New Pagan. Yes, Me.

[Illuminatus]

Hi All. Today I am a Pagan!

This was a very hard decision to come to, because my many experiences with Religion, while posative, disillusioned me a great deal. The contradictions inherent in Judiasm and Catholicism turned me off to ALL religions, and I grew to actually bear extreme disdain to anyone who called themselves a believer. Weak minded, gullible, a follower, I saw the negative aspects of all those who bore a fervent belief.

So I was an Atheist for a long time. At first I was a Weak Atheist, which means I only denied a certain subset of Gods - the ones of the Major Religions - Yaweh, Jesus, The Trinity, and the Saints (since they are worshipped as gods too.. sort of makes all Catholics pagans yes/no?)... and later stepped up to Strong Atheism, denying ALL the superstitions inherent in all the world's religions.

But, I cannot bear the negativity inherent in my belief system. The primary tennant of the Strong Atheist is "You're ALL full of crap!"... I cannot convey to you how DIFFICULT it is playing the devil's advocate - the one who mocks and ridicules others, just hoping, however faintly, that they'll just sit down and THINK for their own for half a minute and say "Oh man, that crap they're feeding me... How can that be True?". Well, it's difficult, always being the bad guy, the naysayer, the offending splash of cold water that doesn't serve to wake anyone up, ending up to be a futile gesture. I've really grown to hate it.

I'm a Scientist... I have the degree to prove it. I believe in the scientific method as a tool to unveil the Truth. I also am a pragmatist... I believe in what WORKS. I believe that weather.com is better for predicting the oncoming storm than a pile of leaves and twigs or whatever the hell it is you crazy people do. Science, not ancient rhetoric, is what drives the human race towards progress.

HOWEVER, I have lived enough years to know that there are truthes to be found that Science is not ideal for discovering.. not the Absolute truthes, more like the Relative ones.. the truthes you find at the bottom of a beer pitcher. The insights gleaned from staying up way too late and not being able to stop laughing. The witticisms dropped when everyone is smashed off their ass and suddenly stumble over a new and interesting way to view their surroundings.

So, now I know that Science doesn't have all the answers.. or at least the ones I'm looking for. It's not Philosophy.

I don't believe in your gods or goddesses, at least not in the literal sense. Figuratively, now that I can understand perfectly. I think this is where mainstream religions go wrong.. they demnand both Literal AND Figurative belief. You HAVE to Believe in Jesus to be saved... Believe with a capital B.

The IDEA of the goddess, of Isis and Osiris, Jesus and Yahweh, these are concepts I can deal with. Not real individuals, but rather a common legend, or.. well, I don't know... a shared idea, an identification with certain aspects of ones persona which are idealized in the Identity of the God/Goddess. There! That's it! That is the connection I have been struggling to make.

So. While I am too arrogant in my nature as a skeptic, I CAN STILL embrace religion. It's just a matter of reaching into myself and pull out the aspect that's been missing! I think I know what it is, and her name is Eris.

Yeah, that's right, Discordianism! It's the only one that fits into my lifestyle as a party animal in remission, and it works perfectly with my obsession with the Illuminati.

So, Hail Eris or something. Kallisti!

- Illuminatus

[Illuminatus]

Thanks to all of you for tolerating me these past weeks. Surprise, I was listening as well as talking. That's me. I'm just FULL of surprises.

[Tigerwallah]

Your story is very familiar. I followed the same path of discovery. If Isis and Sekhemet didn't appear to me in a very tangible way, I too, would still be a pagan who did not neccissarily believe in a god, goddess and/or both.

It never stops being a journey of discovery and new revelations. My only suggestion to you (because you seem to be up to a good start) is to be open to everything, but trust your instints as well.

Again, congratulations.

Em Hotep

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Tigerwallah
It never stops being a journey of discovery and new revelations. My only suggestion to you (because you seem to be up to a good start) is to be open to everything, but trust your instints as well.

You have no idea how contradictory those last two suggestions are to me. My instincts have CLOSED more ideas in my mind than they have opened. But, that's just me.

Again, congratulations.

Danke Schoen,

Hail Eris

Illuminatus

[Tigerwallah]

I am also a true skeptic. However, on occasion, something screams "you know this!!! This is true!!!" It points you in a direction, you go, and you find a hypothesis that holds up to scrutiny.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Tigerwallah
I am also a true skeptic. However, on occasion, something screams "you know this!!! This is true!!!" It points you in a direction, you go, and you find a hypothesis that holds up to scrutiny.

I know... it's called reverse-justification. You make a decision, and then use logic to justify it. The exact OPPOSITE of the scientific method, but the clever person can make it appear otherwise. I try to avoid this behavior like the plague.

[Emerald Sky]

Congrats Illuminatus! and good luck in your search for the truth!

[Tigerwallah]

Originally posted by Illuminatus


I know... it's called reverse-justification. You make a decision, and then use logic to justify it. The exact OPPOSITE of the scientific method, but the clever person can make it appear otherwise. I try to avoid this behavior like the plague.

Well, I'm not so sure that that is true. If we only actively use less than 20% of our brain, couldn't the rest of it be stored ancestor knowledge or even stored knowledge from past lives.

I was not raised by my mother, but the other night we discovered something that was a little more than coincidence. She told me a story about a preist who gave her the impetus to seek the truth outside of Catholism. He told her that she should never believe something just because it is popular opinion, or just because someone in authority tells you to. She embraced this and questioned everything. Including Catholicism, and eventually became a Pagan.

I did not meet my mother until I was 22. I had grown up being that kid who questions everything, and believes nothing until I find out the truth for myself. Of course, I do rely heavily on my own instincts. I was raised Catholic, as well. I never believed any of it. I questioned everything and made my teachers and priests in my parrish very angry. When I was 20, I became a Pagan. My mother and I had made the same journey. Only, it had taken me a lot less time to come to the same conclusion that she had. All of my life I heard a little voice in the back of my head that said, "Never accept it just because it is popular opinion or because it is what you are told."

[reanna]

Congrats!! But remember.....

we love ya no matter what. :D
You can be an alien from the planet weapop, a big huge hairy lovable monster, any spirituality you like, we still love you becuz you are you!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D
Happy you have found your path!! Many blessings to you on your journey! :)

[reanna]

OOPs! forgot to add.........


By the way.... Love your avatar!! ;)

[Dria El]

Congratulations!

:)

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by reanna
OOPs! forgot to add.........


By the way.... Love your avatar!! ;)

Thanks! I couldn't have done it without such enthusiastic fans like you!!!!

Heh the fact that you like me only tells me you probably don't read the Political Pagan board, but hey, it's coo!

Thanks for the well wishes!

- Illuminatus

PS - little secret for you.. my Avatar.. HE ISN'T WEARING ANY PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by Illuminatus

At first I was a Weak Atheist, which means I only denied a certain subset of Gods - the ones of the Major Religions - Yaweh, Jesus, The Trinity, and the Saints (since they are worshipped as gods too.. sort of makes all Catholics pagans yes/no?)...

Actually, the saints are not worshipped as gods...........

[Dria El]

Originally posted by Illuminatus


Thanks! I couldn't have done it without such enthusiastic fans like you!!!!

Heh the fact that you like me only tells me you probably don't read the Political Pagan board, but hey, it's coo!

Thanks for the well wishes!

- Illuminatus

PS - little secret for you.. my Avatar.. HE ISN'T WEARING ANY PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O

As it should be! I personally think no avatar should have to wear pants. But that's just me. :)

ps. I do read the Political Pagan board. ;)

[reanna]

Originally posted by Illuminatus

PS - little secret for you.. my Avatar.. HE ISN'T WEARING ANY PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Tigerwallah]

Originally posted by EasternPriest


Actually, the saints are not worshipped as gods...........

EP -- I used to be Catholic. Now that I am a Pagan, I can deffinately see the connections between the saints and the lesser pagan gods.

For the most part there is a trinity - usually Mother, Father and Child. It is very closely related to the Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Then, in Paganism, there are lesser gods. These are gods and goddesses you worship to acheive specific goals. I remember praying to St. Anthony to help me find lost keys, to St. Francis for the animals, etc. Really, the only difference is the label of Saint vs. god/goddess.

[Illuminatus]

Catholics do worship the saints as Gods. I remember my mom telling me that they used to pray to a certain saint for good weather... and if good weather didn't come, they would take the statue of the saint and put it out into the rain :) nothing less than blatant idolatry. Heh heh irish people are funny like that, lots of neat old traditions that never got completely overwritten when christianity came along.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Tigerwallah

For the most part there is a trinity - usually Mother, Father and Child. It is very closely related to the Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


In my practices the trinity is God, Goddess, and All

Brightest blessings in following your path Illy

[Tigerwallah]

What a great concept. Awesome!!!

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Willow Raven


In my practices the trinity is God, Goddess, and All

Brightest blessings in following your path Illy

That is confusing, can you draw a Venn diagram of your belief system??

Seriously though, I have never been able to master the mysteries of the Trinity. I think they just threw in the holy spirit because you really need 3 of something to make a pattern, and 3 is just a neat number.

[Myst]

My only comment on that is that some of my friends suggest that the trinity was absorbed into the newer belief system like Christmas and Easter. I don't wish to argue it, though, that's just a thought I've heard :)

Thanks Tiger. My belief system doesn't rely on deities at all, but energy - the All - which gives everything life. To me, God and Goddess are two facets of that energy that are polar and balance eachother, like positive and negative, and which come together to make All. Well I won't go into the whole schpiel here but I think it's an interesting concept...

:flamer: