The Wrost Happened

[Vampy]

Well,

it happened i knew it would, sooner or later I mean, good that it happened now, and bully that it didn't happen later... well anyway... I walked in on anthony and his brother kissin and touchin each other the other day, oh musta been 2 weeks, maybe more, now I dont know, the days all seem to run together since this happened, well anyway I had seperated the boys from life, they no longer slept together or anything, well anyway I cant remember what exactly happened but all I knew was that anthony was back from my sisters house to pick up something things when the shit hit the fan... he snapped and said that he would stab me, so I got down on my knees and dared him to... so he picked up my Athame, and swung it at me, he stopped just as the point pricked my chest, so I damn near killed him, I dont know what I did I cant remember for the life of me, all I remember is talking to Val... well anyway that night I put him on a plane to Italy where he will be attending a youth "boot camp" type thing... kinda hard to explain... I didn't know what else to do... I am not saying that all of this is his fault, I mean I know that it is mine as well, and that he needed some understanding and maybe some reaching out... but it has come down to this, the demons that I have fought for so long now are starting to win, so I must do all that I can to protect my children, I am giving them up for adoption to my sister, I am leaving the house and the land to the boys and I am going to go live in Europe, maybe who knows I dont really know... I dont know if I will come back to Mystics, this may be my last post, that I am not sure of... it has all just become to much to fight, I cant do it... I really appreciate all the energy that everyone sent...

Merry Part And Blessed Be...

Forever Yours,

[emmunite]

Blessings to you and yours. I've no clue the history of everything, but, from the post the plea's are deafening. Please...talk to someone NOW. If there's a crisis line or something like that please please make a call. It sounds like you're on an edge and you're not sure where it's going to go. May Goddess and God hold you close while you find hope.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

:hugz:

[Stardevil]

Darlin please be careful. I do not know you or your situation but it sounds like a rather touchy one that is ready to completely explode.. Try to find someway of findinghelp in this crisis and my thoughts are with you

[AterCorax]

I might be wrong, but it sounds to me like you're running away from your problems.

-Ater

[DixieWitch]

:hugz:

Oh and sometimes running away is the last and best thing a person can do in certain situations. Until you've walked in their shoes, don't judge.

[Phoenix Blue]

I might be wrong, but it sounds to me like you're running away from your problems.

-Ater
I might be wrong, but sounds to me like judgmental people are schmucks.

[AterCorax]

:hugz:

Oh and sometimes running away is the last and best thing a person can do in certain situations. Until you've walked in their shoes, don't judge.

The reality is that I can't walk in his shoes and so judging is all I have left. Judging based on known facts coming from him, that is.

-Ater

[AterCorax]

Phoenix, if he didn't want people to judge him, maybe he shouldn't have posted it on a public forum.

I stand by what I've said earlier, and I don't care if that makes me look like the most horrible person on earth.

-Ater

[Phoenix Blue]

Phoenix, if he didn't want people to judge him, maybe he shouldn't have posted it on a public forum.
Hrm. What's that saying? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Yeah, I think that's it.

Instead of making excuses for yourself, maybe you could just admit you said something boneheaded and apologize?

[AterCorax]

Instead of making excuses for yourself, maybe you could just admit you said something boneheaded and apologize?

I make no excuses.

I said nothing of "boneheaded" nature.

I will not apologize.

-Ater

[Phoenix Blue]

I make no excuses.

I said nothing of "boneheaded" nature.

I will not apologize.

-Ater
:rollingla

[AterCorax]

:rolleyes:

-Ater

[Kaylara]

1. No flaming, trolling, or flamebaiting of other members is allowed in this community. This should be fairly easy to understand. No calling each other names, etc. (NOTE: Flamebaiting regards making a statement just to get someone 'mad'. We choose to moderate flamebaiting because well, saying something to make someone mad does NOT add to the conversation. There will be an amount of judgement used in determining if a post is flamebaiting. If YOU have beem moderated and YOU feel it is unjustified then please contact another administrator via PM or email.)

[Gracecat]

This upsets me, it worries me. I don't understand it. Frankly, there are way too many questions here for me to even begin to be comfortable with your situation Vampy. Something deep down worries for your kids. :hugz: for the innocents involved, and feverant well wishing that it sorts itself out to your boys advantage.

Other than that, I have nothing good to say and alot that Kay would have to moderate, so....

[Semele]

Well, I will say it Amytha.

PB... Ater was not being rude, he was telling it like it is. If we do not want people to comment on our lives then a DISCUSSION BOARD is not the place to do so. There are places on MW to post and not have comments...altars for example. Family and parenting...no, that is one of the main places people go looking for advice. So, given Vampy's long history of asking for advice here..one can assume this is his intent in this situation as well. Even if he never comes back to MW to view the advice, many, many others will..and some may benefit.

Now, Vampy does appear to be running from his problems, which is something we all do. If he walked in on his two sons in a situation like he describes, he has a lot of serious issues at hand. He was still trying to process it all when he then gets almost stabbed by one of the sons..the aggressor in the incest story as well, if I recall. Then he beat him..I think. So yeah, I would wanna run away too.

But the question is, How many times can you run away? Why not face it head on and fix the issues. You run, it catches up..on and on. Get to the core. Stand beside your son and tell him that together you will go to therapy and get help. If he refuses to go, then you say goodbye, sign the adoption papers and go get your help.

Why not just use a lil magic to fix it? You gotta be supa-magic to have gotten stabbed, beat your kid and secured an international flight to a "boot camp" in Italy (where you can obviously just call and get in to over the phone, no questions asked.) for an unwilling kid who may just happen to have his passport in fine condition. How much did that flight run ya anyway?

[Erebus]

Why not just use a lil magic to fix it? You gotta be supa-magic to have gotten stabbed, beat your kid and secured an international flight to a "boot camp" in Italy (where you can obviously just call and get in to over the phone, no questions asked.) for an unwilling kid who may just happen to have his passport in fine condition. How much did that flight run ya anyway?

Well, for ex-Navy SEALS, maybe they have a bright red phone on their living-room end tables with a direct line to Italian boot camps and emergency passport agencies.

Vampy and Antoninus need to get together sometime and compare notes about their amazing adventures. They could write a book!

[Phoenix Blue]

PB... Ater was not being rude, he was telling it like it is. If we do not want people to comment on our lives then a DISCUSSION BOARD is not the place to do so. There are places on MW to post and not have comments...altars for example. Family and parenting...no, that is one of the main places people go looking for advice. So, given Vampy's long history of asking for advice here..one can assume this is his intent in this situation as well. Even if he never comes back to MW to view the advice, many, many others will..and some may benefit.
True enough. **Wry smile** I wasn't aware of Vampy's long history of looking for (and ignoring?) advice here.

Ater, I'm sorry. Evidently I'm the one who was being boneheaded, here. :bigredblu

[BlueWaterMoth]

I don't judge people, that's not why I'm here. How you handle the situation is your business, no one elses, Vampy. All I can say is that I have no idea how I would, or if I could, handle that situation.

Maybe there is something waiting for you where you are going that you wouldn't have experianced otherwise. I don't know why this happened, but you and your family will be in my prayers to the Great Mother. Please be careful.

[LadyTrinity]

Ur two children were touching and kissing each other?
It is normal for kids to express sexual desire but not with one another.. Perhaps talking to them sepreatly and tell them. I know it feels good to have another person do stuff with you but that is for when you are a big boy. Don't do that to anyone anymore.. Something like that.. Sue Jo Hasen recommended such talk to children.. if they arent smaller children then I guess not much u can do but tell them its wrong? :awwman:

[AterCorax]

PB... Ater was not being rude, he was telling it like it is. If we do not want people to comment on our lives then a DISCUSSION BOARD is not the place to do so. There are places on MW to post and not have comments...altars for example. Family and parenting...no, that is one of the main places people go looking for advice. So, given Vampy's long history of asking for advice here..one can assume this is his intent in this situation as well. Even if he never comes back to MW to view the advice, many, many others will..and some may benefit.

Thank you. :)

-Ater

[AterCorax]

Ater, I'm sorry. Evidently I'm the one who was being boneheaded, here. :bigredblu

Thank you for the apology.

-Ater

[Valkie]

:hugz:

Don't worry honey... it will all work out for the best, you'll see. I know it doesn't seem that way now. I'll probably talk to you before you see this... but, you know that I'm here for you.

[Erebus]

Ur two children were touching and kissing each other?
It is normal for kids to express sexual desire but not with one another.. Perhaps talking to them sepreatly and tell them. I know it feels good to have another person do stuff with you but that is for when you are a big boy. Don't do that to anyone anymore.. Something like that.. Sue Jo Hasen recommended such talk to children.. if they arent smaller children then I guess not much u can do but tell them its wrong? :awwman:

So is trying to stab one's father with an athame also something that's "normal"?

[Holly Ariadna]

Damn Shane... I feel for you. I'll try to see if I can email you so we can talk. :hugz: You'll be in my prayers.

[Elfa Wylde]

First off: ENOUGH of the JUDGING weather or not people are judging!!
the name calling was out of order too, i think.

Ok.. Secondly:
This time with them (or at least the one) out of the house might give you breather enough to come up with a better plan. I can't say anything... my oldest daughter is in therapy for depression (and possibly 'worse') and I'll be honest... I, too, was thinking that it might be a good idea for her to go live someplace else for a while until she can get herself together enough to live at home.
I agree totally with the folks recommending therapy for the boy, and perhaps some councelling for yourself to help you cope might be in order too...
It'll get better... just might take a while...
_pounce_

[ShaDowElf]

I know I should probably just bite my tounge and ignore this - but sadly I cannot :)

OK maybe I am mistaken (I'm sure someone will tell me if I am :), but isn't the kid in question all of 5 years of age?!?

Kids that age emulate parents - so Vampy any chance he saw you and your SO or his aunt and someone in a comprimising position and decided to try it out himself?

He's 5! You do not ship a 5 yr old to boot camp (in fact I don't think 5 yr olds can travel alone) - did you ask any questions before flipping out?

Because of this post - I actually went back and viewed several of your previous posts - all I have to say is that it's a good thing that I don't know where you live - because I would be seriously tempted to call children's aid.

If the kid did try to stab you he needs help - and he didn't get to this stage all by himself. If you did freak out over him "playing doctor" and ship him off somewhere - then you too need help.

In a previous post - you mentioned being prescribed medication by a shrink - did you ever take them? did you ever get a 2nd opinion?

You are the adult - you need to get help for you before you can fix your son's problems.

Again he's 5! Chill!

And man, you are a former SEAL, your sister is a nerosurgean (but she is going to stay home and take care of 7 kids???) and you are fighting over money? Yea ok - you know you should take up fiction writing.

It seems to me someone is seeking attention and that isn't the 5 yr old child.

Ok that's my 2 cents - flame away - but honestly, I'm just calling it like I see it.

[soilsigh aingeal]

I know I should probably just bite my tounge and ignore this - but sadly I cannot :)

OK maybe I am mistaken (I'm sure someone will tell me if I am :), but isn't the kid in question all of 5 years of age?!?

Kids that age emulate parents - so Vampy any chance he saw you and your SO or his aunt and someone in a comprimising position and decided to try it out himself?

He's 5! You do not ship a 5 yr old to boot camp (in fact I don't think 5 yr olds can travel alone) - did you ask any questions before flipping out?

Because of this post - I actually went back and viewed several of your previous posts - all I have to say is that it's a good thing that I don't know where you live - because I would be seriously tempted to call children's aid.

If the kid did try to stab you he needs help - and he didn't get to this stage all by himself. If you did freak out over him "playing doctor" and ship him off somewhere - then you too need help.

In a previous post - you mentioned being prescribed medication by a shrink - did you ever take them? did you ever get a 2nd opinion?

You are the adult - you need to get help for you before you can fix your son's problems.

Again he's 5! Chill!

And man, you are a former SEAL, your sister is a nerosurgean (but she is going to stay home and take care of 7 kids???) and you are fighting over money? Yea ok - you know you should take up fiction writing.

It seems to me someone is seeking attention and that isn't the 5 yr old child.

Ok that's my 2 cents - flame away - but honestly, I'm just calling it like I see it.I agree.

[Valkie]

In your own words.... chill. There is much more to this story than he has posted and the shortage of complete information does skew it a bit. Unfortunately... there is no such thing as a perfect parent, so before you start blasting him for what he has put in about his family life, I'd suggest you'd remember that little fact.

[Sylvan]

Ah, but ShaDowElf *did* go back and at least read Vampy's past posts...
And I tend to agree with him/her (sorry!).

[soilsigh aingeal]

In your own words.... chill. There is much more to this story than he has posted and the shortage of complete information does skew it a bit. Unfortunately... there is no such thing as a perfect parent, so before you start blasting him for what he has put in about his family life, I'd suggest you'd remember that little fact.We're all humans here, and as humans we form opinions. It's hard not to have an opinion of this situation even though it may be skewed. If someone does not want this kind of reaction from people, he should A) not talk about it at all or B) give the whole story so our opinions are a little different. I can see from reading through past posts that we do not have the full story. That does not mean my thoughts won't wander and start forming opinions on the matter. It is my opinion that anyone who can "damn near kill" a five year old for TELLING (yes, that is what dare means to a five year old, hell, that's what dare means to me) them to do something. And then talk about it on a public message board. By saying "damn near kill" I am led to believe he beat the crap out of his kid. Yes, I realize that that could mean just a simple spank on the bottom, but I doubt anyone would want to run away from something as small as that, so that's why I'm lead to believe that. And if someone is not willing to get their child and themselves, the help that they need, than it is my opinion that that person does not deserve to have a child.

Now, I'll probably be Admin'd/flamed but oh well, that's my opinion.

[ShaDowElf]

You are right Valkie - I probably don't know the entire story - but the part that Vampy posted is the part I am referring to.

I am a mother of a 7 yr old son - ya I have had problems with him too - I get just as frustrated as many parents do - however, I respond like an adult. I do not flip out nor do I post on a public forum on how I flipped out and expect sympathy for it.

If Vampy didn't want opinions, then he shouldn't be posting here.

I have read many of Vampy's posts - his oldest son is 5, he has 3 other sons all younger.

I have read posts where he complains that his son is still mad at him and won't accept his apologies. The kid is 5! I cannot comprehend anyone expecting a 5 yr old to understand all that those kids are going through right now.

Vampy has written so many things that I find very far-fetched - I truly hope that this situation is just another story.

I am honestly not trying to just flame Vampy - and if I did know where he lived - I would call children's aid - I am very afraid for those children.

[Faerin]

I agree Shadowelf.

I hope Vampy gets it all worked out, with his children and with himself. Blessed Be

[aluokaloo]

I'm not entirely sure what's going on Vampy, but love and protection to you and yours, I know you'll do what you think is best for everyone involved.

[Valkie]

So far, I haven't met one person who willing puts up every aspect of their entire life on a public forum for discussion. Yes, this issue may be centered around parenting, but parenting is the culmination of all life's experiences that become directed toward your children.

I know that he was saying that he didn't remember what happened, just that he was talking to me. Honestly, I think he was too drunk to remember much after that. To set the record straight, no, he didn't beat him. He didn't hit him or spank him. He just called his sister to have her come and pick them up, explained to her what happened and that he wanted them separated at all times. Anthony refused to talk to him for a couple of days. The day that the situation with the athame happen was the first time that they had talked with each other in over a couple of days.

and as far as I remember, he never put down that he wasn't getting help, or refused to get help for his and Anthony's problems. That's an assumption that was made. It seems like the only thing that everyone is seeing in his post is that Anthony attacked him and he egged him on about it. His is giving his 3 youngest kids a stable home by giving them up to his sister. He is setting it up so that everything he has in the states is going to them and their care. yes, he is moving to Europe... to be closer to Anthony and help him through all of this so they can get help together.

I don't see how anyone can see this as him not being responsible for what is going on, not acting like an adult, or as running away from their problems.

[soilsigh aingeal]

he snapped and said that he would stab me, so I got down on my knees and dared him to... so he picked up my Athame, and swung it at me, he stopped just as the point pricked my chest, so I damn near killed him, I dont know what I did I cant remember for the life of me, all I remember is talking to Val... He got down on his knees and DARED him. I don't know about anyone else but I call that egging on

well anyway that night I put him on a plane to Italy where he will be attending a youth "boot camp" type thing... kinda hard to explain... I didn't know what else to do... I am not saying that all of this is his fault, I mean I know that it is mine as well, and that he needed some understanding and maybe some reaching out... but it has come down to this, the demons that I have fought for so long now are starting to win, so I must do all that I can to protect my children, I am giving them up for adoption to my sister, I am leaving the house and the land to the boys and I am going to go live in Europe, maybe who knows I dont really know... I dont know if I will come back to Mystics, this may be my last post, that I am not sure of... it has all just become to much to fight, I cant do it... Putting child on a plane to Italy right away, for one thing, does not even sound possible, unless he's someone special. I'm not saying he isn't but come on. No interventions? Just stick the kid on a plane? That doesn't sound like getting help. Not to mention the fact that he says that he will be going to live in Europe, not Italy. it doesn't say anything about going so he can be near his son, so my mind is automatically going in the direction that there will be no counseling or further intervention.

I too find a lot of these posts, far fetched.

[Sylvan]

Not to mention the past posts... The very first being about a family tradition of tattooing children at age 5? The weapons that he carries on him at all times, the guns in his home, the children all sleeping in his bed with him, the gun accidentally firing through the pillow that his child sleeps on, driving the children at top speed through a field and then getting pissed at the tree that jumped out in front of them and causing a major accident...
And now this?
I'm sorry, I'm just a tad bit skeptical of the entire story from day one.

[AterCorax]

Yay, people finally agree with me!

Honestly, I think he was too drunk to remember much after that.

Hmm, are you trying to fix his image or damage it?

-Ater

[Valkie]

I concede... mainly because I don't have or desire the need to argue about this.

you view his posts as being far fetched... you'd probably call me a flat out lier for some of the things that I've seen and known of my friends doing. The point is that just because things like this don't exist in your reality, doesn't mean that they don't exist in anyones.

A majority of these posts on this thread are for no other reason than for the person posting them to put themselves on a pedastle about how they never react out of anger, or frustration, or confusion.... and heavens forbid actually drinking. :goodgrief Please... we're human, everyone screws up at some point in time and just because you think that he's screwing up with this, it doesn't mean that he's not doing what he believes is best for his kid.

This thread has turned into a public flame. It isn't about giving Vampy advice or asking him why he did what he's doing, or even sending a cyber hug. It's about several people calling him a lier (and yes, when you tell someone that their story is far fetched, that's just a nice way of saying they're lying) and several others jumping in to throw a curt remark.

So, as I said, I concede and leave this discussion to the gossip hounds.

[soilsigh aingeal]

Well, like I said before, since everything is "skewed," some of us have no choice but to think what we do. And just because people aren't supportive of sending a kid off to another country for something that could have been resolved in their own, does not make them putting themselves on a pedastle.

[Elfa Wylde]

I have to put in another two bits here....
first: the boy is ONLY five??? oh boy, c'mon, man... girls and boys BOTH experiment with same sex fondling and kissing at that age!! I did.. the neighbor kids did.. my own girls did! We all got caught.... and, depending on how our parents reacted, we lived through it just fine to become 'normal' folks.
Second: I'd like to retract what i posted last. That was when i gave everyone the benefit of the doubt and ALSO guessed the boy to be closer to 14 or so.... Our youngest once threatened her father that she would "take your ribs out" if he didn't let her have something or other. she was 7. He said "ok" and still didn't let her have what she wanted.
She had a fit.. we went home.. she got over it.
thirdly: I don't know about your homelife. I don't know your situation... but going strictly by what you've posted here and what others have illuded to, I'd recommend SERIOUS FAMILY[I][U] councelling. There are things hidden here that aren't mentioned I'm sure... and really.. this probably isn't the place to talk about them... You can't really come to someone, tell them about an isolated incident, ask for advice, and expect it to help. No one knows what's really going on here. Please.. for you... for your kids... for all of you... get some Professional Help. There's no stigma attatched to it... doesn't make you less of a man or father to say "dammit... i really need some help here."
Fourth: Ok... what's the point of bashing, flaming, scandalizing, and generally being nasty?
This guy came to us for help... some offered what they could... but others... well... It's not going to help anyone to go on about past failures. Everyone... and i mean EVERYONE has immature... even STUPID moments. Like this morning when i told my daughter that i "didn't care" if she felt good or not. Of course I do... i care VERY much... but the actual situation is this: she got up after everyone was asleep, watched TV, ate a bunch of apple crisp, has allergies, sinus drainage... and... (here's the topper) has a test in math today. Get it? I'm not saying that if you have a better Idea of what's going on or what's gone on than I do, that you shouldn't mention it to him... I'm saying that if you do... perhaps a PM might be a better place? Sorry... I know what it's like to do something while caught up in what's going on personally then not live it down for a LONG time.
I just really hope no one's as right as they think they are...

To the fellow again:
Good luck, hon... if you need some energy sent... or a candle lit... feel free to call on me.

any of you can.

[faerieridingdragons]

Please forgive me as I'm quite confused by this post.I have read all of it along with more than a dozen of Vampy's past posts.What I'm confused about is that his child wasn't the only one caught exploring,his fiancee's 6yo daughter was also caught with a friend's child.Also he states he gave custody of his kids to his sister,but says in another post that he wants to adopt his fiancee's friend's kids.Like alot of you have said I don't know the whole story,but I would suggest counciling{both seperately and family group}.I don't know why Vampy would feel the need to send this child away,as doing such will more than likely endup causing even more of an abadonment issue with him,and thus will cause more harm than good.I would also be interested to know what the sister has to say about all this,as she is the one with custody.Like it has been stated before we can only make opions based on what the person posts,but several of his posts are quite baffling.Again I would like to apoligize if I have offended anyone,as that was not my intention,I just find it all very confusing.

[Vampy]

Well, I will say it Amytha.

PB... Ater was not being rude, he was telling it like it is. If we do not want people to comment on our lives then a DISCUSSION BOARD is not the place to do so. There are places on MW to post and not have comments...altars for example. Family and parenting...no, that is one of the main places people go looking for advice. So, given Vampy's long history of asking for advice here..one can assume this is his intent in this situation as well. Even if he never comes back to MW to view the advice, many, many others will..and some may benefit.

Now, Vampy does appear to be running from his problems, which is something we all do. If he walked in on his two sons in a situation like he describes, he has a lot of serious issues at hand. He was still trying to process it all when he then gets almost stabbed by one of the sons..the aggressor in the incest story as well, if I recall. Then he beat him..I think. So yeah, I would wanna run away too.

But the question is, How many times can you run away? Why not face it head on and fix the issues. You run, it catches up..on and on. Get to the core. Stand beside your son and tell him that together you will go to therapy and get help. If he refuses to go, then you say goodbye, sign the adoption papers and go get your help.

Why not just use a lil magic to fix it? You gotta be supa-magic to have gotten stabbed, beat your kid and secured an international flight to a "boot camp" in Italy (where you can obviously just call and get in to over the phone, no questions asked.) for an unwilling kid who may just happen to have his passport in fine condition. How much did that flight run ya anyway?


ok lets see... this has gone far w/o me here... lol... the flight had cost me quite a pretty penny, last minute (so to speak),the boot camp had been secured ever since everything first started with Anthony,

and I dont think I remember saying that I beat him, if I made it seem like that then sorry, I WANTED not did...

[Vampy]

True enough. **Wry smile** I wasn't aware of Vampy's long history of looking for (and ignoring?) advice here.

Ater, I'm sorry. Evidently I'm the one who was being boneheaded, here. :bigredblu


lol... just because I seem like I ignore it... eventually I see the truth in it and take it!

[Vampy]

First off: ENOUGH of the JUDGING weather or not people are judging!!
the name calling was out of order too, i think.

Ok.. Secondly:
This time with them (or at least the one) out of the house might give you breather enough to come up with a better plan. I can't say anything... my oldest daughter is in therapy for depression (and possibly 'worse') and I'll be honest... I, too, was thinking that it might be a good idea for her to go live someplace else for a while until she can get herself together enough to live at home.
I agree totally with the folks recommending therapy for the boy, and perhaps some councelling for yourself to help you cope might be in order too...
It'll get better... just might take a while...
_pounce_


I dont care weither you judge me or not... you dont know me...

[Vampy]

You are right Valkie - I probably don't know the entire story - but the part that Vampy posted is the part I am referring to.

I am a mother of a 7 yr old son - ya I have had problems with him too - I get just as frustrated as many parents do - however, I respond like an adult. I do not flip out nor do I post on a public forum on how I flipped out and expect sympathy for it.

If Vampy didn't want opinions, then he shouldn't be posting here.

I have read many of Vampy's posts - his oldest son is 5, he has 3 other sons all younger.

I have read posts where he complains that his son is still mad at him and won't accept his apologies. The kid is 5! I cannot comprehend anyone expecting a 5 yr old to understand all that those kids are going through right now.

Vampy has written so many things that I find very far-fetched - I truly hope that this situation is just another story.

I am honestly not trying to just flame Vampy - and if I did know where he lived - I would call children's aid - I am very afraid for those children.

Elf.. is this not a place to come and bitch? and get out frustrations... if you will recall sense ur an avid reader of my past, i do kinda live alone

[Vampy]

I am honestly not trying to just flame Vampy - and if I did know where he lived - I would call children's aid - I am very afraid for those children.

LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING ELF... I HAVE NEVER DONE NOTHING TO HARM MY CHILDREN, STOP READING THE NEGATIVE AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE POSITIVE, I LOVE MY CHILDREN WITH ALL OF MY HEART, AND HOW DARE U EVEN INCINUATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MY CHILDREN ARE MY LIFE, WITHOUTH THEM I HAVE NOTHING LEFT, SO BEFORE YOU EVER MAKE A GODS DAMNED INCINUATION MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

[Vampy]

Not to mention the past posts... The very first being about a family tradition of tattooing children at age 5? The weapons that he carries on him at all times, the guns in his home, the children all sleeping in his bed with him, the gun accidentally firing through the pillow that his child sleeps on, driving the children at top speed through a field and then getting pissed at the tree that jumped out in front of them and causing a major accident...
And now this?
I'm sorry, I'm just a tad bit skeptical of the entire story from day one.


Um sylvan? Sarcasam is a foriegn language for u aint it? I was joking about the tree... and i wasn't driving at top speed tyvm!

and for your infor I aint the only one that doesn't leave the house armed... have u ever heard of a GUN COLLECTOR... look it up... ya might learn something

[Vampy]

He got down on his knees and DARED him. I don't know about anyone else but I call that egging on

Putting child on a plane to Italy right away, for one thing, does not even sound possible, unless he's someone special. I'm not saying he isn't but come on. No interventions? Just stick the kid on a plane? That doesn't sound like getting help. Not to mention the fact that he says that he will be going to live in Europe, not Italy. it doesn't say anything about going so he can be near his son, so my mind is automatically going in the direction that there will be no counseling or further intervention.

I too find a lot of these posts, far fetched.


OK yes... I snapped, and getting down on my nears and daring him was the wrong thing to do... how would u act if ur child said something like that to u...

and the camp will be therapy for him... he will learn dicipline, and still manage to go to school.. i am looking at a psychologist that can help him... and I am going to be living in italy for your information... that way my son will know that I am there no matter what...

[Vampy]

Ya know what.. screw it...

I am not gonna sit here and defend myself... I agree with Val... just because something doesn't happen to u doesn't make it not normal...

What pisses me off... is I come for help... I sent my child to italy to be able to think before I did anything rash...

ya know what maybe it would make you happy if I just murdered them out of anger? Wouldn't that make a nice story for a mass email... tragic community loss, although expected, Vampy murdered his four children last night, then commited suicide leaving a note, that said, "...I cant take it anymore, I had no one to turn to..."

All I have found in this forum are a bunch of people that want to be hypocrits, and a bunch of people that are close minded who refuse to be open minded of other people... its a wonder that 10,000 ppl made it to this site... hell I am surprised half of them didn't run away, wait let me guess.... they fit into ur perfect world of normalcy...

this is what I get in a time of need is a bunch of bullshit...

To all those who helped and supported me, I appreciate it... you have helped me more than anyone can guess... although I seem to have ignored your advice, it was taken to heart, and acted out when I had a chance to think about it... to those who chose to discriminate, refuse to accept me as being me... pucker up, close your eyes, and kiss my ITALIAN ASS!

[AterCorax]

In the midst of all this fixing of your son and all that nice stuff, you forgot one thing:

Yourself.

Try working on that.

OK yes... I snapped, and getting down on my nears and daring him was the wrong thing to do... how would u act if ur child said something like that to u...

If you're grown up enough to father four children in the first place, why not try acting like an adult?

-Ater

[Vampy]

hey... look here... I have been through hell and high water... sorry if i snap every now and then

[AterCorax]

hey... look here... I have been through hell and high water... sorry if i snap every now and then

That's all understandable. But next time why not snap in a room without any dangerous weapons around? And plus, if he is indeed 5 or around that age, what did you think he was gonna do? He's a kid.

-Ater

[Vampy]

That's all understandable. But next time why not snap in a room without any dangerous weapons around? And plus, if he is indeed 5 or around that age, what did you think he was gonna do? He's a kid.

-Ater


Umm... yea I choose a time and a place to snap... do you think I thought what he would do... I snapped! Hello ya ever snapped? its not a calm thing that u think through.

[AterCorax]

Umm... yea I choose a time and a place to snap... do you think I thought what he would do... I snapped! Hello ya ever snapped? its not a calm thing that u think through.

Agatha Christie calls it "Italian temper" or some such. ;)

You should work on that. :halohead: (Screaming can be a good thing to do when you snap. Just a suggestion...)

-Ater

[Vampy]

Agatha Christie calls it "Italian temper" or some such. ;)

You should work on that. :halohead: (Screaming can be a good thing to do when you snap. Just a suggestion...)

-Ater


Hah... yea I have a big temper and I don't have it under control, but who can with that big of a temper?

[AterCorax]

Hah... yea I have a big temper and I don't have it under control, but who can with that big of a temper?

This reminds me of something that happened a few years ago... Oh wait, it doesn't.

Anyway, just let your calmer side come out (with therapy? with meditation?) and see how it is possible.

-Ater

DISCLAIMER: I am a very smart person who doesn't know much. Please listen to me. I am always right.

[Vampy]

I meditate... there are just times that things hit that are more than I can take, normally it isn't round the kids...

[AterCorax]

I meditate... there are just times that things hit that are more than I can take, normally it isn't round the kids...

That's good, then.

Just try doing some caliming experises or what not when you get close to that snap oint and just walk out of the room or something.

It's a lot healthier, and it can save your life. ;)

-Ater

[Vampy]

yea I know whatch ya mean

[Sylvan]

Um sylvan? Sarcasam is a foriegn language for u aint it? I was joking about the tree... and i wasn't driving at top speed tyvm!

and for your infor I aint the only one that doesn't leave the house armed... have u ever heard of a GUN COLLECTOR... look it up... ya might learn something
At any rate, your stories are more than enough to make several people here fear for your childrens' safety (if there even are any children).

[Sylvan]

So because I don't believe in the fantastic stories you tell, *I'm* ignorant? :wtf:
Maybe I should be. Maybe I should just ignore you and your stories like I had been doing. It's less stressful, not trying to converse with "u". :rolleyes:

[bridgewitch]

is everyone finished now??? Do we all feel better? Speaking as an "outsider", bering fairly new to the board, here is what I see:
1. You are a father. Many of us are mothers. Women and men communicate and reacti emotionally in diametrically opposed styles.
2. Men witnessing what you did would have exactly the same reaction..MY kid is a fag". Mothers would be like...well you read the other posts.
3. The kid was as pissed as you were and had there been a hammer handy, well, hello Maxwell (an obscure reference to a song by the Beatles, Maxwell's silver hammer)
4. Unless you are independently wealthy, you could have gotten him care in the States, but at least you are getting him some care, and hopefully the place he is will have conjoint sessions with you.
5. How do you think the others are gonna feel now tho? They gret dumped out of their home and dad goes off to Italy..,.now you are going to have some serious abandonment issues to work thru
6. Where is your So in all this chaos ? Is she supporting you at all? It seems like you are hurting and angry and there is just a big black void where your support and kissing boo boos should be.
7. Please do try and get some control over your anger. If you are seeing someone, talk to them and try and work thru the issues that make you carry such a huge load of anger around in the first place.
8. If you can forgive and forget, and remember you had the moms versus the dads going on here, they I think you will find that you will have support here as well.
9. Sending energy to you and yours. Blessed Be!

[Vampy]

ya know that is the nicest thing...

thats exactly what I needed, thank you oh so much

[~~Vampy's~~Boo~~]

Ah, but ShaDowElf *did* go back and at least read Vampy's past posts...
And I tend to agree with him/her (sorry!).
dont u think that comment was a lil childish just a ? is all

[~~Vampy's~~Boo~~]

ok lets see... this has gone far w/o me here... lol... the flight had cost me quite a pretty penny, last minute (so to speak),the boot camp had been secured ever since everything first started with Anthony,

and I dont think I remember saying that I beat him, if I made it seem like that then sorry, I WANTED not did...
i am gonna beat my daughter
allyson im gonna throw u in the garbage
i have even said i am gonna kill that kid do i mean it no
it is a way for me to vent my kids laugh everytime i say it
they know i dont mean it and i am far from a perfect parent
and anyone who sits in judgement of others and has not been there done that
then they really arent very good people now r they
someday ur words will come back and haunt u
no one always makes the right choices especialy when its something this bad
i am speaking from experience
my brother was so horrible he makes vampy and anthony look like angels
its so easy to say well if it was me i would.....
all i have to say is someday someday look out u will be at a loss...
u wont know what to do....
and you wont have all the answers and u may even be afraid to ask for help
love to all
amanda

[emmunite]

Hmmmm...wow....I'm not sure where to even go with all this. This seems to have disintegrated. I'm relatively new to MW and as I stated before I've no idea of the history of any of this. Bottom line...we're not there. We're not in his shoes. We're entitled to our opinions and our conjecture. I hope that all of you and yours are safe Vampy. And I wonder, what would have or could happen if we sent a moment of healing energy instead of fighting here about this. I pray for the safety of your children, yourself and all others immediately involved in this quagmire.

It's disheartining to give advice over and over again and have it go unheeded. But, for a moment, wonder why that is. I'm not saying that's what's happened...but...think about it. Hopefully, all will stay safe and as intact as they can be.

[soilsigh aingeal]

i am gonna beat my daughter
allyson im gonna throw u in the garbage
i have even said i am gonna kill that kid do i mean it no
it is a way for me to vent my kids laugh everytime i say it
they know i dont mean it and i am far from a perfect parent
and anyone who sits in judgement of others and has not been there done that
then they really arent very good people now r they
someday ur words will come back and haunt u
no one always makes the right choices especialy when its something this bad
i am speaking from experience
my brother was so horrible he makes vampy and anthony look like angels
its so easy to say well if it was me i would.....
all i have to say is someday someday look out u will be at a loss...
u wont know what to do....
and you wont have all the answers and u may even be afraid to ask for help
love to all
amandayeah, I've said I'm gonna kick her butt, and I've said I'd like to toss her in the trash can, and my daughter laughs too, every time I say it, and I laugh too when I say it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to tell her I'm gonna do that walking through a store because (as my point was before) YOU NEVER KNOW WHO IS TAKING THESE SORTS OF THINGS IN. But ya know what else, I don't make public the ways I discipline her when she does something wrong when it's time to get serious. And the very last thing I would ever do is tell a bunch of people that I damn near killed her regardless if I did it or not. Yelling, screaming, shouting, smacking an arse a couple of times are not damn near killing and to me, those three words would be far from just an exageration in my book. And again, if you don't want people to have the wrong opinion, think twice before hitting the submit button.

[Erebus]

(if there even are any children).

Glad I'm not the first one to say it!

I spend my whole day around children, my entire profession puts me around children, and if these children are actually existant and were anywhere near me, I'd be on the phone to Child Protective Services ASAP. Since I'm a mandatory reporter, and all. If they're THAT FAR from the norm for children, I'm going to go out on a limb and say getting them away from that family is the first and most crucial step towards their rehabilitation and introduction to normal society.

Unfortunately, this is yet another insane, absurdly implausible story piled on top of a rather tall pile of insane, absurdly implausible stories that just get bigger and bigger, like that fish I caught last week, with every new episode.

[Valkie]

Glad I'm not the first one to say it!

I spend my whole day around children, my entire profession puts me around children, and if these children are actually existant and were anywhere near me, I'd be on the phone to Child Protective Services ASAP. Since I'm a mandatory reporter, and all. If they're THAT FAR from the norm for children, I'm going to go out on a limb and say getting them away from that family is the first and most crucial step towards their rehabilitation and introduction to normal society.

Unfortunately, this is yet another insane, absurdly implausible story piled on top of a rather tall pile of insane, absurdly implausible stories that just get bigger and bigger, like that fish I caught last week, with every new episode.

I know... I said I was going to stay out of this... but I can't after that...

First we have a group saying that what he is doing is completely normal for his age. It's normal to be interested in sexuality. It's normal for a 5 year old to be so mad at his father that the child refuses to forgive him. Now you're saying that his entire attitude is abnormal. People, make up your minds.

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!??? NORMAL CHILDREN??!! What bloody planet do you live on? I think that if there is one thing that this community has proven is that there is NO SUCH THING AS NORMAL! If you do infact work with children every day (you know, since there is also a sudden problem with in the community believing what the others have to say), then you would know that EVERY child is different. That doesn't mean that they are being abused or that there is something seriously wrong with the home just because they are not within the norm.

I was an exceptionately quiet child. I liked playing by myself. I didn't talk to alot of kids. I know that I wasn't normal. but you know what, nobody ever called dss on my family because they thought that there was something wrong with the home because I wasn't "normal".

Maybe I'm taking this a little personally because my 2nd was a lot like Anthony. when he was 5, he would get extremely violent and angry about the littlest things. Before that, everyone would tell me that it was just a phase... that he'll out grow it. You know what, he didn't . Unfortunately, I didn't have the resources to do some of the things that Vampy is doing for his kids. He's 8 now... and he's better, but he's better because of 3 years of working with him. Of teaching him how to control his temper, of teaching him to stop and think before he acts.

And ya, I've run into people who thought like you. "It's not normal for a child of that age to have a temper like that".... One of them that really sticks out in my mind was a clerk at a store. Joe started having a fit, hubby brought him outside so that he wouldn't break anything, put him in a body lock just like our pediatrician told us to, and that ever so lovely clerk has the gall to tell me that she was going to call security because what hubby was doing was "child abuse".

whoopie. You're a manatory reporter. So what. 1.What ever information you have is 2nd hand. 2. It wouldn't make a lick of difference if you reported or not because he doesn't have custody of the younger 3 and Anthony is out of juristiction. But then again... you don't believe that he even has any children... so what would you report?

[mama reflecting]

Well... I'd say the most concerning things mentioned were these:

-That the father was drunk, or drank himself silly afterword (as evidenced by Valkie).
-That the child, around 5yrs of age, was allowed to (and indeed encouraged to) attack his father with a lethal weapon. (Children of this age group do not fully understand the concept of severe physical injury and death.)
-That the child, around 5yrs of age, was allowed to board a flight out of the country with no parent or legal guardian stated (Which, last time I checked, was a legal impossibility. Minors cannot fly IN the States without a parent or legal guardian, I believe. Not a clue for out of the *country*, but I have the feeling it's very, very strict.)
-That the father would react so violently/angrily to seeing two young children experimenting with pleasurable touch, which is a psychologically normal activity for their age group.
-That the father is combating seperation/abandonment issues by sending one child out of the country (weeks or months prior to the father's move), and sending the other children to his sister's house. (I would be curious to know if this has been discussed with a child welfare counsilor or child psychologist.
-That the father reportedly has loaded weapons near the very young children, who as afformentioned, would have no true understanding of the concept of severe injury or death. (Gun collecting is fine, as long as the weapons aren't loaded or shown as toys, yes?)

There are numerous other concepts/situations that concern me, but those would be the main ones.

Vampy, it is completely normal for small children to experiment; ie explore eachother's bodies and senses. Just as children love stimulation from music or colours, and like to explore it by banging on pots or finger painting, they also love touch and kisses... and if mommy or daddy touch and kiss them, they don't understand why they shouldn't do it to others. Also, while adults know that siblings probably shouldn't touch eachother's most sensitive places, small children do not know that it is "wrong", and merely like the way it feels. It has no sexual context for them.

***I can understand your getting upset over it. *** For many people who may not know the psychological drives behind it, they may see a child in a straight path for incest, sexuality that you may not approve of, or even promiscuous behevior as an adult. This simply isn't the case. Nearly all children "play doctor" at this age, younger, and sometimes a few years older as well. Nearly all of them turn out to be well-adjusted adults.

Screaming at a child or threatening them, or encouraging violence on their part, is probably not a good way to deal with this situation. Anger, confusion, or frustration is a natural reaction on your part. A good way to deal with this is to seperate the children, tell the child that "Daddy is very angry with you right now. You are going to stay here in your room, and when I am ready"(or "When I think you're ready" if you feel that admitting a weakness is bad for your authority figure)" I will come back and talk with you about this." Then shut the door, and go cool off. Just shut the door. Leave the area. Junior will be fine. Meditate, pace, call a friend, scream into a pillow, punch a couch, go out and kick a tree. Anything but teach the child that it's okay to attack others when they're upset.

Remember: a young child doesn't understand what they mean when they say "I want to kill you!" They don't know what death is. What they're really saying is "I'm very very angry at you! I want to take it out on you!" I am positive that your son would seriously regret actually harming you, especially as he got older and understood what he'd done.

Okay. I'm sure you get the point. Enough about that, right? Mistakes happen.

That all aside, I think that counselling *together* would be wonderful for you and your son. One on one with a psychologist is a great way to learn about yourself, or for your son to express what his feeliings and views on the situation are. (Yes, little kids have feelings and views, even if "Daddy's mean and hates me, so I want to show him that I don't need him.") However, as I'm sure the psych would tell you, it's also really really important to have a therapy session together every once in a while. That way junior can tell you himself that he hates you. This gives you the oppourtunity to ask why. He can tell you why (Ie: "You don't want me."). This is a golden chance to tell and show him just how much you *do* love and want him.

Always reinforce how much you do love and want him. This is sooooo very important. He's angry because he doesn't understand the situation, and as a young child, he really can't. You have to explain it to him in a way he can understand, and let him tell you what really is upsetting him the most. If you want a good relationship with him, you must compromise.


Be careful with the "boot camp" thing... a lot of them can actually be very damaging for children. He needs to know that you love him, and that you've sent him there because you want him to be safe and happy, not because you want to get rid of him.

Out of curiosity, is it more of a strict boarding school than a militaristic "camp"? For a child who has a confusing home life, the structure of a boarding school can be very therapudic. He just needs to know that you love him. Mushy as that sounds, it's the most important part.

If you are feeling overwhelmed, and aren't sure how to proceed, I do think it's very responsible of you to try to get yourself some alone time to sort it all out. It's very responsible to put them in a place where they will be safe and loved. That isn't the complete solution, but it is a good temporary solution.

I think the best thing would be to work everything out with your son as soon as possible. Make absolutely sure that you keep in contact with your other sons. Even if you can't be there more than once or twice a year, phone as often as possible. Send them letters, even just a card with stickers. It's those kind of things that let the kids know how much you love them. As long as they know you love them, and you wish you could be with them, they will keep their hope and faith in you. That is the most important part.

I don't know anything much more about you. I certainly don't know you personally. I think you are trying to do the best you can for your children. In the future, though, it might be best to cool off before posting to an online community (especially one that, in general, abhors violence and anger).

If you'd like to PM me or e-mail me, feel free to do so. I can be a vent, if you'd like. I'll give you the best advice I know of. As a single father, it must be overwhelmingly frustrating for you. And if your views on sexuality are more traditional, I can completely understand why you reacted so strongly.

Just make sure your kids know that you love them. Don't drop out of their life - they need you more than anything else. Make absolutely sure that your son recieves therapy, and that you do too. Go together. He's only five years old. You still have time to work everything out. Waiting until he's a pre-teen will completely ruin it. He probably doesn't even understand why he was sent away.

I really do wish you the best on this, and I'm saying a little prayer for you. Whether there are deeper issues at hand, or you are merely overwhelmed by a complex situation, a prayer certainly can do no harm. I mean no insult by it. :rubhead:

[Erebus]

Sorry, Valkie, don't really care what you say, a five-year-old attacking his father with a knife does not in any fashion constitute a "normal" child, no matter what your definition of "normal" is. A father daring his five year-old son to attack him is also not normal, no matter what your definition of "normal" is.

In fact, none of the posts Vampy has ever made has described children as normal* children generally act... and for that matter, no post Vampy has ever made has described Vampy acting in a way that a rational adult would generally act.

It's one thing to believe in fairies and Atlantis. It's quite another to believe that the serious fish stories-- err, I mean, events -- Vampy has described fall anywhere within two standard deviations of the mean with regard to "family quarrels". Agressive repeated homosexual incest, attempted patricide, gunfire, alcoholism, kids taking deadly weapons to school, mysteriously available flights to boot camps in Italy... what country do you live in where this sort of thing is perfectly normal and acceptable and leads to kids becoming healthy, functioning adults? :wtf:

If these are real children (which I doubt), it's a good thing they're being sent away from that family. If Vampster's posts are in any way, shape, or form a marginally accurate depiction of his family situation, those kids need to be sent far, far, far away and never be allowed to return.

<cartman> Respect my opinion! </cartman>


*("normal" being defined as "lacking things like AMA-recognized personality disorders, for example, Antisocial Personality Disorder".)

[Vampy]

I know... I said I was going to stay out of this... but I can't after that...

First we have a group saying that what he is doing is completely normal for his age. It's normal to be interested in sexuality. It's normal for a 5 year old to be so mad at his father that the child refuses to forgive him. Now you're saying that his entire attitude is abnormal. People, make up your minds.

ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!??? NORMAL CHILDREN??!! What bloody planet do you live on? I think that if there is one thing that this community has proven is that there is NO SUCH THING AS NORMAL! If you do infact work with children every day (you know, since there is also a sudden problem with in the community believing what the others have to say), then you would know that EVERY child is different. That doesn't mean that they are being abused or that there is something seriously wrong with the home just because they are not within the norm.

I was an exceptionately quiet child. I liked playing by myself. I didn't talk to alot of kids. I know that I wasn't normal. but you know what, nobody ever called dss on my family because they thought that there was something wrong with the home because I wasn't "normal".

Maybe I'm taking this a little personally because my 2nd was a lot like Anthony. when he was 5, he would get extremely violent and angry about the littlest things. Before that, everyone would tell me that it was just a phase... that he'll out grow it. You know what, he didn't . Unfortunately, I didn't have the resources to do some of the things that Vampy is doing for his kids. He's 8 now... and he's better, but he's better because of 3 years of working with him. Of teaching him how to control his temper, of teaching him to stop and think before he acts.

And ya, I've run into people who thought like you. "It's not normal for a child of that age to have a temper like that".... One of them that really sticks out in my mind was a clerk at a store. Joe started having a fit, hubby brought him outside so that he wouldn't break anything, put him in a body lock just like our pediatrician told us to, and that ever so lovely clerk has the gall to tell me that she was going to call security because what hubby was doing was "child abuse".

whoopie. You're a manatory reporter. So what. 1.What ever information you have is 2nd hand. 2. It wouldn't make a lick of difference if you reported or not because he doesn't have custody of the younger 3 and Anthony is out of juristiction. But then again... you don't believe that he even has any children... so what would you report?

HAHA! :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla GODS DAMN THATS MY GIRL! HAHA :rollingla :rollingla :rollingla

[Vampy]

-That the child, around 5yrs of age, was allowed to board a flight out of the country with no parent or legal guardian stated (Which, last time I checked, was a legal impossibility. Minors cannot fly IN the States without a parent or legal guardian, I believe. Not a clue for out of the *country*, but I have the feeling it's very, very strict.)


Oh yea i meant to address this earlier before all hell broke lose, if you check and i am sure you will there are "agents" that will fly with children if there is only one parent seeing them off that cannot accompany the child on a flight due to other responsibilities. Ever thought of that? bet not! cause yall are too damn critical... i love how all this can come of one post, and no one ever stop to ask me to check if i was a little bit upset to remember all the exact details, but then again, no body is perfect unless they live in yalls little "Detergent Commercial" world

[mama reflecting]

Oh yea i meant to address this earlier before all hell broke lose, if you check and i am sure you will there are "agents" that will fly with children if there is only one parent seeing them off that cannot accompany the child on a flight due to other responsibilities. Ever thought of that? bet not! cause yall are too damn critical... i love how all this can come of one post, and no one ever stop to ask me to check if i was a little bit upset to remember all the exact details, but then again, no body is perfect unless they live in yalls little "Detergent Commercial" world

Er... honey... in case you bothered to read the rest of my post, I was kind of trying to support you...

And upon your reminder, I do remember that. I was not aware that it was available on overseas flights. In fact, I'd forgotton that it was available at all. I've never flown as a small child, nor has my son ever flown by himself. (Come to think of it, I think he's only ever had one flight in his life, and that was when he was a baby... God, what a mess that was. Nobody told me about the pressure thing.)

Please calm down. I wasn't attacking you. There were concerning things in what you posted- I addressed them, with support to your position. I didn't attack you. It's o-k-a-y.

[Vampy]

-That the father reportedly has loaded weapons near the very young children, who as afformentioned, would have no true understanding of the concept of severe injury or death. (Gun collecting is fine, as long as the weapons aren't loaded or shown as toys, yes?)


Ah... but i never showed them around as toys, now did i? nope, sure didn't

Screaming at a child or threatening them, or encouraging violence on their part, is probably not a good way to deal with this situation.

as i have said before i realize that i should not have acted in such a manner

Be careful with the "boot camp" thing... a lot of them can actually be very damaging for children. He needs to know that you love him, and that you've sent him there because you want him to be safe and happy, not because you want to get rid of him.

It isn't a BOOT CAMP boot camp, it is like it, he will continue his education there and then I am going to move there when I get my affairs settled down here, then the boys will follow and the end of the school year, that is how it is going to work out.

Out of curiosity, is it more of a strict boarding school than a militaristic "camp"? For a child who has a confusing home life, the structure of a boarding school can be very therapudic. He just needs to know that you love him. Mushy as that sounds, it's the most important part.

Exactly, I couldn't think of what it was in my first post, if you will excuse me I had a major headache

If you are feeling overwhelmed, and aren't sure how to proceed, I do think it's very responsible of you to try to get yourself some alone time to sort it all out. It's very responsible to put them in a place where they will be safe and loved. That isn't the complete solution, but it is a good temporary solution.

That is why i sent him over there, there is alot of family that can show him love until i get there to help out



I don't know anything much more about you. I certainly don't know you personally. I think you are trying to do the best you can for your children. In the future, though, it might be best to cool off before posting to an online community (especially one that, in general, abhors violence and anger).

Yea I guess that was my second mistake eh?

If you'd like to PM me or e-mail me, feel free to do so. I can be a vent, if you'd like. I'll give you the best advice I know of. As a single father, it must be overwhelmingly frustrating for you. And if your views on sexuality are more traditional, I can completely understand why you reacted so strongly.

I will keep that in mind thanks!

[Vampy]

Er... honey... in case you bothered to read the rest of my post, I was kind of trying to support you...

And upon your reminder, I do remember that. I was not aware that it was available on overseas flights. In fact, I'd forgotton that it was available at all. I've never flown as a small child, nor has my son ever flown by himself. (Come to think of it, I think he's only ever had one flight in his life, and that was when he was a baby... God, what a mess that was. Nobody told me about the pressure thing.)

Please calm down. I wasn't attacking you. There were concerning things in what you posted- I addressed them, with support to your position. I didn't attack you. It's o-k-a-y.
I know I know... I was getting there.. lol... sorry if I seemed like an ass... it was for the rest of the "haters" :smash: :smash: JUDGEMENTAL! :smash: :smash: lmao

[Vampy]

okay I am off to work... Mama I will reply ASAP!

[~~Vampy's~~Boo~~]

empty some messages can't reply to ur pm

[mama reflecting]

Ah... but i never showed them around as toys, now did i? nope, sure didn't

Didn't know that... good to know!

as i have said before i realize that i should not have acted in such a manner

Yup, just gotta reinforce it. :rubhead:

It isn't a BOOT CAMP boot camp, it is like it, he will continue his education there and then I am going to move there when I get my affairs settled down here, then the boys will follow and the end of the school year, that is how it is going to work out.
...
Exactly, I couldn't think of what it was in my first post, if you will excuse me I had a major headache
...
That is why i sent him over there, there is alot of family that can show him love until i get there to help out

That's also vastly good to know. Are you origionally from Italy? My lover was born there... I really hope to visit one day. One of my dreams is to live in Europe.

Yea I guess that was my second mistake eh?

Yeah, pagan-minded folks in general tend to be very emotionally-centered**. And when we hear about scary situations with kids involved, well, the mom in us all just explodes like a pissed-off lioness.

I will keep that in mind thanks!

Super. :) I tried PMing you, but it had some weird message about quotas. Is your box full?

**: Okay guys. No, I'm not "dissing" you or anything. Think about it. Look to your e-left. Look to your e-right. Look all around at your pagan friends. Most of us are more emotionally centered than the general populace. And since a good deal of us relate to the celts, the norse, the elements, and the pure unbridled energy of "magic" and spirituality... a lot of us tend to react quickly. It's okay. That's the nature of life. We aren't usually as serene as our ideal meditative place. :fpeace:

[Valkie]

Well... I'd say the most concerning things mentioned were these:

-That the father was drunk, or drank himself silly afterword (as evidenced by Valkie). Yes, drank silly afterword. The children were cared for and it is not abnormal for someone who is under a lot of pressure to drink themselves stupid occationally.
-That the child, around 5yrs of age, was allowed to (and indeed encouraged to) attack his father with a lethal weapon. (Children of this age group do not fully understand the concept of severe physical injury and death.) agreed. and Vampy has also admitted that he handled this point badly
-That the child, around 5yrs of age, was allowed to board a flight out of the country with no parent or legal guardian stated (Which, last time I checked, was a legal impossibility. Minors cannot fly IN the States without a parent or legal guardian, I believe. Not a clue for out of the *country*, but I have the feeling it's very, very strict.)Probably true. and since it is legally impossible, there would have had to been an adult with him.

-That the father is combating seperation/abandonment issues by sending one child out of the country (weeks or months prior to the father's move), and sending the other children to his sister's house. (I would be curious to know if this has been discussed with a child welfare counsilor or child psychologist. yes... it is tearing him apart. yes, there is additional imput from professionals
-That the father reportedly has loaded weapons near the very young children, who as afformentioned, would have no true understanding of the concept of severe injury or death. (Gun collecting is fine, as long as the weapons aren't loaded or shown as toys, yes?)
as mentioned in the gun control thread a few months back, all guns are locked with the legal safeties in place.

Vampy, it is completely normal for small children to experiment; ie explore eachother's bodies and senses. Just as children love stimulation from music or colours, and like to explore it by banging on pots or finger painting, they also love touch and kisses... and if mommy or daddy touch and kiss them, they don't understand why they shouldn't do it to others. Also, while adults know that siblings probably shouldn't touch eachother's most sensitive places, small children do not know that it is "wrong", and merely like the way it feels. It has no sexual context for them. understood. this is also another discussion that we've had on the board. But this isn't the first time that it has happened. Vampy has sat down with the boys, seperately (the other is 3) and explained to them the whole private parts thing, what is acceptable behavior between brothers. Anthony knew what he was doing was not acceptable. He knew that it was something that he shouldn't be doing with his younger brother. That's where a majority of the 'getting upset' came from. It wasn't that they were doing that, it was the disobedience over something that he thought he had made it very clear that they shouldn't be doing.


Screaming at a child or threatening them, or encouraging violence on their part, is probably not a good way to deal with this situation. Anger, confusion, or frustration is a natural reaction on your part. A good way to deal with this is to seperate the children, tell the child that "Daddy is very angry with you right now. You are going to stay here in your room, and when I am ready"(or "When I think you're ready" if you feel that admitting a weakness is bad for your authority figure)" I will come back and talk with you about this." Then shut the door, and go cool off. Just shut the door. Leave the area. Junior will be fine. Meditate, pace, call a friend, scream into a pillow, punch a couch, go out and kick a tree. Anything but teach the child that it's okay to attack others when they're upset. Was done. the attack came several days later.



Okay. I'm sure you get the point. Enough about that, right? Mistakes happen.

That all aside, I think that counselling *together* would be wonderful for you and your son. One on one with a psychologist is a great way to learn about yourself, or for your son to express what his feeliings and views on the situation are. (Yes, little kids have feelings and views, even if "Daddy's mean and hates me, so I want to show him that I don't need him.") However, as I'm sure the psych would tell you, it's also really really important to have a therapy session together every once in a while. That way junior can tell you himself that he hates you. This gives you the oppourtunity to ask why. He can tell you why (Ie: "You don't want me."). This is a golden chance to tell and show him just how much you *do* love and want him.

Always reinforce how much you do love and want him. This is sooooo very important. He's angry because he doesn't understand the situation, and as a young child, he really can't. You have to explain it to him in a way he can understand, and let him tell you what really is upsetting him the most. If you want a good relationship with him, you must compromise. all good advice... and all things that he is trying to setup/do.

[Semele]

as mentioned in the gun control thread a few months back, all guns are locked with the legal safeties in place.

Uh, no. He claims to keep the loaded gun under the pillow. There was even a post about the gun going off.

In fact, if you do a search, almost every post by Vampy is a bunch of BS stating about how he is abusing and/or neglecting his children as outlined by the law. As Erubus stated there is a such thing as obligated reporting and that is what we will do with the very next admission of such activity on this forum. We have done it before and will do it again. What kind of monsters would we be if we allow you to come on here and tell us about this crap and not try to intervene?

I am closing this thread. those who wish to support Vampy, please feel free to do so in private message.

[Xentor]

In fact, if you do a search, almost every post by Vampy is a bunch of BS stating about how he is abusing and/or neglecting his children as outlined by the law.

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