mol
February 9th, 2001, 10:46 PM
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-- Posted by Rosabelle on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
merry meet!
i started researching about wicca 4-5 months ago and since then i have had doubts on whether the pagan religion is worth my time. i already have a busy schedule but i would like to make time for my religion but i started thinking, "is it really worth it?"
since then i have decided that it IS worth is and i will MAKE time for me to practise my religion but i was wondering, is it normal to have doubts? do lots of beginners get doubts? or am i unique :) hehe? (well i know i am ;))
thanks for reading my message and please reply
Loads of Pagan Love
Rosabelle
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Merry Meet and welcome to Paganism.
Is it normal to have doubts? Absolutely. Dont worry about the doubts because as you dig deeper inside of your spiritual self your doubts will disappear.
Do you have time? Well, I encourage you to make time because you will find Wicca a very self-satisifying Path. But, that is up to you. The light only turns on when you flip the switch. If you have any questions at all dont hesistate to ask. We will get more information for new Pagans on this site soon, but the best way to learn is to learn from others and ask questions.
I welcome you to this community and to your Path.
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-- Posted by semele on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Regarding making time...I really don't think you have to make time to live a certain way. For me being pagan is a lot more than what I believe and what I have learned about rituals and the history of my religion. It is who I am and everything I do. Do I go around telling everyone I meet that I am a witch?? Yikes no !!! I am a nurse in a catholic hospital. But I do encorporate the philosophy into everything I do. Holding the hands of my patients when they are hurting both physicaly and spiritualy is something that they benefit from, but so do I...three fold.
Can i ramble or what!?!?! Anyway my point is you don't have to work hard to be wiccan...or anything else for that matter. There is tons of stuff to study and learn about any religion but in all of them, even Christianity, there is a basic mindset and guideline....do good and you recieve good in return. The golden rule, rule of three, ect, ect...same principal idea.
Semele
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-- Posted by Polaris on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Hi! is that you ros? well, I had doubts too, but i have finally decided to stick with it. i suppose it's normal to have doubts, as everyone has doubts about everything, like getting married, etc. it is hard to find time, but if you do good things and work hard you are rewarded.
polaris:)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Without doubt, life would be a series of simple decisions... how boring life would be!
~ew
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I'm an Elder Priestess, and sometimes I still have doubts. I think doubts are a normal part of life. They're what make us think about what we're doing and why we're doing it. You know ... Why am I on this path? How do I know it's the right one and that I've nto been wasting my time the last 12 years? ... Why am I even doing this, again? ... You know, stuff like that. You ask questions, the Gods provide answers. Usually, they're not the ones we want, but they're the ones we need.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Just be thankful that you are following a Path that not only accepts 'doubt' but in some fashions...encourages it!! Why do you think Pagans are so well read?? We want to KNOW!
Blessings!
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Have you ever wondered about that, Mol? I mean, seems like most Pagans have degrees, or have some type of College education, seem to have higher IQs, etc and so forth. What do you think?
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 10:29 am on Feb. 1, 2001
Have you ever wondered about that, Mol? I mean, seems like most Pagans have degrees, or have some type of College education, seem to have higher IQs, etc and so forth. What do you think?
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Well, I think it is because we dont have someone telling us what to believe. We must search it out. We have to study and read and work on different aspects of our spirituality. I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc. We dont have that luxury (I say luxury, but I dont really consider it that...) so let me change it. We dont have that type of hinderance.
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I don't know how common it is elsewhere ... But around here ... I've seen several Pagan groups that will "hand-hold" their Students and "lead" them step-by-step through things. Somehow, that bothers me.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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elsewhere ... But around here ... I've seen several Pagan groups that will "hand-hold" their Students and "lead" them step-by-step through things. Somehow, that bothers me.
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Around here as in...?
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Oh. heh. ;-)
Lexington, Kentucky.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 1:16 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Oh. heh. ;-)
Lexington, Kentucky.
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Ahh, Kentucky. Well, I am down in Tulsa. I wish I could say that i have the same problem here (I say this because it seems that Paganism in general is drawn in.) My wife and I just cant seem to meet any others here. But, maybe its because we have not really put any effort into it.
We have been solitary for the longest time, but now we feel the need to venture out. It is clear to me that we are not true solitaries.
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common? It's very hard to "get out and mingle" with other Pagans here. ... We're trying to fix that. I'm helping form a new group, and we officially "kick off" Sunday ~ should be interesting. We're just helping host a place where anybody can come study, drum, dance, participate in ritual, etc and so forth, in a peaceful, inviting setting. This area desperately needs such a place, and even if it draws out a handful of people, then I say we've been completely successful.
(aren't I just a chatterbox this morning?!)
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 1:25 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common? It's very hard to "get out and mingle" with other Pagans here. ... We're trying to fix that. I'm helping form a new group, and we officially "kick off" Sunday ~ should be interesting. We're just helping host a place where anybody can come study, drum, dance, participate in ritual, etc and so forth, in a peaceful, inviting setting. This area desperately needs such a place, and even if it draws out a handful of people, then I say we've been completely successful.
(aren't I just a chatterbox this morning?!)
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Well, I wish you good luck because it sounds like a very much needed and rewarding venture.
And on the chatterbox: I am just glad I am not the only one up. I am, of course, working on the site.
:)
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
That's why we chose Imbolc to get started with. Well, actually, we didn't choose any time in particular; this sorta fell in our laps ... Sometimes Goddess leads us and we don't realize ... ;-)
Well, you're getting ready to be up alone, because this HPs is hitting the hay! I gotta lot of things to accomplish this weekend, and only Saturday to do them! OY!!
Blessings!
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Well, you're getting ready to be up alone, because this HPs is hitting the hay! I gotta lot of things to accomplish this weekend, and only Saturday to do them! OY!!
Blessings!
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Alas, this is my burden. :) Talk to you soon!
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 2:25 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common?
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It is common here in WV.
Finding a coven or circle which is not insular seems to be very hard. We have a few groups and Unitarian churches in our area where Pagans can meet and celebrate, learn and just smooze.
It is only a matter of time before Pagans meet more openly in our area, gladly accpeting like minded people into their fold.
~ew
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-- Posted by Jazzmine on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I think having doubts is quite normal. This path takes a lot of time, and so does your everyday life. I think that since I have started down this path I have read more books than I have in the other 30 years of my life. But I am learning a lot and by a lot of different people with different points of view. I am borrowing the points from each author that I believe in to make it more real for me. This is why I am on this path. You can make your rituals and magick work for your style and yours alone. And if its right for you its the right path. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!! No one telling you how to believe or what to believe.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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this path. You can make your rituals and magick work for your style and yours alone. And if its right for you its the right path. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!! No one telling you how to believe or what to believe.
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Exactly, and I made this point earlier...there are no ringleaders. Only friends. You make your Path and you Live it. Welcome to the community.
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-- Posted by Sunsong on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Well, I think it is because we dont have someone telling us what to believe. We must search it out. We have to study and read and work on different aspects of our spirituality. I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc. We dont have that luxury (I say luxury, but I dont really consider it that...) so let me change it. We dont have that type of hinderance.
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And a big amen, brother...preach it. Now, this is coming from a christian here. what mol just said is absolutely correct and it is the reason i dont attend church. my church is in my living room with my family.
done and done.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc.
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I am fishing more for thoughts than anything else, but...
Do some not consider the High Priestess as a ringleader?
And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?
~ew
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Granted. Now, let me ask...do you have to have someone telling you the Wiccan Rede over and over and over again...for you to follow it? Actually, for Me...I use the Wiccan Rede as ONE of My rules for life. But, that is exactly it...they are My rules. And we might not folow the same ones...
Hence..no ringmaster.
I see the HP as a leader of ceremonies and rituals (w/ benefits :biggrin: ).
Blessings...hope youve had a good trip! Good to see you here..
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Ah, but does everyone feel that way? Many traditions follow said traditions word for word. They use spells created by those before them, and often the same rituals. You can say they are merely there to guide us, but religions say the same of their leaders as well.
Many Wiccans will tell you the Rede is "law." I wonder if they stop to think before they spout, as you have (stopped to think that is)?
And, to answer your question, yes, "harm none" is in my face everywhere, kind of like the Gideons bible here in the hotel room nightstand...
I see the Law of Three in the same way. Kinda like telling a kid Santa will bring them coal if they are bad, or telling Christian children they will go to "Hell."
Some say "guidance," others say "control" ...
~ew
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:43 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:50 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Oh, and it is good to be back, thanks!
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:49 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
This computer is giving me slack, notice all the edits? My posts are coming through blank for some reason...
...I think they are all fixed now :biggrin:
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
""Do some not consider the High Priestess as a ringleader?""
Hhhmmm .... I'm an Elder HPs, but I'm certainly not a "ringleader". In our Trad, the HPs is considered more of a "mother figure" than anything else.
""And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?""
Now, I suppose if you're Wiccan that's true. But I'm not. Never have been. :biggrin:
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-- Posted by Kaylara on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Doubts? Everyone, even experienced religious people, have doubts about their path. I once read an article on this called the "Dark Night of the Soul"
There are times when we all are unsure of where the path we have chosen is leading, or when it feels like we are alone in the universe and powerless. I don't know if this confusion you have is related at all to the dark night of the soul, but it maybe good for you to research it just in case. :)
Good Luck and Blessed Be!
Kaylara
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Now, I suppose if you're Wiccan that's true. But I'm not. Never have been. :biggrin:
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I use the rede as an example, because many (even non Wiccans like yourself) at least know of it, and can relate to my point.
Though you are not Wiccan, I am 'almost' sure you follow a traditional code of conduct...
I have found few, if any, traditions which do NOT adhere to an underlying code set forth by those before them.
~ew
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Hhhmmm .... "When faced with two evils, choose the lesser."
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 12:59 pm on Feb. 8, 2001
Hhhmmm .... "When faced with two evils, choose the lesser."
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He He Heh... that was a cop out... :biggrin:
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Ok...let me put it another way. (Certainly I will get flamed.) A LOT of other religions, faiths, etc. seem to REQUIRE a ringleader. A Pagan Path requires no such ringleader. I am as secure in my Path as a semi-solitary as Mairwen is...or as You are...
Maybe that made my point just a little bit clearer.
Oh, one more thing. I do note the fact that other people following Paths which seem to require a ringleader could be just as secure being solitary as well. But, it is frowned upon.
Blessings.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
hmmm, what is the point of my posts?
I am just trying to show the underlying (not Divine) "similarity" of ALL religion, before someone gets the wrong idea...
I think some must have a ringleader, while others need someone to tell them who, what, when and where.
It is arogant for me to think everyone can find their path the same way I do. So, I can not say following the "leader" is wrong, or inappropriate...
...and I hope others can see the intent of my view.
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from eaglewolf on 12:42 pm on Feb. 8, 2001
It is arogant for me to think everyone can find their path the same way I do. So, I can not say following the "leader" is wrong, or inappropriate...
...and I hope others can see the intent of my view.
~ew
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I agree and see your point...and digress..
:)
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-- Posted by Kaylara on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
YAY! I found the article I was talking about "the dark night of the soul" And it is from the Riders of the Crystal Winds BOS.
So, here for your viewing pleasure I present the article:
The Dark Night of the Soul
Fra.: Apfelmann
"The Dark Night of the Soul" is the name given to that experience of
spiritual desolation that all students of the Occult pass through at
one time or another. It is sometimes characterized by feelings that
your occult studies or practices are not taken you anywhere, that
the initial success that one is sometimes granted after a few months
of occult working, has suddenly dried up. There comes a desire to
give up on everything, to abandon exercises and meditation, as
nothing seems to be working. St.John of the Cross. a christian
mystic, said of this experience, that it;
"...puts the sensory spiritual appetites to sleep, deadens them,
and deprives them of the ability to find pleasure in anything.
It binds the imagination, and impedes it from doing any good
discursive work. It makes the memory cease, the intellect become
dark and unable to understand anything, and hence it causes the
will to become arid and constrained, and all the faculties empty
and useless. And over this hangs a dense and burdensome cloud,
which afflicts the soul, and keeps it withdrawn from the good."
Though the beginner may view the onset of such an experience with
alarm (I know I did), the "Dark Night" is not something bad or
destructive. In one sense it may be seen as a trial, a test by which
the Gods examine our resolve to continue with occult work, and if
you are not completely whole-hearted about your magical studies, it
is during this period (at its beginning) that you will give up. The
Dark Night of the Soul should be welcomed, once recognized for
what it is (I have always received an innate "warning" just before
the onset of such a period), as a person might welcome an operation
that will secure health and well-being. St.John of the Cross embraced
the soul`s Dark Night as a Divine Appointment, calling it a period
of "sheer grace" and adding;
"O guiding Night,
O Night more lovely than Dawn,
O Night that has united the lover with his beloved
Transforming the Lover in her Beloved."
When entering the Dark Night one is overcome by a sense of spiritual
dryness and depression. The notion, in some quarters, that all such
experiences should be avoided, for a peaceful existence, shows up
the superficiality of so much of contemporary living. The Dark Night
is a way of bringing the Soul to stillness, so that deep psychic
transformation may take place. All distractions must be set aside,
and it is no good attempting to fight or channel the bursts of raw
energy that from time to time may course through your being. This
inner compulsion to set everything aside results in the outer
depression, when nothing seems to excite.
The only thing to do is obey your inner voice and become still,
waiting for the inner transformation, (which the "Dark Night"
heralds), to take place. You may not be aware for a very long time
of the results of that inner change, but when the desire to work
comes again and the depression lifts, the Dark Night has (for a
moment) passed. No one can help during this time, and in many cases
there is hardly anyone to turn for advice. One must disregard the
well-meaning advice of family and friends to "snap out of it" this
is no ordinary depression, but a deep spiritual experience which
only those who have passed through themselves (in other words to a
magical retreat) but for many, as the routines of everyday life
prohibits this, all you can do is cultivate an inner solitude, a
stillness and silence of heart, and wait, (like a chrysalis waits
for the inner changes that will result in a butterfly) for the
Transformation to work itself out. There are many such "Dark Nights"
that the occult seeker must pass through during the mysterious
process of mitigation. They are all trials but experience teaches
one to cope more efficiently.
With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann *
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
He He Heh... that was a cop out... :biggrin:
[/quote]
No, it wasn't.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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No, it wasn't.
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Okay, okay, my tail is properly tucked... :)
You're no fun ... *sulking with a pouted lip*
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
The actual Law I quoted is:
A Gwyddon seeks to harm no living thing, but when faced with two evils, he will seek the lesser.
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-- Posted by Rosabelle on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
merry meet!
i started researching about wicca 4-5 months ago and since then i have had doubts on whether the pagan religion is worth my time. i already have a busy schedule but i would like to make time for my religion but i started thinking, "is it really worth it?"
since then i have decided that it IS worth is and i will MAKE time for me to practise my religion but i was wondering, is it normal to have doubts? do lots of beginners get doubts? or am i unique :) hehe? (well i know i am ;))
thanks for reading my message and please reply
Loads of Pagan Love
Rosabelle
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Merry Meet and welcome to Paganism.
Is it normal to have doubts? Absolutely. Dont worry about the doubts because as you dig deeper inside of your spiritual self your doubts will disappear.
Do you have time? Well, I encourage you to make time because you will find Wicca a very self-satisifying Path. But, that is up to you. The light only turns on when you flip the switch. If you have any questions at all dont hesistate to ask. We will get more information for new Pagans on this site soon, but the best way to learn is to learn from others and ask questions.
I welcome you to this community and to your Path.
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-- Posted by semele on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Regarding making time...I really don't think you have to make time to live a certain way. For me being pagan is a lot more than what I believe and what I have learned about rituals and the history of my religion. It is who I am and everything I do. Do I go around telling everyone I meet that I am a witch?? Yikes no !!! I am a nurse in a catholic hospital. But I do encorporate the philosophy into everything I do. Holding the hands of my patients when they are hurting both physicaly and spiritualy is something that they benefit from, but so do I...three fold.
Can i ramble or what!?!?! Anyway my point is you don't have to work hard to be wiccan...or anything else for that matter. There is tons of stuff to study and learn about any religion but in all of them, even Christianity, there is a basic mindset and guideline....do good and you recieve good in return. The golden rule, rule of three, ect, ect...same principal idea.
Semele
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-- Posted by Polaris on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Hi! is that you ros? well, I had doubts too, but i have finally decided to stick with it. i suppose it's normal to have doubts, as everyone has doubts about everything, like getting married, etc. it is hard to find time, but if you do good things and work hard you are rewarded.
polaris:)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Without doubt, life would be a series of simple decisions... how boring life would be!
~ew
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I'm an Elder Priestess, and sometimes I still have doubts. I think doubts are a normal part of life. They're what make us think about what we're doing and why we're doing it. You know ... Why am I on this path? How do I know it's the right one and that I've nto been wasting my time the last 12 years? ... Why am I even doing this, again? ... You know, stuff like that. You ask questions, the Gods provide answers. Usually, they're not the ones we want, but they're the ones we need.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Just be thankful that you are following a Path that not only accepts 'doubt' but in some fashions...encourages it!! Why do you think Pagans are so well read?? We want to KNOW!
Blessings!
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Have you ever wondered about that, Mol? I mean, seems like most Pagans have degrees, or have some type of College education, seem to have higher IQs, etc and so forth. What do you think?
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 10:29 am on Feb. 1, 2001
Have you ever wondered about that, Mol? I mean, seems like most Pagans have degrees, or have some type of College education, seem to have higher IQs, etc and so forth. What do you think?
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Well, I think it is because we dont have someone telling us what to believe. We must search it out. We have to study and read and work on different aspects of our spirituality. I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc. We dont have that luxury (I say luxury, but I dont really consider it that...) so let me change it. We dont have that type of hinderance.
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I don't know how common it is elsewhere ... But around here ... I've seen several Pagan groups that will "hand-hold" their Students and "lead" them step-by-step through things. Somehow, that bothers me.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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elsewhere ... But around here ... I've seen several Pagan groups that will "hand-hold" their Students and "lead" them step-by-step through things. Somehow, that bothers me.
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Around here as in...?
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Oh. heh. ;-)
Lexington, Kentucky.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 1:16 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Oh. heh. ;-)
Lexington, Kentucky.
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Ahh, Kentucky. Well, I am down in Tulsa. I wish I could say that i have the same problem here (I say this because it seems that Paganism in general is drawn in.) My wife and I just cant seem to meet any others here. But, maybe its because we have not really put any effort into it.
We have been solitary for the longest time, but now we feel the need to venture out. It is clear to me that we are not true solitaries.
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common? It's very hard to "get out and mingle" with other Pagans here. ... We're trying to fix that. I'm helping form a new group, and we officially "kick off" Sunday ~ should be interesting. We're just helping host a place where anybody can come study, drum, dance, participate in ritual, etc and so forth, in a peaceful, inviting setting. This area desperately needs such a place, and even if it draws out a handful of people, then I say we've been completely successful.
(aren't I just a chatterbox this morning?!)
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 1:25 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common? It's very hard to "get out and mingle" with other Pagans here. ... We're trying to fix that. I'm helping form a new group, and we officially "kick off" Sunday ~ should be interesting. We're just helping host a place where anybody can come study, drum, dance, participate in ritual, etc and so forth, in a peaceful, inviting setting. This area desperately needs such a place, and even if it draws out a handful of people, then I say we've been completely successful.
(aren't I just a chatterbox this morning?!)
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Well, I wish you good luck because it sounds like a very much needed and rewarding venture.
And on the chatterbox: I am just glad I am not the only one up. I am, of course, working on the site.
:)
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
That's why we chose Imbolc to get started with. Well, actually, we didn't choose any time in particular; this sorta fell in our laps ... Sometimes Goddess leads us and we don't realize ... ;-)
Well, you're getting ready to be up alone, because this HPs is hitting the hay! I gotta lot of things to accomplish this weekend, and only Saturday to do them! OY!!
Blessings!
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Well, you're getting ready to be up alone, because this HPs is hitting the hay! I gotta lot of things to accomplish this weekend, and only Saturday to do them! OY!!
Blessings!
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Alas, this is my burden. :) Talk to you soon!
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 2:25 am on Feb. 3, 2001
Most people are Solitary, or the groups are completely insular here, as well. Is this common?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is common here in WV.
Finding a coven or circle which is not insular seems to be very hard. We have a few groups and Unitarian churches in our area where Pagans can meet and celebrate, learn and just smooze.
It is only a matter of time before Pagans meet more openly in our area, gladly accpeting like minded people into their fold.
~ew
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-- Posted by Jazzmine on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
I think having doubts is quite normal. This path takes a lot of time, and so does your everyday life. I think that since I have started down this path I have read more books than I have in the other 30 years of my life. But I am learning a lot and by a lot of different people with different points of view. I am borrowing the points from each author that I believe in to make it more real for me. This is why I am on this path. You can make your rituals and magick work for your style and yours alone. And if its right for you its the right path. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!! No one telling you how to believe or what to believe.
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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this path. You can make your rituals and magick work for your style and yours alone. And if its right for you its the right path. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!! No one telling you how to believe or what to believe.
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Exactly, and I made this point earlier...there are no ringleaders. Only friends. You make your Path and you Live it. Welcome to the community.
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-- Posted by Sunsong on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Well, I think it is because we dont have someone telling us what to believe. We must search it out. We have to study and read and work on different aspects of our spirituality. I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc. We dont have that luxury (I say luxury, but I dont really consider it that...) so let me change it. We dont have that type of hinderance.
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And a big amen, brother...preach it. Now, this is coming from a christian here. what mol just said is absolutely correct and it is the reason i dont attend church. my church is in my living room with my family.
done and done.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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I see that a lot of other faiths tend to have a ringmaster that tells them when to do this, what not do, etc.
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I am fishing more for thoughts than anything else, but...
Do some not consider the High Priestess as a ringleader?
And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?
~ew
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Granted. Now, let me ask...do you have to have someone telling you the Wiccan Rede over and over and over again...for you to follow it? Actually, for Me...I use the Wiccan Rede as ONE of My rules for life. But, that is exactly it...they are My rules. And we might not folow the same ones...
Hence..no ringmaster.
I see the HP as a leader of ceremonies and rituals (w/ benefits :biggrin: ).
Blessings...hope youve had a good trip! Good to see you here..
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Ah, but does everyone feel that way? Many traditions follow said traditions word for word. They use spells created by those before them, and often the same rituals. You can say they are merely there to guide us, but religions say the same of their leaders as well.
Many Wiccans will tell you the Rede is "law." I wonder if they stop to think before they spout, as you have (stopped to think that is)?
And, to answer your question, yes, "harm none" is in my face everywhere, kind of like the Gideons bible here in the hotel room nightstand...
I see the Law of Three in the same way. Kinda like telling a kid Santa will bring them coal if they are bad, or telling Christian children they will go to "Hell."
Some say "guidance," others say "control" ...
~ew
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:43 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:50 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Oh, and it is good to be back, thanks!
(Edited by eaglewolf at 1:49 am on Feb. 8, 2001)
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
This computer is giving me slack, notice all the edits? My posts are coming through blank for some reason...
...I think they are all fixed now :biggrin:
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
""Do some not consider the High Priestess as a ringleader?""
Hhhmmm .... I'm an Elder HPs, but I'm certainly not a "ringleader". In our Trad, the HPs is considered more of a "mother figure" than anything else.
""And, isn't the purpose of the Wiccan Rede to tell others what not to do?""
Now, I suppose if you're Wiccan that's true. But I'm not. Never have been. :biggrin:
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-- Posted by Kaylara on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Doubts? Everyone, even experienced religious people, have doubts about their path. I once read an article on this called the "Dark Night of the Soul"
There are times when we all are unsure of where the path we have chosen is leading, or when it feels like we are alone in the universe and powerless. I don't know if this confusion you have is related at all to the dark night of the soul, but it maybe good for you to research it just in case. :)
Good Luck and Blessed Be!
Kaylara
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Now, I suppose if you're Wiccan that's true. But I'm not. Never have been. :biggrin:
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I use the rede as an example, because many (even non Wiccans like yourself) at least know of it, and can relate to my point.
Though you are not Wiccan, I am 'almost' sure you follow a traditional code of conduct...
I have found few, if any, traditions which do NOT adhere to an underlying code set forth by those before them.
~ew
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Hhhmmm .... "When faced with two evils, choose the lesser."
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from Mairwen on 12:59 pm on Feb. 8, 2001
Hhhmmm .... "When faced with two evils, choose the lesser."
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He He Heh... that was a cop out... :biggrin:
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
Ok...let me put it another way. (Certainly I will get flamed.) A LOT of other religions, faiths, etc. seem to REQUIRE a ringleader. A Pagan Path requires no such ringleader. I am as secure in my Path as a semi-solitary as Mairwen is...or as You are...
Maybe that made my point just a little bit clearer.
Oh, one more thing. I do note the fact that other people following Paths which seem to require a ringleader could be just as secure being solitary as well. But, it is frowned upon.
Blessings.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
hmmm, what is the point of my posts?
I am just trying to show the underlying (not Divine) "similarity" of ALL religion, before someone gets the wrong idea...
I think some must have a ringleader, while others need someone to tell them who, what, when and where.
It is arogant for me to think everyone can find their path the same way I do. So, I can not say following the "leader" is wrong, or inappropriate...
...and I hope others can see the intent of my view.
~ew
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-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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Quote: from eaglewolf on 12:42 pm on Feb. 8, 2001
It is arogant for me to think everyone can find their path the same way I do. So, I can not say following the "leader" is wrong, or inappropriate...
...and I hope others can see the intent of my view.
~ew
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I agree and see your point...and digress..
:)
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-- Posted by Kaylara on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
YAY! I found the article I was talking about "the dark night of the soul" And it is from the Riders of the Crystal Winds BOS.
So, here for your viewing pleasure I present the article:
The Dark Night of the Soul
Fra.: Apfelmann
"The Dark Night of the Soul" is the name given to that experience of
spiritual desolation that all students of the Occult pass through at
one time or another. It is sometimes characterized by feelings that
your occult studies or practices are not taken you anywhere, that
the initial success that one is sometimes granted after a few months
of occult working, has suddenly dried up. There comes a desire to
give up on everything, to abandon exercises and meditation, as
nothing seems to be working. St.John of the Cross. a christian
mystic, said of this experience, that it;
"...puts the sensory spiritual appetites to sleep, deadens them,
and deprives them of the ability to find pleasure in anything.
It binds the imagination, and impedes it from doing any good
discursive work. It makes the memory cease, the intellect become
dark and unable to understand anything, and hence it causes the
will to become arid and constrained, and all the faculties empty
and useless. And over this hangs a dense and burdensome cloud,
which afflicts the soul, and keeps it withdrawn from the good."
Though the beginner may view the onset of such an experience with
alarm (I know I did), the "Dark Night" is not something bad or
destructive. In one sense it may be seen as a trial, a test by which
the Gods examine our resolve to continue with occult work, and if
you are not completely whole-hearted about your magical studies, it
is during this period (at its beginning) that you will give up. The
Dark Night of the Soul should be welcomed, once recognized for
what it is (I have always received an innate "warning" just before
the onset of such a period), as a person might welcome an operation
that will secure health and well-being. St.John of the Cross embraced
the soul`s Dark Night as a Divine Appointment, calling it a period
of "sheer grace" and adding;
"O guiding Night,
O Night more lovely than Dawn,
O Night that has united the lover with his beloved
Transforming the Lover in her Beloved."
When entering the Dark Night one is overcome by a sense of spiritual
dryness and depression. The notion, in some quarters, that all such
experiences should be avoided, for a peaceful existence, shows up
the superficiality of so much of contemporary living. The Dark Night
is a way of bringing the Soul to stillness, so that deep psychic
transformation may take place. All distractions must be set aside,
and it is no good attempting to fight or channel the bursts of raw
energy that from time to time may course through your being. This
inner compulsion to set everything aside results in the outer
depression, when nothing seems to excite.
The only thing to do is obey your inner voice and become still,
waiting for the inner transformation, (which the "Dark Night"
heralds), to take place. You may not be aware for a very long time
of the results of that inner change, but when the desire to work
comes again and the depression lifts, the Dark Night has (for a
moment) passed. No one can help during this time, and in many cases
there is hardly anyone to turn for advice. One must disregard the
well-meaning advice of family and friends to "snap out of it" this
is no ordinary depression, but a deep spiritual experience which
only those who have passed through themselves (in other words to a
magical retreat) but for many, as the routines of everyday life
prohibits this, all you can do is cultivate an inner solitude, a
stillness and silence of heart, and wait, (like a chrysalis waits
for the inner changes that will result in a butterfly) for the
Transformation to work itself out. There are many such "Dark Nights"
that the occult seeker must pass through during the mysterious
process of mitigation. They are all trials but experience teaches
one to cope more efficiently.
With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann *
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
He He Heh... that was a cop out... :biggrin:
[/quote]
No, it wasn't.
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-- Posted by eaglewolf on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
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No, it wasn't.
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Okay, okay, my tail is properly tucked... :)
You're no fun ... *sulking with a pouted lip*
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-- Posted by Mairwen on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969
The actual Law I quoted is:
A Gwyddon seeks to harm no living thing, but when faced with two evils, he will seek the lesser.
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