Tai chi

[mythril]

I started this thread in the general chat section but i think it would fit in here quit well.

I had an idea of maybe starting online lessons on some chi kung exercises or tai chi forms, if anyone is interested.

So, who would like to learn some?

[Shy Hawk]

I do some tai chi, and also some kung fu..........but how could you teach forms in this setting?

[mythril]

I can start with the first short form of the yang style by writing down every movement. i will then try to make some photos and scan them in.
Same goes for the chi gung.
:)

[Shy Hawk]

Whew...well at least I know Chi Gung already....actually it was the first thing they taught us....
(Is sensing a picture heavy thread)..lol

[Sequoia]

Tai Chi is something I have ALWAYS wanted to learn!! Even if just online, I would LOVE to!!

[Tsuki]

i know many martial arts, tai chi is very good, tai chi masters can take a beating, i saw one go against a kung fu master, and althought the tai chi has beaten (punched and kicked alot), he still won, but i still prefer my own fighting style

[Danustouch]

ummmmmmm...do you mean Tai Bo????? I've never seen Tai Chi used as a fighting method...but...I may be wrong....

[Shy Hawk]

lol Tai Chi is deadly. Tae Bo is made up. (laughs)
Tai Chi teaches you very useful defensive and yes even offensive moves. People do them slowly as a way to relax and even meditate. But Tai Chi can be used as a fighting style.

[Danustouch]

wow...i knew about Tai Chi as a fitness technique..but did not know it was also a fighting technique. I also knew that Tai bo was mainly for fitness..but...have heard more than one person say that they felt (after practicing tae bo for a while)..that they could take anyone on! (this..on their INFOMERCIALS)..LOL..my friend (who is a third degree blackbelt in Taikwondo)..used to make me sit through them, simply so he could poke fun at it. LOL.

[Shy Hawk]

Because I'm not in training at the moment Tae Bo is a good way to keep in shape. But uh...it may strengthen your kicks, but it wont teach you when to use them.
I'm a fan of good old fashioned Chinese Kung Fu. Specifically Shoalin Hung Gar (my style)...but I have been known to mix it up with a bit of Wing Chun. Anyhow (is waaaay off topic). I tried out Tai Chi myself. Didn't like it too much, but then again, we all have to find our own styles. Like, I could probably never do Tae Kwon Do...but that's just me. I don't think I could even stand Karate. It's a personal choice I guess.
My mother is a Judo champ though...but I am not a fan of Judo so much...so I don't think it's for me. Anyhow, I don't know how I got started on this but...I'm done now! :D

[mythril]

Tai chi was originaly created as a martial defense style.
By a monk.
Apparently, one day he was sitting in his room overlooking the temple gardens when he noticed a stork and snake in combat.
He wached intently and noticed how the stork always defended by deflecting the snakes attack with its wings and how the snake pulled back and sunk when the stork attacked.
This is how it supposedly started.
It is a form of kung fu and takes years of study( a lifetime) to learn to use it in defense (notice that i do not say attack).

Now wonder the old masters are so healthy and can utilise the chi properly.

Only later did it also become a meditation/health exercise.

Good to see that some are interested, i will first start with a few chi kung exercises to get you started, then we can start with the first form.

The chi kung exercises are for allowing the chi to flow smoothly around the body.

If you have never felt energy before, practice these every day and notice how your palms tingle and your lower dantien (3-5 cm below the navel) gets very warm. this is the physical stimulation that the chi creates just to remind u that it is there and that u r doing something right :D

Oh yes... before starting chi kung or tai chi, first stretch and get the joints loose.

This is how i start off :
-Begin with feet shoulder width appart, now keeping the legs fairly straight (not locked) bend down and touch the ground, breath in as u go down.
Now slowly come up.

-next keeping your posture upright , do a slow squat, u can point your toes outwards if it makes it any easier, but important to keep spine straight and relax your body, use your legs and waist to do the squating.
Now come slowly up ,

-with ur toes pointing the front, turn left with your waist and bend down the left side of ur body, keeping legs fairly straight.
Once touchign the floor, bring yourself to the front and then back up slowly once again.
now do another squat.
repeat this step but turn your waist right to start with this time.

now toes facing front, use your waist and spin yourself around from side to side without moving legs, this loosens the waist ( very important in tai chi).
Then after a few of those, do the same but fling your arms over your shoulders thios time.
next shrug your shoulders backwards a few times then forwards.

Lastly, put feet together and hands on knees move your knees around in a circular fassion both ways a couple of times, dont move your feet. this loosens the knee joinjts and ankle.

gasp.... finaly :) put feet shoulder width apart and sway gently from side to side loosening your whole body
and that is it for warm up.

Every one understand? :)

[mythril]

I would love some of your input shy hawk, perhaps u could show us some chi gung exercise u know :)
Ive seen hung gar, looks very interesting, and i am also not a fan of karate, probably because i had a terrible instuctor , when i was young i tried a karate class out and the instructor shouted every time i was 1 cm out of the correct stance :D
Its also a bit too jerky for me and just uses brute force, but hey, all martial arts have their good points.

[Danustouch]

my hubby practiced Akido for a long time. What is your take on Akido?

[mythril]

i like aikido too, because it is a internal art.
I like martial arts utilising chi :).
the locks are also good in aikido.

[Tsuki]

i lov martial arts but karate just..... doesnt....well,it just isnt that good, i havefought many of the karate masters, thy seem o have no skill

[Shy Hawk]

It's not Karate itself....maybe just the people you've met. Karate itself is very beautiful and strong (not as much as Kung Fu....nevermind....:rolleyes: ).......then only beef I have with Karate is that it has become very "Americanized" and lost most of it's traditional style and teaching methods.

I was very fortunate to have a master that was American born, but his master lived in Hong Kong and he made a trip there twice a year for a week to learn from him. Once in a while his master would come to where we were and would watch the class and give input. Our Sifu was very traditional, as a result, in training style.
I very much dislike it when a style that is being taught, is extremely changed or altered to fit whatever agenda anyone has. That's my beef with MOST KARATE. I have seen very traditional schools that I liked. BUt mostly, it's not my thing.

As far as giving some chi gung....hmm...that'd be difficult for me to explain...like you know...put your hand here, move your foot there. Besides, it was less about our movements (though they were specific about which movements we were making) than how we were breathing and the rhythm we took.
I should note, we had to meditate for 15 minutes both before and after class...so maybe meditation would be a good route.

He lights incense on the altar, bows and prays....though what he says is somewhat shrouded in mystery. Then we meditate either in silence, to traditional chinese music, or to sounds of nature. Mostly in silence.

By the way Mythril so far you're doing a neeto job.

My mother tried to suppliment Judo with Aikido...she said it was a bit faster than Judo, and very heavy on joint locks and whatnot. She has some books on Aikido on her shelves...she likes it. I haven't seen much of it myself.

To leave a plug for my mommy....she was Joan Desiderio, New York State Heavy Weight Judo Champion 1969. I'm so proud.
PS She paid for her art...she's now crippled, do to repeated injury of both of her knees.

[mythril]

what i do admire about karate is the tradition.
Like shaolin kung fu and other traditional arts.
There are sadly to many new martial arts these days without tradition.

[mythril]

thanks shy hawk, and u r of course right.
There is no ultimate martial art, they all have their faults and good points.
It is a pity that karate has become so westernised, i know that much of its true aplication and actual way of practicing it is lost here in the west,
I do believe that it is not supposed to be as hard and physically powerful as it has been made in the west, im sure that it is originally quite similar to softer styles, just by the fact that a very old master can defend himself against younger people, therefore brute strength and force are surely not the issue.

anyway, i tried it but didn't find it as flowing as tai chi, so i started tai chi instead.:)

Ive tried kobujutsu, which is a okinawan weaponery art, that was quit fun but they wanted me to learn some karate katas as well and i wasn't really interested so i stoped.

I also tried eskrima, a philipeens martial art utilising double canes , grips and locks. very effective art.

But i love tai chi, tai chi forever
:D

[snappyglitz]

Am learning Chi Kung and Tai Chi presently and teaching it to my clients as I learn! What a fantastic tool to improve strength, quiet the mind and increase personal well-being..not to mention the stretching and toning aspects of the art.
i am a personal trainer and just love this stuff!

[mythril]

Yeah, its awesome isnt it:).

Anyone ready to start the first chi gung exercise i have lined up?

[Myst]

Originally posted by Tsuki
i lov martial arts but karate just..... doesnt....well,it just isnt that good, i havefought many of the karate masters, thy seem o have no skill

Then you aren't fighting real masters.

It varies greatly from dojo to dojo - I in fact know a few really pathetic instructors (ie. the kind who coincidentally give out belts when bills are due and charge an arm and a leg for them). I even knew one guy who's sensei told him he could have his black belt if he punched the ceiling. Where my fiance used to train he had no problem taking on higher belts (blue, green, even brown) even when he was only a white and yellow. Now he studies Goju Ryu under a good sensei, and is coming up to his black belt probably at the end of this year. For his brown he had to perform various katas including some weapons katas after sparring for hours, often with two people at once. He also had to write an essay, answer Karate related questions, and even perform a bo kata while holding 10 bos instead of one (and with each bo with about a 2" diameter). Just to show an example on how technique and teachings vary *greatly* from one sensei to the next.

I know he would not agree with teaching technique online because it is impossible to convey the belief system, meditation, and energy work behind karate (and martial arts in general)..

On the other note, tai chi can be a nasty art if used in that way....

[mythril]

yes, can be very powerful.

I know it is a bit dificult to teach online but even if i just teach the movements and breathwork , i think it would be enjoyable to many who find it difficult to find a teacher or school.
Of course it is impossible to teach the very deep aspects online but lets see what happens.

[Shy Hawk]

For our placement tests we also had to take a written test. Much of it was on Chinese history and Language. (We had to learn Cantonese...or at least a great deal of it)

[moonmagick4]

I am ready!!Let's get on with it!!This sounds great!!!;) :boing: :boing: :boing: :wave:

[Myst]

Originally posted by Shy Hawk
For our placement tests we also had to take a written test. Much of it was on Chinese history and Language. (We had to learn Cantonese...or at least a great deal of it)

Yup. He had to know various Chinese terms and their meanings, the history behind Goju Ryu, and other Chinese history. I think this is very important, along with his having to write an essay, to stress that karate is not just about the physical at all. There's philosophy and history as well as energy work and meditation involved.


Originally posted by mythril
I know it is a bit dificult to teach online but even if i just teach the movements and breathwork , i think it would be enjoyable to many who find it difficult to find a teacher or school.
Of course it is impossible to teach the very deep aspects online but lets see what happens.

I didn't mean to suggest you shouldn't. Even for those who can find a school in their area they'd probably like to start seeing what it's about before enrolling... :)

[mythril]

I know u didn't willow :) :p

must be wonderful to learn the history of the art, and learning the chinese or japanese language... id love to learn that.

oki doki, here is the first chi kung exercise to get us started:

It is mainly for stretching the whole body and releasing tension so that chi can flow smoothly.

-Stand feet parrallel shoulderwidth apart legs slightly bent, cocxix in and relax sinking your weight down grounding yourself, arms by your side, and clear your mind(easy concept but difficult to do:)).

-now while breathing in, bring right arm up in front of the body slowly with palm facing in, carry on until your right hand isjust above your head. now turn your right palm out and up and your left palm to face the ground.
-now slowly breathe out while pushing upward with your right palm and pushing downward with your left, and rising onto your toes. stretch and feel all your muscles getting looser.look at your right hand in the air.

step 2 - when ready, slowly breathe in while sinking back onto your feet and the right and left palm turn to face your body.look forward.
while doing this bring your left arm up and your right arm down in front of your body until they cross each other and keep rising the left arm and lowering the right arm.
-when left palm reaches top of head and right reaches just above waist, turn left palm out and up facing sky and right palm down facing ground .
-now slowly breathe out as you push up with the left palm and down with the right at the same time while rising on your toes.
Turn your head and look at your left palm in the air.

repeat step 2 but this time with right palm in air and left facing ground .

Do this for as long as u want, when done bring palms in to body , palms facing up and breathe in. then lower your arms pushing down and sinking your energy and weight down .

Then relax and remain in a mindlessness(wu ji) state.


Thats the first one, does everyone understand? :)

[Silver Venus]

I think ;) and Im printing these instructions off as I type :thumbsup:
Ive always wanted to learn Chi-kung and Tai Chi and now I am!! Thanks sooo much!!

I know the Chi-Kung excercise where you start as your feet and rub in tiny ciruclar movements with your knuckles all the way up your body finishing on your head and its great!!! :D
Ill be trying these out tonight and will report back tomorrow with my experiences.

:bubbles:

[mythril]

right on :)

I will get to an exercise where one taps the skulp and rest of the body to get the energy going

That technique that u are speeking of is also great.

[Tsuki]

i guess it could be thepeople insead of the art, i just havent found that many karate masters (if they are masters) that are good, and wat doyou mean by westernized sure we in the west can srew many things up just to fit our needs but dont forget that Bruce Lee (very good martial artist) made one for the west because many chinese martial arts master (never refer to a chinese martial master as a sensei), well anywas h made it for the west it was pretty goo, but the only two people who knewit are deid, they were Bruce Lee and his son

[Shy Hawk]

Hold hold hold hold hold.....what did he make for the west? If you are talking about a style, then you are mistaken because his style was Jeet Kun Do, and that is being taught all over the world. He started it, but certainly wasn't the last. Anyway, it wasn't like he had any wild new techniques. He just took Wing Chun Kung Fu...and mixed it along with another style of Kung Fu. He originally did Wing Chun though, which is also very popular.

By the way, a Kung Fu "master" is called a Sifu. And, sensei certainly wouldn't do.

As far as westerized...I mean the training method is totally different than it is in the East. We certainly don't (most of us, there are exceptions) train hours a day every day. And most of us don't learn language or culture along with martial arts....and that was a huge part of the art. Most Karate teachers (that I have seen, but again there are exceptions) are more interested in breaking bricks and handing out belts than history or philosophy. I mean for God's sake...I see six year olds with black belts now. That's almost impossible in most Kung Fu schools. Part of the black sash test in our school was meditating for 12 hours and doing 10,000 push ups in succession. There were only 4 black sashes in our school...and they had all been there at least 10 years.
I didn't even get my WHITE SASH till I had been there a year....I wasn't allowed to spar until I was there 8 months and had to pass a test to do it. (I got a certificate and everything. :D)
What was my point...and yes I had one.....oh yeah....because of westernization of martial arts, tests like that were almost unheard of. I mean we got tested...there was no consolation prize. It was hard! You just don't see this stuff enough these day.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Shy Hawk
By the way, a Kung Fu "master" is called a Sifu. And, sensei certainly wouldn't do.

I think it's been mentioned *twice* already that Karate varies vary from dojo to dojo. Yes there are some questionable ones out there as I mentioned, however this doesn't make it any less of a martial art - all arts are bastardized in some places, to be sure. For example, I can think of two that are crap and two that are good myself. Which I see you've said "most" but I think it should be stressed that the validity of an art doesn't rest on some of it's practicers at all. Having been witness to a few grading myself I'm well aware of how hard it is, and it's the same reason why I haven't joined the dojo :) It should also be noted there's various types of karate as well as different teachers :)

A karate teacher is a Sensei. :)

[Shy Hawk]

You are quite right...just becuase I haven't been to a great dojo doesn't mean they aren't out there. And, Karate is no less of an art just because I haven't met a good sensei....
Ya know, my best friend does Karate and we're always going head to head about which style is the best. lol I know, we're so kiddish...but in the end, it's the practicianer, not the style.

[Tsuki]

havent you read any of Bruce Lee's autobiography, i have read a bunch of them (heck them even hve a movie i think, wish i could see it) and in many of them they say he made his own martial arts style

[Shy Hawk]

YES, he did create his own style, and that style is Jeet Kun Do. Which is very popular now (if only because he created it)....but it's not secret...by any stretch of the imagination.

And, I have read biographies...not his autobiography if there is one....which I don't think there is. However his wife has one that most use as an authority.

At this link you will find a page where there is an article Bruce wrote about Jeet Kun Do and was in a martial arts magazine. No secrets there....also, he was persecuted among the Chinese for teaching Jeet Kun Do to white students in his school (yes he had a school where he taught this technique). http://www.brucelee.org.uk/jeet.htm
If you seek more info let me know.....
But hey, what do I know....

[Myst]

My fiance suggests that he made his own art because he could only get a yellow sash in kung fu... :)

[Shy Hawk]

Maybe we have different styles. We practiced Shoa Lin Hung Gar. What type was he? Plus we went by the Gup system......(Ex. 8th Gup was "white sash" though we didn't get any of these sashes, it was a rank, but we didn't possess any of these sashes. I believe 6th Gup started Green sash. 4th gup started red sash....hmm....2nd Gup was black sash (but not a master yet) 1st Gup was black sash with red tassels (master level).) This is according to Cantonese Shoa Lin Hung Gar. As our Sifu's Sifu (our grandmaster...shall we say) was from Hong Kong, not mainland. That would account for lots of differences in method, forms, language, history, and sashes.
Hope this helps.

[Shy Hawk]

Shao not Shoa, what was I thinking?

[mythril]

Yeah, bruce lee used techniques from the east to create his style.
And it does depend on the person who calls themself a master.
Some just like to be called that to boost their ego so they can go around intimidating people.

others, the genuine sensei/sifu/master should b respected by everyone just by the fact that they spend many years studying the art with a passion and have gained wisdom from it.

anyway, thats how i feel . :)

by the way, give me some feedback on the first exercise people :)
any experiences?

when i do that one , my hand chakras become strongly activated and they tingle like mad.

[Silver Venus]

Originally posted by mythril
by the way, give me some feedback on the first exercise people :)
any experiences?

when i do that one , my hand chakras become strongly activated and they tingle like mad.

Sorry Mythril, I forgot to give them a try last night but I will for sure over the weekend :D and I will report back :T

...Interesting disscussion guys! Im afraid I know nothing about this stuff so cant really comment :)

[Shy Hawk]

I like where you are going with this so far Mythril.

[Tsuki]

I guess I could be wrong, sky hawk, it's just ever book that I have read about Bruce Lee says that he made his martial art, that only he and his son new, and that they were the only ones, but they had died before they could teach it, I guess it wasnt his autobiography ... if I am wrong i am truly sorry, for arguing with you

[Shy Hawk]

Shucks no problem.
We're all here to learn, even big stubborn me!

[mythril]

thanks Shyhawk :)

Im sure we r going to have lots of fun here.

[Shy Hawk]

I hope so, i don't have much of a social life otherwise.....lol;)

[mythril]

me neither :)

Ohh, just one thing.
I think it is the best practicing chi gung and taichi outside, as you will b breathing quit deeply and there is so much dust in ones house.
And it is wonderful practicing next to a lake or dam or river.

Sometimes i go to the botanical gardens where i live,
there is a beautiful waterfall there and lots of trees and birds.
Every year we have world taichio day in april, i think and our whole class goes there to demonstrate and mainly just to enjoy the art.:)

It is a time when taichi practitioners the world round practice together.

[mythril]

Heres a quick lesson on chi:

There are three energy centres dealt with in tai chi, namely the lower dantien( 3cm - 5cm below navel), middle dantien(heart chakra) and upper dantien (third eye).

It is important sinking your energy to the lower dantien because this is where chi collects.
When doing the exercises, sink your conciousness to the lower dantien and u will feel much more grounded and connected to nature . and earth energy.
therefore it is important to breathe into your stomach when doing tai chi and chi kung and holding your toung against the roof of your mouth to complete what is known as a cosmic circuit.
Energy runs between your mouth and finger tips.

Here is a small tibetan meditation i use to sink the chi and raise the spirit:

Sit in any comfortable possition, spine straight. now breathe slowly in with the stomach, expanding it while imagining energy travelling down through your crown and travelling to your lower dantien. see the energy gather at the lower dantien,
Now breathe out slowly bringing in your stomach and feel your energy sinking into the ground and your spirit rising up, and imagine the energy expanding filling your hole body , earth, universe.
and repeat from the beggining.

Sometimes during a exercise, you will feel a slight tingling on your upper lip, this is because the energy is moving in a line from right hand to right shoulder to mouth.

Saliva is also a product of energy flow, if you get a build up of saliva during practice, swallow it when you have breathed in.
This is a good sign.:)