Cancelling Porn Admonitions

[Dr. Doom]

I have spent some time reading posts on Porn and love before starting this thread.

My wife goes to several Chrisian Church Services a week, incuding some Conservative Chrstian Preachers. Since I have gotten older, Porn serves as a Viagra for me, without side effects. After W has finished watching what she wants on TV for the evening, and is ready to retire, I occasionally put on a Porn DVD, and we have some marital fun.

Sometimes however, I will get a RANT response from W about how Porn is bad for me, or immoral, or I'm going to go to HELL. So I feel I need a Prayer when I decide to start the porn Images. I feel I also need a sermon to counter the sermons that W has been listening to over the weeks and years. Conservative Christian Preachers apparently get increased collections when they slam porn.

So my starting out prayer coud be something like, "The images on the TV will create no Angst or upset for W."

Supposing that W flares up with, "We are going to both go to Hell if you don't shut off the Porn."

Of course, up till now, I have just shut if off, and not made a big deal about it. I am considering getting a little more assertive. At least I should have a cancelling phrase, for when I shut off the TV.

Cancelling Phrases:

"The amount of money you contribute to those Churches, it seems you should be getting better advice."

"Think of all the preachers you have heard speaking against Porn, and ask each one of them for a letter to conduct spot searches of their homes and offices for Porn."

"I enjoy looking at women without clothes. If you don't want me to enjoy myself at home, I'd like to hear some suggestions of where you would prefer I enjoy myself."

Retorts, keeping Porn Rolling:

"Did you have some ideas of how you wanted to give more help, or would you rather just relax, and let the video do the work?"

"I want you to imagine that all the ANTI-PORN Christians have Been CALLED and ascended into HEAVAN, and left the rest of us to enjoy ourselves here on Earth."

Now in the air the spring is coming
Sweet blowing wind
Singing down the hills and valleys
Keep your eyes on mine
Now we're on the edge of bliss
Feel all joys come to you
Feel all cares slip away
Enjoy, Enjoy, Expand
--------------------------------------- ( Partly copied from Verthandi's Signature)



I don't have this well tought out yet, and I have been struggling with this for a while, and I have posted the problem on http://www.sexualforums.com, and http://www.marriagebuilders.com, but have not gotten my problems resolved. So perhaps Magic is the answer.

Any phrases for any stage of Prayer might be helpful.

Thanks

[The High Queen of Faerie]

you might want to just talk with her about it. you can't force her to do anything. your prayer of 'make her feel better about porn' seems a little selfish imo and perhaps a little will-molding as well. if you like watching porn, great! i don't find anything wrong with that. however... the person you really need to settle things with is your wife. don't attack her. it doesn't matter what i think, it matters what she thinks.

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Viviene,

Thank you for your perceptions. How can I distinguish between what is my wife's true desire, and what is the admonition of others, not really my wife?

Attacking my wife is something I should avoid. Influencing my wife in a trivial matter, with magic, for my personal enjoyment would be more wrong, if my wife were opposed to porn, consistently, on some moral principle.

I have talked to my wife about the issue, with a full discussion over the past few months. My wife has agreed to not object to the images. In practice, my wife sometimes raises objections when I actaully put the images on. So perhaps I need reminder phrases. I also need to be sensitive to new or temporary alterations that change the deal.

Thanks for your ideas

[samiaminsane]

Perhaps your wife has a problem with you watching porn, and that's it? Maybe it has nothing to do with her church and moral beliefs whatsoever, and that is used as a cover up for how she really feels. (i.e. "I don't turn my husband on anymore, he has to watch porn to get aroused"). Please don't be offended if that has nothing to do with it, it was just the first thought that popped into my head. Us women are weird........

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Aradwynn,

Thank you for sharing your insight. My wife and I are both a little streaky, or inconsistent. I have, from time to time, received ideas from my wife along the line of a jealousy type of logic. My wife is a Scorpio with a Moon in Aires. My wife's feelings of jealousy seem mostly not to be traditional, or commonplace jealousy. I will watch for more indications of insecurity. If insecurity is a problem, then a solution would be reassurance. Perhaps starting out with some re-assurance might not be a bad idea, as an insurance policy?

Thanks again

[Muireannach]

Hello Dr. Doom,

I am not condemning pornography in any way, or criticizing, but I just thought I may give you some insight from a female perpspective.

I think that perhaps you should find an alternative to porn that includes your wife. Try role-playing, toys, or even naughty games. I think the problem here is that she feels you cannot get an erection without pornography, and therefore, she is not as exciting. I think on a religious level she feels guilty over the pornography and perhaps she feels it is morally wrong. Everyone needs a little change now and then, and perhaps you should try new positions or (as mentioned above) tactics that will add a new level of excitement and decrease the need for pornography.

I think trying new things would be a good compromise. Perhaps put aside a day everyone once in awhile for a bit of romance or kinkyness. Make it a surprise now and then.

The church is a biased source of council, the real questions you should ask is:

Does the pornography violate any unspoken rules of our relationship? is it hurting anyone? if someone is hurt, is their reasoning valid?

I think you will have to have a constructive conversation and get to the root of the problem, it's not just about pornography or religious reasoning, I believe this one goes much deeper.

[Ishna]

I assume you're not trying to get her to accept porn that is degrading and vulgur. Also, how many decent looking, "respectable" males are in your porn, for her to perhaps connect to?

I am anti-most-porn myself. I am being very careful to bite my tongue.

I second what the other people have suggested. I'm pretty sure that if my boyfriend had to watch pr0n to be with me, I'd feel pretty horrible about myself. Put the boot on the other shoe--you wife has to watch images of other naked men before she will approach you. How would you feel?

Ishna.

[Wyrdsister]

Perhaps your wife is turned OFF by the fact you have to look at other naked women in order to get aroused enough to find her attractive. I know I would feel crappy if my partner could not get sexually interested in me without bringing other naked bodies into the mix. She may also find porn itself a turn off. I know it usually turns my stomach rather than turns my crank.

Instead of trying to find a magickal way to get your wife to accept your porn habit, why not try a spell to spark the passion between you? To bring you closer together?

And as for porn being Viagra without the side affects, I'd have to disagree with you there. I think porn does have side affects, but this isn't the place to go into that. I could write a thesis on the subject, and I'd hate to bore everyone here! :D

Wyrdsister

[The High Queen of Faerie]

Perhaps your wife has a problem with you watching porn, and that's it? Maybe it has nothing to do with her church and moral beliefs whatsoever, and that is used as a cover up for how she really feels. (i.e. "I don't turn my husband on anymore, he has to watch porn to get aroused"). Please don't be offended if that has nothing to do with it, it was just the first thought that popped into my head. Us women are weird........
i completely agree with that. i for one know that i'd be upset beyond belief if i found my significant other watching pornography, and i'm pagan. ;)

[The High Queen of Faerie]

Does the pornography violate any unspoken rules of our relationship? is it hurting anyone? if someone is hurt, is their reasoning valid?
imo it's in the eyes of the beholder as to whether or not the reasoning is 'valid'. when i found out my so did watch pornography (albeit before he met me) you would not believe how depressed i got. to him i wasn't at all reasonable, but my pain (to me) was justified. would your wife get upset if she could not justify the reason for getting upset in her mind?

[mucgwyrt]

I agree with the above comments; I think you're being rather insensitive, and to be honest if you were my husband I would tell you to go and get it elsewhere, and to not bother coming back. She deserves a hell of a lot better than to be treated like a piece of post pornographic meat.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

I agree with the above comments; I think you're being rather insensitive, and to be honest if you were my husband I would tell you to go and get it elsewhere, and to not bother coming back. She deserves a hell of a lot better than to be treated like a piece of post pornographic meat.
:hahugh: you said it, not me. ;)

_handclapp

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Viviene,

You bring up an important point, that the logic of my wife's objections to pornography may not be fully expressible in ordinary spoken logic. Therefore, I should not only rely upon her spoken words, but also the tone or feelings behind her words, gesture, facial expressions, etc. I have not gotten a feeling that W has a problem with porn itself. I am aware of the demeaning aspect that porn can have toward the meaning of womanhood, for some women. W does not seem to be hurt by, or aware of, the potentially demeaning aspect of porn.

Thank you for sharing your feelings of hurt about porn. Porn is something that can produce strong feelings of hurt. Hopefully, my discussion here, of my struggles, is not unconstructively upsetting to viewers.

Thanks again

[Gwenhwyfar]

If my so ever looked at porn and then looked at me.....well you dont want to know what would go down at my house...I dont care if he looks at porn once in a while as long as its not super nasty porn, hell Im sure he has some on the computer right now, but the day he needs it to sleep with me, or the day I dont get any because hes to busy watching porn... our relationship would probably be over....
you got some good advice here in this thread, anything els I add you wouldnt want to hear.

[dr_zeus440]

sit down and chat it over till youve got a solution that youre both comfortable with. works 11 times out of 10. all this talk of cancelling phrases and retorts makes it sound like you feel a desperate need to be at odds with your wife, which is just wack. so next time it happens, switch off the t.v., take a little break in your evenings pleasures, and ask her to share her feelings and thoughts on the topic and why she objects to your viewing pleasure, then explain your side and try and get both parties to have a nice marital compromise.

to everyone else; all of these "how would you feel" and "perhaps your wife" hypotheticals are...useless. i think we can assume that dr doom knows his wife better than we do (funny that, after all they did get married). also, what happened to putting yourself out for your significant other? do relationships really mean so little that we cant compromise on our own values for our spouses? as long as its reciprocal, id say that that makes for a happy marriage. porn is good.

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Muireannach,

Thank you for your alternative suggestions. I have been starting to ask my wife for more particpation in foreplay activities, and she has been responding, to some extent. Your suggestion of toys is something that I have not tried very much, and I will look into that idea.

A spell for Virility is another Idea, that should probably be incorporated into the begining prayers.

Last night my wife was interested in relations, and I had put on a massage tape after she finished her TV. My wife seldom objects to the massage tape from Esalen. org, which does not show privates, but has large areas of skin being massaged, close to nudity. My wife seemed to invite me to get my more explicit DVD, and we had some conversation around the morality of massage parlors, but I did not attempt to get into a deeper discussion. I did tell my wife that I enjoyed viewing nude women, and she seemed to understand my desire. W participated more in foreplay with her hands, and we had a good time and finished, without the porn.

Thanks for your ideas.

Blessings.

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Ishna,

I see that my Karma rating has gone down form 8 to 7, so I am not making many points with this thread. I do appreciate your expressing your perspective. I appreaciate all who offer a differing perspective, as other pespectives help me look for more clues to increase my sensitivity.

You ask if men are in the videos, and the answer is yes, there are men in the video. I have read that some wives object to porn, as they get older, as most porn videos star younger women. The DVD that I bought, has older women, as stars.

One part of jealousy that you touch on, is that I make an effort to turn off the video, as soon as we are finished with our session. Sometimes my wife will ask me not to turn off the video, because she wants to continue watching, afterwards. There are men in the videos, so I feel a little jealous that my wife wants to continue watching, after my performance; Like my performance was not sufficient.

I try to answer each post to any thread I start. I try to answer any question that relates to the topic, in any way. But I am not sure that answering anti-porn posts might further increase acrimony, which it was not my intent to create animosity.

On another thread for couples, there was a reference to a book, WICCA FOR COUPLES by A J Drew. That book may have some spells to imporve relationships.

Blessings

[Nantonos]

One part of jealousy that you touch on, is that I make an effort to turn off the video, as soon as we are finished with our session. Sometimes my wife will ask me not to turn off the video, because she wants to continue watching, afterwards. There are men in the videos, so I feel a little jealous that my wife wants to continue watching, after my performance; Like my performance was not sufficient.

Having read through the thread, two things occur to me that have not already been covered.

Firstly, if you want to turn off the video when you are done, but she does not, that might mean that she is not, herself, 'done'. You might help that by ensuring that she is more aroused at the start, and/or (wonders how to put this politely) if you don't need to see the video any more, but she is enjoying it, put yourself in a position where your mouth enhances her pleasure and your eyes can't see the screen.

Secondly, if she objects to turning if off, that does imply that she likes it (at least sometimes). Or perhaps she has different opinions when aroused and when not. Or perhas she objects to it if she sees it as a barrier between you, but doesn't after lovemaking when she feels closer to you.

And remember to cuddle before falling asleep.

[mucgwyrt]

Having read through the thread, two things occur to me that have not already been covered.

Firstly, if you want to turn off the video when you are done, but she does not, that might mean that she is not, herself, 'done'. You might help that by ensuring that she is more aroused at the start, and/or (wonders how to put this politely) if you don't need to see the video any more, but she is enjoying it, put yourself in a position where your mouth enhances her pleasure and your eyes can't see the screen.

Secondly, if she objects to turning if off, that does imply that she likes it (at least sometimes). Or perhaps she has different opinions when aroused and when not. Or perhas she objects to it if she sees it as a barrier between you, but doesn't after lovemaking when she feels closer to you.

And remember to cuddle before falling asleep.
:uhhuhuh: Share the love, be respectful, be sensitive.

[Ishna]

Dr Doom,

I apologise for my rather immature takething awayeth of your karma.

I don't think it would be wise for me to continue participating in this discussion, as I do get quite aggressive when it comes to pr0n.

*bows out*

Ishna.

[SilentDreams]

Okay let me see if I can put myself in your wife's perspective. My husband is looking at porn before we make love. He doesn't get aroused unless he looks at porn. I guess he just isn't turned on by me if he has to watch other people having sex. Also I'm a strong believer in my faith and my faith is against porn.

I think your wife is really feeling hurt and useless. I would say something more. But those reasons alone should clearly explain why your wife is not happy about the porn. Like some others said why not drop the porn and spice things up. Maybe try some toys and/or games. Go to a local Sex Shop, they are usually semi-big and have a wide variety of things so finding something that suits you both shouldn't be too hard.

I hope it works out for you

P.S. If I was your wife and you said some of those smart remarks to me you'd be sleeping on the couch and you could just forget about sex altogether...

[KaliGiri5]

hum...
well i'm not in the church..
but I'm against porn too...and no it has nothing to do with how I see myself.
to me sex itself is sacred and in porn nothing is sacred.
that is a sign of weakness on your part not hers.
you are of the flesh not spirit.
let her go and find a man who is of like mind and
you should find a porno lover such as yourself and you won't have that problem.

[Tullip Troll]

The best Porn is the porn your in...Let your wife be your pron star.

I myself would compare myself to the girls your watching and then I would feel less desirable. This would spin and spin until depression set in and then the voices in my head would always make me feel ugly and ashamed of myself. This would deffinatley effect my sex life and then of course my hubby's sex life.

Now if I feel good and attractive I will be Porn Girl the unsung Hero of my hubby's life...actually he would sing it.

MheraPai

[mucgwyrt]

The best Porn is the porn your in...Let your wife be your pron star.
ohohoh that would be SO much fun!!!
I mean, erm... :bigredblu :gagged:

[Dr. Doom]

Dear Macha,

I wish to first express my respect for your right to hold your beliefs about porn. It is a controversial subject, and there is probably a bell curve of individual opinions. There is probably a continuum of opinions from those who are strongly against porn, to those who are partly for and partly against, to those who are strongly for porn. The sales of Penthose and Playboy magazines and other pronography is a substantial sales amont and indicates that those who enjoy porn are at least a substantial minority, if not a majority. Wherever you are on the bell curve, or wherever I am, each of us is entitled to our individual opinion on porn.

It could be viewed that I am in a small extreme minority. However, a substantial amount of viewing of Porn is done in private. So it would be difficult to assess the percentages of the population that views porn on a yearly, monthly, daily or weekly basis, even if people would give honest answers.

But is there a utility of porn? Your view of porn causing you to feel like "Post Pornographic Meat" is certanily a negative against porn. There have been studies which show that the visualization of sexual images produces certain chemicals in the brain. I suspect that a climax also produces chemicals in the brain. Therefore, the utility of porn is to increase sexual satisfaction, through additonal chemicals released into the body. My personal experience is that pron enhances my sexual fulfilment. I am interested in sexual fulfillment, both for my own pleasure, but also for protecting me against temptation to attempt to seduce other women, as I am trying to maintain a monogamous relationship. So I post this idea, for those who are desiring to maintain a monogamous relationship, as a tool toward avoiding temptation.

I would suggest that my wife is the main dish, or at least the desert. I would suggest that Porn is the salad. Certainly I can eat salad at lunch, if my wife decided not to buy lettuce, or not to serve salad at dinner. But I would prefer to consider my home, with my wife, to be a place to receive a balanced meal, and I would encourage her to serve salad at dinner, out of love for my wife, not out of disrespect, or pure selfishness.

Certainly it might be easier to just sneak around secretly. But I would prefer to work on improving my relationship with my wife. That is why I seek advice on prayers for making things go more smoothly, more often.

I further think that the time of rejection by my wife, is a point at which I could probably do better at listening to her ideas and reasons. My wife does not reject porn that often, and perhaps I should take that moment as an opportunity to listen to all her ideas. Sometimes I have just shut off the TV and gone to sleep.

Blessings

[mucgwyrt]

I have no problem with porn whatsoever. What got me was the lack of respect with which (I feel) you are treating your wife.

My advice? Be more considerate. If she's not happy with porn one day, shut it off - she's obviously having a bad day. Dont try and get your own way with snotty come backs simply because you feel your physical urges are more important than her feelings. Sex doesn't (well, shouldn't) end just because you do - she's not there simply to satisfy your whims you know. Sex should be mutual and equally pleasurable for both of you, so when she is interested, pay her more attention.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

Dear Ishna,

I see that my Karma rating has gone down form 8 to 7, so I am not making many points with this thread. I do appreciate your expressing your perspective. I appreaciate all who offer a differing perspective, as other pespectives help me look for more clues to increase my sensitivity.

You ask if men are in the videos, and the answer is yes, there are men in the video. I have read that some wives object to porn, as they get older, as most porn videos star younger women. The DVD that I bought, has older women, as stars.

One part of jealousy that you touch on, is that I make an effort to turn off the video, as soon as we are finished with our session. Sometimes my wife will ask me not to turn off the video, because she wants to continue watching, afterwards. There are men in the videos, so I feel a little jealous that my wife wants to continue watching, after my performance; Like my performance was not sufficient.

I try to answer each post to any thread I start. I try to answer any question that relates to the topic, in any way. But I am not sure that answering anti-porn posts might further increase acrimony, which it was not my intent to create animosity.

On another thread for couples, there was a reference to a book, WICCA FOR COUPLES by A J Drew. That book may have some spells to imporve relationships.

Blessings
the jealousy thing...

perhaps how that's how -you make your wife feel-. it goes both ways, my friend.