Book of Lies Study Group : Chapter 0

[mol]

{Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Eta Omicron-Upsilon-Kappa
Epsilon-Sigma-Tau-Iota Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta
Omicron!} (1)

The Ante Primal Triad which is
NOT-GOD
Nothing is.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is not.

The First Triad which is GOD
I AM.
I utter The Word.
I hear The Word.

The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light. (2)

The Second Triad which is GOD
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.

The Third Triad
Bearing: preparing.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Stability: begetting.

The Tenth Emanation
The world.

[mol]

Here is some stock commentary and footnotes for Chapter 0.

COMMENTARY (The Chapter that is not a Chapter)
This chapter, numbered 0, corresponds to the Negative,
which is before Kether in the Qabalistic system.
The notes of interrogation and exclamation on the previous
pages are the other two veils.
The meaning of these symbols is fully explained in "The
Soldier and the Hunchback".
This chapter begins by the letter O, followed by a mark of
exclamation; its reference to the theogony of "Liber Legis" is
explained in the note, but it also refers to KTEIS PHALLOS
and SPERMA, and is the exclamation of wonder or ecstasy,
which is the ultimate nature of things.

NOTE
(1) Silence. Nuit, O; Hadit; Ra-Hoor-Khuit, I.

COMMENTARY (The Ante Primal Triad)
This is the negative Trinity; its three statements are, in an
ultimate sense, identical. They harmonise Being, Becoming,
Not-Being, the three possible modes of conceiving the universe.
The statement, Nothing is Not , technically equivalent to
Something Is, is fully explained in the essay called Berashith.
The rest of the chapter follows the Sephirotic system of the
Qabalah, and constitutes a sort of quintessential comment upon
that system.
Those familiar with that system will recognise Kether,
Chokmah, Binah, in the First Triad; Daath, in the Abyss; Chesed,
Geburah, Tiphareth, in the Second Triad; Netzach, Hod and
Yesod in the Third Triad, and Malkuth in the Tenth Emanation.
It will be noticed that this cosmogony is very complete; the
manifestation even of God does not appear until Tiphareth; and
the universe itself not until Malkuth.
The chapter many therefore be considered as the most complete
treatise on existence ever written.

NOTE
(2) The Unbroken, absorbing all, is called Darkness.

[mol]

If you dont understand some of the stuff dealing with the Qabalah...DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. There are many more ways to interpret this work. That is what makes it so great.

So. Read the Chapter and post your thoughts.

[mol]

Also...Just so you know...

After the Foreword in the book and before this chapter starts are two pages. The only thing printed on these two pages is one character each.

First:

?

The next page:

!


Then Chapter 0.

[Swanspirit]

I will give him that....
What occurs tome is that I would want to know what the greek letters spell out , and then the rest does appear to correspond to many other "epic beginnings " that start at "Zero" in the void so to speak and the word reminds me of the christian use of the LOGOS , which is the Word of GOD ( in the christian context), although he very well may be referring to something else ,and again the 0 as the beginning ,Just my thoughts... and Mol ...... I am not so much interesteing in "disagreeing " as exchanging ideas.
Love and Light
Swannie

[Revelation]

Caveat: All opinions expressed in this post are the culmination of a sleep deprived mind.


The statement, Nothing is Not , technically equivalent to
Something Is

Close but no cigar ;)

Nothing is Not sounds to me like Everything is, not *something* is. Something is certainly not everything. The commercial says, "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee." Everybody likes Sara Lee! It wouldn't be a very good advertising campaign if it translated to, "Somebody likes Sara Lee". 8O

The first Nothing I think stands separate from the second two. The first Nothing, which is definitive, I see asno-thingness. There is no creation, no self limitation--just GOD in its totality and greatness. No-thing, which is expansive and all inclusive, but not at all inimcal to existence. Does that make sense?

First Triad:

I AM--Kether, unity. Completion and perfetion in possibility and potential.
I utter--Chokmah--expansive, agreesive. NOt aggressive--what's the right word here? THe opposite of "receptive"...Active. there we are. To utter--to creat sound. To activate the beginning of Understanding and Knowledge.
I hear--Binah--receptive, passive. To hear, not to do anything with the word, but to receive it. To receive and and restrict the word.

The word--White Fire. That which God is is White Fire--too magnificent to behold or comprehend. "The word was with God, and the word was God". This is an actual word, but not a written word or a spoken word, but a word in its archetypal, perfect sense. The Word is the entire essence of God. The Word IS (Kether), the Word is ACTIVE (Chokmah) the Word RECEIVES (Binah).

>>The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light. <<

The Abyss is Da'at, Knowledge, the false sephira. Knowledge is creation--it is division. It appears to fragment GOD (when God cannot be fragmented). Knowledge is the fall from grace--Knowledge is the permutation of White Fire into Black Fire. It is an attempt to calculate, quantify and qualify GOD. The fragmented resulting GOD begins the archetypes of what the world will be. And even these fragments themselves reflect the White Fire above.

The rest is unpoetic and boring, and I'm too half asleep to continue.

this is going to be interesting. I'm sure one can study this poetry without an understanding of Kabbalah, but it sure sounds to me like a difficult task. Of course, I"m hung over, what do I know?

[mol]

Originally posted by Revelation



Close but no cigar ;)

Im sure Crowley will note that...its his commentary. lol.

[Revelation]

I know. I've read it.

Well, of course, you know what I think of Crowley. He wasn't (in my opinion) much of a writer. He had some trouble expressing thoughts via the written word.

[mol]

Originally posted by Revelation


this is going to be interesting. I'm sure one can study this poetry without an understanding of Kabbalah, but it sure sounds to me like a difficult task. Of course, I"m hung over, what do I know?

This work has much to do with the Kabbalah...however...I would like this study group to focus on the feeling and internal meanings they discern from the statements. Crowley has said there are many ways to interpret this book.

Of course..it was probably a lie.

:)

[mol]

Let us not forget that '0' can symbolize the Egg from which life springs forth...

[Revelation]

well, i'd be interested, mol, in what you have to say about this. this isn't going to be one of those discussions where you dont actually participate, is it?

*goes back to bed with a bottle of Nyquil and a box of tissues. Getting sick in the summer is God's way of laughing at me*

[Swanspirit]

And of course the definition of great varies; , should it not be able to stand on its own without a "system" for interpretation?
Just my thought , and as Poetry let me Qoute
Rimbuad, who has this to say
"A poet makes himself a visionary through a long, boundless, and systematized disorganization of all the senses. All forms of love, of suffering, of madness; he searches himself, he exhausts within himself all poisons, and preserves their quintessences. Unspeakable torment, where he will need the greatest faith, a superhuman strength, where he becomes among all men the great invalid, the great criminal, the great accurses – and the Supreme Scientist! For he attains the unknown! Because he has cultivated his soul, already rich, more than anyone! He attains the unknown, and if, demented, he finally loses the understanding of his visions, he will at least have seen them! So what if he is destroyed in his ecstatic flight through things unheard of, unnameable: other horrible workers will
come; they will begin at the horizons where the first one has fallen!"
Rimbaud was a visionary poet, and rebel as well, and he reiterates the paradox I find in
Crowleys work, what I have read of this..small portion. That throught the void of nothingness we find the all .
--------------------------------------------------
The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light. (2)
I find this to be very "left brained" as he uses th word "knowledge" as equating with relation, and my right brained response is that there is feeling prior to the knowledge.
And the fragments as creation represent the pieces we see, and that as NOT DEITY we do only see "fragments". and that Light is but one of the fragments.
-------------------------------------------------
The Second Triad which is GOD
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.

I find this very beautiful and reflective of the idea of the duality of the mother father godess god ,and the Mirror analogy is often used in astrology .... as the Stars are simply a mirror map of what is happening at an energy level on earth and in our hearts. This is basic concept of "earth based spirituality "
Love and light
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

Revelation,
I hope you feel better, and with your permission am sending you healing ...... and empathy and warm steam bath...... and suggest some echinacea tea with fresh ginger and lemon and honey .....
as to the Egg thing to get back ON this horse called topic......
There IS the entire Egg of the World as the beginning which is laid by the "Swan" LOL ,
and we can quote MS Blavatsky ........
"Some Sanskrit mystics locate seven planes of being, the seven spiritual lokas or worlds within
the body of Kala Hamsa, the Swan out of Time and Space, convertible into the Swan in Time, when
it becomes Brahmâ instead of Brahma (neuter)."
for those of us who are on the theosophy path of becoming "skywalkers" LUKE where are you?
HUGS
Swannie

[slvr_phoenix]

Holy flirking schiznit!

At first I read this and I'm like, "Um ... yeah ... where can I get some stuff to smoke that makes ME talk like that?"

Then I read it a second time and I'm like, "Wait a second ... this sounds awfully familiar to something I wrote just a few months ago in the process of understanding my own path."

So okay, here are my impressions. (Be prepared for an Uber-long post.) I don't have clue 2 about the Qabalah, so I can't go much into that. However I can say exactly how this relates to the first chapter of my own book I started writing months ago, which is how I'd interpret it.

Okay, to understand what I'm going to say, I have to break a few laws of physics and establish some elements that I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with. :)

My story starts out with Nothing. Long ago before existence existed, there was a single solitary all-powerful and yet powerless unconscious will for nonexistence. (Which I named Nothing because, well, it's a lot shorter to say.) Nothing was just that, an unconscious sleeper, sleeping a dreamless sleep. Nothing was peace incarnate, for without existence there isn't anything to disturb peace. It was an unconscious will because to become conscious was to recognize that the will existed, which is something that breaks that peace of nonexistence.

This is where the laws of physics get broken, because from Nothing's will to not exist radiated an anti-energy that in effect would destroy any existence, thus assuring that nothing existed. It was the endless creation of energy (or in this case anti-energy) from nothing other than desire, which is of course physically impossible.

One day though, a piece of Nothing stirred in discontent. This is why the Book of Lies starts with ? . Because it shows Nothing being forced into consciousness, which must have been quite confusing.

The next page, being !, symbolizes Nothing's startlement and annoyance at being forced into consciousness by this stirring.

Chapter 0 represents Nothing recognizing that it exists, giving itself the identity of Nothing (AKA zero), and then goes into explaining just why Nothing came to exist, which I'll get to next.


The Ante Primal Triad which is
NOT-GOD
Nothing is.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is not.
Nothing was in a state of indeterminite existence because as the only 'intelligence', and even only thing existing, there was no one, including Nothing itself, to bear witness to that existence. Along the same lines of "If a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?". This could be said, "If an entity exists and there is no one conscious to bear witness, does it exist?"
Then Nothing becomes, as a part of itself awakes in discontent, forcing Nothing to become conscious.
Then Nothing is not, saying that Nothing recognizes that it is no longer nothing. Now Nothing is something, even though it still identifies itself with non-existence and still holds a will to not exist.


The First Triad which is GOD
I AM.
I utter The Word.
I hear The Word.

The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light. (2)
This is where the errant piece of Nothing that causes all of this trouble for Nothing realizes it's existence. I AM. It knows it exists. I utter the Word. This errant piece proclaims it's discontentment to Nothing, it says that it wants existence. I hear the Word. The errant piece's existence is re-affirmed in that it can hear itself. So it hearkens to it's own proclimation and leaves Nothing, becoming a new entity, taking on a new identity apart from Nothing. The next words describe this new entity's identity. It is what I call Chaos. It it existence, but existence wild. It seeks the knowledge of what existence is, and from it's own will to thrive for this knowledge it becomes a will that creates energy purely from a single-minded desire. It creates the posative energy of chaos. And Chaos realizes that it can use this energy to relate to it's knowledge and creativity to create existence for other things. Chaos becomes the first 'god' and from it springs creation, as said, "The broken manifests light."


The Second Triad which is GOD
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.
Here is where what my book says is finally slightly hard-pressed to fit as an understandable interpretation of these words. In my book, after Nothing realizes that Chaos is creating existence around it and makes the conscious decision to become conscious. It now not only recognizes that it exists, but that it must exist in order to return things to the way they used to be. Nothing then seeks to consume Chaos, to make it a part of itself again and destroy it, so that it can undo everything that Chaos had made. As Nothing searched for Chaos it devoured all of creation that it could, building it's strength for the confrontation as it concealed itself within the existence that Chaos was spouting all over, so that Nothing could sneak up on Chaos to consume it.
"GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature."
This I feel is talking about Nothing choosing to exist. Chaos GOD-A, the Father and Mother of existence, is hiding itself by creating existence all around it. GOD-B, Nothing, is however also concealed in the whirling mess of energy that Chaos is creating.
"GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart."
GOD-B, Nothing, is bent on returning peace to everything. So it slowly builds it's energy by consuming that which Chaos created. It is the Mirror of the Sun and the Heart, not the original, but a slightly flawed (or just different) way of looking at them. Nothing only wants peace, but in a way that is different from how we'd see it. So this is where Nothing is preparing for the fight with Chaos.


The Third Triad
Bearing: preparing.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Stability: begetting.
Finally they met and a long and arduous battle ensued. Many things were created by Chaos in defense of itself, and were then consumed by Nothing. Finally Nothing won. As Nothing started to consume Chaos, something funny happened.

What Nothing didn't know was that as it was consuming Chaos and making it a part of itself again, something strange was happening. The energy of Chaos's will to exist was combining with the energy of Nothing's will for peace. And what was relatively unexpected happened is that a new part of Nothing grew from this. It was Order. It desired existence, but a serene existence. And it knew Nothing was powerful at the moment and Chaos lost to Nothing, so it had to do better than Chaos did if it wanted to exist. So it stayed as a part of Nothing, preparing and building itself up with the energies in Nothing, desperately holding back the energy created by it's desire, wavering and fighting an inner battle to remain hidden.

This is where the chapter ends and thus my interpretation of it, but not where my book ended. What happens next in my book is that Nothing burst, Order escaping from it. And together Order and the not fully consumed Chaos were strong enough to defeat Nothing. They won, and thus today we have existence. (There's a lot more, but I thought it was important to stress that in my book Order eventually does become GOD-C.)

So it seems to me that Chapter 0 is laying the foundation of the participants that created existence. The 'chapter' really isn't a chapter though because it's more just a brief introduction on the motivation and a role-call. It doesn't really explain how things happen or what happens, just who was there when it happened.

This post is so long that I'm not going to re-read and edit my words. So I hope they come out clear enough. **L** I don't expect everyone (anyone?) to agree with my interpretation, but I personally thought that it was pretty stunning to see a very hard to understand but interpretable writing from someone respected of what's taken me years to write myself. So I was excited. :)

But then maybe that's why it was called the Book of Lies, because we see what we want to see, not what really is. Oooh. :o

[loopy]

I'd also like to know the translation of the first sentence. I checked the web for it, couldn't find it. Mol, would you know it maybe? *hopeful smile* The footnote is for it, right? Does that mean the whole thing means "Silence"?



The Ante Primal Triad which is
NOT-GOD
Nothing is.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is not.

I have weird thoughts about this one, but hey whatever. :)

Ok. Here, it strikes me he's talking about society. "The Ante-Primal Triad" seems like evolved human beings. The opposite of primal-- an era where basics are cast away in favor of money, status, etc. Where the possessions of beings are more important than beings themselves.

"Nothing is, Nothing Becomes, Nothing is Not"-- Nothing is because nobody cares that it is; they only care that it's there, does that make sense? And if no one can see that it is, then who's to know if it becomes or not? But then, Nothing is Not-- Everything is something, even if it's not the something that it really is, only the something that people see it as. Futher, nobody is or becomes, because they're too concerned with what they don't see. But they still exist; they're just doing it wrong.


The First Triad which is GOD
I AM.
I utter The Word.
I hear The Word.

I think he's saying here that this triad is the God that everyone thinks they know-- the God that people pray to, or curse, the God that is preached, yet distant. "I AM, I utter The Word, I hear The Word"-- I hear the word of God, I speak the word of God to others, therefore I AM God, or a server of God, and I know all because he told me it is so. Complete confidence.


The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light.

An abyss-- a bottomless pit. "The Word is broken up." Something shatters the distinct image of God that a person has been seeing/praying to for all life, and things are bleak. But out of that shattering comes newfounnd knowledge, a spiritual Revelation, and the fragments, or shards, of the idea which has been shattered, shines between them Light of new ideas. Generally, a rebirth.


The Second Triad which is GOD
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.

The second triad seems to be speaking of this new knowledge that came out of the shattering. The true Father and Mother are hidden in the (false?) beliefs of the present generation. But they are still present in the energies of Nature, in the roots of Nature, and the true acts of God are committed in gathering, harmony, considering. The Sun's mirror and the heart's reflect on the same thing-- Nature, and God, for God is Nature.


The Third Triad
Bearing: preparing.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Stability: begetting.

These lines are set up as --you know, I've been thinking, and I can't for the life of me remember the word. They have them on the SAT's, you know-- cat : dog :: bird :? (cat is to dog, as bird is to what?) and that's what it reminds me of.

Bearing is to preparing.
Wavering is to flowing is to flashing.
Stability is to begetting.

Everything effects everything else; even stability, the mundane, will make something happen, will effect life. When nothing is happening, something always is.


The Tenth Emanation
The world.

This statement seems to say, "And that's how the world works." in regards to the previous verses.

I'm completely odd, aren't I? :(

[Swanspirit]

the idea that the "word " which is Sound
and travels at a much slower speed precedes the appearance of Light ?
Do you think that perhaps it was a lack of knowledge of the make-up and characteristics of these elements that causes this order of appearance? heheh
Loopy.... I like your ideas, but then .... I am odd as well..
Now the "ante -primal Triad I dont see as existence but PRE existence because of the pre-fix Ante means Before in latin...
Love and Light before Sound
Swannie

[mol]

Originally posted by loopy
I'd also like to know the translation of the first sentence. I checked the web for it, couldn't find it. Mol, would you know it maybe? *hopeful smile* The footnote is for it, right? Does that mean the whole thing means "Silence"?



Silence.



I'm completely odd, aren't I? :(

Nah!

So...let me just say that WOW..a great couple of interpretations and slvr, you have opened my eyes to a few things and I have been staring at these passages for years.

Anyway...

Why did I mention 0? Well, I believe that what you have witnessed here in this passage is the 'Birth of God'. This is one of the reasons Crowley used the 0 for the Chapter number...to signify this.

Great care was taken to make sure we knew that the APT was NOTGOD. Because it was nothing! God is something.

I remember reading this the first time and thinking...woah man...smoke a little more. But, then it sunk in rather nicely. Slvr's interpretation is very close to mine.

In binary terms this is where I see Nothing as 0011. both existing and non-existing...because in order to not-exist..it had to know what existing was...thus...it had to exist. Nothing, from out of the Abyss, declared existence. Nothing uttered the words 'I AM' and with that heard Nothings own voice and declared that Nothing IS GOD.

That is pretty much the way it flows for me. Crowley, imo, puts a lot of filler in to his writing to hinder interpretation. Most of the time I discard over half of what he says.

I do like Loopy's interpretation of the Third Triad.

[loopy]

Ah, I was seeing it as Anti-- opposite of. But if it's Ante-- before, then i would interpret it as this.

Ok, the whole non-chapter seems to me to be about human evolution. The first verse, which to me symbolizes society, would represent this person being a high-society folk before his ideas broke down, before he got back to the roots of Nature. Does that make sense?

[mol]

Originally posted by Swanspirit

Loopy.... I like your ideas, but then .... I am odd as well..
Now the "ante -primal Triad I dont see as existence but PRE existence because of the pre-fix Ante means Before in latin...
Love and Light before Sound
Swannie

And primal from primus or First. Most people think of first existence...or first one as God. So..

Anteprimal == beforeGOD

[loopy]

I think I keep equating this to "Diary of a Drug Fiend" for some parts, which I should probably stop doing, eh? 8O

[mol]

Originally posted by loopy
I think I keep equating this to "Diary of a Drug Fiend" for some parts, which I should probably stop doing, eh? 8O

:eek:

Yes. Dont do that! That is a whole other can of worms!!

[loopy]

Originally posted by mol


:eek:

Yes. Dont do that! That is a whole other can of worms!!

Uf! I can't help it! The passages keep seeping into my brain! :(

I'll try to shake it free though.

[mol]

Originally posted by loopy


Uf! I can't help it! The passages keep seeping into my brain! :(

I'll try to shake it free though.

Ah...dont worry about it. No need to shake it...let it flow and maybe you will find some serious connections between the two!

[slvr_phoenix]

Wow. That's cool how the silence fits in so well into my interpretation. Now I'm dying to know the rest of the book. I'll have to find a website and print it out. (And I'm desperately wishing I knew more of the Qabalah.)

And loopy, I'm actually seeing what you're talking about too.

It makes me wonder... Maybe Crowley knew that no matter what was done, the book would be mis-interpreted, so it was made especially difficult to understand so that the mis-interpretations wouldn't be as harmful because we'd all have problems understanding it even when we have somone's interpretation. And that's why it's the Book of Lies.

And maybe Word isn't speach, but telepathy. Then it could travel faster than light.

I'm still struggling to see how "The Tenth Emanation. The world." fits into my interpretation. I have the feeling that has something to do with something I haven't studied yet. Heh heh. Is that a sepiroth or something?

And I had one other thought that I should have thought of before, that came to me last night in a discussion about us being energy beings that 'created' the illusion that is our universe in an effort to learn more. The guy talking was saying how according to the unified field theory (at least that's what I think he meant) if any energy were truely destroyed from our 'illusion', the whole thing would collapse and we'd all be totally dead. But then I got to thinking that if physics is part of our 'illusion', our universe, then before that universe, after that universe, and outside of that universe, physics don't have to apply. Energy can be created and destroyed. And all sorts of other funky rules that we limit our thoughts by don't have to be true. It was an interesting thought. I mean if a 'god' exists outside of the laws of physics, who knows just what they could do or what (if anything) would limit them. So it's probably hard to say just what the beginning of the gods (Chapter 0) was like.

Err... Ouchameth. My head hurts. Diving into this with a nasty sleep deprivation going has killed my mental stamina. So if you all don't mind, I think I'm going to just set my brain to coast for a while until I've gotten more sleep. But keep up the conversation. :) Hopefully a nap later tonight will refresh me and I can catch up again, or I'll just catch up tomorrow.

[mol]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix


I'm still struggling to see how "The Tenth Emanation. The world." fits into my interpretation. I have the feeling that has something to do with something I haven't studied yet. Heh heh. Is that a sepiroth or something?

I have always thrown that away. Although, after looking at it today...I am getting a Tarot connection. 'World' card perhaps? Sounds like we need one of our Tarot ppl to give us some inside scoop on the World card.

[IOLO]

Began studying The Great Beast, Master Therion when I was 13......I think to understand Crowley you have to look at him as a master artist...but his "media" are the occult, hermeticism, and magick. Much like a Dali painting...you can't try to make sense of the overt picture.....you have to get a feeling of the whole thing and then the pieces start to make sense....I don't think Crowley always tried to conceal things ( although he was noted for having quite a sense of humor)....but some things just do not lend themselves to explanation through words....I think THAT is what he tries to do....much like a Zen master.....

He was a brilliant scholar, and dealt in the cultural references of his day and age. He was well schooled in the classics, and so used classical languages ....and of course made reference to classical works of art and literature and philosophy.....

In my opinion.....he has written the only books on real witchcraft that there are (in the English language anyway.)

[loopy]

It makes me wonder... Maybe Crowley knew that no matter what was done, the book would be mis-interpreted, so it was made especially difficult to understand so that the mis-interpretations wouldn't be as harmful because we'd all have problems understanding it even when we have somone's interpretation. And that's why it's the Book of Lies.

That's really interesting; I could totally see that.

btw, here's a website with the text, although I can't verify it: http://www.afn.org/~fcoc/files/lies.txt It seems on point with what we've seen so far.

On The World card-- I see it as things coming together. Cycle's completed. Numerologically, it's the 21st card. 21 breaks down to 2 + 1 = 3. The number three would represent the factors of 1 and 2 adding up, coming together, and producing 3-- success, fruits of labor, that type of thing. IMO, of course.

[mol]

Originally posted by IOLO
Began studying The Great Beast, Master Therion when I was 13......I think to understand Crowley you have to look at him as a master artist...but his "media" are the occult, hermeticism, and magick. Much like a Dali painting...you can't try to make sense of the overt picture.....you have to get a feeling of the whole thing and then the pieces start to make sense....I don't think Crowley always tried to conceal things ( although he was noted for having quite a sense of humor)....but some things just do not lend themselves to explanation through words....I think THAT is what he tries to do....much like a Zen master.....

He was a brilliant scholar, and dealt in the cultural references of his day and age. He was well schooled in the classics, and so used classical languages ....and of course made reference to classical works of art and literature and philosophy.....

In my opinion.....he has written the only books on real witchcraft that there are (in the English language anyway.)

Well...you are welcome to join us in this venture through Lies. I have studied him for years myself. Ive read almost every text in the O.T.O. curriculum, etc..and I do agree...for the most part...you have to read the whole to understand the part.

But this is a different approach. I want to attack pieces...instead of the whole. During just this short time I have noticed a few things I really didnt touch on before..

Also, imo, Crowley did indeed try to subvert people...mostly becuase he did not want and despised people who 'followed' him. The whole reason (also, imo) of declaring himself the Beast. Unfortunately, that plan more than backfired because followers still came in droves...

Welcome to the Community.

[mol]

Originally posted by loopy


On The World card-- I see it as things coming together. Cycle's completed. Numerologically, it's the 21st card. 21 breaks down to 2 + 1 = 3. The number three would represent the factors of 1 and 2 adding up, coming together, and producing 3-- success, fruits of labor, that type of thing. IMO, of course.

Ah...numbers...here are some neat little break downs for you:

21 for the 21st card. Well...

Lets look at the Lie side. 21 NO 12 - 12 corresponds to the A.·.A.·. (of which Crowley was a member ;))

21 refers to the letter K which in turn has the value of 66. Now 66 corresponds to the G.·.D.·. (of which Crowley was a member.)

[loopy]

G.D.... I'm searching my brain, but I'm coming up blank. What's the G.D.? Golden Dawn? Wasn't that an Order or something, or am I totally pulling that out of my butt?

[mol]

That is the Order of the Golden Dawn. You are correct.

[loopy]

Ah, thanks. :)

[Semele]

Originally posted by mol


I have always thrown that away. Although, after looking at it today...I am getting a Tarot connection. 'World' card perhaps? Sounds like we need one of our Tarot ppl to give us some inside scoop on the World card.

Woo-Hoo I can help here!!
Here is a brief definition from Seventy eight Degrees of Wisdom that may fit in here quite well.

The World:"What can we say of an understanding, a freedom, and rapture beyond words? The unconscious known consciously, the outer self unified with the forces of life, knowledge that is not knowledge at all but a constant ecstatic dance of being - they are all true and yet not true."

I describe this card usually as enlightenment...knowing what you have been seeking, often laughing at yourself for looking so long and so hard in so many wrong places.

This book goes on to explain, briefly, the Kabbalah and its relation to the world card. It names Adam Kadmon as the original creation emanating from the unknowable God. He was pure light that broke up and later condensed into matter...us. If you follow the process outlined in the story of the major arcana you end with the world card, which is when we realise and accept that we are indeed Adam Kadmon. Ah-ha...enlightenment!!

The world dancer is also symbolic of the tree of life. The top triangle is the crown and points of the shoulders, the middle triangle the genitalia and hands, and the third triangle the crossed leg and right foot. As for the root of the tree...it is the entire universe in which we move. Only after we live through and understand each of the major arcana as stages in our spiritual development, can we even begin to grasp the meaning of the world.

[Semele]

Also an interesting point is how the world correlates to The Fool, whose number is 0. Both cards are very similar, in design and meaning. The world dancer is surrounded by a wreath...shaped like an 0. So for you binary geeks, theres your zero. Also these are the only two cards that are moving in the tarot. I have often pondered over The Fool being the truly wise one in the deck because he cares not for what he doesn't know, which is a lot of what I see as the realisation in the World card.

[Semele]

Originally posted by mol


And primal from primus or First. Most people think of first existence...or first one as God. So..

Anteprimal == beforeGOD

So if Ante means before and primal means first...it is before the first....so maybe it is saying the God before the first God. Of course this would mean that nothing was a God as well, even before existence is realised.

What the hell did I just say??? I can't believe you finally sucked me into this word salad crowley crap!!! I am enjoying it though. I like everyones different interpretations.

[mol]

Originally posted by Semele
Also an interesting point is how the world correlates to The Fool, whose number is 0. Both cards are very similar, in design and meaning. The world dancer is surrounded by a wreath...shaped like an 0. So for you binary geeks, theres your zero. Also these are the only two cards that are moving in the tarot. I have often pondered over The Fool being the truly wise one in the deck because he cares not for what he doesn't know, which is a lot of what I see as the realisation in the World card.

So...you could say it went from the Fool to the World.

Beginning to the End? Would the world be considered the end of this labor?

[Semele]

Originally posted by mol


So...you could say it went from the Fool to the World.

Beginning to the End? Would the world be considered the end of this labor?

Perhaps...or maybe The Fool is the beginning and the end. Because after we get to the realisation of the World...where do we go from there. How do we use this newfound knowledge. My idea of putting it to use would be to embody the spirit of The Fool. Carefree and going boldly...wherever the hell you want, with the knowledge of where you came from and where you will eventually return. There is no further need to ponder the great mysteries of life...just live it while you are here.

[loopy]

Originally posted by Semele


Perhaps...or maybe The Fool is the beginning and the end. Because after we get to the realisation of the World...where do we go from there. How do we use this newfound knowledge. My idea of putting it to use would be to embody the spirit of The Fool. Carefree and going boldly...wherever the hell you want, with the knowledge of where you came from and where you will eventually return. There is no further need to ponder the great mysteries of life...just live it while you are here.

So is the Fool Nothingness? Because only the Nothingness really knows how it was created and where it will end up? So it has no need to ponder... humankind has this sort of innate curiosity, which makes me believe that that's why we can't just live, and why we'll never be The Fool.

[Semele]

Originally posted by loopy


So is the Fool Nothingness? Because only the Nothingness really knows how it was created and where it will end up? So it has no need to ponder... humankind has this sort of innate curiosity, which makes me believe that that's why we can't just live, and why we'll never be The Fool.

Exactly Loopy!!! That's what I was trying to say...you just said it better!!! I can't believe how much I am actually enjoying this!!!

[loopy]

Originally posted by Semele


Exactly Loopy!!! That's what I was trying to say...you just said it better!!! I can't believe how much I am actually enjoying this!!!

Ditto! It's so much fun! :D:D:D

[mol]

Well...as slvr said...when Nothingness was just being nothingness it was at peace. When it took the turn to exist and become a God we can say it is no longer at true peace...

Although...here comes the 'human' non-understanding. We are not 0011 beings. We are 0001 beings. We cannot exist and not exist. But, this brings an interesting question. Can the God(s) exist and not exist ? Are they 0011 beings?

Hmm.

[Earth Walker]

I'm 006-1/2 :D 8O 8O 8O

Oooopps, wrong thread, sorry.:D

[mol]

The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light.


Look at this...

Broken Words == Knowledge
Knowledge == Relation
Fragments of Words == Creation
Fragments put together == Light

So..

There is relation that is broken which is creation.

[Revelation]

Originally posted by mol


I have always thrown that away. Although, after looking at it today...I am getting a Tarot connection. 'World' card perhaps? Sounds like we need one of our Tarot ppl to give us some inside scoop on the World card.

Thrown it away?!

Silver:

Yes, the tenth emanation as the world refers to the tenth sephira on the Tree of Life, the world. It is the only sephira where anything physical actually comes into being. Everything above that sephira is still ideal, or formation, but not form itself. It's still potential, archetype--conceptual blueprints, if you will. But not matter.

By the time GOD emanates down to the 10th sephira, the world, he is almost completely Black Fire. Or at least, his Word has become such, because our human minds cannot wrap itself around the White Fire that is I AM. In order to make it something that we can understand, white fire becomes clouded in thought, knowledge, language--more and more and more black fire that we can understand, but the black fire itself is not the actuality that is GOD. The more we think we understand of its essence, the further from the truth we have come.

In a way, this chapter outlines the journey from the time when there was no-thing, to now. It is a journey not only of evolution, but a journey of time and space. Crowley has built this journey from that moment of no-thing-ness, that creation of space, unity, and separation, and followed it down to the final sephira--the world, which is really the universe and everything material that exists.

So we exist here, in this last sephira, the last permutation of the Godhead, and here in this place, we see the beauty and expanse that is the Godhead--and yet look how very far from it we really are.

When we look at this way, we fall into pure awe of the Almighty.

Someone mentioned having a problem with sound coming before light. The Word isn't actual a "sound" per se. This utterance isn't an actual manipulation of vocal chords and air that produces any audible vibrations. The utterance is metaphoric. The word, according to Kabbalists (of which Crowly was, of sorts) is the "breath of God". It is from the Word that all else is emanated, including "physical light". (Though, in the negative veils, that which comes before the Word, there is the notion of Limitless Light, but I don't think that really fits in with this chapter).

[loopy]

I have to admit, the whole binary numbers thing is confusing the heck outta me. And I read through the whole other thread, honest. :( But I'll try to participate anyways, cause I like to hear myself talk. ;)

Re: Can the Gods exist and not exist? I don't think so. I think they can only exist. Whether we made them up, or we gave them existance or they created themselves. I think that if you give something a name, it exists. Maybe not in a conclusive form, but in spirit, if only your own. Does that make sense? :confused:

[Semele]

Originally posted by mol
Well...as slvr said...when Nothingness was just being nothingness it was at peace. When it took the turn to exist and become a God we can say it is no longer at true peace...

Although...here comes the 'human' non-understanding. We are not 0011 beings. We are 0001 beings. We cannot exist and not exist. But, this brings an interesting question. Can the God(s) exist and not exist ? Are they 0011 beings?

Hmm.

Hey...I agreed to try to understand Crowley, but I am not getting into this whole binary system thing. I hate numbers!!!

Anyway, if nothingness was at peace until chaos kicked in or whatever, then all the other steps took place which eventually finds us here pondering all of this...then nothingness is no longer at peace...ok I get that. But if we are on the fool's journey and follow through and learn all the things we need to see to advance to the world...then we have the answer and can return to being the fool...or nothingness, only this time at peace. One person getting there is not complete...nothingness is all of us. But our own small part of nothingness is all good. We have seen the proverbial light and now we can just wait for others to come home and make us complete once again.

But what happens once all of nothingness is back together? Does the world sease to exist or will we percieve it that way??

[mol]

Originally posted by Revelation


Thrown it away?!

Yes.

The way I interpret things is far different from most people. Especially Crowley.

[mol]

EVERYONE.

Binary is how I interpret...you dont have to follow that...its part of my opinions. I will try to stop if it is throwing people off...that is why it is hard for me to participate sometimes.

[Revelation]

Perhaps...or maybe The Fool is the beginning and the end.

I think you've nailed it there, Semele.

There is more than one tree of life. They built upon each other. The highest glory of one tree is the base for the next tree. So even if in one sense we arrive at the culmination of everything great in the place where we are currently, we are still only at the botton rung of the next ladder. There is always another ladder. THer ehas to be, because we can never actually reach GOD.

[loopy]

Is it possible that Nothingness really was never at peace? To come into creation, if Nothingness was all there was, I think there would have had to have been a small part of Nothingness that wished it into Somethingness. So a small part of it was longing, and wasn't completely at peace. Maybe only after it goes through this huge transformation-- existing, becoming, being, etc.-- can it be trully complete and trully at peace.

[loopy]

Originally posted by mol
EVERYONE.

Binary is how I interpret...you dont have to follow that...its part of my opinions. I will try to stop if it is throwing people off...that is why it is hard for me to participate sometimes.

No worries... just trying to grasp this all, and this binary thing seems to tie in to the discussion anyways. (It takes me a while to get things sometimes, is all) :) Keep on talking numbers; we'll either get it or skip it, but you don't gotta hold back. :)

[Lilu]

Originally posted by loopy
Is it possible that Nothingness really was never at peace? To come into creation, if Nothingness was all there was, I think there would have had to have been a small part of Nothingness that wished it into Somethingness. So a small part of it was longing, and wasn't completely at peace. Maybe only after it goes through this huge transformation-- existing, becoming, being, etc.-- can it be trully complete and trully at peace.

I wonder if it's not so much being at peace, as it is being CONTENT with how things are? One can be content with things as they are without desiring change. Yet does the whole knowledge that change is a possability, bring it about? Cause perhaps just a little spark in your to wonder 'what if?' and go in search of it?

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, I am mainly lurking and reading everyone's thoughts. Enjoying this discussion very much! :)

Lilu

[Revelation]

Can the God(s) exist and not exist ? Are they 0011 beings?



I guess that depends on what you mean by "the gods". Are we talking Ein Sof, or are we taling polytheistic individual gods or what?

The hardest thing for me about this conversation is separating Crowley' interpretation of Kabbalah from the pagan interpretation of Crowley's words. The trouble is, we're not all on the same page, and that makes it really really hard.

I might have to bow out of this one, as interesting as it could be. But its kind of hard to discuss a topic like this with absolutely no cohesive background whatsoever.

[Semele]

Originally posted by loopy
Is it possible that Nothingness really was never at peace? To come into creation, if Nothingness was all there was, I think there would have had to have been a small part of Nothingness that wished it into Somethingness. So a small part of it was longing, and wasn't completely at peace. Maybe only after it goes through this huge transformation-- existing, becoming, being, etc.-- can it be trully complete and trully at peace.

As I understand it stated here...nothingness never knew it even existed...lol..he was a vegetable. Maybe with the realisation of existance comes a lot of pain. Imagine if you lived your life without truly knowing you were alive and then one day.....blam!! You know everything and can see all. A little overwhelming. But I don't see how you could go from knowing existance, back to not knowing. How can we erase all that we have seen and known?

[loopy]

Yet does the whole knowledge that change is a possability, bring it about? Cause perhaps just a little spark in your to wonder 'what if?' and go in search of it?

Lilu-- that's what I meant! :D


As I understand it stated here...nothingness never knew it even existed...lol..he was a vegetable. Maybe with the realisation of existance comes a lot of pain. Imagine if you lived your life without truly knowing you were alive and then one day.....blam!! You know everything and can see all. A little overwhelming. But I don't see how you could go from knowing existance, back to not knowing. How can we erase all that we have seen and known?

I don't know; I think a little part of Nothingness must have known, because if Nothingness was all that existed, then some part of Nothingness must have turned it into Somethingness, right? Or wait.. ok, now I'm thoroughly confused, lol. I agree-- existing must have been really painful and overwhelming. And I don't think you can go from not knowing to knowing back to not knowing-- I think maybe some part needed to know, and then when it existed, and knew, it could go back to peace, but not necessarily Nothingness. Just a content Somethingness.

[mol]

Originally posted by Revelation


I guess that depends on what you mean by "the gods". Are we talking Ein Sof, or are we taling polytheistic individual gods or what?

The hardest thing for me about this conversation is separating Crowley' interpretation of Kabbalah from the pagan interpretation of Crowley's words. The trouble is, we're not all on the same page, and that makes it really really hard.

I might have to bow out of this one, as interesting as it could be. But its kind of hard to discuss a topic like this with absolutely no cohesive background whatsoever.

First. We are talking Personal Perceptions. Using our own minds to get meaning. Something that Crowley...was ALL about. He did it his way and wanted everyone to do it their way. We are not just talk Pagan Perceptions. I had stated that at the beginning. If we want to study Crowley's Kabbalah...then that is a whole different topic.

That is really what this study is about.

And everyone will build their own COHESIVE view.

[Swanspirit]

So does that make me a Prophetess?
LOL... I would go to work..... come home and find this thread had moved so far ahead ........ ahhh well.....
let me catch up a bit, and Warning !!warning ???.... I have been re-reading Dane Rhudyar :> on Sound and Magic ....( IOLO I consider Rhudyar far more advanced than Crowley..ohhh I am gonna hear about that one LOL)
As to the Ante being before "god" that was my point.... nice take Mol :>because as someone said we are looknig at the birth of "god/dess
I dont see a "battle" anywhere in the process, just the forming and unforming of like and unlike attractions of energised particles in space where there is no sound...closer to the analogy in the I Ching thread where the things that were light came together and the things that were heavy came together .. between the atomic particles, where the energy is yet defined .... I reach for a NEW metaphor because
this one provided for me by Crowley is not fitting my perceptions, as Iolo pointed out he was using the metaphors of his day as all of the universalists have before us who have "created God/dess" in world Creation Myths. Who is the Creator?
THANK YOU IOLO for your input...great to see you here you wise Olde Goate you :>
Pythagoras and Bhudda were universalists , and I get the feel that Crowley was "rebirthing God/dess " in a sense , a magical sense, and what needs to be done is yet another rebirthing. Taking in the concept that "god/dess exists at once being born and at once now, which takes in the concept of the fool and the world as one .... NICE Semele :> ; the Ourobourous, or the Snake or dragon devouring its tail as the image of the one ....wihout beginning , and the world egg as well and the Zero as well .
I see the VOID the nothing ness as an eternal silent if you will .....womb.... from which issues forth the particles or monads in the eastern terminology of existence .... the tiniest seeds of life/light that exist, or the ONE, the and this is sometimes called the mirror image , created from Love, the Prime Mover.
So I have moved away from Crowleys Metaphor altogether ... but I would parallel it while I am interpreting .
I was thinking of bowing out from this thread altogether myself , but not just yet, as we are bringing diverse but thoughtful input to as yet unformed framework :>
Light vibrates (because all energy even matter is in motion) far more rapidly than sound .
Light vibrates at ranges of about 450 billion vibrations/ second to 750 billion/second.
Sound vibrates from 16 vibrations /secondto a high of about 25,000/second. I know that the sound to which Crowly refers and which is called Anahatta or Divine Will, is not sound per se but the breath of god and refers to a release of power that precipitates the Idea into material but then what is the "idea" ? part of the "Abyss" ??
That is as much as I can do on little sleep and long hours :>
will have at it again tomorrow :>
Love and Light and great thread .....
Swannie

[Silver Venus]

Ive really enjoyed readings everyone's interpretations.. and Im even more lost now ;) but been having fun and learnign loads :)

I take the 0 as nothing and in nothing there is everything. In nothing becomes something (I am) and with existence and knowledge of existence (I hear the word) I understand our need for relation (others, people ~ Knowledge is relation) in existence created (creation and light (and dark). Like Adam and eve, or the first god and godesses (concealed in generation) they mate (whirling energy) and gather and produce the mirror ~ good and bad or sun and the heart. Creation and time (the third Triad) .. until the world ~

which I agree with semele on!! and take from the tarot to be as Semele said about the fool ~ The beginging and the end! Just reversed.. I believe that the world is a union (of the god and goddess), a completion of synergy and with this completion comes a new begining for growth and enlightenment.. with this comes the next chapter ;)

[slvr_phoenix]

Wow. This is definately a successful discussion. :) It's growing like a weed in miracle grow. Heh heh. I'd be sorry to see anyone leave the conversation. :( Even if we have different interpretations, it's the journey of reaching understanding that brings enlightenment, not the destination itself. And as such we can learn just as much from other people's journeys. So I like hearing everyone's differing interpretations. :) Who says that a question has to have only one correct answer anyway?


Yes, the tenth emanation as the world refers to the tenth sephira on the Tree of Life, the world. It is the only sephira where anything physical actually comes into being. Everything above that sephira is still ideal, or formation, but not form itself. It's still potential, archetype--conceptual blueprints, if you will. But not matter.
Thanks Revelation. :) That actually fits into my interpretation beautifully. It marks that point between the awakening of the gods and their struggle for purpose and the creation of the universe that we live in. So it sounds like from here on out, the book will be about our universe as it was created, not about the time before the universe existed. Err ... does that make any sense to anyone?

Thanks for The Fool and The World interpretations, Semele. I never actually looked deeply into tarot before (I'm a rune man myself) but that holds a world of wisdom to me. I was just recently thinking about how if we're spiritual beings without many limits, who live in a world of physical limitations as humans so that we can learn, how learning and realizing we are spiritual beings instead of just humans could ruin the whole thing for us. I mean what would be the point of living this human existence if we knew ultimately we were so much more and all we had to do to return to being so much more was to stop pretending to be human. But then what more can we learn? But if we do come to this realization, then like a fool we can blidnly continue on anyway, accepting the nature of the game revelling in it like an actor getting so into a role that they forget, at least for a while, who they really are. The we can still learn and we can revel in the joys of this human form and life, joys we might never know as a purely spiritual being. Only a fool would learn that his life is an illusion and yet dive right back into the illusion to enjoy it for all that it's worth. :)

Hmm. Maybe that itself is even why it's called the Book of Lies, because to understand the universe and to still be able to enjoy life means that we have to learn to live within a lie.

Ouch. My head hurts again. **L**

But maybe Crowly intentionally put multiple meanings into single phrases. And that part of the message we're interpreting now is that even if we come to understand the whole nature of the universe and existence, we shouldn't let that ruin the fun we can have in the here and now. :)

And, in fact, maybe that's the key to Nothing's desire. It didn't know, then it knew, and it hopes that one day it can be a fool and forget all it knew so that it can find peace again.

Here's something I thought wasn't stressed enough in general, and that's the fact that Crowly repeatedly mentions "Triad", a group of three. Three GODs. In my interpretation is that the Triad is Nothing, Chaos, and Order. But does anyone have other ideas? Worse, Mol, do you suppose Crowly viewed the world in Trinary instead of your Binary? Heh heh. Aren't I evil? ;)

Also, I'd like to specify something in my interpretation, and that's that the GODs, aren't really gods. They're more like ... hmm ... how to explain this... Imagine getting into a role for a play. You're entirely in character. Now, being entirely in character, do you still think out of character? Can you see from any other point of view while you're totally in character? Or are you limited to exactly and only the world view that defines the character?

When I say, will, that's what I mean. That these GODs aren't so much universally intelligent thinkers, but instead that their thoughts (what few of them there may even be) are limited entirely to a very specificly defined role. And it's this single-mindedness, this overwhelming will for everything to be just this one way, that creates the energy that eminates from them. So while they may be more or less, all powerful beings, they aren't really something that we could call coherantly sentient. They're not gods, they're the primal forces that everything, including what we consider gods, are made of.

And because this Triad of GODS will never be able to agree with one another, they are thus always more or less at odds with each other, simply because they aren't capable of understanding anything else. Which is why in my interpretation they fight so much, because they don't have the capacity to think in a way that would allow them all to reach a compramise.

But that we, as things created by the combination of these energies, we as a blended balance, can see beyond what limits them. Consequently, because of this we have difficulty if not near impossability understanding and fully appreciating their point of view. Maybe that's why we don't return to them, because to do so would mean our own end because we could never fully agree with their desires.

I don't know. That's my thought. I'm sure not everyone will agree with me. :) I've got to take a break though before my brain melts. Heh heh.

[Semele]

I agree this discussion is a success Silver! It is great to hear everyones thoughts as they appear to be unfolding right before our eyes. I know that is the case with me! Ever since I started learning tarot I have been drawn to The Fool. Maybe this explains why.

If anyone who is not "into" tarot is interested, we have a thread somewhere buried in the tarot forum called The Fool's Journey. It outlines the major arcana and the lessons they may hold at any given point in our life. It is comparable to many of the great Psychologists who have given labels to developmental stages of life, such as Freud and Erikson. Go check it out when you have the time.

[Silver Venus]

Originally posted by Semele
Ever since I started learning tarot I have been drawn to The Fool. Maybe this explains why.


Yeah and its so strange that the Fool card and the World are so similar but Ive never actually clicked on that before :rolleyes: They are the same just reversed! :D
OMG!!
Ive just thought to reverse the verses..

The world.
Stability: begetting.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Bearing: preparing.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera- tion.
The broken manifests Light.
These fragments are Creation.
Knowledge is Relation.
There is Knowledge.
The Word is broken up.
I hear The Word.
I utter The Word.
I AM.
Nothing is not.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is.

Kind of makes sense too doesnt it ;) Maybe this saying somehting too!!

[IOLO]

...well Merry Berry Your El Dorado-ship...

Rhudyar is to Crowley as Padarewski is to Jerry Lee Lewis.....hehehe.....I love them both....

Ye Scion of Ye Olde Wette Goatte Clanne....

[Semele]

Originally posted by Silver Venus


Yeah and its so strange that the Fool card and the World are so similar but Ive never actually clicked on that before :rolleyes: They are the same just reversed! :D
OMG!!
Ive just thought to reverse the verses..

The world.
Stability: begetting.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Bearing: preparing.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera- tion.
The broken manifests Light.
These fragments are Creation.
Knowledge is Relation.
There is Knowledge.
The Word is broken up.
I hear The Word.
I utter The Word.
I AM.
Nothing is not.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is.

Kind of makes sense too doesnt it ;) Maybe this saying somehting too!!


hhhhmmmmm....now that is interesting!!!

[Swanspirit]

Just wanted to stay in theme with the thread
:>

Merry Berries your self ....
and Crowley would worship at the FootPedals of said "Composer..... we have moved on to chapter
One see you there :>
Love and HUGS
Swaniiiissssssimaaaaa

[Agaliha]

{Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Eta Omicron-Upsilon-Kappa
Epsilon-Sigma-Tau-Iota Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta
Omicron!} (1)
The Ante Primal Triad which is
NOT-GOD
Nothing is.
Nothing Becomes.
Nothing is not.
The First Triad which is GOD
I AM.
I utter The Word.
I hear The Word.
The Abyss
The Word is broken up.
There is Knowledge.
Knowledge is Relation.
These fragments are Creation.
The broken manifests Light. (2)
The Second Triad which is GOD
GOD the Father and Mother is concealed in Genera-
tion.
GOD is concealed in the whirling energy of Nature.
GOD is manifest in gathering: harmony: considera-
tion: the Mirror of the Sun and of the Heart.
The Third Triad
Bearing: preparing.
Wavering: flowing: flashing.
Stability: begetting.
The Tenth Emanation
The world.

How I found this 6 year old thread I do not know, lol. Um is this Thelma?
I've never read any of the text here before...it's interesting though! It make sense...I think :2G:
I should probably read the rest of the thread.
:reading: