I want every one's opion on this....

[bloodstone20]

I was thinking about this on my vacation when there was a storm system off the coast. So, what's everyones answer? And why?

[Tigerwallah]

It's only rain, right? Not like you're asking for a hurricane.

[Earth Walker]

And as long as the Pagans don't get wet, only the Anti-Pagans.:D


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D

[bloodstone20]

but what if they meant pagan as in devil-worshippers that partook in human sacrifices, had proof, and knew the difference between them and us, all of us, including whoever is on the bourd that is a Satanist?

[SpikesPet5150]

Bloodstone--If they knew the difference between a Pagan and Satanist, they wouldn't call them Pagans.
I disagree, because they have a right to protest anything they want to, just as we have a right to protest. I don't think it's fair to hinder anyones right to PEACEFULLY protest.. if they're causing a huge riot and are being general annoyances, then heck yeah, let it rain.
~Bree

[Earth Walker]

Pagans are not satanists!, and satanists are not Pagans!


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D

[bloodstone20]

lets not start THAT over again.

[bloodstone20]

Originally posted by Mystique
Pagans are not satanists!, and satanists are not Pagans!


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D
how do you define pagan?

[Earth Walker]

Pagans do not believe in the "devil."
The "devil", poor thing, is a christian invention, and was
patterned after the pagan Pan.


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D

[bloodstone20]

that is the only criteria for pagan?

[bloodstone20]

a lil off topic. Back to the parade!!

[MistOfTheSea86]

We had a very big dicussion on Satanism and Paganism somewhere inthe Political Pagan...

[flar7]

Satans been around longer than Christianity. I mean, he is dang near at the begining. Now, I agree Christ is his enemy, sorta.

Sorry off topic.

[Twig]

Because to do that (even if they didn't know) would demonstrate that you are using your power needlessly for a project that has no real focus, other than to put them in a foul mood and possibably cement their opinion a little better.(as I see it)

No.....let em' go. The energy could be better spent in another way. Perhaps, saying a Blessing for something and praying that they get Wisdom. ;)

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Tarot Collector]

To the intended question, I voted no, but only because it seems quite a huge use of energy to call up a rainstorm for such a thing.

Plus, overall I think anti-Pagan parades/demonstrations do more to promote Paganism through sheer publicity than damage it in any way. Just think of all the passers-by that never knew there was an alternative! I can almost hear the thoughts....

"Paganism? Hmmmm.... You mean there are other ways to think? I'll have to check that out!!!"


And shucks, why not get the permits and organise a Pro-Paganism/Right to Worship parade right on its coat-tails.

[Anwyn]

First of all, I am a big fan of rain. I will try to coax clouds over my house just for the sheer joy of water falling from the sky. What can I say, I'm a Pisces.

Secondly, I am against any sort of anti-anything parade, especially if it is anti-someone-else's-First-Ammendment-Rights. I am in full support of voting one's own personal beliefs, of being politically active beyond voting, of protesting something which directly affects you or your family and which you believe is dangerous and wrong, and even of preaching against other groups within your own circle of like-minded people. "An it harm none, do what you wilt."

However, I think that parades and such are harmful, in that they make the opposing group (the anti-Pagans, in this case) publically seem to be more powerful than the group that they are against, thus giving nerve to those who would otherwise have kept silent, and/or kept their hands to themselves. It imboldens people who would have otherwise minded their own business, to put it another way. So if a little rain will help deter the paraders, then so be it. I mean, if I knew the meeting place and time of my local KKK group, I would rain on them, too!

Thirdly, a little rain never hurt anyone. I would have to be pretty pissed off to get anything more than a little rain storm, anyway, and I don't like messing with weather formations more than I have to. So if makes the paint on their signs run, or makes them look or feel foolish, or--better yet!--makes them remember Mother Earth, than I am all for it!

~Anwyn

[ladyrowan]

Originally posted by Twig
Because to do that (even if they didn't know) would demonstrate that you are using your power needlessly for a project that has no real focus, other than to put them in a foul mood and possibably cement their opinion a little better.(as I see it)

No.....let em' go. The energy could be better spent in another way. Perhaps, saying a Blessing for something and praying that they get Wisdom. ;)

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

Well said Twig.
I'm not convinced that anyone can influence the weather to suit themselves anyway. But if you could, surely it would be better to ask for rain in an area that really needed it - many lives could be saved in Africa, for instance, if they had more rain.
THAT would be a great way to show that Pagans aren't the 'lost souls' they think we are.

BB

[bloodstone20]

anyone want to help me try? Its the new moon, in leo, so we could start a thingy to help those in Africa that need it. THe energies are aganist us, tho. O well, i m gonna send some energy that way, for whatever good it can do. Not just rain.

[quixote]

I agree wholehertedly with twig and ladyrowan. besides, is it worth the karma?
BB, quixote

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by Mystique
And as long as the Pagans don't get wet, only the Anti-Pagans.:D




I second that!! Motion carried! ;)

BB

Rae )0(

[bloodstone20]

Wouldn't the karma be good if you nurture the earth?

[Tigerwallah]

Originally posted by quixote
I agree wholehertedly with twig and ladyrowan. besides, is it worth the karma?
BB, quixote

So, let it rain on me. I think the karma would be a pleasure to repay.

[LunaSkyeFire]

I say just let 'em go and do their little protest thing and if they look stupid in the process....oh well, sucks to be them.
:p :p :p

[bloodstone20]

what if they start to riot at a metaphysical store

[bloodstone20]

magister templi, or however you spell it. creeped up on me.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
what if they start to riot at a metaphysical store

Kill them all and let the Goddess sort them out.;) hehehe:D 8O


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D

[bloodstone20]

would not they run fleeing form me. I scare most of the ppl who aren't pagan in the school that know I am.

[quixote]

Originally posted by Mystique


Kill them all and let the Goddess sort them out.;) hehehe:D 8O


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D
you seem to be kidding, but it still seems kind of alarming

[gunner]

"Kill them all and let the Goddess sort them out."

i was asked to moderate this, it's an old military joke, one i've used myself though from my point of view it's "let the gods sort them out". it's not a real threat and i'd say take it as intended, a joke and let it go, no harm was meant by the poster.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by quixote

you seem to be kidding, but it still seems kind of alarming

I winked...;) ;) ;)

[quixote]

ok, Ive been online too long getting tired and over sensitive. back online next week - well rested. goodnight and BB, quixote

[bloodstone20]

you laughed as well. It was kinda scary.

[gunner]

"I winked..."

as i said, take it as she intended it, a joke.

[bloodstone20]

after it was stated it was. That doesn't mean i didn't feel anything towards it before, and that i won't post it. I'm sorry that I wasn't moved to a different feeling by the wink. If i say, death to all the whoever and wink, jokinly, will not some ppl not take it as a joke?
If you intend something as a joke, its your fault that others took it wrongly. A j/j or just joking would have been good enough for me in the post. It was not there, so i thought she was serious.

[gunner]

you asked for a moderator, i looked at the post and moderated, let it go.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
after it was stated it was. That doesn't mean i didn't feel anything towards it before, and that i won't post it. I'm sorry that I wasn't moved to a different feeling by the wink. If i say, death to all the whoever and wink, jokinly, will not some ppl not take it as a joke?
If you intend something as a joke, its your fault that others took it wrongly. A j/j or just joking would have been good enough for me in the post. It was not there, so i thought she was serious.

Moi? Serious?:eek: :rolleyes: :p


Only my Cat understands me.
************************
There are only two times I feel stress.
Day :D and Night :D

[bloodstone20]

okie-dokie. just stating what i thought of it, sorry if i went over any lines. now, back to the parade.

[bloodstone20]

I just did my ritual for africa.

[ladyrowan]

Originally posted by bloodstone20
I just did my ritual for africa.

Thats nice. Lets just hope they weren't already in the middle of freak weather conditions, floods etc.

BB

[bloodstone20]

I didn't do it for rain. I have a spirit shell, one i use for things to be empowered. It is strongly empowered, beileve you me. Anyway, I put on a blue stone for water, and oak leaf for air, a red stone for fire, and some incense for air, covered it in holy water, and then asked for the energy to be sent to africa in water, for change for the better, in air, for speed and intelect, and such better education, for fire, for loyalty and courage, for political stability, for earth, the give them the strength they need, and finally spirit, to carry it. I raised energy for it, then put it in the water, along with the energy of the other things i use for magick,(the stones, leaf, and incense), then let the water go out the window and into the earth.

[Sighing_Softly]

I thought ppl might be interested in knowing where that contraversial phrase came from... We know who the Cathers were, dont we? They were like a cross between pagans and xtians basicly, and the catholic church tried their hardest to eradicate them all.. In thier last stronghold, there were 30 000 cathers most of them women and children and the french or was it spanish army had been sent to wipe them out. They layed siege to the city but werent sure what to do, as there were non-cathers in there as well. "Kill them all, and let God find his own" Came the order from the general... its said that massacre 2 teenage girls were found terified in a shelter, and given a chikcen to kill. But they wouldnt (cathers were vegies) and so they were kiled too, that was a sure sign of their religion. Anyway... there you go.

[Nuah]

i think its safe to say that even if there was an anti-pagan parade they wouldnt convince any pagans that what they do is wrong, so why worry?

and weather has a mind of its own, all of us here know that very well as pagans and wiccans and such the like. even if you did a spell, chances are it wouldnt be carried out because the will of weather could be stronger than the casters will and they would get a swift karma kick in da bootie =)

Nuah:rolleyes: :D

[Nuah]

the most we could do is influence the weather which is already on the way :) whichever weather it is lol

Nuah

[Myst]

lol reread the name of the poll...

ethnical...

[Nuah]

i excluded that word because i dont know what it means lol

[Tigerwallah]

Ethical

[bloodstone20]

probably. Sometimes i show a streak of bad blood from my dad, and am not the all knowing all wise teenager, but thats not very often, thank the Goddess. ;).

[Tigerwallah]

ROTFL!!!!!! 8O

[Raynewitch]

I want it to rain ALL the time! I love the rain and feel honoured to have it fall on me :D So Id want it to rain on EVERYONE not just the anti-pagans!!!!!

:elf: Rayne :elf:

The name says it all :D

[Xois]

where is the "weather magick is hooey" choice? ;)

I don't personally believe in weather magic, so there is no problem with ethics as far as I can see

[bloodstone20]

i'll add it if i can. i'm not sure if i can tho.

[bloodstone20]

Thats a stinky rule. How come i can't add something to my own poll?

[Ravenhart]

If the parade is chanting something like "Pagans are evil spawn of Satan" and rain will end the parade, yes make it rain. Heck, call on a Tsunami!
If it is implyed in any way that Pagans are evil or harmfull, rain Rain RAIN!


Blessed Be!

[Earth Walker]

And it should POUR when nazi's, skinheads and Aryan one-
thing or another groups want to march.

A rant to those Morons:

Du bist eine dumf esels!

I called them A**es!

[Dria El]

Yep. Only cus I don't view it as a punishment. And, incidentally, if it did start raining, my kids and I would be out there stomping in the puddles getting wet right along with them.

But, I just like the rain... if you couldn't tell... ;)

:D

[Illuminatus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anwyn
Secondly, I am against any sort of anti-anything parade, especially if it is anti-someone-else's-First-Ammendment-Rights. I am in full support of voting one's own personal beliefs, of being politically active beyond voting, of protesting something which directly affects you or your family and which you believe is dangerous and wrong, and even of preaching against other groups within your own circle of like-minded people. "An it harm none, do what you wilt."


Yeah, but most "Antis" can be re-written as "Pros". Like the Pro-Lifers... they are Anti-Abortion. But they can't SAY that, because it doesn't sound nice. Pro Life does. The Anti-Pagans could just as easily say they are Pro-Christ, and basicly have the same parade, but with a posative-sounding label on it.

I guess my point is that an Anti-view has (and should have) the same first-amendment protection as a pro-view. The Bill of Rights doesn't say "The Right To Free Speech As Long As It's Not Against Some Other Speech".. that's just silly.

[LadyWinter]

What does it really matter? I say let them do their thing...If you dont like the parade dont go. Organize a parade of your own for another day.....Why not show them the tolerance you would like extended to yourself?
Anyway...first ammendment...freedom of assembly.
"I may not like what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Slan Astar,
Winter

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Xois
where is the "weather magick is hooey" choice? ;)

I don't personally believe in weather magic, so there is no problem with ethics as far as I can see

Thank you, that is what I think!

But if *I* had said it I'd be strung up for path bashing.

I am in your debt Xois. Now, back to your thesis!

- Ill

[Mythrel]

in my opinion:

This country was founded on religious freedom, so I voted no it is not bad to bring rain. I don't have a problem with other people's religious choices, so why do they seem to have a problem with mine! I feel this is a bit of ironic justice to rain on there parade!

Mythrel

[arewynn]

i voted no
you should only use your energy as a last resort.you have to look at all the possible repercutions of your actions.if you ask for it to rain and two streets away from your parade there is a terrible accident caused by this rain and a van full of children dies because of your spell will you be able to live with your actions?
besides you are only doing this because you dont agree with they're beleifs.do you really think that is ethical?why not get a group of pagans and christians and promote the aspect of pro religion for all in protest of any anti religion campain.or something to that effect.
bright blessings
arewynn

[pilvikki]

i read the post too quickly and missed the 'ethical' part, so i missvoted: no. i'll take that back; it's not considered ethical to rain on anyone's parade.

however: 2 things are running here, the concept of ethical conduct and my views on them. personally i think it's fine to rain on people protesting your rights, especially since those protests are based on misinformation. it may not be ethical, but that kind of ethics obviously are not part of my package.

if they have a hail mary, hare krisna, or whatever other religious parade, cool, carry on, but do NOT parade against my beliefs, thank you very much. as far as i'm concerned one can believe in, pray to, worship and prostrate oneself in front of a pair of old galoshes, yes, do carry on indeed, don't mind me. i do not meddle in anyone's affairs and would like to have the favour returned.

<never mind spells, goes to rummage for the kids' super soakers>

[sherry]

Originally posted by Mystique
And it should POUR when nazi's, skinheads and Aryan one-
thing or another groups want to march.

A rant to those Morons:

Du bist eine dumf esels!

I called them A**es!


:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

I totally agree, Growing up in Clan country, I have been stuck trying to get to work waiting on these morons to get done!!
Thinking where is the BOLT of lightening when you need one!!:razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[Myst]

Originally posted by pilvikki
however: 2 things are running here, the concept of ethical conduct and my views on them. personally i think it's fine to rain on people protesting your rights, especially since those protests are based on misinformation. it may not be ethical, but that kind of ethics obviously are not part of my package.

if they have a hail mary, hare krisna, or whatever other religious parade, cool, carry on, but do NOT parade against my beliefs, thank you very much. as far as i'm concerned one can believe in, pray to, worship and prostrate oneself in front of a pair of old galoshes, yes, do carry on indeed, don't mind me. i do not meddle in anyone's affairs and would like to have the favour returned.


I'm a little confused here. Doesn't this seem a li'l hypocritical? "Ok, go rain on someone else's parade, especially since theirs is based on misinformation, but don't you rain on mine!" Certainly some people will believe that your beliefs are based on misinformation as well.. who gets to decide who's parade can be rained on and who's can't?

[SpikesPet5150]

My thoughts exactly Willow..well said. :) Live and let live.
~Bree

:elf:
My elf wants world peace. He's a naive little elf, but he sure bakes good cookies.

[Tigerwallah]

:woah: Not flesh eating acid that we're talking about. I'd be thrilled if it rained everyday. But, hey, that's just me.

[SpikesPet5150]

But to me, it isn't about just the rain. It's the fact that you want to try to stop people from protesting something. And while I don't agree with what they're protesting, they still have a legal right to do so.

There's really no way to win in a situation like this. They think you're wrong, you think they're wrong. Thats the bottom line. They're not going to make you change you mind, and you're not going to make them change theirs. People just have to learn how to agree to disagree about certain things. This being one of them.

Now, if they were trying to make it Illegal for you to practice your faith, then by all means, rain rain rain! Lightening and thunder and monsoon, too! No one has the right to take away your right to freedom of religion. And no one has a right to take away anyone elses right to Freedom of protest. Oh god, I am such an american. LOL

All they're really doing is stating their opinion. True, it's in a rude and incredibly loud and annoying manner, but in truth, that is all they're doing.

Someday, someone will tell you you're wrong. Most likely it'll happen all the time. You learn to smile and shrug it off. Not make it rain on them. Why don't we all do something constructive with our magick and make it rain where there are droughts and fires? That way, we could make it rain, *and* make people happy. :)
~Bree

P.S. I would love it if it rained all the time too.. mmm, I love the smell of rain, so fresh and yummy. It's raining right now... very peaceful.

[Tigerwallah]

Pardon me, but ...

If they are passionate about protesting, the rain might be an annoyance, but is it really taking away their rights to protest?

[SpikesPet5150]

Well obviously I was reading something wrong.. but what would be the point of making it rain on them if it didn't stop them? Just to make it rain? I don't get it. There are tons of places to just make it rain.. why choose that one if you don't want to use the rain to stop them from what they're doing?
~Bree

[Dria El]

There's lots of reasons one could choose.

They're annoying. So annoy them back. Or... Test their convictions.

Just to name a couple that came off the top of my head.

[SpikesPet5150]

Well this is deffinitely one of those areas where most of us will have to agree to disagree. I'm just very passive, I suppose. Of course, alot of people tell me that I allow people to walk all over me, just to avoid confrontation.. but hey, it's working out ok so far.

I've been in situations where I want to either hurt someone, or make their life/day/hour a living hell. And most of the time, I'm surprised I haven't done more bad things in my life... because in my eyes, soooo many people deserve my wrath (as scary as it is, yeah right! ha!) but I choose to just lie low and let people do what they're gonna do.

I'm not saying you guys are totally wrong if you wanna make it rain on these people... because I agree, its offensive and I don't like it. But, it's just not the way I'd handle it. Coming from the scared little door mouse, that statement really isn't that powerful is it? LOL
~Bree
:elf:

[pilvikki]

hypocritical?

of course it is! ok, so i express myself somewhat cumbersomely, especially at 3 am. what i had in mind was
a) rain ain't going to kill nobody, it might make those placards' print of - say "death to satanists" bleed and make them illegible, that's all.
and b) if you want to have a parade to celebrate your christian or whatever beliefs, go for it! it would never cross my mind to start a protest against that!

[Tigerwallah]

Besides, if someone asked for rain, and got it...
Well, it's not something that couldn't happen naturally, you know.
It rains all the time. Last year, where I'm living, it rained 40% of the time.

Yes, rain would be a minor annoyance.

[Myst]

In my response I was referring to "raining on their parade" as a symbolic negative response to one sharing their own beliefs.... :)

[LadyTrinity]

Let Karma handle things! :hmmmmm:

[Phoenix Blue]

I'm going to hold an anti-thread-necromancy parade. Make it rain on that!

[Dextra]

*snort*

[lunarcat]

I personally do not believe in satan. I was brought up catholic also went to catholic school until I was able to make the decision for myself, where that little devil was always mentioned.
I feel satan was made up to put the blame on someone/something else who couldn't be proven.

[Faeawyn]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has a right to voice that opinion as long as it harms no one else. They also have their own karma to contend with. If the gods want it to rain on them....it will. I prefer to leave that decision to a higher power. :)

[Caliburn]

make it rain whenever you like! I love being wet. I say let the anti-pagans have their parade, it would be amusing.

[Tarotboy4]

Interesting question. first is it right to rain on there parade? (I think theres a joke in there, but I'm not sure) Perhaps they are a bit annoying, but shouldn't we we trying to show were above such petty things as this? and if it does rain, will they connect it as an act against them or will they think otherwise? personally I wouldn't waste my time with it, but whatever your gut says is what I'd do

[Golden Princess]

And now for my revelation:

I don't have an opinion on this topic - so there

[Kyra Kismet]

Nothing wrong with a little rain.....ofcourse they will expect the Pagans to melt......LOL! :broomride

[scaerie faerie]

I wouldn't really care about an anti-Pagan parade enough to consider doing anything to it.

[mothwench]

i voted... yes. :p unless of course said parade happens to be in an area that has too much rain, making rain is good!
:floating:
however, if you decided to add hurricanes, hailstones and people-frying lightning bolts, i would find that a tad spiteful. ;)

[Shanti]

Man do I wish I had the power to control nature!! It is hot here..sweat! :)

Oh I didnt vote because if anyone one can truely control nature, science needs you more than a parade! We are in tornado season here, anyone out there that can stop a tornado? I am fearful of them living in a trailer. Seriously.