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MorningDove030202
August 26th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Please vote if you practice a non Witch, non Reconstructionist Neopagan faith where you also claim Shaman or Animism.

More research.......for my project....

Dove

Tzhebee
August 26th, 2004, 06:53 PM
I voted animist....although that is only a portion of me.

I actually prefer Eclectic Satanimist.

Shanti
August 26th, 2004, 06:53 PM
What is neo animism or neo shamanism? They are very old. And animism is a philosophy technically not a path. Shamanism isnt a path either, its a skill.

MorningDove030202
August 26th, 2004, 07:02 PM
What is neo animism or neo shamanism? They are very old. And animism is a philosophy technically not a path. Shamanism isnt a path either, its a skill.

I'm not saying NeoAnimism, or NeoShamanism. I'm asking NeoPagans who might also be on a Shaman or Animistic path.... that isn't witch, wiccan or Recon. A skill focused on can be a name of a path.

Dove

Shanti
August 26th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I'm not saying NeoAnimism, or NeoShamanism. I'm asking NeoPagans who might also be on a Shaman or Animistic path.... that isn't witch, wiccan or Recon. A skill focused on can be a name of a path.

Dove
Gotchya!!

I am an animist thats a shaman and I do magick but I dont consider myself a witch. And I follow nothing else and have no gods/godesses.

Shanti
August 26th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Whats neo pagan?

Whats the research if you dont mind...I'm nosey!!! :)

semi
August 26th, 2004, 07:29 PM
I do a lot of things that I guess fall under the heading of shamanism. At least, that's the term I use to explain it to people. The concept of animism is a huge part of what I do. I don't think too much about terms and titles and names of things. I've never considered myself a neopagan, I'm just a guy who's continually learning how to be a shaman and a warrior.

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 07:45 AM
Gotchya!!

I am an animist thats a shaman and I do magick but I dont consider myself a witch. And I follow nothing else and have no gods/godesses.

If you don't have Gods or Goddesses or a spiritual/religious interest in any mythology, then I'm wondering if you claim NeoPagan or not....??

Dove

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 07:47 AM
Whats neo pagan?

Whats the research if you dont mind...I'm nosey!!! :)

Well, just more info for my NeoPagan Family Tree.........

On my OtherPagan I might include a brach that is called "Shamanism/Animism" but only if there are people who are neo pagan who do claim shaman/animism.........

Dove

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 07:55 AM
If you don't have Gods or Goddesses or a spiritual/religious interest in any mythology, then I'm wondering if you claim NeoPagan or not....??

Dove I claim nothing but that I am animist and shaman. I even asked in a post above....what is neo-pagan?
As far as pagan....I am.

How can I even make a statement as to neo-pagan if I do not know what is mean by that term?

I know not all pagans belive in gods or godesses..and its not that I dont believe in them....I justdont have any...I dont feel any....I dont acknowledge any....I believe they exsist...they just are not part of my world.

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Well, for the purpose of this project....(see my tree image on the "How many Paths are there?" Thread)....

A NeoPagan is anyone who claims the following:

Witch
NeoPagan
Reconstructionist
Druid

If I just said Pagan, I'd have to include Hinduism, and maybe Buddhist, or anyting not a "Abrahamic Relgion"....... So to narrow it down to new faiths that look back to the ancient pagan religions, but are a rebirth of that religion, or a modernization of ancient pagan beliefes.

So, your a Pagan in the sence that you arn't Jewish, Islamic, or Christian....right?

Dove

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 09:53 AM
Well, for the purpose of this project....(see my tree image on the "How many Paths are there?" Thread)....

A NeoPagan is anyone who claims the following:

Witch
NeoPagan
Reconstructionist
Druid

If I just said Pagan, I'd have to include Hinduism, and maybe Buddhist, or anyting not a "Abrahamic Relgion"....... So to narrow it down to new faiths that look back to the ancient pagan religions, but are a rebirth of that religion, or a modernization of ancient pagan beliefes.

So, your a Pagan in the sence that you arn't Jewish, Islamic, or Christian....right?

Dove
Yes I am pagan for those reason but I still done see what the differance is between neo-pagan and pagan is.
Rebirth of the old...that I dont get. Continuing it yes, Rebirthing it no. My Grandmother was pagan and her mom and her mom and so on...it didnt end in the blood line till my mom so it skipped a generation, as I continued.
My grandmother came from Poland...her family line comes from Perssia and they passed down pagan ways. The traditions have changed through the generations but thats just because we are individuals and so our own personalities change our surroundings.
Just like a house..it can be passed through the generations but with each one the decor changes.

Just because the decor changes the path is not Reborn...just growing up. :)

Thats how I see it anyhow.

ancestral_lee
August 27th, 2004, 10:06 AM
id do away with all that neo stuff if i was you, it just adda a whole new stack of labels to piss people off :)

technically though the three paths all melt inot one another in most peoples experience., im not a shaman but i do include activities that could be seen as shamanic even though that isnt where they originate from. otherworld travel isntlimited to shamans.

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 10:09 AM
Yes I am pagan for those reason but I still done see what the differance is between neo-pagan and pagan is.
Rebirth of the old...that I dont get. Continuing it yes, Rebirthing it no. My Grandmother was pagan and her mom and her mom and so on...it didnt end in the blood line till my mom so it skipped a generation, as I continued.
My grandmother came from Poland...her family line comes from Perssia and they passed down pagan ways. The traditions have changed through the generations but thats just because we are individuals and so our own personalities change our surroundings.
Just like a house..it can be passed through the generations but with each one the decor changes.

Just because the decor changes the path is not Reborn...just growing up. :)

Thats how I see it anyhow.

Well, I don't see it that way. I'm Wiccan. Wicca is a new religion, a moderinzation of ancient relgious ideas assembled by Gardner and Valentine (sp?) from Free Masonry, Ceremonal Magick, and the OTO, and lots of historicaly inaccurate and unprovable anthropology of his time. Wicca is like 50 years old.

Yes, some familes are more in touch with their ancient traditions, but that doesn't make it a religious practice. My family has been Christian since before they landed here from the Mayflower (Yes, my family can document their ancestory back to the Mayflower.) My practices are not based on a lineage, and I am sceptical of most claimes to a lineage.

Therefore I am a First Generation, NeoPagan Wiccan Witch. (I was not initated by my Grandmother!! LOL)

Even most Reconstructionist organization claim they are a historicaly accurate rebirth of a dead Pagan Religion. Even if you argue that it's not realy Dead, most of the modern practicioners, for example lets take Hellenic Recon, arn't born Greek or born into a Recon family, so their practice of it is new, and thus claim NeoPagan.

Dove

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Well, I don't see it that way. I'm Wiccan. Wicca is a new religion, a moderinzation of ancient relgious ideas assembled by Gardner and Valentine (sp?) from Free Masonry, Ceremonal Magick, and the OTO, and lots of historicaly inaccurate and unprovable anthropology of his time. Wicca is like 50 years old.

Yes, some familes are more in touch with their ancient traditions, but that doesn't make it a religious practice. My family has been Christian since before they landed here from the Mayflower (Yes, my family can document their ancestory back to the Mayflower.) My practices are not based on a lineage, and I am sceptical of most claimes to a lineage.

Therefore I am a First Generation, NeoPagan Wiccan Witch. (I was not initated by my Grandmother!! LOL)

Wiccan is new but pagan is old and never died...ask Native Americans that never stopped practising. It may be new to a person but paganism is not new in itself.
Even most Reconstructionist organization claim they are a historicaly accurate rebirth of a dead Pagan Religion. Even if you argue that it's not realy Dead, most of the modern practicioners, for example lets take Hellenic Recon, arn't born Greek or born into a Recon family, so their practice of it is new, and thus claim NeoPagan.

Dove
Wiccan is new. Paganism is old and never died, just ask a Native American that still practises their tribal ways.
Paganism may be new to a person but not new in itself.
Plus paganism isnt a religion...it is many beliefs that are not Jewish, Christian and so on.

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 10:46 AM
Wiccan is new. Paganism is old and never died, just ask a Native American that still practises their tribal ways.
Paganism may be new to a person but not new in itself.
Plus paganism isnt a religion...it is many beliefs that are not Jewish, Christian and so on.

Exactly, that's why I'm a Neo Pagan, because it is new and modern, and it's a religion, and it's not Jewish, Christian or Islamic. Oh and my evidence that NeoPaganism is a religion would be "The Church of All Worlds" which claims it's new and Pagan, and also http://www.pagancommunitychurch.org/ -- A church that claims Pagan, but doesn't specify Witch or Wicca, although from their articles of faith, their are Wicca influences.... which on my tree would be Other NeoPagan.

Dove

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Exactly, that's why I'm a Neo Pagan, because it is new and modern, and it's a religion, and it's not Jewish, Christian or Islamic. Oh and my evidence that NeoPaganism is a religion would be "The Church of All Worlds" which claims it's new and Pagan, and also http://www.pagancommunitychurch.org/ -- A church that claims Pagan, but doesn't specify Witch or Wicca, although from their articles of faith, their are Wicca influences.... which on my tree would be Other NeoPagan.

Dove
Pagan is not a religion. I have no beliefs in higher powers for myself. And you dont have to believe in higher powes to be pagan. I also worship no one or nothing.
Whats your definition of religion?

This is what I find for the definition of religion:


Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Paganism:

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 04:19 PM
Heck neo means new in the dictionary....neo pagan...pagans not new.
neo shamanism...shamanism..not new.
neo animism.....animism not new.

These things just are not new.

I didnt use the pole because it all says neo.

Neo , from Greek, from neos, new.

mothwench
August 27th, 2004, 04:36 PM
Well, for the purpose of this project....(see my tree image on the "How many Paths are there?" Thread)....

A NeoPagan is anyone who claims the following:

Witch
NeoPagan
Reconstructionist
Druid



there were several posts on your other thread by reconstructionists who don't consider themselves neo. most do not. some druids do not.
i understand and see the need to simplify things for your graphs, but that information is just plain wrong.

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Pagan is not a religion. I have no beliefs in higher powers for myself. And you dont have to believe in higher powes to be pagan. I also worship no one or nothing.
Whats your definition of religion?

This is what I find for the definition of religion:


Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Paganism:

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.


You are correct Pagan is not a religion. NeoPagan is a religion. This is my point.
Dove

MorningDove030202
August 27th, 2004, 04:38 PM
there were several posts on your other thread by reconstructionists who don't consider themselves neo. most do not. some druids do not.
i understand and see the need to simplify things for your graphs, but that information is just plain wrong.

And as I said in that thread, I will add a disclaimer stating that not all Recons consider themselves NeoPagan, but there ARE plenty of Recon Organizations that do, therefore I will keep it in my Family Tree.

Dove

mothwench
August 27th, 2004, 04:40 PM
You are correct Pagan is not a religion. NeoPagan is a religion. This is my point.
Dove
neopaganism isn't a religion either, it's a religious movement, if it can be classed as that even.
yeah, okay, that's nitpicking, i'll shut up now. :bigredblu

mothwench
August 27th, 2004, 04:45 PM
And as I said in that thread, I will add a disclaimer stating that not all Recons consider themselves NeoPagan, but there ARE plenty of Recon Organizations that do, therefore I will keep it in my Family Tree.

Dove
yeah, and that's fine, but the thing is, shanti was asking:
what's neo-pagan?
to which you replied:
neopagan is anyone who is reconstructionist (among others) ,
which is just blatantly untrue. so i'm saying, please stick to the facts. but it's alright, it's your project, i just think it's weird, you know, you asking for help from people here for your project and then you just go and ignore the information they've given you.
:whatmewor

edited to add: why are you so adament about leaving out the pagans who aren't neo? if it's because of the issue with buddism and other hindu religions, then i think you would have a much easier time of it if you just explain in short terms at the beginning that you're excluding them (the buddhists) and why. that'll save you all this mess about who's neo-pagan and who's pagan.
:sunny:

Shanti
August 27th, 2004, 08:15 PM
You are correct Pagan is not a religion. NeoPagan is a religion. This is my point.
Dove Then just exactly what the heck is neopagan...I still dont get it. :huh:

You also said A NeoPagan is anyone who claims the following:

Witch
NeoPagan
Reconstructionist
Druid Thats says a a neopagan is anyone who claims to be neopagan.... huh?:huh:
Who can anyone claim neopagan if they dont know what it is.
You havent explained.
you just keep saying a neopagan is a person who is neopagan...that makes no sence as it still doesnt say what a neopagan is.

I know if I asked what wicca basically is I could get an answer on the boards. So what is neopagan religion? One god? Multi gods/godesses? No gods? Worship of trees? What?:whatgives

Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill
August 27th, 2004, 10:27 PM
And as I said in that thread, I will add a disclaimer stating that not all Recons consider themselves NeoPagan, but there ARE plenty of Recon Organizations that do, therefore I will keep it in my Family Tree.

Dove

I'd love to know which groups these are, because after searching I have found one total that says they consider themselves to be neo-pagans. I've searched the websites of the largest Recon groups I could find and these are the results:

Nemeton (http://www.technovate.org/web/nemeton/) (Celtic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

IMBAS (http://www.imbas.org) (Celtic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Nova Roma (http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/) (Roman Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon neo-pagan

Asatru Folk Assembly (http://www.runestone.org/flash/home.html) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Ásatrúarfélagið (http://www.asatru.is/english/EnglishFirstPage.html) (Germanic Recon, specifically Icelandic) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Northevegr: The Northern Way (http://www.northvegr.org/) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

The Troth (http://www.thetroth.org/) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Anglo-Saxon Heathenism (http://www.englishheathenism.homestead.com/introduction.html) (Anglo-Saxon Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

The House of Isis and Osiris (http://www.compulink.co.uk/~zonko/thoiao.htm) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon neo-pagan.

Kemet.org/House of Netjer (http://www.kemet.org/home.html) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

International Network of Kemetics (http://www.inkemetic.org/) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

Hellenion (http://www.hellenion.org/) (Hellenic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon to be neo-pagan.

Leituvos Romuva (http://www.romuva.lt/index.php?kalba=engl) (Baltic Recon) says nowhere on the pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Sacred Serpent Romuva (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2810/romuvawhatis.html) (Baltic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Slavjanstvo (http://slavjanstvo.org/en/) (Slavic Recon) says nowhere on their site they consider their religion neo-pagan.

In fact Hellenotamiai (http://duttond.topcities.com/Hellenotamiai/) (Hellenic Recon) is the only site I find a reference that would suggest they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

MorningDove030202
August 28th, 2004, 09:40 AM
Then just exactly what the heck is neopagan...I still dont get it. :huh:

You also said Thats says a a neopagan is anyone who claims to be neopagan.... huh?:huh:
Who can anyone claim neopagan if they dont know what it is.
You havent explained.
you just keep saying a neopagan is a person who is neopagan...that makes no sence as it still doesnt say what a neopagan is.

I know if I asked what wicca basically is I could get an answer on the boards. So what is neopagan religion? One god? Multi gods/godesses? No gods? Worship of trees? What?:whatgives

I would say that to be Wiccan you have to acknowldege Gardner as the founder of Wiccca, that it is a Witchcraft tradtion and that you acknowledge the Wiccan Rede and acknowledge male and female deties or energies exist. (Acknowledging and worshiping being two different things.) I feel that Wicca is an Othropraxic (sp?) religon not an orthodox... we are more defined by our practices than our belivefs. You can have an eclectic coven that agrees to practice the same way, but you don't have to necessary belive in the same gods.

Dove

MorningDove030202
August 28th, 2004, 09:42 AM
I'd love to know which groups these are, because after searching I have found one total that says they consider themselves to be neo-pagans. I've searched the websites of the largest Recon groups I could find and these are the results:

Nemeton (http://www.technovate.org/web/nemeton/) (Celtic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

IMBAS (http://www.imbas.org) (Celtic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Nova Roma (http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/) (Roman Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon neo-pagan

Asatru Folk Assembly (http://www.runestone.org/flash/home.html) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Ásatrúarfélagið (http://www.asatru.is/english/EnglishFirstPage.html) (Germanic Recon, specifically Icelandic) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Northevegr: The Northern Way (http://www.northvegr.org/) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

The Troth (http://www.thetroth.org/) (Germanic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Anglo-Saxon Heathenism (http://www.englishheathenism.homestead.com/introduction.html) (Anglo-Saxon Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

The House of Isis and Osiris (http://www.compulink.co.uk/~zonko/thoiao.htm) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon neo-pagan.

Kemet.org/House of Netjer (http://www.kemet.org/home.html) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

International Network of Kemetics (http://www.inkemetic.org/) (Egyptian Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

Hellenion (http://www.hellenion.org/) (Hellenic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religon to be neo-pagan.

Leituvos Romuva (http://www.romuva.lt/index.php?kalba=engl) (Baltic Recon) says nowhere on the pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Sacred Serpent Romuva (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2810/romuvawhatis.html) (Baltic Recon) says nowhere on their pages that they consider their religion neo-pagan.

Slavjanstvo (http://slavjanstvo.org/en/) (Slavic Recon) says nowhere on their site they consider their religion neo-pagan.

In fact Hellenotamiai (http://duttond.topcities.com/Hellenotamiai/) (Hellenic Recon) is the only site I find a reference that would suggest they consider their religion to be neo-pagan.

Ok well then I will reword my disclaimer. I still feel it is a greater insult to leave them out. And I do know Recons who still claim neopagan as individuals.
Dove

Shanti
August 28th, 2004, 09:43 AM
I would say that to be Wiccan you have to acknowldege Gardner as the founder of Wiccca, that it is a Witchcraft tradtion and that you acknowledge the Wiccan Rede and acknowledge male and female deties or energies exist. (Acknowledging and worshiping being two different things.) I feel that Wicca is an Othropraxic (sp?) religon not an orthodox... we are more defined by our practices than our belivefs. You can have an eclectic coven that agrees to practice the same way, but you don't have to necessary belive in the same gods.

Dove What do covens have to do with neo=paganism?
Are you saying neopaganism is like wicca?

Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill
August 28th, 2004, 09:45 AM
Ok well then I will reword my disclaimer. I still feel it is a greater insult to leave them out. And I do know Recons who still claim neopagan as individuals.
Dove

Huh. I'd actually be interested to meet some that do consider themselves neo-pagan. I've met plenty who will go with pagan if it is accorded the definition of "one who does not follow any of the three abrahamic faiths," but I have definitely never met one who accepts being called neo-pagan.

MorningDove030202
August 28th, 2004, 10:58 AM
Huh. I'd actually be interested to meet some that do consider themselves neo-pagan. I've met plenty who will go with pagan if it is accorded the definition of "one who does not follow any of the three abrahamic faiths," but I have definitely never met one who accepts being called neo-pagan.

Well I know some on www.gaiaonline.com if you care to look there. Or you could just post your own poll here asking "If you are a Reconstructionist, do you claim to be Pagan, or NeoPagan or Neither?"

That might give us some light on the subject.

Dove

MorningDove030202
August 28th, 2004, 10:59 AM
What do covens have to do with neo=paganism?
Are you saying neopaganism is like wicca?

Yes, Wiccans are NeoPagans......but so are alot of others. Did you see my tree picture?

Dove

mothwench
August 28th, 2004, 11:02 AM
What do covens have to do with neo=paganism?
Are you saying neopaganism is like wicca?
here's my take on it:
as you quite rightly said, neo means new. so neo-paganism is a form of paganism, but with the difference that it incorporates new practices and ideas. yeah, wicca is a neopagan religion, cause it incorporates ideas that were not around in the times the religions that wicca is supposedly based on were practised.

this will lead some to the question of, well, if shamanism, animism or reconstructionism aren't neo-pagan, doesn't that mean that they would have to perform the same rituals as they did in those times? (i.e. human and animal sacrifice, divining from entrails etc.)
afaik no, because the fact is, that simply leaving something out is not the same as replacing it with something new.
another point of critique to the elder-pagan movement as i've just decided to call it :p, cause non-neo sounds icky, is that it leaves no room for personal gnosis. it certainly does, the only difference is, that if and when someone does actually write about their interpretation of myths, legends, archaeological discoveries etc, they will painstakingly make sure that everyone reading/listening is aware that it *is* in fact their personal gnosis, and should not be taken as fact.
in my opinion this kind of behaviour is what's missing in the neo-pagan movement, and it's why i shied away from it.

Mesektet
August 28th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Shamanist is a better description than anything...

Shanti
August 28th, 2004, 04:14 PM
mothwench....this will lead some to the question of, well, if shamanism, animism or reconstructionism aren't neo-pagan, doesn't that mean that they would have to perform the same rituals as they did in those times? (i.e. human and animal sacrifice, divining from entrails etc.)
But shamanism and animism can be from any culture and they have nothing to do with animal sacrifice in them selves.
Shamnism is going to the spirit world through altered states of consciousness. It was and is practiced all over the world.
Animism is just the belief that there is more in nature than just the physical. Period.
Neither has a set of rules or a exact tradition. So you cant 'make' them new nor are they paths. You can be of any faith and be shaman and/or animist.

Unless people are out there trying to make something differant and give it those titles!!!

And if thats the case..why not give it a differant name all together?
Why try to create something its not and then put neo in front?

Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill
August 28th, 2004, 08:19 PM
Well I know some on www.gaiaonline.com if you care to look there. Or you could just post your own poll here asking "If you are a Reconstructionist, do you claim to be Pagan, or NeoPagan or Neither?"

That might give us some light on the subject.

Dove

The above link takes me to an anime character creation. I'm thinking your link is faulty?

Shanti
August 28th, 2004, 09:30 PM
The above link takes me to an anime character creation. I'm thinking your link is faulty?It takes me there too!

mothwench
August 30th, 2004, 03:48 PM
But shamanism and animism can be from any culture and they have nothing to do with animal sacrifice in them selves.
Shamnism is going to the spirit world through altered states of consciousness. It was and is practiced all over the world.
Animism is just the belief that there is more in nature than just the physical. Period.
Neither has a set of rules or a exact tradition. So you cant 'make' them new nor are they paths. You can be of any faith and be shaman and/or animist.

Unless people are out there trying to make something differant and give it those titles!!!

And if thats the case..why not give it a differant name all together?
Why try to create something its not and then put neo in front?

from what i've read and heard, the early shamans did in fact read the future from animals entrails, and secondly, it was not practised all around the world. but if you as a scholor on this subject say they didn't, and that shamanism was a cross-cultural thing, well, i'm not about to argue. specially cause it's not part of my spirituality. the point was really that it shouldn't matter because we don't have to incorporate all practises in order to reconstruct a religion.

and as for animism, yeah, you're right, it's not really part of all this paths stuff, cause it's more a frame of mind, than an actual religion, sorry, my bad. :)

Shanti
August 30th, 2004, 05:06 PM
from what i've read and heard, the early shamans did in fact read the future from animals entrails, and secondly, it was not practised all around the world. but if you as a scholor on this subject say they didn't, and that shamanism was a cross-cultural thing, well, i'm not about to argue. specially cause it's not part of my spirituality. the point was really that it shouldn't matter because we don't have to incorporate all practises in order to reconstruct a religion.

and as for animism, yeah, you're right, it's not really part of all this paths stuff, cause it's more a frame of mind, than an actual religion, sorry, my bad. :) Shamanism was practised all over the world. It just went by differant names acording to region like Medicine man for the Native Americans.
As for reading entrails, that may have been practised by some but its not a standard in shamanism. Plus shamanism isnt a religion or path. Its a skill. There usually is one shaman to a tribe, clan or group. Just like you can have a cleric in many faiths so can there be a shaman.

Heres a link that explains shamanism.LINK (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/shamanism/overview/)

Do a google..you will see it is world wide.

MorningDove030202
August 30th, 2004, 05:59 PM
The above link takes me to an anime character creation. I'm thinking your link is faulty?

No, it's the right link, it's a forum, and there is a forum for discussing religion where there are some recons who claim neopagan.

Dove