Tzhebee's Animistic ramblings

[Tzhebee]

OK. So, I've been really thinking about this whole animism thing...and why I believe the things I believe. And why I think styrofoam and cats are evil. :2G:

Anyway...I really started looking into what I believe and digging deeper than I should have (because I get easily confussed). And I have a few things I would like to share and get others opinions on...even if your opinion is "what a mor-oon" :goodgrief .

So. Here's my most recent thought. I was thinking back to the beginning of lesson 1 and wondering about the essense of the chair. And I said that the chair still has an essense althought it is different than it was as a tree. So, I started really asking myself Why? Why do I believe that? What's different about it? etc etc etc until my head hurt and I ate some chocolate. :drool:

The chair has an essense as a tree, then it is changed into the chair...But, when a tree is changed into things, (chair, lumber, paper, toothpicks, whatever) does the original essense leave only to be replaced by a new essense, or does it just morph into a new essense of each of the objects it is changed into? Depending upon which way you answer that question, I have a billion other questions to go along with it!

Then, I decided that I believe (for now, until I think further on it) that the original essense from the tree leaves the tree once it is cut down. That essense basically lingers around where the tree once was. Then as the tree is made into something else, it creates it's own new essense.

So, what about those lingering essenses? :whatgives I'm still tossing this one around in my head...but I'm wondering if those lingering essenses are what people commonly refer to as spirits, fairies, dragons, etc. Perhaps these essenses are just lingering around waiting to be reincarnated? Or perhaps they are the protectors of what once was? I don't know...I must think on it more...

But I was hoping for some type of conversation to get my brain flowing once again, because it has hit a dead spot....

So, what do you all think?

[Shanti]

Well TZ...essance. Pick your poison (old expression), For you it can be essance of a spiritual nature, essance of any energy force..mana. Or an essance thats part of a greater being or an essance thats individual. It may or may not have consciousness. And also you can take all of it and use it all for whatever thing your talking about!!!

Did that help? :rolleyes:

[Tzhebee]

No.

But it gave me something else to ponder in the interim. :lol:

[Dove]

Wow Tz …. You n me mate.
Here’s me thinking if we get a roll of duct tape, and start wrapping it around our poor wee heads now … maybe we can keep them from exploding.
What do you think??
Erm … wait a minute …
*thinking about what it would take to get the tape off again*

Seriously … I’m leaning towards the idea that as things, change to become other things …
Like a tree being made into a chair … or a deer hide becoming boots …
They indeed morph into a new essence of their own.
Kind of like People having children … who have children, who have children, and generations later …. There is a part of the original parent still there in the child … but each person along the way has developed their own individual personality.
They have their own unique essence.

[Earthy]

oh,i feel so dumb....everybody gives such wonderful deep answers and here's me sat looking dumb.

My views have leaned heavily towards animism for a while now,even though i didn't realise it.i just love everything..in fact i think i love nature more than i love man.

[Tzhebee]

Dove.
OK...you take the morph aspect...then what about this:

One tree is changed into an entire dining room set (table with 6 chairs), abox of toothpicks and 3 reams of printer paper....does each of those individual pieces have a piece of the essense? I mean, each little toothpick?

And what happens to the sawdust? Does it also have essense? Are some pieces left with no essense? Do the bigger pieces get a bigger piece of the essense?

See....that approach really made my head hurt and spin, so I decided to go with the "create a new essense" approach...now I'm stuck with what happens to the old one and where does the new one come from!

Dangnabit Shanti!!!! WHY did you get me thinking?!?!?! I was dangerous enough before using my intelect! :p

[Shanti]

oh,i feel so dumb....everybody gives such wonderful deep answers and here's me sat looking dumb.

My views have leaned heavily towards animism for a while now,even though i didn't realise it.i just love everything..in fact i think i love nature more than i love man.
Stop feeling dumb..thats an order...you have done fine!!! Now quit that. Heck I talked to you awhile back and was very stimulated with our conversation...remember? Dam your far from dumb for sure!!!! You got me all perky!!!! That doesnt sound quite the way I meant it..but perky still works!! :bigblue:

[Tzhebee]

oh,i feel so dumb....everybody gives such wonderful deep answers and here's me sat looking dumb.

My views have leaned heavily towards animism for a while now,even though i didn't realise it.i just love everything..in fact i think i love nature more than i love man.
You have honest and true feelings/emotions about things. Just because you are unable to put those feelings into words does NOT make you dumb!!!! :G

We love you for you...not because you can sound smart. :smile:

[Dove]

hmmmmm .....
How many atoms do you suppose there are in a fleck of sawdust??

[Shanti]

TZ...the atoms that make up those things are all buzzing around...perhaps as they create energy from their movements (atoms dont just sit there) and that energy helps to create and or change the essance... group effort!!! And essance can be dispersed too!! :)

Possibilities are huge!!!! :)

[Tzhebee]

:twitch: :shaker: :wah2:

No, please.....no science....my brain hurts enough!

:smash: to science and atoms and stuff! :smash:

**eta**

Seriously, I refuse to think of atoms and stuff when I think of animism. Because quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me how many atoms or how big the atoms are, or who pulled who's quark....

Animism is a feeling. An emotion. An understanding in my heart, in my head and it just feels right to believe it....

And my feelings have nothing to do with science...unless we are talking about extreme compulsion to puke.

[Dove]

:twitch: :shaker: :wah2:

No, please.....no science....my brain hurts enough!

:smash: to science and atoms and stuff! :smash:
:spaceman: Tz ..... sheeeeeesh ......
LmfaoOOooOOoooooooo ... Pull yur self tagether woman!!!:fishsmack

[Arinya]

He's a question for you Tz...
You say when a tree gets cut up and turned into something else either A.) the tree's essence carries over into the new objects or B.) a new essence is formed.

Well...what about a cow?
If a cow gets cut up and turned into a batch of McDonald's hamburgers, does the cows essence remain in the burgers? Are we eating cow essence and the essences of...well we don't want to know!

[Shanti]

OK TZ...but essance, be it an energy or spirit, I would imagine can disperse when the time calls for it and regroup with others of like kind or solo.

[Shanti]

In my veiw, when something is all mixed up, scattered and what not, its essance disperses to go where ever and do what not. It can regroup like I spoke of..or not. There probably is a tad of essance left, but to me it would be more like a shadow of the former essance and thus I eat the burger and dont think about it. :)

[Tzhebee]

He's a question for you Tz...
You say when a tree gets cut up and turned into something else either A.) the tree's essence carries over into the new objects or B.) a new essence is formed.

Well...what about a cow?
If a cow gets cut up and turned into a batch of McDonald's hamburgers, does the cows essence remain in the burgers? Are we eating cow essence and the essences of...well we don't want to know!
A-ha! See, this is why I buy into the "a new essense is created" theory. Once the cow is dead, it's essense, it's soul, it's spirit (whatever) lingers about. If the rest of the cow is made into burger, steak and dog food...then no essense is formed there. If the hide is tossed and left to rot, no essense bothers to fill that. But if the hide were used to create something new...That creation process gives birth to a new essense!

How can essense determin what to adhere itself to and what not to? Because everything has personality (was that lesson 2 or 3?) and the basis of personallity IMO assumes that something has logical thought. So logically, the essense would not place itself into something that will be digested.

[Shanti]

A-ha! See, this is why I buy into the "a new essense is created" theory. Once the cow is dead, it's essense, it's soul, it's spirit (whatever) lingers about. If the rest of the cow is made into burger, steak and dog food...then no essense is formed there. If the hide is tossed and left to rot, no essense bothers to fill that. But if the hide were used to create something new...That creation process gives birth to a new essense!

How can essense determin what to adhere itself to and what not to? Because everything has personality (was that lesson 2 or 3?) and the basis of personallity IMO assumes that something has logical thought. So logically, the essense would not place itself into something that will be digested.
She's organising..whatch out....oh no she's gonna blow!!!:jumprope:

[Earthy]

I'm off to bed now..but i'm not going to sleep,cos you've got me thinking about all kinds of stuff now sis.
I don't like to think!!!:wah2:

[Tzhebee]

It's all Shanti' fault! :p

[Shanti]

I'm off to bed now..but i'm not going to sleep,cos you've got me thinking about all kinds of stuff now sis.
I don't like to think!!!:wah2:
:smoochypo Its ok...turn the brain off, close your eyes and slip into a peaceful quite sleep...shhhh....rest now....~sings lullaby~

[Dove]

Seriously, I refuse to think of atoms and stuff when I think of animism. Because quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me how many atoms or how big the atoms are, or who pulled who's quark....

Animism is a feeling. An emotion. An understanding in my heart, in my head and it just feels right to believe it...I agree with you Tz,
About Animism being more about feelings and intuitive “Spirit” awareness, then it is about Science.
And that’s a big reason why I have to struggle through every single lesson I do here. :bangyourh

I’ve simply never ever given any thought to “Why” a tree has it’s own spirit, it’s own voice, it’s own personality…. It simply Does!!

But through the struggle to dissect the “why’s”... and my “feelings“ about the whys, and then come up with “plausible arguments” as to why I feel the way I feel … I’m learning lots and lots along the way.

But truthfully ... In the end … when it’s all said and done … and the lessons are completed … and the tests are taken, and the grades are given …

What grade I receive … and where I stand “in the class” won’t change at all how I feel,
Or what I believe about the essence of life being in ALL things!!
Even a fleck of sawdust.

But the time spent here each day ….
And sharing ideas and thoughts with one another … the fun, the laughs … and getting to know you all a tiny bit better, will be far and away … (for me anyway)
The reward for the struggle. :clapping:

[Tzhebee]

*snerk* ***slips up quietly behind Shanti and Earthy***

TEST!!!!!

***runs out of thread***

[Tzhebee]

Awwww....Shanti! Looky what Dove wrote....

She' getting me all misted up! She's all smushy and sweet today....

Dove - I luvers you! :smooch:

[Shanti]

I agree with you Tz,
About Animism being more about feelings and intuitive “Spirit” awareness, then it is about Science.
And that’s a big reason why I have to struggle through every single lesson I do here. :bangyourh

I’ve simply never ever given any thought to “Why” a tree has it’s own spirit, it’s own voice, it’s own personality…. It simply Does!!

But through the struggle to dissect the “why’s”... and my “feelings“ about the whys, and then come up with “plausible arguments” as to why I feel the way I feel … I’m learning lots and lots along the way.

But truthfully ... In the end … when it’s all said and done … and the lessons are completed … and the tests are taken, and the grades are given …

What grade I receive … and where I stand “in the class” won’t change at all how I feel,
Or what I believe about the essence of life being in ALL things!!
Even a fleck of sawdust.

But the time spent here each day ….
And sharing ideas and thoughts with one another … the fun, the laughs … and getting to know you all a tiny bit better, will be far and away … (for me anyway)
The reward for the struggle. :clapping:
Of course you are not going to change what you believe!!!!
Science was brought in because science itself is starting to question the possibilities that we already believe. Plus it opens doors for someone who feels more than just a tree or rock had something. Some animist do go down to the tiny bits of matter and believe that each one has something. Animism is very big and I want to have a class thats thorough.
The future lessons will be looking at actual cultures and practises and the differant variables between people. Also, how animism fits into so many ways of life.
I didnt want a crash course in animism..I wanted to provide a total course in animism, no matter what the individual interest are. As a whole their are studants that have so many differant interest here, science, mathamaticle, religious and athiest!!
So I hope your not to over whelmed....I want doors open so everyone can find what fits them no matter what their interest is. :)

[Dove]

As I said Shanti …
Through the struggle to dissect the “why’s”... and my “feelings“ about the whys, and then come up with “plausible arguments” as to why I feel the way I feel … I’m learning lots and lots along the way.

I’m not sorry that my beliefs ( in what I’ve since learned has a name … “Animism”) … are taking me along a path in Science … I only said that for me personally …. It’s a struggle.

But believe me … if I weren’t thoroughly loving the way the whole class is stretching my brain, in ways I didn’t even think it would stretch ….
I wouldn’t still be here.
My beliefs won’t change, but I sincerely love all the things that I’m learning in connection with them.

Thank you for this class.

[IshtarDarkmist]

Okay...I have one. We eat a cookie. That cookie has essence or spirit from what it was...Are we then absorbing the spirit of the cookie???

Not to make anyone sick, but I have heard that a very long time ago there was a tribe of cannibals who would eat the flesh of their enemies to gain their power. Or some other group (I can't recall who at this point) eating certain parts of a killed animal to gain power over it...

So...I guess what I am saying or maybe wondering is...Do I now have some of the spirit of a cookie??? :bug:

[Shanti]

As I said Shanti …
Through the struggle to dissect the “why’s”... and my “feelings“ about the whys, and then come up with “plausible arguments” as to why I feel the way I feel … I’m learning lots and lots along the way.

I’m not sorry that my beliefs ( in what I’ve since learned has a name … “Animism”) … are taking me along a path in Science … I only said that for me personally …. It’s a struggle.

But believe me … if I weren’t thoroughly loving the way the whole class is stretching my brain, in ways I didn’t even think it would stretch ….
I wouldn’t still be here.
My beliefs won’t change, but I sincerely love all the things that I’m learning in connection with them.

Thank you for this class.
I just feel bad. I dont want anyone to struggle so. The nasty part is over!! There are students that didnt explain whys or hows and are still understood!!! In fact not one student was not understandable. And your post are always so great...I love your post. I;m sorry the science was an issue for you. I coundnt tell by your answers as they were great!!
The future lessons wont be so pickyish. They should be fun. :bigblue:

[WickedBttrfly]

I think some of the essence stays with each object made from the tree. It morphs into something new, but the old essence is still there too. Whether it's a toothpick or a table, it has the same amount of the old essence. Only it's something more than the original essence now.

[WickedBttrfly]

So...I guess what I am saying or maybe wondering is...Do I now have some of the spirit of a cookie??? :bug:

Well, you know what they say..."You are what you eat."

[IshtarDarkmist]

Ohhhh so thats what all that is behind me...dough...I am one with the spirit of the cookie.

[seastone81]

What if bits and peices of the essence of the whole tree follow all the little parts it becomes? So if you have 1 million toothpicks, then you basically have the equivolent of one tree essence?

But then I'd have to say that there is SOMETHING lost when a tree becomes a million toothpicks... maybe the cool stuff leaves with the leaves? :-P

[WickedBttrfly]

Well, I don't really think essence is measurable in the way that physical things are, but no. When the tree is cut up it dies, and its spirit goes...somewhere. It still leaves some essence in everything though... I probably just confused a bunch of people...I think I confused myself. lol

[WickedBttrfly]

Ohhhh so thats what all that is behind me...dough...I am one with the spirit of the cookie.

lol I guess I am one with the spirit of pizza right now..oh and don't forget custard donut...

[IshtarDarkmist]

KFC spirit....hehe

[Tzhebee]

I don't think food has essense....I explained it before in one of the lessons. Like styrofoam, if you can't find it in it's natural state, then it has no essense (typically). So, since I can't walk through the woods and trip over a naturally growing choc. chip cookie tree, then it has no essense.

Anyway. Here is my newest thought. My mom lives about 5 miles out of town on 5 acres of orchard/field land. No really in "the sticks" but it is considered country. She has horses, cats, dogs, fishes and random wild animals. She also has a lot of flies. I live 6 miles away, in town and I have no flies...well, maybe one or two.

So, I drop my kids off at my moms to catch thier buses to school and take baby inside. As I drive off, I notice I have a couple flies in my car. About 3 miles down the road, the flies fly out of the car...which got me thinking.... :hmmmmm:

Do flies get scared? Did I just essentially kid-nap that fly, tear it away from it's family, it's home, the only place it has ever known? Does the fly even realize it's lost? Does it even care?

The average life span of a fly is only 3 days. And here, I just uprooted a fly from it's place of security....with only 3 days to live, the fly does not need this kind of disturbance!!!! So, now I'm sitting at work stressing over a bloody fly!

[Shanti]

I don't think food has essense....I explained it before in one of the lessons. Like styrofoam, if you can't find it in it's natural state, then it has no essense (typically). So, since I can't walk through the woods and trip over a naturally growing choc. chip cookie tree, then it has no essense.

Anyway. Here is my newest thought. My mom lives about 5 miles out of town on 5 acres of orchard/field land. No really in "the sticks" but it is considered country. She has horses, cats, dogs, fishes and random wild animals. She also has a lot of flies. I live 6 miles away, in town and I have no flies...well, maybe one or two.

So, I drop my kids off at my moms to catch thier buses to school and take baby inside. As I drive off, I notice I have a couple flies in my car. About 3 miles down the road, the flies fly out of the car...which got me thinking.... :hmmmmm:

Do flies get scared? Did I just essentially kid-nap that fly, tear it away from it's family, it's home, the only place it has ever known? Does the fly even realize it's lost? Does it even care?

The average life span of a fly is only 3 days. And here, I just uprooted a fly from it's place of security....with only 3 days to live, the fly does not need this kind of disturbance!!!! So, now I'm sitting at work stressing over a bloody fly! Well TZ...does it to you? I personally dont think a fly thinks that way.
As for you being worried that you dont think styrofoam is anything more than just syrofoam and that would affect the test......wrong woman. Your perfectly fine with your perspectives!!!! :)

[Tzhebee]

Why don't you think a fly thinks that way? Is it because if a fly had feelings, then you would feel bad for splatting them with a fly-swatter? It is guilt that makes you think that? Or does no animal have feelings and thought like a human? Or is it just annoying little animals/insects/whatever that do not have that type of thought capacity?

Don't worry, I ask myself these questions also...because I feel sorry for the lost fly, but I can smoosh a spider not problem! :lol:

See....these are the stupid things I think about during the day when I haven't had my coffee yet. :razz:

[Shanti]

Why don't you think a fly thinks that way? Is it because if a fly had feelings, then you would feel bad for splatting them with a fly-swatter? It is guilt that makes you think that? Or does no animal have feelings and thought like a human? Or is it just annoying little animals/insects/whatever that do not have that type of thought capacity?

Don't worry, I ask myself these questions also...because I feel sorry for the lost fly, but I can smoosh a spider not problem! :lol:

See....these are the stupid things I think about during the day when I haven't had my coffee yet. :razz:
Well TZ, I think that any thinking process in an insect and any emotion, would be totally differant than us, and since I never had been an insect ( not that I know of anyhow) I think it is beyond my capability to understand what goes on inside them,,,for now anyway. As for swatting a fly...oh well. Territorial fighting has existed in animals since the beginning of their time and if a fly is in my territory, I will attack and win!!! :)

[tygherrayn]

I don't think food has essense....I explained it before in one of the lessons. Like styrofoam, if you can't find it in it's natural state, then it has no essense (typically). So, since I can't walk through the woods and trip over a naturally growing choc. chip cookie tree, then it has no essense.

Okay .. so chocolate chip cookies may not have an essence .. but what about an apple? An orange? A peach? Strawberries? They're in their natural state when you eat them.

[WickedBttrfly]

Tz i worry about that stuff too, so dont feel bad. lol think of it this way, the fly got to see the world before it died...

[IshtarDarkmist]

TZ I have often wondered about uprooting a fly...However, I feel no guilt in swatting the little buggers. I think if I moved into a spiders web it would bite me...Therefore, if an insect comes into my "territory" it is asking for it :Swat: Anywho..., I think it's the little buggers that get stuck on a plane that get real confused. Especially if say, they left Florida and flew to Maine...

[IshtarDarkmist]

I'm just curious about what I menchioned earlier. Has anyone else heard about a tribe of cannibals that would eat their enemies to gain there power. Or did I read that in a scifi book???

[OrionNeb87]

I'm just curious about what I menchioned earlier. Has anyone else heard about a tribe of cannibals that would eat their enemies to gain there power. Or did I read that in a scifi book???

I heard of warriors eating the brains to gain power so I guess they would eat the bodies too. I'm currently reading a book about the Aztecs and they would eat the bodies of their sacrifice victims to gain their strength. Especially if the victim was a well known warrior.

[IshtarDarkmist]

I tend to have a vivid imagination and I wasn't sure if I was remembering a book...does dog hair leave an essence??? It is part of the dog? If so I have essence all over the place.

[Shanti]

I tend to have a vivid imagination and I wasn't sure if I was remembering a book...does dog hair leave an essence??? It is part of the dog? If so I have essence all over the place.
I have on dog with some strong essance...he leaves a nasty B.O all over the place!!! :weirdsmil

[WickedBttrfly]

I have a kitten who has spurts of stinky essence comin out of his butt every 5 seconds lol.

[IshtarDarkmist]

My Rotty burps...is that considered essence too? (I never heard a dog burp before I got him. lol)

[Shanti]

My Rotty burps...is that considered essence too? (I never heard a dog burp before I got him. lol)
My Pitt burps to....LOL:reindeer:

[IshtarDarkmist]

I didn't even know dogs could do that until about 2 years ago...lol. He walked right over to me and burped. :jawdrop:

[Tzhebee]

Okay .. so chocolate chip cookies may not have an essence .. but what about an apple? An orange? A peach? Strawberries? They're in their natural state when you eat them.
YES! Natural fruits are in thier natural state when I eat them (plus or minus a few pesticides, etc.), and my body temporarily obsorbs thier essense! That is why an apple in the morning will wake you up better than caffine. Sure, nutritionists will say it is the natural suger content vs. the caffine, but I know that it is really because of the essense of the apple I am eating is now in my body and helping to rejuvinate me.

Also, a banana. I eat banana's when I have muscle craps. It's the potassium (sp?) in the banana that helps aleviate my cramps....but without the essense of the banana to lead it to my cramp, how does it work?

Watermelon....it's a messy essense...it's likes it that way! I mean, when you eat food, you are typicall very clean and not letting it run down your chin like an infant...but with watermelon, it all goes out the door! You are drooling, spitting, slurping, It's great!!! The watermelon essense is allowing you to be a kid again, even if just a bite at a time! :fpartyfav

[IshtarDarkmist]

YES! Natural fruits are in thier natural state when I eat them (plus or minus a few pesticides, etc.), and my body temporarily obsorbs thier essense! That is why an apple in the morning will wake you up better than caffine. Sure, nutritionists will say it is the natural suger content vs. the caffine, but I know that it is really because of the essense of the apple I am eating is now in my body and helping to rejuvinate me.

Also, a banana. I eat banana's when I have muscle craps. It's the potassium (sp?) in the banana that helps aleviate my cramps....but without the essense of the banana to lead it to my cramp, how does it work?

Watermelon....it's a messy essense...it's likes it that way! I mean, when you eat food, you are typicall very clean and not letting it run down your chin like an infant...but with watermelon, it all goes out the door! You are drooling, spitting, slurping, It's great!!! The watermelon essense is allowing you to be a kid again, even if just a bite at a time! :fpartyfav

Oranges are like watermelon...they have the same effect.

[Tzhebee]

Oranges are like watermelon...they have the same effect.
No...they don't. Oranges (and any other citrus) are here strickly to tease and torment me...

They know that I cannot eat them, yet they present themselves to me daily! They are the meanie fruits. :fishsmack

BTW, I have severe acid reflux, which is why I cannot eat citrus...in case you were wondering.

[tygherrayn]

YES! Natural fruits are in thier natural state when I eat them (plus or minus a few pesticides, etc.), and my body temporarily obsorbs thier essense! That is why an apple in the morning will wake you up better than caffine. Sure, nutritionists will say it is the natural suger content vs. the caffine, but I know that it is really because of the essense of the apple I am eating is now in my body and helping to rejuvinate me.

Also, a banana. I eat banana's when I have muscle craps. It's the potassium (sp?) in the banana that helps aleviate my cramps....but without the essense of the banana to lead it to my cramp, how does it work?

Watermelon....it's a messy essense...it's likes it that way! I mean, when you eat food, you are typicall very clean and not letting it run down your chin like an infant...but with watermelon, it all goes out the door! You are drooling, spitting, slurping, It's great!!! The watermelon essense is allowing you to be a kid again, even if just a bite at a time! :fpartyfav

I totally love your thinking in this, Tz.

[IshtarDarkmist]

Sorry TZ, I have some friends who have the same thing. It's awful. Oranges, and peaches, however, are very messy fruits...I don't think I have eaten either without a mess...Or maybe I'm still a kid inside..lol