Pantheism

[WynterSpirit]

I ran across this a few months ago....and wondered if this is where my place is......I know the explanation is long (I didn't write it) but its worth reading. After reading.....is there anyone else here who thinks they might fit this "mold" or wonder more about it? I know nothing about it really, other than I was intrigued by this explanation of Pantheism....and wish I discuss it further.
**************************
Is Nature your spiritual home? Do you feel a deep sense of peace and belonging and wonder in the midst of nature, in a forest, by the ocean, or on a mountain top? Are you speechless with awe when you look up at the sky on a clear moonless night?

The belief statement of the World Pantheist Movement (WPM): 1. We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder. 2. All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art. 3. We are an integral part of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all its magnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony with Nature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life, human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion and respect. 4. All humans are equal centers of awareness of the Universe and nature, and all deserve a life of equal dignity and mutual respect. To this end we support and work towards freedom, democracy, justice, and non-discrimination, and a world community based on peace, sustainable ways of life, full respect for human rights and an end to poverty. 5. There is a single kind of substance, energy/matter, which is vibrant and infinitely creative in all its forms. Body and mind are indivisibly united. 6. We see death as the return to nature of our elements, and the end of our existence as individuals. The forms of "afterlife" available to humans are natural ones, in the natural world. Our actions, our ideas and memories of us live on, according to what we do in our lives. Our genes live on in our families, and our elements are endlessly recycled in nature. 7. We honor reality, and keep our minds open to the evidence of the senses and of science's unending quest for deeper understanding. These are our best means of coming to know the Universe, and on them we base our aesthetic and religious feelings about reality. 8. Every individual has direct access through perception, emotion and meditation to ultimate reality, which is the Universe and Nature. There is no need for mediation by priests, gurus or revealed scriptures. 9. We uphold the separation of religion and state, and the universal human right of freedom of religion. We recognize the freedom of all pantheists to express and celebrate their beliefs, as individuals or in groups, in any non-harmful ritual, symbol or vocabulary that is meaningful to them. More about the World Pantheist Movement: In the WPM we take the real universe and nature as our starting and finishing point, not some preconceived idea of God. We feel a profound wonder and awe for these, similar to the reverence that believers in more conventional gods feel towards their deity, but without grovelling worship or belief that Nature has a mind or personality that we can influence through prayer or ritual. Our ethics are humanistic and green, our metaphysics naturalist and scientific, but to these we add the emotional and aesthetic dimensions which humans need to joyfully embrace their place in the universe and to motivate their concern for nature and human welfare. In the WPM we revere and care for nature, we accept this life as our only life, and this earth as our only paradise, if we look after it. We revel in the beauty of nature and the night sky, and are full of wonder at their mystery and power. Our beliefs and values reconcile spirituality and rationality, emotion and values and environmental concern with science and respect for evidence. Why do we need a spirituality of nature? Most people have a sense that there is something greater than the self or than the human race. The WPM's naturalistic reverence for nature can satisfy this need, without sacrificing logic or respect for evidence and science. As one member put it, it is spirituality without absurdity. It does not require faith in miracles, invisible entities or supernatural powers. It accepts and affirms life joyously. It does not regard this life as a waiting room or a staging post on the way to a better existence after death. It has a healthy and positive attitude to sex and life in the body. It teaches reverence and love and active concern for nature. Nature was not created for us to use or abuse - Nature created us, we are an inseparable part of her, and we have a duty of care towards her. It enthusiastically embraces the picture of a vast, creative and often violent universe revealed by the Hubble Space Telescope. We need a spirituality in keeping with this new knowledge, not one that seeks to deny or explain away parts of it. It does not simply co-exist uncomfortably with science: it fully embraces science as part of the human exploration of the awesome universe. However, this does not mean we believe that science can answer all questions, nor that we endorse all modern technologies regardless of their impact on nature. So why an organization? Most people also have a deep need to belong to a community - this is perhaps the main reason why people join or stick with religions they may privately doubt. The WPM aims to provide a spiritual and social "home base" for people who love Nature and the Universe but do not believe in supernatural entities. A home base that provides the community support of local groups, and facilitators to help celebrate natural weddings, funerals and other special occasions in the style that people really want. A base where you can share your beliefs and your enthusiasms without fear of being ostracized or considered an outsider.

[gwendar]

I think pantheism is really interesting, and it makes a lot of sense to me. However, I think I'm a Panentheist (at the moment, at least), which is the view that Divinity/God(dess) is both within and beyond nature/the universe.... Or, it's something like that anyway. That's probably how I would best describe my views.
If someone has a better definition, by all means, go ahead!

[Sibylle]

*agrees with Gwendar*

[Scarlettvixen]

Winter i found http://www.pantheism.net/ today and have been reading
its like finally someone has put a name to what i believe!

[WynterSpirit]

Hello gwendar, Stella and Scarlet :wave

Scarlet...I can totally relate to what you said....its nice to have a "name" and an explanation for it. I think before I found all that, I was trying to figure out my place and trying to stuff myself into some other mold that just wasn't fitting. :)

[gwendar]

I know what you mean. I searched for close to two years (I know it's not that long, but it was rough. I think I almost lost myself) for a place to belong. It wasn't so much about findiing a label to hide under, so much as it was like finding the perfect bed to rest in. And it was only within the last month or so that I really started to figure it out, and it feels so terrific! Not that my journey is over, by any means, I have so much learning to do, but where I am now, for the time being, is very satisfying!
I'm glad you're finding yourself as well!
:floating:

[Sibylle]

That sounds awesome! As for me, I think I've found myself - I'm a pagan walking my own path, and changing directions to explore different aspects now and then. It's not inconsistent or contradictory in my view, it's just the way I develop.

But I would love to find more people whose views are like mine... so far, I've met only a handful of other pagans with similar practises. On the one hand, it's the way I choose to be... on the other, it would be so nice sometimes, just to lean back and think "aaaaah".

*stops rambling*

Hugs!!

[Viviane]

Wynter my pet.....Its great that you have found a name for what you feel. Thats awsome. Now if only I could be that lucky.


ps.....glad you gave me the link to here!

[equinox2]

Hey, I’m a Pantheist too!

Pantheism describes a bit about what you believe, but it doesn’t say much about what you do.

For that, I’ve found the Pagan holidays and symbols of the wheel of the year work well. It’s too easy to lose touch with any path that isn’t celebrated as part of your life, and these celebrations keep me connected to my spirituality, and indeed to our glorious universe. To be clear about how I celebrate, I use the term Naturalistic Pagan. I’ve put together a little page on it here:

www.naturalpagan.org (see especially the “what is a naturalistic Pagan?” link on the left menu, that page has a link to “The Wheel”, which describes the symbols).

There is also a thread on it here: http://www.paganforums.org/showthread.php?t=57102

Our universe is AWESOME!! :dancy:

May the galaxies light your path-

[cheddarsox]

I consider myself a panentheist, but I hang with the pans too. I currently attend a UU church that has a pagan subgroup, but mostly practice as a solitary or by inviting others to events at my home.

cheddar

[cheddarsox]

I checked out your Naturalist Pagan website. Nice.

I usually refer to myself as a "practical panentheist". the Practical part refers to my recognizing that I need a spirituality that serves me NOW, here in this real day to day life. Like you, I found humanism plain. Unlike you, I don't feel my beliefs are based soley on reason and experience, I have faith and revelation thrown in there as well.

I celebrate some of the solar events, but not all. I don't do the whole wheel of the year. I tend toward May Day as a f ertility festival, Days of the dead, to give me a chance to annualy explore my relationship to mortality, my birthday, because without it this would be a moot point, and Winter Solstice, because I need something solid to get me through the dark time of the year.

My holidays reflect my personal needs, interests, and bugaboos, that is the practical part. They may change as I age and change. These are the holidays that I celebrate with big shindigs and lots of other people. I have some quieter ones as well...

cheddar

[Dead Dogs]

I consider myself a panentheist, but I hang with the pans too. I currently attend a UU church that has a pagan subgroup, but mostly practice as a solitary or by inviting others to events at my home.

cheddar

Have you heard of the Universists? The are kind of like Unitarians, I think. I was reading about them the other day and they seemed interesting.

[Lupercus]

I have allways considered Pantheism to be a very beautiful and dignified belief system, and the Pantheists i have known very fullfilled in it. :hmmmmm:

[cheddarsox]

Have you heard of the Universists? The are kind of like Unitarians, I think. I was reading about them the other day and they seemed interesting.

Yeah, I checked them out, but didn't feel like I fit in. I am not a Unitarian either. I go to church there and hang with them, but am not a member because it doesn't really address what I believe. As far as both those groups go, I feel like they have a different agenda than I do, not a bad agenda, just different.

I belonged to the Universist forum a while back, and havent' checked in recently. I find the discussions here at MW fit where I am better.

I get way tired of always discussing spirituality as if it were an intellectual process only, and that is what I often get at church and on the Universist forum. I like to talk to people who are interested in feeling and experiencing spirituality, and want to talk about those aspects of it too.

I have folks like that at my church, but the actual services appeal more to the active mind than to the spirit. I think that some folks are afraid that spiritual experiences are some sort of delusion or foolishness. They consider themselves too smart and rational to be taken in by such things. I find it completely rational to respond genuinely to both my physical and spiritual experiences. I don't want a "dry" religion!

cheddar

[Agaliha]

Can someone clarify something for me?

I'm currently looking into Panthiesm :reading:

---Pantheists don't have to belive in God or Gods do they? I keep seeing mentions of athiesm and agnosticism in my readings.
---What do they think of say Allah, Bast, Odin, Shiva, and all of them?
---Could the view that all the named, known gods are created (by humans to explain their world) and symbolic of aspects of Earth and humanity be a Pantheist belief? As in they aren't literal.
---Are there Pantheists that believe in reincarnation and things like that? Or can you not be a pantheist and believe in those things?
---What do Pagan Pantheists believe--when it comes to deity?
--Can Pantheists have altars in the sense of attuning to Earth. As in not to do magick or honor Gods in a Pagan sense, but to honor the earth?

[Philosophia]

Can pantheism be combined with other paths that have deities in them?

[Silver Nightfire]

---Pantheists don't have to belive in God or Gods do they? I keep seeing mentions of athiesm and agnosticism in my readings.
---What do they think of say Allah, Bast, Odin, Shiva, and all of them?
---Could the view that all the named, known gods are created (by humans to explain their world) and symbolic of aspects of Earth and humanity be a Pantheist belief? As in they aren't literal.
---Are there Pantheists that believe in reincarnation and things like that? Or can you not be a pantheist and believe in those things?
---What do Pagan Pantheists believe--when it comes to deity?
--Can Pantheists have altars in the sense of attuning to Earth. As in not to do magick or honor Gods in a Pagan sense, but to honor the earth?

Just what I've been wondering :)

[equinox2]

HI-

I can provide some clarification. Pantheism, Universism, UU, Naturalistic Paganism, etc, are all approaches to spirituality that are compatible with agnosticism. They range from mostly atheistic (and less focus on ritual) at one end to having more ritual and more agnostic on the other end. If this spectrum were laid out, it would go:

Atheist, less focus on ritual

Universism






UU

Pantheism



Naturalistic Paganism

Agnostic, a lot of focus on ritual

So in summary:

Universism – a group that is mostly Atheists/agnostics. They are well organized, and often discuss their own lack of a religious faith or the (real) harm fundamentalist religions are having in the world. A good place for an atheist, especially a new deconvert from Christianity. www.universist.org

UU – Open to all faiths, as long as the person tolerates people of other faiths and is willing to focus on our common humanity together. I’m a member, and because they have a lot of atheists, they try not to be too “religious” in their services. However, there is a growing number and influence of Pagans, with more earth-centered worship. They are open to all kinds of belief systems except fundamentalism. www.uua.org

Pantheism – Openly agnostic/atheist with a specific focus on the earth, and little predefined ritual yet. More detail below in answer to your questions. www.pantheism.org I’m a member, and they have nice ways to be together and such.

Naturalistic Paganism- Agnostic or Atheist with rituals and such using the wheel of the year and traditional 8 Sabbats. See www.naturalpagan.org - or the the yahoo group in my .sig. Naturalistic Paganism is kinda like Pantheism with the addition of specific times and ways to celebrate our earth. The philosophy behind them is the same. NP is sorta a subset of Pantheism - both NP and Pantheism have the same worldview (Naturalism – that the universe is governed by natural laws without the need for supernatural gods or such). For instance, I’m a Naturalistic Pagan, and I’m also a member of the WPM.

Agaliha wrote:
I'm currently looking into Panthiesm

---Pantheists don't have to belive in God or Gods do they? I keep seeing mentions of athiesm and agnosticism in my readings.

Pantheists, in general, don’t believe in God or Gods. They are generally atheistic or agnostic, or see God as “the sum of all natural laws” or “the whole natural universe”, which isn’t what is traditionally thought of as “God” (because it’s not anthropomorphic).

---What do they think of say Allah, Bast, Odin, Shiva, and all of them?

That they are human constructions that may be useful or not useful, but are not real entities that exist outside of our ideas of them.

***---Could the view that all the named, known gods are created (by humans to explain their world) and symbolic of aspects of Earth and humanity be a Pantheist belief? As in they aren't literal.

Yes, that’s the Pantheist view.

---Are there Pantheists that believe in reincarnation and things like that? Or can you not be a pantheist and believe in those things?

You can be Pantheist and believe either way, though most Pantheists are skeptical of ideas of an afterlife or reincarnation.

---What do Pagan Pantheists believe--when it comes to deity?

We believe what you described above at ***.

--Can Pantheists have altars in the sense of attuning to Earth. As in not to do magick or honor Gods in a Pagan sense, but to honor the earth?

Certainly! That would fit nicely in both Naturalistic Paganism and Pantheism. That’s the kind of stuff Naturalistic Pagans do.

Blessed be-

[IvyWitch]

I am a pantheist as well, but not a theistic pantheist, I prefer natural or scientific pantheist.

[cheddarsox]

I am a pantheist too.

I don't use the term "God" because that implies (to most people) a being or entity. I believe that all that is, is the Divine.

I have altars, rituals, worship, but I worship the ALL.

I do so because worship is my authentic and natural response to my awareness of WHAT IS. Not because my religion or a deity require it of me.

My practice is a response to my awareness.

It is hard to say what "most" pantheists believe, there is much diversity.

I find religious behavior, altars, ritual, prayer, worship to be an asset to my life, so I include them in my pantheism. Many pantheists find those practices to be useless at best, and foolish and detrimental, at worst. So...if you go shopping for a pantheist group, you might want to poke around a bit first and find out what their style and approach is, and understand that there are other options out there if you don't find a good fit on your first try.

My impression is that deities are human metaphores and interpretations of a larger truth, but I do not claim to know for sure. I have not had personal experiences with deities, so I will not claim to understand exactly what they are. I do not doubt the sincerity and experience of those who work with deities. I am agnostic about other people's religions, and try to only comment on that which I have practiced myself.

I have a yahoo group...http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ardentpantheism/
for folks who practice pantheism as a "religion" and spiritual discipline. If you are of that persuasion...drop in.

cheddar

[Agaliha]

Thanks everyone!
After reading the answers I think I finally figured out my place-- Pantheism.
Seriously. I'm going to read more about it, but I fit right in-- it's only the matter of fine tuning it all.
:dancy:

I've been struggling with theism in all it's forms and I just can't seem to see the gods as literal and individual like theists do. It doesn't matter if it's monotheism or poly-- I've tried over 10 faiths and nothing seemed right.

I'm agnostic. I see the gods that we know of now (from all pantheons) as created and symbolic (not literal, alive and all of that), as ways to explain Earth in all it's aspects (as well as aspects of humanity). I think there is a energy that is everywhere and that energy is so grand that it can only be explained by naming and creating deities to explain it. But I don't know exactly what that energy is, hence the agnostic angle.
Which now I know is a Pantheist view. Yay!

I am glad to know a Pantheist can believe in reincarnation, because well I do. It's one of the only things I've truly kept and believe all this time.

And I'm happy that I can still keep my altar! All I put on there are things that are part of the Earth and represent aspects of Earth. Right now I have tons of sea and ocean things on there because I've been drawn to and obsessed with it lately (clicky to see pics (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=2580082&postcount=527)). Before I've had tons of autumn decorations --my favorite season, then Earthy things...I have themes.
But I don't do any magick on it (besides lighting candles and such if you can call that magick) or have any deities on it (though if I did, they be there as symbolic of a value, idea, feeling, concept etc).

I do find various "religious" things appealing. I like rituals and altars and all of that. I think I'll look more into the Agnostic- Natural end of the spectrum.

I'll look into some groups to join (online) and keep reading. My library don't have any pantheist books ( :( ) so I'll have to read about it all online.

ETA: Some more questions, lol.
--I can't find any sites that has detailed info about what a typical Pantheist ritual would be like. I know solsitces and equinoxes (and seasons) are honored, but how? What do they do, say? Is it like a Pagan ritual in format? For solitaty Pantheists that is, not groups.
---And when doing any of these rituals (or prayer if you do) do any Pantheist ever use the names of various deities for a symbolic reason-- as a way of focusing on a certian energy that that name carries?
---Of the Pantheists here that do have altars what do you put on them?
---How to Pantheists see coinsidences and synchronicity?
Because I've experienced some weird Synchronic things...
---would this list of Pantheist Symbols be true for most Pantheists? (List here: http://www.geocities.com/doctor_drescher/symbols.html)
Do Panthesits use symbolism a lot? (spring flowers for renewal, water for purity, things like that)

Also I thought this was interesting, I found this on a Pantheist site: 1) There are no gods, demons or other-worldly deities who can only be reached through devotion and death. There is the Universe, which creates and destroys all life. The Universe is all-encompassing, and it has no beginning or end. It was never created, nor shall it ever die. It has always existed and always shall.
http://www.geocities.com/doctor_drescher/fundamentals.html

Why I say it's interesting is because that basically describes Shiva in Hinduism! Especially Shiva Nataraj who dances the universe into creation, creating and destroying.
What first got me to come back to MW after I said to hell with everything was reading about Shiva Nataraj. I think it was that concept that Shiva held that drew me in and here I find it in Pantheism. Pretty cool.

[cheddarsox]

ETA: Some more questions, lol.
--I can't find any sites that has detailed info about what a typical Pantheist ritual would be like.

I am not sure that at this point there is a "typical" pantheist ritual. I don't know that we are that organized yet.

At various places on my group and on Mystic wicks and B'net pantheist areas, I have posted and/or described some pan rituals that I have done.

I like to write my own. I'm working on getting more of the rituals and prayers written down so they can be shared. I believe there are some rituals in the files section of equinox's yahoo group, and on his web site. He is way organized!

I do think it is important that pans who practice ritual develop some of their own stuff, and that we don't just borrow forms from other trads. I think it is good for each to have their own flavor.



I know solsitces and equinoxes (and seasons) are honored, but how? What do they do, say? Is it like a Pagan ritual in format? For solitaty Pantheists that is, not groups.

I do not honor the solstice or the season, I observe it. I honor that WHICH IS, and WHICH CAUSES ALL TO BE.

It is very important to me, as a pan, that I am clear about what I am doing. I have often been accused of worshipping trees and bunnies, or told that I think my breakfast is god.

This is a misunderstanding of pantheism. It is not the worship of bits and pieces, or just the nice stuff, it is the acknowledgment of the ALL. The grand complexity of all that is, and the grand manner in which it all interacts.

I observe the solar events because they are times that highlite the interaction for me. The sun is 93 million miles away, but my very life depends on it. On the last solstice, we sat in the dark,in cold silence for 12 minutes. That is how long it takes the light from the sun to reach the earth.


---And when doing any of these rituals (or prayer if you do) do any Pantheist ever use the names of various deities for a symbolic reason-- as a way of focusing on a certian energy that that name carries?


Personally, I avoid the use of deity even as metaphore. There are lots of religions for folks who desire, need, or know a deity. Pantheism is different.

I think it is very easy for us to lose sight of the fact that the deity is a metaphore, and begin to focus more on the symbol than what it represents. I think that if pantheists begin to use deities, even metaphorically, it will be no different from many other religions, then what would be the point?

Not having a deity forces me to always deal with WHAT IS. No buffer, no distraction. That is one of the things I cherish most about my faith.


---Of the Pantheists here that do have altars what do you put on them?

Everyone creates altars, it is hardwired into the human psyche. Some people don't call them that, but I have never met a person who didn't have some place where they stashed stuff that was meaningful to them. Most people have a lot of altars.

An altar is a place where we put things that remind us of what is true, and of ourselves when we are at our best.

I update my altars regularly depending on the season, holiday or what is going on in my life and my family's life. Creating altars is something I LOVE. The time I spend thinking about WHAT IS, and how to represent it, and connect with it is some of my best spritiual meditative time. The process of dressing an altar is a really rewarding ritual for me.

Currently, one of my altars has a shrine made out of "Little Debbie" snack cake boxes on it, and the other has my big quartz singing bowl, the coat of arms I created with my "symbolism" class, and all the awards my kids brought home from school last week.

---How to Pantheists see coinsidences and synchronicity?
Because I've experienced some weird Synchronic things..

They are like eclipses. There will always be places where different cycles intersect and create powerful experiences. These experiences are powerful because they remind us that we are part of something larger and more complex than we can understand.I feel honored to be part of something so amazing.

---would this list of Pantheist Symbols be true for most Pantheists? (List here: http://www.geocities.com/doctor_drescher/symbols.html)
Do Panthesits use symbolism a lot? (spring flowers for renewal, water for purity, things like that)

I don't know of any specific set of pantheist symbols. I have developed some of my own. I always wear a meteorite around my neck. It reminds me that the details of my life, are just a part of something bigger, and that what happens "out there" affects my life here...maybe the other way round as well!

I try not to go overboard on the symbolism, since pantheism is about honoring what is, I do try to "keep things real". I try to keep my symbols fairly direct, and not many times removed or esoteric.

cheddar

Also I thought this was interesting, I found this on a Pantheist site:
Why I say it's interesting is because that basically describes Shiva in Hinduism! Especially Shiva Nataraj who dances the universe into creation, creating and destroying.
What first got me to come back to MW after I said to hell with everything was reading about Shiva Nataraj. I think it was that concept that Shiva held that drew me in and here I find it in Pantheism. Pretty cool.



:ballonsmi

[Agaliha]

Thanks for replying Cheddar! It's helped :)
I'm just trying to figure it all out, lol. I still got tons of reading to do.

I was looking though beliefnet's pantheist area-- would you happen to be "Cheesefeet" ? (I noticed the cheese and cheddar similarities).

[cheddarsox]

yeah, that's me. It's my old screename...but someone else "borrowed" it (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery), so I switched to cheddarsox.

But on some forums that I have been part of a long time...I keep it.

hope to see you around the boards.

cheddar

[Agaliha]

I found this in the Pantheist.net FAQ:

What is the relationship between paganism and pantheism?

There are many points in common between paganism and Pantheism. Most pagans say they are pantheists. They too revere Nature and the Universe and regard them as in some sense unified wholes. They too celebrate solstices, equinoxes and other natural passages. They too have a strong environmental ethic and a deep love of nature.
Many pagans are straight pantheists, using polytheism as a metaphoric way of expressing their reverence for the Universe and Nature. Some people feel the need for symbols and personages to mediate their relationship with nature and the cosmos. There is no harm in this, as long as the symbols help us to connect to Reality and do not block or distort our view of Reality.
Pantheists can also relate directly to the universe and to nature, without the need for any intermediary symbols or deities. The cosmos manifests itself directly to us in nature and the night sky.
However, many pagans are literal polytheists, and believe in magic, reincarnation, and the irrational. Modern pantheists are not polytheists, and do not believe in magic, or disembodied spirits. Most of them do not believe in a personal afterlife, whether through reincarnation or transport to any kind of non-material "heaven."
If by the irrational, people mean a strongly emotional and aesthetic approach to nature and the universe, then we support it just as strongly as any pagan. But we see no conflict in principle between this and science, reason or logic. The findings of science have often been abused to harm nature and humans, but to correct the harm we need better, more ethical science and better public control over science and technology - not an abandonment of science. Without science we would have no hope of saving the earth, and no hope of understanding the universe we live in.
However, if the irrational means abandonment of science, reason and logic, then pantheists reject it. Once these are abandoned, all beliefs are equally valid - including racism, fascism and the wildest superstitions.

*

That was my thinking about having deities on altars and other things-- as a way to connect to the vastness of the Universe and Nature, hone in on certian aspects and energies.
There are many deities that I am drawn to because of their meanings, symbolism and all that-- not because I believe them real and literal.
For example, Seshet for being a female scribe in a all male occupation, her connection to books and libraries-- she reminds me of all female librarians in the world-- something that I plan on being career-wise.
Hestia because she is a home goddess and I am very much a home-body.
Bast for my love of cats.
Things like that.
Plus I'm just interested in mythology and theology in general so I enjoy learning about them.
Anyway, yeah. I'll see how all this goes with me.
I seem to have this need to have some sort of personifying aspect in my faith. Perhaps it's because I'm so used to that theistic way of thinking.
Heh. _inabox_ Anyone else have this problem?

[cheddarsox]

I studied the Kemetic faith for awhile, though I must admit I was more drawn to the male presentations of the Netjer...I guess I am hopelessly heterosexual...even when it come to religion.

I am easily distracted by symbols and stories, so I keep them to a minimum in my practice. I've learned my own limitations.

I am a librarian! and a science teacher. What type of library work do you hope to do?

cheddar

[Agaliha]

Awesome-- a librarian!
I'd like to work in a library-- public or school. Not too picky.
I've been going to libraries since I was a child and I go sometimes 1-3 times a week still. I check out billions of books. I love libraries, they're like churches to me, lol. I'm going to community college now, then eventually I'm planning on tranfering, getting a BA then applying to the Masters of Library Science program.

As for using symbols and deites as such, I'm going to see how it goes and see if I get too lost in it all...I don't want it all to cloud everything.

Last night I sat down and studied all my shells-- like really looked at them and it was amazing. All the detials, shapes and things. Those were the things I was missing before. I also remembered how the shape of shells echoes the shape of other things in the Universe and I admired the beauty of it all.
:) I want to focus on those things more than symbols and things.

ETA: I've seen some Pantheist sites that name Earth as Gaia. Seems like a personification to me.

[equinox2]

Agaliha wrote:
Last night I sat down and studied all my shells-- like really looked at them and it was amazing. All the detials, shapes and things. Those were the things I was missing before. I also remembered how the shape of shells echoes the shape of other things in the Universe and I admired the beauty of it all.
I want to focus on those things more than symbols and things.

Awesome! It is these little connections with the Universe that make me love my spirituality. I've found that the deeper I scientifically know things, the more vivid every aspect of the universe becomes.

ETA: I've seen some Pantheist sites that name Earth as Gaia. Seems like a personification to me.

I agree. It's a balance I think. I agree with the Pantheist statement you highlighted three posts ago too.

I've also found that connecting to a community is an important part of any sustainable spirituality. Online is OK and will get one by, but face to face is even better. The UU church works for me (not for all), and the WPM helps too (as do yahoo groups).

Love and Light-

[Agaliha]

Awesome! It is these little connections with the Universe that make me love my spirituality. I've found that the deeper I scientifically know things, the more vivid every aspect of the universe becomes.
I agree. It's a balance I think. I agree with the Pantheist statement you highlighted three posts ago too.

Yup, I agree too :)

I've also found that connecting to a community is an important part of any sustainable spirituality. Online is OK and will get one by, but face to face is even better. The UU church works for me (not for all), and the WPM helps too (as do yahoo groups).


So far I joined 5 Pantheist groups on Yahoo (name: Ruby_Rose_Petals). I really want to join an actual group, but I have to find one that I can get to easily (I don't drive and have to take 2 buses to really get anywhere). I'm pretty sure there's a UU church in the city though.



Just out of curiousity do you do elemental meditations and things like that?
Site: http://www.asiya.org/index2.html (on the left side click on :four elements" and the "becoming one with..." things.
Seems like a nice way to connect to Earth and the Divine.

I found a pantheist version too! http://www.pansocal.org/elements.html :)


Oh and does anyone have any book reccommendations of things for the Pantheist path-- anything from science to the more "religious"?

[equinox2]

Agaliha wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's a UU church in the city though.

you can look up the local UU church here:


http://www.uua.org/CONG/index.php


Just out of curiousity do you do elemental meditations and things like that?
.....
Seems like a nice way to connect to Earth and the Divine.

I found a pantheist version too! http://www.pansocal.org/elements.html .

Yes - now and then. They are nice. I have some daily spiritual practices too, and a stone circle I built in my yard for rituals. You can see pictures of it on the Naturalistic Paganism Yahoo group site under "photos" - I also have (under "files") a set of Traditions for each Sabbat - that as some rituals. (Cheddar mentioned that earlier - thanks!).


That Pantheist version I got a while ago in my issue of the WPM magazine. I've kept it since then for occaisional use.


Oh and does anyone have any book reccommendations of things for the Pantheist path-- anything from science to the more "religious"?

Another good resource for celebrations & traditions for the Sabbats is "In Nature's Honor" by Pat montley. It is from a Naturalistic perspective, which is nice.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155896486X/ref=sr_11_1/002-1527253-8509660?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Have fun!

[Mishka]

From what I've read, pantheism is the closest label or title I can give to my out-of-the-box spirituality.

But there's a great deal of emphasis on Gaia and environmental rights. While I do believe in taking care of the planet and nature, I won't be joining Greenpeace anytime soon. (no insult intended)

So, once again, will I find myself the exception and at the outer circle? I can live with it if there's a certain amount of acceptance that those who consider themselves a pantheist do still come in carnivorous packages.

[cheddarsox]

This is the same reason I avoided using the term pantheist for so long. I got tired of the Gaia, eco good, people bad theology that I kept running into. It seemed folks replaced the Christian "God" with the feminine "Gaia" and heaped on another scoop of guilt for good measure.

I have been very relieved to find that there are pockets of pantheism that recognize that ALL is Divine, and the Divine is ALL, yup, even men and people, and omnivores, and the whole shebang.

I worship, WHAT IS, not some PC concoction of "wouldn't it be nice if....". I deal with WHAT IS.

Now, before eco types come to bang me on the head with statistics...yes, I realize that we need to pay attention to what is going on if we want our species to keep on keeping on.

but what passes for pantheism is many folds, is really humanism...people pontificate about human guilt, human stupidity, humans needing to save the earth...cough, cough...as if we have the power to destroy it? As if we are not only so self aware that we really understand the complex system of which we are a part, but we have so much power/control/free will as a species that we can radically change our behavior. People have set themselves up as gods. Many pans dont' recognize the universe as divine, they use that as a cover for their seeing themselves as the divine savior of all....or...the flip side, the big bad destroyer of all that was completely good, wholesome, nice and peaceful before we yucky humans messed it up.

It is the same dualistic stuff that pops up under many other faiths...except for pans it comes off as "Everything is Divine...except....(laundry list to follow.)"

I think those that practice ecotheism should say so, as should humanists and anti-humanists. But pantheism...is something else again...

I'll be surprised if they let me on these boards tomorrow...


oh welll....it has been a hard week, and I am tired of always being the nice guy

cheddar

[cheddarsox]

Over the past two weeks I have met in several different places, people who are looking for pantheist religion. People who are asking for it. So, I am shamelessly plugging a yahoo group I started for those why like ritual, prayer, spiritual practice...in the context of pantheism.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ardentpantheism/

And please, if you check us out...check in!
A discussion group is as good as people make it. I regulary post my own thoughts, but not because I think they are so profound...just hoping to get some conversation flowing.

We can make this group what we need it to be!

see you there.

cheddar

[Agaliha]

The summer solstice is tomorrow.
What are you doing?
How do Panthiests celebrate the solstices?
I have no idea what to do! Yikes.

[Bone]

I am a pantheist and I am celebrating by rising early to see the sunrise... I'm going for a day-hike on the hill behind my house, I'm fasting, I plan on praying frequently as I hike, etc...

[Agaliha]

Ah, sounds cool. Thanks for sharing. I just discovered Pantheism so I'm still trying to figure out and work everything out :)

[cheddarsox]

I observe the solstices much like I observe other days in pantheism...I see where my awareness leads me. I try to check in to my awareness of my faith, and what it means in my everyday life, and respond accordingly. Sometimes that is with solemn ritual, sometimes with a bang up celebration, sometimes with a quiet private time of prayer or making a vow.

This year...solstice was quiet observance and a vow. The dry, dry weather did not allow for a bon fire. I observed sunrise and sunset, and spent time walking on the property, and attending to the many needs at work and in my family. I felt very connected.

cheddar

[Eleisawolf]

Don't worry... you're not the only pantheist that is not Greenpeace/ALF fodder.

To my view, pantheism means seeing the divine in nature AS IT IS. And nature is not pretty, it's not conservationist much of the time, it's not all sweetness and light and perfection. Nature is what it is and it's just as wrong to think it's perfect as it is to think it's demonic.

A true pantheist, IMHO, would recognize that and work with nature as it is, including human nature. They would not try to create nature in their own perfect image.

I do believe in Gaia (the Gaia hypothesis is quite compelling), or even more what I call the Great Mystery (because it involves so much more than just our little planet), but I'm not so naive as to think we humans can do anything that could destroy hir or even throw hir seriously off balance. If we got close, ze'd kick us like a bad cold and start working on something better. Living in a way that honors that is important and being connected with all that is is imperative. THAT's what will allow us to live in harmony. But trying to shape nature into the vision that we impose on it is arrogant and will likely reward us with the shock of failure. Now, personally I work to do a little conserving much of the time, because I personally don't want to be kicked off. But our kind of life isn't the only kind there is and if we go because of our arrogance one way or the other, there will always be something to follow after and keep Life going.

My friend has a great way of looking at it. He takes care of his little corner of the world and tries to live carefully and connectedly where HE is. If we each take care of our little corner, we'll be fine. But the Great Mystery will always be fine. Ze'll just throw off what harms hir, and ze'll go on. Always. Recycle, reduce, reuse, and relate. But Great Mystery always resists being shaped in the image of humanity.

Peace

[Marcasite]

wow, I'm a pantheist. This is what I have believed all along though I never had a name for it.
I do follow pagan customs/holidays with Andrew who is Wiccan, but I always believed that there were no gods/godesses, but that everything is nature and nature is the thing/being/energy which I felt was divine...
I didn't know anyone else had this belief though! This is really exciting...

[cheddarsox]

wow, I'm a pantheist. This is what I have believed all along though I never had a name for it.
I do follow pagan customs/holidays with Andrew who is Wiccan, but I always believed that there were no gods/godesses, but that everything is nature and nature is the thing/being/energy which I felt was divine...
I didn't know anyone else had this belief though! This is really exciting...

Welcome!

I too felt excited when I discovered that what I believed had a name, a history and lots of other people whom I enjoyed and respected who shared similar beliefs.

I have created a yahoo group for pantheists who are interested in practicing their faith as a religion with holidays, rituals, prayers etc.

I understand that is not everyone's style or interest, but the practice of my faith has transformed my life, and provides a framework for my daily activities.

If you are interested check it out at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ardentpantheism/

many online pantheist groups cater to a drier variety of pantheism, so I started a group where we can wear our hearts on our sleeves without having to respond to the "tut tuts" all the time.

I'm a scientist...which is exactly why I can't discount the mystical experiences I've had in my life. I use my religion/spirituality as an arena to explore those parts of life and my psyche.

cheddar

[omar]

Well that makes about 40 of the "P" people here. Anyone else?

[Windsmith]

I have created a yahoo group for pantheists who are interested in practicing their faith as a religion with holidays, rituals, prayers etc.

I understand that is not everyone's style or interest, but the practice of my faith has transformed my life, and provides a framework for my daily activities.

If you are interested check it out at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ardentpantheism/It's an excellent group. I highly recommend it.

[cheddarsox]

It's an excellent group. I highly recommend it.


....blush...
thank you windsmith

[Marcasite]

I will be certain to check it out. I keep making yahoo! IDs for joining such groups and then forgetting them :P

[Eleisawolf]

I, also, will check it out.

Cheddarsox, do you happen to go by Cheesefeet on Beliefnet? I haven't hung out at the Pantheism board there, as they tend to be rather quiet most of the time... spend most of my time on the evolution/creationism board and the Native American board... haven't been there lately, but was just curious.

Expect Eleisabelle, my Yahoo moniker, at your group. :)

Peace

[Eleisawolf]

Sorry... one more OT post. Marcasite, were you the one who posted the wonderful snow picture a few weeks ago? I can't compete with the depth you had, but we got a fair bit in the southeastern Colorado area...

Take a look!
72402

72403

That fence is about 2.5 feet tall. :santasmil

Apologies for OT. We now return you to your Pantheism thread.

:boing:

Nice to have found you here. Now that I have found you, I have confirmed that I really am, truly, a Pantheist. It is nice to put a name to what I've known all these years...

Peace

[cheddarsox]

I, also, will check it out.

Cheddarsox, do you happen to go by Cheesefeet on Beliefnet? I haven't hung out at the Pantheism board there, as they tend to be rather quiet most of the time... spend most of my time on the evolution/creationism board and the Native American board... haven't been there lately, but was just curious.

Expect Eleisabelle, my Yahoo moniker, at your group. :)

Peace

Yes, that's me. I have several on-line monikers...not with an intent to deceive, mostly just due to when I signed on at different sites. I joined yahoo many years before we had a home computer, as eiere, and then was off it for a long time. When we got hooked up at home, I originally went by cheesefeet, but after awhile it was "borrowed" by a dude in germany...so I have been cheddarsox on all sites I signed onto since then.

I'm glad that you'll be checking out the group. Please read past messages if you have the time...and please ask questions post thougts etc. I never want it to become me pontificating to the rest.

cheddar

[Windsmith]

I can't compete with the depth you had, but we got a fair bit in the southeastern Colorado area...Those are lovely! And I consider them perfectly on-topic in a Pantheism thread!

[Eleisawolf]

Those are lovely! And I consider them perfectly on-topic in a Pantheism thread!


Thanks.

:santasmil

And I just got an idea for a new thread.

:idea:
:hahugh:

Keep an eye out...