:( *sighs and shakes head*

[angelicwitch1983]

oy, ever had a thing like this happen to you? you have your 'complete idiots guide to wicca craft' out of your backpack cuz ur looking for something and then you have someone put down a piece of paper that says 'god is watching you' right on top of the book? :( i dont know what to think. i mean, i just decided to take this path since i feel i was born to take it. anyway, just wondering if you had something similar happen to you? :smash:

[Aine of the Fae]

The more open you become, the more often it will happen. I would have responded "yup, we were just talking about that this morning...."

[Terestai]

I'd fold it up and use it as a bookmark in my book. Then I'd thank them. :D An origami swan or paper airplane also sound good! I love when people give me bits of paper, regardless of what's written on them.

[Valkie]

My typical reply:
Thank you. I know, the Goddess watches too.

At least they weren't confrontational about it... or completely disrespectful.

[Lilith79]

I have to agree, at least they weren't rude about it. If you weren't out of the broom closet, you are now! :)

[kaosxmage]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

[Lilith79]

lol kaos!

[FlyingBear]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.
--Kaos


Woot! That reminds me of when I worked at a Metaphyscial shop here in town. We had a couple of artists who made medicine sheilds using hides and feathers and what not and we'd display them on the walls.

Anyway, one day this guy comes into the store and looks around for a few mintues. He then comes up to the desk and starts up on me about how terrible is it that we could even consider selling anything that an animal had suffered and died for. He went on for about 15 mins, really working up a hot lather about how we as a spirtual community should know better and serve as an example, yadda yadda yadda.

I looked at him straight in the eye and said, " Is that a fact? Tell me sir, what are your shoes made of?"

He looked down at his feet, turned bright red and left the store. I suppose I would have been more sympathic to someone who wasn't wearing *leather*. :smileroll

[Cev'aq]

...
I looked at him straight in the eye and said, " Is that a fact? Tell me sir, what are your shoes made of?"

He looked down at his feet, turned bright red and left the store. I suppose I would have been more sympathic to someone who wasn't wearing *leather*. :smileroll
:lol: Good call!

[LadyTrinity]

You should correct it and say.. "Dont you mean MY god?" And SHE will kick your butt! :nyah:

[SacredWithin]

oy, ever had a thing like this happen to you? you have your 'complete idiots guide to wicca craft' out of your backpack cuz ur looking for something and then you have someone put down a piece of paper that says 'god is watching you' right on top of the book? :( i dont know what to think. i mean, i just decided to take this path since i feel i was born to take it. anyway, just wondering if you had something similar happen to you? :smash:

Well, seeing as I sometimes have problems expressing myself best in speech, I might have been like, "Yeah, and I'm sure He's watching you too. You know, God is too big to fit inside one religion, have you ever thoguht of that?!"

Of course, if I had time to write my thoughts, I wouldn't have been so mean. But that's something I need to work on. I need to wrok on saying what I really mean (like how I do online and in my writings) instead of simply going with the flow of my feelings. (I'm a Scorpio...) I get terribly annoyed that people still act this way at times. I get so worked up over these things regardless of which religion. :(

[~BEBZ~]

I have to agree, at least they weren't rude about it. If you weren't out of the broom closet, you are now! :)

They might not have been confrontational but I definitely consider that rude! I wonder how they would feel if we waited for them outside church and handed them pamphlet's with pent's and all sorts of Pagan or Wiccan propaganda on them? That would be disrespectful to their religion and beliefs. They would fell unsafe in their worshiping process.

Me, I would say something really nasty back to them and rip up the paper. I've had it with these people!!! I've had it with them telling me I'm going to hell, and I've had it with them thinking bible thumping is the only way! They can keep it to themselves! I don't want to hear their bull no more! They don't do that to Jews, Buddhists, or Muslims. Why? Because they have respect for their religions, but they have none for ours. Well until they do, I shall have no respect for theirs! I am openly waging war on these people. :meanhead:

This thread has actually given me a great idea. The Jehovah's Witness's are always coming to my house harassing me... I'm going to go put leaflets on their cars. Little taste of their own medicine.


Signed,

Fed up!

[Koehnae]

"Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"

--Kaos
I have GOT to remember that one.

*writes yet another mental note... I need a new mental notebook*

[fay]

I have GOT to remember that one.

*writes yet another mental note... I need a new mental notebook*
i could do with one of those, if you find one will you let me know? :nyah:
blessed be

i like the idea of using the paper as a paper aeroplane, thats funny

[Valkie]

ok, I know it's a bit off topic but.... I stopped trying to take mental notes when I was pregnant. I couldn't remember anything. I got a mini black and white composition book that I nicknamed my stupidity book. Keeped it with me all the time. Every time someone told me not to forget something... or I had to make a mental note, I put it in there.

[SacredWithin]

This thread has actually given me a great idea. The Jehovah's Witness's are always coming to my house harassing me... I'm going to go put leaflets on their cars. Little taste of their own medicine.


Signed,

Fed up!

I actually created a thread a few weeks ago (no buried) about how we should make our own pamphlets about the similarities between paganism and early Christianity and how everything came about. It was fun thinking about it. However, my lazyiness kicked in and I didn't start on the project yet (except for gathering info). :lol:

I too thought that scenario above was rude.

[Fideal]

I probably would have said something stupid back. Or not been able to speak due to increased levels of stupidity in the air.

If I knew who it was, I would start leaving papers on their things saying "Satan is watching you". Which would probably get me into more trouble that it's worth, but I don't think things through all the time.

[semi]

I have been called the Devil several times. I have been verbally assaulted for my beliefs numerous times because I'm very open about it. There have been attempted physical assaults. I have been spit on. All by these good church-going folk. But the one that sticks with me the most is the Born-Again who said to me "The difference between you and me is that you BELIEVE you're right, I KNOW I'm right." It's hard to debate someone who has such a firmly closed mind and narrow perspective. I don't try anymore. I don't care anymore. Reality will wake them someday.

I used to be anti-Christian because of these people but I have some good friends who are Christian. That's fine. It's the ones who preach to me that I can't tolerate. They seem just a law or two away from torches and a stake.

[Lunacie]

Actually Jews, Buddhists and Muslims have faced a great deal of discrimination, and for far longer than any of us. Even different sects of Christianity such as the Mormons face discrimination and attempted conversion.

[Holly Ariadna]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

If you guys say that about Christ, please don't go around complaining about us dissing you, aight? I didn't find that funny either, I find it disrespectful.

[Carickah]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

Great story... BTW, were you next to Oral when you saw that????:yayah:

on a strange but true note, I work out at the old City of Faith building....




k

[The High Queen of Faerie]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

that makes me smile. :)

[Lunacie]

If you guys say that about Christ, please don't go around complaining about us dissing you, aight? I didn't find that funny either, I find it disrespectful.
I thought it was an interesting comparison. It's not like Kaosxmage went up to someone reading a bible and told them that Jesus had defied his religious upbringing and died a horrible death because of that, eh? The guy who approached Kaosxmage was the one being disrespectful in my opinion.

The guy from the first post may not have been rude, but he was certainly pushy.

[Tarbh Nathroch]

It happens, even during holiday stuff. I live in a very small town. Just before Christmas every year a holiday town dinner is held at the civic building (it’s also the town hall and post office). It’s a good time. Everyone brings something and you get to hang out with your neighbors, meet the new people in town and basically have a good time.

One year a young boy comes up to me and hands me a pamphlet, he has a stack of them. Your typical hell and damnation stuff. Bla bla bla repent…bal bla bla your going to hell…and so on. So I ask him “who asked you to hand theses out?” “Pastor Steve did” he said. So I make my way over and well I’m an ass so. “Did you have these pasted out this evening?” Yes he says “What the hell is wrong with you? These people aren’t here to be assaulted by some religious zealot ass. We are all here for some holiday cheer and some good will toward our fellow man, for some sense of community. I see no holiday cheer in this, I see no good will. This is nightmare apocalypse crap and has no business at this dinner. You make me sick and I’m embarrassed for you.”

I tend to fly off the handle. I did K-8 in a Catholic school so I have my Bible learning down. I’ve made missionaries cry.

[moonchild]

I have been called the Devil several times. I have been verbally assaulted for my beliefs numerous times because I'm very open about it. There have been attempted physical assaults. I have been spit on. All by these good church-going folk. But the one that sticks with me the most is the Born-Again who said to me "The difference between you and me is that you BELIEVE you're right, I KNOW I'm right." It's hard to debate someone who has such a firmly closed mind and narrow perspective.


my response to that one would be something like...."so that's what it's like to have a closed mind..."

[Holly Ariadna]

I thought it was an interesting comparison. It's not like Kaosxmage went up to someone reading a bible and told them that Jesus had defied his religious upbringing and died a horrible death because of that, eh? The guy who approached Kaosxmage was the one being disrespectful in my opinion.

The guy from the first post may not have been rude, but he was certainly pushy.

There is no way you can compare Crowley to Jesus, but anyway, even if you could, don't you think there's a way of replying to someone who's been disrespectful WITHOUT being disrespectful as well?

[Lunacie]

There is no way you can compare Crowley to Jesus, but anyway, even if you could, don't you think there's a way of replying to someone who's been disrespectful WITHOUT being disrespectful as well?
Of course you can reply to someone who is being desrespectful without being disrespectful in return, but sometimes that's the only way to get across the point that the first person is in fact being disrespectful. But I don't blame Pagans who get so fed up with the barrage of "you're going to hell" that they react badly. When it comes to me in email I can either delete it or take my time writing a civil response. When it comes to me person - in public - it can be harder to remain civil.

I'm certainly not blaming all Christians for the actions of those who behave this way, but it seems you want to excuse them?

[Tarbh Nathroch]

don't you think there's a way of replying to someone who's been disrespectful WITHOUT being disrespectful as well?
Yes, I've given them credit for loving their god and believing so much that they do the missionary work, it’s hard to approach people, but I have my beliefs and hold them as they do theirs. Then they just want to talk more. The rude way is more fun and makes them go way faster. I tend to cycle through the different ways to be.

[9-2-2]

I remember back in high school, everyone thought I was Satanic. Random people came up to me, saying, "I will pray for you!"...

... and I said back (with ominously wicked grin of calm), "I will pray for you too." Hey, sometimes it's fun to play their game. :bad:

[Katya]

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

yeah, Tulsa does have it's share of people who build buildings because a 10 ft jesuses telling them to. :smileroll

[IndigoMoon]

If you guys say that about Christ, please don't go around complaining about us dissing you, aight? I didn't find that funny either, I find it disrespectful.


Christians diss witches constantly. That's been going on since the begining of christianity. That's the very nature of christianity as a religion.

[Threase]

Yeah, that kind of thing used to happen to me a lot... I still have some Catholic friends that keep talking about how they'll pray for my soul... I just thank them... I mean hey, they're sending me positive energy, even if they don't know it...

[Fideal]

There is no way you can compare Crowley to Jesus, but anyway, even if you could, don't you think there's a way of replying to someone who's been disrespectful WITHOUT being disrespectful as well?

People who follow Crowley's teachings might disagree with you. Why is only bad to diss the head figure of your religion, but fine to diss others? Other people might feel the same way about Jesus that you feel about Crowley.

[Wolf O Volos]

YAY! My kind of thread.... LOL. Because I can turn on the rant-o-matic and jump on the good ol soapbox for THIS one.

First of all.... kids, lets not turn this into a discussion on who's god is better than who's.... we all have our own personal realtionships with divinity, and that is for a reason. Divinity speaks to us as individuals. What Volos wants me to do with my life may be entirely different than what Morrighan wants you to do with yours, eh?
And for those of you who had the great comments about taking the high road... bravo. Although I myself fell victim to being a *jerk* when something similar happened to me.
See, I was shopping at my local Wal-Mart, and I have been very open with my pagan-ness for as long as I have heard the call of the goddess. Just seems like I *should* be proud that she called to me, you know? Anyways, I am going through the check-out lane, and the cashier sees my pentacle. "Oh, what is THAT around your neck?" she asks me. "My pentacle, of course" I replied back with a smile.... "OH.... Your one of those devil worshipping Wiccans aren't you???" she gasps as she is ringing up my items. I was shocked. "satan? excuse me, I know of that christian belief, but don't follow it..." She smirked at me, told me my final cost, and pulled a necklace of her own out. "I wear a STAR of my own, one more powerful and more meaningful than THAT one!" she says and proudly displays her Star of David. I hand her a 100dollar bill (it was payday folks... honestly I am dirt poor...LOL), and say nothing more... choosing to end the confrontation, even though I was steaming from my ears... She is *so* into her rant that she shoves a literal *cubic buttload* of religious propaganda and paraphanalia into my hands, along with the reciept, and ignores the customers behind me in line as she continues to shout at me as I walk away about burning in hell, and saving my soul before all was lost. I realize, as I am flushing all the more red, she did not give me my change back, which was a healthy amount of 42dollars and 13cents, so I walk cooly back to her checkout, to which she replies, "You come back to hear the word of god then?"... "Ermmm, no, you forgot to give me my change, and I figured these materials would be better off in the hands of someone who would willingly accept them". She and I have a few words as she is also now trying to accuse me of being a theif... *yes, seriously* she thinks I have recieved my change back, and am trying to get an additional 42.13..... LOL. So, I ask her if her manager would like for her and I to go discuss her sudden need to rant from the pulpit, to which she immediately shuts down her lane and begins to count her till. Once she realizes I am not a liar, nor a theif, she hands me my change, and adds that she was blessing the money with the power of god that he may yet save my soul. Gods, the woman was *persistant!* if nothing else. Well, I walked out of there cursing under my breath, and thinking really evil thoughts about all of these people who were so ignorant and damned self righteous... and maybe even glowered at a man who walked in the store as I was exiting, just because he said something like God sure has blessed us with a beautiful night tonight...

And the moral to my long winded story, you may be asking? Well, here: I found myself later thinking about how poorly I had cast a light on all of the followers of God. Whether or not I believe as they do, I know in my heart of hearts they have just as much a right to their beliefs as I do. And all of that negative energy I raised over it... /sigh/.... Imagine the dismay when I found I was acting on the same level as the wal-mart cashier... Not only that, but by being such a rude punk in response to her ovations, I probably only further damaged her views of all of my other Pagan brothers and sisters she will ever meet. /deeper sigh/... So, when someone decides they want to save you, or calls you something heinous and disrespectful, please bear in mind that your actions reflect directly on that for which you stand. Being confrontational does nothing but inspire more confrontation. And if you want everyone to think that all of us pagans are a spiteful bunch of satanic baby killers who sacrifice virgins under the light of a full moon... I suppose you can be evil and say something mean and hateful... But, after *my* Wal-Mart incident, I have decided that the only way these people will ever leave me, and others like me alone, is through education. So...instead of a curt little response, as in "My Pentacle"... I go off on a rant, similar to this one ( :D ) and explain to them the symbolism of the elements, and the fifth tine being spirit over the elements, and how the Star was a symbol of protection, and how Wicca and paganism are all nature based religions... and keep going if they remain interested... and if they fall asleep... LOL, the better for me to sneak away as they dream of goddesses and beautiful cerimonies held under light of the moon...

**it is my belief that the ONLY way we will ever be understood, and respected, is to respect and understand our fellow human beings... no matter HOW bad you wanna hit em with a curse that makes em brek out with a rash all over their bodies**

( Falls off of the soap-box, exhausted, and crawls for the exit)

[Valkie]

I was going to poke you for the wal-mart thing... but I can't poke you yet. Anyways... I for one love it when you get one your soap box... at the least it's funny and at it's best it's funny and educational. :hugz:

[Pol]

(note to self after reading the first page: paganometry 101..expect others to respect your religion, but do not respect theirs)

[Wolf O Volos]

LOL.... thanks Valkie, I would hug ya... but ermmm... You were about to POKE me... :P I appreciate that someone actually enjoys me getting my vent on.... As I am new here, for the most part, I am gonna do my best to keep the soap-boxings to a minimum... just wanted to make sure that when there was something I felt strongly about to be said, I said it... how else you folks gonna get to know me? :D

[Sith]

When I was in college, I had a period of depression (bad stuff happened). I was walking from intro to anthropolgy to psych of women when some guy comes up to me and asks, "Are you OK?" I said fine. He then asks, "Do you know Jesus?" Being annoyed and hungry, I tell him, "Nope. He died over 1900 years before I was born." He gave me a wierd look and wished me a good day. :smash:

[moria636]

I was in Books A MIllion (keep in mind I live in a southern town so BIble belt)
I was in the new age section... a man walked up to me.."your into this?" I responed yes... been studying for years, im looking for a new book to add to my librarie...
he says what does new age mean?....how long has this been around.... I say a long time.. before christianity.... he says exactly... whats the point in regressing so many years... why not be in the now and learn about jesus...
I was blank...
I said have a good day sir and went on with my business...

But at least he was'nt horribly rude...

once I actually had kids chase me in high school... "shes a witch..shes a witch...Burn her"... laughing and throwing rocks....
I could'nt believe they were so childish....
I went to the office...and they did'nt get in any trouble...but I got scolded by office hands..for being a sinner...
????

I don't diss christians... I think its silly..
but some people... man... they scare me...

[Storm Moon]

When I was in college, I had a period of depression (bad stuff happened). I was walking from intro to anthropolgy to psych of women when some guy comes up to me and asks, "Are you OK?" I said fine. He then asks, "Do you know Jesus?" Being annoyed and hungry, I tell him, "Nope. He died over 1900 years before I was born." He gave me a wierd look and wished me a good day. :smash:

:yayah: :veryweird That's the best. You've told me that a hundred times but I love it :D :rollingla

[Holly Ariadna]

(note to self after reading the first page: paganometry 101..expect others to respect your religion, but do not respect theirs)

Thank you.

[Valkie]

Honestly, I don't see how the responses to this thread could be as disrespectful to the MW community. People are talking about experiences that they have had and how they handled it, or wish that they handled it. It's a vent. They've been confronted in a disrespectful way or straight out attacked by well meaning fundies. It's not about being disrespectful... and it's certinally not turning the other cheek, it's about trying to get those well meaning fundies a clue as to what it is that they are actually doing to another human being.

[equinox2]

OK, let’s not let this degrade into the all too common fight of Christians and Pagans each calling each other disrespectful of the other religion.

It’s a balance – on one hand, we Pagans are often subject to outright disrespect, and it’s ok for us to discuss that and recognize how hurtful and mean it is. (as Valkie and others have pointed out).

On the other hand, Pol and Holly are right – some Pagans can go too far, and do the same mean things in return, which is not justified.

Let’s all recognize that disrespect from either side is wrong – acknowledging when it happens, while keeping our own actions in line.

Love and light-

[Lunacie]

It's in the bible, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It's a law of nature, what goes around, comes around.

[~BEBZ~]

Christianity 101: Tell all others they're beliefs are wrong. Try to convert them. If they refuse, bash them and call them names. If anyone questions your faith, turn it back on them and say they are persecuting you.

PEACE :fpeace:

We have our right to tell our war stories and share our opinions.

[Kyan's Daddy]

oy, ever had a thing like this happen to you? you have your 'complete idiots guide to wicca craft' out of your backpack cuz ur looking for something and then you have someone put down a piece of paper that says 'god is watching you' right on top of the book? :( i dont know what to think. i mean, i just decided to take this path since i feel i was born to take it. anyway, just wondering if you had something similar happen to you? :smash:

Next time that happens, just say, "Yes, I know God is watching me... So is Goddess." Then smile sweetly and walk away.

[kaosxmage]

If you guys say that about Christ, please don't go around complaining about us dissing you, aight? I didn't find that funny either, I find it disrespectful.

First let me say, I don't go around dissing anyone ...well usually :D

I was in a metaphysical bookstore, not a stitch of christian writing on a single shelf, my kind of place. This man was in the store looking for converts or whatever ...sorry, I don't play that game. You find what I said disrespectful, and I simply don't care. I was sharing a similar tale about having a christ crusader stick their nose in my business. So allow me to clear this up:
Attention all christ crusaders: My soul is fine, don't worry about it, I have it under control. Now kindly, mind your own business, and don't go hunting in metaphysical bookstores for converts, you might get your feelings hurt.

Much love, :jamsessio
--Kaos

[Lunacie]

I'd say the fellow was putting himself in the way of getting his toes stepped on and shouldn't have been suprised when you obliged. I know some Pagans overreact when approached by evangelicals, but I don't know of any Pagans who hang out in the bible section of their local bookstore waiting to waylay Christians and convince them that they need to accept Pan as their god.:T Much less go into Christian bookstores deliberately intending to stir things up. I've worked in a Pagan bookstore and I've seen Christians come in looking for things to complain about. :mad:

[Pol]

Christianity 101: Tell all others they're beliefs are wrong. Try to convert them. If they refuse, bash them and call them names. If anyone questions your faith, turn it back on them and say they are persecuting you.

PEACE :fpeace:

We have our right to tell our war stories and share our opinions.

I wonder, how many people have actually been bashed or called names?

The Christian religion is one of being uniquely right as they believe is commanded by their god. They're told to try to save others from damnation, and follow their religion.

[Lunacie]

I don't even think it has to come to bashing or name-calling. When someone refuses to accept that we don't care to hear their prosletyzing and they continue to try to convince us, that is also a form of persecution. They are saying in effect, "you're wrong and you're just too dumb to see what I'm telling you so I'm going to force you to agree."

Because I'm not a terribly public person or Pagan, I don't get this in real life, but I sure get this in my email box all the time.

[Wolf O Volos]

Look... I do not wanna have to pull out my soapbox 2 times in one thread... LOL... Lets all just take a look at the real issue here... a pagan is reading to herself, and someone, maybe out of the goodness of their heart, or some kind of self-righteous motivation, drops their two cents where the donation cup was not sitting. I think instead of sitting here talking about how well christians and pagans get along, we should offer her advice about what to do when it happens again.... and honestly, as many times as it has happened to me in the last 10 years... it *will* happen to her again, and she might want to know what to do to not be so frustrated... we are a community here, seems we could put the differences aside a while, and give some advice that might actually help... **just a thought**

[Pol]

Look... I do not wanna have to pull out my soapbox 2 times in one thread... LOL... Lets all just take a look at the real issue here... a pagan is reading to herself, and someone, maybe out of the goodness of their heart, or some kind of self-righteous motivation, drops their two cents where the donation cup was not sitting. I think instead of sitting here talking about how well christians and pagans get along, we should offer her advice about what to do when it happens again.... and honestly, as many times as it has happened to me in the last 10 years... it *will* happen to her again, and she might want to know what to do to not be so frustrated... we are a community here, seems we could put the differences aside a while, and give some advice that might actually help... **just a thought**

I agree.

My problem is how pagans are reacting, no better than the people they claim are acting incorrectly.

[Wolf O Volos]

Honestly? You would expect complacency from someone who is called a devil worshipper or a baby killer? Do you suppose that when all your aspirations are for the good that you can achieve from a one-ness with nature it does not sting when someone calls you *evil*? Just because you have a different way of seeing the God they choose to follow? I swore I would not allow myself to be "badgered" into going one side vs the other... so I am gonna take my lil blue chill pill. Just realize, when you hear something that so offends you often enough, it begins to sting more and more... and finally, one day, you decide to fight back. If you were being slammed every day by the bully as you walked home from school... would you smile at him every time he approached and hold your arms out to him to make it easier to slam you? I do not really think so... eventually, you are going to be tired of being kicked around, and you are either going to speak out, or you are going to fight back... it is human nature. So do not act shocked when people are honestly offended when someone *force feeds* their beliefs down someone else's throat. "and that's all I wanna say about that" -Forrest Gump from Forrest Gump

[kaosxmage]

Put simply, love don't live here anymore. I leave the fundies of all colors and flavors alone, but as I stated, when they come into my world, they should at least know that I don't particularly care to hear what they have to say. Why should I? It should also be understood that I'm not a religious or pious person at all. I don't care what path somebody walks, just keep walking if all you care to do is preach. Typically, I ignore them, but when someone invades my personal space (as in my story) they are asking to get bit. To be honest, I thought I was quite nice about it. What do you think I'm supposed to do? A stranger walks up and puts their paws in my face, and what ...should I give em a hug? I thought about it ...I mean, christian men don't enjoy hugging strange non-christian men I'm sure ...but I sought to be blunt and point out just why one shouldn't rush to judgment. All my years within the occult community and that's the only incident where someone was rude, and I'm generally a nice guy ...but when the thumpers of da word come round ...remember, as I already stated, love don't live here anymore. Agree or not ...doesn't matter.

Stepping off soapbox,
--Kaos

[Pol]

Honestly? You would expect complacency from someone who is called a devil worshipper or a baby killer? Do you suppose that when all your aspirations are for the good that you can achieve from a one-ness with nature it does not sting when someone calls you *evil*? Just because you have a different way of seeing the God they choose to follow? I swore I would not allow myself to be "badgered" into going one side vs the other... so I am gonna take my lil blue chill pill. Just realize, when you hear something that so offends you often enough, it begins to sting more and more... and finally, one day, you decide to fight back. If you were being slammed every day by the bully as you walked home from school... would you smile at him every time he approached and hold your arms out to him to make it easier to slam you? I do not really think so... eventually, you are going to be tired of being kicked around, and you are either going to speak out, or you are going to fight back... it is human nature. So do not act shocked when people are honestly offended when someone *force feeds* their beliefs down someone else's throat. "and that's all I wanna say about that" -Forrest Gump from Forrest Gump

Well, look at it this way.
When a Christian calls a pagan a devil worshipper, their thoughts are only strengthened when they're treated badly in return. If pagans are peaceful nature loving individuals, let them act as such and change the way people view them. It's not just Christians that think pagans worship satan.

[Black RiverWolf]

I get weird looks all the time mostly from family. Mom has come around knowing full well that i never took the christian religion to heart. Dad was "follow your heart it will tell you right. I begining to think Daddy was a pagan in disguse. but as far as out in public i run into more pagan than christians. But what that person did wasn't right either. At my house we have two pagans. an it and a christain (my boyfriend). for one reason or another the woman across the street leaves us little notes on the porch. Brave person we have six Large dogs. My uncle who is a pastor thinks i need to turn to god (his version) but for the most part i just leave them alone.

[Wolf O Volos]

If someone is reading a book... that makes them a worshiper of the devil? Or that makes them lost little lambs that need to be returned to the flock? Then there better be some missionaries camped right outside of every library in America... or the world for that matter... LOL. **But seriously** enough of THAT debate, better served on another thread dont'cha think? I just hope the person who originated this post got some of the answers she was looking for before the Christian/Pagan rivalry broke out...

[WolfWonderess]

Whether Pagan or Christian, we're all PEOPLE.

Thus, neither side is perfect, far from it.

As people, we tend to react to some situations without thinking. It's very easy to say what you SHOULD do in a given situation, but the fact is, when it comes right down to that, and when emotions are stirred, reason tends to go out the window. When people are pushed, Pagan or Christian or whatever, they tend to push back.

I don't think a situation should be handled thus, personally, as yes, it throws a negative light on both parties: the pushy Evangelical and the snappy Pagan.

But, er, anyway...this thread was about *sharing* PAST experiences, if I do recall, right? No need to get upset over how someone handled a situation. It's over and done. All you can do is take those situations and learn from them for the future.

Anyhoo...carry on! XD

[mol]

ADMIN MODE

No bashing of other religions or personal Paths is allowed in this community. Discussion of Paths is allowed and disagreement is also allowed but the act of telling someone a Path is "invalid or wrong" (for example) is not allowed.

[moria636]

Im just gonna say no matter what if you choose to be outta the broom closet :broomride expect some really annoying experiences...from Ignerant people that are gonna think your life is like the t.v. show charmed or the movie the craft :goodgrief .... and your going to have converting christians that are trying to save you from damnation, or call you evil :flamer: ... just try not to lose your temper(not because its mean but because they never GET IT and they just drive you even more batty)....just kindly grit your teeth and find a way to be polite...its hard...but its not pretty when your really rude(they normally leave you alone quicker if you just less harsh.... they always want you to prove your self...why you chose this path)just ignore them"..people just bager you more....from my experience/...if someone asks you what your about tell them a bit.... and if you want people to not bother you as much try to draw less attention to yourself ( Does'nt sound like you do... I did...)/ or pay those that are bothering you no attention....(but some people can take only so much disrespect....even I.... so if it gets rediculess...let um have it!) ....not very helpful....but its 2 cents...

[Wolf O Volos]

Im just gonna say no matter what if you choose to be outta the broom closet :broomride expect some really annoying experiences...from Ignerant people that are gonna think your life is like the t.v. show charmed or the movie the craft :goodgrief .... and your going to have converting christians that are trying to save you from damnation, or call you evil :flamer: ... just try not to lose your temper....just kindly grit your teeth and find a way to be polite...its hard...but its not pretty when your really rude :noway: ...it just makes you look like an ass...."just ignore them"..people just bager you more....from my experience/...if someone asks you what your about tell them a bit.... and if you want people to not bother you as much try to draw less attention to yourself :reindeer: ....not very helpful....but its 2 cents...

if anyone actually read that first novel I posted here... I am pretty sure that is what I said... LOL... I agree Moria! **Kudos**

[Lunacie]

Well, look at it this way.
When a Christian calls a pagan a devil worshipper, their thoughts are only strengthened when they're treated badly in return. If pagans are peaceful nature loving individuals, let them act as such and change the way people view them. It's not just Christians that think pagans worship satan.

Ah well, here's the rub. Pagans and Wiccans are just as human as the followers of any other religion and we get just as pissed off with bullies and folks with a "better-than-us" attitude. We don't worship nature, we worship a wide variety of gods and goddesses and some of them have a reputation for being pretty fierce.

I bet you'd say that Christians don't worship the devil, but some of them have perpetrated some pretty horrific crimes in the name of their peaceful, loving God, eh? What are Christians doing to change the way the rest of the world views them? Whining because we won't take their crap sitting down and smiling at them?

[Amadore]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos

Haha, awesome come-back-ish-thing!! I wouldn't have been able to come up with something like that so quickly... it really made me laugh :)

[moria636]

if anyone actually read that first novel I posted here... I am pretty sure that is what I said... LOL... I agree Moria! **Kudos**

im sorry I did'nt read the entire thread :sorry: ....almost all....should of....but im really outta it today...I need coffie :javaswim: ....sorry to nedlessly reapeat....

[soilsigh aingeal]

Someone told me Jesus loves me when I walked out of a New Age book store once :rolleyes:

[Valkie]

Well, look at it this way.
When a Christian calls a pagan a devil worshipper, their thoughts are only strengthened when they're treated badly in return. If pagans are peaceful nature loving individuals, let them act as such and change the way people view them.

uhhhh, no. I can say no on this one 'cause I use to be one of those 'fundie bible bashers'... spent 3 years attending a church of fundie bible bashers... and heard all of the ideas that they had on paganism and such.

I don't know if I can say this loud enough for everyone to understand....As far as Fundies are concerned... If you are not a Fundie... you are going to hell!!! bottomline. This is one of the reasons I had such a hard time of understanding the idea of a christian witch when I can to this board. To me, Christian ment Fundie! The church that I went to taught that Catholics were going to hell, Unitarians were going to hell, Buddist, Hindu.. everyone else was going to hell.

The only reason that pagans were singled out for the majority of the contempt was because they were considered devil worshipers. We're going to hell, know it, and want to drag every other God loving Christian soul with us. Pagans weren't able to plead ignorance like the other religions... for pagans, it wasn't a matter of not knowing better, it was a matter of us knowing, not caring, and trying to bring others with us.

It doesn't matter how nicely we treat a Fundie... they will still think that we are going to hell. If your nice and actually become friends with one... (I say actually because most fundies are told by thier pastors not to even confront a pagan unless they are completely secure with God and are able to pull every scripture passage in the bible about paganism. Being friends with one is a complete no-no) they do it more because they love you and fear for your immortal soul.

Those people are fanatics. There is no if/and/or buts about it. They don't care if they hurt your feelings because they consider you sub-human if you reject thier first efforts or a possible convert that they can brag to the congegation about if you're nice. They are doing what they believe is God's work... how you behave towards them isn't going to change how they go about their 'christian duty'.

Fanatics of any religion are dangerous and to excuse an outright attack by a stranger with the idea that not all Christians are like that is irrelivent. No, not all Christians are like that... we know that from our own lives and from those Christians who are here on the board. It's not the point of being Christian, Pagan, or whatever you happen to be. It's about being attacked about your beliefs by a complete stranger. It's about others telling you to be nice to this complete stranger just because they're a Christian. Sorry, but most people will defend themselves against someone they have no reason to respect and the first thing out of thier mouth is disrespectful.

The thing that I find really disturbing is that one person's question of looking for similar experiences... who was just looking for validation of the way that she was feeling and help in understanding the whole thing... suddenly turned into an Us vs.Them for no reason what so ever and that this entire thread has lost it's original intent.

....I'm going to hide under my soapbox now. :yikess:

[~BEBZ~]

Well, look at it this way.
When a Christian calls a pagan a devil worshipper, their thoughts are only strengthened when they're treated badly in return. If pagans are peaceful nature loving individuals, let them act as such and change the way people view them. It's not just Christians that think pagans worship satan.

I really mean no disrespect, but I don't understand why a Christian would choose to be on a Pagan chat board??? :twitch:

[Lunacie]

Well, look at it this way.
When a Christian calls a pagan a devil worshipper, their thoughts are only strengthened when they're treated badly in return. If pagans are peaceful nature loving individuals, let them act as such and change the way people view them. It's not just Christians that think pagans worship satan.

Hmmm, backing up a couple of steps...

Why do you capitalize Christian but not Pagan? Isn't that disrespectful?

And do YOU believe that Pagans worship satan?

[Wolf O Volos]

Woah!!! You go Valkie!~ Soapboxing better than me at this point! And for the most, I agree... if you are minding your business, and someone *rudely* disturbs your study, no matter how well intentioned, it really is hard to bite your tongue... but me, I am a practitioner of killing em with kindness most of the time... do not give em any fuel, and they have no more fire ( as in Brimstone and hell fire! LOL)


Now darn it all, can't we all just get along??????> :huddle: Group hug...and Christians are welcome to join our lil circle... ;)

[moria636]

I agree with Valkie's take...
and...

VALKIE"The thing that I find really disturbing is that one person's question of looking for similar experiences... who was just looking for validation of the way that she was feeling and help in understanding the whole thing... suddenly turned into an Us vs.Them for no reason what so ever and that this entire thread has lost it's original intent."

...Im sorry for aiding in the loss of this threads original intent by sharing a pointless story of my experience instead of helping to validate her reaction...
I feel like a ass... :lookaroun Im not so good with this message bored stuff :(

[Pol]

Hmmm, backing up a couple of steps...

Why do you capitalize Christian but not Pagan? Isn't that disrespectful?

And do YOU believe that Pagans worship satan?

Talk about picking straws. Read my posts more often, and you'll find I randomly capitalise christian and paganism as I go. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, it just depends on where my fingers fall when I'm typing.

Why would I believe that I worship Satan? And why don't you capitalise Satan? Isn't that a bit disrespectful?

[Pol]

I really mean no disrespect, but I don't understand why a Christian would choose to be on a Pagan chat board??? :twitch:

Who are you talking about and how does it relate to my post?

[Pol]

Human or not, if you're going to complain about how someone treats you, don't brag about treating them the same way. Otherwise there's no reason to complain about how they treat you. Until you're doing something to better the problem, complaining and doing the same to them is not going to fix it.

As for fundie Christians thinking everyone is going to hell besides them: I used to be fairly fundamentalist (but not as fundie as some), and have family members who are, and good friends who are, and I can say that that's definitely not the truth. Sure, some may, but it doesn't mean that if you're a fundamentalist you believe everyone that is different is going to hell. One of my fundamentalist friends is the biggest audiophile I know, cusses like a sailor, and has never told me I'm going to hell, or anyone else as far as I know.

[zakzekezedd]

Ok..I actually do work in a bookstore, and corporate seems to think we need to court the fundamentalist Christian consumer. Some of the books we get in are rather irksomely humorous (ie the one recounting how the author had to go into a house and do an exorcism because of the Stephen King books that were stored in the attic), some of them I find frankly quite insulting in the way they portray Pagans (we're all a bunch of Satan worshipping miscreants who aren't smart enough to realize the "lie"), and a few of them I actually find quite frightening because of the extremes they encourage the readers to go to "drive" Pagans (and other undesirables) from their community. Now, I know that these books do not reflect the majority of Christian's beliefs and ideas about Pagans, but the fact that not only are there people out there writing and publishing books like this, but there are people who are actually buying and reading them, that I do find troubling, even frightening. That said, despite all the wicked remarks I would love to "zap" the overzealous fundies with, I know that there is no purpose in starting a confrontational "exchange"...just exiting stage right as graciously as possible is the best course of action.

[Mysticism Deity]

I once had a man stop me in a bookstore. I was thumbing through some cranky text by Aleister Crowley ...anyway, this man walks up and asks, "You a Crowley fan?"
"Sure," I said. I didn't offer any other reply, I don't like to be bothered when I'm reading.
The man placed his hand over the page I was perusing, "Are you aware that Crowley died a horrible death and lived his life as a heroin addict?"
"Yep," I replied, smiling. "At least he had fun, eh?"
The man didn't think I was funny. "The light of Christ can save you from such a fate, do you know of Christ?"
I grinned. "Yeah, I've heard of Christ. Isn't he that guy who died a horrible death and lived his life ranting ...usually after a few cups of wine? Alcoholic right?"
The man went away ...ah, that was nice indeeed.
Anyway, just my funny similar story.

Witnessing a ten foot jesus in tulsa ohklahoma, :fpraise:
--Kaos


:) very nice. :)

[Valkie]

I agree with Valkie's take...
and...

VALKIE"The thing that I find really disturbing is that one person's question of looking for similar experiences... who was just looking for validation of the way that she was feeling and help in understanding the whole thing... suddenly turned into an Us vs.Them for no reason what so ever and that this entire thread has lost it's original intent."

...Im sorry for aiding in the loss of this threads original intent by sharing a pointless story of my experience instead of helping to validate her reaction...
I feel like a ass... :lookaroun Im not so good with this message bored stuff :(

Don't feel bad about it... it's like that game 'telephone'... things evolve. That's the way that it goes... but this thread went way beyond evolving. It turned into a straight bash fest just for the sake of arguing a point over and over again... and that is not cool. I just can't understand why someone looking for an opinion... or someone else who has been there before has to turn into a giant debate on who is more wrong.

Personally, I don't care who is more wrong. Everyone has thier opinion and life experiences and to automatically say that the other person is wrong because they acted the way that they did is rediculous.

[WolfWonderess]

Agreed, Valkie.

[fay]

guys, before you start accusing each other of devil worshipping and bad grammer, if you are disrespectful to anyone the mods will close this thread. i personally am interested in hearing peoples stories.
blessed be

[fay]

But the one that sticks with me the most is the Born-Again who said to me "The difference between you and me is that you BELIEVE you're right, I KNOW I'm right."
i can kinda relate.
this summer i went on holiday with my family. when i got my AS results we went out for a nice meal to celebrate. now with my family, they know that im wiccan but we never talk about it, i think its a kinda 'dont rock the boat thing' and i see no need to shove it down their throats.
but anyways, we were talking and we ended up on the subject of what happens after death. it was really interesting and i was talking about reincarnation and linda (my mum's best friend who lives with us) said "yeah its a nice idea but it doesnt happen"
i was really shocked! i couldnt believe it! i just said "how do you know? no-one knows what happens after we die." and she was like "well i suppose so"
it really shocked me that someone i know was so close minded.
blessed be

[Lunacie]

guys, before you start accusing each other of devil worshipping and bad grammer, if you are disrespectful to anyone the mods will close this thread. i personally am interested in hearing peoples stories.
blessed be
Yes, I was enjoying the stories too.

[Druchii]

oy, ever had a thing like this happen to you? you have your 'complete idiots guide to wicca craft' out of your backpack cuz ur looking for something and then you have someone put down a piece of paper that says 'god is watching you' right on top of the book? :( i dont know what to think. i mean, i just decided to take this path since i feel i was born to take it. anyway, just wondering if you had something similar happen to you? :smash:

Yeah. :) The best thing to do is ignore it, smile and say thank you. People will be people. And then no one gets upset. Really, it's you being the better person, if you do it as such, in my opinion. :)

[Lunacie]

Yeah. :) The best thing to do is ignore it, smile and say thank you. People will be people. And then no one gets upset. Really, it's you being the better person, if you do it as such, in my opinion. :)

Or how about smiling and saying "No, thank you"?