Deity Origin Question?

[RubyRose]

What does it mean, when a deity's origin is listed as Pan-Celtic

Does that mean that he/she is known throughout the Celtic Countries (ie. Wales, Scottish, Ireland, Brittain, Gaul etc)

Bendithion,
RubyRose

[Seren_]

What does it mean, when a deity's origin is listed as Pan-Celtic

Does that mean that he/she is known throughout the Celtic Countries (ie. Wales, Scottish, Ireland, Brittain, Gaul etc)

Bendithion,
RubyRose

Basically yes - like Lugh for example. Also found as Llew Llaw Gyffes in the Welsh Mabinogion, and as Lugos in Gaul. It's also thought he lends his name to places like Carlisle in England (but it could just be a linguistic link to an element of his name, which is "bright" or "shining", I think). Some people therefore regard these as the same deity, under slightly different names and guises.

You do need to be careful with the idea, though. Some might be called a "pan-Celtic" deity - like Cernunnos, say, but really his name only appears once on an inscription in Gaul. The name appears with a horned god type deity (which is what his name means), so it has been applied to other deities that look like him throughout the Celtic world - which assumes his "pan-Celticness". It only really refers to the widespread image of the horned god, not the name which is applied more as a title.

[RubyRose]

Basically yes - like Lugh for example. Also found as Llew Llaw Gyffes in the Welsh Mabinogion, and as Lugos in Gaul. It's also thought he lends his name to places like Carlisle in England (but it could just be a linguistic link to an element of his name, which is "bright" or "shining", I think). Some people therefore regard these as the same deity, under slightly different names and guises.

You do need to be careful with the idea, though. Some might be called a "pan-Celtic" deity - like Cernunnos, say, but really his name only appears once on an inscription in Gaul. The name appears with a horned god type deity (which is what his name means), so it has been applied to other deities that look like him throughout the Celtic world - which assumes his "pan-Celticness". It only really refers to the widespread image of the horned god, not the name which is applied more as a title.

Interesting, so its really a matter of sorting out the real from the unreal. In the case of Cernunnos, from the sources I'm looking at, currently, say he is Pan-Celtic, though he is the consort of Cerridwen, who is Welsh...

I suppose its also a matter of how you view each particular Celtic/Pan-Celtic deity.

Bendithion,
RubyRose

[Seren_]

Interesting, so its really a matter of sorting out the real from the unreal. In the case of Cernunnos, from the sources I'm looking at, currently, say he is Pan-Celtic, though he is the consort of Cerridwen, who is Welsh...


As you say, it's a matter of viewpoint. I would say that based on my knowledge (and hopefully without offending anyone here) that Cernunnos being linked with Ceridwen is a more modern interpretation, rather than a historical one (ie the relationship isn't indicated by mythology or archaeology). Of course, I could be wrong...

I'm sure this has been posted on the forum somewhere before, but:
What we don't know about the ancient celts (http://www.conjure.com/whocelts.html)

[RubyRose]

As you say, it's a matter of viewpoint. I would say that based on my knowledge (and hopefully without offending anyone here) that Cernunnos being linked with Ceridwen is a more modern interpretation, rather than a historical one (ie the relationship isn't indicated by mythology or archaeology). Of course, I could be wrong...

I'm sure this has been posted on the forum somewhere before, but:
What we don't know about the ancient celts (http://www.conjure.com/whocelts.html)

Ah okay, I guess I should really start to delve more into Celtic/Welsh Mythology and History instead of just skimming the surface.

Thanks for the link, I'll peruse it a little later.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

You do need to be careful with the idea, though. Some might be called a "pan-Celtic" deity - like Cernunnos, say, but really his name only appears once on an inscription in Gaul. The name appears with a horned god type deity (which is what his name means), so it has been applied to other deities that look like him throughout the Celtic world - which assumes his "pan-Celticness". It only really refers to the widespread image of the horned god, not the name which is applied more as a title.

Just interjecting something a bit off topic here, but I thought that Cernunnos actually meant antlered god, as oppossed to horned god.

[Seren_]

Just interjecting something a bit off topic here, but I thought that Cernunnos actually meant antlered god, as oppossed to horned god.


:hmmmmm: Most sources I've seen translate as horned (the link I gave offered "peaked" as well). I'm no linguist though.

Technically he is antlered, but as a deity type is often grouped with other horned typed beasts (Miranda Green does, anyway). She defines them as antlered-horned and non-antlered horned types - like in Britain you get a lot of bull-horned depictions rather than antlers.