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mol
August 24th, 2001, 11:50 AM
5

{Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Epsilon}

THE BATTLE OF THE ANTS

That is not which is.
The only Word is Silence.
The only Meaning of that Word is not.
Thoughts are false.
Fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.
Peace implies war.
Power implies war.
Harmony implies war.
Victory implies war.
Glory implies war.
Foundation implies war.
Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.

Revelation
August 24th, 2001, 01:09 PM
Ahh, finally imagery I can work with :p

>>That is not which is.
The only Word is Silence.
The only Meaning of that Word is not.
<<

Again, I think this refers to the three veils of negative existence beyond the Tree of Life. The Word of God is the initial cause of the universe, that which created all of creation. The Word has no sound--it only exists.

>>Fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.
<<

I would go so far as to say it is unity disguised as plurality, but even using duality as a model I see where he's getting at. In the most mundane sense, fatherhood implies motherhood--there can be no father without a mother somewhere. Yet their existence defines each other, and therefore, they must be flip sides of the sdame thing--they must be One, rather than two. If they were truly separate, they would not need the other to exist as themselves. Yet they do need each other, and therefore they are One.

On a KAbbalistic level, Fatherhood, Godhood is unity disguised as many. In Hermetic Kabbalah each of the sephiroth can take on a personified deity in various forms...yet none of these personifications is real in its own right. They are only real as ways to break apart and divide the overarching Divine principle. On the higher levels, Godhood is disguised as CHokmah and Binah, the etneral masculine and feminine. Yet this, too, is deception, for God is never reduced to two complementary ideas--God is always One, though his masquerades are many.

>>Peace implies war.
Power implies war.
Harmony implies war.
Victory implies war.
Glory implies war.
Foundation implies war.
Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.<<

Again, more Kabbalistic imagery. Each of these ideas are associated with the various sephiroth, from CHesed to Malkuth, respectively (chesed being peace, geburah being power, Malkuth the Kingdom, etc. )

I am a bit perplexed at his use of the word "war", however. My guess is that the mere existence of any sephira implies the existence of them all, for they are fully dependent upon the existence o each other. And if they all must exist, then the Kingdom, Malkuth, must exist, and in Malkuth there must always be struggle, for we must struggle to ascend toward the light, twoard the WOrd, for in the Kindgom of Earth we are so far removed from these things.

Because we are so far removed from the Oneness of the One, all the sephiroth appear at war, simply because we cannot grasp them in their totality. All we can do is meditate upon each value separately, though even this is a task too great for most of us. And so we continue our dairly struggle, like ants.

Semele
August 24th, 2001, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Revelation
[B]>>Fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.
<<

I would go so far as to say it is unity disguised as plurality, but even using duality as a model I see where he's getting at. In the most mundane sense, fatherhood implies motherhood--there can be no father without a mother somewhere. Yet their existence defines each other, and therefore, they must be flip sides of the sdame thing--they must be One, rather than two. If they were truly separate, they would not need the other to exist as themselves. Yet they do need each other, and therefore they are One.

I see it this way as well, just couldn't put it into words. Thanks!


>>
Peace implies war.
Power implies war.
Harmony implies war.
Victory implies war.
Glory implies war.
Foundation implies war.
Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.

To me, this part is very simple and clear...If it isn't worth fighting for, it isn't worth having.

mol
August 24th, 2001, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by mol

Peace implies war.
Power implies war.
Harmony implies war.
Victory implies war.
Glory implies war.
Foundation implies war.
Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.

I see it as...

Crowley only says that these words 'imply' war. But the Kingdom in which they reside IS at war. So, maybe if the Kingdom wasnt always at war...you wouldnt have to fight for all of these.

slvr_phoenix
August 24th, 2001, 04:49 PM
THE BATTLE OF THE ANTS
It's funny, but the first thing that struck me as I read this was the word "antecedents". Which then, as I read further, seemed to be quite appropriate for the latter half (or so) of this chapter, which I'll explain later. But first, the top part:

That is not which is.
The only Word is Silence.
The only Meaning of that Word is not.
Thoughts are false.Well, as from my interpretation before involving Nothing as a GOD, this all seems pretty related to that part of my interpretation.

That is not which is. = Nothing exists.
The only Word is Silence. = Nothing's only desire is the peace of nonexistence.
The only Meaning of that Word is not. = Same sentiment as above
Thoughts are false. = As above, so below. AKA Ditto. :) And so ends the last line providing the strength and power of three to the single idea.

Now, as for the other part of this chapter, which I think has to to with antecedents. Here's the best two definitions/examples I could find from Dictionary.com to explain:

1) One's ancestors.
2)The first of the two propositions which constitute an enthymeme or contracted syllogism; as, Every man is mortal; therefore the king must die.
The next line uses the first definition, talking about Nothing, which was the antecedent, or ancestor, of Chaos and Order. And the rest of this chapter afterword uses the kind of logic in the second definition, where if one thing must be true (or must exist), so must the other. Further interpretation below:

Fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.Despite what everyone else is saying about fatherhood requiring a mother, I see it differently, for I've seen single parents in action. Fatherhood, in my opinion, is a duality in that it requires something to be the father of, AKA a child. Through my interpretation Nothing is, in effect, the 'father' of Chaos and of Order. Now, Chaos and Order oppose their 'father' Nothing. This gives the appearance of a DUALITY between existence and non-existence. And it is this opposition which DISGUISES the fact that our universe is actually a unity of all of their energies, that the three of them together make the Triad which gives us life. To me, it's a LOT said in a single sentence. :) Of course, without the point of view of my my previous interpretation, I doubt this sentence would have the same meaning to anyone else. :)


Peace implies war.
Power implies war.
Harmony implies war.
Victory implies war.
Glory implies war.
Foundation implies war.These are all things that Nothing desires. However, because of the Triad now, for Nothing to have them, it implies he would have to have 'war' with Chaos and Order. It makes it sound as though our universe is a giant battle ground between these GODs. Yet do we see fireballs filling the sky and explosions of power all around us?

Almost sadly, no. War is only implied, not actuality. The conflict and struggle between the Triad is there, but it isn't a violent one. It's not a graphical, bloody, nightmarish scene leaving our universe a charnel house. It's just a seemingly peaceful conflict of energies that gives us life. While very useful for our existence and happiness, it also leaves one with a sense of boredom.


Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.Call it that morbid side of humanity, but could you just imagine the raw thrilling excitement of being in a universe where the Triad really was at war? I can't really blame Crowley for expressing a desire to see it, maybe even to live it or be a part of it. I wouldn't mind seeing it myself if I could return back to my peaceful world at any time I desired.

Since it doesn't work that way though, I think things are just fine the way they are. :)

And thus ends my initial interpretation of "THE BATTLE OF THE ANTS" (Isn't that a movie from the 70s? He he he.) and my English lesson. :)

- Afterthought added:
The Battle of the Ants (antecedents) also well describes what this chapter is talking about, which is the struggle between the Triad, in effect, our first ancestors, those who gave us existence.

Qabalarina
August 25th, 2001, 04:16 PM
Despite what everyone else is saying about fatherhood requiring a mother, I see it differently, for I've seen single parents in action. Fatherhood, in my opinion, is a duality in that it requires something to be the father of, AKA a child. Through my interpretation Nothing is, in effect, the 'father' of Chaos and of Order. Now, Chaos and Order oppose their 'father' Nothing. This gives the appearance of a DUALITY between existence and non-existence. And it is this opposition which DISGUISES the fact that our universe is actually a unity of all of their energies, that the three of them together make the Triad which gives us life. To me, it's a LOT said in a single sentence. Of course, without the point of view of my my previous interpretation, I doubt this sentence would have the same meaning to anyone else.


I think this is a really good point (but not because of the single parent issue. Sure, people die or the run off, but two people are required to create life. I think that is the funamental point, not who sticks around to rear the child).

The father/mother/child concept is very important in Qabalistic writing, with which Crowley was certainly familiar. In fact, the holiest name of God, YHWH (which is used in both Traditional and Hermetic Qabalistic traditions) is in itself indicative of the importance of the father/mother/brother/sister relationship. There are many false dualities one can see if we look too closely or with too Western an eye--for, after all, we Westerners love duality. WE love to separate and juxtapose ideas, but we are more loathe to find commonalities, or to undestand how things are linked naturally together.


Crowley only says that these words 'imply' war. But the Kingdom in which they reside IS at war. So, maybe if the Kingdom wasnt always at war...you wouldnt have to fight for all of these.

But of course, the Kingdom will always be at war. That is the nature of the Kingdom, at the feet of God. We cannot elevate the status f Kingdom--for even if we could something would fill its space. However, we can propel ourselves toward the Heavens individually, and then "fighting" for these things is less of a physical and mundane struggle, but rather becomes a spiritual quest to ascend ever closer to the true face of the Divine.

slvr_phoenix
August 27th, 2001, 02:01 PM
The beginning of this chapter reminds me of Simon and Garfunkel's song, The Sound of Silence. I just thought I'd share that. :)

quixote
August 28th, 2001, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by slvr_phoenix

It's funny, but the first thing that struck me as I read this was the word "antecedents". Which then, as I read further, seemed to be quite appropriate for the latter half (or so) of this chapter, which I'll explain later. But first, the top part:
Well, as from my interpretation before involving Nothing as a GOD, this all seems pretty related to that part of my interpretation.

That is not which is. = Nothing exists.
The only Word is Silence. = Nothing's only desire is the peace of nonexistence.
The only Meaning of that Word is not. = Same sentiment as above
Thoughts are false. = As above, so below. AKA Ditto. :) And so ends the last line providing the strength and power of three to the single idea.

Now, as for the other part of this chapter, which I think has to to with antecedents. Here's the best two definitions/examples I could find from Dictionary.com to explain:

The next line uses the first definition, talking about Nothing, which was the antecedent, or ancestor, of Chaos and Order. And the rest of this chapter afterword uses the kind of logic in the second definition, where if one thing must be true (or must exist), so must the other. Further interpretation below:
Despite what everyone else is saying about fatherhood requiring a mother, I see it differently, for I've seen single parents in action. Fatherhood, in my opinion, is a duality in that it requires something to be the father of, AKA a child. Through my interpretation Nothing is, in effect, the 'father' of Chaos and of Order. Now, Chaos and Order oppose their 'father' Nothing. This gives the appearance of a DUALITY between existence and non-existence. And it is this opposition which DISGUISES the fact that our universe is actually a unity of all of their energies, that the three of them together make the Triad which gives us life. To me, it's a LOT said in a single sentence. :) Of course, without the point of view of my my previous interpretation, I doubt this sentence would have the same meaning to anyone else. :)

These are all things that Nothing desires. However, because of the Triad now, for Nothing to have them, it implies he would have to have 'war' with Chaos and Order. It makes it sound as though our universe is a giant battle ground between these GODs. Yet do we see fireballs filling the sky and explosions of power all around us?

Almost sadly, no. War is only implied, not actuality. The conflict and struggle between the Triad is there, but it isn't a violent one. It's not a graphical, bloody, nightmarish scene leaving our universe a charnel house. It's just a seemingly peaceful conflict of energies that gives us life. While very useful for our existence and happiness, it also leaves one with a sense of boredom.

Call it that morbid side of humanity, but could you just imagine the raw thrilling excitement of being in a universe where the Triad really was at war? I can't really blame Crowley for expressing a desire to see it, maybe even to live it or be a part of it. I wouldn't mind seeing it myself if I could return back to my peaceful world at any time I desired.

Since it doesn't work that way though, I think things are just fine the way they are. :)

And thus ends my initial interpretation of "THE BATTLE OF THE ANTS" (Isn't that a movie from the 70s? He he he.) and my English lesson. :)

- Afterthought added:
The Battle of the Ants (antecedents) also well describes what this chapter is talking about, which is the struggle between the Triad, in effect, our first ancestors, those who gave us existence.
On the war thing, what struck me was maybe the war was being fought through us, kind of like war by proxy.it could explain humanity's history...
just my two cents worth.
BB, quixote