Gods, the society, even the ones who followed the Vanir, were VIOLENT. :viking:
i've read lots of the sagas. i'm now reading more about the historical, anthropological and cultural aspects of the different norse cultures. the thing is, the more people dig down into archeology and history, the more it becomes apparent, that both hitler the brown king midas, as well as wagner were way off with the images they propagated: they were neither blond high-browed über-humans, nor were they horn-helmeted, fur-wearing barbarians with three foot beards. much rather, it turns out they were/are an odd mix of farming settlers from the north and the indo-european nomadic warrior tribes coming in from the east. the ambivalence this creates has never really let them have much say in how other people view them. til this very day they seem to me like farmers that want to be soldiers, or soldiers that want to be farmers.
and they have been having to (and maybe wanting to, sometimes) live up to a stereotype image ever since tacitus wrote germania.

right. i'm way not done with this thread yet, i gotta run cause i have a dentist's appointment. :sick:
:wave:

edited to add: :hehehehe: just a little something that makes me chuckle: the ambivalence is already making itself apparent right here in this thread. :nyah: ;)

[Pol]

They were also pretty short. As I heard, an average of about 4 feet or so.
Of course, american men were only in the 5 foot range in the 1800s, so. Yeah.

[halfwaynowhere]

I come from a norse background. I would say the best way to learn about norse legends, traditions, etc, would be to look for a book about it. There are also many websites out there. It may require a bit of searching, but i'm sure it will help.