Novices are stupid...

[Kaylara]

I know that that sounded really bad. I wanted to show you guys a few examples of the things that irritate me. I think that novices should be treated with as much respect as any Elder. I also think that they are just as magickal potent as anyone else. Everyone is a novice at sometime in their life.

What I am about to show you are not examples of my views! Please do not flame me for them! I just wanted to show some of the ways in which people even in paganism, treat each other. I have said it before and I will say it again... We are all equal here!

"If at this time you really feel that there's nothing to
be done with this person but to perform a binding
spell, you could sort of take comfort in the fact that
since your a novice, you'll probably not be all that
effective anyway. It'll be great practice, and it
might give you the psychological boost that you seem to
need the most."

"Finally put your actions where you mouth is and just get out of Paganism and stop throwing your negitivity around here. PERIOD.

TO ALL THOSE READING THIS: lets let this guy burn out this fire of his. This site wouldn't be here if we were'nt prowd pagans. His negitivity and spite should end here. DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POSTING."

"I found this site Why Wiccan suck I think it is a good site for any serious Wiccans as opposed to fluffys who just bought there Silver Ravenwolf "teen witch kit". It is generally informative and sometimes houmorous. "

"I can;t believe this guy had the nerve to call me ignorant.
We put up with yuo because we can ignore you and we dont have a moderator to delete your posts. Otherwise we'd be happpy to delete your idiodic banter. Try having some respect for people, what are you 8 years old? Grow up."

"I am a Wiccan, been so for almost 20 years. If you want to ask something please go ahead. But be warned that if what you post is just to mess with us here I will delete it. I already had to delete all the posts of 3 users who posted their garbage here and am going to set it up so that they never post here again.
Sorry for their crud, folks. I wanted this board to be better than that."

What are your thoughts on this kind of attitude?

Kaylara

[Yvonne Belisle]

It makes an excellent show of why this board and community feel good. So far I haven't seen anyone with that kind of attitude here. It is also a good warning for what's ot there. I post so much because I feel safe here. I figure that if someone dosn't like what I say that they will say so. As a natural I know that even though I've been doing what I do for many years there are still people out there that see me as less. It's a sorry thing but it also makes me more aware that even a novice can have a great deal of power. We are all equal in that we are seekers. Some of us are further along our paths than others. It's good to bring this stuff up because it helps keep things in perspective. Thank-you Kaylara. By the way the thread title is a definite attention grabber.:D

[Kaylara]

I know.... I actually am glad that you read the post before yelling at me. (j/k) ;)

One of the things I posted actually shows how a few members of a community feel towards new people. Yet they claim to want to help the pagan community. How can one help the pagan community when you discount half of the people in it?

Kaylara

[bluecat]

Heh ... Yes, Yvonne was correct, the title is quite an eye grabber. I opened it to see who would be writing such a stupid post. After reading it I realized why you used the title, so people WOULD open it and read it.

I have been on my path for most of my life and was taught and nurtured for a little by an Aunt. My mother did everything she could to make me different, but I was already different.

While I do not agree with much of the commercialism I see with things like Mama Silver's "Teen Witch Kit" and some of her other books that is no reason to dismiss them out of hand. Everyone starts on their path from a beginning and if that is the beginning, then So Be It; and if they continue on that particular branch of the path we call Paganism, that is just fine. We have enough problems with certain Christian groups throwing stones at us without throwing stones at each other. I realize there are many "Elitist" Pagans out there as well as those who think there is only one way to take this journey. I believe there are many roads into the forest and some of them have more postings and rules than others.

I am not Wiccan and am one of the sort that does not have any Gods, but rather believe the Universe is a living being of which we are a part, but that does not make those who follw Gods and Goddess wrong, it is simply their own path. I will confess that I have some trouble with wanna-bees and many of the Fluffy Bunny types as they are known, but their contribution to diversity is important and should not be dismissed or cast off.

Well, before I start to rant I had better close. I just think that intolerance is not a desirable trait for us and neither is an "Elitist" attitude, the world has enough "Bertha and Billy Better-than-you's," without us adding to the pile.

BlueCat

[Semele]

HEEHEE!!! Just kidding. i actually thought it said devices are stupid and I was like... uh ok. I worked last night and just woke up... sorry!!

Welcome Blue Cat and I couldn't agree more. We have some strong headed folks here, (most of us), but we do respect each other. That is the key I think. I am sure that in the future the intergrity of our site may be tested by some less than respectful comments but I honestly think the community will react in a mature way to the negativity. We have far more important things to discuss than how ignorant someone elses comment may have been. Hope that came out right I am zombified!!!

Semele

[Shatav]

I think the site has already gone through some of those trials, Semele. But we have to keep in mind that strong opinions make for strong debates, and with typing as your only media, it's often hard to tell the difference between a debate and a fight with "less respectful comments". I always try and keep that in mind anytime I read a post that tweaks my "soapbox button". In general, most everyone else here is the same way as well. There are no stupid questions, there are no useless positions, there are no wrong beliefs. IMHO

[Witchbourne]

I know that that sounded really bad. I wanted to show you guys a few examples of the things that irritate me. I think that novices should be treated with as much respect as any Elder. I also think that they are just as magickal potent as anyone else. Everyone is a novice at sometime in their life.

What I am about to show you are not examples of my views! Please do not flame me for them! I just wanted to show some of the ways in which people even in paganism, treat each other. I have said it before and I will say it again... We are all equal here!

"If at this time you really feel that there's nothing to
be done with this person but to perform a binding
spell, you could sort of take comfort in the fact that
since your a novice, you'll probably not be all that
effective anyway. It'll be great practice, and it
might give you the psychological boost that you seem to
need the most."

"Finally put your actions where you mouth is and just get out of Paganism and stop throwing your negitivity around here. PERIOD.

TO ALL THOSE READING THIS: lets let this guy burn out this fire of his. This site wouldn't be here if we were'nt prowd pagans. His negitivity and spite should end here. DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POSTING."

"I found this site Why Wiccan suck I think it is a good site for any serious Wiccans as opposed to fluffys who just bought there Silver Ravenwolf "teen witch kit". It is generally informative and sometimes houmorous. "

"I can;t believe this guy had the nerve to call me ignorant.
We put up with yuo because we can ignore you and we dont have a moderator to delete your posts. Otherwise we'd be happpy to delete your idiodic banter. Try having some respect for people, what are you 8 years old? Grow up."

"I am a Wiccan, been so for almost 20 years. If you want to ask something please go ahead. But be warned that if what you post is just to mess with us here I will delete it. I already had to delete all the posts of 3 users who posted their garbage here and am going to set it up so that they never post here again.
Sorry for their crud, folks. I wanted this board to be better than that."

What are your thoughts on this kind of attitude?

Kaylara
*********************************************
Dear Kaylara!

But this is nothing new..non?.....i mean this has allways acured...i would say to you to ignore them as i ignore them....because often they who talk in sucha way that they think they are kings and queens..are for the most only assholes anyway....

Blessed be*

[Mairwen]

I think that novices should be treated with as much respect as any Elder. I also think that they are just as magickal potent as anyone else. Everyone is a novice at sometime in their life.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Too often, people tend to forget that they, too, were once at the "beginning" of something, and tend to "look down" on people who are "too young" or "not as knowledgeable". In our Tradition, we say, "The process of teaching is also a process of learning. Every experience gives us an opportunity to learn. Every student is also a teacher. Any teacher who forgets this fails, both as a teacher, and as a student." I think that's very wise! :D

I do have a problem with "elitist" and "ageist" groups and people, however. I see it all the time, and gave up trying to talk to these types ages ago ~ there's no getting through to them because they want to live in their own "little boxes" ~ they see things how they see them; period. I've had my fill of people telling me I can't be or do this or that because of this or that ~ their rules, according to them or their tradition, not mine. And that's not what Paganism is all about. :(

I'll tell you briefly this one experience that Ariannon and I both had with this one online group of women. (I won't name the group ~ for various and obvious reasons.)

She joined and all was going well, then petitioned for me to join, as well ~ and I waited for weeks with no answer ~ so she finally asked what the problem was. Well, then, the next thing we know, Ariannon was tossed out of the group, and we're both getting somewhat nasty e-mails from the "head" of the group. Now, without even taking a chance to get to know me, this woman made all sorts of assumptions about me and my intentions (and that really gets under my skin) ~ all from just skimming over my webpages and seeing my e-mail address; she never really did read anything in depth (or if she did, she twisted things to suit her own connotations, as people often do. The whole point is that this woman automatically assumed that because I'm already an established HPs, that I was going to come into her group, armed with Ariannon by my side, and take it over!

It was a totally ridiculous situation. At the time, I was completely bewildered, but now, it's just funny.

[Semele]

Yeah Mairwen we were afraid you might take over here too!!! Just kidding, I think the correct wording would be we were hoping you would take over... or at least help out!!!

:uzi: Hands up everyone this is a take over!!!

Semele

[eaglewolf]

:rolleyes:

[Mairwen]

:shot:

[Kaylara]

:smash:
Order in the court!
Kaylara

[Mairwen]

ROTFLMAO! :D

~ in some odd, peculiar, bizarre way, that reminds me of my Mr waving his Thor's hammer about ... ~

*where's that coffeepot, again?!*

[Sin Pythia]

Originally posted by Witchbourne

Dear Kaylara!

But this is nothing new..non?.....i mean this has allways acured...i would say to you to ignore them as i ignore them....because often they who talk in sucha way that they think they are kings and queens..are for the most only assholes anyway....

Blessed be*

and what do you do if these certain people happen to be some of your best friends?
i can't just ignore them, it's not possible.
But, I can ignore the moron/prepz that bash me for being open w/ Wicca.
They, I think, are not much of a problem to ignore.
-
Emily, one of my best friends, decided to go on her path after she found out from me what I have learned. (i am still on my novice, btw.. til nov. 6) Her parents are Catholic.
They do not apporve of this, so she has to hide her books and her notes and everything!
My parents, on the other hand, are very understanding.
My mother is Christian, my sister Baptist, my brother Methodist, and my father an evolutionist. he believes i science.
Recently, kate, another good friend, told me it was "illegal to change your reigion".. for she knew that I was once a Christian believer. Kate and a group of my friends have told me over and over again that they do not "approve of this so called 'witchcraft'."
This kind of stuff just makes me more angry.
The fact that me English teacher was teaching that all Wiccans were Satanic made me even more angry.
I guess I have just had an angry week, huh?
If you have any advice for me, i'd love to have it!

you know.

[Witchbourne]

and what do you do if these certain people happen to be some of your best friends?
i can't just ignore them, it's not possible.
But, I can ignore the moron/prepz that bash me for being open w/ Wicca.
They, I think, are not much of a problem to ignore.
-
Emily, one of my best friends, decided to go on her path after she found out from me what I have learned. (i am still on my novice, btw.. til nov. 6) Her parents are Catholic.
They do not apporve of this, so she has to hide her books and her notes and everything!
My parents, on the other hand, are very understanding.
My mother is Christian, my sister Baptist, my brother Methodist, and my father an evolutionist. he believes i science.
Recently, kate, another good friend, told me it was "illegal to change your reigion".. for she knew that I was once a Christian believer. Kate and a group of my friends have told me over and over again that they do not "approve of this so called 'witchcraft'."
This kind of stuff just makes me more angry.
The fact that me English teacher was teaching that all Wiccans were Satanic made me even more angry.
I guess I have just had an angry week, huh?
If you have any advice for me, i'd love to have it!

you know.
*********************************************
hmm...i firstly would like to ask you to think like this....if they really was good friends they would accept your way and your believes....to me they do not sound as good friends....i can tell you that i had to ignore much friends in the beginning of my cycle in to this pagan,Wiccan lifestyle.....but i learned really fast that most of them i thought was my friends really was just selfish bastards....so i did leave them and now i'am only around people who accepts my believes as i accept theres......i know that it's not easy in the beginning..but i'll promies you that you would be happyer if you did find better friends...real ones that will accept you as you are..

I was lucky though that they i live with aren't believers of any faith.....so i have been free to go my own way as i grew up....but i kind of allways held my lifestyle pretty much a secret to them...they only know that i'm intrested in the ocult and nothing more...this was something i desided for myself a long time ago...that what they do not know cant harm them.....so my solitary ways have been mostly in silence and practiced only in silence....and now i have a balance that is working for me and i really hope you will find your balance too...my brightest blessing are with you and if there ever are anything you want to ask...then just e-mail me and if i can answear i will...but i can be a wall to lean on if you feel you have no one else to turn to..i know that people have a hard time accepting our ways and i know that sometimes we just needs to talk with someone....so yes....i'll be a friend when you need one who will not look down on your ways...Blessed be*

[mol]

Originally posted by eaglewolf
:rolleyes:

I hate it when you do that.

:smash:
eaglewolf

[Mairwen]

Hey, is that a hammer in your hand, or ............. :D

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Sin Pythia


My parents, on the other hand, are very understanding.
My mother is Christian, my sister Baptist, my brother Methodist, and my father an evolutionist. he believes i science.

It really IS possible to co-exist! :) My husband is pagan friendly, my daughter is a happy Lutheran, and my son is an agnostic. Works fine......

Maggie

[Twig]

I agree w/ Maggie wholehartedly[ and not because shes my co-moderator :p].

My mate has nothing to do with the pagan path and we have no problem communicating. She is [in her words] reformed catholic.
Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Kaylara]

Read these... Got PO'ed at the intolerence these people have for those who follow the pagan path. It's even more sad because these people are part of an organization for awareness. (You know the one Niamh)

So, without further ado....

"I think the point the author was trying to make is about what happened to the original "wiccan" religion to that which we call wicca today. I dont agree with everything the site says I just think it makes some pretty good points. Woodland commented that "fluffy" names are similar to the board niks we use. I digress nearly everybody on the internet uses a strange nik, but when you start using it in real life thats when you start to worry. And how many people actually read the site the whole way through. I was at first seriously affended by the site, but I took the authors advise to read it the whole way through. And I realised though even I didnt agree with parts alot was good. I reacted to criticism with out ever thinking it might be constructive criticisms. who looked at his parody of a wicca site. I could swear he stole it of somebody, it looked so much like 95% of the sites I had found. I believe the author wrote it to show how "fluffys" where driving many people from wicca. I am not saying that people cannot act and think how they want I just believe the term wiccan should be applied more strictly than it currently is. I also believe wiccan authors should openly acknowledge that life is not always happy. Some do but many promote the view that wiccans are always happy, they dont state this as such but this is how they come off. I believe if people accepted that happiness is an impermenant (I canna spell captain, well I just to lazy to spell properly) state at best, and that there is no way to achieve lasting continous happiness they would find more satisfaction. It worked for me.

P.s Does anybody know any decent wicca sites on the web cause i have find very few that are any good.

P.P.S And I will say I was a fluffy when I first got into wicca (three years ago). And I did some pretty stupid things (carved a pentagram into my hand), I got over it. And I believe evey non-fluffy wiccan should try to help fluffies get over it. I also believe wicca is also caught up in pop culture and pop culture always mutilates any thing it catches. And we cant resist this but what we should do is try and guide it in the right direction, as wicca has no centralized leadership it is up to individuals to do this. Thank you."

"Ya, lets stop complaining about Fluffy Pagans when we see them and try kindly confronting them to bump them into a serious path of study and reverance or show them the light of their sillyness an maybe they'll go back to church. Either way the Fluffies do give us a bad look sometimes and do need positive help."

"I think you will always find people who want to take "a
Primrose Path"; people who just don't have the maturity
to embrace all that life has to offer - no matter how
gritty. There are probably "fluffies" in every
religion, and probably other members of the religion
who are embarassed by them (or just want to smash their
teeth out!).

Do people try to "oversell" Wicca as "being happy all
the time"? Maybe, some of them do. Alot of authors
have YOUR problem - they're just too lazy to learn how
to write!

My biggest concern is with the "fluffies" who grow out
of it, but, thinking that that's what Wicca is really
all about, quit because they think that there's
something wrong with
Wicca. I'm glad to see that you're a reformed-fluffie,
but still Wiccan. BB"

Kaylara

Oh, but to their credit, a few people said that it wasn't ok to be making fun of "fluffy" wiccans, or to even categorize people as such.

[Scarlet Swan]

Originally posted by mol


originally posted by eaglewolf
:rolleyes:
I hate it when you do that.

:smash:
eaglewolf

Don't feel bad mol, he does that to me all of the time.

I just smack him around a bit. ;)

=)

Scarlet Swan