Curious about Pantheism.....

[MorningDove030202]

http://www.pantheist.net/ : Pantheism holds that the cosmos, taken or conceived of as a whole, is synonymous with the theological principle of God. The Cosmos is divine, and the earth sacred.

Q1: I'm just wondering in what modern new pagan religous movement is pantheism most prevelent.

I posted my tree again, as a reference, so if you don't understand what my voting options mean, take a peek at my tree. It's not perfect, but it's my humble attempt to make sence of the various new pagan religious movements....

Q2: Also, Doesn't Pantheism sound very earth based? I mean when I say earth based, this is a good example of what I mean, what do you think? Is it earth based?

Q3: One more question, and one be humanist and a Pantheist?

Dove

[SylverStar]

Since you made the poll muti-choice I choose witch, neo-pagan, and other (I follow a lot of the hindu dharma as well).

I'm not really sure about the answer to question one, because to me pantheism seems to be one of those inner beliefs.

Question two: Pantheism can be earth based but I do not think it has to be. If you were to consider my belief in Brahman panthiest (which I do) I would really associat that with an earth basis.

Question three: yes. Ok I never really new what humanist was until it was posted in Nallia's thread. I guess I could consider myself a humanist since I believe that we our divine (we have that power), but also that the divine is in each of us. It just a matter of realization.

[equinox2]

Q2: Also, Doesn't Pantheism sound very earth based? I mean when I say earth based, this is a good example of what I mean, what do you think? Is it earth based?


Yes, or more specifically, Nature-based. Also check out www.pantheism.net - they have good articles and a discussion board (which could use more activity!). I post there too sometimes.

Q3: One more question, (can) one be humanist and a Pantheist?

Absolutely. I am one in fact. I usually refer to my path as Naturalistic Paganism or Pagan Humanism. My path is consistent with Pantheism. The links in my .sig describe my path in more detail, and here is a thread on it (please comment on the thread if you like).

http://www.paganforums.org/showthread.php?t=57102

May the light of a billion suns shine on your path-

[MorningDove030202]

Can you be pantheist and belive in seperate distinct Gods and Goddesses? Or are Gods and Goddess just manifestations of the divinity of the earth, and the universe?

Dove

[SylverStar]

Well I personally believe in seperate gods and goddesses just as I believe in seperate people. I believe we all have a part of the all in us but we are individuals.

[equinox2]

Hmmm. I find that hard to answer!

Pantheists believe that all of the Universe is sacred (or is God). I supposed that how one groups that Universe is arbitrary, so Pantheists could have separate “Gods” - like the earth is one “God”, Venus (the planet) is another “God”, etc (or maybe that all rocks/solids are one god, that all liquids/oceans are another god, that all energy is another god,) etc. – but those gods are just natural things, not deities you could talk with or have tea with. For a Pantheist, God = Universe.

Someone who believes that all the Universe is sacred (and part of God), but that there is a supernatural component to God in addition to the physical universe is called a Panentheist. So for a Panentheist, God = Universe + supernatural.

I suppose either person could split the divine up into separate gods, just that the pantheist would do it without adding any supernatural, and the panentheist would add some supernatural.

Make sense?

[cheddarsox]

I am a panentheist. I believe that the forces that keep every working together is the divine, but I never use the term god, because I feel that refers to a discreet entity. I do not believe the universe is god. Nor do I use the term supernatural, because I do not believe there is anything that works outside the laws of nature (which to me is the divine).

earth-based? for me, yes, I came to my beliefs due to my observations/experiences here on earth, but they extend beyond the earth as well.

cheddar

[Eclectic Celt]

this is me!lol

I am an eclectic solitary pagan.
Which means I follow all paths of the craft and chose what to follow, I work on my own (not in a coven) and pagan because I don't have a religion as such.

I was raised to be a christian,but I choose to look to the celtic pantheon for guidance and help because I am welsh! Although I do try to follow the wiccan rede and witches crede as best as i can.

That's it really hope htis helps you!lol

Blessed Be

[~ Monk ~]

I find a lot about pantheism resonates with me because of what it shares with philosophical Taoism - but I find it very difficult to see it as a religion.

[Psyche Ague]

I'm an Animist and a Pantheist.

[Lost_Sole]

I am not sure what i am walking yet but i know Pantheism looks like it might be a part of it.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Can you be pantheist and belive in seperate distinct Gods and Goddesses? Or are Gods and Goddess just manifestations of the divinity of the earth, and the universe?
Yes. I am a pantheist who believes in separate distinct Gods and Goddesses, who are ultimately part of One God and One Goddess, who are themselves ultimately part of one non-specific deific force which pervades every part of the universe.

My favorite analogy is that of the ocean. Say the ocean is the entire universe. And the ocean is also God. Everything in that ocean is God. We, humanity, are individual drops of water. We are separate, and can be taken separately, but ultimately we are part of the greater ocean. The gods and goddesses are waves -- they can also be looked at separately, and they stand out as distinct from the surface of the ocean, but ultimately they are part of the greater ocean as well. Everything is separate, and yet everything is one.

Confusing enough?

[Pandoras]

I identify as a Pagan witch and I guess I fall into the category of pantheists (and possibly henotheists as well). I believe that there is one supreme Divine and that multiple gods and goddesses are simply manifestations or aspects of that supreme Divine. I believe all gods are One. I worship this supreme Divine as say Hecate, Dionysus, Kali, and so forth, but I don't believe in them in a literal sense. I see them as universal archetypes that help me relate better to It within the confines of my human limitations.

I'm also somewhat of a pantheist. I believe that the Divine is all, that every existing entity (humans, animals, etc.) together, is a part of Divine. I do view the Divine in personal terms, having a personality, the ability to make decisions, able to interact with Its creation, and so forth. I also believe the Divine is both immanent and transcendent.

[Epona44]

I took a survey on Beliefnet once that place me 100 percent squarely in the neopagan and pagan camp.

It asked a bunch of belief related questions and created a match according to your answers. The next closest match as I recall, were several varieties of Buddhist.

Ya just never know. :drinking:

[SylvanFae]

Pantheist (non-Wiccan) Witch here.

You might be able to call pantheism Earth-based, but that's technically only part of the WHOLE that pantheism addresses. I'd call it Universe-based. =) It's not Earth-centric. ;)

I think humanism & pantheism go very well together. Don't humanists believe that humanity is ultimately responsible for itself - that we'll only reach our greatest potential if we believe in ourselves and help each other [rather than relying on gods to save us from ourselves]? Well in pantheism, "Thou art Goddess" and you would rely on each other, as well. We have only ourselves and our universe.

I also see the gods as archetypes, not actual beings that are observing & influencing from some other plane. And yet, I might worship (for lack of a better word) an individual part of the universe (the sun is awe-inspiring)... or 'befriend' a particular deity or pantheon, but it would still be part of the whole in my mind.

In my mind, all gods are not so much one god as part of the whole of divinity, which is the whole of everything that is (and was, and will be). Including you and me. =) The collective consciousness might be called the mind of God.

All of which is a bit odd for me, since I'm also on a shamanist path, which tends to be animistic. But that's the nature of the beast... shamans walk between the worlds, so I suppose I can have both beliefs at the same time. *laughs*

[Alexandra Asinine]

Pantheism is not necessarily Earth based. Sometimes Pantheism can be tied to the Mysteries, with nature serving as a metaphor for the Mysteries, rather than being worshipped.

[LacyRoze]

Yes. I am a pantheist who believes in separate distinct Gods and Goddesses, who are ultimately part of One God and One Goddess, who are themselves ultimately part of one non-specific deific force which pervades every part of the universe.

My favorite analogy is that of the ocean. Say the ocean is the entire universe. And the ocean is also God. Everything in that ocean is God. We, humanity, are individual drops of water. We are separate, and can be taken separately, but ultimately we are part of the greater ocean. The gods and goddesses are waves -- they can also be looked at separately, and they stand out as distinct from the surface of the ocean, but ultimately they are part of the greater ocean as well. Everything is separate, and yet everything is one.

Confusing enough?
Confusing?? Heck no!!! This makes total sense to me. Thank you Ben!!

[Morrighan61]

I'm not certain how to answer this as my definition of "pantheism" isn't quite in line with the accepted idea of it.

I do believe that the divine is in everything, literally, but not necessarily in the classical "animalistic" sense. A lot of Christians tend to see "God" as outside of Creation and that is why a great many of them have no real sense that they are responsible for taking care of it. I see "Diety" as beyond Creation, but also "in" creation as any artist is "in" his or her creation...

Creation as we know it is the "work" of one, or more Beings with the capacity to create on a scale humans can't even begin to imagine. We call those Beings "Gods" and bow to them in respect for their talent, but like any good artist who makes something our "God/dess" has also left an imprint in this great work for us to see if we have the will and eyes to only LOOK.

I suppose you could call it a sort of cosmic DNA?

EVERYTHING in existence links back in many, many ways to other things. There's a ripple effect that is almost impossible to determine in some cases because it's just so immense...In that sense we, the planets, the stars, ALL things living or not share a common denominator. It's just a part of EVERYTHING and yes, in that sense "God" is panthestic, IN everything....

I personally can't look at something as simply as a rock without seeing the true artistry of the Creator, and whatever name I might be using for Her/ Him simply doesn't matter really. It's just me putting a label on it all...

That rock, when I think of all that went into making it the thing that is is now?

It humbles me...

To look at a human hand?

To understand what a miracle it is?

Boggles the mind...

Don't even get me started on the awe I feel looking at a baby....

I'm not sure that's a good explanation but it's the only one I am capable of I think...

Make of it what you will...

Morrighan

[cheddarsox]

"Diety" as beyond Creation, but also "in" creation as any artist is "in" his or her creation...



Morrighan

There is a term for this belief, panentheism. That the divine is in creation, but also exists itself beyond creation.

I vascilate as to whether the divine has any existence beyond its presence in all of creation. My idea of the divine is that it manifests in the natural laws that cause all to interrelate, all the forces of the universe that keep it happening are the divine. Because of this, I am not sure if the divine exists without that which it works through, not sure it can or needs to...

cheddar

[Akhkharu Asgard]

This may seem basic, but wouldn't true pantheists hold everything sacred? If god(s) and/or goddess(es) were *everything* that would mean you would have to hold *everything* sacred and not treat anything with any less sacredness (did I just make up a word?) than another. I know it may sound goofy, but it's hard for me to hold my breakfast as sacred and wouldn't that qualify, if your deity was *everything*? Correct me if i'm wrong please.

[cheddarsox]

Yes, I hold everything sacred. I do not have a deity. I do not see my breakfast as a deity, but it has the divine in it, and it is sacred. I believe everything is sacred, but that does not mean I am always recognizing the sacredness, I get involved/lost in my own thought and often fail to notice the sacredness.

I do not worship things, as much as I worship the powers/laws/forces that cause the things to be, and to interact. I am awestruck by that, and yes, if I am paying attention, I am awestruck by the wonderful complexity of the things themselves.

For me, worship is the natural reflex response to my recongnizing the sacredness. I don't have to set aside time, or assume a special position to worship, I just have to allow myself to notice the sacredness and the worship flows.

I do not consider things to be gods or godesses, I do not have such deities in my belief system. The laws/forces/divine have no personality or even a specific name, so it is quite different than most other theistic religions.

Ultimately, you are correct that I hold all sacred and do not treat anything with less sacredness. That is the big picture of my belief system. I also need not treat anything with more sacredness. I try to stay aware of how everything fits into the big picture. Not seeing things as profane has really opened up my eyes. Seeing myself as part of it all, truly no less and no more, has been profoundly freeing.

Not all pantheist feel as I do, but I know many who do. Hopefully, others will chime in here and offer some other perspectives.

cheddar

[Nucleous]

I personally don't see Pantheism as a religion as it is more of a way of life. Before settling on pantheism, I tried on many different "hats", and pouring myself into molds. I chose no religion because I don't see it that way, it's more of a life style I lead; that I have always lead.
Is it earth based, well, sort of for me. Earth is just part of it with it's presence being my firsthand, tangible, "idol". I worship the earth because of the bounty it supplies for life, but the cosmos hold no less importance to me in the sceme of the circle.
Though I do feel the divine is in all and everyone, I wouldn't go as far as to say that we are "god". I preferr to think of it as we are all one. Many parts that complete a vast and great whole.

[StarSpiral]

I don't see my pantheism as a religion but as a way of seeing the Divine which dovetails nicely into my religion (Paganism). My faith in Earth based which as a pantheist, seeing everything as Divine, only makes sense.

Can you be pantheist and belive in seperate distinct Gods and Goddesses? Or are Gods and Goddess just manifestations of the divinity of the earth, and the universe?
I see Gods and Goddesses as archetypes humans use to understand and connect with the Divine, not as conscious entities unto themselves.

I know it may sound goofy, but it's hard for me to hold my breakfast as sacred and wouldn't that qualify, if your deity was *everything*? Correct me if i'm wrong please.
My breakfast (though not healthy today) is most certainly sacred. It is the result of the miracle of life, sprouting seeds, and people's hard work. By eating it I am connecting myself to the cycle of life and death. To me a big part of pantheism is being conscious of how everything is connected.